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Author Topic: They really were our soul mate(s)  (Read 8419 times)
T2H
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« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2010, 04:53:56 PM »

I know of course you didn't mean to upset me Smiling (click to insert in post) And I do understand your point. I guess I am not healed enough to give that woman credit for anything positive in my life or to think of her as a teacher. Of course our experiences teach us but I think many go thru life just fine without having a BPD relationship. I realise I was targetted and I realise that I had to change but it rankles me too much to give her credit. I was badly hurt and my ego took an almighty bang which almost cost me my job. That it didn't and i survive is where I congratulate myself and I think i'd rather focus on that, than glorifying her role in it. I do understand what you are saying and like I say, im just not feeling so charitable as to give her any credit for anything. Maybe one day when the pain has lessened further I might be more generous.

Understood.  

Btw, trying to make things work with my ex cost me 3 jobs (two I had offers for but wasn't able to take due to our future plans, and one I just started that I had to quit after we broke up because I was hit so hard by depression).  And it almost cost me my life - several times.  But now I'm much better off (spiritually) than I was before I met her.  I don't thank her for that - or think she specifically was a positive force in my life.  But I'm not mad at her either - it doesn't make what she did right - but forgiving her is something for *me*, that's part of my healing.

We all have our paths/opinions/perspectives.  I've just been a pessimist for most of my life - and it hasn't been a huge benefit to me.  I'm trying to be more positive - we'll see how that works out.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

ps.  Interestingly my ex started off (appearing to) be the original definition of SM and then became the one I've posted about in this thread... . I wonder if that's related... .

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« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2010, 04:54:52 PM »

Excerpt
Of course our experiences teach us but I think many go thru life just fine without having a BPD relationship.

Oh good heavens, I don't think any of us here would recommend it in order to learn a life lesson!   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) 

[Edited to add:

Hell, I lost my mother at a very young age.  It taught me a lot.  A painful lot, but yeah, no way would I say losing a mother early is therapeutic for young children.  I guess there's some sense of taking lemons and making lemonade.  In an overly simplistic sense.]

Excerpt
Are we discussing soul mates in this context?  Would that mean painting them white?  If we use the phrase, are we setting ourselves up to struggle with an expectation, a romantic ideal?

Or is it merely someone who makes a (predestined?) profound impact on our lives?  A list of someones?

I think that the definition is the key thing here.

For me, I thought the pwBPD in my life was your first definition.  A romantic ideal.

It turns out he fit the second definition much, much better.  Someone who tore everything up and made a serious impact.

VanessaG


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« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2010, 04:57:27 PM »

Excerpt
I've heard about the book for awhile and considered getting it - but read some reviews about the author being fairly self-centered - I've just had two relationships with women where that was the case, so I figured I'd give it some more time.

Well T2H, being that you are the strong, sensitive type, I'd give it a go.

And I'm sort of  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) about the self-centered part, because the whole book was about a woman's journey to find herself.  Not sure you can get any more self-centered than that.

But I found her to be a rather likeable character, flawed and foibled like all of us, but genuinely funny and likeable.

Guess Julia Roberts is playing Elizabeth Gilbert in the movie version.  Have seen trailer but not quite sure when it comes out.

We can have a bpdfamily.com Movie Review.

VanessaG
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« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2010, 11:57:12 PM »

TH2,

We probably all have our own perspective on our own personal situations.  I have the same as yours.  To me it was different from something else horrible, such as losing a mother or being the victim of a crime, because of my own role in it.  Although he was manipulative, and I had nothing to do with that- it was the situation where I could be manipulated like that and fall for someone like that and continued (for a time) to be tormented by, and addicted to, someone that abused me.  I had to learn my part in it. 

If I hadn't had a BPD in my life, I would probably continue to this day to find others that were unhealthy for me, even if in a lesser way.  I needed the 'big bang' to wake me up.  To be able to really find a truly wonderful life; not just one where I meandered through a world that was just 'ok'.  My life is much better than ok now.  I guess for some of us, it takes 'hitting bottom' to reach higher levels of consciousness about ourselves.  All of the nice advice and mentors I had over the years didn't affect my awareness like this did.  None of it changed me like this did. 

