Pregnancy, depression, and thoughts of suicide.

[Seeks]

I think I have done pretty well with my reactions and interactions with my now BPD fiancé. But I am struggling with how Or if I should approach my current dilemma.

She had a sudden mental break and broke up with me right before Christmas. We were apart NC for a couple of weeks, until we once again recycled.

After getting back together she opened up more to me about her sexual abuse when she was a child. Unfortunately she would do this on evenings when we were together and it was apparent that we were going to be sexually intimate. The thought of us having sex was bringing forth these memories. But at least she was finally talking about it. I saw that as a step in the right direction. 

We were intimate twice in January and in February she told me she is pregnant. We have been together for over 5 years, and were engaged for a short time a few years ago. On Valentine's Day we became engaged again. We have had engulfment issues in the past so I am concerned.

She mentioned that she wants to go get an ultrasound to check for deformities and to confirm the date of conception. In case she might be a little farther along than she thought.

My guy brain zeroed in on those two weeks we were apart and started wondering if she was with someone else.

Sexual frequency has been an issue with us. Typically we get together one to three times a month.

Shockingly she unblocked me on Facebook, and then proceeded to list us in a relationship which is almost unheard of. She has maintained her single status throughout our relationship, and to read her posts throughout the years... .I am practically non existent. Now she is playing me up at what a great guy I am and how we finally figured out we were in love etc etc.

I realize she is setting the stage to announce her pregnancy.

She is big on Facebook, I rarely pay attention to it other than I know it is important to her.

So publicly she is doing great and in love. Privately is a different story. She has associated me with her sexual trauma and PTSD. I creep her out the way I look at her. etc

Last week her mom got a hold of me. She was missing the .357 pistol she kept next to her bed. She was concerned that maybe my fiancées 16 year old son (same emotional issues) had taken it. She feared repercussions from her daughter and asked if I would look for it when I went out there later that day.

Of course this concerned me. The son, though emotional and going through puberty I didn't believe would harm himself. However, many parents have mistakenly made that assumption so I did take it seriously. I did not find the gun. I looked through his journal and saw nothing indicating he was considering suicide.

I did not say anything to my fiancé because at one time when she was on seizure meds she had thoughts of suicide and did not tell anyone until months later after she was off the meds.

So I turned my focus on her. Again I did not find the gun. But in her internet history I found a slew of disturbing searches:

Depression and Pregnancy

Extreme morning sickness all day for weeks

I do not love the man I'm engaged to

Hentai threesome sex (and other various cartoon porn videos)

Sex with dogs videos

Suicide hot line

Ways to commit suicide

The next day her mom found the gun in a dresser in another room. She thinks she put it there and forgot.

So now my dilemma. Should I tell fiancé I snooped her pc and and am worried about... .

About what? Her thoughts of Suicide, depression, beastiality... .?

Her preference to odd porn and masturbation while projecting onto me... .calling me a creep and a sexual deviate?

The humiliation would be too much for her and along with my snooping I'm not sure she would recover. Worse case, I fear pushing her further.

I do realize she is pregnant and hormonal and BPD and I really don't think she would harm herself. But again, there are people out there that have made that irreversible mistake.

I am walking a tight rope here.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Sluggo]

Seeks,

I am sorry you are going through all this.  I am not sure what to think of your situation yet to respond.  But I want to say that it must be really hard. 

Perhaps call a suicide prevention line and get their opinion. 

[Seeks]

Obviously I am feeling a lot of frustration and concern here. I gave a brief background on some of our issues for perspective.

To clarify;

The child is mine I am pretty certain about that.

Her sexual deviation is not something I could ever bring up. She is just starting to open up to me this past few months about her sexual abuse so I know it's on her mind. She endured six years of it and even though I try, I can't fathom what that would do to a person. I watched a movie last night that broached the topic of molestation and I couldn't even sit through it.

In all the years I have known her she has never once expressed the desire to, threatened, or talked about suicide. Other than that one time when she was on meds and I was told about it months after the fact.

