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Author Topic: not trying to judge but there is more hostility here than I expected  (Read 7166 times)
veryconcerned47
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« on: March 31, 2010, 09:49:48 PM »

I am not trying to be judgmental, but there is more hostility here than I expected towards our BPD ex's. I am sure everyone here has their own unique story. Some knew their BPD partner for a short time, some a long time, some married, some dated.

I was a typical story. I met a woman and had the most amazing experience. I really believed that after all these years my time had come and this was going to be an amazing happy ending. We shared so much love, intimacy and happiness beyond my wildest dreams. We made grand plans for the future and were living together 3-5 days a week. Then a month ago she started to turn on me over very petty things and started to act different, but would always recover and get back to her sweet disposition. Then 2 weeks ago I called her from the grocery store to confirm a few items that she had already explained she wanted. She went off the deep end and to my amazement, throw everything we had away and became very hostile. I tried to reach out to her, sent her letters, flowers, etc. Nothing worked and after 2 weeks of little contact I met her to exchange a few things and again she went off the deep end at me. She had been married and engaged quite a few times and it each case I was told the guy turned out to be some kind of monster. .There is more to it but when a friend of the family heard the story I was told to look up BPD and some of the stories of BPD relationships sound exactly like they were describing my story.

Did she break my heart? Yes, worse than ever, I thought I could trust her, it was so wonderful. On top of that I loaned her money to pay her taxes and I doubt I will see it again. So I hurt bad and I can't believe I ignored signs and let everything happen so fast. It will not be easy, But in time I will get over this and move on. It will be a distant memory. I still think the more tragic thing is she will most likely continue in this cycle of falling madly in love, all the passion, and then dumping the guy before the process repeats itself again. Having to live her life like that is a terrible punishment. Shame is her family isn't stupid but I doubt they will ever intervene. I can't help but feel compassion for this incredibly lovely woman that made my heart sing. She really blew it. I would have cherished her for the rest of our lives.
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Runningasfastasican
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 10:42:00 PM »

What you are writing about in regards to your Ex sounds really healthy and sweet... so I would respectfully say "kudos" to you... .but different people on here have had far ranging and sometimes very different interactions with some BPD sufferers, that unforunately can leave deep and long healing scars, sometimes it can vary depending on how horrific the treatment they endured... .some may have only encountered unexplainable break-ups and rage prior to a period of no-contact and the BPDSO leaving... .others have endured  domestic violence on a regularly occuring schedule as well as demeaning verbal and emotional abuse for years at the hands of the BPDSOs... .so I think that it is only human and to be expected that some could feel hostile towards their Exs... .for some of the most extreme cases, it is the hostile attitude that enables a person to break free from a truly debilitating and dysfunctional relationship... .to be honest, hostile attitudes can fade with time away from the traumatic events, and the BPDSO, however, I can honestly say that at times it can be very difficult not to feel some anger towards an individual that was chasing you around the house with murder in their eyes either days or hours prior to a post that you might put up on these boards... .take care
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Chazz
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 10:48:46 PM »

What you are writing about in regards to your Ex sounds really healthy and sweet... so I would respectfully say "kudos" to you... .but different people on here have had far ranging and sometimes very different interactions with some BPD sufferers, that unforunately can leave deep and long healing scars, sometimes it can vary depending on how horrific the treatment they endured... .some may have only encountered unexplainable break-ups and rage prior to a period of no-contact and the BPDSO leaving... .others have endured  domestic violence on a regularly occuring schedule as well as demeaning verbal and emotional abuse for years at the hands of the BPDSOs... .so I think that it is only human and to be expected that some could feel hostile towards their Exs... .for some of the most extreme cases, it is the hostile attitude that enables a person to break free from a truly debilitating and dysfunctional relationship... .to be honest, hostile attitudes can fade with time away from the traumatic events, and the BPDSO, however, I can honestly say that at times it can be very difficult not to feel some anger towards an individual that was chasing you around the house with murder in their eyes either days or hours prior to a post that you might put up on these boards... .take care

Good post... .Anger and hostility are legitimate feelings when you've been mistreated, exploited and dumped.
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veryconcerned47
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 11:18:44 PM »

Thanks for your reply. It was insightful. There is much more to this then I imagined. While my head is still spinning from what happened to me, to keep things in perspective what I went though doesn't compare to what you describe in your reply. I am still hurting really bad. I still keep waiting to wake up and find this was a crazy long nightmare. We all have our own stories about why we are here. While I am also angry as hell at what she did to me, the thought of her repeating this over and over without getting help evokes pity and sorrow for her. What a tragedy for all of us. I really appreciate the fact that this site exists. Good night.
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 11:20:13 PM »

Misdirected anger is the unfortunate folly of many. It's usefulness can be measured by the grip that people hold on to it. It's easier to be angry at something you cannot change than something you can. Unfortunately there are people that stay permanently angry and dont see the wisdom of their philosophy.  

When you are really hurt, anger serves as a catapult to get away from harm. But it can also be addicting- serving as an emotional reminder of what we suffered in childhood in the spin cycle of dysfunction.  Some people dont know any other way- they haven't been taught to get out of the spin cycle. Their anger is refreshing, cleansing, purifying, cathartic. The result is they continue purging it and never really seeing how it owns them.

It's difficult to break out of an old habit that's past it's usefulness.  Sometimes it takes an independent observation to say- hey-what else can we do with this? Have you given it any thought? If not, why?  Idea Everyone has their reasons to suffering, everyone has their timeline for dumping on other people. Some people never find release from anger. Eventually, those are the people that suffer the most. Can we do anything about it? No.  We can only remind them that their philosophy becomes fact.  The facts are: this particular person is BAD for you. Move on. Deal with it. Protect yourself.

Given time, most people come out and through and begin to process their SO as BOTH good and bad. They remember what it was they liked in the person and what it was that they didn't -and then pocket away that info until the next time they begin to let down their guard with a new person. Beneficial, perhaps, in finding out more about themselves than ever before... .Anger should be temporary, not pathological.

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veryconcerned47
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 01:32:22 AM »

This post really hits a raw nerve for me that I need to admit to myself in order to get this all behind me. Unlike the people who were abused and suffered at the hands of the person with BPD that they opened their hearts to, most of our time together was spent loving each other, trying to please each other, doing the little things that would bring a smile to each others faces and other positive experiences. Yes, she hurt me bad by suddenly going off the deep end about some petty things and dumping me. This relationship didn't have time to burn out or get to the point where it didn't feel right anymore, instead it feels like this sweet wonderful woman has become possessed and our relationship died an unnatural   cause. I just called my companies EAP and I am going to discuss this with someone who could help me move on. I need to figure out the best way to get this behind me, but one thing is certain, distain or anger towards this woman is not going to be the answer.

They remember what it was they liked in the person and what it was that they didn't -and then pocket away that info until the next time they begin to let down their guard with a new person. Beneficial, perhaps, in finding out more about themselves than ever before... .Anger should be temporary, not pathological.

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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 02:42:57 AM »

Yes very concerned... .

I relate to this. I am devastated that the man I truly love cannot be helped by me. Infact the more I try to help him - the more he would resent me and blame me. He didn't even know why he was so angry with me towards the end. He said he just was...

I find it all very sad indeed. And I am a natural people pleaser and problem solver so this went down very badly with me.

However, he was emotionally abusing me. He probably couldn't help it but he wouldn't look into the traits he was diagnosed with and I was and am at rock bottom so had to save myself and my children before I went under.

x





[quote author=veryconcerned47 We all have our own stories about why we are here. While I am also angry as hell at what she did to me, the thought of her repeating this over and over without getting help evokes pity and sorrow for her. What a tragedy for all of us. I really appreciate the fact that this site exists. Good night. [/quote]
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2010, 04:01:18 AM »

Mine hit me and hurt me, so if I am hostile towards him, you can't blame me. He was amazing and lovely when he was not raging, but he hurt me so much when he did. You sounded lucky veryconcerned to have a non violent exBPD. Some of us were not so lucky. I still find it hard to let go of someone who abused me and sent my self confidence lower than he was. Compassion has now died along with most of the feelings I ever had for him.
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Interestedparty
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2010, 04:10:35 AM »

Misdirected anger is the unfortunate folly of many. It's usefulness can be measured by the grip that people hold on to it. It's easier to be angry at something you cannot change than something you can. Unfortunately there are people that stay permanently angry and dont see the wisdom of their philosophy.  

Anger should be temporary, not pathological.

Excellent point 2010.
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Interestedparty
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 04:54:16 AM »

What you are writing about in regards to your Ex sounds really healthy and sweet... so I would respectfully say "kudos" to you... .but different people on here have had far ranging and sometimes very different interactions with some BPD sufferers, that unforunately can leave deep and long healing scars, sometimes it can vary depending on how horrific the treatment they endured... .some may have only encountered unexplainable break-ups and rage prior to a period of no-contact and the BPDSO leaving... .others have endured  domestic violence on a regularly occuring schedule as well as demeaning verbal and emotional abuse for years at the hands of the BPDSOs... .so I think that it is only human and to be expected that some could feel hostile towards their Exs... .for some of the most extreme cases, it is the hostile attitude that enables a person to break free from a truly debilitating and dysfunctional relationship... .to be honest, hostile attitudes can fade with time away from the traumatic events, and the BPDSO, however, I can honestly say that at times it can be very difficult not to feel some anger towards an individual that was chasing you around the house with murder in their eyes either days or hours prior to a post that you might put up on these boards... .take care

Good post runningasfastasIcan (your name always makes me  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Smiling (click to insert in post) for a good while. Classic!)

Excerpt
This relationship didn't have time to burn out or get to the point where it didn't feel right anymore, instead it feels like this sweet wonderful woman has become possessed and our relationship died an unnatural   cause. I just called my companies EAP and I am going to discuss this with someone who could help me move on. I need to figure out the best way to get this behind me, but one thing is certain, distain or anger towards this woman is not going to be the answer.

Veryconcerned47, your relationship was going along sweetly before your ex suddenly changed and ended the relationship. However, in that short time you developed such feelings that when it ended the devastation was so great that you had to call your company's EAP to help you move on. Not the usual action for the end of a relationship but understandable given the type of dynamic that you were involved it and the natural devastation given that you appear to have been involved with a BPD.

You said disdain and anger towards your ex is not going to be the answer. Perhaps not, in your situation. However there are some people who were at the same point as you and lacked the disdain and anger at how they had been treated and in fact felt more sorry for their BPD than they did for themselves and the way they had been treated by the BPD. This allowed the BPD to be gratefully embraced fully back into their lives, when the BPD chose to return, to be treated 'abusively' again (yes, the way the BPD has acted is 'abusive' despite the sweetness that appeared to exist) and to be treated worse than the previous time. Sometimes this abusive dynamic has gone on for months and years until the person didn't know their left from their right. 

