Sexual Abuse?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Mine had no interest in sex like it was something distasteful.  Well maybe he was a narcissist but I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

His dad was an alcoholic and had no interest in having sex with the mother.  Eventually she had a boyfriend or two.  Also, he hates his dad.

This is what bothers me.  When I had been with him for ten months, she first came to visit.  He is a chiropractor and one night when she was there, he adjusted her and it seemed to go on way too long and there was too much laughing, etc.  I had to get up early for work.  I was on the sofa bed in the living room and she was in our bed.  I walked past the room a couple of times and of course nothing happened but I had an uncomfortable feeling, and no, she's not attractive, if anyone wants to know.  Also, on that same trip, she was in the bathroom  and he had to go.  He just walked in and whipped it out in front of her.  I thought that is was weird.

Last year when she was here she made an inappropriate comment at a family dinner about a woman's genitals, something that you would not say in mixed company.

On her last trip a little while back, I walked into the office and she lifted up her dress to show me how well her underwear matched her dress.  It was almost the same print.  I was a little embarrassed and I'm a girl.  You can imagine my surprise when she also lifted her dress and showed him.  I cannot imagine ever doing that with my son and it just makes me wonder.  What do you guys think?  Is it weird?

[ve01603]

Mine had no interest in sex like it was something distasteful.  Well maybe he was a narcissist but I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

His dad was an alcoholic and had no interest in having sex with the mother.  Eventually she had a boyfriend or two.  Also, he hates his dad.

This is what bothers me.  When I had been with him for ten months, she first came to visit.  He is a chiropractor and one night when she was there, he adjusted her and it seemed to go on way too long and there was too much laughing, etc.  I had to get up early for work.  I was on the sofa bed in the living room and she was in our bed.  I walked past the room a couple of times and of course nothing happened but I had an uncomfortable feeling, and no, she's not attractive, if anyone wants to know.  Also, on that same trip, she was in the bathroom  and he had to go.  He just walked in and whipped it out in front of her.  I thought that is was weird.

Last year when she was here she made an inappropriate comment at a family dinner about a woman's genitals, something that you would not say in mixed company.

On her last trip a little while back, I walked into the office and she lifted up her dress to show me how well her underwear matched her dress.  It was almost the same print.  I was a little embarrassed and I'm a girl.  You can imagine my surprise when she also lifted her dress and showed him.  I cannot imagine ever doing that with my son and it just makes me wonder.  What do you guys think?  Is it weird?

[Benny]

Hmmm,sounds wierd to me,cant imagine my mum doing that and the fact he looked on sex as something distasteful is odd for a male.

[ve01603]

Yep.  We hardly ever did it and hadn't for the last two years.

[RealEyes]

Mine had no interest in sex like it was something distasteful.  Well maybe he was a narcissist but I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

His dad was an alcoholic and had no interest in having sex with the mother.  Eventually she had a boyfriend or two.  Also, he hates his dad.

This is what bothers me.  When I had been with him for ten months, she first came to visit.  He is a chiropractor and one night when she was there, he adjusted her and it seemed to go on way too long and there was too much laughing, etc.  I had to get up early for work.  I was on the sofa bed in the living room and she was in our bed.  I walked past the room a couple of times and of course nothing happened but I had an uncomfortable feeling, and no, she's not attractive, if anyone wants to know.  Also, on that same trip, she was in the bathroom  and he had to go.  He just walked in and whipped it out in front of her.  I thought that is was weird.

Last year when she was here she made an inappropriate comment at a family dinner about a woman's genitals, something that you would not say in mixed company.

On her last trip a little while back, I walked into the office and she lifted up her dress to show me how well her underwear matched her dress.  It was almost the same print.  I was a little embarrassed and I'm a girl.  You can imagine my surprise when she also lifted her dress and showed him.  I cannot imagine ever doing that with my son and it just makes me wonder.  What do you guys think?  Is it weird?

ya know, the ex was telling me something as to the same thing u r telling us here, then i dealt with it from his family myself on facebook, it was very telling to me what he has been exposed to and now exposed this to females he courts bc of i feel his relationship wth his mom~

[2010]

I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

Where did you read that? And why did you believe it? It's not true.

