The 3rd cycle of moving out, how do I best approach keeping my integrity intact

[Depression = 72% of members]

My wife of a few years has decided she's a bad person, needs to work on herself and needs to move out, so she did. This is the 3rd time it's happened. The first time lasted a week, the 2nd a month and now I'm not really sure, but I don't really mind. I'm glad actually. The struggle I'm having with is how I should be acting on my end of things that if I decide to in the future still pursue a relationship with her, to go back into it as strong as possible on my side with stronger boundaries and higher self respect.

I've progressed a lot over the years, have taken a DBT class, her too, the whole she-bang. Basically what happened was she saw a new psychiatrist that took her off her anti-psychotic meds a month ago. Fast forward a month later she's acting really... psychotic! Lashing out verbally and physically, memory loss of our relationship before she stopped the meds (we had been having really great progress for several months, the days could be hard here and there but she would really dust herself off and over-correct a lot of the times!)

We went to japan a few weeks ago for a couple weeks which was right when the meds were getting out of her system. It was a perfect storm, meds off whack, a foreign place with barely any english speakers even in the city and she had just been diagnosed with celiac's disease so she wasn't sure what she could eat. It was a rough trip but it was a catalyst into what would create her into a corrosive and vile person over the next couple weeks. By the end of the trip I told her I think it's best if I get an airbnb for a month so we can both collect ourselves because it had gotten so bad (trust me when I say bad, she's been physically abusive towards me, i've called the cops in the past) and of course, silly me, I didn't follow through with it and that's what she ends up doing in the end.

So she has the plans to move out for at least a year instead of thinking shorter term to re-regulate herself (at this point she started taking her anti-pschotic meds again which helped stop the mood swings) so I told her she should get an airbnb immediately just so we can be separate and I didn't want her near me while she's so unstable and it would give her time to think about if it's what she wants to do for sure. She agreed and resisted a little bit but in the end thought it was for the best and promised me she would think about things. 1 day after being at the airbnb she put down the deposit and paid rent at a new place.

Now here is where things get tricky, because otherwise I've learned through self growth and being in a relationship with my wife to just let these things work themselves out, give space and time and not take things personally. Her illness does not revolve around me, I am simply collateral damage. This time tho, I have been disabled for 2 months so I have not had any money coming in. Before this I was the bread winner and she was on minimum wage. Well, during these 2 months which had the greatest progress in our relationship emotionally and physically, she really started to pick up the slack with her online business and made even more than I ever did (I almost make 6 figures) and started helping around the house and other fun stuff. I still had no income but I paid all the bills, I paid for all of us to go out to eat, groceries, fun stuff etc. and she would pay her half, but over the couple months I started to get really lax with it and try to take a more "our money" (even tho we had agreements of making sure she pays her "share", we've had to set this up this way because she cannot manage money) approach to it as we had money issues in the past (she's not so hot with money and got into a ton of debt so we had to be careful with calculating our exact financials) However this became a problem fast forward to today, because I started to run out of money since I had been paying for everything and not having any income. So I simply asked her to pay half of the mortgage (before I was disabled she paid about 10% of it) This became a big issue, yadda yadda. So she decided not to. Not only that she decided not to pay me back for any of the large personal expenses she did, like buy a puppy which I paid for a week ago, etc. So she decides to move out, not pay me the thousands of dollars that she "owes" (this is simply just because I would put everything on my card and she "owes" me for her half of stuff, like groceries, puppy, japan trip etc.) and use all that money for moving out and now she is broke. I specifically implored her that I can't pay OUR bills without it (she is on the deed) because I planned for her to contribute before all this happened and I really tried hard to make it about how "I need help, please" instead of "you owe this!" which to me kind of hurt because I was asking for help and she was not interested at all. I also asked her if she could please just stay at an airbnb for a month before moving out permanently so we can both stabilize and figure out our finances.