Think of how you feel NOW. Imagine how you would feel if the same thing that you have experienced happened to you 2 or 3,4,5,6 times? If you didn't have any disdain or anger against such treatment, you would be perpetually in a cycle of pain and dysfunction because you would be feeling sorry for the BPD, listening to her excuses of why she did what she did - which would portray her as the victim who you needed to take care of, you would  be remembering the good times and you would see her as 'sweet'. Until the next time you would be left devastated by her.

Some people went through hell and back with their BPD and the moment they invoked their disdain and anger, it allowed the cycle of abuse to stop.

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little doggy
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 05:33:15 AM »

These have been very good posts. However I must say I have not really noticed too much hostility in the boards. Many of the stories are frightening and horrific. Yet the posts are usually incredibly supportive and reassuring. Even amidst the pain and distress, many posts are full of humour (anyone read the creative writing post - classic !). Every once in a while there's a good vent but I have been quite amazed at the sense of support and companionship of the boards.
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 05:48:48 AM »

I think its difficult when you've been lied to, cheated on, hit. I think the difference here is that you left and walked away when you saw the direction of the wind. Many of us here, me included, have and are working on codependency problems that were highlighted in this relationship. I am quite resentful of my ex, promising me the world, lying behind my back, the rages, you know the drill, she pretty much broke me over 2 years and I left that relationship feeling brainwashed and disguarded (even though I left her - it took way too long).

A lot of the anger is with ourselves for staying so long, returning so many times, believing she meant it when she said she would make efforts and just none of that coming through. I didn't know people acted like this, I didn't know such unempathetic people existed who could use others like objects, so Im angry. Of course I know this woman is pretty much doomed in relationships, and mine is actually not just close to pshycotic, but really sometimes coco-bananas and has so many problem spin offs (job losses, friend losses, times in mental homes) that I do feel sorry for her, its just hard when you've been beaten black and blue emotionally to have that much care for her. It'll come so at the moment I am allowing myself to be angry with her, it also helps me fuel NC.

There is a big sense of injustice for me, I tried so hard to be her friend and her lover, I bent over backwards and forgave so much but that was entirely the wrong approach, im mad at her and im mad at me. You sound healthy, probably you are not a codependent, just a guy who got messed up with a girl, saw she was BPD and left, many guys like that don't even make it to these boards.
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KMTTP
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2010, 05:56:08 AM »

I think anger is good and healthy... .also quite a normal reaction given the various circumstances.  However... .holding onto that anger can become unhealthy after a period of time.   YOU will feel anger as well... .mark my word.  Maybe not now... .but it will come... .it is part of this process... .kind of like grieving a loss.  I went through it... .just did not hold onto it for long.   'hostility'?... .I don't really see that. (on some posts I do)... .but overall people are just venting and talking about their experiences.  Some,  I might add... .are horrific.  I am just happy my experience did not evenn compare.  Everyone is different and has dealt with different levels of the BPD... .although one thing in common is that it is impossible to be in a relationship with someone who is not seeking treatment... .and even worse, has no idea they have it.  That is a fact... .tough one to swallow... .but a fact. 
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little doggy
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 06:06:33 AM »

Turtle soup, you're stuff is so familiar to me. Our x's were dementors sucking out our souls. I'm almost 3 years past separation (after 24 year relationship with psycho bp - my scars are very deep). Even today I've come from the T feeling trashed and emotionally drained (sorting out issues with kids). Its really tough and I read your pain (and others) and feel my own but man you say stuff that makes me laugh. And that's a very good thing. Not sure this answers the point of this topic but thought I'd say it anyway.
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Interestedparty
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 06:30:07 AM »

These have been very good posts. However I must say I have not really noticed too much hostility in the boards. Many of the stories are frightening and horrific. Yet the posts are usually incredibly supportive and reassuring. Even amidst the pain and distress, many posts are full of humour (anyone read the creative writing post - classic !). Every once in a while there's a good vent but I have been quite amazed at the sense of support and companionship of the boards.

I agree with you... .

I suppose it depends where you are and what support you feel you need. Some people want to remember and talk about how great their xBPD made them 'feel', how fantastic their xBPD was, how their xBPD was the best person that they have ever met in their lives and will ever meet, etc... .Unfortunately, not everyone on this board will be at that point or share this idealised view.

Sometimes to hear something other than what you are thinking or holding on to, can be harsh. It can be a 'REALITY CHECK'. That can seem hostile when you are in a certain place and not ready for that.

To others, it will be welcome enlightenment and/or validation for their horrific experiences and a place that they can legitimately say what they went through, how they feel... .if they feel angry about what they went through and express it... .so be it... .

Anger is a natural part of the 'process' of healing. Some people have had to repress all that they felt until they came here. Ask any psychologist the consequences of people that repress negative emotions. It is not the best thing to do for anyone who wants to deal with something and move on... .healthily!

Little Doggy, I have had some good belly-ache laughs from the humour on these boards  Smiling (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Turlesoup, I still remember the 'charm school' comment you made. It cracks me up everytime I think of it!... .




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turtlesoup
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2010, 06:31:33 AM »

Turtle soup, you're stuff is so familiar to me. Our x's were dementors sucking out our souls. I'm almost 3 years past separation (after 24 year relationship with psycho bp - my scars are very deep). Even today I've come from the T feeling trashed and emotionally drained (sorting out issues with kids). Its really tough and I read your pain (and others) and feel my own but man you say stuff that makes me laugh. And that's a very good thing. Not sure this answers the point of this topic but thought I'd say it anyway.

If I spent 24 years with that woman, and im not saying it for dramatic effect, Im being serious, I imagine I would be a gibbering vegetable or dead. So well done for getting out!
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2010, 06:34:27 AM »

Turtle soup, you're stuff is so familiar to me. Our x's were dementors sucking out our souls. I'm almost 3 years past separation (after 24 year relationship with psycho bp - my scars are very deep). Even today I've come from the T feeling trashed and emotionally drained (sorting out issues with kids). Its really tough and I read your pain (and others) and feel my own but man you say stuff that makes me laugh. And that's a very good thing. Not sure this answers the point of this topic but thought I'd say it anyway.

Little doggy, glad you can still laugh ... .despite all that has happened/is happening. Good for you!  Smiling (click to insert in post) May it long continue!
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2010, 06:52:13 AM »

I read most of these posts quickly, but found parts in all that are true to me.

I think if you are fortunate enough to get out early ( as much as it may hurt to be " dumped" by the BPD) you have been spared ALOT of what us others end up going through.

I have been physically, verbally, mentally , emotionally abused as well as threatened ( my life, my finances, my job , my reputation my children to name a few things that have been threatened to be " ruined"

I have been punched, slapped, grabbed, pushed, had my wallet taken, my personal belongings gone through, my children been called the worst names imaginable, my tiny dog threatened - all this adds up to a wee bit of anger.

And yes, it is mainly at myself, as I kick myself for not seeing the  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  and letting her leave the first time she stormed out, I should have said A dios, and considered myself saved.

Now I am in limbo, as I am too scared to tell her to leave, and have on the other hand come to the realization that any future with her- is impossible, due to her lack of insight, and refusal to stick by her word to get help, and do DBT.

I am mad at myself for the time I spend running to therapists, running to talk to abuse councellors making exit strategies- using MY vacations hours from work to do so !

I know that once she is gone ( however that plays out) I will be angry for awhile, but it will pass... .
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2010, 06:53:50 AM »

A lot of the anger is with ourselves for staying so long, returning so many times, believing she meant it when she said she would make efforts and just none of that coming through. I didn't know people acted like this, I didn't know such unempathetic people existed who could use others like objects, so Im angry.

Yes... .naturally.

Excerpt
I do feel sorry for her, its just hard when you've been beaten black and blue emotionally to have that much care for her. It'll come so at the moment I am allowing myself to be angry with her, it also helps me fuel NC.

Absolutely... .

Excerpt
There is a big sense of injustice for me, I tried so hard to be her friend and her lover, I bent over backwards and forgave so much but that was entirely the wrong approach, im mad at her and im mad at me. You sound healthy, probably you are not a codependent, just a guy who got messed up with a girl, saw she was BPD and left, many guys like that don't even make it to these boards.

Turtlesoup, if you are talking about veryconcerned47, he did not leave... .

Yes, she hurt me bad by suddenly going off the deep end about some petty things and dumping me. This relationship didn't have time to burn out or get to the point where it didn't feel right anymore, instead it feels like this sweet wonderful woman has become possessed and our relationship died an unnatural cause. I just called my companies EAP and I am going to discuss this with someone who could help me move on.

In fact, veryconcerned47 admits that he has not gone on the BPD merry-go-round and/or rollercoaster (the BPD cut the relationship off in it's 'honeymoon stage' but it has still had a devastating effect, naturally. Imagine how he would feel if he had? And it was long past the idealised honeymoon phase? Even if you didn't want to be angry... .you absolutely would.

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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2010, 06:59:25 AM »

I know that once she is gone ( however that plays out) I will be angry for awhile, but it will pass... .

Absolutely... .and you have every right to be angry. And yes... .the anger will pass.

Don't abandon your exit strategies and keep taking care of you and your children  x

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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2010, 07:06:17 AM »

Ahh sorry, didn't see the replies. OK if she left you and it was in the honeymoon phase and you're not overly hostile then I'm surprised, my empathy for her ran long dry, I've had periods (that last about as long as it takes me to have the thought and then go "naaaah) where I feel sorry for her but I'm still in hostile mode. If you're not then you're a better man than me!
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2010, 07:17:27 AM »

I think its difficult when you've been lied to, cheated on, hit.

Saw this thread right away today and I'm glad I did.  I woke up pretty much in a rage today.  It isn't because my wife did anything new, I haven't even talked to her.  But I woke up angry just thinking about my situation.  The hostility is off the charts.

I married her before I knew she was so crazy and BP.  I did everything for her for 3.5 years.  I basically resigned myself to dealing with her for the rest of my life because that is what I promised when I married her.  I took my vows seriously even though it would have been very easy for me to just walk away within a few months of the wedding, when I figured out what was wrong with her.  But I didn't.  I stuck with it.  I gave up major parts of my life for 3.5 years.  I was beat up.  I was berated.  I walked a tightrope every day.

And then, SHE leaves me for some jackass?

Damn right there is a lot of hostility here.
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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2010, 07:34:32 AM »

I am trying to stay angry so I can stay away from him... .

