And The Meek Shall Inherit The Earth

[Turkish]

The exact quote is from Matthew 5:5: Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. I think of the Rush song 2112 

I'm a meek guy,  I admit it.  Peacemaker, hates conflict. At 6'2" and 265 lbs at my "fighting weight," benching 3 plates and boxing,  I didn't project "meek" but that was 4 years ago.  I've let myself go. 

Today at lunch with my ex and the kids I had to hear how I did wrong at the kids' sporting event yesterday.  I didn't advocate to save a space at our table during the BBQ. I let another parent cut in line at the pot-luck "the other parents were looking at you wondering why you did that," she said. 

"I had to be the mean one to secure our seats and the other mother rolled her eyes at me."

Maybe I am too nice.  I didn't think it a big deal to let the guy cut. But I could have told him about the line. Maybe I am too much of a nice guy? My ex used to say that she felt more life "the man" in our r/s. "Being an aggressive jerk?" Is what I used to think when she said that. 

I stepped up when our daughter was likely molested by my ex's teen brother; my ex failed to protect our kids.  It would be a low blow to bring that up now.  Her criticisms still bug me.

She maybe had a point today. Conflicting values on how to handle things? Maybe. 

Maybe I'm too nice and she has a valid point as well. 

[CryWolf]

Nothing wrong with chivalry and doing right. 

Sometimes people don't understand others, and how they have a big heart. I am like this. I love making people smile, and its even set me back sometimes as in got me late for something, or put me behind in finances. But nothing too drastic like going in debt. Nothing beats the feeling of making someone else's day.

There is a difference between being nice, and a pushover. I had to learn from my past relationship to not be a doormat. stand my ground and not tolerate less than i deserve. but of course we all tolerate things to a certain extent. Somethings are worth putting pride and ego aside.

I used to have a problem where people called me an intimidating ass in high school. Then I had a long time people called me a "nice guy' and how im too nice and thats why i get my heart broken Its annoying being told what you are and arent.

Take it all with a grain of salt, and if you truly think its affecting you, watch some youtube videos on "stop being a nice guy" or "be an alpha male" and pick up what they teach.

Honestly, be the best version of yourself.

My exBPD told me at times "your not man enough". This ___ing hurt me so bad. I questioned my manhood. I questioned if i was too sensitive. I did cry a lot when she would belittle me. I am a lover not a fighter. I am a very compassionate person. I love to give lots of affection and love to those I love. But looking bad she probably was self projecting.

Im sorry about your daughter. I have no idea what that must have felt like as a father.

Dont let criticism affect you. My ex would say how i couldnt save money, or how i had no work ethic, or how i couldnt this or that or etc. Always finding something. And for a long time I thought she was right. I stopped eating my fave food places because she would chastise me for eating there. It ___ing sucked having to lie what I ate just so i wouldnt hear her start something for me eating somewhere that she thinks is "americanized" or terrible.

Never change yourself to seek approval from someone else. I did this, and I became someone i didnt recognize. its one of the worst feelings a person can feel.

[Fie]

Hello Turkish 

I used to really dislike it when people cut the line. Most of the time, I'd react to it. I guess it made me feel non existent, like everyone could just push me over.

Now I have noticed that it's just so much easier to pick my battles. Why react to such a silly thing. If someone is in a hurry/impolite, it's his problem. Why should I get enervated, and make it mine.

I like to be in the company of people who think like that, too. They give me a good example of how to take life more easy. To not react to every little thing.

I don't think it's being too nice. It's just letting little things slide. Life is full of little annoyances. We do not have to react to little things. It's like trafic isn't it ? I live near a big city where trafic is crazy. I used to get nervous. It has happened I got out of the car  :-)  (which is a really bad idea safety wise I guess). Now I practically do not recognize myself in that anymore. There is no way I would get so carried away anymore. Life is difficult enough as it is, no ?

[MeandThee29]

It's fine to let go of a lot of little things. As one of my favorite quotes says, everyone is fighting some kind of battle. I personally don't stress about line-cutting, reserving tables, etc. etc. like you. I don't need to assert myself that way.

Standing up for true injustice is another matter.

As long as you make the difference, I don't see a problem.

[CryWolf]

You also can’t blame yourself for the actions of someone else. Like why they did something and dwell why you didn’t do something. That will eat you inside, and fester over time. I use to stay up at night and build scenarios on things I could have done differently in situations all through my life. Not healthy at all

[Turkish]

She said she thought about saying something but that she knew she had already profiled herself (as being involved in conflict) at the dojo.  At least she has limits.

[Enabler]

Why wasn't the lazy wench in the line getting you the food, like a good woman... .then when she returned with your heap of scran you could pat her on the rear and say cheers sweet cheeks.

Come on Turkish, man the f up, get some balls and make the bit of tail serve you like the reeeeeeeeeeeeal man you are.

