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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Is this charming?  (Read 559 times)
PearlPark

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« on: July 26, 2018, 03:39:21 AM »

Hey there guys.

Just a quick question. I received a message from my ex which I thought was kind of odd.

I've become much more clear headed in my thinking and more aware of BPD that I think that her message was a form of charming. Trying to get a response. I just find it odd that a month ago she stated she hated me. Now I find this and I'm not sure how to feel.
I'd like to add that I have maintained the NC and just ignored the message.

"I'm sorry.  I'm sorry I ruined your life.  I'm sorry I destroyed you.  I'm sorry you ever met me. I'm sorry you wasted so much on me.  I wasn't worth it and I'm still not.
I hope you use your hatred towards me to find someone better and more worthy.
I'm sorry for not staying.  I'm sorry.
Goodbye."

I'd also like to add that this is the second time she has said goodbye. "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"-Inigo Montoya
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Shawnlam
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 06:47:31 AM »

Hi there,
  Well her message at the time she wrote it was probably in her way very true.It can also be her attempt at a response or reconnect but regardless I don’t think she’s lying to you.If you have read up on BPD you will know that feelings and emotions are facts , so as they feel they express.
    The important part out of all this is what are you going to do with the situation at hand? Only you can answer how this is gonna go,respond or not?Just remember and expect that a response will surely trigger more dialogue, are you prepared for that?
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PearlPark

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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 09:38:36 AM »

I don't think at all that she's lying to me. It's just a very odd feeling for me to have someone show such emotion fluctuation. I know it's typical behaviour for pwBPD to be hot one second, then to be cold.

I think it's a little confusing for me, because I am still healing from our breakup and I still have a lot of these feelings for her. So for her to go from 'I hate you' to 'I'm sorry' isn't surprising, but just very confusing.
Because a part of me want's to reach out, but I know I can't go through all of that pain again.

I'll continue to keep the NC. Only very extreme circumstances will need to occur for me to break it.
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juju2
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 10:09:57 AM »

Hi Pearl,
So you are doing NC to heal from this r/s and you are not interested in a recycle.

Maybe you could explain your NC purpose.  If you want.

I am low contact w my s.o.  we are separated.
Thank you very much, j
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Shawnlam
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 10:12:46 AM »

It’s enormously tuff to stay away as their personalities are extremely intoxicating the ups and downs play very heavily on the brain chemical regulations (dopamine,seratonin) etc... .I’ve found the best possible place to be with or without them is in your own world.What I mean is simply focus on yourself and your stuff.It allows for a regular flow of normal feelings coming out of you,a controllable proper mindset that keeps you regular on the emotional spectrum .Easier said than done but very doable with practice.It oddly seems to somewhat regulate their behaviors as well when your are solid and quiet, not reactive just being yourself regardless of their poking.Ive come to see that it’s almost like they push and test hoping you trigger and when they get nothing , they simply seem to regulate back down to their normal state.Tricky business but I completely understand your stance on remaining NC.The healing can take sometime , what kind of things are you doing to help yourself get through this?Do you have a good network of people to help you ? Therapy ? Hobbies?
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RomanticFool
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 01:09:34 PM »

Hi Pearl,

It seems to me that your ex's message is coming from a place of self-hatred. For whatever reason she is feeling down on herself and her message is rooted in her own lack of self worth.

When you have BPD, your sense of self is typically unstable. Sometimes you may feel good about yourself, but other times you hate yourself, or even view yourself as evil. You probably don’t have a clear idea of who you are or what you want in life. As a result, you may frequently change jobs, friends, lovers, religion, values, goals, and even sexual identity.

I am very familiar with this type of message from my ex uBPD lover. During break ups she would often send me messages outlining how she is a terrible person and how I am better off without her. These would usually be preceeded by angry messages blaming me for everything that went wrong. The thinking of a pwBPD is very black and white because their emotional life is so volatile. What is unusual about this message is that she has apologised. I have never known my ex to apologise for anything, however outrageous. It seems your ex may have some self knowledge or may simply be experiencing emotional volatility on a particular day. I found my ex to be very changeable and often she would declare how awful her life was - not surprising since she suffers from a major depressive illness also. On another day it would be less awful, but rarely did she ever say she was feeling good. Her default state was usually a negative.