I have been emotionally, physically, and verbally TERRORIZED.  Yes we had sweet and loving times... .in face most of our time was spend mostly happy (as happy as he could be)... .But the other side of him is what I need to remember... .

It's only been a week and I still love him... .I miss him so much, I hate being in our home alone...

I can't help but remember when he held me, loved me, kissed me softly, told me how special i was, how he would never cherish anyone the way he cherished me... .I can't forget the broken dreams... .promises of forever... . 

But then I have to remember the Rages, name calling... Lying about black eyes and busted lips... .hiding bruises, all the tears I have cryed... .the list can go on... .

Maybe it's because I am only 7 days out... .but YES... .I am hostile... .I am ANGRY and if I wasn't I'd be crazy... .We have to hold on to anger until we heal... .or they will trap us in their chaos again... .(at least in my case)...   :'(
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« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2010, 07:48:48 AM »

I am trying to stay angry so I can stay away from him... .

I have been emotionally, physically, and verbally TERRORIZED.  Yes we had sweet and loving times... .in face most of our time was spend mostly happy (as happy as he could be)... .But the other side of him is what I need to remember... .

It's only been a week and I still love him... .I miss him so much, I hate being in our home alone...

I can't help but remember when he held me, loved me, kissed me softly, told me how special i was, how he would never cherish anyone the way he cherished me... .I can't forget the broken dreams... .promises of forever... . 

But then I have to remember the Rages, name calling... Lying about black eyes and busted lips... .hiding bruises, all the tears I have cryed... .the list can go on... .

Maybe it's because I am only 7 days out... .but YES... .I am hostile... .I am ANGRY and if I wasn't I'd be crazy... .We have to hold on to anger until we heal... .or they will trap us in their chaos again... .(at least in my case)...   :'(

Lostinwonderland, that is exactly how I feel.    It does get better. I promise. I am past anger, I am at that 'couldn't give a s**t stage!
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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2010, 07:50:42 AM »

Good for you, Vacuum_boots! How long did that take, may I ask?  x


I am trying to stay angry so I can stay away from him... .

I have been emotionally, physically, and verbally TERRORIZED.  Yes we had sweet and loving times... .in face most of our time was spend mostly happy (as happy as he could be)... .But the other side of him is what I need to remember... .

It's only been a week and I still love him... .I miss him so much, I hate being in our home alone...

I can't help but remember when he held me, loved me, kissed me softly, told me how special i was, how he would never cherish anyone the way he cherished me... .I can't forget the broken dreams... .promises of forever... . 

But then I have to remember the Rages, name calling... Lying about black eyes and busted lips... .hiding bruises, all the tears I have cryed... .the list can go on... .

Maybe it's because I am only 7 days out... .but YES... .I am hostile... .I am ANGRY and if I wasn't I'd be crazy... .We have to hold on to anger until we heal... .or they will trap us in their chaos again... .(at least in my case)...   :'(

Lostinwonderland, that is exactly how I feel.    It does get better. I promise. I am past anger, I am at that 'couldn't give a s**t stage!

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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2010, 07:57:03 AM »

Turtlesoup is right in that a lot of anger here is really inward facing.  

People here are grieving the loss of relationships and hopes and trust.  And psychology maintains that there are stages to grief, including anger.  This is a natural course of events.

I've seen more pity than anger among the "secondary nons" - those of us involved with someone who was hurt by a pwBPD.  Maybe because we've been less directly affected and haven't experienced that sense of hope and loss.  But I also see more pity than anger among people who want to attribute all the BPD actions to an "illness" rather than intentional behavior by a person who refuses to be held accountable.  So I think there's also a different mindset here among people who hold their ex loved ones to a standard of human behavior that they have failed versus those who believe that because the ex has a disorder that both people are responsible for modifying their behavior and expectations.  The people in the second camp can tend to take more of the disappointment in the ex's behavior onto their own shoulders.

In short, there are a lot of different emotions here, felt by a lot of different people, who experienced a lot of different things in a lot of different relationships.  On top of that, they are all moving through it at different paces and see it in different ways.  So while so many of the individual stories, like rages and infidelities, sound the same, each of these situations truly is unique and must be accepted as such by the other members.
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« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2010, 08:00:20 AM »

I think its difficult when you've been lied to, cheated on, hit.

Saw this thread right away today and I'm glad I did.  I woke up pretty much in a rage today.  It isn't because my wife did anything new, I haven't even talked to her.  But I woke up angry just thinking about my situation.  The hostility is off the charts.

I married her before I knew she was so crazy and BP.  I did everything for her for 3.5 years.  I basically resigned myself to dealing with her for the rest of my life because that is what I promised when I married her.  I took my vows seriously even though it would have been very easy for me to just walk away within a few months of the wedding, when I figured out what was wrong with her.  But I didn't.  I stuck with it.  I gave up major parts of my life for 3.5 years.  I was beat up.  I was berated.  I walked a tightrope every day.

And then, SHE leaves me for some jackass?

Damn right there is a lot of hostility here.

I'm sorry you went through this... .

This goes to show that one should NEVER put one's own life on hold to rescue and further

someone else's. They won't appreciate the sacrifice to any real extent because they were not

the one's that sacrificed.

It also goes to emphasise the advice 'Take care of YOU'.

Unfortunately, it appears the resentment and hostility is about your choices.

Your wife simply benefitted from your choices. Who doesn't enjoy a benefit?

When one makes the decision to stay in a relationship with a pwBPD, it is NEVER going to be a mutual

and equal relationship. You will always be the rescuer/forgiver of some 'BPD crisis' with little or no gain for you.

That is the nature of the beast.

Hence, the reason why some utilise their anger, resentment and hostility

to THEIR advantage and make the 'choice' to leave.







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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2010, 08:01:28 AM »

Correct KHat, Im straddling these two positions, I have a tiptoe on "oh its a disorder and we both had a role to play" but most of my weight, including my kaboose is sat on "how dare you treat me like this", but like others said, it needs to be, if I went at this point a bit soft on that, I can imagine I wouldnt have processed the fact that this woman is kryptonite to me and would think "she's ill - i should help".

So its a process like you say, I want to arrive at that second position but fully confident in the knowledge there is nothing i can do about her illness and have that emotional distance so I am also not tempted to. I can't afford to go soft half way thru... .LOL, im sorry, sometimes i just gotta chuckle.
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« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2010, 08:12:47 AM »

Hi amyt, it took me about 3 months to disengaged and a futher month to get to the stage of not caring anymore. It really was like this: Woke up last Sunday, realised I didn't care anymore.

I can think about the good times without wanting him back. The thought of his touch makes me flinch now. I don't have tears in my eyes anymore. He hurt me so much, both mentally and physically, why should I give me one more second of my time? I am the powerful one now. Not him!
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2010, 08:16:46 AM »





YAY!


That is great news. I didn't have physical abuse. How long were you with him again? Sorry if you already said... .I get a bit muddled! xx x

Hi amyt, it took me about 3 months to disengaged and a futher month to get to the stage of not caring anymore. It really was like this: Woke up last Sunday, realised I didn't care anymore.

I can think about the good times without wanting him back. The thought of his touch makes me flinch now. I don't have tears in my eyes anymore. He hurt me so much, both mentally and physically, why should I give me one more second of my time? I am the powerful one now. Not him!

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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2010, 08:45:39 AM »

Hi Amy,

I was with him for nearly 3 years. I always thought that there wouldn't be a next time... .but there was. Again and again!
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2010, 09:28:18 AM »

Hey Vaccum,

Im also in that stage atm, the contact last weekend actually was a good thing for me as it only highlighted the rubbish I'd left behind, over the past two days I really dont have any feeling towards her or crave any contact but Im still quite attached to this board and still feel quite PO'ed about what went down, but as for feeling "urgh" in the stomach and upset, that's gone. Im 3 months out in 4 days... .so i would say 3 months is a pretty good indicator to those who were in upto around 2 years.
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2010, 09:45:05 AM »

Im 3 months out in 4 days... .so i would say 3 months is a pretty good indicator to those who were in upto around 2 years.

I read once that it takes about half the length of a relationship to recover from it fully.  I wonder how that applies to relationships with people with BPD and all the coming and going and searches for closure?  I guess that depends largely on therapy and to what extent the person who is freeing themselves of the relationship focuses on introspection.  I always find that diving headfirst into a new relationship without any reflection or therapy regarding the old is a red flag.  One of the major reasons I've tried to set a very slow pace with the reconnection with my boyfriend, and encourage his independent therapy.  But as long as I remain involved with him on any level I have to make an attempt to see the world through his POV - which has been colored by BPD (or something remarkably like it) for so long thanks to the STBXw.
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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2010, 10:21:08 AM »

Oh, it will take me a lot longer to fully recover from the fleas and the memories. I just feel as I have reached my emotional plateau now. I can see him and feel nothing. I think that my brain has finally overtaken my heart. The way I was treated by him, well I wouldn't accept that off anyone, so why him? You have to put this all into perspective! It's weird, I look at him and I feel nothing. Blank. Nada. Nowt (as they say in Yorkshire, UK!). Your time will come people!
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« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2010, 10:37:09 AM »

Oh, it will take me a lot longer to fully recover from the fleas and the memories. I just feel as I have reached my emotional plateau now. I can see him and feel nothing. I think that my brain has finally overtaken my heart. The way I was treated by him, well I wouldn't accept that off anyone, so why him? You have to put this all into perspective! It's weird, I look at him and I feel nothing. Blank. Nada. Nowt (as they say in Yorkshire, UK!). Your time will come people!

Yeah! One for the team. Well, im claiming it anyway. Go Vaccum boots, well done! Please for you.  x
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« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2010, 11:05:04 AM »

Yeah! One for the team. Well, im claiming it anyway. Go Vaccum boots, well done! Please for you.  x

Thank you!    I decided I had suffered enough. Got to be cruel to be kind! 
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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2010, 11:08:08 AM »

I guess I will bring the vote to 2 about the hostility level on this board.  It bothers me, too.

For sure, anger  is a response to the awful state of affairs that went on for so long, too long.  Failure to get angry in return is part of the non's syndrome.  Etc etc.  But - many of us left because we got angry about living with so much anger.  The anger was the ironic final motivator, but a big goal was to live a life not so immersed in anger.