Since relationships in my past weren't 'that' bad, I didn't really 'see' the need to change 'that' much.  This did that.  I am grateful for it.  I do see it as a gift.  Do I wish I were the type of person that didn't 'need' something like this in order to greatly improve my life?  Sure.  But now that the pain is gone, and I am no longer addicted to the drama, etc., I have found someone that also had to hit bottom to get to where he is now.  We understand one another and the importance for constant self-growth.  We have a common awareness.  I don't think the same things would have been as important to me. 

Many people don't need this type of pain to grow, but I know this is a common philosophical idea- to grow the most, you must have had pain.  -In my case, pain that I had the power to ultimately stop.  Otherwise, why change?  This was a great thread.  Thanks to everyone.

Foiles

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« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2010, 12:17:07 AM »

TH2,

We probably all have our own perspective on our own personal situations.  I have the same as yours.  To me it was different from something else horrible, such as losing a mother or being the victim of a crime, because of my own role in it.  Although he was manipulative, and I had nothing to do with that- it was the situation where I could be manipulated like that and fall for someone like that and continued (for a time) to be tormented by, and addicted to, someone that abused me.  I had to learn my part in it. 

If I hadn't had a BPD in my life, I would probably continue to this day to find others that were unhealthy for me, even if in a lesser way.  I needed the 'big bang' to wake me up.  To be able to really find a truly wonderful life; not just one where I meandered through a world that was just 'ok'.  My life is much better than ok now.  I guess for some of us, it takes 'hitting bottom' to reach higher levels of consciousness about ourselves.  All of the nice advice and mentors I had over the years didn't affect my awareness like this did.  None of it changed me like this did. 

Since relationships in my past weren't 'that' bad, I didn't really 'see' the need to change 'that' much.  This did that.  I am grateful for it.  I do see it as a gift.  Do I wish I were the type of person that didn't 'need' something like this in order to greatly improve my life?  Sure.  But now that the pain is gone, and I am no longer addicted to the drama, etc., I have found someone that also had to hit bottom to get to where he is now.  We understand one another and the importance for constant self-growth.  We have a common awareness.  I don't think the same things would have been as important to me. 

Many people don't need this type of pain to grow, but I know this is a common philosophical idea- to grow the most, you must have had pain.  -In my case, pain that I had the power to ultimately stop.  Otherwise, why change?  This was a great thread.  Thanks to everyone.

Foiles

wow, nice, this gives me great hope... thanks for posting... .this is one post i will re read for sure... in times of need!
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« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2010, 12:27:45 AM »

I read Eat, Pray, Love before I met the pwBPD in my life and then again when we were in NC.

I thought this quote from the book was really powerful on the second read-through:

"People think a soul mate is your perfect fit, and that's what everyone wants. But a true soul mate is a mirror, the person who shows you everything that is holding you back, the person who brings you to your own attention so you can change your life.

A true soul mate is probably the most important person you'll ever meet, because they tear down your walls and smack you awake. But to live with a soul mate forever? Nah. Too painful. Soul mates, they come into your life just to reveal another layer of yourself to you, and then leave.

A soul mates purpose is to shake you up, tear apart your ego a little bit, show you your obstacles and addictions, break your heart open so new light can get in, make you so desperate and out of control that you have to transform your life, then introduce you to your spiritual master... ."

— Elizabeth Gilbert (Eat, Pray, Love: One Woman's Search for Everything Across Italy, India and Indonesia)

I read this book in March, soon after leaving my husband.  It spoke VOLUMES to me.  I realized, while reading the book, that I was supposed to write my own book about my journey with my husband.  I was journaling incessantly at that time and just looked through my notebook at some of the things I wrote about the book.

Some questions to answer for myself in the future:

"1. What are my choices to be?

2. What do I believe that I deserve in this life?

3. Where can I accept sacrifice, and where can I not?"

"He was powerful and I died of love in his shadow."

"The resting place of the mind is the heart... . The only place the mind will ever find peace is inside the silence of the heart.  That's where you need to go."

"There are only two questions that human beings have ever fought over, all through history.  'How much do you love me?' and 'Who's in charge?'  Everything else is somehow manageable.  But these two questions of love and control undo us all... . When I sit in my silence and look at my mind, it is only questions of longing and control that emerge to agitate me, and this agitation is what keeps me from evolving forward."

"I have fallen in love more times that I care to count with the highest potential of a man, rather than with the man himself, and then I have hung on to the relationship for a long time (sometimes far too long) waiting for the man to ascend to his own greatness.  Many times in romance I have been a victim of my own optimism."