Getting her into therapy would be the obvious choice, but my attempts in the past have failed. Only once in the guise of premarital counseling did I get her to attend one session.

Monitoring her without her knowledge is not something I wish to do either.

[sweetheart]

Hi Seeks, you are surrounded by some really delicate, tricky issues, that must be very tough. I'm not surprised you feel concerned and frustrated. Also you are both dealing with a new pregnancy, this can be a time of excitement and anxiety. Who do you have for support?

I have included at the end of my reply some safety information around helping increase your awareness and understanding on issues relating to suicide and suicidal ideation.

For me given what you have found in your gf's search history, it might not be wise to engage in sustained conversations around her sexual abuse. This subject as you have found is very uncomfortable and distressing for you. I suspect it might be triggering some very difficult memories and feelings indicated by her search history and could be leaving her feeling very vulnerable.

I would use her discussions around her history as a way of guiding her toward professional help around this issue. Gentle guiding and active listening, whilst at the same time bringing to stop any lengthy or in-depth conversations on the subject.

Perhaps using a Support,Empathy,Truth (SET) format, 'I want to support you as much as I can because I love and care about you. I really feel it might help if you spoke to a professional counsellor about this. How would you feel about that ?

SAFETY FIRST.

1.    

Take it seriously.

Myth: “The people who talk about it don't do it.” Studies have found that more than 75% of all completed suicides did things in the few weeks or months prior to their deaths to indicate to others that they were in deep despair. Anyone expressing suicidal feelings needs immediate attention.

Myth: “Anyone who tries to kill himself has got to be crazy.” Perhaps 10% of all suicidal people are psychotic or have delusional beliefs about reality. Most suicidal people suffer from the recognized mental illness of depression; but many depressed people adequately manage their daily affairs. The absence of “craziness” does not mean the absence of suicide risk.

“Those problems weren't enough to commit suicide over,” is often said by people who knew a completed suicide. You cannot assume that because you feel something is not worth being suicidal about, that the person you are with feels the same way. It is not how bad the problem is, but how badly it's hurting the person who has it.

2.    

Remember: suicidal behavior is a cry for help.

Myth: “If a someone is going to kill himself, nothing can stop him.” The fact that a person is still alive is sufficient proof that part of him wants to remain alive. The suicidal person is ambivalent - part of him wants to live and part of him wants not so much death as he wants the pain to end. It is the part that wants to live that tells another “I feel suicidal.” If a suicidal person turns to you it is likely that he believes that you are more caring, more informed about coping with misfortune, and more willing to protect his confidentiality. No matter how negative the manner and content of his talk, he is doing a positive thing and has a positive view of you.

3.    

Be willing to give and get help sooner rather than later.

Suicide prevention is not a last minute activity. All textbooks on depression say it should be reached as soon as possible. Unfortunately, suicidal people are afraid that trying to get help may bring them more pain: being told they are stupid, foolish, sinful, or manipulative; rejection; punishment; suspension from school or job; written records of their condition; or involuntary commitment. You need to do everything you can to reduce pain, rather than increase or prolong it. Constructively involving yourself on the side of life as early as possible will reduce the risk of suicide.

4.    

Listen.

Give the person every opportunity to unburden his troubles and ventilate his feelings. You don't need to say much and there are no magic words. If you are concerned, your voice and manner will show it. Give him relief from being alone with his pain; let him know you are glad he turned to you. Patience, sympathy, acceptance. Avoid arguments and advice giving.

5.    

ASK: “Are you having thoughts of suicide?”

Myth: “Talking about it may give someone the idea.” People already have the idea; suicide is constantly in the news media. If you ask a despairing person this question you are doing a good thing for them: you are showing him that you care about him, that you take him seriously, and that you are willing to let him share his pain with you. You are giving him further opportunity to discharge pent up and painful feelings. If the person is having thoughts of suicide, find out how far along his ideation has progressed.

6.    

If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave him alone.