Right now it's a bit unsure. I don't reach out to her but I am still her husband and continue to be kind. It's difficult to remind her that I love her because her head is all over the place in regards to what we are and will be. She jokes about still having her ring on (she left her ring for me to find last time she moved out about a year ago) but at the same time tells me on the phone that she doesn't see a life with me because of a new life calling to her. We are both going to write letters about the situation and bring it into couple's therapy next week to hold each other accountable and really dig deep I suppose.

tl:dr
My wife is moving out to "better herself" for the 3rd time. Each time she has she's been destructive about the process and is not considerate of me. I have been disabled so I had been really banking on the partnership aspect of our relationship, scratching each others backs. I have never asked her for a dime and I have never really asked her for help. In my one moment of need she completely disregards me and abandoned me. I have felt disregarded and a very low priority to her for the past year now and it's a recurring issue. I'm looking to see what I should be doing now during this "break" if I decide to pursue that later because I am tired of being disregarded so heavily. Right now I am not interested in more than a minimum amount of "being together" we seriously need a lot of time apart and for her to get her act together and for enough time to pass where we can re-enter the relationship with much much stronger boundaries. I don't want to walk back into abuse and she has a lot to fix before I want her back in my life on a daily basis. I have kept communication to low contact, I only reply to her, I don't reach out. But I do still remember at the end of the day I love her and she is my wife so I am not punishing her in regards to communication or taking it too hard on myself about worrying about what I say, I just try to keep it casual, but I seriously need to get across to her "enough is enough". (this should be done through actions, but what are the actions I ponder...)

Even though things aren't supposed to be taken personally, I kind of do on a lot of these parts. for the first time, I asked for HELP from my WIFE and she turned her back on me, but not only that she abandoned ALL of her responsibilities. To top it off, we had a lot of life plans and agreements that she completely fell through on with her abruptly moving out like this. She admits that she is a selfish person because I called her out on this whole moving out immediately thing. I told her she's a coward and selfish and if she wants to better herself, right now is an opportunity to mature, to stay, stop treating me like she was and work this out like a partner and THEN move out in a month. She did not deny any of it.

Bleh, this is mostly word vomit/vent and it's late and the days have been lonely lately since I've been out of work and most friends are busy as of late. I've been doing a lot of self care, getting a ton of chores done, etc. I know the drill and I'm content with myself in those respects and enjoying all the free-time I suddenly have! :D

[ziasquinn3000]

My wife of a few years has decided she's a bad person, needs to work on herself and needs to move out, so she did. This is the 3rd time it's happened. The first time lasted a week, the 2nd a month and now I'm not really sure, but I don't really mind. I'm glad actually. The struggle I'm having with is how I should be acting on my end of things that if I decide to in the future still pursue a relationship with her, to go back into it as strong as possible on my side with stronger boundaries and higher self respect.

I've progressed a lot over the years, have taken a DBT class, her too, the whole she-bang. Basically what happened was she saw a new psychiatrist that took her off her anti-psychotic meds a month ago. Fast forward a month later she's acting really... psychotic! Lashing out verbally and physically, memory loss of our relationship before she stopped the meds (we had been having really great progress for several months, the days could be hard here and there but she would really dust herself off and over-correct a lot of the times!)

We went to japan a few weeks ago for a couple weeks which was right when the meds were getting out of her system. It was a perfect storm, meds off whack, a foreign place with barely any english speakers even in the city and she had just been diagnosed with celiac's disease so she wasn't sure what she could eat. It was a rough trip but it was a catalyst into what would create her into a corrosive and vile person over the next couple weeks. By the end of the trip I told her I think it's best if I get an airbnb for a month so we can both collect ourselves because it had gotten so bad (trust me when I say bad, she's been physically abusive towards me, i've called the cops in the past) and of course, silly me, I didn't follow through with it and that's what she ends up doing in the end.

So she has the plans to move out for at least a year instead of thinking shorter term to re-regulate herself (at this point she started taking her anti-pschotic meds again which helped stop the mood swings) so I told her she should get an airbnb immediately just so we can be separate and I didn't want her near me while she's so unstable and it would give her time to think about if it's what she wants to do for sure. She agreed and resisted a little bit but in the end thought it was for the best and promised me she would think about things. 1 day after being at the airbnb she put down the deposit and paid rent at a new place.

