Struggling to detach, first contact in 5 months

[OrionLeonardo]

Hi all,
Behaviourally and externally I am doing well.

I do not look at any of his social media. Mostly because I know that would be painful.

When I saw him both times I ducked my head and turned a corner, kept walking, didn't look back.

INTERNALLY however... .another story.

It feels like a bit of an obsession. In my head it is almost as though we are still together. I have not distanced emotionally from him. He is still very close.

As I said, when I actually see him I don't linger.

This is progress from previous breakups because I used to have the fanciful idea that if I found him or saw him in person, it was enough to bring him back.

plus now I have been so wounded by him, I don't know if I could overcome any of it for very long. It is not a high quality relationship. I couldn't love him more but our relationship is dysfunctional.

It is not the right relationship to make him happy- if there is any relationship at all that could.

So I'll keep doing what I'm doing. And my plan is to give it a good 2 years.
 
But I want to give myself a shot at a life without him. A chance to be happy and free of him so that maybe I can experience a relationship that has not only love and passion, but also trust and consistency. I want to promise myself NC for 2 years to see where I am after that time has passed.

I figure, if after 2 years I still have not recovered, and still think he is the love of my life, and the only one for me, then maybe, and only then can I consider having him in my life in some capacity. But until then, NC, try to recover in all the ways everyone suggests.

I guess my question is this. How do I get him to seem more distant?

He is so close to me emotionally.
 
But if I feel like that, I have to remind myself of all of the other bull---- that came along with it.

Reading it consolidates my decision to stay silent. It helps me feel better about the fact that we are apart.

But it also keeps him close... maybe...

But, his words, even the bad ones may keep him close.

Or maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe its just like the grief of death. It just rolls over you and you just have to do whatever feels right in any moment to get through it until the pain and memory finally fades... ?

I am trying to give it 2 years regardless. I just hate to think he has moved on while for me it is all still present and alive in my head.

Zemma

These are very profound statements. I put in bold some things I thought might be helpful.

I am proud of you for being NC. That I think is one of the best things any of us could do in regards to these relationships.

As far as romanticizing and walking routes you know he'll be on, with time, not doing those things. It's not easy. I can understand the urge to want to see them. Feeling like them seeing you will somehow bring them back to you. I have started to see those as my red flags. I don't re-read messages but I have them. I got lost in some photos the other day. My phone does this cool thing where it picks the same face out of all the pictures you have and has it's own folder. Not a good way to spend my time. It really didn't do anything but bring me down.

I could tell you many wonderful things about my ex. I could do the opposite as well. I'd like to give some suggestions for you question though. How do I get him to seem more distant?

I have done many things in an effort to do just that. The best thing I have found is Reiki. We have done cord cutting. Anger, resentment, betrayal, guilt. It helped me with talk therapy too. On that note, my therapist told me during the first month of recovering and coping that what happens is Tauma bonding. It is powerful. It sucks us in. It's them being what seems perfect then withdrawing from us until they think they will lose us, then pull us back in. I went through it for about 4 years even though the official dating was only about 10 months.

For me, what pushed my ex to push me out, was I started setting boundaries. I knew before the dating that I was not good at setting them for her. I tend to go all in, whatever you want even if I am not taking care of myself. That is one of the lessons I have had to learn from all of this. My therapist warned me that when I became more equal with her there would probably be hell to pay. I had hoped she would be wrong. Unfortunately it was worse than what even she thought would happen.

I was listening to something interesting the other day. The speaker said when things aren't going so well ask "what positive thing can I learn from this?"

So I think for disconnecting, that is a good place to start. What positive thing can you learn from this? How can you use this to help you grow as a person? What things could you work on that may prevent anyone else like this coming into your life in such a way?

There are many outlets that may help you. Meditation, writing either journaling or here, talk therapy, reiki... .The list goes on.

My hope is you find a few that work well for you and remember, when you make it through those nights you don't think you will it will make you stronger. In our weakest moments we find how strong we truely are.

