First detaching post... how did you guys accept detaching

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi everyone,

I have finally taken the plunge and moved to Detaching board.

I don't like it, I would prefer to stay on Conflicted and live in a slightly more comfortable state of denial that this relationship can not be recovered.

I say recovered, not restored, because it was never a healthy relationship and the wreckage only got larger as it progressed.

It was abusive from almost the very start. Nearly eight years ago, now.

How did you guys begin to accept that the end of the relationship was real, that there is no going back, and accept the finality?

For those of you who ended the relationship because you knew it was the only healthy choice, how did you begin processing the guilt and feeling of responsibility?

Also... .The depression. I feel consistently, pervasively sad. That, mixed with the trauma symptoms, is getting tough to handle day in and day out.

Appreciate anyone's input.

Thanks,

Redeemed

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi everyone,

I have finally taken the plunge and moved to Detaching board.

I don't like it, I would prefer to stay on Conflicted and live in a slightly more comfortable state of denial that this relationship can not be recovered.

I say recovered, not restored, because it was never a healthy relationship and the wreckage only got larger as it progressed.

It was abusive from almost the very start. Nearly eight years ago, now.

How did you guys begin to accept that the end of the relationship was real, that there is no going back, and accept the finality?

For those of you who ended the relationship because you knew it was the only healthy choice, how did you begin processing the guilt and feeling of responsibility?

Also... .The depression. I feel consistently, pervasively sad. That, mixed with the trauma symptoms, is getting tough to handle day in and day out.

Appreciate anyone's input.

Thanks,

Redeemed

[mama-wolf]

How did you guys begin to accept that the end of the relationship was real, that there is no going back, and accept the finality?

Hi Redeemed... .I'm sorry you find yourself here with us, but for many it really is the only healthy choice.  I would say that from the moment I knew there would be no going back, I really had to lean hard on my T.  I needed the sanity checks because I had a tendency to believe uBPDxw's revisionist history (and also wanted to convince myself it wasn't so bad).  Just writing things out on this board has helped too, of course... .

how did you begin processing the guilt and feeling of responsibility?

Also... .The depression. I feel consistently, pervasively sad. That, mixed with the trauma symptoms, is getting tough to handle day in and day out.

I don't know that I can claim to have truly begun processing the guilt and that feeling of responsibility.  My focus has stayed primarily on making it from one day to the next with the kids... .and when they haven't been with me I have actively distracted myself with just about anything else so that I didn't have to process things.  That's my avoidant nature, but I know it can't last forever.

One thing I have made a specific effort to do--with the encouragement of my T--is to make regular plans to visit with friends who are "safe" to be around.  Friends who aren't going to make unfair demands of me... .friends who accept me as I am, where I am.  This is important because depression makes us want to isolate ourselves (on top of the isolation we have already experienced in our relationship with pwBPD).  So I have proactively reached out to friends to either go for a bike ride, get a bite to eat, or just hang out for an hour, and I have tried to stick with that plan even if I have found myself not feeling very social when the time comes.

I have frequently gotten impatient with the detachment process, and others have had to remind me that it takes time.  Try to keep that in mind, too, and keep us posted on how you're doing... .

mw

[Cromwell]

Hi Redeemed and congrats on taking this step, it is a brave thing to do.

sticking around has its 'advantages' - I didnt have to face guilt of leaving, i could sideline and ignore the difficult times and enjoy the good times.

Yet I came to the very same conclusion you have given here - in the big picture, it was simultaneously a very unhealthy relationship to continue on with, unfulfilling and became a groundhog day type of life each day. It reached its natural expiry date and although I went NC and that helped, there was part of me that latently still did not give it up entirely, emotionally.

which I appreciate now is fine and I understand how I felt.

We got back in contact again by chance, 8 months through NC, and it took only a matter of weeks of going again through the same games again, albeit, I was in a better state of mind to evaluate them, that finally led me to draw a line under it once and for all.

so to get to that stage involved NC, getting my life moving in a direction that didnt involve her at all, and getting out of the fog.

the net result is, after a year apart, I feel no guilt or obligation - she is just an ex girlfriend, the feelings that got invoked that I was obliged for her welfare, I learned were unhealthy and something I take part responsibility for. The biggest way out of this for me was self development, moving towards an acceptance that actually - I wanted a happy mutually beneficial relationship and I never got it. I didnt and I dont want to be a; caretaker, rescuer etc, but I got into that role.

lastly, and this is unique to my own experience but worth sharing; she caused a huge amount of grief and anguish that regardless of her PD, I dont accept, much of it was deeply hurtful and direspectful at best. In terms of my feelings for her, I feel less sympathy for her than the average person out there who hasnt done similar.

Not an enemy as such, but my world paradigm has changed markedly to acknowledge the damage caused and I would never allow it to repeat itself again.

therefore, detaching became easy and complete on that basis - the complete knowledge that there will never be the remote possibility of going back, seals it off and equally removes the latent hope which just keeps the emotions carrying on.

i had to seperate a feeling of "missing her" from what it was; nostalgia of good times together, two very different things. thinking I was missing 'her' kept the hope open for a recycle as much as distort the truth of who she actually is and what she has done that I shouldnt have ever allowed in the first place.

[toomanydogs]

How did you guys begin to accept that the end of the relationship was real, that there is no going back, and accept the finality?

My STBX left me; I didn't leave him. I'd say it took me close to 9 months to truly accept that he was gone and he wasn't coming back.

How I began to accept the finality? Probably time. And a lot of lying awake at night wondering/worrying about how I'd move forward without him. He had given my life purpose. He had other issues besides the BPD and he wasn't high functioning. I took care of him. When he left, he left a void.

I leaned on friends and I leaned heavily on my T. So with time and support, I came around to being okay and actually excited that I'd get a chance to re-purpose my life.

For those of you who ended the relationship because you knew it was the only healthy choice, how did you begin processing the guilt and feeling of responsibility?

Also... .The depression. I feel consistently, pervasively sad. That, mixed with the trauma symptoms, is getting tough to handle day in and day out.