It's OK to vent under these circumstances, especially initially after break-up.  But I do get concerned when I read participants lashing back harshly six months and more after separation.  To me, that in itself is pathological.  And it is not helpful to me to read that stuff.  Here's a suggestion: somehow allowing room for threads or space for those who want to cope by going beyond anger.  I actually read participants lashing out at those who want to approach the issues beyond anger - as if we should be angry at the non-angry for not being angry!  So please, when some of us want to deal with issues in other than angry contexts, just let us go on in our private madness.  You can have your own space for the other path, too.
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« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2010, 11:16:16 AM »

I am not angry. I just feel disgust. I feel no apathy towards him. I am not angry, just amused at myself to be honest that I took it for long. I actually like reading about how angry people are. If you were punched, kicked, had a gun pulled to your head, would you not be angry? I know I would. I would be angry at how someone could do that to someone that they are supposed to love. People deal with things in different way and I feel that is what this board is. It is a release, if our feelings were censored and moved to another location on here, then it is almost like saying what we are feeling is wrong, and it is not. Reading about  how angry some people were made me take stock. If they were saying less harsh things I might have even been tempted to stay. I want the cold hard facts and the cold hard feelings. We are only human after all. I have a right to feel hostile towards the hit_ and what he did and said to me.
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« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2010, 11:21:57 AM »

I think maybe it appears shocking to some also because those who are not angry in that way on the most part ... .they've left haven't they, sorted out their issues, learnt their BPD lesson and gone away.

When every so often we get an oldie come back and say "hey just wanted to let you know its all fine now", well we get that rarely so the balance is skewed to people coming from L2, who are really quite invested still and others who are in the angry phase and there is a place for discussing BPD, your relationship and stuff in level 5 and 6 no?

I don't think you can hold people's hostility against them or even be surprised, some here have gone through actual real trauma and some have been robbed of 20 years or more, that's how they see it.

I also see a lot of humour on these boards, even when people are going hell for leather and name calling their BPD quite often they go  Smiling (click to insert in post) after it because they know they are just releasing.
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« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2010, 11:27:38 AM »

I agree with Turtle. If it hadn't been for these boards I would have gone mad. Before I found them I thought I was mad. I didn't realize that others were going through the same pain as me. I have learned so much from these boards and they  have built my confidence up. I am so glad that I can help others on here now and still have a rant. I am not out of the woods yet, and I am glad I can come here on L3 and release it all when I need to!
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« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2010, 11:35:16 AM »

Thanks for your reply. I agree with your points. You are correct, I would never have imagined that I would reach out to my companies EAP for a relationship gone bad, but this was different. We went from one extreme to another and it left my head spinning. The I also need help in disengaging my son who misses her and her son. Normally in the past when a relationship didn't work out, I was fine. Until now I never had an issue when it came to moving on. I guess it just doesn't feel natural. You are right that I only experienced 1 cycle. I could not imagine going back and forth multiple times and if I did, maybe some distain would enter the picture. Thanks again


What you are writing about in regards to your Ex sounds really healthy and sweet... so I would respectfully say "kudos" to you... .but different people on here have had far ranging and sometimes very different interactions with some BPD sufferers, that unforunately can leave deep and long healing scars, sometimes it can vary depending on how horrific the treatment they endured... .some may have only encountered unexplainable break-ups and rage prior to a period of no-contact and the BPDSO leaving... .others have endured  domestic violence on a regularly occuring schedule as well as demeaning verbal and emotional abuse for years at the hands of the BPDSOs... .so I think that it is only human and to be expected that some could feel hostile towards their Exs... .for some of the most extreme cases, it is the hostile attitude that enables a person to break free from a truly debilitating and dysfunctional relationship... .to be honest, hostile attitudes can fade with time away from the traumatic events, and the BPDSO, however, I can honestly say that at times it can be very difficult not to feel some anger towards an individual that was chasing you around the house with murder in their eyes either days or hours prior to a post that you might put up on these boards... .take care

Good post runningasfastasIcan (your name always makes me  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Smiling (click to insert in post) for a good while. Classic!)

Excerpt
This relationship didn't have time to burn out or get to the point where it didn't feel right anymore, instead it feels like this sweet wonderful woman has become possessed and our relationship died an unnatural   cause. I just called my companies EAP and I am going to discuss this with someone who could help me move on. I need to figure out the best way to get this behind me, but one thing is certain, distain or anger towards this woman is not going to be the answer.

Veryconcerned47, your relationship was going along sweetly before your ex suddenly changed and ended the relationship. However, in that short time you developed such feelings that when it ended the devastation was so great that you had to call your company's EAP to help you move on. Not the usual action for the end of a relationship but understandable given the type of dynamic that you were involved it and the natural devastation given that you appear to have been involved with a BPD.

You said disdain and anger towards your ex is not going to be the answer. Perhaps not, in your situation. However there are some people who were at the same point as you and lacked the disdain and anger at how they had been treated and in fact felt more sorry for their BPD than they did for themselves and the way they had been treated by the BPD. This allowed the BPD to be gratefully embraced fully back into their lives, when the BPD chose to return, to be treated 'abusively' again (yes, the way the BPD has acted is 'abusive' despite the sweetness that appeared to exist) and to be treated worse than the previous time. Sometimes this abusive dynamic has gone on for months and years until the person didn't know their left from their right. 

Think of how you feel NOW. Imagine how you would feel if the same thing that you have experienced happened to you 2 or 3,4,5,6 times? If you didn't have any disdain or anger against such treatment, you would be perpetually in a cycle of pain and dysfunction because you would be feeling sorry for the BPD, listening to her excuses of why she did what she did - which would portray her as the victim who you needed to take care of, you would  be remembering the good times and you would see her as 'sweet'. Until the next time you would be left devastated by her.

Some people went through hell and back with their BPD and the moment they invoked their disdain and anger, it allowed the cycle of abuse to stop.

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« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2010, 11:36:01 AM »

What you are writing about in regards to your Ex sounds really healthy and sweet... so I would respectfully say "kudos" to you... .but different people on here have had far ranging and sometimes very different interactions with some BPD sufferers, that unforunately can leave deep and long healing scars, sometimes it can vary depending on how horrific the treatment they endured... .some may have only encountered unexplainable break-ups and rage prior to a period of no-contact and the BPDSO leaving... .others have endured  domestic violence on a regularly occuring schedule as well as demeaning verbal and emotional abuse for years at the hands of the BPDSOs... .so I think that it is only human and to be expected that some could feel hostile towards their Exs... .for some of the most extreme cases, it is the hostile attitude that enables a person to break free from a truly debilitating and dysfunctional relationship... .to be honest, hostile attitudes can fade with time away from the traumatic events, and the BPDSO, however, I can honestly say that at times it can be very difficult not to feel some anger towards an individual that was chasing you around the house with murder in their eyes either days or hours prior to a post that you might put up on these boards... .take care

Good post... .Anger and hostility are legitimate feelings when you've been mistreated, exploited and dumped.

Here Here!

I for one can easily see its going to take a long time and some good steady counselling/therapy for me to get over the way I feel at this time because of being constantly battered in every way, shape and form, if I even am ever able to... .
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« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2010, 11:43:11 AM »

Thanks for your reply. I totally relate to your comment about injustice. I remember her brother once telling me that my sister is very special, she has made some bad choices and just love her and everything will be wonderful. I kept my part of the deal and then got tossed away like I was garbage. She could not care less for how she made me feel. So in the spirit of keeping the facts straight, I did not leave her, she dumped me, and this wasn't the first time I had what my friend who is a counselor called a 'broken winged woman' that I wanted to fix. Only difference is there were no extremes and the 2 other woman who had issues scared me off and did not leave me feeling this way.

There is a big sense of injustice for me, I tried so hard to be her friend and her lover, I bent over backwards and forgave so much but that was entirely the wrong approach, im mad at her and im mad at me. You sound healthy, probably you are not a codependent, just a guy who got messed up with a girl, saw she was BPD and left, many guys like that don't even make it to these boards.

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« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2010, 11:51:31 AM »

When I step back and look at the big picture, the good we shared still outweighed the bad. Over time I am sure that would have changed. I am just trying to be honest with this community and myself when I say that part of me still misses her bad and loves her, at the same time another part of me understands that since she is in denial and would not go for help (she is a medical professional, OR Nurse), that she will do nothing but hurt me and my emotional well being , so there can not be a future with her. On another note it seems that she has no intention of letting get some things (a laptop, cam corder, TV, plus money I loaned her to pay her taxes back). when I asked her she went into a rage.

Ahh sorry, didn't see the replies. OK if she left you and it was in the honeymoon phase and you're not overly hostile then I'm surprised, my empathy for her ran long dry, I've had periods (that last about as long as it takes me to have the thought and then go "naaaah) where I feel sorry for her but I'm still in hostile mode. If you're not then you're a better man than me!

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« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2010, 01:11:37 PM »

I am just trying to be honest with this community and myself when I say that part of me still misses her bad and loves her,

Veryconcerned47, there is nothing wrong in you loving her and feeling the way you do and stating it here. Most people will absolutely empathise completely with how you feel. We have all been there. That is part of the pain that we are/were feeling... .the loss of what we felt we had. Missing the person and feeling that we loved the person, they loved us... .and not initially quite understanding what happened? What went wrong? Where is the person I met? Hoping and praying that they will come back in the original form that we met them.

Because you met most of us at a different stage of the process, maybe you felt that you couldn't express how you felt because rather than meeting lots of people saying 'they love and miss their xBPD' you met a lot of people saying 'good riddance to bad rubbish!'  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Smiling (click to insert in post) In a way that can be intimidating... .so I understand.

Please don't feel bad or apologise for loving and missing you exBPD. Your feelings will be as legitimate and 'supported' as everyone else's  x



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« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2010, 01:20:12 PM »

Excerpt
Please don't feel bad or apologise for loving and missing you exBPD. Your feelings will be as legitimate and 'supported' as everyone else's 



 
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« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2010, 04:00:26 PM »

I am finally at a place of compassion, but it's taken me 13 years to get there.  Doesn't mean I'm not clear-eyed about exactly how toxic he is, and doesn't mean that I'm not blunt about saying so and protecting my son and myself from him.  But it does mean that I no longer get panicked and angry on those rare occasions when I have to deal with him.
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« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2010, 04:06:15 PM »

Are you sure she is truly a borderline? The way you described your relationship as “most of our time together was spent loving each other, trying to please each other, doing the little things that would bring a smile to each others faces and other positive experiences.” That does NOT sound like a person with BPD! A person with BPD has a cruel cycle pattern of destructive abuse.