I hadn't any idea this book was being made into a movie.  Being an avid book reader, I'm not usually a fan of seeing a movie after I've read a book.  This one I'd consider, though.  It was a great book in my opinion.
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« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2010, 03:17:01 AM »

Oh oh... .

Boundaries in Dating

By Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend

"... .your road map to the kind of enjoyable, rewarding dating that can take you from weekends alone to a lifetime with the soul mate you've longed for."

;p

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« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2010, 05:40:25 AM »

Reading that... .oww... ending up with another Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)   < where is the red/white/bleu/orange Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2010, 06:19:06 AM »

I won a trip to Bali a year and a half ago from work and took my current gf (non - thank God!). She read "Eat, Love, Pray" and suggested I read it since part of it was about Bali. I started to read it but got too distracted. She did say it was a fantastic read.

Back to the topic of "soul mate"... .still not buying it. I get that some people we encounter can leave an impact - both negative and positive... .but I still don't think they are "soul mates". Take WW II for example. Look at what happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis. I'm sure many Jews grew and learned many life lessons that they never forgot - trust, survival, mental toughness, perspective, etc. According to your definition, wouldn't that make the Nazis "soul mates"? In my mind they are just vicious, violent, disrespectful, selfish pieces of crap. What if WW II never happened? Many lives would be different. Lessons would not have been learned but I think other opportunities for growth could be learned.

Here's another example in my own life. I was working for my first company out of college many years ago. I had been there about 7 years and got put on a crappy project with an incompetent manager. She lied to me about a bonus & was just a disaster. H.R. backed her and I felt that i order to have my career progress I needed to get out of my comfort zone and leave. It was a big step and I did. I make tons more money, have way more opportunity, better benefits, etc. Was she my "soul mate" or just an idiot that forced me to react in a positive way in order to keep bettering myself on a better path? What lesson did I learn other than "don't work for idiotic managers"? If she were not in my path, I could have had another much better manager who could have helped my career right? Perhaps all the travel of my new job put space and distance between my wife at the time and I, and when the BPD witch came into the picture I reacted differently? Perhaps another manager would have meant I would have stayed, my career may not have flourished as much as it did, but my marriage may have still been in tact? My old manager didn't "teach" me anything that I didn't figure out on my own. All she did was put up a barrier in my career that I had to get around.

My issue is that the term "soul mate" seems to somehow imply some grandiose, magically, positive connotation. I believe that my experience with my exBPDgf is more about ME surviving, adapting, and learning not from HER, but from getting the heck away from her. I don't think she TAUGHT me anything. I think it's just a bad situation that I got myself into and got myself out of... .just because she caused the bad situation, then bailed, why does that make her my soul mate? How did she teach me anything? I learned my lessons on my own! She was no where to be found - well, hooking up on match.com looking for her next "soul mate" really! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

My other issue is that I feel you give your ex WAY too much credit for "teaching" you something that you probably learned on your own. Was she really a teacher/mentor or just a catalyst for a bad situation? Wasn't your T or others in your life more helpful in your healing process? Wouldn't they be the real soul mates?

Again... .just my 2 pennies... .

-NHBB
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« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2010, 06:27:22 AM »

Let's see if simplifying will help address all your points NHBB.  The definition I personally was alluding to from the start... .

Someone with whom you have an intimate relationship who causes such disruption in your life (good or bad) that your self is forever significantly changed thereafter.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Note that intimate can be any of... .physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual.

In that sense, my ex was a soul mate for me - but I wasn't one for her.  Maybe your ex wasn't one for you.

You don't have to agree - I'm just offering it as an alternate view.

Do you prefer the other definition instead... . that there's one soul mate that's perfect for each of us and together the two of you will live happily ever after?  (given you find her in time)

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« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2010, 06:54:41 AM »

Let's see if simplifying will help address all your points NHBB.  The definition I personally was alluding to from the start... .

Someone with whom you have an intimate relationship who causes such disruption in your life (good or bad) that you are forever significantly changed thereafter.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Note that intimate can be any of... .physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual.

You don't have to agree - I'm just offering it as an alternate view.

T2H,

Oh... .OK... .I get it now. So according to your definition, wouldn't that mean that every abusive ex-SO, stalkers and rapists would fall into the category of "soul mate"? I suppose if every ex who was immature enough to cause enough drama to make a big enough impact on our lives would be a "soul mate" as well? Wouldn't they, by definition, have an INTIMATE relationship AND cause such disruption in others lives (bad in the case) that the other person has been forever significantly changed (harmed/damaged probably)?