Because my STBX left, I didn't feel guilty, but I felt worried about him. I never thought from the time I met him that he should live alone. I'm much older than he is, and I had a lot of maternal feelings. I worried quite a bit about him.

I felt really sad, pretty much every day for about 9 or 10 months, and it was intermixed with anger. Then about a month ago, I decided I wanted to stop being angry, and I wanted to forgive. Not for STBX's benefit but for mine.

I also had trauma from the relationship and still do. Sometimes it gets really bad. But that said, I'm in a much better place than I was when he first left, and I'm in a better place than I was a month ago. It keeps getting better.

 
TMD

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Redeemed,

You've taken a brave step, as Cromwell has said.  It sounds like this signifies a level of acceptance within you already and I know that can feel scary.  For me it was like facing an abyss.  That feeling of discomfort is a good thing.  When we feel uncomfortable, we're pushing our limits and growing.  You've already come far.  Remember, there is no pressure to be detached.  Everyone detaches at their own pace.    

How did you guys begin to accept that the end of the relationship was real, that there is no going back, and accept the finality?

I needed a reason.  A solid, justifiable, logical reason that wasn't going to change.  Something I could cling to in my moments of weakness and spur myself on with through the pain heartbreak and grief.  It had to mean more to me than chasing the dream did.  A reason that would outweigh any argument to go back and I had it.  My safety and being a mother to my son.  

Once I gave myself enough distance from him to awaken and see through the FOG, my reason hit me like a freight train.  It's the reason I've built my life around now and I feel blessed that I was able to realise I do actually mean more to myself than he did, or any hope of a future with him.  That my son - our being able to sleep under the same roof, being a parent to him that he can rely upon and giving him a role model worthy of his trust is worth so much more to me than being abused by a man with severe issues - no matter how much I loved him.  Once I reached that point, there was no going back.  My path was set before me.

For those of you who ended the relationship because you knew it was the only healthy choice, how did you begin processing the guilt and feeling of responsibility?

The guilt and responsibility towards my ex - a mantra.  Every time I found myself slipping into guilty thoughts or worry about him, I repeated this as many times as I needed to - out loud - until I let go of the feelings:  I am not responsible for him or his actions.

Sounds simple, but it was very powerful for me to alter my thought process like this and it helped.  A whole lot.

Guilt and responsibility towards myself and my son - counselling, a lot of self compassion (mindfulness practice mostly) and good old time.  Allowing those feelings to come up and accepting them.  I take responsibility for my own choices and actions, but nobody else's.  That's a firm boundary I've put on myself now.  When my son is old enough to understand the huge impact we've both suffered, I will sit down with him and apologise.  I owe him that.  Right now I will love him with everything I have and show him a healthy way to live and relate to others.  I teach him to be kind and gentle, and to take care of himself first and foremost.  I was way off track with what I was showing him.  The buck stops with me.

I feel consistently, pervasively sad.

There are a lot of very good reasons to feel this way right now Redeemed.  You're beginning the process of recovering from 8 years of mistreatment.  A lot of experiences you didn't deserve to face have happened and that's a lot to work through.  I saw things I never imagined I'd see and was put in situations I couldn't ever explain properly to anyone because of how traumatic they were.  The sadness is almost like our body's way of acknowledging what we've been through.  It can be sadness for our loss - let's face it, for all the negative things we've been through, we are still dealing with a loss that needs to be grieved - and it can be sadness for ourselves and others who have been affected.  I was feeling very low and that combined with the level of trauma I was experiencing became more than I could cope with.  I went to my GP and explained that I was on the edge of a complete nervous breakdown (too much came up too fast) and that I was ready for the medication I'd been offered before.  She knew it was something I'd wanted to avoid and took me seriously.  The SSRI helped me to get back on a level where I could deal with what was in front of me.  Working with a counsellor to unravel what I was processing also helped a great deal.  Do you feel you need to speak to someone about the depression?  Recognising it is important, as it can worsen.  Talking helps and we can listen, as will your counsellor.  Sometimes we need a little more to bring us back into balance.  Depression can make everything seem much worse and you are already going through a lot.  How would you feel about talking to a doctor?  

Love and light x  

      

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Redeemed,

I know the amount of courage this takes.  You have weighed it all and decided you have to heal and move past this for yourself and for your son. 

I want to echo Harley Quinn and say don’t wait for depression to take hold before you get help.  It’s not weakness but strength to do what you need to do to be healthy.

I wish you all the best,

Mustbe

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Redeemed... .I'm sorry you find yourself here with us, but for many it really is the only healthy choice.  I would say that from the moment I knew there would be no going back, I really had to lean hard on my T.  I needed the sanity checks because I had a tendency to believe uBPDxw's revisionist history (and also wanted to convince myself it wasn't so bad).  Just writing things out on this board has helped too, of course... .

I don't know that I can claim to have truly begun processing the guilt and that feeling of responsibility.  My focus has stayed primarily on making it from one day to the next with the kids... .and when they haven't been with me I have actively distracted myself with just about anything else so that I didn't have to process things.  That's my avoidant nature, but I know it can't last forever.

One thing I have made a specific effort to do--with the encouragement of my T--is to make regular plans to visit with friends who are "safe" to be around.  Friends who aren't going to make unfair demands of me... .friends who accept me as I am, where I am.  This is important because depression makes us want to isolate ourselves (on top of the isolation we have already experienced in our relationship with pwBPD).  So I have proactively reached out to friends to either go for a bike ride, get a bite to eat, or just hang out for an hour, and I have tried to stick with that plan even if I have found myself not feeling very social when the time comes.

Thanks, Mama wolf,

I have an avoidant nature as well. I have tried to make an effort to get out and do things that I don't feel like doing but I know will be beneficial for me. I made myself visit a church this Sunday that I have been wanting to go to for a long time, but just didn't have the mental energy to do it. I really had a good time there and I will be going back this Sunday. I also learned about the Celebrate Recovery program they have there which would actually fit into my schedule (and provides child care) so I will be looking into starting that after Thanksgiving. I need to build my support system, because as you said, I tend to isolate myself. It was not hard for uBPDh to isolate me because I didn't have a very large social network to begin with. I can tell the difference in the ways he (and the r/s in general) isolated me and the ways in which I isolated myself; however, he always used my introversion as a means of escaping accountability for the ways in which he drove a wedge in the tentative r/s's I had with family, co-workers, friends, etc. He would point to the tendency I have to isolate myself and claim that he had nothing to do with it, and though the lines are blurry surrounding that particular issue, I can see the difference.

