Do DV policies and enforcement empower BPD behavior?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I spent 35 years of my life learning to hurt people in one way or another --- a weapon is merely an extension of the hand.  The first and best lesson from all of this training in Western and Eastern disciplines was the same --to not fight. 

“Every battle is won before it’s ever fought.”  ― Sun Tzu

I was taught, bloodied and beaten into the belief that violence is a matter of absolute last resort. 

To continue with the dog example.  I have never hit my dog.  I have never yelled at my dog.  Interestingly people yell at their dog for barking right?  You are 'barking' while they do and rewarding the behavior.

Even when my undiagnosed BPD ex was raging I let her know violence was off the table.  She tested me with aggressive finger poking. Even if she had hit me I would never have hit her back.  Violence begets violence.  It would have in my opinion rewarded her behavior and caused an escalation.

I feel fighting and violence are binary.  Either I am fighting to put someone down and out or I am not fighting.  Shades of grey and a lack of commitment in a fight is extremely dangerous.  You do not shoot to wound and you do not fight to injure.  So to cross the line and actually strike someone I would be crossing an emotional line and committing fully.  It must simply remain off the table in my opinion.

She told me once her boyfriend before me 'wanted people to be afraid of him'.  I told her I never want anyone to fear me.


Wicker Man

[Wicker Man]

I spent 35 years of my life learning to hurt people in one way or another --- a weapon is merely an extension of the hand.  The first and best lesson from all of this training in Western and Eastern disciplines was the same --to not fight. 

“Every battle is won before it’s ever fought.”  ― Sun Tzu

I was taught, bloodied and beaten into the belief that violence is a matter of absolute last resort. 

To continue with the dog example.  I have never hit my dog.  I have never yelled at my dog.  Interestingly people yell at their dog for barking right?  You are 'barking' while they do and rewarding the behavior.

Even when my undiagnosed BPD ex was raging I let her know violence was off the table.  She tested me with aggressive finger poking. Even if she had hit me I would never have hit her back.  Violence begets violence.  It would have in my opinion rewarded her behavior and caused an escalation.

I feel fighting and violence are binary.  Either I am fighting to put someone down and out or I am not fighting.  Shades of grey and a lack of commitment in a fight is extremely dangerous.  You do not shoot to wound and you do not fight to injure.  So to cross the line and actually strike someone I would be crossing an emotional line and committing fully.  It must simply remain off the table in my opinion.

She told me once her boyfriend before me 'wanted people to be afraid of him'.  I told her I never want anyone to fear me.


Wicker Man

[Husband321]

I spent 35 years of my life learning to hurt people in one way or another --- a weapon is merely an extension of the hand.  The first and best lesson from all of this training in Western and Eastern disciplines was the same --to not fight. 

“Every battle is won before it’s ever fought.”  ― Sun Tzu

I was taught, bloodied and beaten into the belief that violence is a matter of absolute last resort. 

To continue with the dog example.  I have never hit my dog.  I have never yelled at my dog.  Interestingly people yell at their dog for barking right?  You are 'barking' while they do and rewarding the behavior.


Wicker Man

I totally agree.  I just feel we live in a strange society where over 70 percent of Americans feel it is ok to hit children!  We are more proud and outspoken about not hitting dogs.

I guess in my head I wonder how the BPD woman thinks.  If it were me, I would not hit someone much bigger/stronger/skilled at fighting.  (I wouldn't initiate violence in the first place against anyone). So do they do this as they know they won't be hit back? Or because they know the police will be on their side? Or they simply can't control their impulses.  I wonder if they could be legally treated as equals, if they would continue such behavior.

[Wicker Man]

Or they simply can't control their impulses. 

My experience with an undiagnosed BPD lover was brief, only a year.  During this time I saw no ability to control her emotions whatsoever.  Fight or flight is based in fear.  I think her life was so full of fear she would lash out in any manner at her disposal.  Usually words, sometimes ghosting people, sometimes risqué behavior (notice the restraint ), sometimes in moments of crushing darkness she would cut herself. 

She once tore all the flooring out of her grandparents apartment with her bare hands.  She is 90 pounds and to this day the floor remains unadorned concrete.  She loves them more than any other people on earth.