Now here is where things get tricky, because otherwise I've learned through self growth and being in a relationship with my wife to just let these things work themselves out, give space and time and not take things personally. Her illness does not revolve around me, I am simply collateral damage. This time tho, I have been disabled for 2 months so I have not had any money coming in. Before this I was the bread winner and she was on minimum wage. Well, during these 2 months which had the greatest progress in our relationship emotionally and physically, she really started to pick up the slack with her online business and made even more than I ever did (I almost make 6 figures) and started helping around the house and other fun stuff. I still had no income but I paid all the bills, I paid for all of us to go out to eat, groceries, fun stuff etc. and she would pay her half, but over the couple months I started to get really lax with it and try to take a more "our money" (even tho we had agreements of making sure she pays her "share", we've had to set this up this way because she cannot manage money) approach to it as we had money issues in the past (she's not so hot with money and got into a ton of debt so we had to be careful with calculating our exact financials) However this became a problem fast forward to today, because I started to run out of money since I had been paying for everything and not having any income. So I simply asked her to pay half of the mortgage (before I was disabled she paid about 10% of it) This became a big issue, yadda yadda. So she decided not to. Not only that she decided not to pay me back for any of the large personal expenses she did, like buy a puppy which I paid for a week ago, etc. So she decides to move out, not pay me the thousands of dollars that she "owes" (this is simply just because I would put everything on my card and she "owes" me for her half of stuff, like groceries, puppy, japan trip etc.) and use all that money for moving out and now she is broke. I specifically implored her that I can't pay OUR bills without it (she is on the deed) because I planned for her to contribute before all this happened and I really tried hard to make it about how "I need help, please" instead of "you owe this!" which to me kind of hurt because I was asking for help and she was not interested at all. I also asked her if she could please just stay at an airbnb for a month before moving out permanently so we can both stabilize and figure out our finances.

Right now it's a bit unsure. I don't reach out to her but I am still her husband and continue to be kind. It's difficult to remind her that I love her because her head is all over the place in regards to what we are and will be. She jokes about still having her ring on (she left her ring for me to find last time she moved out about a year ago) but at the same time tells me on the phone that she doesn't see a life with me because of a new life calling to her. We are both going to write letters about the situation and bring it into couple's therapy next week to hold each other accountable and really dig deep I suppose.

tl:dr
My wife is moving out to "better herself" for the 3rd time. Each time she has she's been destructive about the process and is not considerate of me. I have been disabled so I had been really banking on the partnership aspect of our relationship, scratching each others backs. I have never asked her for a dime and I have never really asked her for help. In my one moment of need she completely disregards me and abandoned me. I have felt disregarded and a very low priority to her for the past year now and it's a recurring issue. I'm looking to see what I should be doing now during this "break" if I decide to pursue that later because I am tired of being disregarded so heavily. Right now I am not interested in more than a minimum amount of "being together" we seriously need a lot of time apart and for her to get her act together and for enough time to pass where we can re-enter the relationship with much much stronger boundaries. I don't want to walk back into abuse and she has a lot to fix before I want her back in my life on a daily basis. I have kept communication to low contact, I only reply to her, I don't reach out. But I do still remember at the end of the day I love her and she is my wife so I am not punishing her in regards to communication or taking it too hard on myself about worrying about what I say, I just try to keep it casual, but I seriously need to get across to her "enough is enough". (this should be done through actions, but what are the actions I ponder...)

Even though things aren't supposed to be taken personally, I kind of do on a lot of these parts. for the first time, I asked for HELP from my WIFE and she turned her back on me, but not only that she abandoned ALL of her responsibilities. To top it off, we had a lot of life plans and agreements that she completely fell through on with her abruptly moving out like this. She admits that she is a selfish person because I called her out on this whole moving out immediately thing. I told her she's a coward and selfish and if she wants to better herself, right now is an opportunity to mature, to stay, stop treating me like she was and work this out like a partner and THEN move out in a month. She did not deny any of it.

Bleh, this is mostly word vomit/vent and it's late and the days have been lonely lately since I've been out of work and most friends are busy as of late. I've been doing a lot of self care, getting a ton of chores done, etc. I know the drill and I'm content with myself in those respects and enjoying all the free-time I suddenly have! :D

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[itsmeSnap]

Hey ziasquinn3000

Well that is definitely a lot going on, I imagine what you wrote is the short version right?

No but seriously, I can imagine this could go on for a whole book, so let's see...

trust me when I say bad, she's been physically abusive towards me, i've called the cops in the past

right there.

We have this here, give it a read as a "just in case".
DV safety plan (pdf)

With this background I can't really say her staying somewhere else was the wrong choice. Not the "correct choice", which is to deal with the issues, but not entirely wrong either.

she saw a new psychiatrist that took her off her anti-psychotic meds a month ago

I don't have experience with psych meds but I assume changes can make people taking them also go through a swing.