Maybe your relationship just ended badly. A true borderline has a long pattern of “push you away and pull you back”…“love you one minute and rage the next minute”.  A person with BPD will keep you in a cycle of confusing abuse. You mentioned that your girlfriend “turned on you at the end”…well, maybe she was just over the relationship and wanted it over. Maybe she in NOT a borderline. You should not label someone with a mental disorder just because she was rude to you at the end of a relationship. You think people here are too judgmental? If you suffered the abuse of TRUE borderline, you might have a very different opinion.
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« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2010, 04:29:14 PM »

If you suffered the abuse of TRUE borderline, you might have a very different opinion.

Amen.
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« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2010, 04:40:14 PM »

There is much more to it than your post states. I didn't think that every time I posted and added a few points that I had to retell the entire story and pass a validation test.

There is an article on this site that a close long time friend of the family  sent to me who is a mental health professional (teaches psychology) and teacher. It is called HOW A BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER LOVE RELATIONSHIP EVOLVEs by Roger Melton MA. . If I take what I experienced and compare it to that article, it's almost like that article is telling my experience.  All the failed marriages, engagements and relationships where it was always the other persons fault. The Love phase, the fact that others betrayed her and were insensitive, feeling constantly adored immediately, the mirroring, me always being the center of attention, then the clinger phase where things started to change, the transformation, the way she started to exert control, the pains the aches, feeling like I am on a rescue mission, the black hole of emotional hunger, then the hater phase and the sudden rage and the ending with all the attacks on petty things I have done. I do not feel the need to justify why I am here to you. If the people that control this site thought based on my intro that it was not BPD, they would have told me. Instead they said my story is a common one. Plus there were some aspects of her past that I choose not to share for my own reasons. Even though it doesn't match your definition of BPD. So I have enough to contend with in dealing with my sudden lose and my very disappointed son. I don't need to spend any more time and energy passing your tests.

Finally, I never said anyone here was too judgmental. I shared my feelings because I still felt lots of compassion for this woman and because of all of the constructive non-judgemetal replies, I was able to understand that many people here had it worse than me.

Are you sure she is truly a borderline? The way you described your relationship as “most of our time together was spent loving each other, trying to please each other, doing the little things that would bring a smile to each others faces and other positive experiences.” That does NOT sound like a person with BPD! A person with BPD has a cruel cycle pattern of destructive abuse.

Maybe your relationship just ended badly. A true borderline has a long pattern of “push you away and pull you back”…“love you one minute and rage the next minute”.  A person with BPD will keep you in a cycle of confusing abuse. You mentioned that your girlfriend “turned on you at the end”…well, maybe she was just over the relationship and wanted it over. Maybe she in NOT a borderline. You should not label someone with a mental disorder just because she was rude to you at the end of a relationship. You think people here are too judgmental? If you suffered the abuse of TRUE borderline, you might have a very different opinion.

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« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2010, 04:42:56 PM »

If this site or forum is for people that were only seriously abused  or in long term relationships with someone that has BPD, let me know and I will stop posting and participating.

If you suffered the abuse of TRUE borderline, you might have a very different opinion.

Amen.

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« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2010, 04:46:47 PM »

If this site or forum is for people that were only seriously abused  or in long term relationships with someone that has BPD, let me know and I will stop posting and participating.

If you suffered the abuse of TRUE borderline, you might have a very different opinion.

Amen.


Naaah cmon. I think the title and the opener did hit a bit of a nerve not just because many of us took a real beating out there but also, by our natures (thats why the BPDs dated us at all) we are all very compassionate and deeply feeling people, it kinda insinuated that the bitterness sometimes expressed is unfounded and that maybe some are a bit heartless cos the BPDers are ill and the nons are not.

Kinda like walking into an army hospital and telling folk to stop feeling so badly on the opposing factor. Anyone who is hurting or been hurt or tried to have a rel. with a BPD is welcome here as I understand it.
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« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2010, 04:53:52 PM »

To Interestedparty, I really appreciated your reply earlier and common sense would state that we all have unique experiences and have had to deal with this at different degrees. Regarding your words about my feelings being as legitimate and supported as everyone else's, there may be some on this site who because of the duration of our relationship and the fact that I was simply dumped without being abused, they are trying to suggest that maybe this is not even BPD. On a site like this there is no problem sharing experiences and opinions, but to take a small subset of what someone wrote, that is not the same as what you yourself went through, and then challenge the persons reasons for being here, IMO crosses a bad boundary and could set a bad precedent. If you look at at the bottom of page 3 you will see what prompted me to write this. Thanks

I am just trying to be honest with this community and myself when I say that part of me still misses her bad and loves her,

Veryconcerned47, there is nothing wrong in you loving her and feeling the way you do and stating it here. Most people will absolutely empathise completely with how you feel. We have all been there. That is part of the pain that we are/were feeling... .the loss of what we felt we had. Missing the person and feeling that we loved the person, they loved us... .and not initially quite understanding what happened? What went wrong? Where is the person I met? Hoping and praying that they will come back in the original form that we met them.

Because you met most of us at a different stage of the process, maybe you felt that you couldn't express how you felt because rather than meeting lots of people saying 'they love and miss their xBPD' you met a lot of people saying 'good riddance to bad rubbish!'  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Smiling (click to insert in post) In a way that can be intimidating... .so I understand.

Please don't feel bad or apologise for loving and missing you exBPD. Your feelings will be as legitimate and 'supported' as everyone else's  x


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« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2010, 04:59:11 PM »

 In defence here I reckon Honeymoon or not, I don’t think it matters. You def don’t need to be in it for years to qualify being here. I found that first rage episode one of the most devastating relationship experiences I had ever had – never seen anything like it, nothing to compare or compute, so the best of days – a hot sunny day on our first holiday together, became the worst. Unfortunately I took it as something so unusual it could not possibly happen again, but now I know that was when she properly unclothed herself emotionally and I not only saw, but actually experienced how it felt to be her under that gloss exterior. Man, I felt so bad I wanted to run and jump off a roof.

From that point on, fear was present, but I never fully understood why, and I thought this indicated some deficiency in me, something to be mastered. Instead, for me the long term consequences of sticking around were mental and emotional resources depleted, friends falling away, finances dwindling, kids and job not getting a fair deal - there is a big price to pay for hanging in there for all of us.
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« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2010, 05:09:37 PM »

Thanks so much for your posting. You are exactly right. That first major episode when decided to dump me when I called to discuss the food shopping list blew me away. At first I thought there was something else wrong and it would pass, but in fact she went from the love of my life (we had a loving evening before) to someone who could not stand the site of me overnight, still has my head spinning. I can't imagine how bad it would have been to go back and forth like this over and over. I understand why you use the word depleted.

In defence here I reckon Honeymoon or not, I don’t think it matters. You def don’t need to be in it for years to qualify being here. I found that first rage episode one of the most devastating relationship experiences I had ever had – never seen anything like it, nothing to compare or compute, so the best of days – a hot sunny day on our first holiday together, became the worst. Unfortunately I took it as something so unusual it could not possibly happen again, but now I know that was when she properly unclothed herself emotionally and I not only saw, but actually experienced how it felt to be her under that gloss exterior. Man, I felt so bad I wanted to run and jump off a roof.

From that point on, fear was present, but I never fully understood why, and I thought this indicated some deficiency in me, something to be mastered. Instead, for me the long term consequences of sticking around were mental and emotional resources depleted, friends falling away, finances dwindling, kids and job not getting a fair deal - there is a big price to pay for hanging in there for all of us.

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« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2010, 05:13:05 PM »

Maybe we all need to take a deep breath and chill for a bit  Being cool (click to insert in post)

No one's judging anyone, AFAICT.  We've all been through what we've been through, and we're talking about.  All our reactions are perfectly OK, no matter what they are.

x

GCD145

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« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2010, 06:09:37 PM »

Just to weigh in with my own experiences... .the first rage episode for me (14 years ago now) was also one of the worst. It was so frightening, I felt so hopeless and alone. Then he was back, kind, loving, apologetic, etc. etc. and the cycle continued for over a decade. Finally I realized what was wrong, my SO was diagnosed, we went to T (together and individually).

But I also agree with what vacuumboots said (I think it was vacuumboots) that the disease and its resulting abuse has killed all the loving feelings I once had for my dBPDstbx. I am working on separating and ultimately divorce. We still live together now and it is very, very difficult.

I find myself somewhat jealously reading the posts of people whose SOs left them... .I have been asking my dBPDstbx to leave for over a year now and he still refuses to move out. As I have already emotionally disengaged from him I would love it if he left me! I am also often jealous of the younger people (I am 40) who are out of their BPD relationships before marriage and children, or after a few months instead of many years.

HOWEVER: that's not to say that their pain isn't as bad or that their feelings are less valid than mine. We all belong here if we had a relationship with a BPD, but just acknowledge that some of us have been more damaged than others by those relationships.

But anger and hostility? Yes, I feel that a lot. Then again, I have given up nearly a decade and a half of my life (and most of my youth) to this person who has given me back mostly abuse and pain. So, yeah, I think it's legitimate to feel that way.

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« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2010, 07:42:33 PM »

For a decade and a half, my DH was abused physically, emotionally, intellectually, financially, and judicially by his BPD now-ex-wife. She did everything from systematically depriving him of sleep, to ignoring him after he was hit by a car, to accusing his crippled father of raping her, to alleging that he had molested his toddler daughter when all he did was toilet train her. He honestly thought she would kill him and was just hanging in there to protect his daughter.

If he wasn't still angry from time to time, it just plain wouldn't be healthy. In fact, it took him two full years to even BEGIN to feel the anger - before that, he was deeply in shock. It doesn't consume him, but it's not healthy for him to suppress his feelings any more, and if anger is one of them, then that's something that needs to come out.
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« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2010, 08:32:58 PM »

I remember reading about the effect of horrific images - they shock, transfix and anaesthetise. So it is with our beloved BP's. That first real contact is seismic. Then we get obsessive and stuck until the waves subside sufficiently for us to move on. It is a truly mortifying and horrific experience. How on earth, in fair world, are we to be prepared for such an event. Just reminded of an old quote 'evil prevails when good men do nothing'. In BP land I would simply say 'evil prevails'. It appears there is no salvation for our lost loved ones, and neither do they want saving. They truly belong to the dark side. Best  you can do for you and those you love is run - sooner the better, so well done if you got out after one cycle. You are probably better adjusted than those who stayed for the ride - IMHO - all disclaimers apply . . . shoot me  ;p
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« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2010, 09:11:20 PM »

Wow, the more I am learning about this the luckier I am feeling that she dumped me. This evening I received a call from the friend of my families who is a counselor and teacher. When we spoke the other day she showed me the Roger Melton article about BPD and relationships and that is how I found this site. At that point I only understood BPD in terms of falling in love, and winding up getting dumped. And in that context I had no clue about what many of you have gone through. I am the OP of this thread, I hope the title of the thread did not appear insensitive to what many of you have been through.