Now who's defining masculinity?

 

[Turkish]

Lol.  She was in line too.

[zachira]

It sounds like your ex wife is a very unhappy person and she is looking to get under your skin in any way she can. When possible, it might be better to let the criticism just roll off you. My BPD mother never stops criticizing everybody and it is all about how unhappy she is as a person that she has to make everyone else unhappy. I am always challenged to not take her mean criticism to heart, because after all she is my mother. You would think after all the good things you have done, including being the best father you can be to your children, that your ex would show you some respect and kindness. Continue to be a good role model to your children by showing how to respond to her mean criticism, as she is likely doing the same to your children.

[Enabler]

Lol.  She was in line too.

Was that for your manly second helping?

[JNChell]

There is nothing wrong with being a nice person. I’ve become quite bitter over the last decade, and am working on becoming the nice person that I once was. The world needs nice people with intelligence.

Turkish, you are a very strong person and a beacon here. I’m amazed at how you can interact with your ex after what she has put you through. I would like to get there some day, but it feels impossible. I’m terrified of my ex. Don’t take her words to heart. It’s likely projection.

You bring a lot of hope to these boards. Thank you.

[Turkish]

@zachira

In her way she tried to be nice about it.  This is often how she communicates.  I read a book whose author thought that BPD should be renamed Fault Finding Personality Disorder.

Finding faults was what drove her husband out to sleep in his car and stay at the gym until later (the kids told me this) until he blew up, she ended up punching him hard and that was the beginning of their steep downhill dissolution.  I think some people have difficulty seeing themselves accurately how others might view them.

[Insom]

Lol.  She was in line too.

 

My guess is that this is her insecurity rearing its head.  Organized kiddo events can feel stressful even for emotionally balanced moms.  Could it be the BBQ raised some intense, uncomfortable feelings in her and she reacted by lashing out at you?  Strong move is to "radically" accept that she is insecure and not accept the blame.

It sounds to me like you behaved with grace. 

[MeandThee29]

@zachira

In her way she tried to be nice about it.  This is often how she communicates.  I read a book whose author thought that BPD should be renamed Fault Finding Personality Disorder.

LOL. Mine kept ongoing lists of my faults, which is a bit off for someone you supposedly love.

Honestly, I figure that everyone is a mess. It's amazing that any of us get along and get things done.

Naturally there are things to be picky about. Recently I picked up a grocery order that had something in it that I can't eat that I found when I got home. It's an easy mistake because the products come from the same company and are side-by-side. The next time I was in the area, I returned it and got what I wanted. I know people who are so laid back that they would just toss the mistake. Nope. I wanted what I paid for.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Turkish,  It does sound like you handled the outing with grace.  You seem to be a great role model for your kids and it probably takes a lot of courage just to get together with your ex, but you seem to take it in stride and do what’s best for your kids.

My husband used to complain that I let people walk all over me.  Because I let people who were in a hurry get ahead of me in traffic or in a line and small things with little or no consequence to me.  It is more unhealthy to react and take offense at every little perceived slight. 

I live in a very large city with lots and lots of traffic and long ago I decided that if people passed me or cut into my lane they must be in a bigger hurry than me.  I imagined that they had to get to work, or had a sick child, etc.  You never know, so why not err on the side of kindness and it didn’t cost me anything.

I will say no to people if I need to.  For example, once a neighbor called at 10:30 one night and asked if I would dog sit for them while they went on vacation leaving the next day.  I already had too many responsibilities and always made arrangements for my dog way ahead of time.  So I had no problem saying no.

I like the verse from the Beatitudes that you quoted.  I learned those as a child and they have stuck.  I’m a peacemaker and consider it one of my greatest assets.  Keep up the good work, Turkish.

Peace and blessings, Mustbe

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Turkish, Don't beat yourself up, and Don't sweat the small stuff!  You did nothing wrong in my view so there's no need to second guess yourself.  Just be yourself and do what you think is right, which includes letting someone cut in at the BBQ.  Who cares?  Only a pwBPD would bring it up.  She's your Ex; you no longer answer to her, my friend, so let it go and get on with your life apart from her.

LuckyJim

[Tobiasfunke]

Ef that talk Turkish. You are a better person for letting the guy get in line and not making a big scene about it. These days everyone is so quick to yell and fight about the dumbest BS.
Your EX like mine IS an Aggressive Jerk who Blames her behavior on you for not being one. And you are correct she will bring that up and hundreds of other inconsequential examples of YOU not fulfilling your role as a father or husband or not protecting your kids, When we both know the most harm done to the children by far has been by the mother self centeredness,  lack of awareness, lack of self control and selfishness. They are troubled and ill. It’s a tough disorder and it hurts the entire family but don’t let it plant seeds of doubt in your mind. You are a strong father who will be the rock for your kids as they grow up and they will see that as they mature and they will appreciate how patient you were to their mother. And they will be compassionate to difficult people in their lives and they will know how to avoid them in relationships because you will be there to help them. You are stronger than any of these challenges that you run into. We will be here to remind you of that.