Anyhow, believe what you must- even if it is a form of black and white thinking. Do what you need to push yourself away by labeling with sexual abuse. If it helps you- it helps you. Do what you must, but understand that the information you've been given is incorrect.

As far as Narcissists go- yes, there is an emotional preventative measure that keeps a wall around their perceived existence. It is a protection from annihilation and it involves being in control of their bodies... .

... ."the second type of narcissist reveals his true colours. He abruptly loses interest in sex and in all his sexual partners. The frequency of his sexual activities deteriorates from a few times a day – to a few times a year. He reverts to intellectual pursuits, sports, politics, voluntary activities – anything but sex.

This kind of narcissist is afraid of encounters with the opposite sex and is even more afraid of emotional involvement or commitment that he fancies himself prone to develop following a sexual encounter. In general, such a narcissist withdraws not only sexually – but also emotionally. If married – he loses all overt interest in his spouse, sexual or otherwise. He confines himself to his world and makes sure that he is sufficiently busy to preclude any interaction with his nearest (and supposedly dearest).

He becomes completely immersed in "big projects", lifelong plans, a vision, or a cause – all very rewarding narcissistically and all very demanding and time consuming. In such circumstances, sex inevitably becomes an obligation, a necessity, or a maintenance chore reluctantly undertaken to preserve his sources of supply (his family or household).

The cerebral narcissist does not enjoy sex and by far prefers masturbation or "objective", emotionless sex, like going to prostitutes. Actually, he uses his mate or spouse as an "alibi", a shield against the attentions of other women, an insurance policy which preserves his virile image while making it socially and morally commendable for him to avoid any intimate or sexual contact with others.

Ostentatiously ignoring women other than his wife (a form of aggression) he feels righteous in saying: "I am a faithful husband". At the same time, he feels hostility towards his spouse for ostensibly preventing him from freely expressing his sexuality, for isolating him from carnal pleasures.

The narcissist's thwarted logic goes something like this: "I am married/attached to this woman. Therefore, I am not allowed to be in any form of contact with other women which might be interpreted as more than casual or businesslike. This is why I refrain from having anything to do with women – because I am being faithful, as opposed to most other immoral men.

However, I do not like this situation. I envy my free peers. They can have as much sex and romance as they want to – while I am confined to this marriage, chained by my wife, my freedom curbed. I am angry at her and I will punish her by abstaining from having sex with her."

Thus frustrated, the narcissist minimises all manner of intercourse with his close circle (spouse, children, parents, siblings, very intimate friends): sexual, verbal, or emotional. He limits himself to the rawest exchanges of information and isolates himself socially.

His reclusion insures against a future hurt and avoids the intimacy that he so dreads. But, again, this way he also secures abandonment and the replay of old, unresolved, conflicts. Finally, he really is left alone by everyone.

In the meantime:

The narcissist cannot countenance your separateness. To him, you are a mere instrument of gratification or an extension of his bloated False Self. He resents your pecuniary wherewithal, is insanely jealous of your friends, refuses to accept your preferences or compromise his own, in envious and dismissive of your accomplishments.

Ultimately, the very fact that you have survived without his constant presence seems to deny him his much-needed Narcissistic Supply. He rides the inevitable cycle of idealisation and devaluation. He berates you, humiliates you publicly, threatens you, destabilises you by behaving unpredictably, fosters ambient abuse, and uses others to intimidate and humble you ("abuse by proxy".

You are then faced with a tough choice:

To leave again and give up all the emotional and financial investments that went into your attempt to resurrect the relationship – or to go on trying, subject to daily abuse and worse?

It is a well-known landscape. And you have been here before." ~ Sam Vaknin

[Lost In Space]

I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

Where did you read that? And why did you believe it? It's not true.

Anyhow, believe what you must- even if it is a form of black and white thinking. Do what you need to push yourself away by labeling with sexual abuse. If it helps you- it helps you. Do what you must, but understand that the information you've been given is incorrect.