I told her she should get an airbnb immediately just so we can be separate and I didn't want her near me

So it was sort of a mutual agreement?

I told her she's a coward and selfish

Not an entirely "healthy" way to help someone you love with their self growth. Lots of anger and resentment there (about the money issues as well) that you'll need to sort through.

As to the title question: "How do I best approach keeping my integrity intact"

Two things I think would be productive in your situation:
1) Define what your integrity is.

I heard it called "core values", things/concepts/ideas you are definitely not going to compromise on, your own personal "my way or the highway" list. Everything else is up for debate or can be arranged for.

2) Let go of the resentment.

If you truly want to move forward, you need to let go of the past. Easier said than done I know. Its ok to be angry, just don't let it consume you, or your future. If you feel you are not ready for that, or even if you are but feel the anger is justified (again, not wrong to be angry) ask yourself why (and possibly tell us about it so we can bounce ideas with you!)

I know I focused on a very small subset of what you said, just letting you know I did read the whole thing. Those were the most "actionable issues" that stood out to me.

it's late and the days have been lonely lately since I've been out of work and most friends are busy as of late.

Having someone to listen and who you can rely on (a support network) is really important. Remember to check in with family and friends every once in a while, even if they're busy, spend some time with them if you can (side effect is not focusing about the problems with the wife if you can manage  its "you and them" time!)

Speaking of having a support network, keep us posted!
 

[ziasquinn3000]

Thanks for the reply!

Yep  we have already sorted through DV issues, it (ideally) won't be happening again but that's the whole point. Ideal doesn't happen, so we already have safety plans for next time. Balling up in a corner does NOT work with my wife.

DV doesn't pertain to her moving out. A lot of her trip she would emotionaly lash out or be an annoyance. Like turning off the hot water if I would try to take a bath (not in the bathroom but an external switch) or sprawling out on the bed not letting me come to bed, etc. Stuff I know how to overcome but during the trip and after it was almost every minute of everyday.

she saw a new psychiatrist that took her off her anti-psychotic meds a month ago
I don't have experience with psych meds but I assume changes can make people taking them also go through a swing.

Yes, huge mood swings is what had been going on. She seems a lot more stabilized now re-taking the meds.

So it was sort of a mutual agreement?

Yes, with slight resistance. By the time she decided she would move out for good and get her own place and been on her anti-psych meds for a couple days she calmed down a lot. She asked if she could just sleep downstairs until she moved out for good, but I said I think it's best if we do it now and explained to her why. I had the notion that we needed to separate right away to stop the toxicity and an ulterior motive I had was to let her calm down even further with the space and rethink things. I explained this to her. She ended up agreeing and she agreed to "give it an old fashioned go" before deciding to move out completely, but of course she decided it the next day.

I told her she's a coward and selfish

It's difficult. I tried other methods to walk through this with her but at a certain point she wasn't hearing what I had to say. What has worked with my wife in the past is calling her on the appropriate "bull___" I learned this while taking an RO-DBT class and the therapists she worked with told me this was advisable. That I need to have enough respect for her to believe she will be an adult and accountable. Maybe the exact way it came out wasn't the best, but it resonated with her enough to seem like it helped. Because after that she did tell me she was in it for the longhaul and wanted to do this for both of us (instead of about moving on with her life) and when she also agreed to "give it a try" before deciding.

Define what your integrity is. Let go of the resentment.

Ya, this is something I've had to learn in the past and remind myself what my agenda is. "to have a long and healthy relationship" What's healthy? It's a continuous notion that we have to make agreements on and figure out one day at a time, so it's difficult. To answer your question tho the reason it popped up for this, well, it was incredibly sudden that's for sure. And the reasoning as to why, I feel abandoned. I'm at the one point in my life where I truly needed to rely on her and where we truly had made long term goals and commitments to each other. But I digress, I have to remember her illness is not about me. I am just collateral damage.

Speaking to what my integrity is, while communicating with her I have been sure to stick true to my own values. Treating her with kindness and respect but also being sure to limit my exposure to the nastiness while still being her husband while she's dealing with whatever she's dealing with in her mind. I don't really have strong "my way or the highway" values and it's what leads to my boundaries being broken, because I always am optimistic and wanting to believe in my wife (and other people in general). Sometimes it turns out good, others not so much.

