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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: A Note about Scapegoating  (Read 1128 times)
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« on: June 07, 2010, 02:12:38 AM »

Hello All,

I wrote this on another thread- but hope you don't mind if I post it again. I wanted to write a little bit about scapegoating, as I suffered *incredible toxic shame* by being blamed for the disorder. 

I think the blame game is what kept me coming back in a repetition compulsion over and over again to free myself. I wasn't guilty of doing anything wrong- just ashamed that I couldn't do anything right. The initial high of being mirrored and adored as the "good object" was incredible and unlike anything I had ever experienced. When I was split into a "bad object" I literally died a thousand deaths.

I purchased James F. Masterson's book on The Narcissistic and Borderline Disorders (written in 1988.) It is an incredible book that discusses how Borderlines are made, not born. A few of these revelations were important enough to free me from the severe effects and toxic shame of splitting- so I'd like to pass them along below:

******************************

Borderlines are people in psychological bondage.  Their earliest source of human interaction (the Mother, i.e; parental object) may have also been in psychological bondage- and clung to others.  The easiest person to cling to- is a person who cannot say no, i.e., her child.

The Mother may have idolized the infant at birth as a reflection of herself but never allowed the child to separate (autonomy.)

Instead of raising her child to be authentic and with a solid concept of self, she subsumed and objectified the baby as a permanent part of herself. Mother adored the baby as a reflection of herself, causing the baby to mirror and then cling to her - in response to Mother’s fears. Mother then began to suspect and fear the child’s separateness which triggered her own separation anxiety and she began to scapegoat the child for having its own mind.

This taught the infant to hide the true self and provide a false self instead, one that was the perfect mirror to prove worthiness and to survive the whims of the hypercritical Parent. The child learned that to become something other than an “object,” a mirror… was wrong.  Any attempt to become something other than the objectified mirror triggered the Mother’s separation anxiety. The Mother, and perhaps Father in turn, said, “Who do you think you are?” scapegoating the child for its efforts to detach from them.

According to James F. Masterson, scapegoating is the cause for the Borderline’s failure to learn the necessary *adaptive skills* to free themselves from bondage. Their frustration turns inwardly directed and results in “generally some form of sado-masochistic sexual adaptation, which reflects the earlier level of aggression and conflict.”  (Pg. 135 The Narcissistic and Borderline Disorders. Masterson author)

If you’ve ever wondered why sex is so incredible with a Borderline- it’s because they use it to serve you while fulfilling their bondage compulsion. Does the borderline love?  Yes. Does that love equate with freedom to be and live the way they want? No. Love has been taught to be a choreographed pattern of response to their objectification (nullification of self)- with servitude, mirroring, and clinging to ensure that they survive. To a Borderline: “Love is Bondage.”

You will be admired, adored and then clung to and when you attempt to peel them off and expect them to be self sufficient- they will use the only thing they were taught - SCAPEGOATING.

See how this works?

What was once a masochistic self-sacrifice to attach to you and use you as the (good) carrier- now requires a sadistic split.

Problem? The person they perceive to be both worthy of serving and holding them hostage (the current replacement for their Mother) is now telling them they are free to go and be whomever they want to be in life (known to Nons as authentic love and trust.) The Borderline does not understand this and perceives it as a withholding of approval at their compulsive clinging and this eventually turns to the perception that YOU have left THEM. (Love subsequently turns to hate.)

If none of this makes sense, try to think of it this way. Borderlines are not dumb, although they appear to do stupid things.  They are like Remora fish that attach themselves onto sharks.

The original Shark relationship (their very first attachment) was the Mother Shark. It was the Mother Shark’s job to raise the infant shark and send it off as a fully functioning and self reliant Shark. But something occurs in the process, based on the Mother Sharks separation anxiety. Rather than allow the baby Shark to grow up and leave, she begins to cling in fear of letting go- and the baby shark responds by making itself smaller and weaker, effectively turning itself into an attachment on the Mother Shark, (like a Remora fish.)

The two then begin to swim around the Ocean together, with the fake Remora eyeballing every other Shark that swims by as a possible source to cling to other than “Mother Shark.”

Spotting a new “Mother” source, the fake Remora must detach and puff up in stature so it appears to be a Shark, swimming alone. (Borderlines know that to detach before a new Shark can be found is very frightening- so they don’t detach from one source unless they are certain that they can attach to the new source successfully.) Mirroring the new source is done with a candied hook of adoration and valuation (this is the truth- they really do need you to survive.) without appearing too eager or undeserving or too pathetic.