  Namaste Zemma

[Zemmma]

Wow Harley Quinn! You did it again!

River of tears... .

You said some really horrible things here.And moreso because they are true.

Damn.

I hate that you have ‘t replaced that passionate love- because I feel you have been here forever. Boo. Not hopeful. Sad.

You are wise.

And maybe a better person than me. Because sometimes I wish he would hurt. Might teach him some empathy.

Argh... .anyways... .it’s all quiet now. I have no choice but to move on. And I’ve given him little choice to contact me as well. I don’t think there is anything for him to come back to. Therefore I don’t have to make a choice- but once again I will try to choose. Choose to want exactly what he has decided I get. None of him.

[Chitchat]

He just has no object constancy. Whenever I was out of his sight (and that was unfortunately a lot because of our lifestyle, he forgot who I was- he literally pictured me as bigger than I am, he'd see me and say, "Oh... you are so small... " and he pictured me as evil, "Oh, you are so pretty... "- like he was surprised). As soon as I went back to my house, even after a loving weekend, thoughts would go dark and he would struggle.

I recall a therapist describing how she identified this symptom and treated it successfully. If you can recall your caregiver, primarily the voice, you can learn self - soothing. Many could not recall their caregiver and had not learned self - soothing.

[Zemmma]

OrionLeonardo,
Thanks for the suggestions.

I know I can live without him. I know what I have learned and even how I can use it (both professionally and personally).

And I am trying to detach. It's not easy. Life was way more fun with him in it. I like how I felt having him in my life.

Slowly I can see the damage that I denied all through. But sadly, it is only when I deny the deep love I have for him that I feel okay. I have to push aside the amazing memories and feelings I had when I was with him. And sometimes they come flooding back.

I hope I can find something else in the love arena. Too much of my adult life I have lived without the kind of partner I deserve. I have to stop choosing wounded men. But who of us in not wounded? Especially at my age.

I am being so so so productive without him in my life. Just killing it. I know I will be okay. Everything I have done lately turns to gold. Seriously... All of the extra sleep I am getting! All the #$%^ I am getting done. I am a very successful and ambitious person.

But he left a really sad space. Its hard to "have it all" without a love, isn't it? I have my kids 65% of the time, and that helps. But I miss romantic love. It is a beautiful place.

Thanks to everyone for your words. What a road!

[Harley Quinn]

River of tears... .

You said some really horrible things here.And moreso because they are true.

Damn.

Sorry Zem.  

It sucks that it hurts so much.  Letting it out is good for you though.  What you need to remember is that the pain you feel now is finite, which is a vast improvement on infinite potential for more of the same.  Letting go is the hardest thing I ever did, and also the best.  I can breathe now. You can do this.  

I hate that you have ‘t replaced that passionate love- because I feel you have been here forever. Boo. Not hopeful. Sad.

I perhaps could have, had I chosen to in the last 18 months.  There have been offers, but I've intentionally not put myself on the market as I'm working on being the best me.  Some day a fine man who is worthy of the best me will cross my path.  Of that I have no doubt and I'm willing to take my time and be more choosy in future.  

Zem, there have to be passionate, interesting, fun singles on this earth who do not emotionally destroy those who love them.  Our exes may have been the best we had (and the worst), but they were only the best SO FAR.  We can be better than we were with them and by living the lives we love, following our own passions and continually growing, we will align ourselves with more suitable candidates for an emotionally healthy and sustainable relationship.    

You are wise.

Only thanks to all the mistakes I've made!

And maybe a better person than me. Because sometimes I wish he would hurt. Might teach him some empathy.

I've felt that way too.  In reality they already hurt, and that is what causes the behaviours.  They have an illness and no amount of wishing on our part will ever change that.  There comes a time to leave him to his pain and his maladaptive ways of coping with or avoiding it and stop allowing it to dictate our own emotional state.  We will help you get through this.  Give all that love to yourself Zem.  

Love and light x

[Educated_Guess]

Hi Zemma!  Thanks for sharing your story.