I believe if she had had the presence of mind to think 'hmmmm the police will help me' she would have had the presence of mind remembered all the people she was hurting loved her.  Likely all BPD people are as individual as the rest of us -no two are exactly alike.  Mine was passionate in rage and love -neither with any thought to consequences.  It may have been her youth.

I am relieved to read your view.  I was beginning to become concerned you advocated violence.  I beg your pardon for my misunderstanding.


Have a peaceful weekend,



Wicker Man

PS In my neighborhood the dogs are better behaved than the children -but this is a digression.

[rj47]

I knew I was treading in dangerous waters when I discovered that she told two friends one night that I had beaten and raped her. Her response of "I wanted someone to feel sorry for me" and "what do you care, you'll never see those people again" scared me even more. When she started threatening to call the police and have me locked up during her rages I knew that I was doomed. I've never touched her or any woman violently. Ever. She would say she was calling the police; clutch, then scratch her neck and arms and say "who do you think they will believe?", I knew I could take no more.

So, I began to keep my phone close and would turn the recorder on during the raging so I could replay for the police if they showed. She would often boast during many of the rages as to what she was planning. I figured with so many recordings, I was in a better place should she ever call them. I also met with a senior policeman after a bad night where I let her beat the snot out of me. It wasn't to press charges, but to let them know what might come from her and what I was doing with the phone. He didn't object, wondered about the legality of doing so, but suggested that it was probably a good idea. It was dishonest of me, but what choice is there but protect oneself? Three years out and I still cannot listen to those recordings.

[toomanydogs]

I knew I was treading in dangerous waters when I discovered that she told two friends one night that I had beaten and raped her. Her response of "I wanted someone to feel sorry for me" and "what do you care, you'll never see those people again" scared me even more. When she started threatening to call the police and have me locked up during her rages I knew that I was doomed. I've never touched her or any woman violently. 

Fascinating thread. By everyone.
This post really speaks to me. My STBX used to tell people I physically abused him. I'm 4'10"; he's 5'11". Plus, I never spanked my kids. I once pulled my daughter by the ponytail when she was 2 because she was about to run into traffic.
When she went through a biting stage, people used to tell me I should spank her or bite her back. Instead, if I was carrying her, I'd flip her upside down, so she couldn't really hurt me.
I personally think spanking should be against the law. However, I know I'm in the  minority.
I am tired today, but still happy I am in a position where all the craziness will eventually end.
TMD

[CryWolf]

Touchy subject. But this is a safe place so I’d share. After a petty argument by my exBPd. And after I proved her wrong, all of a sudden she hit me with the “you raped me” and changed all the details of one of the nights we had sex. Changed every little thing that occured and made me feel like I was going crazy. Used the one thing I hate, rape. Against me. I can’t even watch it in movies without getting pissed, yet she accused me of lt. threatened to go to the cops if I ever come contacted her Again. Blamed me for the reason we dont hve sex anymore because I’m a monster.

I was scared at work. I was scared everyday she would ruin my life. I was scared to say date anyone she would probably get mad and use it against me and control me.

I never felt so broken, anxious, confused in my life. A month later, got back together. She pushed for sex and I asked for consent. I saw the shame in her face for her lies.

Relationship was never the same after that. I didn’t feel safe anymore. I felt my heart race everytime we were together instead of being safe like before. I withdrew completely until the relationship ran its course. I would rush home after a date instead of sleeping over and find excuses to do homework or go to work. She of course blamed me for being needy and that’s why She left. Told me she didn’t feel eel anything romantic yet was the one that told me she wasnt a sexual person and is asexual and I respected her.

Sorry for hijacking. Just wanted to share.

[rj47]

Sorry for hijacking. Just wanted to share.

No hijacking. It happens. I still love my ex, but on a very different plane. I still care for the person I spent 25 years with. I genuinely want her to have healing and happiness.

