Reminder Why I Told Her She Can't Come Back

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

We are still doing ABA therapy for S7's autism (Level 1, what they used to call Asperger's)

After a two hour clinic meeting in my home (therapy tech, supervisor, director, me, ex, and the two kids), mommy decided that the kids hadn't eaten enough. Since it was at my home,  I was stepping in and out of the meeting to attend to the kids.  D on tablet,  checking on Saturday who was in the bathroom for over 20 mins (he gets obsessed with wiping.  Mom's anxiety doesn't help).

As everybody left, mom told the kids,  "did you eat enough?" I had asked S several times and he was OK. Fine. Natural consequences. If he were to be hungrier in the morning,  then he could eat more for breakfast.

Then mommy said,  "let me cook something for you." What? My house. I didn't have anything to cook anyway.  I had pulled out some chicken I'd bbqd the night before.  S7 didn't want it.  My ex saw it and started pulling it apart.  It would have been awkward to tell her to get the hell out in front of the kids.  So I joked, "mommy didn't wash her hands kids!" A bit immature, but she's the one who makes a big deal out of that. 

I said I had eaten the last of the corn tortillas the night before,  I only had flower for burritos.  Being Mexican, you only use flour for burritos.  Corn for tacos, flautas  (taquitos). The converted me. 

I tore a strip off a large flour tortilla to put on the griddle. I was in the mode of feeding the kids quickly and getting them to bed on a school night.  She criticized me,  "you have to let it warm up!" And reached to take the tortilla.  I blocked her hand. "It's fine," turned it once and handed it to her to make S7 his taco.  I put a piece on for D5 who wanted a cheese taco. It browned properly. "See? That's how it should look." D5 ate 1/3 and she was done. 

This seems a stupid story, writing it out,  but I was back into the WOE dynamic. What I should have done was bade her goodbye.  Hard to do with the kids wanting her to stay.  They asked her to stay and play a card game.

My core emotions (beyond being annoyed) were feeling invaded, and also controlled. I still feel this now and then,  like I didn't take care of then D1 and S3 by myself while she was out acting like a teenager with her Love.

Actually, if think about it,  my core hurt is feeling disrespected, or maybe useless. The disrespect I take as a given. I've seen her do this to her family and subsequent H.   Feeling useless lies squarely on my court, however.  I know that I'm not,  but getting signals that I am is still triggering.  Some of this is cultural,  too. Men are providers, don't take care of kids,  but are also cheaters and beaters (her thoughts).

Just when I think it's safe to go on the water... .I think I need to shoo her out quickly the next time.  The October clinic meeting will be at my home. 

Given my much lower tolerance for drama, I'm even more glad I didn't take her back.  I'd like to keep moving forward.

[Turkish]

We are still doing ABA therapy for S7's autism (Level 1, what they used to call Asperger's)

After a two hour clinic meeting in my home (therapy tech, supervisor, director, me, ex, and the two kids), mommy decided that the kids hadn't eaten enough. Since it was at my home,  I was stepping in and out of the meeting to attend to the kids.  D on tablet,  checking on Saturday who was in the bathroom for over 20 mins (he gets obsessed with wiping.  Mom's anxiety doesn't help).

As everybody left, mom told the kids,  "did you eat enough?" I had asked S several times and he was OK. Fine. Natural consequences. If he were to be hungrier in the morning,  then he could eat more for breakfast.

Then mommy said,  "let me cook something for you." What? My house. I didn't have anything to cook anyway.  I had pulled out some chicken I'd bbqd the night before.  S7 didn't want it.  My ex saw it and started pulling it apart.  It would have been awkward to tell her to get the hell out in front of the kids.  So I joked, "mommy didn't wash her hands kids!" A bit immature, but she's the one who makes a big deal out of that. 

I said I had eaten the last of the corn tortillas the night before,  I only had flower for burritos.  Being Mexican, you only use flour for burritos.  Corn for tacos, flautas  (taquitos). The converted me. 

I tore a strip off a large flour tortilla to put on the griddle. I was in the mode of feeding the kids quickly and getting them to bed on a school night.  She criticized me,  "you have to let it warm up!" And reached to take the tortilla.  I blocked her hand. "It's fine," turned it once and handed it to her to make S7 his taco.  I put a piece on for D5 who wanted a cheese taco. It browned properly. "See? That's how it should look." D5 ate 1/3 and she was done. 

This seems a stupid story, writing it out,  but I was back into the WOE dynamic. What I should have done was bade her goodbye.  Hard to do with the kids wanting her to stay.  They asked her to stay and play a card game.

My core emotions (beyond being annoyed) were feeling invaded, and also controlled. I still feel this now and then,  like I didn't take care of then D1 and S3 by myself while she was out acting like a teenager with her Love.

