Help I'm feeling jelous about the new victim and competitive

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone,

  I don't post very often. I mainly lurk. One of the reasons I rarely post is because I feel embarassed. I have a couple confessions to make. 1 is that I'm still in contact with my uexBPD. The longest we've gone is about 36 days (getting close to setting a new record any day now). I also feel some shame because I've contacted him a few times, and I keep responding to his contacts. There's one more biggie. I've done something really bad... .I have access to his email and fb. I spy all the time  (hangs head). I know it's wrong, before  him I was always discouraging my friends from snooping. I don't know what's happened to my morals. Yet I'm so releaved I have the info I do. There have been a few times where he's contacted me with some message about how much he misses me ect. My heart will fill up with happiness (pathetic I know). My head will say (and my friends) wait a minute this probably is more about him feeling lonely than about you. So I'll snoop, and sure enough I'll find out he's also messaged other past victims. And you wanna hear something really sad. I'll actually get some satisfaction from the fact that the messages to me seem the most heartfelt/intimate.

So I got a Valentines contact. It was a pretty intense one, he was talking about how much he missed me, how he thought he could find the same love but it be accesseable (we were ldr), and how that was a mistake, how miserable he is without me. Oh and this gem "I think, you are definitely one of the only worthy of my complete and utter devotion". I was curious to see if he'd messaged others. Sure enough he did. His other contacts have been more general. Hi how've you been kinda things. Then I check to see if he's message anyone else after my response to his message and he did. His latest victim who apparently wasn't paying him enough attention after he acted like she meant nothing to him. His message to her was even more heartfelt than mine. He even brought up in the message how he hasn't felt this way about someone since when him and I first started talking. I was so sad when I read the message. I felt jealous cause, it was more heartfelt than what he wrote me or has ever written me. He even used one of my lines in the subject heading  and said some of the same stuff he used to say about me  . It just really feels like I meant nothing. It's driving me crazy cause, she is everything I'm not. She seems so perfect for him. I can't help it I'm jealous. Plus I feel competitive like, I want thing to progress with the guy I'm seeing before things do with them. Like this sick feeling of competition like, whatever we're going to become a couple before they do. Ughh I know it's messed up. Sorry this is so long... .

[shopgirl]

Hi everyone,

  I don't post very often. I mainly lurk. One of the reasons I rarely post is because I feel embarassed. I have a couple confessions to make. 1 is that I'm still in contact with my uexBPD. The longest we've gone is about 36 days (getting close to setting a new record any day now). I also feel some shame because I've contacted him a few times, and I keep responding to his contacts. There's one more biggie. I've done something really bad... .I have access to his email and fb. I spy all the time  (hangs head). I know it's wrong, before  him I was always discouraging my friends from snooping. I don't know what's happened to my morals. Yet I'm so releaved I have the info I do. There have been a few times where he's contacted me with some message about how much he misses me ect. My heart will fill up with happiness (pathetic I know). My head will say (and my friends) wait a minute this probably is more about him feeling lonely than about you. So I'll snoop, and sure enough I'll find out he's also messaged other past victims. And you wanna hear something really sad. I'll actually get some satisfaction from the fact that the messages to me seem the most heartfelt/intimate.

So I got a Valentines contact. It was a pretty intense one, he was talking about how much he missed me, how he thought he could find the same love but it be accesseable (we were ldr), and how that was a mistake, how miserable he is without me. Oh and this gem "I think, you are definitely one of the only worthy of my complete and utter devotion". I was curious to see if he'd messaged others. Sure enough he did. His other contacts have been more general. Hi how've you been kinda things. Then I check to see if he's message anyone else after my response to his message and he did. His latest victim who apparently wasn't paying him enough attention after he acted like she meant nothing to him. His message to her was even more heartfelt than mine. He even brought up in the message how he hasn't felt this way about someone since when him and I first started talking. I was so sad when I read the message. I felt jealous cause, it was more heartfelt than what he wrote me or has ever written me. He even used one of my lines in the subject heading  and said some of the same stuff he used to say about me  . It just really feels like I meant nothing. It's driving me crazy cause, she is everything I'm not. She seems so perfect for him. I can't help it I'm jealous. Plus I feel competitive like, I want thing to progress with the guy I'm seeing before things do with them. Like this sick feeling of competition like, whatever we're going to become a couple before they do. Ughh I know it's messed up. Sorry this is so long... .

[innerspirit]

Hi shopgirl -- THANK YOU for posting this, putting into words the thoughts, if not the deeds, that a lot of us share.

So difficult to break the addiction.  When with the BP (diagnosed or not), it's Major BigTime Drama; when it's over, seemingly regardless of who broke it off,  it's what happened to all the Earth-Shaking Drama?  :)id it just dissipate into thin air?  Seems to be on a lot of our minds lately.

Spring fever perhaps?

And I think it gets down to at least Some Activity is better than none, when we're feeling so empty.  Trying to make things better, trying to figure them out, trying to keep the peace, trying to make things fair all become such energy-sapping preoccupations.  It's MIND-BLOWING when it stops or just goes down to a trickle.

I had scheduled one final Marriage Counseling appt. in hopes that he'd see the light at last.  He didn't.  So I had to announce it was over.  X sobbed on the couch, wiped his tears away and asked the Marriage Counselor when it was legal for him to start dating  -- not when it was moral, ethical, much less healthy.  This from the guy who swore he'd never cheat on me -- perhaps he didn't -- but he sure had someone waiting in the hallway.

When we got home, he confessed that he had lied and hidden stuff from his Psychiatrist.

With those issues "cleared up" for him, his pursuit of me have been minimal.  Yeah there's stuff that I hear thru the grapevine, but over time, that stuff just seems stupid and not worth my time to react to.

I think it helps to have in mind a sense of blinders, like what horses wear to keep them from being distracted by what's happening in the lane next to them.  Find your passions -- especially non-romantic ones! -- the interests that really absorb you, and make it about you.

When you've recovered enough from this relationship, you won't care whose winning the race -- and you'll be more ready for a healthier one.  Easier said than done, I know, but I know you wouldn't want to be used by someone else who needed to quickly prove a point to his X.  The better you feel on your own, the better you'll be down the road for a relationship not based on competition.  That is really a better gift to yourself -- even if he's playing the game, you don't have to.  

[arees]

Think about it - why would you want to be with this guy? Wouldn't you spend your whole life snooping", because you know he's going to have a backup plan?

He's making you feel grateful for his attention (such as it is) and trying to prove how many people want him.

Then he'll break you down to try and stop you leaving, until he changes his mind and throws you away.

Honey, you must stop. You must remove/block him from your facebook etc etc because there is no possible good outcome to this.

[turtlesoup]

They are massive copycats and I know it hurts when you find your words in emails to others.

These people are just really damaged and I try to remember that as much as possible but it doesn't kill the pain of what you once thought was the love of your life now giving you snippets of information while they live their lives away from you like nothing has changed or nothing went before.

I also had access to my exBPD facebook and email, I told her at the end of January I had these and requested she changed her passwords. Never have I seen that woman move so fast. After she knew this she gave up, she knew I knew everything. Her now reasons for us ending of course is that she couldn't trust me, it had nothing to do with her lying and infidelities. Do not beat yourself up over this. I have never done this to a past girlfriend, but then I was never made to feel like I didnt have a clue what ws going on. She would often tell me people at work fancied her, she would then not answer her phone for a few days and of course Id be thinking they were at it. Maybe they were, maybe they werent but it was all a game, it is all a game with these people and the only way for them to be winning seems to be if we are losing. There is no stability or equality.

YOu couldn't be more better off, like I said yesterday, it is THEIR loss.

[shopgirl]

Thank  you all so much for your responses.

innerspirit I am trying to focus on my passions. I am part of a dance troupe, I've been focusing a lot of my attention on that. I'm also trying to work on some of my issues. I know it shouldn't be a race. I'm glad I've recognised that. The new guy I'm involved with, is someone I've liked for a long time. I actually met him before my uBPDxbf but, he was not single at the time.

arees I know you are right. I have not wanted to be with him since shortly after we broke up. I know it could never work out with us. One of my friends who has her MA in counselling suspected even before we broke up that he is BPD. I did research and I was lucky enough to find this board shortly after we broke up. In my mind I know he is not right and we could never be right. My heart still feels for him in some ways, and i am still weening myself off the addiction to his empty words.



turtlesoup I've been weirded out by the copycat thing. He even used a nickname on a dating site that was one I basically gave him. My ex always used to tell me about all the women after him at school. So it's interesting to hear yours did the same thing. It's also conforting to know you also did the fb email thing as well.

Also I'm curious,

Has anyone found they are messed up in their new relationships? I feel like my sense of what is normal is all skewed. The new guy I seeing is so nice, he is so calm and laid back. It suprises me when he's so nice. I also find myself frustrated because he isn't all about the declarations of love and compliments, so to me I feel like  Oh I guess he's not that interested. He's not moving fast so it feels like maybe he doesn't like me that much. When in actuality he's probably just healthy.

[2010]

Shopgirl, Why are in you a new relationship when you are still so far in the old that it consumes you? At the rate you are going, it may take you two more years to heal from this.

That new relationship that seems so healthy, will eventually turn sour because of your obsession with the old.  It is unwise to overlap relationships when you are consumed in this state. You need time to undo the obsession- and you cant do that with the two simultaneous relationships going on- one physically and the other renting space in your head.

Right now, you need to be alone and sort it all out. Otherwise, you're missing a fantastic opportunity to learn about yourself- AND you will be no different than your ex when it comes to hiding secrets and pretending things are better than they are-with the new guy.