I hear what you're saying... .but my issue is that just because someone acts so inappropriate and abusive that they disrupt your entire life, shouldn't make them a soul mate. In the end, they are nothing more that a catalyst or an instigator - not a soul mate or teacher. It's US that are forced to react and find alternative paths in life and overcome their crap by learning WITHOUT them or IN SPITE of them. I don't perceive people who put up barriers or intentional negative challenges in our lives as "soul mates" since all they really did was be disruptive.

I appreciate your alternative view but I still don't agree. I guess I'm trying to offer you my alternative view too! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Smiling (click to insert in post)

-NHBB
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« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2010, 07:15:14 AM »

Ok well intimate in the 'connecting' sense - not like 'just sex' - nor anything (well anyone) that's forced upon you. And I guess I meant: positive spritual growth from it.

You haven't offered an alternate view - you've just been tearing down mine.  ;p  Do you agree with any definition of the term? Do you believe in it?

I'm curious why this seems (to me) like a touchy area for you... .

Have a good day! Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2010, 07:23:33 AM »

I imagine its the linguistical aspect. Many of us grew up defining soulmate as a person who enriches your life. Not someone who tears into your very being and leaves you a shell. What you are saying, in theory, is correct, people come into our life and change us and some people change us fundamentally but, for me, im not sure about BeachBum, giving them the moniker teacher or soulmate is to tarnish the word!

In my opinion, and I do realise you asked NH, but soulmate is a term reserved only for someone who truly enriches your life with love not via destruction, lies, infidelity and heartbreak. It sullies the word!
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« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2010, 07:42:59 AM »

Interesting. This may be another topic but... .how do you feel about alternate uses of the word 'love' ? Does it bother you when someone here says they love their partner but it's clearly something more akin to obsession/addiction?

Why is the term 'soul mate' both put on a pedestal and at the same time also despised (by many)?

Had to edit so I could add these... .   

Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2010, 08:27:52 AM »

T2H,

Like I wrote earlier, the term "soul mate" seems to have this magical, mystical aura connotation about some person that somehow "completes" us. According to your definition, anyone we were intimate with and disrupted our lives enough to impact us should be a "soul mate". To me it makes no sense to somehow elevate someone to the lofty stature of a soul mate just because that acted nutty enough to drive us away when in fact, the real growth and learning usually happens AFTER they are gone - not when they are still with us.

I personally detest the term "soul mate". People still joke about my exBPDgf and all her ex soul mates since she quickly (like within 2-3 weeks of first meeting) has her emotional diarreah and blabs to her latest conquest how they are her "soul mate" when in fact she really doesn't know the first thing about them except maybe that they were stupid enough to hook up with her at that point. That term represents the worst, most evilest person I have met. So yeah - I may be a bit touchy on that term. I may despise it for good reason. I learned NOTHING while I was with my... .umm... ."soul mate". I learned everything continually getting away from that toxic person.

I agree with TS - even professors or mentors who challenge us, make us work extra hard, throw obstacles at us in order to get us to better ourselves, apply ourselves more, etc - they are really soul mates since their intentions are to cause us good. My exBPDgf had no good intentions for me. She intentionally caused me harm and pain and suffering. The ONLY reason I grew is because of myself & my own instincts and resources. She did nothing to "help" me grow. In fact, if she had her way, I think she would feel happy if I were still suffering, unsuccessful, broken, damaged, etc. Just my opinion but that's not a "soul mate".

To answer some of your direct questions - no - I don't really believe in it. I could agree with SOME of your definition but I think it's too broad and general and ultimately makes no sense in that simply being disruptive enough to be a big enough pain in the *ss to leave a severe negative impact doesn't equal soul mate in my opinion. I offer no alternative definition since I don't really believe in soul mates... .but if I did it would be very similar to TS's. They would probably need to enrich and be positive.

I'm off to work now. Have a nice day.

-NHBB
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« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2010, 09:00:12 AM »

For what its worth... .we believed we were "Twinsouls" this idea was from early on in the relationship hers. I wanted it to be so.

When we made love ( not to be confused with sex ) I seemed to go to a different place that I would call "Spiritual"... .a place where I felt an enormous "blessed'" wonderment we could call "Love"... .but actually much more enriching... .It was like time stood still and we travelled together in total peace and oneness... .  I have never experienced anything like it before, and I have had many experiences to compare it to.