I do see the need to lean heavily on my T and also the added DV counseling. This was my "selling point" to the DV counseling supervisor when she asked me why I feel that I need two therapists. I explained that I can't fit my regular T into my overloaded schedule every week, and I feel that I definitely need weekly support face-to-face because I need the constant "bringing down to earth" of the risk factor involved in my r/s with uBPDh. I tend to let feelings of guilt sway me back to resuming the role of caretaker, believing that love will conquer all and if I quit now, maybe I will "miss the miracle"... .I also tend to believe that I "didn't give him a chance to change"... .he was "trying"... .etc. I need repeated reinforcement that these thought patterns are faulty and are the reason I got stuck enduring some really extreme abuse for years.

Hi Redeemed and congrats on taking this step, it is a brave thing to do.

 The biggest way out of this for me was self development, moving towards an acceptance that actually - I wanted a happy mutually beneficial relationship and I never got it. I didnt and I dont want to be a; caretaker, rescuer etc, but I got into that role...

i had to seperate a feeling of "missing her" from what it was; nostalgia of good times together, two very different things. thinking I was missing 'her' kept the hope open for a recycle as much as distort the truth of who she actually is and what she has done that I shouldnt have ever allowed in the first place.

Well put, Cromwell. I think I have unconsciously begun to do this. When the DV counselor asked me if I missed him and still wanted to be with him, I was actually able to say honestly "no"... .which is different this time (we have been 'separated' three times before). I used to think I was missing him, when it was actually just nostalgia for the sparse good times of the r/s. When I think of him now, and think about being with him, I get a wave of anxiety. The few months recently that we were having face-to-face contact, I realized that I was in a state of constant hyper vigilance while in his presence. I do not "miss" being in the company of someone whose behavior makes me feel like I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I realized that when I was still living with him I was always in this state but it had become my "normal". After some months of living away from him and having limited phone contact only, I was able to step outside of that "normality" and realize just how trauma-producing it was. Going back into that state again felt like being dragged back into a dark cave, and I want no part of it. I do not want a r/s that can not be mutually supportive and respectful, and I absolutely do not want to live on high alert wondering when the next abusive episode may come, and wondering what form it will take (mental, emotional, physical). NO. No way.

How I began to accept the finality? Probably time. And a lot of lying awake at night wondering/worrying about how I'd move forward without him. He had given my life purpose. He had other issues besides the BPD and he wasn't high functioning. I took care of him. When he left, he left a void.

I also had trauma from the relationship and still do. Sometimes it gets really bad. But that said, I'm in a much better place than I was when he first left, and I'm in a better place than I was a month ago. It keeps getting better.

 
TMD

I can relate to that TMD. UBPDh has other undiagnosed issues as well, and he is not high functioning either in many ways. He can hold a job for a few months, but he is lucky to have an employer that keeps hiring him back after the many times he has quit or been fired. He is terribly impulsive with money. He has a gambling addiction. I could go on and on. But, I wasn't able to "manage" those things for him when we were together anyway. I couldn't stop the fires, I could only try to put them out once he got them going.

I'm glad you are making progress. 



Harley and Mustbe,

I used to be on antidepressants... I went through many before I found one that worked pretty good for me. I have not taken it in probably two years, but I have considered going back on it. The mental health center where I see my T has nurse practictioners that can prescribe meds, and when I see my T today I am going to talk to her about a med appointment.

I try to be very aware of depression symptoms due to my previous diagnosis of MDD. I don't get the severe depressive episodes like I used to, but the depression is still there and it will interfere with my concentration and functioning. I want to be at my best, especially for s2

Thanks everyone for your support and encouragement. It helps so much to be able to talk to others who have trudged down this road. I wish I could come to the end of it with a hop, skip and jump but I guess the only way out is through. Story of my life 

Redeemed

[once removed]

hey I Am Redeemed 

im sorry that its come to this. im glad that youre reaching out.

can you catch us up a bit... .how did things end? do the two of you still have contact?

its a good step to tend to the depression and work closely with your T. domestic violence can leave a lot of longstanding scars.

How did you guys begin to accept that the end of the relationship was real, that there is no going back, and accept the finality?

completely against my will really. she was in another relationship almost immediately. i stayed stuck in the Bargaining stage of grief for a while, counting on their relationship to end, then trying to force closure on my own terms by trying to force the exchange of belongings. she was getting into my email, and i let her, while all that played out, so i finally accepted the exchange would never happen and changed my password, and moved into (but then through) the depression stage of grief.

two of the things that helped most were to have a good roadmap for my grief, and to accept/expect that it would be a rocky road; i didnt kick myself if i had a bad day, tell myself i should be further along, or deny it if i simply missed her because of course i missed someone i had loved and lost. i also celebrated the good days and the progress. the other thing was learning and practicing mindfulness... .trying to, in some ways, observe my recovery, and what i was going through, as an outsider, and question and observe it all rather than judge it one way or another. that really stuck with me, and made me more resilient in grief.

and of course, all the general stuff everyone tells you to do... .work with your T, eat and sleep (cant be overstated), spend precious time with loved ones, and one of my favorites was to not just return to my old hobbies, but to learn new skills. nothing better for the ol confidence.

[empath]

For me, it was a long term journey, most of which happened while h was still at home. I started getting dv counseling and doing a lot of reading on both dv and BPD, and I journalled a lot. Learning to detach from the emotional drama was a big part of my growth, and it helped me to see the patterns of my h's behavior vs what he would say.

When h left (he had a mental health crisis and moved out), I was able to be glad that he was self-aware enough to make a different choice this time. I also knew that I wasn't going to go through that again. I think having distance and safety has helped me with further detaching.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Once Removed,

UBPDh and I have been living separately for almost a year. Last November I called the police after a prolonged episode of raging when he refused to let me get my son out of the car and then took off with him. Long story, he ended up getting arrested and spent almost nine months in jail for assaulting me.