You must overcome your need to check up on, your ex- (who appears btw to be a Narcissist) first- before a new relationship. You must understand him, yourself and then why you overlooked so many hurtful things that this person did to you.  I understand, Narcissists are fascinating people- they move like sharks that never sleep and they seek attention from any source. They are garbage eaters and not discerning. I'm sure you have access to some questionable emails that prove it.

Think of a Narcissist like a fisherman on a boat in the middle of the Ocean, with no intention of landing a fish for good. It's all about the fishing.  Sure, he may land a few fish, but he has no intention of quitting after a catch, even with a pile of fish, gasping, at his feet.

If a fish does boat herself, thinking that she's a catch! and he'd be lucky to have her- she will die there.  A narcissist keeps 20 hooks going at the same time, even when they get tangled up with each other. (It's not about the fish- it's about the act of fishing) (It's not about you or me- it's about the attention we give) And yes, he'll do and say whatever it takes to bait the hook- even stealing words and phrases. These people have no true identity and steal bits and pieces from others.  Whatever it takes. They are pathological.

Hopefully, you can read up on Narcissism. The constant need for attention is due to his feelings of low self-esteem, so he sends out messages (narcissistic impulses) to prove he still has it together. When people respond, even in anger, it is proof to him that he exists and has power. It is also a form of support to his crumbling ego. He needs. You provide the attention. Don't sacrifice yourself to his Need.  Life has better plans for you.

Please understand that the new catch and you are the same fishfry. There is no "better than" unless one fish flops and gasps higher and louder than the other. That is the lesson you come to at the center of the obsession. That cluster B people USE people like objects.  You are disposable. Figuring this out places you at the center, the NEXUS of your obsession. There is no turning back.  You have to move forward with this information and knowledge that you were used.  If it's any consolation, the new girl is being used as well.  There is never a true love story with a Narcissist- he will continue to send out emails even behind her back. You dont want to be with a person like that.

You need time to work on yourself now and the start of this is- to let go of access to his email account. Changing the password will alert him that the account has been compromised. Then you can begin to let go and concentrate on your own healing.  Narcissist's are traumatizing to us- you may have some PTSD for awhile.  If you are afraid of being alone- figure out why. The more you confront your own fears- the less you will think about trying to change the unchangeable, notably someone else's problems... .

It has to be done. x

[innerspirit]

I read that it's more typical of a Narcissist (NPD) than a borderline to move automatically to another relationship.  I suppose that means the Narcissist has the ego blown-up enough that he readily moves on; the borderline more typically is deflated by the loss.

Doesn't a game of keeping up take us back somewhat to high school?  I'll admit though, since I never liked the girl who had pursued my X for so long (and I HAD met her, rather than my X, in high school), it was easier to dismiss the whole idea.  They pretty much deserve each other.  Frankly, easier to ignore than if I felt I had something to be really jealous of.  And to top it off, when X and I were still together, she was "just friends" with him -- if that's so, that was cool with me -- but she took him out shopping so they could freshen up MY wardrobe.  Gee thanks.  Ughh.  

It kind of sucks to be the bigger person  -- who's not going to win the struggle with the BP significant other.  And who knows, if you found yourself in a committed relationship soon enough to beat him at the game -- chances are he'd find some way in his own mind to put the spotlight back on himself.

You're the person who can stop your own sense of one-upping each other, for your own sake.  Bottom line, it's about taking back your own power, that your self-esteem doesn't depend on him or a comparison with him.

Your subject line (Help!) indicates that you know that and you're healing.

[Beast98]

Shopgirl, I say this with the most sincere intentions, because I'm the king of residual contact and I understand... .

The most troubling thing I see in your writing is the incessant use of the word 'heartfelt', when referring to his words. Get that out of your mind. Heartfelt as we understand it, doesn't exist in their mindset. It's all manipulative BS designed to take you to an emotional place that services their immediate needs.

Now, if you want to take the attitude that you want to be BS'd more and better than the other victims, well that's cool too. Just make sure you know what it really is.  x

[innerspirit]

Hi Beast -- and hi again Shopgirl --

Your point about "heartfelt" resonates here.  I found myself ratcheting up X's sincerity and depth of feeling for me, to help justify myself.  It was to excuse or cover up how messed up the whole thing had gotten in my head, that I frankly had stayed too long.  Somehow if I said "heartfelt", I was trying to portray things as "normal" and I'd be less embarrassed.  I was confiding to my close friends, over and over -- the details would change but the sick situation was the same.   Several had told me "it was all about him" -- I didn't want to believe it, so I was trying to find ways to convince myself that it wasn't so.

I read somewhere that the subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality, that the chemicals aroused are quite similar.  So the sense of "residual contact", I think, sticks around in our heads, regardless of whether the contact is real or not.  And if the In-Person Drama has been pulled away, I think our addicted heads create fantasies to compensate for it.

[Cath]

Hi Shopgirl,

Sort of following on from what Beast98 said, the way pwBPD experience emotions and read the emotions of others really is so different it's hard to get our heads round it sometimes... .Our inclination is always to interpret their words and actions according to our emotional norms. So we imagine that because they re-use words we have said to them, they must be thinking of us when they say them or that when they present us with conflicting emotions we concentrate on the ones we want to believe in, not the ones we don't. And because we are given so much conflicting information, we keep sorting it and sorting it into different patterns ('He loves me' 'He loves me not' ad infinitum... .) It's natural for us to think like that, because the relationship is so confusing, but that way madness lies. You won't get any closure by analysing his messages, but you'll feel better if you work towards closure for you.

If it helps, I was in your position for several months, feeling jealous of the new 'victim' and huge loss of self-esteem as a result. I spent a long time wondering how real his feelings for me were compared to his feelings for her; still find myself thinking about it sometimes... .I really feel for you right now, going through this. But be assured that his new relationship won't last unless she sacrifices her sanity to his. Neither of them can make the other happy in the long run. She's not better than you (he probably doesn't think in those terms anyway, except in so far as his own needs are being met, as 2010 suggests). He won't get better through any relationship unless he gets significant professional help.

If he's keeping you as a fall-back relationship, you only stand to lose. You know he can move from one person to another in a heartbeat when his disorder dictates. The one advantage you have in having checked his networking sites is that you *know* he's playing you. Don't speculate too much on the reasons for it, but on the fact that he is. He can't be constant to you, or anyone else, enough to have a healthy relationship.

I know it's tough, but you probably know all this already in your heart.

Stay strong and take care of you,

Cath

[DAS]

Honey, you must stop. You must remove/block him from your facebook etc etc because there is no possible good outcome to this.

This. The temptation of seeing what they are up to is strong. But, since it will never reflect the thing that you want - that they are being loyal to you or that they are just as distraught as you - it will probably just end up hurting more... .

[innerspirit]

This. The temptation of seeing what they are up to is strong. But, since it will never reflect the thing that you want - that they are being loyal to you or that they are just as distraught as you - it will probably just end up hurting more... .

Yeah and it's hard to say this but sometimes it just felt like craving the pain.  Maybe some reaction, any reaction would hurt less than being ignored?

This is powerful stuff we're getting over.

[rosebud]

This. The temptation of seeing what they are up to is strong. But, since it will never reflect the thing that you want - that they are being loyal to you or that they are just as distraught as you - it will probably just end up hurting more... .

Yeah and it's hard to say this but sometimes it just felt like craving the pain.  Maybe some reaction, any reaction would hurt less than being ignored?

This is powerful stuff we're getting over.

So true.  It's crazy making. 

[temp101]

Shopgirl, I discovered the same night that my uBPDh asked me to move in with him over lunch, he asked another woman out on a date. Can we spell L-O-S-E-R? Fortunately, that smart girl strung him along for weeks, must have been suspicious, and never did go out with him.

As the 'honeymoon' phase died out for me (as it would consider ingthe horrible revelations that kept smacking me in the face,) I read the book "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft (you can check it out free at any library.)

I discovered my uBPDh considers himself a player. And the thing about the player personality is that they WANT you to be jealous of all the other women (I'm wondering, does he know you have his passwords? And, if so, why didn't he change them?) They WANT you to be insecure -- because it's just massive ego strokes for them.

They WANT you to be jealous and verbally and viciously attack the other women (which is exactly what would happen if you got back with him, right?) Ego strokes, ego strokes, ego strokes. It's mental masturbation for them, playing with your mind. What stuns them is when a woman actually calls them on it. But believe me, calling them on it does NOT, will NOT, cure them of their complete BS nature.

Start reading now. Save yourself from being some guys mental porn. Good luck.

[turtlesoup]

Shopgirl, I discovered the same night that my uBPDh asked me to move in with him over lunch, he asked another woman out on a date. Can we spell L-O-S-E-R? Fortunately, that smart girl strung him along for weeks, must have been suspicious, and never did go out with him.