[Jeffree]

Her criticisms still bug me.

I hear you there, brother. I think for me, what ultimately hurts about it is that hollow feeling not being mirrored or supported leaves during the criticism or denials or lack of accountability or just about anything that comes out of the mouth of a pwBPD when they've painted us black. It is really destructive and sends me reeling for some sound footing afterward.

This is one of the ways in which therapy can be helpful. It can provide much of the support and understanding we do not receive from our pwBPD.

For instance, you could say, "What a great BBQ that was! The food was so good and the kids had a great time!"

Meanwhile, your pwBPD could say, "Ugh! It would have been a great time, if you didn't let that person skip the line. You're such a whimp!"

Even if she said, "Your're too nice a guy." That would be a more helpful, though backwards, kind of mirror. But no... .she has to go right to the worst attack over the dumbest thing all the time.

I think many of us could coexist in a neutral place with our pwBPD, if they could ever stop negating us and the our experience of the shared moments. It's really insidious.

J

[Lucky Jim]

Ef that talk Turkish. You are a better person for letting the guy get in line and not making a big scene about it. These days everyone is so quick to yell and fight about the dumbest BS.  Your EX like mine IS an Aggressive Jerk who Blames her behavior on you for not being one.

Well said, Tobiasfunke!  Thanks for putting it into words.  LJ

[Turkish]

Jeffree,

Pointing out how differently she views the world is interesting.  To this day,  I don't know what to make of what she tells me about how her mom and family guilt her about his she deals with our kids.  This goes to how she perceives how she thinks others view her. 

Others? Even my BPD mom when she lived with us and passively aggressively criticized my parenting? It bugged me but ultimately I don't give a crap and trust myself.  I do bounce things off of whom I deem healthy people. 

I told the line story to a buddy at work.  He disagreed with me.  Then he told me about a recent road rage incident. 

He didn't know what he did but a driver got on his tail and was making gestures, honking.  They happened to take the same exit. He rolled down his passenger window and yelled,  "pull off! You and me right now buddy!" He said that the guy kept looking forward and the guy's wife was talking to her H. They took off with no incident. 

My buddy has two misdemeanors on his record. The first from his likely BPD ex wife when he answered his door and she attacked him,  leaving marks on him but they were both charged with mutual assault.  She is a big woman.  I'll give him that. 

The second was after the divorce when he saw his lawyer,  who was horrible and he lost a lot of money and custody time of his son in the 90s. He saw him in a grocery store and confronted him by yelling in the lawyer's face. The lawyer threw the first punch,  but yelling on someone's face can be assault.  He was later convicted of assault.

I totally got his anger,  but he also was responsible for his behaviors. To this day,  he kind of regrets doing that,  but only because he was convicted.

Two years ago I called out a guy for cutting in line at home depot.  He didn't know better,  but he threatened to kick my ass... .while with his 7 year old daughter. Maybe I looked mean (I had my mirrored Oakleys on). I could tell by his language and demeanour that need likely done time in prison.  I really didn't mean to offend.  He walked away muttering his he'd kick my ass while his daughter looked at me confused. Poor girl.  Then I thought I was standing up for myself but almost got into a fight 

Funny thing: I was with my ex and the kids doing miniature golf last year. She blew by a hole.  I said "too angry!" She laughed.  I took my shot and fell short. She gleefully said,  "too soft!" I did have to laugh. 

[BeagleGirl]

I just want to comment that it takes far more strength to control oneself than it does to control others. I greatly admire people who have the strength of character to CHOOSE rather than react.

[Cromwell]

if this was a line for the last loaf of bread during the depth of a recession, she might have had an argument. Turns out she doesnt. Just a low-ball attempt to make you question your masculinity.

[BeagleGirl]

Turkish,
I'm finding a common theme rising in this thread and your Father's Day Dilemma thread.  It seems to me that you are still looking into some distorted mirrors as you seek to figure out who you are.

The search to understand who you are, what role you played in your relationship, what role you are playing in your children's lives, and what role you want to play in any future relationships is key to your healing.  I see you doing just that, and it's inspiring.  As an outside observer, I hear you using words like "waif" to describe yourself and I worry that you are allowing your view of yourself to be influenced by your ex and her family. 

The past few years have given me the opportunity (necessity) of figuring out who I am.  One thing I've learned is that everyone holds a mirror up to me, reflecting what they see.  Some of those mirrors are small and only show a small portion of me.  Some are smudged with the stuff their holder has touched them with.  Some are incredibly distorted "fun house" style mirrors.  My own mirror has its own smudges and distortions. 