I went NC for three month at the beginning of the separation, but then we began talking on the phone while he was still in jail. Upon his release in July, I was trying to maintain LC but he gradually amped up the pressure on me until I was having way more contact (calls, texts and face to face) than was comfortable for me. I was trying to allow him to see our son, so I was bringing s2 over to the hotel room where uBPDh now lives so they could visit. He used these visits to gradually apply more pressure and guilt trips on me to resume the r/s. I was not comfortable at all going full blown back into the r/s until he got some type of help regarding his abusive behaviors.

His efforts at "treatment" included some classes he took while in jail about anger management, addiction, etc. for which he received certificates of completion. He also pitched the idea of us doing a "marriage bible study" with a church member that he knew who was giving him rides to church- someone I have never met. He also said that he would consider mental health treatment if I found a T he could go to that would schedule appointments around his work schedule. That was it, and I began to see that he was evading taking full responsibility for abusing me.

Three weeks ago, there was an incident where he went through my phone without permission and found some benign texts that he considered to be evidence that I was "lying and cheating." The abusive behaviors returned: he threw my phone, he whispered some malicious and degrading comments in my ear about my friends, he accused and blamed and interrogated. He stole money from my purse, and I believe that he disabled my van so I could not leave his hotel room. He popped the hood with the pretense of checking the coolant, and then suddenly, lo and behold, when I decided to leave to escape his emotional and mental abuse and false accusations- my van wouldn't start. He told me it was the fuel pump. Said he could fix it for me, offered to come to my house and take the fuel pump off my old van and put it on the new one.

All this was a form of gaslighting, a ploy to force me to have to stay with him that night and endure the relentless questioning and splitting- he threatened divorce, then he broke down crying and begging me to come back, he tried to pressure me to have sex, he held on to me and was rocking back and forth crying and saying that we just needed to move back in together... .it was a nightmare.

The next day I called a DV hotline. I then went to the local DV center for support. I had my van towed to a mechanic who checked it out and said there was nothing wrong with it- it starts just fine, and has been running since I picked it up three weeks ago. So I believe more than ever now that he definitely disabled it on purpose (he is a mechanic himself.)

I blocked him from the day I went to the DV center and have been NC ever since. He attempts to use his mother to contact me. He wants her to talk me into resuming contact with him. He thinks I am just "mad at him." He has assumed the victim/martyr role and made several posts on FB about me, how I lied to him but he forgives me, we have both made mistakes, that I was sneaking around to see him and was embarrassed for anyone to know that I went back to him, but it's ok and he hopes that I just "get better". Then more posts about how he has "done so much for me" and I just turned my back on him. Told his mother I must be seeing someone, and that now that he thinks about it, I was probably already seeing someone last year when I called the police and had him put in jail. Ugh.

I have remained NC to protect myself, and I am supposed to be setting up an appointment with legal services. It's time to file for divorce, and I know it, but it is still sad. I hate this.

Redeemed

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Redeemed, I'm sorry to hear what you've been through and would like to welcome you to the Detaching Board, which I consider a step in the right direction for you.

Years ago, my T asked me whether I thought that I had tried everything to save my marriage.  I said, Yes, I really think that I have.  She said, "I think so, too," which was a shock because normally she never mentioned her personal views in our sessions.  It was also a "lightbulb" moment, because it helped me to see that there was no going back.

Many people are reluctant to detach because they fear the unknown, which is understandable, yet I'm here to confirm that the unknown is also where greater happiness can be found, which is what it's all about, in my view.

LuckyJim

[Mutt]

How did you guys begin to accept that the end of the relationship was real, that there is no going back, and accept the finality?

Id like to join the others and welcome you to the detaching board. The best way for me to describe the end days is like watching a person drowning on TV or a movie obviously we know that it’s not real but your lungs fill up with water, your trashing in the water, desperate, fighting for your life and death is imminent.

I felt helpless and it hurt that I didn’t have a choice and that this was really the end. I didn’t want to accept it ebenutuslly i did and i think that that helped me get unstuck and go through the grieving process. I have a cousin that went though a divorce about a year after me. His ex wife has a mental illness of  some sort to this day four years after the divorce she hadn’t accepted it and he’s in a new r/s and he remarried.

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks empath, LJ and Mutt,

I know that I have made a step in the right direction because I am able now to see the r/s more objectively and I am prioritizing my safety, emotionally as well as physically.

I think the hardest part is just letting go of the idea that he could get better if he tried, if he put in ss much effort towards that as he does towards trying to pressure me into just taking him back. It makes me sad, mostly for my kids.

S7 told me the other day that I don't have to worry about uBPDh because he'll be back in jail again soon, he's sure. Wow. What a thing to hear from my son about his father.

But sadly, he is probably right. UBPDh has gone to jail for one reason or another every year for the last eight or nine years, maybe ten.

I think time and distance will help me detach. I already can't see any future with him.

Redeemed

[once removed]

boy, youve been through it all right.

sometimes all the tools in the world arent enough and we are left with nothing but hard choices.

again, im sorry that its come to that.

i hope that youll also take advantage of the Family Law/Coparenting board when the time comes.

how are you holding up? hows your son doing?

[I Am Redeemed]

Thank you once removed,

I actually have six children altogether. D11 and D10 are not uBPDh's bio kids. (Sadly, their dad also has addiction and mental health issues- ADHD as a kid and recently dx bipolar I believe- we have NC and he rarely sees or talks to the girls.)

With uBPDh, I have S7, S6, D4 (almost 5) and S2 (almost 3- he and D4 actually have the same birthday).

My sister has legal guardianship of my oldest five. I have S2.

CPS story... .lost custody because of dv... .Spent the last few years spinning wheels because uBPDh seemed to self sabotage any progress. The CPS requirements were the only treatment he has been to, and I don't think he was properly diagnosed or treated and also he manipulates counselors.

He has visited with s7, s6, and d4 exactly once in over a year and a half.

