Possible recycle? Please help me do things better this time.

[Pytagoras]

Hello! I've been here for a while.

I'll write a short version of last events:

9 months ago my 3y exBPDgf broke up with me. We've been 2 and a half months apart, without seen each other, but we had never been more than 6 days without contact. Then, she came back, we've been 6 months togheter. I aknowledge later that she had her ex bf living in her house when we were apart. She said they didn't get involved with him, but it's hard to believe. Things were fine, altough, we were more distant in the last two months, mostly because of work. I had some troubles to get over her ex- being at her house, so 1 month ago i texted her, breaking up and saying that was hard to trust her now. Next day i apologized and said it was just an outburst, but it was too late. She distanced herself, i tried to run after her, she talked with me, a little bit cold, but said she wanted to be alone. One day she called me, we hang out, kissed, etc. And one night, i went into her FB profile and found that she was on a r/s with some other guy, even when she told me days before, that she wasn't seeing anyone. She started this new r/s days after we had a very romantic dinner where she told she loved me and wanted to have kids with me. It is almost has she was showing of her new r/s. Something i think usually she never does.

I went 18 days NC. In the 18th day i sent her a letter from the treasure department (taxes) of her that i received in my mail box. Next day she called me on whatsapp. I didn't answer (i was working). Then she texted me asking about the letter. Then she thanked me for sending her the mail and said that she's going to get surgery in the uterus (she is having some problems last months). Then we started to talk about that, i only answer from time to time, but always friendly. She said she was alone when she aknowledge she had to get surgery and was in panic.

We texted a little bit for two days and in the third day, she invited me to a car ride. She was in pain (physical), and she cried a lot. Very scared of her health condition. Scared of a possible cancer. She said that maybe she would leave for another town, to start over (what about her new bf? Does he mean nothing?). This all seemed to me like she was bargain with me ("Do you wanna start over with me or else i'll leave.") Then, we hugged a lot, she cried, she trembled, she kissed me, hold me so tight, said she missed so much. She said i should propose her in marriage. Oh boy. She also said that she's living with a female friend and that she sleeps alone every night (indirectly).

She was cold and almost never answered when i tried to text her before. Now it's completely different. In our 3y r/s, i was always very supportive when she had health issues. Even in the last few months i paid for every health care expenses and i was by her side always. Maybe this shocking event trigered her memories of me and she painted me white again?

Of course this is all crazy. She published romantic pictures with her new bf 3 weeks ago. Our common friends said she did that to hurt me, since she thought that i wanted to break up with her. She lied to me and cheated on me, because it's obvious that she was preparing my substitute in case our r/s failed. And now this.

As time passes, and mainly in the last few weeks i've been able to don't take things so personally. I am more detached in that particular. However, i still have feelings for her, and altough ambigous, i want to be with her once more.

That's why i started this topic on this panel. I've been alternating between this and "Detaching..." panel, because i thought she was gone for good and already idealizing the new bf. But this last events make me think that maybe she didn't totally detached from me yet.

I've been reading the materials of "relationship skills". I can use it with her, if she comes back, but if she don't, it will be useful to me anyway.

What do you think of this?
And do you think i can do? Whats your advice?

I am aware that some people here come in a crisis time and when recycle a relationship, disapear until a next crisis. I did it also. But this time, i want to be here with you guys to work things trought.

Thk You

My Last Topics of this matter:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338460.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338387.0

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[ColdKnight]

Hello,

I just yesterday ended it for good with my uBPDgf. This was her first recycle of me. During the first “cycle” I knew nothing of BPD and approached it like any other relationship. I saw red flags early on but ignored them. After four months she discarded me.

We ran into each other and texted a few times over the next year. I read everything I could to figure out how this sweet affectionate girl could have dumped me so coldly with no warning. I found out about narcissism and BPD. I was, still am, convinced she has BPD.

This April I called her up and said I wanted to give us a second try. She agreed. I thought I could make it work. I had all the tools. I would validate her, I would re assure her, as not to invoke abandonment. I would set boundaries, I made sure I didn’t smother her so not to invoke engulfment.

None of it worked. She would constantly push/pull me. Something would anger her and she would give me the silent treatment. I would send her a text daily saying “I’m not going to abandon you, I am here for you, I’m still here.” Etc. She would continue to ignore me.