  I am both confused & a little shocked by this reply to the original post. I find your reply a little difficult to follow as it is not immediately clear to me which parts are cut & pasted & which are indeed penned by you.

  It is my understanding that sexual abuse is often considered to be one of the many possible factors leading to the sufferer developing BPD. I have read extensively & a simple search will lead to many scholarly articles citing abuse as a contributing factor in the development of this illness, this abuse is very often sexual in nature. I know this to be the case in the histories of both of the pwBPD in my life.

  I must say that I also find the tone in the quoted portion above to be needlessly abrasive. I am sure that we all have triggers associated with dealing with this illness in our friends, families, children & partners but I believe the question to be a valid one & the received wisdom regarding the role of childhood sexual abuse in the development of some people's BPD is clearly proven, as often related in many professional publications.

  I hope that I don't cause offence with this post as none is intended. Childhood sexual abuse has played a devastating role in both my development & in that of my wife. I fortunately did not go on to develop BPD, my wife sadly did.

LiS

[Lost In Space]

It would be pointless for me cite endlessly, below is one such credible reference easily found by searching the internet...

<a href="www.ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/152/7/1059">Borderline personality disorder symptoms and severity of sexual abuse -- Silk et al. 152 (7): 1059 -- Am J Psychiatry[/url]

[RealEyes]

It would be pointless for me cite endlessly, below is one such credible reference easily found by searching the internet...

<a href="www.ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/152/7/1059">Borderline personality disorder symptoms and severity of sexual abuse -- Silk et al. 152 (7): 1059 -- Am J Psychiatry[/url]

thank you so much, Lost In Space, for taking the time and sharing this with us here. Of course it would cause such Disorder, dont need to be an expert today to know that sexual abuse especially by a parent will f@ck up the mind BIG TIME, period!

[RealEyes]

I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

Where did you read that? And why did you believe it? It's not true.

Anyhow, believe what you must- even if it is a form of black and white thinking. Do what you need to push yourself away by labeling with sexual abuse. If it helps you- it helps you. Do what you must, but understand that the information you've been given is incorrect.

As far as Narcissists go- yes, there is an emotional preventative measure that keeps a wall around their perceived existence. It is a protection from annihilation and it involves being in control of their bodies... .

... ."the second type of narcissist reveals his true colours. He abruptly loses interest in sex and in all his sexual partners. The frequency of his sexual activities deteriorates from a few times a day – to a few times a year. He reverts to intellectual pursuits, sports, politics, voluntary activities – anything but sex.

This kind of narcissist is afraid of encounters with the opposite sex and is even more afraid of emotional involvement or commitment that he fancies himself prone to develop following a sexual encounter. In general, such a narcissist withdraws not only sexually – but also emotionally. If married – he loses all overt interest in his spouse, sexual or otherwise. He confines himself to his world and makes sure that he is sufficiently busy to preclude any interaction with his nearest (and supposedly dearest).

He becomes completely immersed in "big projects", lifelong plans, a vision, or a cause – all very rewarding narcissistically and all very demanding and time consuming. In such circumstances, sex inevitably becomes an obligation, a necessity, or a maintenance chore reluctantly undertaken to preserve his sources of supply (his family or household).

The cerebral narcissist does not enjoy sex and by far prefers masturbation or "objective", emotionless sex, like going to prostitutes. Actually, he uses his mate or spouse as an "alibi", a shield against the attentions of other women, an insurance policy which preserves his virile image while making it socially and morally commendable for him to avoid any intimate or sexual contact with others.

Ostentatiously ignoring women other than his wife (a form of aggression) he feels righteous in saying: "I am a faithful husband". At the same time, he feels hostility towards his spouse for ostensibly preventing him from freely expressing his sexuality, for isolating him from carnal pleasures.

The narcissist's thwarted logic goes something like this: "I am married/attached to this woman. Therefore, I am not allowed to be in any form of contact with other women which might be interpreted as more than casual or businesslike. This is why I refrain from having anything to do with women – because I am being faithful, as opposed to most other immoral men.

However, I do not like this situation. I envy my free peers. They can have as much sex and romance as they want to – while I am confined to this marriage, chained by my wife, my freedom curbed. I am angry at her and I will punish her by abstaining from having sex with her."