I have since realized that it was all part of the illusion, but then again it was very real to me in a positive way, and those shared moments will remain with me forever. Im terrified to get into another relationship because it cant possible compare.

Re: They really were our soul mate... .I`d say possibly yes, but from the dark and negative side.
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« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2010, 11:07:19 AM »

This is as may be, and I thought for a long time, because of the immense connection sexually, that we were "starred" but I think its the case they have that sexuality withg everyone! That was the thing that depressed me the most. That I may never have such a time sexually again and that... .to all purposes, she could get that involved and fulfilled with anyone she chose.   
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« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2010, 11:28:14 AM »

This is as may be, and I thought for a long time, because of the immense connection sexually, that we were "starred" but I think its the case they have that sexuality withg everyone! That was the thing that depressed me the most. That I may never have such a time sexually again and that... .to all purposes, she could get that involved and fulfilled with anyone she chose.   

I cant imagine she can have that with anybody else  but I'm sure she can play the part for anybody else ( within reason surely ?) ... .she said we are Twin Souls and that's why we shared those moments ( which I felt intensely ) but on the flip side I suppose she could play the part of someone's Whore... .anyway she last confessed that she doesn't and cant want sex (making love ) any more because she cant give, and never liked it anyway, always hated it she said, and was the only way to keep a man or he`d go looking elsewhere. I cant tell you the effects this had/has on me... .Its all a big theatrical lie.

Soul Mate, Twin Soul, Kindrid Spirit what ever we call it... .its all empty illusions, shattered dreams from "Boom to a bowl of dust"
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« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2010, 12:06:20 PM »

This is as may be, and I thought for a long time, because of the immense connection sexually, that we were "starred" but I think its the case they have that sexuality withg everyone! That was the thing that depressed me the most. That I may never have such a time sexually again and that... .to all purposes, she could get that involved and fulfilled with anyone she chose.  

I cant imagine she can have that with anybody else  but I'm sure she can play the part for anybody else ( within reason surely ?) ... .she said we are Twin Souls and that's why we shared those moments ( which I felt intensely ) but on the flip side I suppose she could play the part of someone's Whore... .anyway she last confessed that she doesn't and cant want sex (making love ) any more because she cant give, and never liked it anyway, always hated it she said, and was the only way to keep a man or he`d go looking elsewhere. I cant tell you the effects this had/has on me... .Its all a big theatrical lie.

Soul Mate, Twin Soul, Kindrid Spirit what ever we call it... .its all empty illusions, shattered dreams from "Boom to a bowl of dust"

In many ways the same from the girl's perspective (mine).  Except for the sad part that I think X meant the warm, supportive stuff when he said it.  Then he couldn't control the rage, fear, perceived abandonment, all that misogynistic crap.  And for lack of resolution of the abuse in his past -- an explosive combination of Mommy not protecting him from abusive men and X's own closeted bisexuality, it was summarily dumped on me.

Thanks for using the words "big theatrical lie" and "Boom to a bowl of dust" -- you've helped me to this realization.

It really reeks, though, doesn't it?  On to better days... .
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« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2010, 02:29:16 PM »

This is as may be, and I thought for a long time, because of the immense connection sexually, that we were "starred" but I think its the case they have that sexuality withg everyone! That was the thing that depressed me the most. That I may never have such a time sexually again and that... .to all purposes, she could get that involved and fulfilled with anyone she chose.   

TS,

So would you now consider her your soul mate after all the crap that she put you through?

It seems ludicrous and ridiculous that we think of them as our soul mates. Here's an analogy - what if you were driving down the street in a nice, new car going to work and ran over a pile of glass and got a flat tire. You saw some hot babe on the side of the road snickering and bragging to her friend about how she intentionally threw glass there. You had to change your flat yourself in the hot sun, ended up being late for work and got fired. All this started because of the hot babe. So would you then put her up on a revered pedestal and elevate her status to "soul mate" because you got to finally learn how to use your tire iron and change a flat? Should we think highly of them now that we had to find a new job? Meanwhile, they offer us no value and no help for the predicament they helped to get us in, in the first place! They're off repeating the same crap on another street. Should we thank them and perceive them as teachers that have made an impact in our lives or perceive them as thugs, punks, selfish mean spirited people who we randomly encountered and had a very bad experience?