Actually, if think about it,  my core hurt is feeling disrespected, or maybe useless. The disrespect I take as a given. I've seen her do this to her family and subsequent H.   Feeling useless lies squarely on my court, however.  I know that I'm not,  but getting signals that I am is still triggering.  Some of this is cultural,  too. Men are providers, don't take care of kids,  but are also cheaters and beaters (her thoughts).

Just when I think it's safe to go on the water... .I think I need to shoo her out quickly the next time.  The October clinic meeting will be at my home. 

Given my much lower tolerance for drama, I'm even more glad I didn't take her back.  I'd like to keep moving forward.

[flourdust]

Hi, Turkish! A couple of thoughts here... .

First, your post made me hungry. That's pretty impressive since I've been sick all weekend. 

My core emotions (beyond being annoyed) were feeling invaded, and also controlled.

Actually, if think about it,  my core hurt is feeling disrespected, or maybe useless. ... .Some of this is cultural,  too. Men are providers, don't take care of kids,  but are also cheaters and beaters (her thoughts).

OK, that's a pretty interesting analysis and may be on point. It also may be too deep of a dive for the situation you were trying to manage.

I think I need to shoo her out quickly the next time. 

How about looking at this differently? From the outside perspective, this looks like a fairly innocuous situation - you and your ex were trying to address the kids' hunger in slightly different ways. There wasn't anything objectively inappropriate or dangerous happening here. You were having an emotional reaction that was starting to play out in some of your behaviors.

Why not manage this with distress tolerance skills? Slow down your reactions -- do a breathing exercise -- engage your other senses.

[Meili]

I think I need to shoo her out quickly the next time.  The October clinic meeting will be at my home. 

Can you discuss things with her before the meeting... .like days before? Let her know your feelings and expectations. Try to reach an agreement with her that she'll leave when the meeting is concluded and not hang around. This way the two of you can be on the same page in front of the kids.

[Sunfl0wer]

Idk, finding a way to set boundaries sounds like a useful skill. 
However, I certainly wouldn't count on a pwBPD following any agreement to do so. 

Maybe better to make tha a night you toss kids in the car and go for some McD's or such, and say goodbye to ex as you lock up the house, wish her a good evening.

(Just leave saying you're not sure where you are taking them, maybe pizza, maybe burgers, gonna decide in the car... .  that way she cannot hijack it and say she is also in the mood for pizza.)

[Harley Quinn]

I know this uncomfortable feeling of being invaded.  It used to happen when my ex would bring my son home and hang around (I used to allow him into the house and he'd start getting involved and disrupt our routine; now he says goodbye at the front door), and still happens when he lingers longer than necessary.  I want my son to be OK and casual about saying bye to his daddy and moving into the next phase of what he's doing.  In my mind I'm thinking 'right will you just F off now!' and on the surface I'm all calm and smiling for the benefit of my son.

What you need is her buy in beforehand that she will leave at the end of the meeting, and give an excuse if necessary should the kids ask her to stay.  That would be a reasonable request for a non disordered person as you could explain the valid reasons regarding routine, bedtime disruption etc.  You know best if she would be willing as a parent to go along with this.  The sticky part is that she is going along with appeasing the children and that is as frustrating to me as I can sense it is to you.  Especially when it can make it harder for them to then settle and get a good night's sleep.  It was an ongoing issue for me with my ex until we altered our schedule so we no longer have that opportunity for him to give me the knock on effect to deal with. 

This is a long way of saying I understand exactly where you're coming from and I wish you the best of luck in reducing these types of situations so that you can feel more in control of your environment and the kids can have clear expectations.  ie we see mummy when it is mummy time.

Love and light x

[40days_in_desert]

A suggestion might be for her to prepare something for the kids to eat for the next ABA therapy session. It's only one day a month from I read. This puts the ball in her court and allows her to be "mom" and also puts it on her if they don't eat as much as she thinks they should. I doubt that she will think that if she prepares the meal regardless of how much they eat. I'm not suggesting that she cook in your home but to prepare something and bring it with her. If she doesn't want to, it will give her less reason to complain about what and how much they eat even though she probably doesn't need a logical reason to complain about how you parent.
I would wait a week or more before mentioning it to her and I wouldn't reference the suggestion to be based on anything to do with her thinking that the kids didn't have enough to eat at the previous session. Just to be safe and if your ex is like mine, have a back up plan ready for dinner if you do suggest this to her and she accepts the offer to bring dinner next time. She may come empty handed and then find a reason to blame it on you.