Wow, so it wasnt just me. I found out my ex asked me to move in with her then after that went onto Gmail and sent an email to her telling him she was in love with him

I hate these people, sorry, but i do,

[shopgirl]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your responses. They've been so helpful. Iwill respond to specific comments later. I'm just getting ready to leave for work. One thing I want to clarify is that I do not want to be with him. I know I deserve better. I've known it could never work out for us within about 2 weeks of us breaking up. I would never go back to him. I know it would only  be good for a while before he just devastated me all over again. I have my own sense, this board, and my great friends and family to thank for that. I know my continuing this obsession is not healthy, it just keeps the contact, it makes me compare, makes me feel bad, and is not healthy. One of the reasons I had to confide  in you all with what's been going oln is because I want to move forward. I want to heal more and be rid of this obsession. The reason I say she is better (new victim) is that there are things about her that are better for him. The qualities that I lacked that I felt really bothered him, she posesses. I don't actually think she is better than me, she is different not necessarily better. I know he is an attention whore and that part of the reason he's into her so "deeply" now is because he discarded her and she seemingly moved on. And he has worked desperately to "win" her back. I've even mentioned to him how he is a fan collector. I've brought it up on more than one occassion (much to his annoyance  )

I just want you guys to know, I am trying. I'm looking at the self esteem issues I have, and the things I need to fix in my life. I feel the urge to move faster with the new guy but, we've been taking it slow. We've been dating for 3 months. I didn't date anyone for 6 months after my uBPDxbf dumped me. I spent a lot of time healing. I can see now from your responses and my post that I still need a lot of work. I don't feel like I need a relationship to be happy. I really need to focus on this guy for the right reasons though. It needs to be about us and how we gel. Not about my ex and competition and not about my age (my 29th b day is next month). I just also don't want to give up on the new guy because, he is a great guy and I really like him. He is someone I've had a thing for, for a long time (we have mutual friends but he was in a relationship before).

[francienolan]

This was on the "Getting Past Your Past" blog yesterday. I think it's really helpful to think of this anytime we start to feel jealous of the new victim, especially in instances where emotional or physical cheating took place:

www.gettingpastyourpast.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/fidelity-again/

[VanessaG]

ShopGirl, thanks so much for your honesty.  I see a lot of myself and my relationship and my handling of it in your post.

Like you, I am still obsessed with him.  I don't want HIM, but damned straight, I want to know what is going on with him.

I ask myself why, and I am not sure I have all the answers, but here are some of them:  I want to see if he crashes and burns in his new relationship, I want to know that he is okay, I love him to this day and care about him regardless of how disordered he is and how much he hurt me, I am still addicted to the drama.  It is a way to distract myself from the rest of my life, good or bad as it may be at any given moment.

I'm working on all of this, and I know you are too.  I look forward to the day that I don't check on the discussion board he frequents for some clue as to what's going on in his personal life.

But for now, I do, and I'm not quite sure how to stop.  And to think I always thought that I'd be the one better equipped to walk away, because he seemed so over-the-top into me.  Maybe not so much.   

Hang in there.

VanessaG

[WayneB73]

i can understand any one feeling like this, try not to though, one day  the same will happen to the next victum...

i'm home early from work yet again and started on the bozz, and this is 4 months after the split... don't feel bad because you feel upset, just try and be strong for you...

[innerspirit]

It is a way to distract myself from the rest of my life, good or bad as it may be at any given moment... .

I look forward to the day that I don't check on the discussion board he frequents for some clue as to what's going on in his personal life.

Great post!  Thanks.

I think a lot of us probably want to be a fly on the wall, to prove to ourselves that the disordered behavior kicks in (eventually) with anyone they hook up with.  It's confirmation that 1) it did happen; and 2) it will happen.

And the distraction comment is right on target -- it's the flip side of losing ourselves in the relationship I think.  So much of our attention had to be on X to stay above water, but at least for me, it became something of an obsession which distracted me from me.  So just as I looked for clues in his behavior to try to figure him out and find a way to make things change, the same habit could absorb my psychic energy now.  It's why I simply don't want to hear about him at this point but it's taken a while to get there.  And that in itself feels different -- it's not "whatever you do, don't think about an elephant" anymore, there's not energy being poured towards that resistance.  It's letting go and getting back to the present.  A process, that's for sure -- and awareness helps us get there.  When there's some news thru the grapevine, I can feel my mind start to "crank" on it again.

Meditation has helped -- the image of thoughts as clouds that pass, not to be judged but just to observe them from a more neutral distance.

[VanessaG]

Gads, Innerspirit, you're so right.  All of it.  Thank you.   

Yoga captures me so (although I confess that when our yogi asked us to set an intention for yesterday's practice, I came up with "disengagement" and "letting go" and that was about youknowwho) that I really should try meditation in a more formal way.

Do you recommend any books/websites?

(Sorry for the mini-hijack.)

This healing comes in waves for me.  Doing fine for several days, steady upward climb, then bam, a couple of days of nutty googling and thinking and lying awake.  Then more healing, then a backslide.  I have a ridiculously busy mind and it will latch on anything to be occupied. 

Boy, I have some serious work to do on ME!

VanessaG

PS  Was it Socrates who said the unexamined life was not worth living?  Hell, he'd be so <bleeping> proud of me!  And let's not limit it to OUR life; I'm happy to examine other peoples' too.   

[innerspirit]

It's funny that the words PAY IT FORWARD are printed just below the unexamined life quote.  Damn, I can put the brakes on examining for quite a while!  That psychic energy could power up a small town.

Seriously though meditation has helped me get out of my working-overtime head.  I realize that when I type meditation, I often do a typo -- mediation.  Mediation would have helped -- it's meditation to recover from the lack of it.

I have a friend who teaches meditation and she gave me some insight yesterday from a book called BUDDHA'S BRAIN.  The thesis of the book is meditation as a means to change the neural "wiring" of habitual emotional response -- sounds like it would be right on target --

Gotta get to work now, but will write more later... .

Thanks for posting

[innerspirit]

Am celebrating a bright sunny day here with the crocuses coming up in the neighborhood -- one of my favorite times of the year.  It's like they're saying "we're small, we're mighty and we're BACK!"  And I like the parable, that the flowers coming up from bulbs so naturally push thru what remains of previous years.  Business as usual for them when the time is right... .

[sandyb]

Innerspirit


I too am staring through the window, the view of Mount Leinster shrouded in cloud is amazing.

It has been there every day, I forgot how to look and appreciate what was there all this time.

[shopgirl]

Thank you thank you all. I'm so glad I've become more active here. I wasn't coming here as much becuase, for a while I wasn't spying as much (it goes in waves). Not to say I wasn't spying, it just goes in waves where it's more obsessive, and also times where there is not a new victim, the info I find isn't so interesting. Anyway, the comment about distracting from my own life rings so true. I have a lot of work to do. Work I had to do before him. I have another confession... .my room is a disaster. I actually have my BA in psych (which makes me shake my head even more at my situation. I learned about BPD in class) however, I'm not really using my degree. I'm working a bunch of part time jobs. I love my main job, which is childminding and teaching dance. They are not enough money though, and they don't really incorporate my education. Of course I use skills I learned in school but, it doesn't use my education on a meaningful level. Plus, I am in my very late 20s and I'm not financially stable, I live at home where I pay room and board. So in a lot of ways I feel like a failure. I have acomplished a lot but, there's also a lot I haven't that at my age I'm behind (in terms of societal norms). So I defintely had issues before him. Yet he motivated me. He inspired me to want more, to be more. He is very driven. When we first got together we both seemed so inspired. I remember when he was breaking up with me, he felt like he was so inspired and then wasn't anymore. And that we hadn't accomplished what he thought we would have by then. I actually see his point. He inspired me so much to make changes, move forward, and yet I didn't really. He lived two hours away from me. So I devoted a huge chunk of my energy, myself, my thoughts into making it work. Through scheduling shifts (big challenge since I work 3-5 diff jobs), driving down there, phone calls ect.

So I totally get what people mean about the energy and the distraction. I also get where you are all coming with the weather. It is a beautiful Spring day here. Full of clowds and blue skies. I woke up inspired today. I have the day off so, I slept in. I had to come on here right away. I feel so good today. I am ready, I've felt ready before, but, i know I must kick this habit. I decided to do my final spy. My feeling of needing to was validated. My uBPDx and his new victim are both on seperate vacations. Based on what I just read, things are going to go to the next level where they will become official. For my well being, I need to not be privy to this info. I have to move on for my sanity. I'm not going to change his password though. I will feel so proud of myself if I can do it without changing his password.

[shopgirl]

I decided to break this into two posts. I'm very long winded, and I know reading long posts can be daunting.

No one needs to apologize if they hijack this thread. Feel free to hijack. I've noticed that is a common theme on this board. I don't mind the hijacking. I look forward to it. It helps hearing everyones stories and what they are going through.

Also I don't remember who asked but, I have the access because, when we were together he gave me his password to his laptop. Once in a while he also had me check his school email for him. I remembered having a convo about passwords and telling him mine, and us laughing about how we pretty much use the same one or variation for everything. So that is how I gained access. Someone also mentioned maybe he knows I look. I've wondered about that too. There was an email he sent  to someone. It was almost too perfect. It completely validated me. It was what I'd been looking for. Someone who hadn't talked to him for a while was like I heard you were pretty serious with someone. He told that person was no longer with me but, went on to talk about how great I am, and his reason for breaking up with me was what he told me, the distance, and also mentioned not wanting to settle down because he wasn't sure where he was going to end up (as in after graduating). So that email was what I was looking for. I think it was after that email that I went on a stint where I wasn't spying. If only I stuck with it, continued to do me, and avoided his s, and not self ed.

[KHat]

After I began reading this forum I realized that an exbf from years back was probably NPD.  Certain threads like this one recall stuff he said to me.

There was a time when he tried to  me (although we weren't involved romantically for a long time, I was happier with NC and yet would still meet him for lunch every 6 months or so.  Having been over him, I saw no harm in it but my friends who understood better than I did how damaged he was would give me hell for not completely excising him from my life).  Anyway, this time (he married for the fourth time after we ended) he told me he had an affair with a stripper in Vegas "ONLY because" she reminded him of me.  He genuinely thought that somehow that would get me back with him.  Who can follow that logic?