Call them what you will... .label them how you like... .everyone's perception becomes their reality in the end.

-NHBB
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« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2010, 02:56:49 PM »

I happen to agree with NHBeachBum with this.  Probably b/c any definition of soulmate is non workable for me.  It's got too much mysterious, mystical, superstitious meaning attached to it.   I think we meet who we meet in life, some people good, some less good, some affect us, some don't for a myriad of reasons, and that who we happen to meet comes down to chance.  Maybe there is a dynamic in some of us, that brings us together with unhealthier people, mixed with bad luck that ur dynamic happened to come across their dynamic.  You could have just as easily never met their awful dynamic if you'd been a half hour later, stopped for coffee, whatever.  

You might meet some one who for diff reasons brings out the best in you, you might meet someone who brings out the worst in you, I think it all comes down to chance.  It's by chance that I was born in the USA, so I had a better chance of climbing out of poverty, had more chances to go to college, still have more chances to go back to school, so on, a lot of things are purely by chance.  Yeah, I could've still not gone to school.  You act within your environment, and your environment reacts to you, there are so many variables involved that it's hard to explain to you (T2h) an alternate theory to yours.  

While I try to make sense of PDs and all, I don't really think our encounters with them have much more to do with bad luck.  I certainly wouldn't give anyone I've known w/PD an elevated status or position in my life, by giving them a title like soulmate, that has certain connotations attached, whether I believe in them or not.  I tend to agree, that would be no different than giving a murderer or scammer or rapist, or whatever caused a person harm an elevated position.  I think the people in my life that have shown me the good and the positive are the ones that deserve my attention.  That helped me heal from bad experiences.  I don't believe you need to be broken/beaten down in order to grow or discover things about yourself.  Maybe some trials and tribulations are good, but abuse and mental/physical or emotional violations from other people, nah.

For me, the best place I can reach with any of these crazy people that had a negative impact on me is indifference.  I'm there with some, not yet with others, but soulmate? When I think of the word, it still has positive meaning attached to it, so although I don't believe in it, I can't find a way to apply it to any cluster Bs from my life.  

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« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2010, 03:02:51 PM »

 A matter of historical perspective then.

During the good times I was much more apt to give him the title.  Looking back on it now, I can't see it.  A learning experience, yes.  Soul mate? --- no, I deserve better.
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« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2010, 03:18:26 PM »

I think soulmates are people that get it! people that have done the work... .people that live to love at high levels and grow at free will, free from all the chains of the past, and have a high maturity level to never ever stay stuck in their own bullhit_!  People that are capable of loving deeply, all the time. there's my opinion.
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« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2010, 03:30:04 PM »

This is as may be, and I thought for a long time, because of the immense connection sexually, that we were "starred" but I think its the case they have that sexuality withg everyone! That was the thing that depressed me the most. That I may never have such a time sexually again and that... .to all purposes, she could get that involved and fulfilled with anyone she chose.  

TS,

So would you now consider her your soul mate after all the crap that she put you through?

It seems ludicrous and ridiculous that we think of them as our soul mates. Here's an analogy - what if you were driving down the street in a nice, new car going to work and ran over a pile of glass and got a flat tire. You saw some hot babe on the side of the road snickering and bragging to her friend about how she intentionally threw glass there. You had to change your flat yourself in the hot sun, ended up being late for work and got fired. All this started because of the hot babe. So would you then put her up on a revered pedestal and elevate her status to "soul mate" because you got to finally learn how to use your tire iron and change a flat? Should we think highly of them now that we had to find a new job? Meanwhile, they offer us no value and no help for the predicament they helped to get us in, in the first place! They're off repeating the same crap on another street. Should we thank them and perceive them as teachers that have made an impact in our lives or perceive them as thugs, punks, selfish mean spirited people who we randomly encountered and had a very bad experience?

Call them what you will... .label them how you like... .everyone's perception becomes their reality in the end.

-NHBB

Eh?

No NHBB I am subscribing wholeheartedly to the school she deserves no praise or label of soulmate nor teacher. I think she's a total *****!

I;m saying that while we were together in the early days I wondered if i'd found my soulmate because being with her, sexually only, was so easy and the sex was great, she would declare and so did I.

However, like other posters, as soon as the ___ hit the fan she also declared this was not great and that I was not great. The hardest part of letting go of her was letting go of this sense of otherness that I had with her sexually.