Getting over the idealization phase is tough.  To be loved like you are a goddess incarnate is a unique and powerful experience.  Who would want to give that up?  My own relationship with my BPD ex had many wonderful moments full of joy and laughter.  I miss those times.  I miss the sense of adventure and spontaneity.  I feel what you are saying here.

But, man, did all that stuff come with a hidden price tag!  My relationship went from no arguments and mostly fun times to total devalue and discard in less than 3 days with no explanation, no resolution.  It's like someone flipped a switch and she turned cold and full of contempt.  She also turned into quite the little sadist - I caught her with the slightest of smiles at the corner of her lips when she was telling me something she thought would really bring me down.  She wanted to punish me and did her best at accomplishing that.

How do you make sense of a change like this?  The first step for me was realizing that the idealization phase was not real.  It was a well crafted illusion.  To tell the truth, I knew this from the beginning.  Despite all the good times, I always had a feeling in my gut that something was missing.  I would question this thinking about how I could feel like something was missing when everything seemed so good.  And just like a good magician will distract you from what is really happening during a magic trick, all the idealization distracted me from that nagging feeling in my gut that something was missing.

And really I wanted to be distracted.  I wanted to believe that someone could love and adore me that much.  I needed that kind of validation from someone else because I couldn't love myself to that degree.

I'm going to tell you a story.  Hang in there - there is a point to it.

When I was about 5 years old, my mom took me to a children's magic show at the local fairgrounds.  The magician called me on stage to help with a trick. He wanted me to hold a foam ball in my hand and said he would turn it into multiple foam balls.  He put the ball in my palm and closed my hand.  He told me that he was going to speak the magic phrase and I would feel a jolt inside my hand as the ball separated.  He took my hand and knocked it on the table as he said the magic words.

"Now darlin', did you feel the jolt in your hand?" he asked as he waved his expressive hand toward the crowd.

I was confused.  I didn't feel anything inside my hand.  I knew I felt him knocking my knuckles on the table. Being quite logical and truthful even at that age, I replied with a firm "No".

The magician started sweating.  "Well, maybe you just didn't catch it the first time.  Let's try again."

As he talked to the crowd for a moment, I opened my hand and looked at the foam ball.  It wasn't a ball at all.  It was an orange foam cover for a microphone with an opening at the end.  I could see other microphone covers of different colors stuffed inside.  I realized how the trick was done and a little piece of my childhood innocence died right there on that stage.

The magician turned his attention back to me and he realized in an instant that I knew and that I was the kind of little girl that would proclaim what I know.  I could see the sweat glistening on his forehead.  His voice shaking, he said the magic words again as he knocked my hand on the table.

"Did you feel it this time?" he pleaded.   Of course I felt the same thing I felt the first time.  I looked up at him and his quivering eyes practically begged me to just play along. 

I stood in silence for a moment.  I think this was the first time in my life that I realized I could destroy someone with my words. It was a lot of existential reality for a 5 year old to take in while standing on a stage at the fairgrounds.

"Yes, I felt it," I said in a shy whisper.  I felt awful about lying.  But I also felt pity for this man who was afraid of me telling the truth.  So I played along with the magic trick. He deftly pulled out the microphone covers and showed them to the crowd.  He wasted no time in shooing me off the stage.

Every time I go to a magic show, I have to debate on whether I will pay attention to what is really happening or just relax, enjoy the show and pretend it is real.  Other magicians have called me on stage (maybe I have a gullible looking face). They have usually regretted their choice and I usually regret being a part of the illusion.

So here's the point of the story.  My BPD ex crafted a fine illusion of how much she loved me and how much that love would continue to grow for the rest of our lives.  Despite my gut feeling, I wanted to believe it and played along.  But at the end of the day, it was not storybook love.  It was not an orange ball that could magically be split into multiple balls of different colors. It was a 10 cent orange microphone cover with other microphone covers stuffed inside it.  When she thought I was beginning to see through the illusion, she wasted no time with shooing me off the stage.  Now I stand at the edge of the stage disillusioned while the show goes on without me.