As it currently stands things are still mellow and she's handling things a lot more reasonably. Contact is still low but she does check in and tell me a little about her day. I be sure to keep it short and sweet in case I am doing anything I need to get back to. We did have dinner the other night and kept things casual, something about bills got brought up so I did implore her as to when she is planning to finish her obligations towards that and she got a bit heated, but I brought it back down to a safer space to her. She holds way too much shame with doing that to me and her mother's ex-wife did the same exact thing to her so she takes it personally as well when it's shown to her that is doing it too. She came around and said she will when she can and I believe her about that. Overtime I have become more confident in when and what I can trust my wife with.

Yep, I have been hustling my support network! All good there too.

[itsmeSnap]

we already have safety plans for next time

Good to know, I know it can seem like being "pestered" about DV but you know, things get out of hand and I would hate to be "the one who kept quiet" if it hits the fan.

What has worked with my wife in the past is calling her on the appropriate "bullPLEASE READ" I learned this while taking an RO-DBT class and the therapists she worked with told me this was advisable.

I had success with my BPD dad on calling him out on things too, though I went with more of a slapstick routine of what he was doing to make him realize the absurdity of his reaction.

Not in a mocking way, but in a sort of "embrace the fantasy", as in cheer him on, make jokes about the thing while at the same time leading it towards a different topic, that sort of thing.

when that is not appropriate or he's directing it at me or my way of doing things, I find it works to challenge the assumption, not the accusation. Sort of a "well, you do things one way, other people do it another, can you see why I/they would do things differently?"

By making him turn inward, he realizes the mistake, gets distracted by his own thoughts and he loses the "anger train" and things start calming down.

Anyway, just sharing some notes here

But I digress, I have to remember her illness is not about me. I am just collateral damage.

Collateral damage is still damage, make sure you don't lose sight of yourself and your needs over this. The goal is balance.

I don't really have strong "my way or the highway" values and it's what leads to my boundaries being broken, because I always am optimistic and wanting to believe in my wife (and other people in general).

This is a good trait to have, wield it with responsibility. Give people a chance to do good, but also make sure you have your safety gear on just in case.

Now, there are clearly things you are not willing to endure, case in point this situation. Just note that sometimes "being accommodating" can also be kind of uncomfortably "not reliable", as in the other person can't be sure how you'd react and have to guess and run with assumptions that might be entirely wrong (is he going to let me do it or be upset/unwilling this time? how about next time? and next time? I have to know! I have to push it again to find out!). If limits are fuzzy then there's some uncertainty, and that can cause anxiety in someone who would rather "know".

Overtime I have become more confident in when and what I can trust my wife with.

Sounds like things are settling down then. Is there a roadmap to reconciliation? like what would you need to happen for you to accept living under the same roof again? you mentioned couple's therapy, how has that been so far? progress?

I have been hustling my support network! All good there too.

Remember to keep posting!

Specially since you have some sense for what works and what doesn't with your wife, its good to share and compare notes with others in similar and even in different circumstances, we can all learn from each other and it keeps our mind sharp and ready to tackle these difficult situations (hopefully) on autopilot in the future.

[ziasquinn3000]

Roadmap to reconciliation... Well, not really. We were never really "broken up", just needing immediate space and thinking about what to do. If you're talking about living together, that wasn't near our sights. We both were on the page of needing to be separate for the whole year. She was always wishy washy about being together tho. Last couple's therapy was on Monday. She went from thinking about not wanting to move back in with me to "I want a divorce" pretty quickly. Of course afterwards she apologized and things were stabilized again. Our couple's therapist suggested we still are able to communicate in nuggets to each other so the sessions are ok to good, especially because we started it with the goal to be able to communicate to each other better. I do get pretty heated in our sessions though. My threshold for dealing with her victim cards when they directly slander my character in therapy has just grown too thin for me so I can feel a bit angry in sessions (which is good for me to an extent because I never let myself get to those points. all about balance)