S7 is angry. He used to love uBPDh so much, just like s2 does now. The other two barely know him. S7 knows that uBPDh has hurt me. And that hurts him, and he doesn't want to see his dad anymore.

He said he wants to be a police officer so if uBPDh tries to hurt me in the future, he can arrest him.

S2 doesn't know what is going on. He loves uBPDh and misses him. If he sees something that reminds him of his dad, he asks for daddy. He doesn't understand.

Currently there is no visitation set up for s2. I feel bad about that, but I was trying to give him visitation with him until he ramped up the crazy and it was clearly unsafe to continue. Although according to him, I was not letting him see his son the way he was supposed to (in his mind) and I was purposely holding the contact with s2 over his head.

Not how I see it at all. I see that I sacrificed my time, my level of comfort and ultimately my emotional, mental and eventually physical safety just so he could see s2. When he is the one who made it necessary for us to leave- last year, he went on a drug use binge of methamphetamine laced with MDMA. He used it in the house with my son. He drugged me with it so I would fail a drug test if I took s2 and left. And it made his paranoia and psychotic symptoms skyrocket.

I can't believe, looking back, that I was so in the fog that I tolerated even a fraction of what I did.

I will probably post on the family law board eventually, but given his history, I can't imagine that I would not keep full custody.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Redeemed,  you've been very brave and strong and I can only imagine how much energy it has taken to get where you are now. 

The subject of your post, "how did you guys accept detaching," invites me to share my own epiphany.

As we've mentioned previously about the similarities shared by my ex-husband and your spouse, I had no idea how much energy I was expending just trying to stay on an even keel. Once I ended my relationship, it freed up a tremendous amount of time and space and not once, not for a moment, have I regretted divorcing him. My only regret was that I put up with his abuse for so many years.

Today I'm thankful for what I've learned and the relative peacefulness of my life (though I'm married to a pwBPD-lite husband--guess I needed more opportunity for learning.    )

Happy Thanksgiving,
Cat

[SlothMaiden]

Hi "I Am Redeemed"!

I'm about to post on this detaching board as well. First of all, I'm so sorry to hear about your story and I want to say that you're very brave to come to this decision to get out of unhealthy r/s. I have read that you have children so I hope it will be better for them too. I think they will feel things are improving when you're getting better mentally.

I myself can't say I have much experience in this whole r/s thing. My uBPDexbf is my first r/s ever and I had endured his abuses from subtle form of controlling, verbal & emotional abuses and manipulations to the full-blown rage and physical altercation, all in just 2 months. So I can't imagine what have you been through for the past 8 years. However, your decision to end the unhealthy r/s means that you still have some strength within you and you can surely do anything you want in the future to get yourself in the better place.

Anyway, in my case, I first have to accept that it's not my fault I got myself into this r/s at first place. Then I reassess my situation, myself, my underlying mental issues and my boundaries. The biggest problem with me is I let my uBPDexbf breached my limits and boundaries all over since the beginning.

My finality, however, came when he was in his "hater phrase" and he just emotionally & verbally abused me through the phone call that made me realized there's no going back anymore since I can't even talk with him decently. Maybe because I'm like sociopath sometimes, I just don't care anymore if he smoked weed and be lonely to dead. I don't care if he still loves me.

Yes, there were good times before (especially in idolization mode) and you'll get stuck to that. But sometimes, you will need to focus on the negativity to get the hard outlook on why you're leaving. Don't just use your emotion, use the logical sense and calculate it. You will feel regrets, failures, confusion and every single bad emotion,  so just feel it and let it pass. Be mindful of your reaction. All of this will help with your depression too. Depression is partly about how you won't let go of something and you keep repeating it over and over again. I've had major depression before I was in r/s so I knew I couldn't stay and had another major episode or it would ruin me again.

All in all, hope any of this help. I know it's probably not much, just to let you know that you're not alone in this.

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks Cat, happy Thanksgiving.
I will get past this, just as I have gotten past other relationships, and I know that I will come to a place of peace with it.

I already regret that I held on so long, I could have DIED many times. I think of some of the things he did and I know that only the hand of God saved me.

On that note, Slothmaiden, thank you, you are absolutely right. I have to go with the logic instead of the emotions, and I am not that good with that when it involves personal relationships. I really struggle with boundaries too, as you said, and I gradually let my weak boundaries be pushed down until I had no defense at all for self protection.

I have struggled with depression for nearly thirty years. The first time I was diagnosed with it was when I was twelve. At age 32 I was diagnosed with Major Depressive disorder. It's the reason I started therapy, even before the Relationship from Hell.

And you are right... .a big part of depression is being stuck in the past in some way, revolving around something that can't be changed, obsessing about it and replaying it, wallowing in the utter despair of it.

The only way I have found to keep the depression from engulfing me is to find and cling to hope. Hopelessness fuels and characterizes depression. Hope moves me away from it. I just have to make sure it's the right kind of hope... .not false hope, basing the future of my emotional state on the existence of a certain outcome for the circumstances... .such as the hope I had that uBPDh would recognize the damage he was causing, seek treatment and have a profound change in behavior, and then we could actually have the relationship and family that I dreamed of.

I have hope now that I can use this experience as a refining fire and come out from the ashes stronger, healthier and more solidly grounded than ever before.

Blessings
Redeemed

[Harley Quinn]

The new focus of your hope is very inspiring Redeemed!  That's a wonderful place to direct your energy.   

It's good that you're thinking about your boundaries.  I'm also with SlothMaiden, in that I recognised after the r/s that I'd had weak to no boundaries by the end and looking back, they weren't great to begin with.  After a violent and controlling r/s it's important to rebuild self esteem and to define and maintain our boundaries going forwards.  Have you spent any time thinking on what is important to you?  When you have time and space to yourself I'd suggest taking a notebook and pen somewhere comfortable and letting these things pour onto the page.  Establishing a clear understanding of what our values are is a really valuable first step.  I now practise honouring my values in a conscious way - something that was almost entirely new to me when it came to relationships.  Too frequently I'd let what was important to another trump what I felt strongly about.  I'm sure you can relate.