The thing that was missing that my gut was screaming about was respect.  During the good times, it felt like respect and love were there.  But if she respected me, she could not have devalued and discarded me the way she did.  That is not something that you do to someone you respect.   In Randall Lang's psychological study on the experience of love and loving, he noted that his participants described love without respect as being qualitatively different than healthy love.  Even though the expressions of love seem genuine on the surface, there is a hollowness to them.

My hope for you, Zemmma, is that you see through the illusion.  Open your hand and look at what is there.  Is it what it the magician claims that it is or is it something hollow?

Once you can see through the illusion, you are better equipped to recognize what is real.  I hope you find a real, validating and respectful love in the future.

btw, are you doing your graduate work in psychology?  If so, I might have some useful research suggestions for you.

[OrionLeonardo]

I am being so so so productive without him in my life. Just killing it. I know I will be okay. Everything I have done lately turns to gold. Seriously... All of the extra sleep I am getting! All the #$%^ I am getting done. I am a very successful and ambitious person.

   Good for you. I have found myself in a much more productive place since coming somewhat out of the initial funk of it all. It's an amazing feeling!

But he left a really sad space. Its hard to "have it all" without a love, isn't it?

I think it's important to remember that WE have the love. That's part of why it is so hard. Yes, the sad space is the down side to having so much love. Just look though, look at all the love you have found here in this very open and what I find healing space.

I understand wanting romantic love. I'm with Harley on the whole thing right now. We must not jump at an offer just because it's offered. I have had a few opportunities just in the last month. I turned them down not only because I wasn't ready but also I want healthy intimacy. I honestly feel that before that person can come into my life, I need to be that intimate with myself. The old me, the one before I knew this kind of hurt, would have jumped at the offers and honestly wound up in some bad situations. As much as I could go for some mattress dancing and cuddles, making it through the night with myself has been better.

I have started singing love songs to myself. I imagine being in front of a mirror and falling in love with me. Mostly because I sing in the car and its less than safe to stare into the mirror and sing while cruising down the road. XD

Much love and healing to you 

[Zemmma]

Wow, amazing responses! Just so much care in what you have all written. Thank you!

Harley Quinn,
I read what you write, and don't even notice the tears rolling down my face. Every time. What is it with you? I think you understand so much of what I have said, and have experienced something so similar or you are super intuitive, empathic... maybe psychic...  Maybe you are "future me," here to guide me through to my better self... .ha... I can only hope to get to where you are today. Stronger. Resolved. Wiser, no matter how you protest...  I am not looking for love right now. No on-line, no usual suspects. Eyes are open but there is no one in sight. If there was I wouldn't miss him and if he had any magic at all, I wouldn't pass it up. But for now I heal alone. In silence.

Educated_Guess,
Yes, I am currently doing a doctoral degree in Counselling Psychology. I love being in school and the clinical work I am doing. If I ever navigate through this successfully I would be interested in helping people who have suffered with the specific affliction we all share. It's unique, and I have heard so many people say they would like to find a therapist who would understand what they have been through. I never, ever would have understood if I had not lived it. I could never understand why someone would remain in an abusive relationship before this man came along. I understand fully now. It's far more complex. I listen to Love the Way you Lie, (Eminem and Rihanna). I get it. You don't have to be physically abused to understand it. I get how people are hooked in. How they can't leave. Don't want to leave. The reasons they love. I have learned things I probably didn't want to know. Not sure how much of this focus would be accepted by the mainstream, academic world, but I know there are people who need help. I have learned so much about the nature of these relationships. But first heal, then help. I'm curious what you were thinking...

And the part about respect. That hits a nerve too. The way he left. That he left at all. The way he discarded without a conversation or care. Really lacking. Really cruel. He didn't try to do this kindly. He wouldn't take my call. It was a complete lack of respect. It's eye opening when I look at these facts.