It has been said to me on this board many times, that even if my ex attacked me or was in despair and blamed me, the likelihood is that I would have very little to do with how she is feeling in reality. An emotional crisis in my ex could be triggered with an argument with one of her children or her husband or just a bad day where she is down on herself. Very little of anything she felt was directly attributable to me, unless I was doing something to trigger her abandonment issues (which I probably did frequently to be fair to her).

How was your ex's emotional life when you were with her? How were you affected by her?
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Mutt
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2018, 02:41:02 PM »

"I'm sorry.  I'm sorry I ruined your life.  I'm sorry I destroyed you.  I'm sorry you ever met me. I'm sorry you wasted so much on me.  I wasn't worth it and I'm still not.
I hope you use your hatred towards me to find someone better and more worthy.
I'm sorry for not staying.  I'm sorry.
Goodbye."

I think that you're getting this because you are sticking to NC this sounds like she's desperate. Have you done NC in the past? Is the first time that you have cut all communication with her?

You just said that you got a message when I first read your post I thought that you had not heard from her in a month, how many messages has she sent to you overall in the last few weeks? Are you asking us because the tone is different in this particular message?
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2018, 03:19:01 PM »

I got plenty of sorrys, its just a shame that they ended up being hot air. The same stuff she apologised for she eventually just did again, or worse.

So I would stay thinking there was some form of remorse, but all that it did was keep me in place to become victim to the next piece of drama.

One of the main reasons I wont go back - for an apology to mean anything it has to involve my ex actually appreciating the level of hurt she caused, beyond that a glib sorry or a sorry in the form of prose you got (I dont see it charming or about you specifically) its still about her and stuff like "i ruined your life", "i destroyed you" - theres not much empathy there - its just black and white extreme thinking, rooted in whatever mood she was in when she wrote it.
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Starfire
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2018, 09:54:29 PM »

Ugh.  My ex used "I'm sorry you hate me" many times, most recently about 8 weeks ago.  It has nothing at all to do with how I'm feeling.  It has everything to do with what he's feeling.  When he says that, I know he's going through something and expects me to bolster him up to get through it.  He wants to hear me say "I don't hate you."  Because in his mind, if I don't hate him then obviously I deeply love him.

What he could never understand is how inflammatory I found this.  Not only does he not get to tell me how I feel, but he certainly does not get to apologize for how I feel.  My feelings are mine.  They belong to me.

So, to answer your question, no it isn't charming.  It's manipulative.  Another excellent reason to maintain NC.
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Zemmma
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2018, 08:48:59 AM »

Starfire! Yes. That is another excellent example of something weird that I noticed in my relationship. Him telling me how I feel. I used to speak out against it. He would try to take both sides of the argument assuming he knew how I felt. He was ALWAYS wrong. So frustrating. I had to speak to him like a child, begging him to stop telling me how I felt. I told him he can't do that. He has to take responsibility for his feelings, and I can claim mine. It was so invalidating.

PearlPark, the note. First of all did you ever tell your ex that she "ruined your life?" or "destroyed you?" That you have "hatred" for her? I guess I'd personally be a little happy to know that my ex acknowledged the impact of his actions. But at the same time it seems extreme and presumptuous unless you had used those words to describe the effects of the relationship or breakup on you.

I feel the "goodbye" is meant to trigger you. I think it is said to make you panic into the action of contacting her. It is steeped in finality, and it is triggering. Whenever my ex used that word I would feel desperate. It's salt in the wound when you are already broken up. Not necessary if you are NC. You hurting? Let me dig in a little deeper. Feel pain! It will show me I mean something!

And the sorry's. Not really feeling that they are terribly connected to you. The self-loathing is there, but I agree that note is all about her and none about you. I would feel empty if I got this.

The note is vague. And she may not be lying but is she being completely honest? Does she really want you to go find someone else who is better than her?

I think she is writing down all of these loose assumptions (that you hate her, that you wish you had never met her, etc.) because she wants you to correct her. "No! I don't regret meeting you! It was the best! You are my one! I would never regret the time we shared together! Of course I can never find someone better than you! Of course you were worth all of my time and all the heartbreak you caused! You are worthy!"