I have spent an incredible amount of time and energy trying to fix things about myself that only existed in the mirror I was looking into.  The problem is that you can never wipe the smudge off the mirror by cleaning the part of your body that is reflected in that smudge.  Eventually you start hiding that part of yourself.  You start standing awkwardly to compensate for the distortion in the mirror.  You start thinking that the mirrors that more accurately reflect you are the ones that are distorted.

I am working on cleaning and straightening out my own mirror, but in the meantime I'm looking to surround myself with people who have better mirrors.  I have a therapist who is trained to keep a clean mirror and point out distortions.  I have friends who don't have a ton of distortions in their mirrors and are willing to take a swipe at what may be a smudge on their mirror as readily as to offer me a tissue to wipe the spot off of my body.  I have had perfect strangers hold up mirrors that show something beautiful and learned to not discount them or think they are angled towards someone behind me. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope you are being careful about what mirrors you look into.  Until you are a bit more sure that you know yourself well enough to recognize distortions, it may be best to avoid certain "mirrors". 

BG

[Harri]

I really like what BeagleGirl is saying about mirrors here. Don't let the reactions/responses and distortions of others define you.  The guy in the line in home depot?  Reminds me of your ex... .insecure and ready to fight even when the fight only exists in their mind. 

I can understand why you might take pause in pointing out that someone is cutting the line after that though.  Where do we draw the line?  Speaking up or not doing so in concern of what might happen?  I don't know to be honest.  Try to shout out validating statements and using SET while running for your life?   

 

[Turkish]

Two beagles too much! 

Turkish,
I'm finding a common theme rising in this thread and your Father's Day Dilemma thread.  It seems to me that you are still looking into some distorted mirrors as you seek to figure out who you are.

The search to understand who you are, what role you played in your relationship, what role you are playing in your children's lives, and what role you want to play in any future relationships is key to your healing.  I see you doing just that, and it's inspiring.  As an outside observer, I hear you using words like "waif" to describe yourself and I worry that you are allowing your view of yourself to be influenced by your ex and her family. 

Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious to me.  I thought I had moved past this,  but apparently I still with the mirrors. 

When my ex and I were "friend" dating, we were going on a long drive.  My shades fogged up so I held them in front of the heater vents.  She told me over a year later that in the moment she viewed that as me being a dork, but it also endeared her to me,  that I was willing to be odd not caring what she thought of me ( here,  but that's another discussion). I think part of what attracted her to me was that I didn't care what others thought of me; or more correctly,  that I wasn't anxious and self- conscious as she was and still is. 

I'm not boorish, crude or rude, but I really couldn't give a rip off what others think of me.  And yet here I struggle with it in this case.

I'm Facebook friends with one ex-BIL. I saw him post a photo of his dad today.  He's much younger than his 3 eldest siblings,  so didn't witness the beatings and cheatings, though he is aware of it.  He was away at university when their dad's last affair was exposed.  I know it was hurtful to the kids.  They were all urging their mom to leave him finally.  Part of my ex's break was resenting her mom for not doing that, especially after years of being her mom's "counselor." Here I feel for my ex and I all so regarding that. 

I'm the single child of a single parent.  I can't really comprehend these dynamics. I did fault him at all for failing to protect my daughter; that was grandma's job.  But I would have felt like a hypocrite for honoring him,  even though when I see him I am still respectful. In some ways my ex has gotten over things with respect to their dad more than her younger sister who all lives there.  He's good to the kids and they love him as grandpa.  A lot of this is cultural too.

Now I can breathe.  Thanksgiving is the kids with me this year, but I have nowhere to go. I'll get another invite and I'll have to determine what's best for me and the kids.  Two years ago it was just the three of us only 3 miles away from them.  Christmas will be with her.  I'll get another invite even if I don't have the kids,  but I'll deal with that when it comes. 

[spacecadet]

Hi Turkish, you sound like a gem. I agree with what someone said "pick your battles." Intense people are sometimes better off with more mellow easy-going types. Plus doubtful that "all the parents were looking at you wondering... ." Most people don't pay that much attention, and anyway if someone else is bugged in a social situation it's up to them to speak up.

What would happen if next time your ex gets on your case about being more confrontational your rejoinder was, You're so right. Get off my back.  Oh right. Potentially a major skirmish.  . Maybe just give her "the look."

I can only imagine the complexities of co-parenting with someone like this.

[Turkish]

What would happen if next time your ex gets on your case about being more confrontational your rejoinder was, You're so right. Get off my back.  Oh right. Potentially a major skirmish.  . Maybe just give her "the look."

Good one! I might use it next time. 

Two years ago I invited her to play miniature golf with the kids.  She totally blew a shot way past the hole.  I quipped, "too angry!" I followed up with a shot that fell way short. She smirked,  "too soft!" I had to laugh. We were both right.