Incredible story about the magician... wow. I'm not sure I am in a place where I can say it wasn't real. But there are definite holes in the story. The unexplained. If I am honest it was always there... but I'm not fully ready to see the relationship as it truly was. It means shifting some pretty firm beliefs born of my ability to trust and love. This will take time.

OrionLeanardo...
Yes. We have the love. What a thing to be stuck with! I wonder how he can forget it? He has lost us too. But I think he started forgetting long before he left. I can only worry about me now.

Must sleep! Thanks everyone, so much...

[Coastered]

. I just hate to think he has moved on while for me it is all still present and alive in my head.

I so know what you mean... .

[Educated_Guess]

Educated_Guess,
Yes, I am currently doing a doctoral degree in Counselling Psychology. I love being in school and the clinical work I am doing. If I ever navigate through this successfully I would be interested in helping people who have suffered with the specific affliction we all share. It's unique, and I have heard so many people say they would like to find a therapist who would understand what they have been through. I never, ever would have understood if I had not lived it. I could never understand why someone would remain in an abusive relationship before this man came along. I understand fully now. It's far more complex. I listen to Love the Way you Lie, (Eminem and Rihanna). I get it. You don't have to be physically abused to understand it. I get how people are hooked in. How they can't leave. Don't want to leave. The reasons they love. I have learned things I probably didn't want to know. Not sure how much of this focus would be accepted by the mainstream, academic world, but I know there are people who need help. I have learned so much about the nature of these relationships. But first heal, then help. I'm curious what you were thinking...

And the part about respect. That hits a nerve too. The way he left. That he left at all. The way he discarded without a conversation or care. Really lacking. Really cruel. He didn't try to do this kindly. He wouldn't take my call. It was a complete lack of respect. It's eye opening when I look at these facts.

Incredible story about the magician... wow. I'm not sure I am in a place where I can say it wasn't real. But there are definite holes in the story. The unexplained. If I am honest it was always there... but I'm not fully ready to see the relationship as it truly was. It means shifting some pretty firm beliefs born of my ability to trust and love. This will take time.

Hey Zemmma!  Congrats on working on your doctorate!  The mental health field needs practitioners who have experiences with the same issues that patients struggle with.  You can get all the book knowledge in the world but it's not the same as living through the experience.  It's fantastic that you want to use your experience to help others and it says a lot about the level of empathy you must have.

I was planning on pointing you to some dissertations that really helped me get through the aftermath of the break up. Unfortunately, I haven't yet been able to find a link where you can read them online.  I'll let you know if I find something.

Yes, the respect thing hit me hard too.  It was one of the things that made me see that what was really there was not what I thought it was.

It is not for me to say if the love in your relationship is real or not.  How could I possibly know?  It does take time to see what's underneath the surface.

In my relationship, I feel that my love was real - as much as I am capable of loving.  My ex's love was probably as real as it could be for her at the time.  I'm not sure exactly what love means for her.  It probably doesn't fit my understanding of love.  Maybe the love was real up until the point that I did something that triggered the fear of abandonment and the love was overwhelmed.  I'm still thinking through that. 

Where I'm at right now is that I think love is about the person - who they are.  Love is not about that person's usefulness to you.  If your bond is based on how useful they are to you, that is need, not love.  Love and need are not mutually exclusive by any means.  They can co-exist. 

I guess the difference is in how you are perceived by the person.  Are you seen and appreciated for who you are or are you an object that exists to fulfill some need or purpose?  There may have been times when my ex saw me and appreciated me for who I am.  Towards the end of the relationship, I was an object that was no longer fulfilling its purpose.

Anyway, as far as determining what is real, remember that the magician did put something real in my hand.  It just wasn't what I thought it really was or what the magician told me that it was.

[Zemmma]

Educated Guess
Not to get philosophical (ha, always) but...

I have wondered about MY love for him. And what you said about usefulness. I feel I needed him. I thought I loved him too. But I got so angry with him when he left me. And I don't feel like I want to forgive him. Until or if he says he might come back, and then I would in 2.5 seconds (useful again!). But I am unable to wish him happiness without me. So is that even love?