Things had been pretty normalized and I feel like just a husband and wife living at separate places. We would still talk, call each other about our days. Do dinner/hang out every few days. Still have to deal with some of the dysregulated quips of someone with BPD, but it is what it is. This has been very good for both of us individually and a little bit towards the relationship. Having enough time apart to not want to strangle each other from being together every moment. However fast-forward to today, seems like she's been thinking a lot about how she doesn't see me as part of her goals in life. We did talk about our plan today about getting back as a normal couple (over the next year) but later on she ended up calling me and telling me she was just manipulating me to get what she wants faster. Which is a child (I've had to battle her over this for the past half year about solving waaaay too many relationship and individual issues before doing something like that).  During our talk before the call she had mentioned some stuff about how she thinks she will go have a child on her own (insemination) and that the only reason she's with me is to get her a child and to which I said then I'm not interested in being with her if I am a "maybe" or if I am a "second choice". I told her I don't want to be that to somebody. So fast forward to the call she starts bringing that up again, genuinely apologizing for trying to manipulate me and that she did a lot of thinking after the conversation and she wants to go and be a single mother!  So I told her I hope that makes her happy and it works out for her, in a genuine and caring way. She said she thinks it's best if we stop talking to each other and seeing each other. So I was pretty mellow about the whole thing and told her ok if that's what you want and re-iterated to her a bit that I've done all that I've can for her and us in the relationship and there's not much else I can do if she wants to make a decision like this. That's when she started lashing out saying she doesn't need a man like me in her life and she doesn't need a lecture. So we haven't talked since.

Before talking to her on the phone at the end of the day, I was seriously questioning my feelings for her. If I even love her anymore. I know it's abrupt but I think the distance after so long has given my emotions and self-identity to settle. We went to an animal sanctuary today, so we drove for a few hours together, were together there for a few and etc... But the entire time I didn't feel much towards her. No desire to be close, to touch, to look at, to admire, to feel love for etc. Not out of the opposite, or resentment, or anything like that. Just an emptiness. The same with when and after we had sex after our day together. It's been like this over the past month if I'm honest with myself. Of course, with nuggets of intense passion, desire and a deep connectedness, but otherwise just a plain acceptance. I can't tell if it's compassion fatigue or if it's just the coming of an end. But that's something to figure out in due time I guess, I'm not in a rush and try to do my best going with that I know I care about her, because if that is something that is up in the air, nothing will go anywhere! I have to have clear intentions and one that I know is clear to me is that I do care about her as a person.

[itsmeSnap]

Roadmap to reconciliation... Well, not really.

There's this here: Therapeutic Separation

Goal: To reinvigorate a broken relationship that has been damaged by stress, work, children or other distractions. Involves counseling and both parties seeking to improve the marriage. Also, can serve a way to experience that harsh reality of what a divorce would feel like before jumping directly to divorce. Distinct from a Trial Separation, where the goal is to test out separation, not to renew the relationship.

Term: Three months to one year, although more than six months may lead to increased distance in the relationship.

From your post it sounds like the therapist is aware, so I'm assuming this is the case with you. I note this to better understand why separation is part of the solution.

Ok, so that out of the way

I have to have clear intentions and one that I know is clear to me is that I do care about her as a person.

You asked in your original post how to best approach it, and I think you're handing it pretty well given the circumstances.

I guess it takes time to figure things out, and particularly since you're living apart right now, it makes it much more manageable to deal with the "BPD quips" as you mentioned.

Speaking of "quips", how do they usually go? how do you normally handle them?

[ziasquinn3000]

TS sounds great. I think that's what we have both been trying to get at, but we're unsure of how exactly things work or we both almost instantly and naturally started seeing each other again/low contact rather than starting with no contact. I don't think either of us wanted the comfortableness of the relationship to go away. It's frustrating tho because it seems like we got to that point over the past week with just having "dates" low contact and not problem solving conversations.

I reiterated to her today about what I said yesterday and wanted to make sure she knew I genuinely hope she got what she wanted and that I was saddened even tho I didn't seem like it at the moment when on the phone with her. I asked her if she would be attending couple's therapy. She told me she wasn't sure there was a point and asked me to respect her no contact request. so I told her "all right i understand, no problem. i will be going and if you decide to go i will see you there. at a minimum i feel the point would be to tie up loose ends at the least, to communicate for getting the rest of your stuff and how to divorce because those 2 things are something we can't really no contact about and it might be best to do it in the presence of (therapist)" She said she thinks she needs some time before she is able to sit and talk about those things. So I told her I hear her and to let me know when she is ready.

Not much left to do since she asked for no contact. Usually her push-pull cycle is every 3 days (in the past), so I'm sure she will end up coming to couple's on Monday.