[Turkish]

Can you discuss things with her before the meeting... .like days before? Let her know your feelings and expectations. Try to reach an agreement with her that she'll leave when the meeting is concluded and not hang around. This way the two of you can be on the same page in front of the kids.

Might be a good idea. 

I had the kids this weekend.  I took them to her company's employee family event.  She was OK.  It was outdoors. Afterwards, I agreed to take the kids to mom's SIL's baby shower at my ex-laws. My ex asked me to change the kids into nice clothes. It would reflect badly upon her of her kids showed up as ragamuffins, on her mind.  I asked D5 if she wanted to change.  No.  Ok.  I knew my ex had to work late and wouldn't show up until about when we would leave.  She did,  and didn't mention that I hadn't changed the kids.  If it were a baptism,  say,  I would have changed them.  I am free from worrying about how people think of me as a parent.  And I'm pretty sure not one person cared about how the kids were dressed. 

Their mom got off late,  and drove directly from the event in the same clothes despite telling me she was going home to shower and get dolled up. 

It was actually an ok day with her.  Maybe not resdressing the kids was passive aggressive? Or maybe me feeling free to parent on my own.  It could have gone the other way,  depending upon her mood and her FOO issues.  She told me later that her mom was glad I brought the kids.

The next clinic meeting is next Monday.  I'll lay out food enough so she won't feel the need to stay and cook.  If I get the feeling that she's triggered by her anxiety, I'll be proactive and shuffle everyone out of the house at the same time. 

Even so,  I still feel nostalgic when she helps put the kids to bed,  like what could have,  should have been... .

[Meili]

It sounds like you have a pretty good plan. 

It's good to hear that everything went ok even though you didn't make the kids change clothes.

Oh, man, I get that nostalgia thing. That's the part that I still struggle with the most. Even knowing all that I know now, I still have those thoughts. I've spent the better part of the past year avoiding situations and people which I am pretty sure will cause them to creep in. It's not a healthy way to live.

I often find that when the what could/should have been thoughts start, I have to remind myself of what was. It's somewhat effective. Not always. I still have a lot of guilt.

[Turkish]

Monday's meeting went ok.  Smoke from the Cali fires is thick. I kept everything closed.  At one point my ex paused, "sorry, I have an issue with smells,  he knows how it is," she motioning to me.  I turned off the plug in scented. I noticed the breeze had shifted, so I opened the front and back doors.

She talked the most.  I find these meetings boring.  I had an excuse to get out of it by cooking for the kids and dealing with their little conflicts from time to time. 

My ex said that she read short non-uniform pants for D5. I gave her a bag and told her to take all she needed from her drawer.  She took her time.  I went back to check on her and she said,  "there's a smell in here, like someone's been smoking," on a tone blaming me.  She had greeted our son in the same room an hour previously. I didn't say much. I really couldn't stand the whole "I'm blaming you for things out of your control" shtick. Maybe that's my problem.

She made a comment about me not going through clothes to get rid of things that didn't fit.  I let it go.  Deep drawer. D5 wears stuff that fits on top. 

Luckily she didn't desire to stick around.  I had to bathe the kids as well.  She said she needed to eat.  Lack of food is a big mood trigger for her.  I'm glad she was aware of this,  she left without drama. 

To sum it up, I was only WOE a little bit.  The smell triggers... .our son is also like this,  without being a jerk.

She's moving in about two weeks.  We'll see how that goes.  Sans husband, as far as I know. 

[Meili]

All-in-all, it sounds like things went better this time.

I too have issues with being blamed for things that are not within my control. Mine stem from FOO issues, so at least I have some idea what's going on. Any idea where yours come from?

[Turkish]

All-in-all, it sounds like things went better this time.

I too have issues with being blamed for things that are not within my control. Mine stem from FOO issues, so at least I have some idea what's going on. Any idea where yours come from?

Realistically,  does anybody like this?

I have no problem dealing with constructive criticism.  Being 25 years in the Fortune 100 tech world, not a single performance review has reflected the opposite,  and not a few noting how well I worked with others.  :)itto for the 4 years I worked food  service before that.

Still, there is an emotion there,  being the latchkey kid is a single mother who worked nights and slept days so I was left to fend for myself more often then not.  I think I might better connect with someone who had similar experiences.

Re: Bowen, I think I may be hyper differentiated... .to the point of feeling that I don't need anybody. Though I'm not losing sleep over it,  I'm cognizant about not putting things into the kids' heads which don't need to be there.  

[happendtome]

One of my ex-s son has also autism. About same age as your son. Is it common? or where does it come from? To me he seemed perfectly normal, but then again, he was diagnosed and he had also therapy sessions. Still, could it be over-reaction by parents and proffessionals? Im sure no one isnt normal if you are just willing to do enough tests. ABA therapist, who was doing these sessions said that kid is just badly raised.