After two weeks of silent treatment I recontacted her (I swore I would not) and she responded coldly. I texted her the next day explaining what I thought happened and what my mindset was. Basically an apology. She responded that she had met someone.

The first go around lasted around four months and this one lasted around four months as well

I am not sure what triggered her this time but I believe she started lining up my replacement after this trigger and once he was locked in she discarded me.

You probably will get her back but I don’t know if you will be able to keep her. From what I have been reading, unless they are aware they have a problem AND are willing to work on it then it is pretty much a lost cause. Even then they could still decide to discard you. I have read plenty of accounts on this site where they were working on it together and things were going well and BOOM its over, something shinier caught their eye.

I tried so hard to give her what I thought she needed and here I am alone again.

Take it for what its worth, I’m no one of consequence

[Pytagoras]

Hello Coldknight,

Sorry to ear that. How are you feeling now?

What you described is very common within this disorder. I think there is no formula that grant us success, and even doing the best we can, based on the knowledge gathered by all of us here, it's unlikely to be successful. Nevertheless, in most cases, we are all eager to have an oportunity to improve things. I think that says a lot about us and the situation itself.

It's guilt that holds me in this situation. I always think i can do better next time. And maybe i can improve things a little bit.

The burden shouldn't be on us like this, so heavy. So, we shouldn't feel so awful. It's perfectly normal to fail in this relationships. They are almost all destined to fail. And even when they don't, at what cost?

[ColdKnight]

I feel good that the constant wondering is over. That was the worst part I believe. Is she going to text me? what upset her? How long is the silent treatment going to last this time? When is the next discard going to come? All those things are not a worry anymore. I will not reach out to her and I highly doubt she will me.

I miss her but in time that will fade. My father told me long ago that he had once seen a clock. Written around the face were the words “Love makes time go and time makes love go”. I reflect on the truth of that often.

I can’t say I was completely in love with her but I had very strong feelings for her that could have turned into love had things been different.

I hope you are holding up.

[Pytagoras]

Hello Coldknight,

Yes, i think time will be on your side.

I am speaking with her everyday. She says i am everything she has here in this town. Calling me before going to sleep. Yesterday she said "I'm yours, my love".

Well, but i don't feel safe. I'm not enthusiastic as before.

Let's see what happens...

[ColdKnight]

I never felt safe either...there was alway that creeping fear...when is the bottom going to drop...

[Pytagoras]

UPDATE:

We've dated twice again, after the first time. All went well. Very romantic. She told me she was mine. That she tried to detach from me but wasn't able to because she loved me. She told me a lot more of romantic stuff. We agreed that if we would resume the r/s, we should have a conversation before, and arrange things in order to improve it. And both agreed that we needed to start an entire new r/s and leave the former r/s behind.

She is very anxious and scared about her health condition and said that she was overwhelmed with emotions, and only when her problems were solved she could have that conversation with me. She said she would like to start things over with me, but also was afraid that things went wrong has did before. So she said she needed some time to settle her head and to solve her health condition. Given the situation (she replaced me with another guy), i said i had concerns and doubts about that, but she assured me that the r/s with this guy was nothing. She was trying to forget me, but wasn't able to. She also said that it was a mistake and that there was no intimicy nor cumplicity with the other guy. That don't explain why she posted some romantic pictures with the guy in Facebook (that's something she never did before), but i think it was implied that she did it because she was mad at me and wanted to hurt me.

Then, one day, she said she needed some time to solve her issues and after that, she would feel better and we could speak about our future. Then, the next day she didn't contact me. The day after she called me to ask me something about the social security (in order to sign up in the hospital where she is going to get surgery). She seemed distanced. And after that i sent her a message saying that her attitude towards me changed (in a nice tone. Just a few words, expressing how i was feeling). She went silent after that. Then the next day i texted her "You don't speak to me. I understand you may have your reasons. And it's ok. I respect that. I hope you are Ok. And that everything will be ok with you. Kiss from someone who loves you." Same day she text me calling me the sweet name she normally calls me and saying surgery was postponed. I asked her why and only the day after she answered me saying that she would send me the printscreens with the conversation with the medical doctor. And thats that for now.

I feel insecurity and uncertainty. I don't know if she went back to the guy ( if so, she lied a big deal to me, with all the stuff she said this days ), or if she is just having some time alone has she said she would need, since she didn't warned me when would that begin. She went from very sweet and loving to much more distanced in a blink of an eye.