Tonight when we spoke, she had a conversation with an associate who was knowledgeable about BPD. His message to me was, I am lucky that I am out of this relationship and do not do anything foolish like ever even considering getting back with her. I understand that now. Plus, I doubt I will have that option. We still have some things at each others homes that I hope to get back. In my other posts I mentioned I loaned her money to pay her taxes. I guess I made a very big mistake trusting her. To the person who posted this thread, I think I will pass on the ride either way... .

I remember reading about the effect of horrific images - they shock, transfix and anaesthetise. So it is with our beloved BP's. That first real contact is seismic. Then we get obsessive and stuck until the waves subside sufficiently for us to move on. It is a truly mortifying and horrific experience. How on earth, in fair world, are we to be prepared for such an event. Just reminded of an old quote 'evil prevails when good men do nothing'. In BP land I would simply say 'evil prevails'. It appears there is no salvation for our lost loved ones, and neither do they want saving. They truly belong to the dark side. Best  you can do for you and those you love is run - sooner the better, so well done if you got out after one cycle. You are probably better adjusted than those who stayed for the ride - IMHO - all disclaimers apply . . . shoot me  ;p

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« Reply #60 on: April 01, 2010, 11:41:05 PM »

Staff only

Our experiences and attitudes may differ, but we all have in common the need to heal. Just a quick reminder of our guidelines:

Advising and Supporting Others: Members shall offer only compassionate, well founded, fact based advice. While it is anticipated that most members have little or no formal training in therapy, members are expected to read and have some reasonable foundation before giving advice to others. Collectively the membership is here to learn and grow as a group and it is important that we not recycle or reinforce incorrect or unhealthy ideas.

Members should offer advice as peer opinions targeted directly to the host of the thread. Members shall be patient and understanding of other members that are in different stages of the learning or healing process.
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« Reply #61 on: April 02, 2010, 07:09:53 AM »

Hi Concerned47

I really appreciated your reply earlier and common sense would state that we all have unique experiences and have had to deal with this at different degrees.

Absolutely!

Excerpt
Regarding your words about my feelings being as legitimate and supported as everyone else's, there may be some on this site who because of the duration of our relationship and the fact that I was simply dumped without being abused, they are trying to suggest that maybe this is not even BPD.

The truth is, a good percentage of the people on this forum do not know for certain that their ex's were BPD. They only 'suspect' based upon the characteristics they witnessed and the experience that they encountered. Unless one is medically qualified, no-one can make that diagnosis.

However, this site is for anyone who has had an encounter with someone who has been or is suspected of having BPD.

Therefore, like I said prior you have every right to be here and supported just as much as anyone else. The length of one's encounter is irrelevant. Only you knew your full experience and it seems to fit in with what you have researched on BPD. The Roger Melton Article is a good one by the way! It was really validating for me.

Sometimes in a forum people will offer a different perspective for us to 'consider', it is not meant to demean or invalidate your experiences. So please don't take it personally!

I am very happy to see you are still posting!  Smiling (click to insert in post) You created a very 'vibrant', healthy debate that got people talking about their experiences and raised awareness. That is all part of what a forum is all about.


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« Reply #62 on: April 02, 2010, 08:07:56 AM »

Excerpt
If this site or forum is for people that were only seriously abused  or in long term relationships with someone that has BPD, let me know and I will stop posting and participating.



Excerpt
Sometimes in a forum people will offer a different perspective for us to 'consider', it is not meant to demean or invalidate your experiences. So please don't take it personally!

I am very happy to see you are still posting!   You created a very 'vibrant', healthy debate that got people talking about their experiences and raised awareness. That is all part of what a forum is all about.

veryconcerned: I agree with IP don't take it personally... .I was even a little offended at first at the fact you were asking how in the world we could all be so angry all the time...   But in talking to you I can see you were still in the very early stages of your relationship.  I can tell you with absolutely certainty if my BPDSO had left me in the early stages I too, would have been destroyed!  Just remember that is the nature of the disease... .VERY INTENSE ! Good and Bad... . 

Excerpt
Wow, the more I am learning about this the luckier I am feeling that she dumped me

.

In reality ... YES you are.  She left you before you could develop any resentment and anger... .And with 3 failed marriages and a broken engagement... .she may be aware there is a problem.  She may have the "flight" feeling.  Mine had it too, but he never left... .and now the damage has been done.  Even after everything he has done to me... I still Love him.  It's perfectly normal for you to miss her and long for all the hopes and dreams she "sold" you.
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« Reply #63 on: April 02, 2010, 08:52:19 AM »

Quote from: Lost in Wonderland
 

It's perfectly normal for you to miss her and long for all the hopes and dreams she "sold" you.

That is exactly it... .the love, hopes and dreams... .that was "sold" to us... .

Dealing with the reality of what you really have which can be 'nothing', even if you are

STILL in a relationship with them, can be very, very difficult to come to terms with. I know it

was for me.

You feel like you were 'duped' by a con artist, in some cases.



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« Reply #64 on: April 02, 2010, 10:29:03 AM »

Thanks lost. I am sorry if I offended anyone. It was not my intent. I have lots of compassion in my heart. It has amazing how this affected me. I have had relationships fail before. I just moved on and put them behind me. I am sure you can relate to have different this is. She really got into my head and made me feel like I couldn't have scripted something that wonderful. I know there were some signs, especially the way she would speak about her ex's and never utter their names. She had a major victim attitude. Being on this forum is helping me make sense in terms of what happened. I was just thinking about all the times she cried during some of out tenderest moments in bed. I assumed they were tears of joy. I wonder if they were because she knew where all of this was heading. I would be lying if I said I did not miss her. She was like an angel until the very end. Thanks and have a great day

Excerpt
If this site or forum is for people that were only seriously abused  or in long term relationships with someone that has BPD, let me know and I will stop posting and participating.



Excerpt
Sometimes in a forum people will offer a different perspective for us to 'consider', it is not meant to demean or invalidate your experiences. So please don't take it personally!

I am very happy to see you are still posting!   You created a very 'vibrant', healthy debate that got people talking about their experiences and raised awareness. That is all part of what a forum is all about.

veryconcerned: I agree with IP don't take it personally... .I was even a little offended at first at the fact you were asking how in the world we could all be so angry all the time...   But in talking to you I can see you were still in the very early stages of your relationship.  I can tell you with absolutely certainty if my BPDSO had left me in the early stages I too, would have been destroyed!  Just remember that is the nature of the disease... .VERY INTENSE ! Good and Bad... . 

Excerpt
Wow, the more I am learning about this the luckier I am feeling that she dumped me

.

In reality ... YES you are.  She left you before you could develop any resentment and anger... .And with 3 failed marriages and a broken engagement... .she may be aware there is a problem.  She may have the "flight" feeling.  Mine had it too, but he never left... .and now the damage has been done.  Even after everything he has done to me... I still Love him.  It's perfectly normal for you to miss her and long for all the hopes and dreams she "sold" you.

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« Reply #65 on: April 02, 2010, 10:53:46 AM »

Excerpt
I was just thinking about all the times she cried during some of out tenderest moments in bed. I assumed they were tears of joy. I wonder if they were because she knew where all of this was heading

Sadly, She probably did  :'( x.  Imagine having to live life knowing you'll never really be happy.
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« Reply #66 on: April 02, 2010, 11:15:08 AM »

Excerpt
Dealing with the reality of what you really have which can be 'nothing', even if you are

STILL in a relationship with them, can be very, very difficult to come to terms with. I know it

was for me.

I still have a hard time believing we had "nothing'... .I still can't believe all the fun and love we shared wasn't really real.   He's been trying to "make up" for what he has done... .

He can't ever possibly "make up" ... .and It takes a lot of work not to believe in the crap he's trying to feed me again. 
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« Reply #67 on: April 02, 2010, 12:23:19 PM »

That's the problem LIW, it does take alot of 'effort' not to be hoodwinked AGAIN.

It all sounds so incredibly sincere. Mind you they are well practiced at begging and pleading. Well practiced... .

The thing is despite some people going through a bad 'HISTORY' over and over and over again with these people, they still 'hope'. They are so desperate for 'the dream', despite it being obvious that this is never going to ever be the person to provide it. PwBPD haven't got the emotional capacity. They talk the talk but they can never walk the walk. That is where the 'disconnect' reveals itself.

This is when the emphasis & responsibility definitely moves completely away from the BPD and onto the person themselves for not facing up to reality. That in itself is an issue that lies directly with the person and not the BPD at all.

When you have REALLY gotten over a BPD in your life, you can see clearly through their shallow, phoney words and just how truly empty they are... .

Pure mimicry!

If you have ever heard the expression, 'He just told you what you wanted to hear'... .

pwBPD are the Kings and Queens of this saying. They own that saying. They mirror and mimic to get what they 'need' out of a situation.They are alert like dogs with their ears pricked. They look for 'reactions' in everything. If they get a good response to their words they've got the green light to lay it on THICK. You know everything with them has to be extreme.





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« Reply #68 on: April 02, 2010, 12:41:00 PM »

It doesn't sound like your relationship included the kind of lying, insults, and purposeful misdirection that mine did.

Lucky!

I'm angry because someone chose to hurt me rather than seek help. That makes me angry.

I loved him but he made me furious.
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« Reply #69 on: April 02, 2010, 12:48:02 PM »

Im sorry if this goes off a little, but I wanted to for IP's help... .You seem like you have been there and done this... .How did you?  Today is day 8 and I feel like I am about to have a nervous breakdown  :'(.

Excerpt
When you have REALLY gotten over a BPD in your life, you can see clearly through their shallow, phoney words and just how truly empty they are... .

I know I am not over him... .I am guitly as charged as still "hoping" ... .Hoping for Therapy, Hoping this break will make him realize what he has, hoping he can beat this... .I am so willing to help him if he would just help himself.  :'(

Deep down I know he won't change... .I see it hear ... .I see years and years of what I have been through... .  I am emabarrassed to say I'm not as angry as I should be... and that I do still (at least think) I love him... .He's has at times been a MONSTER then at times he's an Angel... .How much do we have to take to realize things WON'T change? How long does the hope last?  I want to let go... .I want to forget... I want to move on... .I just don't know how.