It seems suspiciously like the "usefulness" you are speaking of. I only want to unconditionally love him with the condition that he chooses to be with me.

I've wondered about all of this. Tied in with the co-dependency...   Somehow I can wish for happiness for people I am not as invested in or attached to but I secretly wish him gloom and doom forevermore if he maintains this rejection and abandonment of me.

Aghhh... .maybe I'm just angry and of course, under the anger is hurt.

I can analyze things to death.

Today has been hard. It's his birthday so I've been thinking of him all day. But we are six months out and I basically told him to take a hike last time he took me through one of his recycles. Somehow in the back of my head I thought he'd contact me on his birthday. Magical thinking.

He didn't call me on mine. I told him to stop contacting me and he did.

[once removed]

under the anger is hurt.

understandably. its hard to wish someone well whom has hurt us. i dont know if that necessarily begets love in the long run. do you wish him the opposite (not a trick question, most people in your circumstances might on some level)?

Today has been hard. It's his birthday so I've been thinking of him all day.

its a new day. you got through it. how ya feeling today Zemmma?

[Harley Quinn]

Sorry to hear about your tough day Zem.  As Once Removed says, you got through it and that is a milestone that you can be proud of.  Special occasions are especially difficult times.  Regular days are easier so you're in a good place now to look ahead.  Every dark cloud... .

Love and light x

[Zemmma]

Yes, thanks you two...

Of course I don't wish him harm. But I do wish he'd "see the light."

(I'm the light).     See me for who I really am. Realize that I am actually a good person, with a good heart and good intentions. Not an "evil" person he "can't trust."

He could never see past his pain enough to consider me, so I don't feel terribly guilty about how I feel. And even when I felt hurt, I never verbally attacked him or said bad things about him the way he did to me. I was always trying to preserve our relationship and make things better. I was just defending myself. Explaining myself. Trying to get him to see things logically. Trying to get him to see the love I was offering.

This fighting he said we always did... .He said we were always fighting or he was avoiding me so that we wouldn't fight.

I don't really remember much fighting at all. Just me defending myself. Over and over. And sure, probably expressing frustration over false accusations. Or talking deeply, and sometimes disagreeing.

But something would set him off when we talked. He started saying it was my tone of voice. Clever on his part, because I can't really defend that after the fact. When we talked on the phone he would hang up and focus on one thing I said and struggle the rest of the night... (emotional dysregulation). Then he'd be mad that I didn't know there was a problem. I would hang up and go to sleep because there wasn't a problem that I was aware of. Then we just stopped talking on the phone altogether.

I am okay. I made it through. He is gone. He was a bad long term plan. But I just miss him. Specifically being in his presence and talking to him. I don't miss the horrible other stuff. But I was drawn to him and would love to see him again. That's what I struggle with. Letting go.

[Educated_Guess]

Educated Guess
Not to get philosophical (ha, always) but...

I have wondered about MY love for him. And what you said about usefulness. I feel I needed him. I thought I loved him too. But I got so angry with him when he left me. And I don't feel like I want to forgive him. Until or if he says he might come back, and then I would in 2.5 seconds (useful again!). But I am unable to wish him happiness without me. So is that even love?

It seems suspiciously like the "usefulness" you are speaking of. I only want to unconditionally love him with the condition that he chooses to be with me.

Ah, Zemmma, this is a great insight!  It may not seem like it right now but you are hitting on something big here. 

I will write more (and will totally dive into some philosophy) when I am able to get back to my computer. 

In the meantime, let me say this.  Be careful not to split yourself.  There may have been times when your own emotions in the relationship were based on need more than love.  That does not make you all bad.  That doesn’t mean that your love was not real.

This just means that you are a jumble of good intentions mixed up with misguided (probably unconscious) intentions.  In other words, you are human.  Be kind and graceful with yourself.  Your ability to evaluate and question your own actions demonstrates that you are a good person and your capacity to continue growing and learning.

After all, the person who thinks he can do no wrong will see no need to continue growing and improving.