There's a great analogy I love from one of our workshops, which helped me a great deal to begin practising healthy boundaries more regularly:

Remember, our values and the boundaries of those values aren't about someone else. They are about how we choose to live our lives.
 
I have an eye analogy.  Eyelids play an important role in protecting our vision, right?  In this case, vision is the value.  To have good vision, dirt and dust are seen as harmful to the eye - thus we need a boundary to keep our eyes safe. Eyelids block the dirt and push the dust out - this is our boundary defense in action.
 
Eyelids don't try to control or punish or change the dirt, they just protect the "vision", consistently, day in, day out - often in subtle ways, sometimes in very visible ways - 400 million times in a lifetime.

Read full workshop HERE

How are things going with your counselling?

Love and light x

[empath]

The right kind of hope is important. I was reading a book, I think it was by Dr. Henry Cloud, where hope was described as something based on factual evidence. Then, he went on and said that wishes are hopes that aren't based on facts. That distinction helps me to think through the situation with my h. There are things that I wish that h would do, but those are not based on anything that he has done in the past. It also helps me to detach because I'm more realistic about the possibility for change.

[WantToBeFree]

Hi Redeemed,

I'm sorry you're having a tough time of it.  I am in the same boat.  I've known I should leave my udBPD H since the day I married him, and truthfully, I knew even before that I shouldn't have married him.  But I was determined to get my happily ever after and make it work.

Mine was also abusive right from the start.  It started out very slowly, almost invisible.  I rationalized the incidents away.  I told him time and time again that I would not stay forever, but it wasn't until our D4 was born that I really began to take even myself seriously.  Before that, leaving was just always something that would likely eventually happen... .always in the not so distant future.  But once she was born, I realized that the future was now.  

I still tried to fight it.  I even convinced myself for a while that I could live, unhappily for the sake of my family, to keep us together.  But then I had the thought... .what if my daughter came to me in 15 years and said "mom, I always knew you weren't happy with dad".  I couldn't live with that thought.  I also knew I grew up with the best role model for a father a girl could possibly ask for, and I still managed to marry the only guy I was ever with who was abusive to me.  What chance will she have of knowing what kind of guy to look for, if she hears her dad call her mother a c**t, and a b^^ch and see him push her into walls?  I know a lot of people think I was brave to save my daughter from that, but truthfully she saved me.  Without her, I am not sure I would have had the guts to leave him when I did, if ever.

You have to realize your own worth, and that you deserve better.  If you're like me, you'll have to tell yourself that every single day.  After 11 years, I became accustomed to the awful behavior, and the degrading treatment and the neglect and abuse.  Even still, I feel guilty sometimes, thinking maybe I should have done this or done that.  But then I flip it around, and imagine myself treating him in that exact same way.  It is unfathomable.  I would never in a million years treat anyone, much less someone I love, the way he has treated me.  And then the blinders come off and I can see clearly.  

Something that has helped me is I pin quotes and sayings on pinterest that describe my situation, or lift me up.  The board I pin them to is private so they're just for me.  Some of my favorites are "I was your cure, but you were my disease.  I was saving you, but you were killing me".  Another one is "Your relationship should be a safe haven, not a battlefield.  Life is hard enough already".  Pinning those, and re-reading the ones I pin are like affirmations, to remind myself just how F'd up our marriage was, and how much I deserve better.  

The summer when my D4 was a year and a half, I was seriously thinking of leaving him.  We had a paid for trip to Disney coming up that winter, with his whole family, so I pretty much decided that I would tell him we were done after the trip.  But then things got good, and we were on a good streak for probably the longest we ever were.  Not only did I no longer want to leave, the idea of divorce was not even in my head anymore.  But things turned around as they always do.  I still have a long ways to go, but I have come pretty far.  But it didn't happen overnight.  The first time I told my H I wanted a divorce was the following summer.  We had had a fight, and it was like a switch just flipped in me.  I suddenly got it.  I knew we had to split, and I know longer just knew it, but for the first time ever, I wanted it.

He went crazy, he cried, and begged me, was literally on his knees begging me for another chance.  I didn't want to relent, but I thought, this is the first time I seriously told him I was done.  Maybe I owe our D4 a chance to make it work.  I spent the next 2 years going up and down... .when things were good, I was happy and hopeful.  When things were bad, I would withdraw and he could feel it, and confront me before I could ever come to him with the fact that I still wanted a divorce.  At least 8-10 times over that two years, we had the divorce talk, and he would beg and cry and plead and I would agree to take him back.  

Finally last year, I knew I was done.  We had yet another vacation planned, so I was going to tell him afterward that we were done, but we got into a big fight a couple weeks before and he painted me into a corner.  I told him I was done.  We separated and he moved out.  I had NO intentions of getting back together, though I was crushed and it was much harder than I had anticipated.  I was very sad, and cried all the time.  I didn't know what to do about our vacation, so I decided whatever, let's just go.  It can be one last family trip for our D4.  A few days before we flew home, I realized I loved having my family back together, and I didn't want it to end.  We stayed separated for a few more months but worked on rebuilding things (or building things, as you said, our relationship was never good).  He moved back in just after the new year and just two weeks later he was back to his old ways.  At that point I was still hopeful we could work it out, but I knew if I ever went through another period of seriously wanting out, then I just needed to do it, because I could not take the back and forth for the rest of my life, it would drive me insane.

Come this past summer, I had pretty much decided I would tell him at some point during the summer, but I had no concrete time frame.  One day I was working and it just hit me... .what was I waiting for?  I now knew we were over... .there was no coming back.  If he couldn't even go a few weeks without messing up again, how could we ever go the next 40+ years together?  Marriage is hard work, and everyone goes through hard times, but I would guess people in a good marriage can say despite the hard times, the majority of their marriage is good.  In 11 years, I could not say that even one of those years was good for the majority of the time.  If all the threats of divorce, if all the fights, if actually being separated and living apart did not scare him into being a better man, or getting help to be a better man, then nothing would.  I finally, truly saw that.  I asked him to move out mid-June, and our divorce will be final in January.