I would never describe her as a soulmate, a confidence trickster yes, a soulmate, never. I agree with you, to be a soul mate would mean showing us ourselves and helping us become better men thru kind acts, not destroying us.
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« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2010, 03:43:42 PM »

And to take the theory maybe a step further... .and perhaps I'm wondering into strange realms but if I could claim her to be my soulmate, then, given I was addicted to her and my recovery from her felt similar to and was described as by my therapist as akin to an addiction to drugs or alcohol - can alcoholics refer to alcohol as their "soul mate"?

The deep routed lessons I've learnt about myself, and continue to learn came about because of my lack of boundaries with my BPD, she is the substance that sent me to rock bottom and forced me to look in the mirror... .so by the same token drug/alcohol abusers should thank the drinks and the drugs? No, they should give credit to themselves for beating them not to the stimulus itself. In fact it isnt even as though drink and drugs call you up at 3am begging you... .

Im sure there is a valid point in here somewhere even if I havent quite worked it thru my cogs!  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2010, 04:32:22 PM »

It's seems like you're arguing against my definition using part of your own.  Maybe I could use a different phrase so we're not getting confused (but my point was that some people use it differently than what most are used to).  I'm not starting with the premise that 'soul mates' are something all high, mighty, elevated, spiritually developed, angelic, pure, the end-all-be-all, etc, etc.  I'm saying that some people use the term in a different way - that it's two souls who came together where that interaction caused at least one of them to move to a new level of awareness.  I'm not the one who came up with this (and can barely explain it apparently).

I'm a bit confused also that you would not believe in, nor agree to, any definition of soul mates but get so worked up that I would dare to even use that term to apply it to a pwBPD.  I don't think I used the term 'teacher' to describe them - I did say they were here to teach us something and/or we learned a lesson - but putting your hand on a hot stove when you're a kid teaches you not to do that, but I wouldn't call the stove a 'teacher' (again in the elevated sense you're assigning to that word).

We can agree to disagree I guess.

ps.  I'm not against people using the other definition if they like - I don't tend to agree with the notion of one true soul mate in the world for us - but I do understand the idea.

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« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2010, 05:01:26 PM »

I'm a bit confused also that you would not believe in, nor agree to, any definition of soul mates but get so worked up that I would dare to even use that term to apply it to a pwBPD.

Who's getting worked up, we're talking. Only this.

You're throwing around emotive language "dare to use" and "worked up". This is a philosophical debate around our experiences is it not? I'm not in the least bit upset. As I said last time when you felt you offended me.

And where do I say I do not agree to, or believe in any definition of soul mate. My case Im making I THINK... .is clear.

Soul mate to me would be someone who enriches our lives via good deeds and well wishes, a positive person, a kindred soul. Like I said originally, its all about linguistics.
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« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2010, 05:31:54 PM »



Sorry - that was directed towards NHBB.

What I don't understand are the examples about holocaust, rape, drugs/alcohol to refute the definition to which I was referring. Seems a bit extreme - as well as ignoring some of what I'm saying (like 'intimate', 'someone', etc).

I'm just not sure why you're arguing against it so strongly. If I had instead said that our ex's had God inside them (which some people believe everyone does), would you give examples why that doesn't make sense? 
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« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2010, 05:35:12 PM »

*looks around and wonders if any of that was pointed towards me as the last poster or still NHBB*

*goes to bed*
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« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2010, 05:43:50 PM »

What I don't understand are the examples about rape, drugs/alcohol to refute the definition to which I was referring.

Well, I can answer part of it, from my perspective.  I think my notion of soulmate was partly rooted in the addiction to the crazy dance.  I wanted him to be my soulmate, after all he said he was.  But he was also my abuser.  I got hooked into the gamble -- on some level, I was fighting inside over whether I deserved either extreme.

I think we just need to respect that we each have had a mind-bendingly intense experience in these BP relationships.  Perspectives may be different, they may change, but it's very individual.  Even when speaking of matters more spiritual, more to do with Fate -- or perhaps especially so.  What a betrayal to find someone who was SUPPOSED to fulfill that role and then discover such a different under-side.  Very tender stuff.  Makes us try to make sense of this whole thing on a wider, more cosmic level and that's pretty overwhelming.  And in my case, it hits a nerve because the pressure to be more "officially" spiritual came from -- guess who... .
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