He seriously thought that marrying someone - and someone he met while I was in his life and he claimed to love me - was not an impediment to my dating him.  I found him so amusingly disturbed.  It was like, back when his true nature started to show, something that felt anything for him flipped in my head and I was over him ... .although getting over the attention was admittedly harder.  It was fun to be pursued so much after such a dead marriage.

I haven't heard from him in about six months and haven't spoken with him in about nine.  The last  was too hard to resist:  years ago, when his father fell ill, I promised to write him a eulogy, and when that happened last spring, I felt obligated to come through.  Maybe he's successfully moved onto his next victim, or maybe he finally respects my relationship (or maybe a little of both).  He's the only person from my past that my current BF has any issue with, and I'm happy to be out of contact.  Reading all of this post makes me grateful I didn't know what else was going on with him - he was VERY secretive and dominant (think the Godfather). 

But somehow I reached a point where it just clicked - his damage did not in any way make me less worthy of love and commitment.  That moment that he went from an object of longing to an object of amusement was wonderful.  I wish it for you too.

[shopgirl]

Thanks KHat for your post, especially the  definition. I'd read it when i first joined but, I guess some how I thought it also meant trying to gain your affection/attention whether through direct contact, or indirect things such as fb or ms status changes to get a reaction out of you.

Hmm maybe I better take a look at the project I did on NPD some seem to think he's NPD as opposed to BPD.

[poppybb]

i think if you obtain access to their emails etc it can be helpful in really dissecting the BS we get subjected to . i had a similar situation , my ex bf left his gmail open on my mac . for a week i monitored and read through all the emails , and as  shopgirls experience , i to saw similar emails to other women , usage of my words etc , it broke my heart ... .but it was exactly the confirmations  i needed to start the journey to learn and help myself out of the web of toxic chaos that was he .


i pulled back and have been pretty good for 3 mths , he suddenly gets back in touch and spills undying love to me last weekend ... .i just wonder if its because he finally saw i had really started to emotionally disengage , their very smart like this , scarily so sometimes , i could feel the pull , its so dangerous , i ran to therapy this week , knowing i was getting sucked back in , its so painful ... .

i was actually starting to feel calm with him this week , thinking wow , he is making so much effort etc , but of course day 4 and he starts been tricky already , he wanted to break my spirit , he told me the girl he was seeing after me ( well during ) he constantly cheated , got pregnant, though she choose to not keep the pregnancy , it was like someone punched me in the stomach , i was so shocked ... .and that changed my mood entirely , anger , then tears , part of me thinks he wanted this , he wanted to see me sad and vunerable ... .as id been so damn tough this week prior and it was unnerving him . cruel cruel cruel ... .i hadn't considered this motive until my therapist pointed it out . it of course has brought back a lot of emotions .

i was jealous of her , having gone thru this with him may of brought them closer etc , after he had said it was me he loved etc , left me so confused . ugh .

so much of the getting sucked back in is really my need to be loved , my desire to want to feel worthy , that is the part id like to fix now , not him .

people here say that no contact is the only way to truly help yourself , that  you have to be away from the chaos that is BPD to reflect and help yourself get stronger . im trying to go back to this tactic .

[poppybb]

But somehow I reached a point where it just clicked - his damage did not in any way make me less worthy of love and commitment.  That moment that he went from an object of longing to an object of amusement was wonderful.  I wish it for you too.[/quote]
i love this quote , on a day when i have my soh in tact , i'll share with my GF's  and talk about the madness , other days i still get very sad . hopefully soon i will follow the former more than the latter .

[shopgirl]

Poppybb

I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. So he also used your words? Yuck doesn't that just make you sick? I agree with you. I feel like they do have some sense about us. It seems like I'll just start to feel zen and boom I'll get an email from him about how much he misses me, or a text from him, a comment on one of my pics on FB. And it will just mess with my head. The thing is, I try not to give my ex the satisfaction of knowing how much it messes with me. Even if it does bring him closer together with her Oh well. It is her problem now not yours. It's hard not to be jealous of the new victim, especially when you think about how they're telling the new victim all these things, and idealizing the new victim to the new as well as their friends and fam. Like others have said this will not last, and really it's not like they're a prize.  

You know what just occured to me? My ex always used to say all these wonderful things about me, even after we broke up. Now he's saying all these great things about the new girl. Plus she has the qualities he wanted me to have but, I didn't (even stupid things like how he'd get annoyed I'm a bit of a picky eater and don't like seafood). The thing is, those wonderful things he said about me still exist. They are still part of me. Whether he still believes them or not. I'm still that "incredilbly sweet, caring, bright spirit". I don't know why I get so caught up on the fact that he might not think that about me. Or might think the new chick is all things and more. It doesn't matter. I'm not going to be with him now or ever. So it really doesn't matter if he thinks those things.


ETA: Poppybb just read your next post. I am glad you are at that point. I have a long way to go but, I do get amused by many things I read. Stuff he writes me, and others where I'm like   he's full of hit_. So I do have faith and it's inspiring to here where you're at

[Interestedparty]

Thanks KHat for your post, especially the (read definition[/url])  definition. I'd read it when i first joined but, I guess some how I thought it also meant trying to gain your affection/attention whether through direct contact, or indirect things such as fb or ms status changes to get a reaction out of you.

Hmm maybe I better take a look at the project I did on NPD some seem to think he's NPD as opposed to BPD.

It is a 'fact' that pwBPD can be and frequently are 'comorbid'. That means in it's simplest form that the condition can exist with one or more other conditions. By it's very nature, characteristics and roots, BPD often co-exists comfortably with NPD.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Scroll down to the heading: Differential diagnosis: associated and overlapping conditions



and you will see BPD is one of them.

So it isn't a case of it is either BPD or NPD, within BPD can be strong elements of NPD.

[shopgirl]

Thanks KHat for your post, especially the  definition. I'd read it when i first joined but, I guess some how I thought it also meant trying to gain your affection/attention whether through direct contact, or indirect things such as fb or ms status changes to get a reaction out of you.

Hmm maybe I better take a look at the project I did on NPD some seem to think he's NPD as opposed to BPD.

It is a 'fact' that pwBPD can be and frequently are 'comorbid'. That means in it's simplest form that the condition can exist with one or more other conditions. By it's very nature, characteristics and roots, BPD often co-exists comfortably with NPD.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Scroll down to the heading: Differential diagnosis: associated and overlapping conditions



and you will see BPD is one of them.

So it isn't a case of it is either BPD or NPD, within BPD can be strong elements of NPD.

Good point, personality disorders do tend to be commorbid. I thought about that after my post. I am just shocked NPD didn't really occur to me too much. In Psychopathology we all had to present on disorders. I picked NPD and HPD. All the personality disorders were quite fascinating to me. Even though I was to focus on NPD and HPD I also read up on Anitsocial and Borderline. It just shocks me that I would miss the characteristics , given my familiarity with the NPD. When my ex and I were together I thought he was depressed. He also confided mental issues and depression run in his family. He is actually ex military, one day he showed me a letter where they were offering counselling to him. He ripped it up. I tried to encourage him to go but, he wanted nothing to do with their offer of help. He ranted about how they'd just put him on drugs. I was so focused on thinking he was depressed, I missed other things. As mentioned previously my friend (that I did a psych BA with and now has her master in counselling) actually noticed the signs when I was still in the relationship and blinded by love.

[poppybb]

Shopgirl ,

Thank you for your support .

It has certainly messed with my head, its made me very distracted again and i have a tendancy to over think and obsess at the best of times .

The attention they give us in that small moment is so intoxicating , its what the inner child in me craves , just i'd prefer it to come from a healthy individual and not him ... .thats the part i want to move onto .

The care he gives isn't the care I need or want ... .and its limited to his time and his emotional capacity... .

I guess i'm starting to recognize what I do want and what I don't want and time will help with me actually practicing this ... .

Thanks again ... .

[KHat]

Thanks KHat for your post, especially the (read definition[/url])  definition.

You're welcome, but can't take credit for that part. Seems to be automatically inserted anymore ... .

[Interestedparty]

You will always know that NPD elements exists within BPD because 'everything is all about them'.

They are selfish, self-centred and everything they do is self-serving. Hence, the using of people as objects to satisfy their needs. They have a disconnected 'right of entitlement' attitude in the most bizarre of situations, where they of all people have a right to nothing! It begs belief and actually is so laughable. I used to laugh out loud in my ex's face! And ask him if he was for real or was this his comedy act, or what?

Everything they do when they are interacting with you is about seeking validation for their ego.

Nothing at all is for you or about you. It is about them. From beginning to end.

I knew my ex was BPD/NPD loonnng before I knew what NPD was. I just called it a big ego. The characteristic was so endemic and obvious later but I thought initially he was a little insecure and so was trying to impress me by presenting this exaggerated form of the worst stereotype of the alpha male! I initially just thought it was swagger! 

[KHat]

Congratulations for having decided to do your last spy!  Maybe the next time, you can say to yourself, "what's the worst I could read?" and then just assume you did, and move on.  Not sure that would help you or hurt you.  For me, I can anticipate the pain, feel it, go numb to it, and heal from it.  But I know people work differently.

The internet is such a problem with these things nowadays.  I had break-ups where I'd keep checking stuff on the web, like social networking sites, or my favorite, the state judicial database for pending cases (one exbf is having a house repossessed, another married a woman who soon after got an assault charge).  In some ways it's curiosity.  If a friend told me about someone with issues they knew I'd look them up too, kind of like staring at the trainwreck.  Or just because I could.  Anyway, in the break-up that puzzled me the most, I knew the guy moved from the house where he'd lived when I dated him to one less than a mile from my office.  NOT ONCE could I be bothered to drive by, but I'd still look at Facebook photos and stuff. 