The busted lips healed, the bruises are gone... .and I ... once again today find myself ... .missing him.   ? :'(  I wish I could stay hostile... .I wish I could stay anger... .Why can't I?
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« Reply #70 on: April 02, 2010, 01:15:54 PM »

Thanks for your reply. I have been thinking about the tears. Not that it makes a difference, but I just keep asking myself if she was crying because she knew everything we created was soon to come crashing down. They say BPD's have no empathy. Her recent actions seem to validate this. I even wondered if the tears were because she saw all of that love in my eyes and for a moment actually felt some empathy. 

Excerpt
I was just thinking about all the times she cried during some of out tenderest moments in bed. I assumed they were tears of joy. I wonder if they were because she knew where all of this was heading

Sadly, She probably did  :'( x.  Imagine having to live life knowing you'll never really be happy.

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« Reply #71 on: April 02, 2010, 01:19:04 PM »

While it seems you and I have had very different experiences in our relationships. We both know that there would be nothing but more disappointment, heartache and sadness if we continued down the road. You and I can do better, and we also deserve better. Times like this make me wonder what it would be like to meet a woman that actually shared the same experience I did. That would be a very profound thing to have in common.

Excerpt
Dealing with the reality of what you really have which can be 'nothing', even if you are

STILL in a relationship with them, can be very, very difficult to come to terms with. I know it

was for me.

I still have a hard time believing we had "nothing'... .I still can't believe all the fun and love we shared wasn't really real.   He's been trying to "make up" for what he has done... .

He can't ever possibly "make up" ... .and It takes a lot of work not to believe in the crap he's trying to feed me again. 

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« Reply #72 on: April 02, 2010, 01:20:48 PM »

What you wrote reminds me of the quote 'if I do not love myself, how can I expect others to love me. '

That's the problem LIW, it does take alot of 'effort' not to be hoodwinked AGAIN.

It all sounds so incredibly sincere. Mind you they are well practiced at begging and pleading. Well practiced... .

The thing is despite some people going through a bad 'HISTORY' over and over and over again with these people, they still 'hope'. They are so desperate for 'the dream', despite it being obvious that this is never going to ever be the person to provide it. PwBPD haven't got the emotional capacity. They talk the talk but they can never walk the walk. That is where the 'disconnect' reveals itself.

This is when the emphasis & responsibility definitely moves completely away from the BPD and onto the person themselves for not facing up to reality. That in itself is an issue that lies directly with the person and not the BPD at all.

When you have REALLY gotten over a BPD in your life, you can see clearly through their shallow, phoney words and just how truly empty they are... .

Pure mimicry!

If you have ever heard the expression, 'He just told you what you wanted to hear'... .

pwBPD are the Kings and Queens of this saying. They own that saying. They mirror and mimic to get what they 'need' out of a situation.They are alert like dogs with their ears pricked. They look for 'reactions' in everything. If they get a good response to their words they've got the green light to lay it on THICK. You know everything with them has to be extreme.



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« Reply #73 on: April 02, 2010, 01:55:37 PM »

Hi veryconcerned, i am sorry that you were feeling out of place here...

I think everyone who comes to this site is more than welcome, and can count on a lot of respect, understanding, warm and loving comments,advice, first time i came here, it felt like a very warm shower after a very very cold walk... .

Like most said you were probably lucky to get out on time... .without hostility and anger and feelings of hate...

But don't you feel anger by proxy, what she also did to your son?

Anger was for me the way out, was the life saver for my children, if it wasn't for anger we probably would have been seriously ill or dead by now.

Anger keeps you moving, get you moving, and protects you against feelings of regret,shame,fear,all that you don't need when you are trying to get control of the sitiuation when it is really really bad...

This is the only place where i could rage,vent, without being judged and also was completely understood.

Anger gets the adrenaline level up what you need sometimes to not get blown away by the facts and reality.

Anger is also a part of the grieving, which we probably all know what they are.

I think when reality hits you real you will feel anger... .and you need to let it out sometimes, because suppression will turn into depression... and this is the place where you can do that without someone is looking at you and is saying wht ?

Or even worse, the anger builds up and gets out at the most inconveniant time.

We also share feelings of pain,hurt,sadness,regrets,guilt and so on...

I must say some people over here can rant,vent and write their anger down in a most fantastic way,full of humor and it helps to see the things in perspective.

Not only that but there are many out here who gained wisdom and peace and can gently point out your own issues,which we all have because if you don't, you will not be involved with a BPD.

No one offends any one here with that intention and we all know that that is not what you are doing.

However, staying in a state of anger will do you no good. I think the time we are having no feelings at all for our exBPD,is the time we are ready.

Even anger will attach us still to our ex,and will do us more harm  in the end than it will do to them.

No need perse for forgiving or complete empathy,jus a lack of all feelings is a state of peace,and considering the intention of all of us to also take a good look at our own part and willing to acknowledge them will get us all in that peacefull state of mind x
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« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2010, 03:13:11 PM »

Hi Manon, Thanks for your reply. She was actually very nice to my son. Plus our boys were close in age and became very close. He doesn't understand how this could have happened. He was so happy when the 4 of us were together. Last week my ex-BPD-gf kept calling and emailing my son. This week it has calmed down.

I would like to get the belongings (TV, camcorder, electric razor, bluray player) back I have at her house. I wonder what the best way would be to approach her. I am considering:

1) A business type letter, serious to the point (risk, that might piss her off)

2) An honest letter, telling her I hope she is ok and I remember all the special moments we shared (risk, that might piss her off)

3) A phone call or voice message (risk, that might piss her off)

I also loaned her money and I never imagined she would not pay me back. After all she was in a bind and I helped her. I would have taken $50 a month. So far I received 0.

Have a great day





Hi veryconcerned, i am sorry that you were feeling out of place here...

I think everyone who comes to this site is more than welcome, and can count on a lot of respect, understanding, warm and loving comments,advice, first time i came here, it felt like a very warm shower after a very very cold walk... .

Like most said you were probably lucky to get out on time... .without hostility and anger and feelings of hate...

But don't you feel anger by proxy, what she also did to your son?

No need perse for forgiving or complete empathy,jus a lack of all feelings is a state of peace,and considering the intention of all of us to also take a good look at our own part and willing to acknowledge them will get us all in that peacefull state of mind x

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« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2010, 03:40:31 PM »

concerned: you are going to piss her off either way... ."nature of the beast"... just be prepared for backlash.   It may also work the opposite for you... .  exp.  my BPDso and I were seeing eachother for about 3 months when he told me that he just couldn't handle it anymore ... .(i was in the middle of a nasty divorce with 2 kids) ... .He was also separating from his ex and they also have a son together... he was 18 months old at the time... .so we stopped seeing eachother to just deal with life.  3 days later I went by his house in the morning and her car was there... .so I completely stopped talking to him... .But I had some things of his and he had some things of mine... so we started with light text messages until we finally agreed to meet for dinner... .

Well that night was the start of our life... .- ... .that was close to 4 years ago now...

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« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2010, 06:47:24 PM »

How about just politely requesting by email or letter (depending on her e-savvy) that she leave the stuff at a specific time and place of mutual convenience? I do not recommend the phone or direct personal contact. This has worked for me before.  EX: Hi.  I hope you are doing well.  I'd like my African robe and calculator back, if I could, please.  Would you consider leaving it on the back porch between 1P and 4P on Wednesday? There is no need for you to meet with me personally on this.  In fact, I prefer if we do not meet directly then.

If you prefer a different time and place, please let me know.  If I do not hear from you, I will simply come by there at 1PM Wednesday, unless you object.  I would prefer to hear your convenience on this, however.  If you have other issues of your own, can we set a different time to deal with those, please?  Please let me know if there is something of yours that I need to drop off when I come by, or if you want to deal with something else later.  Thanks.

She will either get pissed (which looks like it might happen no matter what you do) or cooperate.  She might want to hang on to it as some weird revenge (personal photos are a favorite for that)  or as a hook to draw you back in.  If she won't co-operate, there is not much you can do.  I think it is best just to let the stuff go as the price of getting rid of the BPD in your life.  It's only stuff, after all.  Fighting over stuff is a good way to get sucked back into things or provoke an incident that she may want for other reasons.
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« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2010, 11:56:30 PM »

Hello,

I just sent her an email about an hour ago. I was listening to a song that the 2 of us enjoyed very much. I went for option number 2. After I sent it I started thinking how true the black and white metaphor is in describing this condition. When she thought I was perfect, I could do no wrong. When she figured out I was a human which happened around the time the honeymoon period must have ended, she would have nothing to do with me. In her crazy world, I was the guy she idolized and pledged her eternal love and heart and body to. Now I doubt she will even return my email. In any relationship, even when one person makes a mistake, the other person does not judge them by that mistake only. That would be insane. They are able to look at the bigger picture. So in my case it doesn't matter that 97% of the time we interacted with were wonderful to her. She hits one thing and that consumes her and she is done. That is why I liked the analogy about someone who gets rid of their  lawnmower every time the spark plug goes bad.

Now it also occurred to me that if I knew what I was dealing with, I could have been careful not to do anything that would even have remotely set her off. That would have maybe given us another month or 2, but that is it. So many people outside this site keep warning me not to go back to her. I am not planning on it. But again, its very unlikely I would have the option. She has erased everything good we ever had and all that's left is something dark and ugly.

So in my note to her tonight I told her that regardless of how things ended what we shared was wonderful and nothing anyone can say or do can ever change that. I also wished her the best. I have no clue how my words will effect her. But at this point I wrote them as part of the process of moving on. last point, my buddy who I was with tonight when I sent the message said he thought I sent it, not only to get my things back, but because I was hoping for a miracle. Meaning the ex-BPD-gf reads something from the dumped ex and it strikes a note and the next thing she snaps out of it and is in his arms again. I explained to him that that thought never crossed my mind. For that she would have to have empathy, forgiveness and the ability to look at the larger picture. All things that are sadly lacking in someone with BPD.

Have a nice evening.


I would like to get the belongings (TV, camcorder, electric razor, bluray player) back I have at her house. I wonder what the best way would be to approach her. I am considering:

1) A business type letter, serious to the point (risk, that might piss her off)

2) An honest letter, telling her I hope she is ok and I remember all the special moments we shared (risk, that might piss her off)

3) A phone call or voice message (risk, that might piss her off)

I also loaned her money and I never imagined she would not pay me back. After all she was in a bind and I helped her. I would have taken $50 a month. So far I received 0.

Have a great day





Hi veryconcerned, i am sorry that you were feeling out of place here...

I think everyone who comes to this site is more than welcome, and can count on a lot of respect, understanding, warm and loving comments,advice, first time i came here, it felt like a very warm shower after a very very cold walk... .

Like most said you were probably lucky to get out on time... .without hostility and anger and feelings of hate...

But don't you feel anger by proxy, what she also did to your son?