When sex becomes a weapon the scales come off for a lot of us men. Its an area where most of us are careful, respectful of boundaries, and the limits to passion. During those intimate moments when we are most vulnerable certain rules do apply in the aftermath. My ex messaging a man (that she was in an emotional affair with) the next morning that I raped her mortified and disturbed me more than anything she had done it 20 years. She had attempted to seduce me to defuse the situation she had created. It was a routine that I participated in for years to calm the "demon". Her way of rebalancing and saying never mind, "get over yourself, I need a good f*****g".  It didn't work that night. I had been broken from five hours of raging while I sat quietly and endured the play book as I always did.

Accusations of abuse hit very hard at our core if we're decent, respectful, gentle, and loving. For me, it was the final straw the broke the camels back. Her painfully feeble attempts to casually dismiss her behavior fell on deaf ears. I was finally very afraid.

IMO, engaging or even threatening to involve the police should become a deal breaker. When the PD evolves into suggestions or accusations of abuse it is time to plan for an exit or at a minimum to protect oneself.

[Husband321]

IMO, engaging or even threatening to involve the police should become a deal breaker. When the PD evolves into suggestions or accusations of abuse it is time to plan for an exit or at a minimum to protect oneself.

Totally agree...

As for the laws, I don't even know if most people understand how they work.  Once in that web of the justice system you are GUILTY and totally at their mercy. There doesn't have to be any proof of violence. Rape. Or injuries. or anything. It isn't what you see on TV. Your BPD spouse cannot decide to drop charges. It is in the hands of the prosecutor. And it will be on your record forever. Hindering employment. Never being able to own a gun. Etc.  

When my BPD ex painted me white again, I told her she must tell the truth about what happened. She emailed the prosecutor, the "anger management" psychologist I had to see etc... This helped... But for the many months before my final court date, any tiny argument led her to jump to "I am going to tell the courts I lied in those emails and you are hitting me constantly" Luckily she never did, and luckily the entire case was dropped at the last minute without me having to plea to a lesser charge.

Thats the problem with the court system. Does  marking a totally innocent persons record forever somehow prevent a murder? Or is it a way for everyone else to make more money... Anger management courses. Probation. Bail bondsman. Lawyers. Fines. etc. If I was poor, lets just say I would be screwed.

Another time we were having a great night. But she was drinking scotch. And she drank ALOT.

Something set her off, and she started packing her bags to go leave. She was clearly not able to drive and could barely walk.  So I took the keys and hid them, knowing this would pass in a half hour... Well she called police... Police came and had her take a cab. (she returned a half hour later)They told me what I did could be "false imprisonment", or even "kidnapping" in the future, and what I am supposed to do is let her go, then call the cops on her drunk driving, then she would get a DUI. Doesn't make much sense to me, but that would be playing that particular situation correctly in the eyes of the law.

Its one thing to deal with someone hitting you when they rage. tearing your clothes. Destroying your things. But on top of that to having to deal with the justice system, because they are still archaically looked at as a "weak, vulnerable, helpless, innocent" woman in the eyes of society.  

As you can see from the other thread below, when one person is the hitter 80% of the time it is the woman. I think it would be nice to know which rules we are playing by. Are men and women equal in this society? Or are women weaker and must be protected?  It sets off a strange dynamic that empowers women (especially a BPD woman) to be the abuser, yet also be viewed as the abused.  

While a man abusing a woman is equally abhorrent, at least the woman knows with a fair amount of certainty a call to the cops detailing actual physical abuse will lead to justice under the law.
 
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240171.80

[Husband321]

I don't mean to go on and on, but after being removed from this situation for 6 months, I have different views...

I am just happy to be free... . Anytime I think of missing her, or when I did, no matter what I am doing is better than possibly having the govt take my freedom away based on lies. She still reaches out to me to get back together, and one of the main reasons I would not consider a recycle was her threats to contact law enforcement in the past.

We can all play with stats, but I do believe govt imposed DV laws have a negative effect on these relationships.  Yes, men kill about 1000 current and past intimate partners annually. How many of these men are former military. How many are mentally ill. How many are on crack cocaine. etc etc
DV stats also show most murders of these types are in the African American community, accounting for 45%. This is out of 380,000,000 people.

So is each man a potential murderer?  I guess thats how I felt like I was treated because a BPD woman who was attacking ME, decided to make 911 calls.