I'm happy in my new relationship, I wouldn't want anything to do with the old ones, but there's something in me that's still curious about how these people I was once intimate with, physically and emotionally, "turned out".  When the internet can bring you the answers so quickly, it's hard not to look sometimes, even if it's just once every few months when really bored or something makes you think of it.  I'd like to say that the trick is only to do it when it doesn't change how you feel, but I could just be making excuses for myself.   

[C12P21]

This link might help you understand the underlying addiction response in the brain to these relationships.

www.buzzle.com/articles/how-to-end-relationship-with-a-narcissist.html

Thanks for your posts and keep posting.

C

[poppybb]

This link might help you understand the underlying addiction response in the brain to these relationships.

www.buzzle.com/articles/how-to-end-relationship-with-a-narcissist.html

Thanks for your posts and keep posting.

C

Amazing site , thank you so much ... .

[innerspirit]

I have a friend who teaches meditation and she gave me some insight yesterday from a book called BUDDHA'S BRAIN.  The thesis of the book is meditation as a means to change the neural "wiring" of habitual emotional response -- sounds like it would be right on target --

Just posted the information on the SPIRITUAL ASPECTS board --

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=116268.msg1144071#msg1144071

[shopgirl]

Hi guys, I'm going to check out the links thanks. Unfortunately I've had a set back already  . My rationalization (yes I recognize I'm making excuses for my bad behaviour) is that some of the "evidence" I found, I wasn't able to present to close friend of mine that pretty much knows everything. Before I decided to quit again, I was supposed to get together with my friend, I was going to show her the stuff then but, we ended up having to reschedule. So when we were hanging out today, I ended up spying again. I'm disappointed in myself but, I'm not getting too upset. It's a set back but, I'm just going to move forward. It made things even more clear why I have to stop. Since I've been home and left to my own thoughts I've had major urges to snoop. To the point where i was even rationalizing that you guys and my friends never have to know that I snooped. Then I decided NO, I'm not doing it. It's not like you all are going to spank me if I do. I have control over this and it's for my own good. So I'm going to be forthcoming about it. If I slip I'm going to make myself acountable by telling you all. That might help motivate me to stop if I know that I'm going to have to tell people I slipped up and snooped again.

[VanessaG]

The thing is, those wonderful things he said about me still exist. They are still part of me. Whether he still believes them or not.

This really resonates with me.

Actually, a few things posted in the last 24 hours seem to have been written to wallop me in the head with intent.  

When I first stumbled on this site and realized the exBPDp in my life fit the BPD patterns, I was validated and relieved and also somewhat crushed.  One of the things I realized, suddenly, was that I was not so "beautiful, wonderful, funny and sexy."  That I was not as "special" as the initial idealization made me out to be, or the last several attempts to try to keep me in the picture, even as he had moved on to a new girlfriend.

That really was crushing.  The same low self-esteem that I'd fallen into in the disintegrating relationship with my husband, left me vulnerable to that sort of attention, and just as I started to believe some of it, the positive validation got yanked away from me abruptly.

Ouch.

Then I watch the video Harker posted about neural connections and how repeating addictive behaviors reinforces certain emotions.  Bam!  Message received.

Then InnerSpirit's post about meditation and re-wiring those emotional and thought processes, and bam!  Another message received.

I am the one with the power to actually CHANGE, not only myself, but how I perceive myself, with just the smallest of actions, a shift in attention and attitude, and self-talk.

This, I think, was the little golden nugget that Discarded spoke of, at least for me.

I'm sure I sound all woowoo and new-Agey, but I really need to set out to change the way *I* think about me.

Thanks so much everyone.

VanessaG

PS  Shopgirl, you need to check out the youtube video that Harker posted, on this thread or another.  (I'll go find it.  Here it is:  www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt0B-dJANdU&feature=related)  There's a six part video -- the first three really talk about the repeated behaviors and how they wire us to keep going back to the heroin (literally and figuratively) -- the last two or three get a little off track (for me) about the Divine, and such.  :)on't beat yourself up.  Just find a way to convince yourself to stop.  For an hour, then a day.  Sister, I am on the same wagon.  We can do it together.

[shopgirl]

When I first stumbled on this site and realized the exBPDp in my life fit the BPD patterns, I was validated and relieved and also somewhat crushed.  One of the things I realized, suddenly, was that I was not so "beautiful, wonderful, funny and sexy."  That I was not as "special" as the initial idealization made me out to be,

I've felt the same way. Especially when I've seen people post essentially the exact same lines I cherished as being special. Then it occured to me, we are still those "beautiful, wonderful, funny and sexy" people the initial idealization made us out to be. Yeah maybe we aren't perfect but, we are still those people.

I'll give the Harker vid another chance. I clicked on the link. Once I realized it was a clip from "What the Bleep do we Know" I wanted no part of it. I actually walked out of the theatre for this movie. I think that was the only time I've ever done that.

[poppybb]

.


this is all true and also i do believe that they can mean what they say in the impulsive moment , to the best of their ability . Also when they love and care for us , im sure they think they do but its not the love and care we want or deserve . Its tough I know ... .keep strong ...

[Koro]

Hi everyone,

  I don't post very often. I mainly lurk. One of the reasons I rarely post is because I feel embarassed. I have a couple confessions to make. 1 is that I'm still in contact with my uexBPD. The longest we've gone is about 36 days (getting close to setting a new record any day now). I also feel some shame because I've contacted him a few times, and I keep responding to his contacts. There's one more biggie. I've done something really bad... .I have access to his email and fb. I spy all the time  (hangs head). I know it's wrong, before  him I was always discouraging my friends from snooping. I don't know what's happened to my morals. Yet I'm so releaved I have the info I do. There have been a few times where he's contacted me with some message about how much he misses me ect. My heart will fill up with happiness (pathetic I know). My head will say (and my friends) wait a minute this probably is more about him feeling lonely than about you. So I'll snoop, and sure enough I'll find out he's also messaged other past victims. And you wanna hear something really sad. I'll actually get some satisfaction from the fact that the messages to me seem the most heartfelt/intimate.

So I got a Valentines contact. It was a pretty intense one, he was talking about how much he missed me, how he thought he could find the same love but it be accesseable (we were ldr), and how that was a mistake, how miserable he is without me. Oh and this gem "I think, you are definitely one of the only worthy of my complete and utter devotion". I was curious to see if he'd messaged others. Sure enough he did. His other contacts have been more general. Hi how've you been kinda things. Then I check to see if he's message anyone else after my response to his message and he did. His latest victim who apparently wasn't paying him enough attention after he acted like she meant nothing to him. His message to her was even more heartfelt than mine. He even brought up in the message how he hasn't felt this way about someone since when him and I first started talking. I was so sad when I read the message. I felt jealous cause, it was more heartfelt than what he wrote me or has ever written me. He even used one of my lines in the subject heading  and said some of the same stuff he used to say about me  . It just really feels like I meant nothing. It's driving me crazy cause, she is everything I'm not. She seems so perfect for him. I can't help it I'm jealous. Plus I feel competitive like, I want thing to progress with the guy I'm seeing before things do with them. Like this sick feeling of competition like, whatever we're going to become a couple before they do. Ughh I know it's messed up. Sorry this is so long... .

I guess you feel jealous because you have one flawed reasoning: you think that the intensity of his words to different kind of woman really estimates the affection he have for them. Provided the intensity of his words for you were major, you felt you were first place.

• He is juggling with lots women, not just you.



• Even if it is flattering or makes you feel good, he is a player and WORTHLESS of YOUR devotion, because of the things he does.



• He have a serious emotional disorder (BPD or not) and you can't just take him seriously. If you do, well, you see what happens.

[innerspirit]

Well, it's mind-bending to suddenly drop out of the position of Center of Their Universe -- however negative and crazy it was.  Good, bad (almost never indifferent), it's an over-the-top important role that we played.

I wonder if the adrenaline surge is something of a high, however whacko the situation.  It sure pulls us out of the emotional and physical burnout, but perpetuates the cycle.     hmm, I think I just worked out part of my end of the rollercoaster.  There were unlimited chances to try to right the balance, and the stakes were higher with each time.

Is there something of a jealousy about the new victim's Importance in the Drama, the role we had that was so crucial and earth-shaking before?

No wonder it leaves such a void, and one understood by so few in the "Real World" around us.

[poppybb]

I guess you feel jealous because you have one flawed reasoning: you think that the intensity of his words to different kind of woman really estimates the affection he have for them. Provided the intensity of his words for you were major, you felt you were first place.

• He is juggling with lots women, not just you.



• Even if it is flattering or makes you feel good, he is a player and WORTHLESS of YOUR devotion, because of the things he does.



• He have a serious emotional disorder (BPD or not) and you can't just take him seriously. If you do, well, you see what happens.

yes , I had this last weekend , the showering of love , cant live without you , etc . i believed some of it but funny it came at a time when i had started to disengage emotionally , he sensed that , their damn clever .


its funny how before i felt the intensity intoxicating and i now find it smothering .

when i look at him now i see a scared weak man ... .guess today im feeling stronger ... .little steps .

[Interestedparty]

I guess you feel jealous because you have one flawed reasoning: you think that the intensity of his words to different kind of woman really estimates the affection he have for them. Provided the intensity of his words for you were major, you felt you were first place.

• He is juggling with lots women, not just you.



• Even if it is flattering or makes you feel good, he is a player and WORTHLESS of YOUR devotion, because of the things he does.