I feel you on feeling depressed.  I too have struggled with depression, and this time is no different.  I don't feel sad, I don't miss him, but I just feel... .blah.  I am hoping once the divorce is final, I will start to feel better.  Just this week I cut him out of my life completely, except for when it involves our D4.  He's tried calling and texting almost every day, but unless its about her, I ignore it.  I blocked him on FB so he cannot see what I am up to and I cannot see his.  Except for the fact that he has visitation with D4, I am finally coming to terms with treating him as though he does not exist.  I wanted to stay friends, I wanted to be that couple that could be apart, but co-parent and do what is best for their kid, but I see that that is not possible and he will use her to get to me any chance he can.  The more you can distance yourself from the toxic person, the less you'll get sucked into their drama and pain.  

Wishing you all the best!

-Want to be (I am) free

[Mustbeabetterway]

Wow,  WantToBe Free what a thoughtful post.  It is my story really, except, I stayed 38 years.  The name calling, physical intimidation, my upBPDh drank a lot and he would be abusive then, but I blamed it on the drinking.  We also had  the good times that gave you hope that things had turned the corner.  I wanted to be that friendly divorced couple too, I even talked to him about being married and living separately, but the communication from him was toxic. Even though we have been separated for 10 or 11 months now, I know I was wishy washy and sent mixed signals about my feelings.  Over time, I have finally detached enough to feel it’s really over.  I think I’ve convinced him that we are really split up and haven’t heard from him in about 5 days now. 

Speaking of “hope” in these relationships, when I was first reading Stop Caretaking the Narcissist or Borderline in Your Life... . by Margalis Fjelstad, she says you have to give up hope.  I actually became angry reading this.  I’m an optimist and it just went against my grain not to hope he would change his behavior for the better.  But after many hours of study, thought, talking to people in the bpdfamily, I realized she was talking about wishing.  Of course, as empath says, the right kind of hope is important - the kind that is based on facts and evidence.  For me, the patterns,  the cycles, made it evident that change was not likely.

It’s hard for me, being a codependent type to value and believe myself and my worth as much as I value others and that is something I am always working on.  I think astrology is interesting and my sign is Pisces which is a water sign, considered a muteable sign basically meaning able to  take the shape of the container.  I have to be careful to be myself and not pour myself into someone else and be what they want or need.

Redeemed, how was Thanksgiving with MIL?  How are you feeling today?  I hope you are doing well. 

Peace and blessings,

Mustbe

[I Am Redeemed]

Harley,

I have my first counseling appointment this coming Thu. Last week was Thanksgiving, and the week before it snowed which is unusual this time of year where I live. In the South, we close schools and businesses at the first sign that snow and ice might stick to the roads, so the dv office was closed and I had to reschedule.

empath,

I like the clarification between hoping and wishing. I tend to also think that believing for the impossible is having faith in God, and that kept me stuck for a long time because I thought if I let go of the idea that h would get help and really change his behavior, that I was letting go of my faith in what God can do. Now I realize that I can still have faith that God works all things together for the good of those who love him, and that with God all things are possible... .but I will have to keep praying for h and trusting God to work that out from a distance. I will never give up praying for him. What I will give up is subjecting myself to abuse while I wait for a miracle. That is not God's will for me, and I get it now.

wanttobefree,

I can really relate to your story. The back and forth, the crying, begging, pleading, then nothing changes. Nothing seems to bring about the epiphany that change is necessary in order to continue the r/s. Been there, wow, been there.

Something I think about now that I didn't realize before is- when he cried and begged and made promises, he was only thinking of himself. He did not want the discomfort of being alone. He never once thought that if I took him back, I was putting myself at risk for more harm, because he would not get help to change his abusive ways- he just promised it wouldn't happen anymore. He did not care about the risk to me, he only cared about his own pain.

And when I refused to take him back and "fix" that pain for him this time- then I became the one who had turned my back on him. He is the victim. He tells his mother that I am probably using drugs and seeing someone else. He has decided that is the reason that I no longer want to be in the r/s-  not his abusive treatment of me. His mother tried to tell him that I just couldn't take being abused by him anymore and his response was "mom, don't say that. I was GOOD to her." That is a clear indicator that he is completely disordered, because his mother has witnessed firsthand the emotional, verbal, and even some of the physical abuse he has heaped on me through the last eight years. She knows better.

Mustbe,

I had a great Thanksgiving with MIL, thank you! I hope you had a great holiday as well. S2 and I picked up food (I didn't have time to cook, I worked til late Mon night, Tue night and all day Wed) and we just ate and watched the babies (s2 and her great-grandson, 6 mos.) and drank coffee. uBPDh called at one point and she did not tell him I was there- she did not mention even talking to me. He has stopped asking her to call me and convince me to call him. He now just whines to her about his plight, perpetuating his victim status, which she doesn't buy.

thanks everyone for your replies, and for sharing your own experiences. It helps to know that what I am feeling is normal and that others have gone through similar stages.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

WantToBeFree, Mustbe, Redeemed--I want to share a big METOO! with all of you. The patterns you detailed, WantToBe are so reminiscent of what I went through with my first husband.

Regarding hope, my Norwegian relatives used to say, "Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other. See which one fills up first."   Though I heard that saying repeatedly in my childhood, somehow I missed the message.  

I tend to also think that believing for the impossible is having faith in God, and that kept me stuck for a long time because I thought if I let go of the idea that h would get help and really change his behavior, that I was letting go of my faith in what God can do. Now I realize that I can still have faith that God works all things together for the good of those who love him, and that with God all things are possible... .but I will have to keep praying for h and trusting God to work that out from a distance. I will never give up praying for him. What I will give up is subjecting myself to abuse while I wait for a miracle. That is not God's will for me, and I get it now.

Here's the kicker: God gives us free will. Your husband really doesn't think he needs to change--he thinks everyone else is to blame.

Something I think about now that I didn't realize before is- when he cried and begged and made promises, he was only thinking of himself. He did not want the discomfort of being alone. He never once thought that if I took him back, I was putting myself at risk for more harm, because he would not get help to change his abusive ways- he just promised it wouldn't happen anymore. He did not care about the risk to me, he only cared about his own pain.