Once you are successfully coupled, (based on what is an *incorrect* mutual perception that you are both sharks) Borderlines begin to switch back to being clinging Remoras, as this is what their perception is of an "intimate connection": i.e; one of bondage and servitude taught in childhood. 

The new “Mother” Shark (that's you) becomes annoyed, and begins to coax, calm and cajole the once free shark *to stop -Please- stop!* being a Remora- trust that everything is OK and will turn out fine and relax and go back to being a Shark again- like when you first met.

With the new “Mother” shark (you) encouraging detachment and the Remora (borderline) discouraging detachment- the behaviors (a dual mix of servitude to each other) begin to clash. The Borderline mind rails against the thought that they are able to swim as Sharks on their own (impossible!) and they panic and act impulsively to seek a new Shark to attach to- while scapegoating the former Shark. (Scapegoating= a taught behavior from childhood)

The impulsive Behaviors and scapegoating are their brains way of working over the same reactions to intimacy in a repetition compulsion- but they fail to see the futility of their failed efforts. Logic is not the Borderlines strong point.

If they had been taught logic in their childhood- rather than be at the whims of capricious caretakers, they would have understood long ago that this pattern of self-sabotaging behavior is reflecting on their programming in childhood and their parents were wrong.

All of this programming operates so far under the surface of things- the subconscious- that it’s like a hidden bug in the operating system.  There isn’t a pill or a virus scan that will cure it.

A new program has to be installed and that cannot be done until the owner of the computer agrees that their hard drive has crashed and they need a new system install.

Until then, consider it defective until the owner takes responsibility.

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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2010, 05:40:46 AM »

Does the borderline love?  Yes. Does that love equate with freedom to be and live the way they want? No. Love has been taught to be a choreographed pattern of response to their objectification (nullification of self)- with servitude, mirroring, and clinging to ensure that they survive. To a Borderline: “Love is Bondage.”

You will be admired, adored and then clung to and when you attempt to peel them off and expect them to be self sufficient- they will use the only thing they were taught - SCAPEGOATING.

Wow-thanks for sharing this... .it really makes sense.  My ex seemed so strong and confident in the beginning, but then as the initial adoration period started wearing off, and I tried to live my life and let him live his, trying to remain as a couple, but also "do our own thing", that's when he started feeling "trapped".  He would say this a lot, that he felt trapped.  When I tried telling him to figure out what he wanted to do to feel less trapped, he froze and started spiraling down a path where I was now the enemy.

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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2010, 06:09:36 AM »

It's a hard pill to swallow- but you replaced the Parent. You will never *not* be scapegoated. The good news is: you actually got in there close enough to replicate the parent bond. The bad news is... .

The scapegoating helps protect them. It's what they know. It's what they've been taught. There's nothing you can do to escape it- and every conversation you have after you've been split will only appear to them as sadistically motivated. To persuade them that you don't deserve the enemy behavior is pointless. They just dont understand it. In their minds, the conflict is with your behavior- not theirs. They may be confused- and admit they are confused- but they wont hear a word you are saying.

It took me awhile to realize this. Nothing would change. I would be and will be a scapegoat for the rest of my life. Reason enough to stop arguing about it- although I still get the urge... .It's been my greatest struggle- to let go of the outcome of something that never made sense. Now, it does.

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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2010, 06:59:22 AM »

this is interesting because usually I am the clingy one in a relationship.  i tried not to be for this one, for once in my life.  i remember in the beginning leaving her house and saying "okay, let's take tomorrow off and do our own thing and then see each other on Wednesday".  i really honestly thought i was doing this for HER ... .I, of course, wanted to see her 24.7 but usually that pushes people away.  i remember she got annoyed with me making a "schedule" for us ... .and even at the time, i was thinking, perhaps i am not taking ENOUGH time off?  immediately after that she started pushing me and acting as if she was annoyed that i was spending too much time at her house, and she became in complete and total control of when we would see each other, and it never changed after that.  mine was NOT clingy towards me, and it was perhaps because i, at the beginning, was trying to let her do her own thing.  i really thought that's what she wanted.  and yes, that is healthy.  but funny with the new chick they don't do anything unless it's with each other.  and how sick is it that i now wish i would have just been my clingy self from day one?  but i'm sure in some way that would have just prolonged the relationship, and she would've inevitably cheated on me like she does everyone.  whatever.  i can't have regrets on this one.
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2010, 08:02:32 AM »

For me, I remember at the end she would tell me how she felt smothered by me and that she didn't want me around and I found this incredible! I never once invited myself over, she asked me, she would go AWOL for weeks at a time and I didn't enquire and in the earlier days she would ask "why dont you care what im doing". I was just giving her space and respecting her life. LOL. Not the right way (if there is one) to deal with a borderline.