• He have a serious emotional disorder (BPD or not) and you can't just take him seriously. If you do, well, you see what happens.

Shiro, what you said is so true!

[innerspirit]

its funny how before i felt the intensity intoxicating and i now find it smothering .

Great point -- I remember going back and forth between feeling it was intoxicating and smothering.  Maybe some of both.

[shopgirl]

I guess you feel jealous because you have one flawed reasoning: you think that the intensity of his words to different kind of woman really estimates the affection he have for them. Provided the intensity of his words for you were major, you felt you were first place.

• He is juggling with lots women, not just you.



• Even if it is flattering or makes you feel good, he is a player and WORTHLESS of YOUR devotion, because of the things he does.



• He have a serious emotional disorder (BPD or not) and you can't just take him seriously. If you do, well, you see what happens.

yes , I had this last weekend , the showering of love , cant live without you , etc . i believed some of it but funny it came at a time when i had started to disengage emotionally , he sensed that , their damn clever .


its funny how before i felt the intensity intoxicating and i now find it smothering .

when i look at him now i see a scared weak man ... .guess today im feeling stronger ... .little steps .

Good point about being somewhat removed and finding the intensity intoxicating/smothering. I find when I've read the messages to the new victim, I see how disturbed they are. The messages are very over the top, somewhat obsessive in nature. Since I see him for who he is now I   my eyes and think eck does she actually enjoy this. Yet part of me does get sad remembering when I was the receiver of the over the top affection.

I'm doing ok but, It's been hard for me to not spy. Even though we've been broken up since May, this is probably the longest we've gone NC. We have not been in communication for a month now. I have not spied since Friday. I know that isn't very long but, it is long for me. I have a feeling we're going to maintain NC for a very long time. Given that he has a new victim that is the apple of his eye and that I'm determined to do what is best and healthy for me.

[poppybb]

I guess you feel jealous because you have one flawed reasoning: you think that the intensity of his words to different kind of woman really estimates the affection he have for them. Provided the intensity of his words for you were major, you felt you were first place.

• He is juggling with lots women, not just you.



• Even if it is flattering or makes you feel good, he is a player and WORTHLESS of YOUR devotion, because of the things he does.



• He have a serious emotional disorder (BPD or not) and you can't just take him seriously. If you do, well, you see what happens.

yes , I had this last weekend , the showering of love , cant live without you , etc . i believed some of it but funny it came at a time when i had started to disengage emotionally , he sensed that , their damn clever .


its funny how before i felt the intensity intoxicating and i now find it smothering .

when i look at him now i see a scared weak man ... .guess today im feeling stronger ... .little steps .

Good point about being somewhat removed and finding the intensity intoxicating/smothering. I find when I've read the messages to the new victim, I see how disturbed they are. The messages are very over the top, somewhat obsessive in nature. Since I see him for who he is now I   my eyes and think eck does she actually enjoy this. Yet part of me does get sad remembering when I was the receiver of the over the top affection.

I'm doing ok but, It's been hard for me to not spy. Even though we've been broken up since May, this is probably the longest we've gone NC. We have not been in communication for a month now. I have not spied since Friday. I know that isn't very long but, it is long for me. I have a feeling we're going to maintain NC for a very long time. Given that he has a new victim that is the apple of his eye and that I'm determined to do what is best and healthy for me.

Hi Shopgirl , good to see you here again .

If you haven't been together since May , do you think it might be time to stop looking , do you think it might be holding you back . Spying in itself becomes an obsession , I did it to with an ex and though I learnt alot and don't regret it , there has to be a cut off point . Get the Amo and get the hell out .

Its so self damaging to keep looking , dont you find ?

I remember you telling me how you got the passwords , is there anything you can do to get it changed without him knowing youv'e been snooping .

I did it with an ex and finally had to tell them , look I have the password , please change it and goodbye .

the next BF , he left his gmail open and I had a good read ... .all the evidence I needed , I couldn't stop though and 2 weeks after , my internet went down in my apt and I lost the access , I was relieved in truth as I just knew it was hurting me and feeding my obsession .

Wishing you well .

x

[shopgirl]

Johnny and Poppy the spying did become a major obsession. I was so used to it, it was actually becoming a normal part of my routine. Not only was it an obsession but a habit. Which has made it hard to break. I agree it is time to end this at some point. I tried quite a while ago and yet still got sucked back in. However, I do not want to block FB. I like FB too much as far as keeping in touch with my current friends (planning things is very convinient when you create an fb event page), as well as old friends and family members. I am going to try to kick this without blocking the site or without changing his password. I think I can do this. I'm focusing on my dance troupe I'm part of and need to get myself together, and enjoy my time with my friends and the new guy I'm seeing.

[turtlesoup]

OK, since I actually did exactly what you did and since I've stopped I know exactly how this feels Shopgirl. However, once I did stop, and did it kinda a naughty way because I told her "you know what, change yer passwords luv" and for a couple of days I was a bit itchy but actually there was more just sheer relief. The more I cut her off, gmail lights, facebook, emails etc, the more I could focus on me.

I really think that's the only trick here, focusing on yourself so much that actually it feels weird cos you've never been so selfish. Buying myself nice food and clothes, going to the gym, setting goals in weight, setting personal goals (I started to learn to drive) applying for new jobs, and bit by bit the successes of those efforts begin to show and you can start to feel better and better about yourself.

Imagine you have a flashlight, your ability to get over this is really the ability to just turn your arm thru a 180. He is not the keeper of your happiness, what he is doing, finding out whatever you do, is actually only going to make your mind crazy, even if he is sat in all day eating cheetos today, if he goes out on dates and you find out you're gonna feel like crap. And your dates will be nowhere because you spend your days checking up on him.

I had a horrible dream last night about death and other things. We get 70-80 years on this planet, I've already done 30, I've only got 40 left, and they zip past these years, we are wasting our days... .that become weeks... .that become months... .on unproductive and actually hurtful and harmful obsessions. This is your life.

[Interestedparty]

I really think that's the only trick here, focusing on yourself so much that actually it feels weird cos you've never been so selfish. Buying myself nice food and clothes, going to the gym, setting goals in weight, setting personal goals (I started to learn to drive) applying for new jobs, and bit by bit the successes of those efforts begin to show and you can start to feel better and better about yourself.

Absolutely! That is what I did. When things happen that upset you... .time to pamper yourself in whatever way makes you feel good. It works EVERY time. Guaranteed.

I had a horrible dream last night about death and other things. We get 70-80 years on this planet, I've already done 30, I've only got 40 left, and they zip past these years, we are wasting our days... .that become weeks... .that become months... .on unproductive and actually hurtful and harmful obsessions. This is your life.

NEVER A TRUER WORD SAID TURTLESOUP!

[shopgirl]

Turtlesoup and Interestedparty thank you that is excellent advice. Despite getting wrapped up in this mess, I can be really intuitive when it comes to him and love interests in general. I have  dreams, feelings, etc, where people will think I'm crazy for them and there will be no basis and then I will come to find out I was spot on. Even with the latest victim, there was no concrete evidence that something had or was going on between them. Nothing overly flirty said, and he was flirting with other people, yet in my gut I knew there was something there. Just the fact he was even contacting her, I knew he had some interest. So now my feelings were correct. I woke up with this gut feeling there's been a new developement with them. My initial thought was to spy. I decided to come here instead. So glad I did come here, to such useful suggestions, and encouraging words. Thank you so much. You all have been a huge help. It's not that I don't have friends/family support, it's that they are so damn fed up with him (and don't get the whole BPD thing other than my counsellor friend).

[turtlesoup]

Turtlesoup and Interestedparty thank you that is excellent advice. Despite getting wrapped up in this mess, I can be really intuitive when it comes to him and love interests in general. I have  dreams, feelings, etc, where people will think I'm crazy for them and there will be no basis and then I will come to find out I was spot on. Even with the latest victim, there was no concrete evidence that something had or was going on between them. Nothing overly flirty said, and he was flirting with other people, yet in my gut I knew there was something there. Just the fact he was even contacting her, I knew he had some interest. So now my feelings were correct. I woke up with this gut feeling there's been a new developement with them. My initial thought was to spy. I decided to come here instead. So glad I did come here, to such useful suggestions, and encouraging words. Thank you so much. You all have been a huge help. It's not that I don't have friends/family support, it's that they are so damn fed up with him (and don't get the whole BPD thing other than my counsellor friend).

Great, keep it up. If you can just not snoop on your own thats wonderful. For me, at that time, i knew if i didnt tell her I would continue to look, having that ability at that time for me was too strong. I knew if i told her she'd change them and she did so in nano seconds. Mine is actually so crazy that she told me her passwords and then forgot she did, she was quite shocked when she realised. That led to loong period of mutual NC an I dont think its cos she was mad at me, I think its cos she knew she was rumbled, there was a whole lotta dirt in thos mails and facebook messages.

It was wonderful that I had that information in one way, because I know, not read about it somewhere or heard about it from here, but I knew, first hand, what she was up to without suspecting it. But i dont need to know anymore, I know enough!

[poppybb]

Turtlesoup and Interestedparty thank you that is excellent advice. Despite getting wrapped up in this mess, I can be really intuitive when it comes to him and love interests in general. I have  dreams, feelings, etc, where people will think I'm crazy for them and there will be no basis and then I will come to find out I was spot on. Even with the latest victim, there was no concrete evidence that something had or was going on between them. Nothing overly flirty said, and he was flirting with other people, yet in my gut I knew there was something there. Just the fact he was even contacting her, I knew he had some interest. So now my feelings were correct. I woke up with this gut feeling there's been a new developement with them. My initial thought was to spy. I decided to come here instead. So glad I did come here, to such useful suggestions, and encouraging words. Thank you so much. You all have been a huge help. It's not that I don't have friends/family support, it's that they are so damn fed up with him (and don't get the whole BPD thing other than my counsellor friend).