Nevertheless, I'm trying to maintain things at a good stance, don't pressure her, don't ask anything. Just be there if she needs me and talk light stuff.

And i'm dealing with my emotions alone, not bothering her about that. That was one of my mistakes in the past: overload her with my frustrations. I can't ask her more than she can give. And if i pressure her, she will give even less than she could give.

I am also validating her feelings, but sometimes i still fall in the trap of JADE. I'm so use to it... Nothing serious for now, but if we resume the r/s i have to be careful.

[ColdKnight]

That is a exactly the same situation I was in after my second chance. One day she would be sweet and loving and the next she would not respond to texts. Even ignoring direct questions for days at a time.

I would start validating what I thought was her need for space but still letting her know I was there for her by sending one supporting text each day. I finally stopped because I felt I was being needy and a couple of days later she texted.

This would go on and on. I never knew what the right answer was. The right answer is there is no right answer. The slightest thing could set them off and you are instantly persona non grata. She ignored me for two weeks one time and then about a month later got mad because I didn’t respond to a text within 48 hours.

It was maddening...

Proceed with extreme caution and prepare to be left out in the dark again

I still miss her though.

[crushedagain]

The slightest thing could set them off and you are instantly persona non grata. She ignored me for two weeks one time and then about a month later got mad because I didn’t respond to a text within 48 hours.

This behavior perfectly describes my narcissistic sister. She will take days to respond to a text from friends or family, oftentimes never responding at all, but if somebody doesn't respond to her immediately she gets angry and puts them on ignore for weeks or months at a time. She has no problem cutting people out of her life permanently for such minutia.

I am remembering a time when my BPD exgf when on vacation out of the country. I had emailed her about a health issue I was having with my dog and she never even responded a 2nd time after I sent a long email answering a couple of questions she asked. When I picked her up at the airport and had the dog with me she said something like "I thought maybe she died because I never heard back from you." I politely said that I did, indeed, respond back but she never responded so that's where things were left. She got super defensive and erupted. We hadn't even made it home yet.

In hindsight, she was probably feeling guilty because my guess is she was cheating on me on vacation so she lashed out due to the storm inside her head. I think she cheated a number of times but I have no proof, but I digress.

[Pytagoras]

The thing is that she is facing a scary health condition. She saw her best female friend languish and die in front of her eyes, with some similar problem months ago ( i went to the funeral with her ). So she said she wasn't in the proper condition to face a possible reconciliation with me, and face all the problems we have to discuss before thinking to get together again. I can believe that's a good reason to her. And even for a more healthy person.

However, i also think that all of this can be a lie, that she is hanging with this new guy, and she doesnt feel very secure with him yet, so she's holding me here in case she needs me. But this second hypothesis seems too unlikely given all the situation (the things she said and done). But, given the previous lies, you never know what to expect.

I'm like you, Coldknight, i also reassured her and validated her, but also distanced myself. And yesterday she texted me out of the blue "Why do you love me?". I answered with a poem of Pablo Neruda. And she didn't texted me back.

It's really challenging, try to figure out the motivations in this bizarre minds, like in the stories you guys described here. And we can never expect a balanced r/s. My exBPDgf replaced me. But she asked me a few days ago if i have been with someone or talking with someone in the last months. If i did 10% of what she did, she'd went crazy.

I suspect she might have contacted (and maybe involved) with other guys, but i can't proove anything. And she spended a lot of time with me before, so it wasn't easy. But given all her previous history, i think that with her abandonment fears she feels more secure when she does some triangulations. She started her BPD behaviour ( rages, paranoic jealously, etc ), when we moved in together and she feeled i was the only source of love, etc. So, even if is only some chating or texting with exes or other guys, it helps the decrease of her anxiety. And I think she did it, even if i have no proof. Survival mechanisms.

Even so, i think now that i could do a lot to improve the situation, or at least don't make it worse. idk. Maybe i'll have the oportunity to figure that out. Maybe not. Let's see.

[ColdKnight]

I found a lot of reasons to give her the benefit of doubt as well but in the end looking at the big picture it was all lies and half truths. Blatant lies when confronted with she would rage.

She was seeing other men and no doubt yours is too. Women like this almost always keep a steady group of men orbiting around them. They cannot be alone and without attention so they will usually start something with one of these when they put you in devaluation phase so that they can jump right into another one as soon as they discard you.