But you are saying that she felt smothered and out of control because I was actually giving her freedom? If thats the case then this all makes a little more sense!
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2010, 09:39:13 AM »

Excerpt
Problem? The person they perceive to be both worthy of serving and holding them hostage (the current replacement for their Mother) is now telling them they are free to go and be whomever they want to be in life (known to Nons as authentic love and trust.) The Borderline does not understand this and perceives it as a withholding of approval at their compulsive clinging and this eventually turns to the perception that YOU have left THEM. (Love subsequently turns to hate.)

This is so, so true, and why any sort of grown-up, logical discussion of the relationship was destined for failure.

I know he hates me now.  I can just about FEEL it.  And that's okay.  He's disordered, he's made up the story in his mind to support the emotions that he felt, and there's no sense in ruminating about it, because the good thing about it is that he's gone away, is NC, and I am convinced he will stay that way.

Surely a supply source who is ignorant about all of this is a much better possible host than one who has already been there done that and no longer wants to wear the t-shirt.   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Thank you for posting this, 2010.  I read it on the other thread as well, but a second read gave me even more insight.

VanessaG
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2010, 09:38:41 PM »

I found this post very interesting and enlightening, thanks for posting it.

My ex constantly complained that I wasn't letting her be her own person and was always in complete control of what she did. For a period I even thought this was possible, but upon some reflection I realized I always let her be her own person, and encouraged her in every way I could when she demonstrated independence, or her own interests. When I think back now, not once did I ever discourage her from doing anything that would of demonstrated her freedom in the relationship. In fact I was elated when she exercised the freedom I wanted in the relationship on both sides because for time it allowed me to exercise mine. Whenever I would express the desire for us to each have freedom to hang out with friends and do things independently,  she would complain that I didn't want to be a in relationship and wished to be single. Meanwhile, I wished nothing of the sort and was always relieved at the fact that I thought I had found the "one" and would no longer have to date - points to my co-dependence.

Since I left and made it very clear to her that I couldn't go on with the relationship because I couldn't handle the extreme emotion and anxiety the swings of relationship caused, she has refused to so much as speak to me. Her family communicated to me during the break up in place of her to handle the financial and mutual property issues - I simply let her keep it all. Her father even expressed to me that he would beat the living hit_ out of me I came close to her again, and that he had changed the locks on the apartment the day after I moved out... and left my only key. I had never so much as raised a hand to her during our entire 3 1/2 year relationship, or demonstrated any ill will to the family. Clearly I have been split, scapegoated, painted black, call it what you will.

It still amazes me 6 months after discovering BPD that their is an explanation for everything that happened, when at the time I couldn't make any sense of it at all. The more I understand about what happened the better I feel about my decision. Thanks again for posting.

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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 10:27:12 PM »

wow thanks for posting that! wow words to my thoughts and feelings today!   i swear i always felt like his mother... .and thought to myself my god she did a hit_ty job raising him... .sorry if that sounds awfull... .feels good to get it out!  i so encourraged him to by his motorcycle... go fishing... .make new friends... whatever! because he never had fun... .he saw all this as rejection!  anyways... i could go on for ever... .i will read this post over and over... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 03:39:40 AM »

I think it hits on a few good points but I think the reasoning is flawed.

For me its basically saying that BPD is a learned behaviour and they cant progress from it. Whilst I agree a lot of BPD behaviour is learned the reasoning behind I believe is totally different.

As more research is done more and more is pointing to genetics and brain abnormalities as the root cause.

If this is the case then a person is born with BPD. If these brain abnormalities cause hormones to be imbalanced then a pwBPD will learn ways to rebalance them over time. As a child having a tantrum might make them feel better so they learn when they feel a certain way that raging will calm them. As they get older they find more and more ways to rebalance themselves. When they become sexually active they find that sex helps so they may become promiscuous. They may find shopping eases the way they feel but then have to suffer the debt. Like a drug addict the short term gains overshadow the long term losses.