Thus frustrated, the narcissist minimises all manner of intercourse with his close circle (spouse, children, parents, siblings, very intimate friends): sexual, verbal, or emotional. He limits himself to the rawest exchanges of information and isolates himself socially.

His reclusion insures against a future hurt and avoids the intimacy that he so dreads. But, again, this way he also secures abandonment and the replay of old, unresolved, conflicts. Finally, he really is left alone by everyone.

In the meantime:

The narcissist cannot countenance your separateness. To him, you are a mere instrument of gratification or an extension of his bloated False Self. He resents your pecuniary wherewithal, is insanely jealous of your friends, refuses to accept your preferences or compromise his own, in envious and dismissive of your accomplishments.

Ultimately, the very fact that you have survived without his constant presence seems to deny him his much-needed Narcissistic Supply. He rides the inevitable cycle of idealisation and devaluation. He berates you, humiliates you publicly, threatens you, destabilises you by behaving unpredictably, fosters ambient abuse, and uses others to intimidate and humble you ("abuse by proxy".

You are then faced with a tough choice:

To leave again and give up all the emotional and financial investments that went into your attempt to resurrect the relationship – or to go on trying, subject to daily abuse and worse?

It is a well-known landscape. And you have been here before." ~ Sam Vaknin

 !

thats all i have to say to this loong post tonight, have a good one!

[Matt]

Wow, ve, it sure sounds disturbing to me... .

Where are you with your partner now?  Are you still together?  Does he acknowledge any problems?

[RealEyes]

Wow, ve, it sure sounds disturbing to me... .

Where are you with your partner now?  Are you still together?  Does he acknowledge any problems?

yeah, this could cause PTSD to a Non n a heartbeat especially if she didn't know he had BPD?

[Benny]

In the reading and studying Ive done its very evident that sexual abuse is very prevalent amongst BPD sufferers,its not an absoloute but it is very prevalent.

My exBPD/NPDgf initially said there was no abuse but later intimated that there might have been,could have been but would never give me a definite answer and I was never sure whether this flip flopping was because there had been and she didnt want to talk about it or if it was manipulation.

At any rate it is widespread through out the community and is a major factor in why some people develop PD'S.

[Lost In Space]

~ Sam Vaknin

My apologies for not remembering where I had heard this name before, it is 1:47am here & I have had a particularly difficult weekend due to my wife's illness.

Sam Vaknin is a self aggrandising psychopath (diagnosed) who for many years has written often misleading information on the internet claiming to be a narcissist. I would urge people to research this person before they take anything written by him at face value.

LiS

EDIT: Below is a link to a documentary about Sam Vaknin...

<a href="www.blip.tv/file/2268740">I, Psychopath[/url]

[RealEyes]

~ Sam Vaknin

My apologies for not remembering where I had heard this name before, it is 1:47am here & I have had a particularly difficult weekend due to my wife's illness.

Sam Vaknin is a self aggrandising psychopath (diagnosed) who for many years has written often misleading information on the internet claiming to be a narcissist. I would urge people to research this person before they take anything written by him at face value.

LiS

EDIT: Below is a link to a documentary about Sam Vaknin...

<a href="www.blip.tv/file/2268740">I, Psychopath[/url]

i felt it n my gut this wasn't Kosher or that 2010 has been hopefully Phished? i hope that is the case here, time will tell!

thanks again for stepping up!

nite nite at 11pm here all!

[2010]

Yes, Sam Vaknin is a psychopath. He suffers from the psychopathology of narcissism. This he readily admits. Whether he writes for admiration and approval is not my concern- only that he writes.

His material references Otto Kernberg and Heinz Kohut, and their theories, which have helped me to understand “The Self.”

Kohut did much of his work on “The disorders of the Self.”  He took the concept of Object relations and determined the likelihood of defects in the sense of self came during the pre-oedipal period, which is 18mos. to about 3 years old. He found that Borderline and Narcissism were very similar, both due to Mother.   We all have Mothers- Mother was our very first “object” and she determines how we see ourselves.