At the end of the day, all of us make choices... . While she was volatile and violent, the make up sex was amazing. Many things were amazing. I made a conscious choice to stay.

Many women stay with violent BPD men to try  fix, protect,  or help them. That gives them some sort of pleasure or feeling of being needed. Can these women really not leave, or do they choose to stay? I chose to stay. How does law enforcement pass blanket laws to combat basic human nature.
Unfortunately all of the women I have ever known to be "abused", find this same pattern in every single relationship. 


I think many of us have some view of domestic violence as being the nice, gentle quiet woman is at home, and some man comes home to just beat her. And she has no escape.  Im not sure if that is because of the media, or how we were raised, but in real life I have found many shades of grey to this problem.

I also think in my situation, that 1 minute drunken/impulsive decision on her part to call law enforcement, led to an entire year of stress... Anger management appt... Changing court dates... .Constant letters from "domestic violence" help groups. It was like something that would never go away.

[Wicker Man]

@Husband321 I am sorry you had to experience such a horrific situation.  It must have seemed the world was upside down. 

We are raised to have so much reverence for the justice system and to see it through the lens of such a series of events must have been incredibly painful and iconoclastic. 

I am glad to hear it is behind you.



Wicker Man

[Skip]

In my case, my wife would get upset, pick up the phone, and just call 911 asking for a police escort. I mean we would barely be arguing at times and I would be shocked.  

Police come over, come inside, talk to us, she gathers her things and leaves... Then she would come back in  an hour and apologize... It was a scary and embarrassing ordeal to have 3 cop cars show up at my home in the neighborhood.

So after she did this a few times, and she said she never would again, she did it again... .

However this time when she called , I was recorded on the 911 tape as saying
"put the phone down", and I grabbed the phone...  Well, this is "obstructing a 911 call", and I was arrested for that. $3200 for bail, $1500 for an attorney, having to meet an "anger management" professional, and the whole ordeal took a year.

Husband321,

I've read all your posts on this topic. Your gf/wife called the police on 5 occasions when you two were fighting and requested a police escort so she could leave the house. The fifth time you took the phone away from her, the police have this recorded, and were arrested for a misdemeanor which caries up to 1 year jail time - you were given a pass because it was the first arrest and you wen to anger training.

You have said that man at times need to be physically intimating and/or hit women to maintain respect, some women won't respect men who don't do this at the appropriate times, a couple should have the right to have physical violence (even at the level of the Ray Rice incident), and the government is subverting the natural relationship between men and women with laws that make anything "abuse" (referring to the Duluth Power and Control Wheel).

We have had many members arrested for DV and many arrested for false DV. The message they collectively have given out members is:

Domestic violence - don't do it (the costs are huge). Get away from any women who even hint at making false or exaggerated claims (the costs are huge).

1. Because of social movement, police operate with aggressive DV policies and in many states must remove one party from the fight (arrest). 2. Police are often told to identify and arrest the primary aggressor - not the person that started the fight. They will arrests the person with the most force. If a women had a gun or knife, she would probably be seen as the primary aggressor, but if it is size/muscle it would be the male. Doesn't matter who called 911. 3. Once arrested, your partner cannot "drop the charges". The DA role is to avoid situations like the Ray Rice case where the spouse did not want her husband punished because she  would suffer the financial losses too ($4Million in the Rice case). 4. Even though most cases are dropped, we can spend a time in jail, drop $10,000 in legal fees, go to court ordered classes, and be "in the system" for 1-2 years.

I know one thing I have learned from reading here is that domestic violence is one of those things that can easily spiral out of control and go very bad very fast.  Tony Brown, nominated by President George W. Bush for a position within the U.S. Treasury Department in 2001, was killed by his wife over an argument about a google search - neighbors were stunned. Here is a list of other DV deaths: www.domesticviolencehomicidehelp.com/2017-deaths/

So, my question is, after going through all of this, what have you learned about yourself regarding domestic violence and what will you do in the future if there is conflict like the 5 incidences with your ex gf/wife?