If the person is acutely suicidal, do not leave them alone - drive the person to the nearest emergency department or other service facility. They may be hesitant - that is normal. The local suicide hotlines can advise you of the best facility.

If the situation is life threatening, or the person refuses to go for care, or you are unable to transport them, call 911.

Please do not use emergency medical services to teach anyone a lesson.

.

If the means are present, try to get rid of them. Detoxify the home.

7.    

Urge professional help.

If someone is acting suicidal or talking of suicide, it is vitally important to get them into professional care at the first signs. Like many disorders, early detection and treatment yields better outcomes. Persistence and patience may be needed to seek, engage and continue with as many options as possible. In any referral situation, let the person know you care and want to maintain contact.



Take good care of yourself.

[Grey Kitty]

  This stuff is tough.

First off, you got a LOT of good information about suicide from sweetheart. Please follow the advice as best you can.

I'd add one small thing--"Get professional help" can mean a variety of things. Dialing 911 for an ambulance is one way, but it is pretty scary too. If the situation is more than you feel comfortable with, but you really don't want to involve authorities, try a suicide hotline. Those people are also professionals and can either talk to you or to her if she is willing.


Regarding the disturbing things in her search history, I would suggest first that you don't talk to her about any of them, as it is snooping... .and also that other than the concern for suicide you really don't need to worry about them.

You already know that your engagement is a concern--she broke it off before Christmas. That she is feeling that way (at least some of the time) shouldn't be news to you.

And the sexual things--Let her have privacy about that, especially considering her history. Really, it isn't even a concern. Many healthy people find things arousing that they would never want to do, just want to think about, read about, or watch videos of. (Just like people read about and watch videos about climbing Mt. Everest, and 99% of those people have zero interest in actually doing that)

[Seeks]

Thank you for your detailed responses.

If she were to coomunicate to me that she was having thoughts of suicide I would act accordingly. But as of yet, I would have had no idea other than the information that I saw her searching for.

I realize she has negative emotions that can go to the extreme. I am hoping that her googling is as far as it goes. I am looking for an opportunity to talk with her about suicide by approaching it from a non accusatory angle. A story in the news or on the internet that I can use to open communication on the topic.

A bit of good news. Yesterday she told her mother that she is pregnant. Her mother is very religious and anti abortion. I think that telling her mom solidifies our decision to keep the baby and will put a stop to her threats of getting an abortion. And hopefully put her into a track of more positive thinking. I know her mom will give her positive reinforcement. 

As for the sexual concern. I am not a prude. I have looked at porn before and some of it was things I would not consider doing. I'm ok with her exploring her curiosity or compulsion or whatever it is. It's better than her seeking attention from other guys, which is something I have had to deal with in the past. But I don't want to see that behavior replace our already limited and struggling sex life. Problems in this area are common with PWBPD so I am trying to approach with as much understanding and compassion as I can muster.

Also, my fiancé invited me out for date night tonight! We are to go on a double date with her mom and her moms boyfriend. We have never done that and I am always the only one to plan dates. I am going to view this as a positive and a step in the right direction.

Staying vigilant.

[Grey Kitty]

Whew, that is a relief that suicide is sounding like a low risk today!

As for the sexual concern. I am not a prude. I have looked at porn before and some of it was things I would not consider doing. I'm ok with her exploring her curiosity or compulsion or whatever it is. It's better than her seeking attention from other guys, which is something I have had to deal with in the past. But I don't want to see that behavior replace our already limited and struggling sex life. Problems in this area are common with PWBPD so I am trying to approach with as much understanding and compassion as I can muster.

I think you are on the right track here. In this case, I would suggest that the stuff she is searching for most likely fits into one of two possible categories: "Not a problem at all" and "A minor symptom of another problem." And that second possibility is what you shared right here:

After getting back together she opened up more to me about her sexual abuse when she was a child. Unfortunately she would do this on evenings when we were together and it was apparent that we were going to be sexually intimate. The thought of us having sex was bringing forth these memories. But at least she was finally talking about it. I saw that as a step in the right direction.