In fact, James F. Masterson concluded that all people have tiny traits of Borderline and Narcissism in their personality.  The two are closely related but differ in self love and “object” love- They become malignant disorders when somewhere along the line the struggle to arrive at existence, which is ours and ours alone, doesn't allow for intimate contact and empathy for others.  Narcissism preserves the grandiosity of the “Self” (as a protective measure against annihilation) and the Borderline behaves in an “unresolvable rapproachment crisis” - as if life was one long failure to launch the “self” free and clear without dying alone.

Having sexual abuse during childhood would certainly add on to an already difficult sense of inner cohesion and continuity for the “self.” – The “self” would create coping mechanisms to deal with the fragmentation (the Talionic impulse and the failure to self soothe.)

That’s why this study that you provided a link to is trying to factor in the coping mechanisms to the severity of sexual abuse.

“This study explored the relationship of specific symptoms of borderline personality disorder to dimensions of severity of sexual abuse experiences in childhood.”

So there is a relationship between symptoms of Borderline (the Talionic impulse and the failure to self soothe) and “dimensions of severity of sexual abuse experiences in childhood.”  The study is about the relation between behavior and abuse.

It is not about naming sexual abuse as the cause of the disorder.

If there is an actual published AMA or APA document, one that references Kernberg, Kohut, Masterson, or Klein- and one that states the cause of Borderline as a sexual fragmentation during the pre-oedipal period, I would hope to read this and discuss it. I am always open to reading new material professionally.

I'm very sorry about the abuse you and your Wife suffered. In some poignant way, I hope you understand that I am here on the forum to speak of my own journey- to share with others and to provide an insight to what my experience living with Borderline means and how I choose to overcome it.

[1bravegirl]

Well we all have that right to heal as we feel fit, as far as what I have read in all my research, it not only states child abuse in all forms as a early developmental factor of the brain dysfuntioning for contributing to many emotional issues such as not having the ability to process normal feelings and emotional response or being able to  feel remorse and the consequences for their behavior, but most of the childhood trauma's that contribute to BPD are very complex and can be at many different levels of abuse and neglect and many have been physically abused and yes, sexually abused but more importantly, were devoid of any real love and confirmation of their own sense of self.  

Thus the need to find fault in others and feel suspicion towards others since they have no real feeling of who they are or any self esteem and know everyone must be out to get them and hurt them... Since they had noone really care about them in their life.  And if you try to love them, you must be lying and have an agenda...   it never ends.

In the end,  it really comes down to one thing.  sexual abuse or physical, or emotional neglect, it all fits in a criteria that has been proven to be strongly connected to the brain dysfunction and BPD symptoms from early on.  There really is no debating that is there?

Not everyone fits them all but they are all listed in most of the books I have read trying to understand "why"... "how"  and "when"... .

night... 1bg

[2010]

In the end,  it really comes down to one thing.  sexual abuse or physical, or emotional neglect, it all fits in a criteria that has been proven to be strongly connected to the brain dysfunction and BPD symptoms from early on.  There really is no debating that is there?

Are you saying that most or all of the Parents on the L4 forum (working with children who have BPD) have sexually abused, physically, or emotional neglected their own children?

[bigcasino]

I have been thinking about this and how it relates to my wife.  I know she has told me that her parents beat her when she was young.  Her dad is a drunk and when he comes home he starts pounding on who ever he feels like that day.  She said her mom was good and only hit her when she did something bad, then she would get a stick and chase her down.  I also think after meeting them that they were emotional abusive also. I am starting to think that the whole family is now BPD.  She also told me a story about her uncle trying to have sex with her when she lived with her aunt in her late teens.  she said he was drunk and she ran in her room and locked the door.  when I ask her what her aunt did when she told her she said she could never tell her aunt because she would think it was my wifes falt and blame her.  I dont know how at our wedding she could take photos and have hugs and kisses with this uncle after that.   I always wonder if there was more there that she dont tell me or she is blocking out.  I get the eeling that she was treated like the wickedd step child in her family. 

[vitalsigns]

I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

Where did you read that? And why did you believe it? It's not true.