[Husband321]

Husband321,

So, my question is, after going through all of this, what have you learned about yourself regarding domestic violence and what will you do in the future if there is conflict like the 5 incidences with your ex gf/wife?

Thats a good question. And I did have to go to an "anger management" evaluation, but he suggested I did not have a problem with anger, so I did not need the course.

I think if  police calls or threats occur just while dating, the answer is easy... Zero tolerance...

if this starts to occur after being married with children, zero tolerance sounds good, but probably not practical. I am open to practical answers for this... You say something your wife doesn't like and she throws something or smacks you... .What to do?  She threatens to call police on YOU... What to do?  

Yes, certain things spiral out of control... Road rage, parents spanking their children harder and harder, and arguments and physical altercations with your wife.

Maybe if we send people who give the finger to other drivers to jail, it would also prevent future road rage deaths, which is also a problem.  Maybe everyone of them is a potential murderer as well.

It would be nice if we lived in a perfect world... .Where in every relationship a man is together with his wife every single day and night. She has her PMS days... He has his work stress.  :)ealing with deaths, money, sex, jealousy, kids,  alcohol, family, friends , exes, and everyone just has the perfect way to vent and communicate anger and frustration. Unfortunately, BPD or not, for most couples that is not the case. it doesn't mean they are criminals, especially if those 2 people CHOOSE that lifestyle.

In all reality, in most cases, you might really upset your wife and she lashes out... Women are emotional beings... We all get that... Especially BPD women.  Ideally you just hold her, apologize if in the wrong, make her feel loved, and in 5 minutes it goes away. You are the man... .The rock...

It just adds a new "twist" if you will,  if she lashes out AND threatens to call the police, knowing you will be screwed.  The love you were about to give for seeing her upset THEN turns to mistrust, anger, confusion, and terror.   The lashing out is easy to deal with... The men coming to your home with guns who do not know either of you, are not.

[Husband321]

Husband321,



You have said that man at times need to be physically intimating and/or hit women to maintain respect,

More or less I was wondering if this many women would be hitting men IF they knew they could be hit back.  What if they couldn't call men with guns to be the white knight heroes?  Could they then control themselves?   Are girls raised with the mantra "never hit a boy"?

[rj47]

More or less I was wondering if this many women would be hitting men IF they knew they could be hit back.  What if they couldn't call men with guns to be the white knight heroes?  Could they then control themselves?   Are girls raised with the mantra "never hit a boy"?

I learned quickly that even restraining my ex-wife (ie; holding her wrists) from hitting me in the face and chest could be construed as violence by me. I figured out the best approach was simply to "run". Always kept a set of cloths in the boot of my car for a hotel. Even when she resorted to threatening, then destroying the house when I would leave, I had to do it. She was 5'3". I'm 6'2". While it might not be fair; to fight back in any way isn't either as we're generally much stronger physically. We're also more suspect than them if the police show.

[Turkish]

I learned quickly that even restraining my ex-wife (ie; holding her wrists) from hitting me in the face and chest could be construed as violence by me.

This is what scared me when my mother got in my face calling me a liar when I first moved her in with us,  and near the end when she got in my face again waving her calendar and threatening me with a lawyer because I had "stolen" her truck. My buddy was keeping it at his home safely because of we had left it on her property it would have been stolen or stripped (it was eventually stolen from her property over a year later after I had returned it to her but that's another stupid story). Her license had been revoked by DMV.

The link Skip posted was for DV deaths in Wisconsin only.  Tragic enough for only a single state out of 50... .and more so because children were murdered,  by both men and women.  

[Skip]

So, my question is, after going through all of this, what have you learned about yourself regarding domestic violence and what will you do in the future if there is conflict like the 5 incidences with your ex gf/wife?

Thats a good question. And I did have to go to an "anger management" evaluation, but... .

Thanks, but I'm not really sure you are answering it.

The hypothetical you speak about in this are not what happened in your life.

You physically overpowered another human and took the phone away when she was trying to call 911 for a "police standby" as she exited the home after a fight. It is illegal (for obvious reasons), and it's troubling behavior to a lot of members. In the previous 4 "police standbys" your gf/wife did not try to have you arrested or make a false claims, she took a safety measure. Do you see how overpowering her to control phone seems like an escalation?