It was wonderful that I had that information in one way, because I know, not read about it somewhere or heard about it from here, but I knew, first hand, what she was up to without suspecting it. But i dont need to know anymore, I know enough!

I agree , its very helpful to see it written in black and white in front of you.

I am someone who loves denial , so to read emails was the turning point for me, as heart breaking as they were .

This very morning , my ex bf has been stepping up contact and weve been hanging a little bit , hence, ive been super suspicious something has gone down with the other woman , whilst he was in the bathroom , i opened his blackberry and searched for her name and forwarded the last email she had sent him to my address... .i deleted the forward after ...  

having read it now , its exactly as i suspected and all the evidence i need to cut NC again ... .

the woman is going thru what i went thru last year and is confused etc ... .but not my problem ... .

the irony is this time he didn't lie , he told me they were broken up , she was upset , he threw all love etc at me ... .

i need to stay strong as i was doing pretty good before he crept back a week ago... .

to cut contact again im wondering whether to  send a brief email or speak face to face ... .email right ?  ?

[shopgirl]

Turtle and Poppy icam. I've found it so useful seeing the stuff in black and white. I'm so glad I know the info I do (even if it has been hurtful). So Turtle your ex wasn't mad when she found out  ?. I guess that doesn't really surprise me. I think mine would actually get off on knowing I was snooping. I used to tease him about how he relished in his ex being so "crazy" (she was a cutter and wrote his name in blood). Poppy be careful, take everything he says with a grain of salt. I'm sending staying strong vibes your way. Remember he's only going to show you    on his terms. As soon as you show it back he'll take that    and throw it back in your face.

[turtlesoup]

Turtle and Poppy icam. I've found it so useful seeing the stuff in black and white. I'm so glad I know the info I do (even if it has been hurtful). So Turtle your ex wasn't mad when she found out  ?. I guess that doesn't really surprise me. I think mine would actually get off on knowing I was snooping. I used to tease him about how he relished in his ex being so "crazy" (she was a cutter and wrote his name in blood). Poppy be careful, take everything he says with a grain of salt. I'm sending staying strong vibes your way. Remember he's only going to show you    on his terms. As soon as you show it back he'll take that    and throw it back in your face.

Oh no, she pretended to be mad but quickly as the dawning realisation of what I must have read sunk in she just disappeared instead.

[Lost in Wonderland]

Hi shopgirl... .This is the 1st time I am posting to this board.  My BPDbf left the house after our last physical fight last Thursday and I just wanted to say that I understand how you feel!

I am soo terrified of the day he may get another "victim"  I dunno... .It's horrible to say especially since he has been so violent towards me... .I still love him.  I am so afraid of the day he completely cuts me off and starts a new life with a new "victim"... .I thought I would feel releaved, but I am not as happy and releved he is gone as I should be.

I still remember when I became the new "victim" ... His ex used to call and say how she wanted to talk to him... he would ignore her... .She came by his house 2 times when I was there... .he didn't answer the door... .He told me I was so much more important than she was. I was the woman she could never be... .made me feel so cherished and loved... .Put me HIGH on that Pedestal... .

Just remember, It's short lived... .Do you remember when YOU were the new "victim"?  How did he act?  He made you feel like you were the most important and perfect woman for him, right?

And sweetie at the time... .(I have learned to accept this) HE DID feel that way... .But he felt that way about others before me... .and I know (if I want to believe it or not)... He WILL feel that way again... .But Deep down I KNOW what and who he will turn into...   :'(

Your ex's infatuation with this new girl will wear off and he will eventually knock her right of the Pedestal he's putting her on... .Then, Where does that leave her?  She will be as stunned and shocked as we all have been ... .Maybe even finding this website for Support  x.  In a way I feel sorry she dosn't know what she is getting herself into.   

So hold on... .take a deep breathe and we can try to remember together the damage they have caused ... .To us, Before us, and the damage they will cause after us.  We are better without them right? Hold strong sweetie... .  x  ~ LIW

[shopgirl]

Lostinwonderland your post rings so true for me. I remember when I was the new victim. I rationalized that things were different with us because, he was just fwb with the girl before me. Things got really tense with them and she was his classmate but, as he got more into me he stopped being friends with her. He claimed she was taking us really hard and being really mean to him. I would encourage him to still be nice to her (especially since according to him her social life revolved around him & she didn't really have many other friends & he loved how I was so much more social)and I even remember agreeing for her to come to a party on NYE. I was like, yea it will be awkward but, if she doesn't have anywhere else to go sure she can come to the party. I guess I've found it so hard because I've just been waiting for this moment. We broke up May 2009. I joined this site sometime in the summer. I kept being nervous waiting for the moment he'd paint me black and find a new victim that would last more than a month or so. It never happened though. He still had me on that pedestal even with new victims, they were still placed on a lower pedestal than me. He had my pedestal so high that he'd even tell me how he would show me off. He took glee in knowing that new victims would see a pic of us and what they "had to compete against" he would tell me how none were as sweet as me and how they all new "I'm the one who has his heart" (don't worry when he said this stuff I didn't just eat it up. I told him he was using me as an excuse to be a player). Even though I knew a lot of what he said was him being full of crap. Deep down I hoped maybe it wasn't all crap and that I'd always be that idealized girl no one would measure up to. Now I'm being knocked off my pedestal. She's everything I am and more. And I know you're right, that she'll get a rude awakening soon enough.

So hold on... .take a deep breathe and we can try to remember together the damage they have caused ... .To us, Before us, and the damage they will cause after us.  We are better without them right? Hold strong sweetie.

. Indeed we are hun x

[Interestedparty]

We broke up May 2009. I joined this site sometime in the summer. I kept being nervous waiting for the moment he'd paint me black and find a new victim that would last more than a month or so. It never happened though. He still had me on that pedestal even with new victims, they were still placed on a lower pedestal than me. He had my pedestal so high that he'd even tell me how he would show me off. He took glee in knowing that new victims would see a pic of us and what they "had to compete against" he would tell me how none were as sweet as me and how they all new "I'm the one who has his heart" (don't worry when he said this stuff I didn't just eat it up. I told him he was using me as an excuse to be a player). Even though I knew a lot of what he said was him being full of crap. Deep down I hoped maybe it wasn't all crap and that I'd always be that idealized girl no one would measure up to. Now I'm being knocked off my pedestal. She's everything I am and more. And I know you're right, that she'll get a rude awakening soon enough.

You know, Shopgirl, this is PURELY about 'self-esteem'. Your self-esteem.

Why would you even be wasting your time obsessing about your messed-up ex and who he is with, when you have a new boyfriend and can be engaging on a healthy level with him? It would have been somewhat understandable if, like some on this site, you hadn't met anyone yet and that space was empty and therefore you had time to reflect too much because that space left had not yet been filled.

Why do you even want to give your heart to someone who has acted in such a way as to use and manipulate you and others for his own benefit and have the arrogance and confidence to boast about it to you? And he could boast about it to you because he could see your boundaries weren't intact. With another, he wouldn't have dared to reveal that. However, with you he felt comfortable to do so and he got his 'ego stroke' from you passively going along with his charade.

He didn't/hasn't put you on a pedestal, HE JUST TOLD YOU that he put you on a pedestal. He saw the level of your self-esteem and stroked your ego in order to manipulate you into complying with and accepting what he wanted to get out of any given situation and for how long. That's all.

And it has worked extremely well... .here you are obsessing about any woman that comes in and out of his life and comparing yourself to the lastest girlfriend. Not feeling good enough compared to her. Hoping and praying no-one can come close to the pedestal you feel and he told you he put you on. Hoping the new girlfriend will soon be knocked off what you see is her pedestal so that you can regain your crown. Listening to a man who obviously lacks any moral fibre or integrity basically boast to you about using you & your image to play you all! He stroked your ego to do this by puffing it up by telling you 'what the other women had to compete against',  'how none were as sweet as you', 'how they all knew you're the one who has his heart'. If that were to be remotely true... .why are you not with him now as his girlfriend? Having a lovely, strong relationship? With no other women even focusing on the horizon of your relationship? A healthy man that TRULY put a woman on a pedestal would never in a lifetime act the way your ex has.

All this is happening whilst you have a boyfriend.

Woww! Your ex has so much POWER over your life... .

You are giving away your power, expending negative energy & obsession over someone that is not worth your time. Stop comparing yourself to whoever is in his life. You are YOU, unique. Embrace who you are. Don't waste you time worrying about anybody else.

So what if the new girl is/appears more compatible with him? He is a guy with a mental disorder and 'major' issues... .so what does that say about her? You have to thank God that you are not as compatible as you initially thought and that it is over. I do everyday! I don't want to be compatible with my ex. I am way above him on every level. I say that with total confidence, truth and pride. He had to pretend to be on my level in order to fake his way into my life. Otherwise, he knew no chance in hell would a woman like me entertain who he 'really' was. And when it came to light, I didn't. It was REALLY, really, really hard because I had to reconcile and ACCEPT that they person I initially met, was not who he actually was.

Don't waste your time Shopgirl fostering such thoughts about your ex. You must tell yourself that it is a waste of time and you are too good for him and more deserving. Also, is it reallyfair to your new boyfriend? He at present has a girlfriend that wants to be the top woman in another's life. And that other man, is by far LESS than him.