Yeah, right. I beg to differ, unfortunately I've got to go to work now.

I think ICSA has a MAJOR if not DEFINITIVE role in my ex's BPD.

 

[ve01603]

To 2010:

Thanks.  I read all of that two and it was our situation to a tee.  But what I wonder is Why?

And in the beginning he complimented my accomplishments and lately I have made many more which were ignored, like you said.

[ve01603]

Realy eyes:

We're apart.  He had a nervous break down in May and blamed his family and me for taking him to the hospital.

He is going through some type of mid life crisis now.  Doing more drugs, more drinking, and has a buddy staying with him all of the time.

[ve01603]

Thanks Lost in Space.  I felt that it was kind of mean too and I have read in many places that childhood sexual abuse may be the cause.

[ve01603]

Wow, ve, it sure sounds disturbing to me... .

Where are you with your partner now?  Are you still together?  Does he acknowledge any problems?

yeah, this could cause PTSD to a Non n a heartbeat especially if she didn't know he had BPD?

Matt:

We are not together anymore.  He had some type of a breakdown in May.  Blames me and the family for taking him to the hospital.  Now he just does more booze, more pot, and runs around with a derelict buddy all of the time.  They are together almost 24/7.  Weird.

[Lost In Space]

Yes, Sam Vaknin is a psychopath. He suffers from the psychopathology of narcissism. This he readily admits. Whether he writes for admiration and approval is not my concern- only that he writes.

Sam Vaknin is a repulsive individual as is clearly shown in the documentary I linked to above.

He regularly delights in claiming to be a narcissist at some points & then he refutes this & claims

that he is a psychopath. He is well known for resorting to semantic pedantry to support his self

aggrandising arguments. His "writing" is in actuality the writing of others & his often incoherent

rehashes of others work is little more than a mockery.

Whilst he serves as a rather convenient "example" of disordered & often sadistic thinking I cannot

for the life of me understand why his presence, either in quotation or in actuality, could be considered

helpful here. He suffers from an untreated & severe mental illness, has no credible qualifications

(he bought his Ph.D) & a long & unpleasant history of delighting in visiting abuse upon others.

In my experience it is never a good idea to use the disordered ramblings of a person suffering from a mental

illness to try to understand that illness (unless in a professional & qualified sense).

Vaknin's clumsy diatribes on the subject are about his desire for attention. They are not born of a desire to

help anyone but are rather born of his need to be considered "clever", to trick people & first & foremost as a

means by which to make a fraudulent living. He is a mentally ill charlatan.

The links below explain all of the above if anyone wishes further clarification.

Narcissism Support Resources: Sam Vaknin: Diagnosed Psychopath

I, Psychopath

In the end,  it really comes down to one thing.  sexual abuse or physical, or emotional neglect, it all fits in a criteria that has been proven to be strongly connected to the brain dysfunction and BPD symptoms from early on.  There really is no debating that is there?

Are you saying that most or all of the Parents on the L4 forum (working with children who have BPD) have sexually abused, physically, or emotional neglected their own children?

It is very apparent that your inference is not what was intended in the post you quote. I am interested as to why you would write such an awful thing.

[Benny]

I have done some research on Sam Vidkin,as others seem to have,the man is seriously unstable and untreated,his own admission,and anyone who takes any notice of him has been duped.

If you put any faith in his opinions then you may as well have gone along with your exBPD/NPD's idea of how life works until you actually became insane.

I find it unbelievable that any of the people here on the boards would place any credence in any thing he says,MY GOD!

[Auspicious]

All participants- please look over and comply with these excerpts from the Guidelines:

Threads and posts should focus on topics directly related to your relationships with a person affected by a personality disorder or your emotional recovery and healing.

[... .]


Members shall offer only compassionate, well founded, fact based advice. While it is anticipated that most members have little or no formal training in therapy, members are expected to read and have some reasonable foundation before giving advice to others.

[... .]


Members critiquing, or challenging the advise of others should offer their comments in a respectful, positive and constructive manner. Members should respect and embrace the opinions of others, not deride them, and recognize diversity is an important part of the learning process. Forum is the exchange of ideas, not a debate or an argument to be won. Our common interests and goals are what brings us together - let it not be what comes between us.