Yup. Not charming in my view. Just fishing for a fix from you. You are strong to not respond. It is hard because you let the moment go and may later feel panic for not walking through an open door. But this is a situation where you really aren't being offered anything at all. This note doesn't require a response. She wrote it for herself and not for you. She didn't stop and sit and consider how this might affect you. Did she think it might help you somehow to receive it? What has she said in there to make you feel better? I think NC is a good response...
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PearlPark

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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2018, 09:18:37 AM »


Hey juju

I began NC around about late March, early April when it was obvious to me she was moving onto the second replacement. A couple of days later it became official.
I started it because I was beginning to think more clearly as I was being medicated for anxiety disorder.
I realised how much she was using me and hurting me during the time of her first replacement. The way she talked about him made me feel like she was trying to convince herself he was a great guy. Some of the things she shared with me was inconsiderate, hurtful and just plain sadistic.
I didn't want to go another round with guy no. 2.

I'm still struggling to get over her, there's still this feeling inside me that hopes that we get back together. However I have the strength and clarity to say that I won't unless certain things occur, like her getting the help she needs for one.

what kind of things are you doing to help yourself get through this?Do you have a good network of people to help you ? Therapy ? Hobbies?

Hi Shawnlam

It can be very tough to push through these feelings. I've been to therapy before for other mental issues, but started therapy about a month before she left me. I had been seeing him regularly up until march when I started going every 2 weeks. I'm now going every 3 and if I ever need an emergency venting session, I have resources here in my country to call a couple of different organisations to talk to a therapist for free.
I have a couple of friends, but because of anxiety and social shyness, I haven't got a good support network. But my family is incredibly strong. Without my parents, my aunts and my cousins, I don't think I would be feeling as well as I am now.

How was your ex's emotional life when you were with her? How were you affected by her?

Hey RomanticFool

Your analysis of her words are very much the same as mine. She has a lot of guilt and self hatred centred around herself. She has been abandoned, hurt, abused mentally, physically and sexually that it has grown a seed of darkness within her heart.
The way she was treated during her childhood has left this ingrained sense of self hatred. "How can I be worth anything if this is how I've been treated".

About a month before this message, she lashed out at me on her blog, after she found out my family and friends had deleted her off of their FB. Every line started with 'I hate you' with 25 lines of different reasons why. All it told me is that she was feeling hurt, self loathing and sadness. Those words cut me deep, but they didn't affect me as much, because I could understand where it came from. I ended up just feeling sad for her and hoped that she got better.

Her apologising to me isn't all too surprising to me. She's an incredibly intelligent person and has shown signs of being empathetic. When we were together, her BPD wasn't severe at the time. I've come to a theory that the extreme stress that we both went through last year, triggered it to become severe. Like her behaviour was deteriorating rapidly, which I attribute to the fact we both thought she was going to die. After she split me black, she left me, which left a great big hole in her. My T explained to me that she will continue to build bridges over the hole, by replacing me, when what she really needs is to fill it, like I have been doing.
So our breakup was like the final straw for her BPD, as it started to get even more worse. It was awful the way she treated me during those months. It was like I was talking to a completely different person. I got to see only glimpses of the person I knew and it broke my heart that the person I once knew was gone.

I don't deny that the BPD was there during our relationship, but it was subdued and mild. She dealt with a lot of mental illnesses and trauma that really put a strain our relationship. But I tried incredibly hard to accommodate her and look after her when she had episodes. Days where she wouldn't listen to anyone telling her she was pretty, or good enough or that she was a good person. There were days where she couldn't speak because she was experiencing PTSD flashbacks.
She had a lot of empathy for someone with BPD, but there were times where her rationality and empathy went out the window. In those moments it took her some time to realise she was wrong and apologise. Those times it always took her at most, 3 days, usually a whole day.

This time it took her almost a year that maybe she might be wrong.

Have you done NC in the past? Is the first time that you have cut all communication with her?
how many messages has she sent to you overall in the last few weeks? Are you asking us because the tone is different in this particular message?