As far as quips. She has a habit of being incredibly hypocritical and very quick to criticize/judge me. She'll usually claim I'm thinking all or nothing. She tries to make me catch the BPD fleas, like I'm the one that is dysregulated most of the time. If she starts to lash out I will go a bit more neutral and let her know the conversation doesn't seem clear to me and then she will immediately bring something up unrelated saying how "oh yeah... well, you hurt me" because of X Y or Z in the past that we had already worked past. Whenever I don't bend over backwards for her or she makes a huge request that I can't drop everything  right away (not like I don't offer a compromise) for she typically reply "Oh." like she's totally surprised  and then she will be "upset" at me and drop out of the conversation (she has told me that's literally why she ends up not talking to me). My therapist says she seems to feel very entitled which is the root of a lot of our issues.

When things were going really good, I would handle all the above by being pro-active and being assertive. I would usually direct us to something more positive and "pull her out" of her negative spiral before it got out of control. Lately thought in survival mode I try to make it about myself and use the "I" statements, how either I need time to process or can't handle it at the moment. Validation doesn't really work for her anymore lately because I think she simply just doesn't care that I care about her, she's only interested in what I can do for her or what she can get out of me (because I think we're both at the "broken relationship" stage as the TS would suggest so I think it's hard for either of us to see each other as more than just an "nonentity" because of how much damage there is)

[ziasquinn3000]

She reached out last night saying she missed me and telling me all about her weekend and her plans next week (her family visits for a week). Before all that she led with that she is sorry and that it seems like it was for the best that she needed a couple days of being alone to get herself re-regulated. Ok, understandable.

She ended up coming over to watch a movie and talk a bit. I was pretty firm in letting her know that I'm working on an art test for a new job so we had to keep it brief and she was fine respecting that. She seemed really happy and like her old self, before the whole japan trip. She also let me know she wasn't planning on having a baby anytime soon after I asked if she was still on BC.

It's stuff like this that always gets me so conflicted. The rollercoaster of healthy behaviors and unhealthy ones. She's made a ton of progress from a year ago when starting DBT but then I also see the stuff like the other day where  "you're not even the type of man I want in my life" yadda yadda. I felt a lot better towards her, less nothingness when she was showing so many healthy behaviors and being genuinely happy and kind when she came over (but of course this could be the charm... but then again her pattern is she is genuine when she's like this. I know when to trust her and not to)

Anyways, I don't feel upset at all anymore and I've accepted a multitude of things but I do feel like I want some different types of relationships in my life. I've moved past the resentment of her leaving me with the bills and the money I spent on her expecting to be paid back. But I was thinking about going into couple's therapy tomorrow talking about things that I want in a relationship (avoiding the "don't" and sticking to "do" as I've learned from DBT) and until I can get them I want to do a therapeutic separation. Such as I want to be with someone that is truthful and honest. While She never directly said she would pay me for her share of our vacation she did specifically say she would pay me for her puppy that was $500, to me that's IS something I can hold her accountable to and without it being about money, she's not being truthful because this weekend she went out and bought a brand new iphone for a thousand bucks when she literally got a new phone for the same like 6 months ago already (I know, past isn't relevant). So to me that brings another point into what I want in a relationship is that "I want" someone that will consider me. I want someone that makes me their first choice(as in relationship). I want someone that respects me and my time. When she moved out she left her guinea pigs here that I have been taking care of since and I did so because I knew she had her hands full with the move-out. She said she knew she had to turn them over when she started the initial move out and that she would, but she still hasn't and has at one point verbatim told me that "you will figure something out". That's not respecting me or my time or my feelings and she's not being truthful about her word.

Overall definitely stuff I have to sort through. Yesterday I was appreciating the prospects of no longer having a person in my life that can exhibit such toxic behaviors especially one that would be my partner. We've only been together a few years, could be so much healthier things out there for the longterm since stuff like this is going to be lifetime unless we're both willing to build a life that's conducive to all this junk which would probably and honestly entail something along the lines of us never living together.

Anyone else have any insight or suggestions about maybe what to go over in couple's tomorrow?

[ziasquinn3000]

Bah.