[JoannaK]

Well maybe he was a narcissist but I know that a lot of BPDs were sexually abused as children.

This is a completely accurate statement.  Many with BPD were abused as children, either sexually or physically, and childhood abuse is associated with the development of BPD in many individuals.

In the end,  it really comes down to one thing.  sexual abuse or physical, or emotional neglect, it all fits in a criteria that has been proven to be strongly connected to the brain dysfunction and BPD symptoms from early on.  There really is no debating that is there?

However, many people develop BPD without being abused as children.  There appear to be multiple causes of BPD (varying from person to person) and there is ongoing research on the causes of BPD.   

Here's a discussion (with several links and quotes) about the causes of BPD:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=75517.0

[1bravegirl]

Thank you JoannaK, and Auspicious and everyone else who has been involved in the discussion.

I know we are not meaning to hurt anyone or say things the imply that moms with children suffering with BPD are in any way responsible for their childs illness. Unfortunately, the topic of this  thread has gotten a bit off the subject of what our poster is wanting help with... .Her situation with a pwBPD and understanding the disorder.

I am very sorry if I added to any hurt feelings, or wrong thoughts...

I only meant to list the facts of what the research I have read has stated and as JoannaK has stated,(which I failed to add) there are many cases in which there is no link at all to any of the previous references I made as far as criteria.  There are cases that have been  baffling to Drs and Therapists and they feel there was an underlying chemical imbalancement at birth or while they were developing and it has nothing to do with environmental factors.

The etiology of mental illness can be very obscured and many times here is no evidence that  the psychiatric disorder has a genetic or biological component/

There are so many individualized cases to study and all of them have their own unique set of circumstances and history not to mention genetic factors that can make some more predisposed to succumbing to the disorder.(i.e. an overly sensitive child or highly emotional from birth) not having anything to do with what has happened since the child came into the world.

Or none of the above...  no reason whatsoever;

The thing that is even more troubling is the difficulty in treating this disorder aside from what has caused it.  Granted, both are severely complex but in treating the disorder many Physicians avoid treating BPD since many patients get upset and angry with simple suggestions that would help most patients but with their insecurities and internal twisted dialog, they take the advice as a demeaning remark and a criticism and shut down.  Thus many Psychiatrists are left scratching their head and frustrated.  

This shows the complexity of the disorder when Drs are having a hard time even finding proper ways to communicate with their patient.

Thank goodness we have so much helpful information here with DBT and all the groundwork that has been done in finding Therapists that understand the delicacy of the matter and can find breakthroughs in reaching the pwBPD...  

This is a quote i found that really sums this conversation up, i think...

"Your standing on a chair changing a light bulb in your room. You fall off the chair on to your arm. Your arm hurts, you decide you need to go to the emergency room. On the way out the door you fall down a flight of stairs. Once at the hospital they discover you have a broken arm. Is it important if you broke your arm falling off the chair or falling down the stairs? Of course not. The only thing that is important is that you have a broken arm and it needs to be set and allowed to heal.

Many sufferers of BPD and family members/loved ones become fixated on the cause of the mental illnesses. When in actuality best course would be to use all that energy should be used to get the best treatment for their illness."

ve01603,  I hope you are doing well today and understanding the disorder better and more importantly finding the proper tools YOU need to keep making sense of all of this and keep the focus on Your personal growth and recovery from the pain and chaos of the relationship, however it turns out...

Keep posting and finding your balance in all of this.   Take good care...

Again, my apologies 2010, I meant no negative implications towards ones working with children with BPD... . take care and have a good week... .

[ve01603]

To 1bravegirl:

Thanks so much for the good wishes.  I am trying like hell because it's all that I can do.

[Matt]

vd01603,

You might want to consider starting a new thread.  This one has gotten a little off track, as 1bg says.  And your original focus - whether he was sexually abused - you may want to choose a different starting point if you are now thinking about where you go from here.  For example, you could start by describing where your thinking is at right now, and what choices you are considering, so others here can share experiences that might help.

Best,

Matt