[AnuDay]

I have a very similar dynamic with my exBPDgf.  She used to like to come over and linger and put the kids to bed.  I always looked at her like "are you crazy?"  and "you need to get the f out".  I let her do it once and then the next time I realized one of the reasons I didnt like her was her parenting skills.  I also realized this was a golden opportunity to raise my children unobstructed by her so I started getting her out the apartment early.  Then I stopped letting her "drop-in" for sugar. Of course this led to rages and fits, but I was and still am extremely uncomfortable when she is around... .antsy, on-edge.  We go through the same dramas ":)id they eat?" She calls to ask if I put them to bed.  She calls in the morning to ask if I took them to school.  I've answered a couple of those calls.  One time she called repeatedly (I wouldn't answer) to ask something mundane about the kids while I had them. I thought it was an emergency so I answered.  Normally I don't answer.  I only answer or respond to texts on my time.   It took a few occassions but after telling her to get out a few times she still didn't get the message. It was my mistake because I was sending mixed signals. After taking advice from you, skip, and foreverdad I changed it up a little. I started being more firm with her.  I stopped letting her in.  I called the police. NOW she gets it.  Of course this sent her into a rage of all rages, but at least she gets it now. Now she won't step foot in here (she's slowly trying to creep back in). The difference with my situation though is that my daughters like me a little more than they like their mom. They argue with their mom and don't listen to her.  When they see her come here they don't get excited that she's standing outside. They don't get excited to go to her apartment. Their mom doesn't really spend a lot of quality time with them. She's usually on facebook while the kids are watching netflix or on a tablet.  My daughters joke around with me now.  When I go to the bathroom they knock on the front door and pretend it's their mother then I find out it's not and they run and laugh. 

With all that being said, it's definitely a cpntrol game. You can read posts on here all day about people being manipukated.  I am at the point in my life where I am absolutely tired of being controlled or manipulated.  So I have zero tolerance for it. BPD is all about keeping you in the FOG so that they can control and manipulate. I don't know what WOE is.  But whenever you see them pull one of their plays out you have to react differently than you ever have before.  Try not to react first and if you can't help it, switch it up. 

I picked the kids up once and they were in their pajamas at 7:45. I told them to put clothes on.  The exgfBPD said "No".  I asked her why and she told me because the kids were going to bed. I told her squarely "You don't know what the f the kids are going to be doing."  I had to curse in front of the kids, something I hate doing, but I got my point across... .maybe.  She texted an hour later apologizing followed by an attempted recycle... .insane.

[Turkish]

One of my ex-s son has also autism. About same age as your son. Is it common? or where does it come from? To me he seemed perfectly normal, but then again, he was diagnosed and he had also therapy sessions. Still, could it be over-reaction by parents and proffessionals? Im sure no one isnt normal if you are just willing to do enough tests. ABA therapist, who was doing these sessions said that kid is just badly raised.

That's interesting.  I saw a comment on Glassdor by an employee of the company providing therapy like,  "kid had a problem.  Fixed problem.  Parents went back to old behaviors and problem returned." My ex works training young people with learning disabilities to be employable. She's an ace in her career.  She told me horror stories about parents... .

I agreed to have S7 evaluated. He was diagnosed with ASD-1 (what they used to call Asperger's before DSM-V) by a PhD and a PsychD. 
I noticed his behaviors when he was 1. I used to call him Baby Rainman (not politically correct, I know). I don't attribute vaccines or any of that to this,  just that it's the way he is.  Mom,  Dx'd with Anxiety, makes a bigger deal out of it.  Our son lives more in his mind.  I can relate,  though I never had any ASD symptoms.

AnuDay

It sounds like a similar dynamic, yet your ex amps it up a bit more,  and you're angry,  which is understandable. I had good conversation today exchanging kids at her mom's house.  Pleasant.  Normal.  No anxiety or WOE.

She's moving next week into a new apartment without her husband,  I am pretty sure.  Per the custody stipulation, we're not supposed to "interrogate" the kids,  but I asked S7 when he'd seen his step-dad last. This was predicated by S7 saying his SD could jump off the stairs from the second story as we dropped off D5 at Mommy's. He said that they hadn't seen him in a while.  I haven't asked their mom,  but I'm 99% sure she's moving with the kids into subsidized housing with just them. 

Ultimately, it's none of my business who she chooses to be with.  She's an "independent entity" as my T said.  I'm a little worried since I know one of her biggest fears is being alone.  That,  however, isn't my business. 

Drama will come,  assuredly,  but I'll take that day by day rather than trying to control events,  which is impossible.