Shouldn't the police have concerns when a third party is overpowering a person making a 911 call? Isn't it expected/necessary that they take extraordinary and even unsafe measures to converge on the scene as fast as possible (i.e., racing through the streets) as a life may be a stake? Would they have been during their jobs if they didn't see this as a potential sign of extreme danger?

1. Is there really something wrong with the law or the police conduct or the actions of your ex gf/wife that caused you to be arrested? It would seem that there is a very personal life lesson here.

2. What were these five domestic violence calls about?

Extortion and control by your ex gf/wife ? Drama making on the part of your ex gf/wife ? A leveling of the power/threat in relationship fights? Honest sincere concerns by your ex gf/wife (you views on intimidation and power as a tool of respect are pretty strong)?

 

Why only a "standby" with no false claims (the thing you are most concerned about)?

[Husband321]

Thanks, but I'm not really sure you are answering it.

The hypothetical you speak about in this are not what happened in your life.

You physically overpowered another human and took the phone away when she was trying to call 911 for a "police standby" as she exited the home after a fight. It is illegal (for obvious reasons), and it's troubling behavior to a lot of members. In the previous 4 "police standbys" your gf/wife did not try to have you arrested or make a false claims, she took a safety measure. Do you see how overpowering her to control phone seems like an escalation?

Shouldn't the police have concerns when a third party is overpowering a person making a 911 call? Isn't it expected/necessary that they take extraordinary and even unsafe measures to converge on the scene as fast as possible (i.e., racing through the streets) as a life may be a stake? Would they have been during their jobs if they didn't see this as a potential sign of extreme danger?

1. Is there really something wrong with the law or the police conduct or the actions of your ex gf/wife that caused you to be arrested? It would seem that there is a very personal life lesson here.

2. What were these five domestic violence calls about?

Extortion and control by your ex gf/wife ? Drama making on the part of your ex gf/wife ? A leveling of the power/threat in relationship fights? Honest sincere concerns by your ex gf/wife (you views on intimidation and power as a tool of respect are pretty strong)?

 

Why only a "standby" with no false claims (the thing you are most concerned about)?

Well I guess the difference is that I know my wife, she was not in any harm, she knew she was not in any harm, and the police do NOT know that.  Every single time she would call for an "escort", and once the police left, and she left,  she would be back in 20 minutes... It was absolutely ridiculous to waste the officers time, embarrassing to have the neighbors watching, and dangerous for both of us depending on how the officers feel about repeatedly coming over for this... So yes, I didn't like her to keep doing this for obvious reasons.

That particular night she had too much to  drink, and I decided to sleep on the couch... .Well that made her angry... .She says  "Ok, I am calling 911 for an escort"... .I was on tape saying "put the phone down, this is ridiculous. just leave". And yes, I briefly tried to grab her phone, but let her have it to continue her call.  I didn't even know she already dialed... As she would say it anytime I didn't do what she wanted me to...

Now throughout the course of our relationship, what the police do not know, is that I NEVER threatened her physically... NEVER pushed her... Ripped her clothes. NOTHING.

But she did all of the above to me DOZENS of times... .Do you see the problem?  I could not call the police on her for that, as I would probably be taken away... Yet if she calls she is the "innocent female victim who has this big mean man trying to grab the phone."  And before her calls I would say "You realize you are attacking me. And ripped my clothes. Why are you calling the cops?"  And she would say "I am the woman. You think they would take me to jail? hahah". So I had no idea what she would tell the police once they arrive.   So yes... .I used my "power" to grab the phone... I was wrong... The dozens of times she punched, kicked, ripped my clothes and threw things at me... .Well she is smaller so it's ok and I have no recourse.


What was it about on her end? Control. Drama. Enjoyed making a big scene. power... I have no idea...

[Husband321]

Let me mentally work through this...

Man and wife:

A. If your wife is hitting you, just leave the premises. Calling 911 may land you in jail. Pushing her out of the way to leave can land you in jail.
B. She is smaller and weaker, and more men kill women, so men are hauled away to jail.
C. Domestic violence can spiral out of control and lead to murder.