I do not have personal experience around childhood sexual abuse, nor training as an expert, but I do know that the consequences are far-reaching, and that healing is a long path. I also know that helping partner heal from this can be VERY hard on you, the supporting partner too.

When you said "limited and struggling sex life", I hope you are prepared for this to be an issue for years, and ready to be compassionate and understanding with her through it.

• Pregnancy changes sex for women. With all the hormonal changes, sex drive can go up or down. Not to mention physical discomfort can become an issue.



• Childbirth, nursing, and having an infant around all the time and touching you all the time also changes sex drive, typically way way down for the first ~year.



• Add that to whatever she is dealing with to recover from childhood sexual abuse. One symptom of such abuse that is being overly sexual/promiscuous, in ways that would be harmful to herself and her relationships. Shutting down and being non-sexual is also a symptom. Some people will go through both without stopping at a happy middle ground inbetween.

My only suggestion for you is to be aware that she's got a lot going on... .and that your role is to be a safe partner for her in this area. Make your actions and words clearly show that she has agency over her own body, and that you only want the sex that she is willing to offer you, without any force, coercion, or guilt on her part. It can be a fine line to tread with this, while also reassuring her that she is desired and desirable. (Especially as her body changes with pregnancy and childbirth.)

[Seeks]

Yes, a weight seems to be lifted off her shoulders now that she has told her mom. Bearing this secret and the complexities of the situation I think was overwhelming. Self managing stress has always been an issue for her.

Our day and our double date went well yesterday. Afterwords we convened at her moms house and much to the chargrin of her moms boyfriend who was visiting from out of town she decided she was going to spend the night with them rather than come home to my house and stay with me. It has now been six months since she has been to my house (we live 50 miles apart but I live 2 blocks from her moms). I feel like it is avoidance on her part. To be alone with me at my place equates to sexual expectations on my part. Reasoning with this mindset has proved ineffectual. 

I have been pretty good at being understanding in this area. But I am human with my own set of needs and desires. I realize it is going to get worse before it gets better. If it gets better. I have read many testimonies here from men who's sexual intimacy shriveled or died once they got married or had children.

I have had children from a previous marriage, so I have been through that phase a few times and know what I am in for.

But doing it with a PWBPD is a whole different ballgame. One that doesn't seem to include roses and rainbows.

Right now my main concern is doing what I can with support to help her out of her depression.

And at the same time address my codependency issues.

Let's hope for sunny days ahead.

[Euler2718]

"I do not love the man I'm engaged to"

... .sir, that is a heartbreaking google search. If you want the silver lining, it probably shifts, and this was the way she feels only sometimes.

... .I normally lived in a way where I would just sweep things like this under the rug, anyway... .I feel for you.

[Grey Kitty]

Sounds like you are doing all the right things, especially working on your own codependency issues.

I'm glad to hear that the stress level has dropped too. I'm hoping for the best for you.

This is one area I want to caution you about... .

I am human with my own set of needs and desires. I realize it is going to get worse before it gets better. If it gets better. I have read many testimonies here from men who's sexual intimacy shriveled or died once they got married or had children.

Unless you are holding off sex until after marriage (Doesn't sound like it!), I'd pretty much guarantee that there won't be sudden, dramatic and permanent uptick in that area upon getting married. Might not fall off, but who knows. Then again, it sounds like it already did.

BPD issues will likely include that, along with whatever else... .and if you work the lessons and learn the tools, you can put some into remission, protect yourself from others, but will be living with some most likely for the length of your relationship.

Issues around childhood sexual abuse will also take time, assuming she is getting good support and working on it. This is likely to interfere for a while.

... .anyhow... .be realistic about your expectations regarding sex with her. And be realistic about how this will work for you. If the two of you aren't sexually compatible, this is the kind of thing that can turn to poison and destroy a relationship... .even if both partners are emotionally healthy. Only you know how important it is to you.

[Seeks]

Tim: yes her moods do shift dramatically. At the time she searched that she didn't love me. Generally I think she cares for me a great deal and loves me as much as she is capable.