No need perse for forgiving or complete empathy,jus a lack of all feelings is a state of peace,and considering the intention of all of us to also take a good look at our own part and willing to acknowledge them will get us all in that peacefull state of mind x


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« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2010, 01:37:25 PM »

All too true.  Post-break-up letters seem to have another quality to me, too.  When we have been close to someone for a long time, we naturally want to share significant moments with them.  And particularly in life catastrophes, there is a conditioned instinct to turn to that person.  Break-up with a potential life partner is a life catastrophe, so we tend to turn back to that person at that moment - even though that person no longer exists for us in the way that they did.  I think it just takes the deconditioning of time to make this pass.  It is an ironic feature of the mourning process when the other is still alive in some way.
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« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2010, 02:13:39 PM »

Joe, you raise an interesting point in your reply. Does the ex-BPD mourn at all? Do they feel any of the sorrow or sadness when a beautiful dream that was moving forward dies a sudden death? I am guessing the answer is no, because of the extreme shift that occurs. It was like going from I LOVE YOU FOREVER AND WILL BE GROWING OLD WITH YOU to I HATE YOU AND NEVER WANT TO SEE YOU OR TALK TO YOU AGAIN. I know sometimes they re engage. That is not happening in my case. The black and white world seems better suited for animals than humans.

All too true.  Post-break-up letters seem to have another quality to me, too.  When we have been close to someone for a long time, we naturally want to share significant moments with them.  And particularly in life catastrophes, there is a conditioned instinct to turn to that person.  Break-up with a potential life partner is a life catastrophe, so we tend to turn back to that person at that moment - even though that person no longer exists for us in the way that they did.  I think it just takes the deconditioning of time to make this pass.  It is an ironic feature of the mourning process when the other is still alive in some way.

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« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2010, 04:39:06 PM »



Hi Veryconcerned47


Your experience sounds rather similar to that that I encountered, so do not feel your expressions and feelings are out of place here. I do feel for you, it is a difficult and confusing experience to reconcile to say the least, being here will offer you much to help with that.

I like yourself really didn't have any great degree of anger or hostility toward my exgf, my relationship moved along pretty smoothly until one fine day it all went to hell in a handcart. I can understand those that do express anger, many here endured intolerable treatment by their partner or family member, circumstances vary enormously.

This a great community to find support for healing, learning and understanding. I hope you will continue to post.



Sandyb
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« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2010, 10:20:27 PM »

Hey Sandy, Thanks, as I put in an earlier post that each day that goes by and the more time I read about this and spend on this site, I feel better and closer to having this behind me. It has been very hard to reconcile, but I am starting to reframe this experience in terms of it showing me what joy was possible, but of course with an emotionally healthy woman. She didn't do enough for me to feel anger or hostility, but unlike her I am able to feel tremendous empathy and compassion.  Undoubtedly there is a woman out there who I will one day share the same tender love and joy with, but will be healthy enough emotionally to accept me as an imperfect man, when we pledge her hearts are safe in each others hands, it will not just be me who means it. I will still take that risk again, otherwise I would have to give up on my dreams. Only difference, I will be smarter. I wish you the same also and hope you find the strength to never give up on your dreams.


Hi Veryconcerned47

Your experience sounds rather similar to that that I encountered, so do not feel your expressions and feelings are out of place here. I do feel for you, it is a difficult and confusing experience to reconcile to say the least, being here will offer you much to help with that.

I like yourself really didn't have any great degree of anger or hostility toward my exgf, my relationship moved along pretty smoothly until one fine day it all went to hell in a handcart. I can understand those that do express anger, many here endured intolerable treatment by their partner or family member, circumstances vary enormously.

This a great community to find support for healing, learning and understanding. I hope you will continue to post.

Sandyb

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« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2010, 11:48:37 AM »

Do BPD's mourn?  That is a good question, but it might be subsumed by the deeper question, ":)o BPD's love in the manner that most people do?"  Or more personally for you, ":)id love mean the same thing to her that it means to me?"  Others have pointed out here (and I think it is said on one of the recommended readings) that the BPD will never (and did never) see the relationship in the way that you did.  This is one of the many ways that hoping for a big change of some sort to reconcile the past just won't be productive.

The BPD simply has diminished capacity for empathy.  As I read the stories of people on this board, this feature just leaps out at me - even if that feature is not a prominent part of the DSM criteria.  This is not to say that we all do not hurt others sometimes - and particularly when love is involved.  The problem is that the BPD has no remorse about the hurting, and lacks or does not hear that little bell that goes off in most people's heads before engaging in outrageous behavior toward an intimate.

So what is BPD grief?  I suspect that it is more than anything else frustration and anger about the loss of what was hoped to be a pleasurable and/or advantageous love object.  This seems to explain the tendency toward disproportionate retaliation after the relationship's collapse, regardless of where the true fault lies.  It's not that, "I miss you," but rather, "I miss the things that you provided to me in the past and I am mad about your not providing them any longer because I was entitled to them regardless of what I did."



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« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2010, 11:50:43 AM »

I guess the real theme of what's written below is that the question, ":)oes she mourn my loss?" might really be, ":)id she love enough to miss me?" 
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« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2010, 12:08:31 PM »

"I miss the things that you provided to me in the past and I am mad about your not providing them any longer because I was entitled to them regardless of what I did...

My thoughts too, which very much is like the so called narcisstic supplies... .i think these disorders overlap eachother very much
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« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2010, 04:03:36 PM »

Do BPD's mourn?  That is a good question, but it might be subsumed by the deeper question, ":)o BPD's love in the manner that most people do?"  

The BPD simply has diminished capacity for empathy.

The problem is that the BPD has no remorse about the hurting, and lacks or does not hear that little bell that goes off in most people's heads before engaging in outrageous behavior toward an intimate.

So what is BPD grief?  I suspect that it is more than anything else frustration and anger about the loss of what was hoped to be a pleasurable and/or advantageous love object.  This seems to explain the tendency toward disproportionate retaliation after the relationship's collapse, regardless of where the true fault lies.  It's not that, "I miss you," but rather, "I miss the things that you provided to me in the past and I am mad about your not providing them any longer because I was entitled to them regardless of what I did."

I question whether BPD love at all. How can they? They have no concept of 'real' feeling for another. It is a toxic/enmeshed/complex way of relating that is ultimately about them and can NEVER be considered to be love... .IMHO... .nomatter the intensity of the words, THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK volumes! That incongruency that reveals itself and tells you who the person actually is but nons find it naturally hard to ACCEPT, despite the evidence before them.

PwBPD are not whole people, they are damaged individuals and despite their initial appearances their brokeness WILL reveal itself to you in a surprising and damaging way.

In my own relationship, the retaliation & ugliness was definitely also about, 'I know I have messed things up again and I know you are the type of person who will never have me back. In order for my 'ego' to cope with that fact, I have to hate you (split you/defence mechanism). I need to find an excuse to hate you even if I have to create chaos and ugliness to find that excuse. Once I can hate you and tell myself (and others) that you're a bad woman that did this to ME, then I can move on. After all, why would I want to be with someone like you? I don't need to look back at a rotten person like you. IT IS ME THAT DOESN'T WANT YOU! Now I have established that you are the bad one, that means it wasn't my fault and therefore there is nothing wrong with me'.

'Now I can move on. I can start afresh.'

With pwBPD they have too many primitive reactions/mechanisms going on to ever come close feeling or giving 'LOVE', or indeed receiving it. I think that they just 'mimic' love and what they've seen but they can't 'feel' it. Love encompasses empathy. The intensity we mistake for their feeling of love is the intensity of their 'neediness' and that is not about 'loving' us.

I agree... .I think BPD 'grief' is missing the loss of some advantage/benefit they got from their involvement.







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« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2010, 04:24:04 PM »

Hi Interested, You really raise some thought provoking points. In the past, when a relationship did not last, I never really faced serious ego issues. It was not about whose fault it was. It simply didn't work period. I recall how my ex-pbd-gf used to always talk about why every failed relationship was not her fault. SHe always had a reason it failed that had to do with her being a victim. He was violent, he cheated, he neglected me, he was a liar, he had mental issues, etc One time I asked her if it was simply because they were not compatible and she looked at me like I had 2 heads. Part of moving on in a healthy manner is to forgive and make peace. I once read a relationship book that said the way we end our last relationship impacts our next relationship. I didn't think much about that until now. SO maybe I am kidding myself, but deep down I had hoped that this beautiful woman that touched my heart and gave me so much pleasure, will one day be able to say 'farewell, we came together for a short period and shared the most beautiful bliss and passion as a man and a woman'.  Not sure if I mentioned this but she like to share her views on life and used to say that even though all the men on in her past were monsters, there must have been a reason that they were in each others lives. Strange.

SO you are right, they think they know love, but do not know empathy and demand perfection, They mimic love the way a parrot mimics speech, just because a parrot says good morning, does not mean the bird wants you to have a nice morning, and finally I can't begin to understand how this woman would be able to grieve anything.

I question whether BPD love at all. How can they? They have no concept of 'real' feeling for another. It is a toxic/enmeshed/complex way of relating that is ultimately about them and can NEVER be considered to be love... .IMHO... .nomatter the intensity of the words, THEIR ACTIONS SPEAK volumes! That incongruency that reveals itself and tells you who the person actually is but nons find it naturally hard to ACCEPT, despite the evidence before them.

PwBPD are not whole people, they are damaged individuals and despite their initial appearances their brokeness WILL reveal itself to you in a surprising and damaging way.

In my own relationship, the retaliation & ugliness was definitely also about, 'I know I have messed things up again and I know you are the type of person who will never have me back. In order for my 'ego' to cope with that fact, I have to hate you (split you/defence mechanism). I need to find an excuse to hate you even if I have to create chaos and ugliness to find that excuse. Once I can hate you and tell myself (and others) that you're a bad woman that did this to ME, then I can move on. After all, why would I want to be with someone like you? I don't need to look back at a rotten person like you. IT IS ME THAT DOESN'T WANT YOU! Now I have established that you are the bad one, that means it wasn't my fault and therefore there is nothing wrong with me'.

'Now I can move on. I can start afresh.'

With pwBPD they have too many primitive reactions/mechanisms going on to ever come close feeling or giving 'LOVE', or indeed receiving it. I think that they just 'mimic' love and what they've seen but they can't 'feel' it. Love encompasses empathy. The intensity we mistake for their feeling of love is the intensity of their 'neediness' and that is not about 'loving' us.

I agree... .I think BPD 'grief' is missing the loss of some advantage/benefit they got from their involvement.





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« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2010, 12:06:17 AM »

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