The other part that irks me is that the post says that its a parent to blame. There are plenty of parents here raising BPD children who did not raise them as suggested. Plenty of children where the BPD parent was never involved in their upbringing.

This brings me onto another factor which is 40% of pwBPD are supposed to get it from environment. I believe this figure is way to high as even though the parent might have been toxic the child may have been born BPD anyway.

One final thing about learned behaviour is that if BPD was learned behaviour then it can be unlearned. We can switch our taste in food, politics, activities, religion things that we may have done or believed since childhood yet it takes years of intense therapy to change BPD behaviour but  not cure it completely.

Yes I did feel like a father figure more than a partner by the end of my marriage and yes my exs both have very intense attachments to their mums but I think its more a security blanket than Stockholm syndrome.
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 10:14:33 AM »

Hmm. An interesting take enlighten me.

As more research is done more and more is pointing to genetics and brain abnormalities as the root cause.
Yes, you're right that it's been put forward that genetics are part of the root cause. So it's possible that genetics can contribute.

If this is the case then a person is born with BPD.
Yes, if genetics is the 100% cause, then it would follow that BPD follows from the point of birth.

For me its basically saying that BPD is a learned behaviour and they cant progress from it.
Where are you reading this part?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 10:24:23 AM »

Thanks 2010, loving the shark analogy, I can definitely relate to this a lot. I never wanted to be a parent, I wanted to be in a partnership with an adult, a free spirited independent woman whom had purpose and could be additive to my world.

In my pwBPD I can see clearly a cognitive deficiency and a parental influence. I see there are elements of my wife such as her ability to problem solve or her ability to understand cause and effect which are most likely purely brain configuration led, but I can also see traits such as her allergy to guilt and shame which appear to come from her parental upbringing. Her mother also has an allergy to guilt and shame so took it upon herself to guilt and shame my wife for every error she could see. Deflection can be insidious for a child, they know it's not their fault but they are genetically programmed to believe their parents. There's nowhere else for the guilt and shame to go but themselves. Untreated core shame can rot an individual and turn a person from a bit dippsie to angry, aggressive, projection, deflection, passive aggressive and all the coping mechanisms that come with that inner hurt. that inner hurt has nowhere to go other than someone else... .or themselves.

I can imagine a scenario where a perfectly reasonable and healthy parent treating a child in a perfectly normal way can be toxic to a child with BPD potential. If one lacks the ability to cognitise cause and effect, discipline makes little or no sense. If a child believes that they were doing the right thing all the time yet is punished justly for their wrong doings, that child will have no ability to rationalise and therefore only damage their inner ego. I believe, and I see it in my own children, there is a specific way a sensitive adult can discipline a child in a way which enables them to fully appreciate why they are being disciplined. Sensitive children NEED to have discipline explained to them such they really understand why doing x hurts other people. It's very important (I find) that the child is able to come to that conclusion themselves with the help of conversation BEFORE they are allowed to "escape" from discipline, else they may not know why discipline has occurred or why people are cross with them.  

I'm a huge fan of Jujitsu parenting
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 11:26:16 AM »

By saying that the mother mollycoddled them and wouldn't let them develop. To me this is saying that by not allowing them to let go of the apron strings its stopped them from developing properly.  

Excerpt
"Borderlines are people in psychological bondage.  Their earliest source of human interaction (the Mother, i.e; parental object) may have also been in psychological bondage- and clung to others.  The easiest person to cling to- is a person who cannot say no, i.e., her child.

The Mother may have idolized the infant at birth as a reflection of herself but never allowed the child to separate (autonomy.)

Instead of raising her child to be authentic and with a solid concept of self, she subsumed and objectified the baby as a permanent part of herself. Mother adored the baby as a reflection of herself, causing the baby to mirror and then cling to her - in response to Mother’s fears. Mother then began to suspect and fear the child’s separateness which triggered her own separation anxiety and she began to scapegoat the child for having its own mind."

If the above is the case then their behaviour is learnt from the parent as they have not been allowed to develop their own self. This just doesn't ring true with me. Yes they might seek comfort from a parent figure but this doesn't mean the parent has stunted their development.

If a stroke victim can learn to walk and talk again then bad behaviour can be unlearnt a lot easier. With BPD it isnt easy though. Its almost like a stroke victim having to use brain plasticity to retrain the brain to cope in a more appropriate manner.
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 12:32:58 PM »

Excerpt
By saying that the mother mollycoddled them and wouldn't let them develop. To me this is saying that by not allowing them to let go of the apron strings its stopped them from developing properly. 