Grey: yes we have been together for over five years and what I was trying to say is I realize sex will get worse or become near nonexistent if we get married.

There was a setback tonight, or maybe I should say a clarification in my understanding of what's happening.

She went home today and later texted me that she was not feeling well, had hardly eaten anything and asked if I could come out and help with dinner. She has been having all day bouts of morning sickness for more than a week.

After dinner we layed in her bed and watched a show on her tablet for a little while.

The movie I had picked for us to watch she shut off halfway through because of a scene with a couple in bed that started showing sexual interest in each other. She berated my movie choice saying I always picked perverted movies (it was pg-13 graphic) and I can't be trusted to pick something decent.

She then fell asleep but within two hours she got up to go sleep on her small Loveseat. We have gone through this a few times in the past when attempting to live together. She would go weeks with sleeping on the couch instead of in the bedroom with me. I will talk more on this later.

Tonight, after she left to sleep on her Loveseat, I opened her tablet and looked at her history.

This afternoon she looked at several cartoon shemales having sex videos and then she looked at ways to commit suicide on Wikipedia, and then a page on real suicide notes people have left behind.

So the obvious pattern just hit me as Ive now seen three instances of this. She looks at porn then looks at suicide.

I believe she is looking at this odd porn and masturbating. Afterwards with feelings of possibly shame or self loathing she then looks at suicide.

It is late. I need to sleep on this.

[Grey Kitty]

YIKES, Seeks.

This makes sense in the context of recovering from childhood sexual abuse.

Seeing a couple showing sexual interest in a movie will obviously get her thinking about sex and couples.

Triggers her.

She doesn't have good self-soothing tools. So she blames you for it, as being mad at you is "safer" for her than staying with her own feelings about this.

Please look for some support specifically for partners of people recovering from childhood sexual abuse. There have to be some good resources out there.

I see this pattern: (likely horny/needy/somethin... .you don't know what she was feeling at the time) -> porn -> shame -> suicidal ideation.

She really needs support and help.

What do you know about her mother and her relationship with her mother? Is her mother emotionally stable/solid, healthy, and trustworthy? Are there serious unresolved issues between the two of them from her childhood?

I'm asking because your fiancé desperately needs help and support right now. If her mother is trustworthy, sharing this with her could really help, possibly saving her life. Or it could trigger something which blows up her r/s with both you and her mother.

[Seeks]

Her mom is retired from the mental health field and is stable for the most part. I watched some pretty good dysfunction from her through her divorce and now with her new boyfriend. She is the one that alerted me to my finances BPD issues. We talked about her sexual abuse but her mom would only confirm it and refused to go into details or talk on it further. She also acknowledged that throughout my fiancées years as a baby and young child she was locked in a room alone when she cried and was not allowed to be touched. 

They have a good relationship now but there is much tension concerning the past so she is not a good choice for someone to turn to in this matter.

It has been that way with the movies for years. Neither one of us has satellite or cable so all we watch is movies on demand when we do watch tv. She always wants me to choose and then I am held responsible for the contant. Trying to avoid triggering her in this area is near impossible.

Engulfment is already apparent as I have been spending more time with her. Being in such a one sided relationship with such issues is discouraging.

I am paying attention to her and looking for options. Hoping for a miracle. I need to open communication with her somehow.

Five years in but this is new ground for me.

[Grey Kitty]

Geez, the things that were done to her as a baby and small child. Sigh. 

Moving along to the present... .looks like you would do very well to look farther for support regarding recovery from sexual abuse, and not talk to her mother on this issue.

Given her mother's mental health background, and generally good relationship with her daughter now, what about taking her into confidence about the suicidal thoughts (and a hint about what seems to trigger them, perhaps)?

Mental health professionals should be trained in how to handle suicide ideation, etc.

Since you found this mostly through snooping, you would have to trust her mom not to confront directly in any way which could implicate you for both snooping then going behind her back to her mother.

Do you think her mother is trustworthy in this?