Go figure... .

[VanessaG]

IP and ShopGirl, on good days it is so easy to remind myself that not only am I sexy and beautiful and smart and funny but that I am just too <bleeping> good for that guy. I am a loyal and true friend, I am able to give of myself, I am honest and secure in who I am and I have the ability to trust.

Too good, too good, too unbelievably off the charts completely out of his league, heads and tails above his ilk GOOD FOR HIM.

And ShopGirl, damn straight, you are WAYYYYY too good for him.

Move on and remind yourself of that.

I too, am struggling with cyberstalking.  I've been NC from a cyberperspective since Friday, and on Monday I peeked at a BB he frequents simply to make sure he is still alive (imagine, he is).  I'm weaning myself but at the moment, I'm feeling good about not checking in today.  I find it is when I am BORED that I am tempted.  So I go off and find something else to do.

Hang in there, ladies!

VanessaG

[Lost in Wonderland]

Now I'm being knocked off my pedestal. She's everything I am and more

No she's not, Not really... .I have learned it's finally someone else he feels like he can take over and control. ... .She is not Special... .Just like "WE" are not special to the BPD's in reality. They make us feel like we are, but in reality... .  we turn into their scapegoats to deal with reality.

  It sounds like your ex wanted to keep you there and wants to hunt the field... .(he wants his cake and eat it too)... .Like you said ... He is using you to make it seem he is SOO GREAT! See my "crazy" exgf won't leave me alone... ."She Loves me soo much" She wants me back so bad, but I Love "you" so much more, "you" are perfect for me... .blah blah... .

Does any of this sound familiar? I remember the times... .Sounds like you do too x

I feel like they should come with big fat WARNING lables   ... .when we start dating them... .

Warning: You are not the first and you won't be the last

[Interestedparty]

No she's not, Not really... .I have learned it's finally someone else he feels like he can take over and control. ... .She is not Special... .Just like "WE" are not special to the BPD's in reality. They make us feel like we are, but in reality... .  we turn into their scapegoats to deal with reality.

Never a truer word spoken. LIW, I couldn't have put it better myself. That is EXACTLY it.

[Lost in Wonderland]

Shpgrl: I have attached some articles that have been very helpful.  I have to go back and keep re- reading them to remind myself how our brains/emotions can work against us. 

When I read these articles... .they made me cry... .It brought a lot to light.

Don't get me wrong... .I am only 6 days separated from my SO... I have re-read these articles about 10 times... to try to remind myself... .Please Please take some time... .I think you will feel very enlightened.     ~LIW

www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

www.drjoecarver.makeswebsites.com/clients/49355/File/love_and_stockholm_syndrome.html

www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/Personality%20Disorders(1).doc

www.borderlinepersonality.ca/board/index.php?topic=96.0

[Lost in Wonderland]

So what if the new girl is/appears more compatible with him? He is a guy with a mental disorder and 'major' issues... .so what does that say about her? You have to thank God that you are not as compatible as you initially thought and that it is over.

Isn't one of the symptoms of BPD... .Their ability to "manipulate" others into believing they are one of the same with you?  I know when I started talking to my SO... .He Loved everything I did... .  but then, once we were "together"  (after I fell hook line and sinker)... EVERYTHING changed... Suddenly everything I had loved was slowly being taken from me... until I was (and am) left a "shell" of my former self.  Who am I anymore? I feel like I am "nothing" without him... and that WAS his goal and he accomplished his goal... Just like someone else said,,... . 

It's all about Self Esteem... .they destroy it then leave us just hanging to fend for ourselves. 

Sometimes I feel his goal in life is to make everyone he is close to as miserable as he is. 

[turtlesoup]

"She's everything I am and more" - No no no no no... .just NO!

You don't really know so much about this girl, she could be a BPD herself, she could be a sweet smiling murderess, she could be anything but even that is not the point. If a man doesn't see you for all the qualities YOU bring then HE is not worth your affection.

It may be hard to see that now but this is the truth, you are the one who is important in your life, in your future, this is a relationship, painful I know, that you will get past and he will be your past, allowing this to affect your self image is something you must battle against.

I bet you gave that guy so much love and attention, I bet it, cos we all did, and he rode roughshod over that and took advantage, a guy like that, to all our friends who don't get involved with folks like that will tell you is NOT worth you. Not vice versa.

I wont have it! I hate to see women putting themselves down, you're a thoughtful, sensitive, kind and giving woman and he's the jerk that gave that up. Remember that.

[Interestedparty]

So what if the new girl is/appears more compatible with him? He is a guy with a mental disorder and 'major' issues... .so what does that say about her? You have to thank God that you are not as compatible as you initially thought and that it is over. I do everyday! I don't want to be compatible with my ex. I am way above him on every level. I say that with total confidence, truth and pride. He had to pretend to be on my level in order to fake his way into my life. Otherwise, he knew no chance in hell would a woman like me entertain who he 'really' was. And when it came to light, I didn't. It was REALLY, really, really hard because I had to reconcile and ACCEPT that they person I initially met, was not who he actually was.

That is my own quote above LIW, so I understand only too well what you are saying.

However, I believe someone cannot take your self-esteem away if it was at a high-level and you refused to let them.

My ex 'tried' HARD to do so but I spotted every trick in the book and I played him at his own game and beyond and it totally flumoxed and dumpfounded him. He wasn't used to that. It showed me his history with other women and what he had been allowed to get away with.

He couldn't take away my esteem because it was very much intact. That was new for him to deal with. I also knew that it all stemmed from HIS low self-esteem, so why should I feel bad about myself because someone else felt so bad in themselves that they needed to take me down to feel good. I wouldn't give that person the pleasure or the power!

That didn't mean that it wasn't painful for me to deal with him, it was. I cried tears, not because I had low self-esteem but because of what I saw him try to do, the recognition of the illusion, the loss of the dream and the acceptance that I had made a bad choice and I owned that.

The experience one goes through with a BPD will show you where you need to tighten up as a person.

[rosebud]

"She's everything I am and more" - No no no no no... .just NO!

You don't really know so much about this girl, she could be a BPD herself, she could be a sweet smiling murderess, she could be anything but even that is not the point. If a man doesn't see you for all the qualities YOU bring then HE is not worth your affection.

It may be hard to see that now but this is the truth, you are the one who is important in your life, in your future, this is a relationship, painful I know, that you will get past and he will be your past, allowing this to affect your self image is something you must battle against.

I bet you gave that guy so much love and attention, I bet it, cos we all did, and he rode roughshod over that and took advantage, a guy like that, to all our friends who don't get involved with folks like that will tell you is NOT worth you. Not vice versa.

I wont have it! I hate to see women putting themselves down, you're a thoughtful, sensitive, kind and giving woman and he's the jerk that gave that up. Remember that.

What a sweetheart.        I second that shopgirl.

[shopgirl]

Wow, it took me a while to respond. All of your recent posts really made me think. I needed to really think about what you said and then come back.

Interestedparty You are bang on. I totally agree with all you just said. I definitely think he was using the whole "you have my heart" as a technique to manipulate me and others. Even at the time I did. I called him on his crap for comparing me to the others and for showing of my FB ect. Yet, I guess even though I thought   about what he was doing, I still fell for it on some level. I still felt deep down that this pedestal was real. You are very right, it does not matter if the new woman is more compatible with him. I don't want to be with him. I know he could never love me the way I want and deserve to be loved. One thing I want to clarify, i don't have a new boyfriend. I've been dating someone since the end of December but, we haven't actually had the talk about being a couple. Even still, you are correct about focusing on the new guy. He is a great guy, who is healthy, doesn't need to be saved, and I should be spending energy on him and myself. Thank you so much for all you said. I needed to hear it and it really made me think.

VanessaG I'm hanging in there. Glad to hear you are still weaning yourself off the cyberstalking. You had a slip up but, you are still on the right track.

Lost in Wonderland those statements do sound so familiar. He totally said similar stuff to me. I disgusts me to think he's now saying this stuff about me.  Also, the stuff about reflecting, I think that's true. I remember when we first got together, we met at a concert. I totally thought he was really into all the same music as me and had a love for concerts as much as I did. I later found out, it was a fluke he was at that music festival. That he liked that type of music but, wasn't as passionate about many of the same people, even teased me about some of the people I like. He also enjoyed concerts but, not as much and often felt they were too expensive. Then after we weren't together anymore, on his dating profile, he was acting like he was really into that stuff. He even messaged this one girl, that sounded just like me, as far as those interests and passion for them.You're right they should come with warning labels.

Turtlesoup Thank you for your kind words. I feel like I believe what you say on an intellectual level but, I guess on another level my self esteem is low, and I don't wholeheartedly believe them. Maybe that's why he was able to mess with me the way he has.

rosebud thanks for your continued support as well.

I just wanted to clarify something. I don't actually think the new victim is any better than me. I don't think she's at all prettier, and she's probably not any more fun. As some said, she is just more compatible. She has more of the traits he covets, and is more compatible. That doesn't mean I'm less than. I also notice with the new guy I'm seeing, has a lot of traits I like that my ex doesn't have. This still doesn't change how I felt about my ex, so thi girl being more compatible with him doesn't change how great I am.

I also wanted to thank everyone once again. It was a week ago today I went fully NC. I had the slip up a few hours later when I showed my friend some of the evidence. Since then I have not snooped. I feel really good. It's been hard but, I'm determined to stick with it. So here I am 11 months after the fact and 1 week is the longest I've gone completely NC with him. No phone calls, texts, or emails from him, and more importantly no snooping from me.