I hear how you would get that from the passage you highlighted, but I'm not sure that's what the author intended. 

Excerpt
The Mother may have idolized the infant at birth as a reflection of herself but never allowed the child to separate (autonomy.)

What does a parent/infant relationship look like where the child isn't allowed to be a separate person/have his or her own needs?   Could this be a relationship where mom is present and attentive when the child is smiling and responsive but cannot cope when the child cries?  What's it like for a child who learns in infancy that his/her basic care needs (food, clean diaper, attention) aren't OK/can't be met/or are met with anger?
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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »

Thank you for sharing what you have learned about scapegoating.
How do we heal from being the scapegoat? For me, it has helped to recognize that there are many parts of me. Sometimes I do indeed suffer from how horrible I feel as the scapegoat, yet at other times I feel great when I tap into my potential as a human being, and I engage with people and activities that reinforce me in a positive way.
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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2018, 01:07:18 PM »

I'll give an example.

My exgf has 3 children from 3 dads. They have all been mollycoddled by their mum. Her fear of abandonment leads her to be over protective as the passage describes. If she tells them off she then goes out and buys them a present rewarding them for their bad behaviour. Out of the 3 children the eldest displays strong BPD traits. She has since she was 6 years old. The other two one of which is my son seem perfectly normal and well adjusted. If what the passage was saying that the parent smothers the child so they become dependent on her and so develop BPD then I think it is way off mark. 
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2018, 05:59:49 AM »

Thank you for sharing what you have learned about scapegoating.
How do we heal ... .
Thank you for sharing zachira. I think that's a good way to handle when a person is blamed for something that wasn't their fault or their responsibility. There are many parts of you, some that you desire less of and some that you desire more of. I do think it's also about creating more opportunities for the parts of yourself that you want to thrive. Positive engagement with others and activities--that's a good way.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2018, 09:17:54 AM »

For me its basically saying that BPD is a learned behaviour and they cant progress from it.
By saying that the mother mollycoddled them and wouldn't let them develop. To me this is saying that by not allowing them to let go of the apron strings its stopped them from developing properly. 
Yes, this makes sense--when dependence upon the parent is taught to a level that undermines self-differentiation by the child, and we assume the child is powerless to ever take control of their own behaviour, then that's indeed a sad outcome.

And when dependence upon the parent is taught to a level that undermines self-differentiation by the child, and we assume the child is not powerless to ever take control of their own behaviour, then that's hopeful.

That makes sense with what you said here:
... .behaviour can be unlearnt ... .




If what the passage was saying that the parent smothers the child so they become dependent on her and so develop BPD then I think it is way off mark. 
Again--yes; if a parent creates that excessive dependence and later the child is unable to take responsibility for his or her behaviour--then that's a glum fate indeed.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

So when the owner takes responsibility for their behaviour, it then allows that owner (the child in this case) to control their behaviour. Interestingly, that's consistent with what 2010 mentioned here:
A new program has to be installed and that cannot be done until the owner of the computer agrees that their hard drive has crashed and they need a new system install.

Until then, consider it defective until the owner takes responsibility.

So then it follows that the child can change their destiny despite the parent's infantilising or hypercriticism--and that requires responsibility. They have within them the power to change their own destiny.
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2018, 02:03:44 PM »

Unless they are hard wired to follow in the parents footsteps.

If as a child one parent told us the sky was green would we go through life believing this?

As we grow and interact we form our own identity and ideas even as a young child.

For BPD to be caused by one parent it would mean they would have to isolate that child from the outside world and never let them see a different perspective than the parents.
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2018, 09:44:06 PM »

What's that line from the movie The Crow?

"Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children."

Parents are the most significant factors for children forming their own identities,  differentiating into their own senses of Selves.

Quote from: gotbushels
So then it follows that the child can change their destiny despite the parent's infantilising or hypercriticism--and that requires responsibility. They have within them the power to change their own destiny.

Then again,  this is our point of view.  I know a dBPD, diagnosed also with depression,  GAD, and PTSD who embraces her illnesses.  And if you don't like it you can eff off is her attitude.  She has always been a locus for drama,  and now at 41 (I've known her since she was 9), that's the way she chooses to cope.  Though she accepts her diagnoses,  everyone else is still the problem.  
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