So my wife surprised me yesterday afternoon by showing up un-announced. She showed up in a cute outfit that I like, a bag of energy drinks that I like because I am crunching on my art test and said she wanted to do something nice for me by doing all that. I cried a little bit, since it's been so long since she's gone out of her way to do something like that for me. Since I was still busy with the test I said we could hang out later and she wanted to cook dinner for me. So I went to her place later for dinner and then fast forward we were about to have sex but something felt a little off about all this. She was too happy even for her after coming back from a push-pull cycle. So I asked her if she was still on her birth control, like I asked last night. She said yes and got upset that I continue to ask her, so that made me even more cautious. I decided I would not have sex with her unless I knew she was on it and asked to see her pillbox, because I know what day she is supposed to be on. She refused and said I was doing a "power move" and trying to control her. I let her know it's fine if she doesn't want to we just can't have sex or I have to go get a condom. I used a little bit of reasoning about why she should be able to just show me but quickly let go of that and continued the night saying it's fine but my boundary is no sex or with a condom if you won't and let her know that I probably will be paranoid of the future and not want to have unprotected sex with her ever again if the night is over and she still hasn't showed me. I talked a bit more empathetically and validated the valid. She eventually told me she had stopped taking it a week ago. So yeah. I didn't judge her for lying to me and I thanked her for telling the truth and left it at that. We had the most adult conversation we've had after that and to summarize she still is fully intending on being a parent no matter what, and is going to the sperm donor next month if she can't get it from me. That's when everything was finalized for me about how I am just a tool for her. Or even if I'm not and it's just some manic spree, I can't deal with this stuff for the rest of my life. Even if she brings it down several notches it's still not worth it when I can just have a healthy relationship with a healthy individual.

It's finalized as final as can be. We had couple's therapy today, we're getting a divorce and no contact. We're leaving everything cut and dry. She isn't going to pay me for the puppy or anything like that, no lawyers involved, she went on about using lawyers and "what she can get from me" but I just steered the session into doing it amicably. But she might be dumb about the house we just bought so I might have to do a lawyer anyways (we just bought a house in November, she is on the deed but not the mortgage. She has paid $600 towards the mortgage entirely since then. I paid the entire down-payment and closing and have made all the payments on the mortgage minus $600, so that IS something I expect to be able to have.)

I guess my agenda wasn't 100% concrete. I really wasn't sure how to go about bring up the "I want's" in a relationship since all of that stuff happened last night. I was pretty set on saying we're done done before I went in, as the chance to cut away from it all but before I got there I took a deep breath and told myself to have an open mind. But the way she went about it in there, I knew I was done to my wife. I'm just a convenience, I'm someone for her to manipulate and for her to not feel lonely as she lives on her own and transitions into "building her life".

So, I went all-in and without being able to talk about what she did with the birth control lie last night (she said she doesn't want to talk about it so I had to respect her about that) I had to dance around part of the reason why I'm not interested in being with her anymore.
I kept the separation a little flexible, stuff like as far as boundaries i would be willing to still talk to her on messenger every once in awhile but no contact in person, because she's still my wife and I care about her and she admitted that being alone is difficult for her so she has my sympathies and because of what I know of her I don't want her to go into crisis mode to where she is forced to move back in with me.

She's filing for divorce tomorrow on her own. I told her I would sign whatever papers she needed. I said it's not a priority for me right now I have more important things to do so I won't take initiative getting it filed (I do. I go to a conference this week). I told her we can keep it cut and dry, any obligations she's absolved of, I told her the price to pay for that is worth it to be out of our relationship. I said it pretty calmly so I am a bit worried that this is me "abandoning her" and that she might try to come back in my life, because well, that's how BPD works.

I think NOTHING will make us work right in this moment. We definitely need like a year apart and I can worry about any type of relationship with her down the road. I have no agendas right now of that happening. I just know right now she is way too toxic and dangerous to be around.

Thoughts? Observations, questions?

[Ozzie101]

Hey there, ziasquinn3000. Sounds like you're pretty much done at this point. And that's fine. If you don't feel safe in the relationship, you're well within your rights to leave it. Only you can decide if a relationship is "worth it" and, if it's not, it's a virtue to be honest about that with yourself and with your wife.

Have there been any more developments? You said she was planning to file today.

[Mutt]

Hi ziasquinn3000,

I'd like to echo Ozzie101 and say that it sounds like your mind is made and you know what you want and what you don't want. I wanted to add that it is possible that she may want a baby to alleviate the pressure of the r/s between the two of you. Triangulation does not necessarily have to be three people in each corner of a triangle it could also be staying at work for extra hours to avoid the r/s at home or having a baby to alleviate the tension in the main the r/s. It's just a thought.