[Pytagoras]

Coldknight,

Yes, that can be the case (that she is seeing other men). However, her health problem is in the uterus and she cannot have sex. If it's true that her health problem worsened, has she said (I accompanied her during the medical exams, months ago, and she does, in fact, have a serious problem).

If her health problem is true, and it seems to me that it is, because she seemed very, very upset and scared, it's something that is disturbing her to the core. And I don't think she is in the mood right now to be out there having fun with men (including me).

Also, she can be without men for a while if she has very close female friends with her at that moment (who give her attention). And it is the case right now. She is living with one friend and has another one very close (she works with her and she is with her all day). Plus, she is getting some attention from me.

As happened before, she takes a while to overcome the fear of getting together with me. It's not easy to her.

She is in therapy for more than a year. And i notest that her emotions are no so highened as before, but she is much more depressed has time passes, and isolating herself more and more. Maybe she is doing some mournings she never did in her life before. idk.

Nevertheless, I cannot especulate right now, but i am aware of the possibilities, even the most unpleasant. I'm trying not to create any illusions, because what you said, Coldknight, is very present in my mind as a possibility, or even, the most probable one.

I have no other choice but to wait, and do my life in the meanwhile. I have the feeling that all of this will be solved quite soon.

[ColdKnight]

She is unable to have sex? Have you had sex with her? If so was it recent?

Ask yourself this: If you had a serious medical problem that did not allow you to have sex, would you still want to be with this woman (I assume you have strong feelings for her if not love her)

If you were at your worst in life would you want her to be by your side?

If she wanted to be there she would just like you would. It is very simple but we (yes myself include at this very moment) make excuses and delude ourselves to make ourselves feel better.

It sounds harsh but it is true...

[Pytagoras]

Me and her don't have sex for a long time. Since she began feeling pain and started with this problems.

Of course if i had some kind of health problem, i would like to be by her side, but she is not me, and she faces some very diferent emotional dilemas. To be with me, after what we've been through, it's an high emotional situation.

She said she wants to be with me, but the actual health issues don't let her concentrate in nothing else. She continues to interact with me, almost everyday. She said that if we don't reconcile, she will move to another town. Maybe she can't handle more emotions at the time. She is afraid of dying or not been able to have kids in the future, wich is her dream. She said everything leads her to this problem, so she can't concentrate in nothing else.

And she asked for my patience and to be by her side, until she gets fine.

I'm not saying you are wrong. You are probably right. And I know it. I just can't say that for a fact. it's not 100% sure.

I think there are just two options:

1 - She returned to this new guy, but she's not feeling very secure with him, so she is keeping me here, wich makes her feel safer, in case something goes wrong (in this option, the worsen of the health condition is a lie);

2 - She wants to reconcile with me, but given the actual moment, she can't deal with that right now, so she is keeping me here (in this option, the worsen of the health condition is true, and i understand she can't do better).

In any case, it seems very obvious to me that she is trying to keep me here for a while.

The odds may be 90% - 10%, but still, i have no other option as to wait and see what happens...

[ColdKnight]

You are communicating with her on a daily basis which seems good. I assume this is by text. What do you talk about?

[Pytagoras]

Hello Coldknight.

Not by text. Calls. Sometimes half an hour calls. And she calls me "my love" and other cute names she invented for me. We talk about everything. She asks for how was my day, i ask for hers. Mainly she speaks of herself as always. Sometimes we have romantic jokes, etc.

Nevertheless i am here for update. Sorry for the delay, but i was waiting to see any real developments. And my situation seemed stuck.

So, she get surgery on 2th September. She called me right before, and then right after. Then again some hours later.

We were getting closer. My birthday was on 6th September. She was in pain, from the recovery but we went somewhere to celebrate, just for a little while, because she was in pain. She said she wouldn't do this for anyone in the world but me. She calls me "love" in each phrase, kisses me in mouth when goes away. Calls me right after.

I was romantic with her a few times, with some surprises.

As days were passing by, we always talked nicely with each other, always warm, with no fights. But i noticed she almost never answered my calls or texts in the morning or afternoon. But always called me at dusk or night, sometimes before go to bed. I gave up calling her in day time. She said she was getting better from the surgery. But there were several things that i feeled suspicious about. Altough she called me love and talked nicely to me, she seemed distanced. Calls me just for 10 minutes and than said she had to hang up to do something and would call me back, but sometimes didn't. I then stoped calling her and most of the times she was the one to do it.