And when I refused to take him back and "fix" that pain for him this time- then I became the one who had turned my back on him. He is the victim.

Yes. I experienced this. Word. for. word. And my husband's mother knew as well. It brought her great shame and sorrow that her son turned out this way.

It helps to know that what I am feeling is normal and that others have gone through similar stages.

I'm many years out of that marriage. Haven't seen him in over a decade. He lives on the opposite coast. Still I get phone calls from creditors trying to track him down for unpaid bills. He is who he is... .

[Mustbeabetterway]

Just to share a tidbit and add some humor - when all of our wedding plans were swirling and filling up every moment like weddings will do, I dreamed I was walking a tiger down the aisle!  Ha - I should have listened to that dream. 

Somebody here had a quote under  their signature line that said, "Let go, or be dragged."  I think I should print that out and stick it on my mirror to remind myself not to pick up that leash again! 

Cat I like your Norwegian saying  . It's funny how you hear those things and one day you think - oh that's what they meant! 

Well, it's good to have some solidarity here!

Mustbeabetterway

[I Am Redeemed]

Cat,

My ex-bf used to say that, and from time to time I find myself saying it too... .though I never thought to apply it to my "false hopes"... .it certainly fits.

I have used a watered-down version of that whenever one of my kids would be whining about something they wanted that wasn't going their way... .guess I had "mom-blinders" on and didn't realize that applied to me too 

I still find it incredible that so many of you have such similar stories. It still blows my mind that such erratic, impulsive, chaotic, crazy, manipulative, destructive and maladaptive behaviors can actually follow a pattern and are not unique.

Mustbe,
 
Wow, a tiger.   that may have been your subconscious trying to tell you something.

when my dad passed away, I had a dream just about a week later that I was in the kitchen of a house (not a house that I knew, but in the dream it seemed familiar) and my dad was there, putting his arms around me and telling me "I'm here, I'm here"- except in the dream he wasn't saying it, it was like I could just hear him. My mother and my husband were sitting at the kitchen table, and in the dream I was looking at them and saying "Do you see this?'' because I knew that my dad had passed, and even in the dream it seemed unreal that he would be there putting his arms around me.

I always thought that was my dad's way of letting me know he was still with me. Now, looking back, I think there was more to that dream than I realized. Each person in that dream is someone whose loss I have had to grieve. My dad had just passed. Subconsciously, I believe that I knew that my mother would logically pass next, and I think that I also "knew" that the relationship with my h was not sustainable. l believe now that dream was my subconscious trying to deal with and prepare me for the loss of all three of those people- dad, mom, h.

And it has come to pass- I am alone now. Dad's gone, Mom's gone... .and my marriage is as good as gone.

But looking back on it... .I was always alone.

You'd think I would be used to it by now.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Regarding being alone--my parents had me when they were much older than most people who had children in their generation. Their parents were also older when they were born and they both had elder siblings. There was obvious dysfunction in my BPD mother's family and of her seven brothers and sisters, the only surviving children from the next generation are my cousin and me. And neither of us had children--that DNA line ends with us.

My dad was a black sheep of his family and he severed ties with his family in the South to move to California. I met some of those relatives there a couple of times and I thought they were very nice, though some were of the rigid Bible-believing-proselytizing intolerant type and were unpleasant if one were not on the same page.

So now all my aunts and uncles are dead or I've lost contact with the ones I never really knew. My dad died in the 90s and I lost my mom in the early 2000s. At that time, I said to myself, "You are truly an orphan now." It was a strange feeling to have no family, as my cousin and I never got along and we don't keep in touch.

But what I realized is that I had no one who held my personal history, no one who could trace my story from my birth, though my childhood, through my education and work history, to this exact point in time.

What occurred to me was that this was really freeing. I could be whoever I wanted to be without someone saying, "No, that's not you." Not that I wanted to make up a false history for myself, but that I could leave behind all those feelings of not being good enough. If I didn't carry that baggage, there was nobody else carrying it for me.  

[empath]

Now I realize that I can still have faith that God works all things together for the good of those who love him, and that with God all things are possible... .but I will have to keep praying for h and trusting God to work that out from a distance. I will never give up praying for him. What I will give up is subjecting myself to abuse while I wait for a miracle. That is not God's will for me, and I get it now.

Abuse is not God's will for anyone - either as a subject or as an abuser. Sometimes, we have to distance ourselves from the situation. At the same time, God has given us all free will and doesn't force us to follow him; people have to willingly turn toward God. My h likes to blame me, others, and/or God for the problems he has and can be "victimy".

Re: being alone... .  I was talking to my counselor one time and said that I was living life as if I were a single mom. This was before h moved out, but it was clear that he wasn't reliable enough as a parent for our d. It was one of the areas of loss that I worked through.

[I Am Redeemed]

Cat,

I guess I have always felt "alone" in my family, even before uBPDh. I didn't have a "normal" relationship with either parent growing up. My parents were older, as well, when I was born, as I was the "second marriage" child- they each had two grown children from previous marriages, and I always felt like I was completely an accident because Mom and Dad had been married for twelve years before they had me- and Dad was 48, Mom was 41 (the same age I am now).

I never felt emotionally safe and secure in my FOO. There was always conflict, and I was always on the sidelines of it trying to not get caught in the crossfire. I learned to withdraw, isolate, and avoid from an early age.

Really, though, with all the kids I have, I am not alone. They may not all live with me, but I am determined to make the best of the time I have with them. It's my goal to be the best parent that I can be to them no matter what custodial situation exists on paper.

Empath,

My h professes to have a r/s with God, but I just question how genuine that actually is. I believe that the Holy Spirit reveals to us the areas in our lives that do not line up with God's word or will. It may not be all at once, because that would be too overwhelming and discouraging and God knows that. But I just don't see how someone who proclaims to have a r/s with Jesus could continue to be emotionally and mentally abusive and not see the harm they are causing.

UBPDh has told his mother that he doesn't know why "God is doing this"- he prayed for our family to be restored and instead I went nc with him. I guess he views his r/s with God just like he does anyone else- he expects God to give him what he wants without him having to change anything within himself.

Redeemed

[Harri]

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