Hey there Mutt

Since I went NC, I received multiple messages from her that have decreased in frequency as time passed. The first couple of weeks after NC, she messaged me every day. She was so confused as to why I just suddenly cut her off. She even asked me, to which I responded that I needed space and time. A couple of weeks later my mother tells me that she had messaged her, wishing her a happy mothers day as well as a way to find out how I was doing. I do believe it was partly out of genuine concern for me. A couple of weeks after that she messaged me again asking about something to which I kept it brief and cordial. A day later she messaged me again asking why my Friends and family had deleted her off FB. I told her idk and the conversation starting taking a turn for the worst. I kept my cool and was mature throughout, whereas she was accusatory and projecting everything onto me. She soon vented these feelings onto her blog. A week later she wasn't appreciating the posts I was reblogging, sending me another hate filled message. She blocked me on some SM accounts to force me to unfollow her. I soon found out she had unblocked me as I accidentally at the time refollowed her.
Lastly, the one before this one, was sent the beginning of this month. It was one sentence and I believe it was her just showing me that she saw all the things I had sent her on this particular account that I thought she had deleted. Because she deleted it, I thought it would be cathartic to send her dead account how I felt. dumb move.
This is where she sent me the most recent one.

I would say I've maintained my NC since starting, only engaging when necessary. The bulk of her messages I've refrained from engaging.

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PearlPark

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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2018, 03:47:22 AM »

Starfire!
First of all did you ever tell your ex that she "ruined your life?" or "destroyed you?" That you have "hatred" for her? I guess I'd personally be a little happy to know that my ex acknowledged the impact of his actions. But at the same time it seems extreme and presumptuous unless you had used those words to describe the effects of the relationship or breakup on you.

I feel the "goodbye" is meant to trigger you. I think it is said to make you panic into the action of contacting her. It is steeped in finality, and it is triggering. Whenever my ex used that word I would feel desperate. It's salt in the wound when you are already broken up. Not necessary if you are NC. You hurting? Let me dig in a little deeper. Feel pain! It will show me I mean something!

And the sorry's. Not really feeling that they are terribly connected to you. The self-loathing is there, but I agree that note is all about her and none about you. I would feel empty if I got this.

The note is vague. And she may not be lying but is she being completely honest? Does she really want you to go find someone else who is better than her?

I think she is writing down all of these loose assumptions (that you hate her, that you wish you had never met her, etc.) because she wants you to correct her. "No! I don't regret meeting you! It was the best! You are my one! I would never regret the time we shared together! Of course I can never find someone better than you! Of course you were worth all of my time and all the heartbreak you caused! You are worthy!"

Yup. Not charming in my view. Just fishing for a fix from you. You are strong to not respond. It is hard because you let the moment go and may later feel panic for not walking through an open door. But this is a situation where you really aren't being offered anything at all. This note doesn't require a response. She wrote it for herself and not for you. She didn't stop and sit and consider how this might affect you. Did she think it might help you somehow to receive it? What has she said in there to make you feel better? I think NC is a good response...


Hey there Zemma
I have indeed said to her how the breakup had destroyed me. Before NC and before seeking help for my anxiety, I took all the blame. I truly believed it was all my fault, whereas today I can say that it wasn't fully my fault. I played my part, but that doesn't mean I'm wholly responsible for the failure of our relationship. She chose to leave, believing that her sense of love was gone due to my actions. Love isn't just a feeling, it's a choice, a commitment and a whole lot more.

We were both young and it can take a long time for anyone to understand that.

I think the reason behind her believing how I'm doing is that I wasn't doing well before I went NC. She could see and hear how I was doing, as well as me telling her I wasn't doing well.
I also believe her seeing all the things I've blogged (even though she doesn't follow me anymore, I'm very certain she still lurks) has also helped her form an opinion of my wellbeing. I've posted a lot of content on there since NC of heartbreak and what I feel and think. Initially she didn't like it at all, retaliating vehemently with hatred.
It was obvious to me that it struck a nerve deep down, like holding up a mirror and she didn't like what she saw.

This message screams to me that she is experiencing a low point and seeing all those posts has made her guilt rise to the surface.

Not only that I'm very certain that her moods swings are worse than ever. I saw her instagram story of where she had streaks of mascara down her cheeks, eating a whole pot of mac n cheese and just toast. "Welcome to my bathtub, this is what lifes like when you turn 21"
It's her birthday today. Then another one posted 2 hours later with her current BF/FP happy as ever "I've made it bitches."

 
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