I think that if she wanted to be with me, and she loved me as she says she did, it would be obvious that she wanted to share more time and other things with me, spend the night with me, hang out more, but no, nothing. It started to be more obvious that something was going on. So, 3 days ago i texted her asking what was going on. If she still wanted to be with me. In a nice way. She called me after (in the evening, as always), but i didn't answer because i didn't noticed. She called me again later. I was already sleeping. She called me next day and we spoke. She said she would answer my questions. She said she was undecided about going to another country, to improve her financial status ( this from a person who never had problems getting employed ), and she needed time to think. I said i could help her. She said she didn't want any help. It was her problem alone.

I didn't believe this story. I think the most likely is that she wants to maintain me here, altough doesn't want do really be with me, and since her health condition story is no longer available, because she improved, now she says "I need time to think if i go to another country or not". It also could be with other objectives, but in everyway, it seems like manipulation to me. And the bottomline is: I'm here and she doesn't really want to be with me, or she would.

I texted after "Your response told me everythink i needed to know". And it's true.

After that i discovered she is in "a relationship" in facebook ( a few days ago she was single ). Is it with me? Is it with another person? With no one and it's just to annoy me ? Who knows ? Everything seemed to be just a repetition of the previous chapter. Discovering she is in a relationship on facebook...

I texted her "And so you are in a relationship. Congratulations "

After that, i never went to my phone again (it was yesterday).

And that was it. It's been a hard time to me this days, to trust anything she says, and to know whats happening between so much uncertainty.

This time i don't feel guit. Because I did everything to validate her. We never fighted, it was always a nice interaction.

i don't know if she will ever try to contact me again, but i think she will. I don't know if i will answer. I don't think so. She interrupted my grieving saying she missed me so much and loved me so much and would like to be with me, and then after it seemed that she didn't wanted to really be with me. I was in my 18th day NC. So disrepectful. I have to get back to my grieving and NC again, starting today, day one.

Tks everyone for being there.

[Pytagoras]

Hello everyone!

I manage to speak with a friend we have in common and what he said to me was a shocking revelation.

He said that she cheated me several times, and that she was dating a guy 3 months ago, without my knowledge, that she was bragging about the sexual activity with that guy.

Plus, he said that she says awful things about me to other people.

And that she wanted to steal money from me and give it to him, to keep it for her. He declined.

He apologized for only telling me this things now, but it was trying not to interfere.

Now, aparently, she met a guy from our country but that lives in another country. And she wants to move with him to that country.
He said that she is crazy with new guy, saying that he is the love of her life, etc. (met him 15 days ago). Also, he is 34, but he never had any gf before. She had 1000 bf (no joke). I think that moving to another country will triger her fears quickly, as she will depend more on him. I'm sorry about that guy.

From my point of view, she was detaching from me, but keeping me here, while moving on this datings and adventures. Even now, with this new guy, she still kissed, said "my love" and other stuff, and ask me to wait for her, without telling me the truth.

The friend we have in common says that when things go wrong in the other country, with the other guy, she will need to return, and i will be the number one in line that she will remember.

My only objective now is to detach and mourn. It will not be easy...

It's not being easy. First night i discovered this, i didn't slept at all. Now it's day 2. And NC for 5 days.

I had bpd gfs before, but this is by far, the craziest girl i ever dated, and even, that i ever met. Maybe she's not only BPD, as i recognize in her some Psychopat and Narcisist traits. The lies and machievelian way she does things...

What she doesnt realize is that she is the main person harmed by
herself.

I don't think that is possible to ever have a long r/s with her. She is a really catch 22. If you establish boundaries, she dates other guys, if you are her servant, she is pleased, but just for a while. If you continue to be her servant, she will mantain you there, but looses atraction and will have sex with other guys. If you are more assertive or even agressive, she feels more atraction (she feels atraction for the abusers, because she is a professional victim), but will distance from you and date other guys. Dating other guys is the way she have to reduce anxiety and her fears, i think (some years before, it was the drugs, as she was a strong adict). With every main bf she had, she dated several others in the meanwhile, and i was not the exception.

Maybe i'll create a topic in the "detaching" forum. idk.