Now your wife, being an adult, can leave anytime. Women leave men for many reasons, all the time... She has free will...

Adult and 5 year old:

A. Child is much smaller and much weaker. Child cannot hurt you at all.
B. If your child hits you, even though you outweigh him 10 to 1, you are 100% allowed to slap or spank him.  President Obama even said in a speech "More parents need to whoop their kids and their neighbors kids"
C. Children ARE TOTALLY CAPTIVE... They can legally get spanked every single day, and they CANNOT leave.

So why is spanking your wife against her will illegal?  Yet spanking a toddler against his will totally legal and applauded?  Remember she can leave... Your child cannot. She can hurt your physically. Your child cannot.

I am guessing the theory is it ok to impose your strength on a toddler, and if spanking isn't working, then maybe need to hit harder, right?  I am also thinking more parents kill children than vice versa... .Yet children do not have the right to live in a home without being assaulted...

It's also nice how we play with words... Assaulting a child is not assault or domestic violence... We can also call it "whooping" and all laugh.

And yes... I am thinking with the current climate, it definitely leads more women to be physically aggressive, because:

A. A real man wouldn't call the cops
B. if he calls the cops he will be the one arrested.

[Husband321]

And this is a board dealing with BPD's.  I had to make many "executive" decisions to keep her safe. Taking our new Porsche to the ghetto to buy weed from total strangers was something I said no too. Her wanting to get wasted and drive around I would say no too.  And yes. Her thinking it was cute to call police over was another  Thing I would say no to.

If your 5 yr old dialed 911 when you would punish him would you take his phone? Or would you let him do it daily?  I am guessing you would use your size and strength to grab the phone. That was similar to dealing with her at times. Yet she was in an adult body.

And why wake me up to dial in front of me? Or pretend dial. I mean if you are in that much danger just leave.  Just dial in the other room.  It made no sense. 

[Husband321]

Thanks, but I'm not really sure you are answering it.

The hypothetical you speak about in this are not what happened in your life.

You physically overpowered another human and took the phone away when she was trying to call 911 for a "police standby" as she exited the home after a fight. It is illegal (for obvious reasons), and it's troubling behavior to a lot of members.

Skip. This is what perhaps you are overlooking.

You and I might call them he police if we sense we are in danger. Or for help etc.

Not everyone is like you or I.

Many women call the police to win an argument.  For attention. For amusement. To have power. 

My ex wife would come back 30 minutes later LAUGHING about how a certain cop talked.  How ridiculous they were.  How silly the whole thing was.

So if I made a decision to "grab the phone" and ask her not to call, I have my reasons. I know her.  It was part of a game.  The blanket law is quite silly in that case.  I was right.  But legally it was not legal.

thats  the problem.  People envision some man beating a woman, she is struggling, man grabbing her. Life or death.  But that was far from ever the case.

It was her, in an arrogant tone "well I'm calling 911 for a police escort". Out of nowhere. 

[Husband321]

And that was my point of the thread.  There are many gray areas when dealing with a BPD that can get you in trouble with the law.  

Sometimes it's a no win.

The wife got drunk and wanted to drive around by herself.  I am talking about half a bottle of scotch.

I took the car keys so she wouldn't.  She called for a "police escort".

Police told me that could be "kidnapping".  And not to again. What I should do is let her drive away then call police so she gets a dui.

Now if she kills herself or someone people will say "how did you let her drive. Why didn't you take her keys". "Well I was afraid of possibly getting in trouble with the law, so I let her go". It's complete insanity.

As for how that ended... .

Police actually let her drive away drunk!  I asked why.  I then said ok if something happens it is on you. They then pulled her over. She was almost triple the legal limit. They almost gave her a dui but somehow she got out of it. Then she returned the car.  Took an uber.  Then returned home.

[Skip]

Skip. This is what perhaps you are overlooking.

Husband321, I understand what you have said all through this thread. I have read carefully. I have been encouraging you to consider other ways of looking at your beliefs and experiences.  Hope that wasn't frustrating. 

[wendydarling]

This thread has reached its posting limit, and is therefore locked. Please feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread. Thanks for your participation.