Something unexpected happened...

[Depression = 72% of members]

And you are still married and feeling persecuted and victimized?... .etc.

No, I am not still married. No, etc. Please read through the posts above.

And while I do not find your perspective or interpretations accurate, I thank you for the concern.

[northerndragon]

And you are still married and feeling persecuted and victimized?... .etc.

No, I am not still married. No, etc. Please read through the posts above.

And while I do not find your perspective or interpretations accurate, I thank you for the concern.

[LW1968]

Nah, I didn't intend to describe the situation as cheating.  I apologize for doing that. 

The triangulation (read definition) thing---that was more descriptive and accurate regarding what I was thinking.  And I agree totally that you can't wait for closure because so often it just doesn't happen.  Both are good points.

I thought you were leaving options open with your ex in case at some point down the road, she were to get into treatment.  In other words, not together now, but not completely finished on your own terms with her.  That's why I thought the whole dating thing sounded like you were trying to find solace by having another relationship to occupy your thoughts.

I still see a huge difference, though, between deciding you're healthy enough to be alone & advertising yourself as dating material on a website.  I don't think you're selfish or predatory, but I do question one month (?) being adequate time to heal everything & be in the correct frame of mind to consider yourself dating material.   

[devastated1]

yes... .They can be mean and are mean. Not a doubt about it. They are also mentally ill. This is where you can recognize that they are mean and cruel and do not make good r/s partners and walk away.

devastated,

because, partially, while they do have a sense of right or wrong, its no longer about that. it's about disordered thought. it's about means to ends. it's about validation. perception. justification. being a victim.

OnTheHorror, luckystrikes,

Thank you for your replies.  I guess my question is do they know that they are being mean?  Is it mean behavior or are they really evil people?  Bc if they werent disordered then the behavior would clearly be evil.  Does the disorder really screw up their brains that they dont really see the evil that they did and somehow convince themselves that we are the persecutors?

northerndragon,

I think that you are doing the right thing.  You have to move on with your life and you were honest to this women.   You deserve a lot of credit for that. 

You also deserve to be happy!

[tuliplover]

I'm very concerned hearing the "I'm a big girl" comment. To me, that's a red flag that no one seems to notice. If she's a big girl, she would look at the situation and run, or jog on another path until you've got things a bit more straightened out.

ND, a healthy woman would not want to interfere right now. She just wouldn't. There is a lot of pain written in between the lines of your posts, especially regarding your kids. They deserve their father to be focused on them and only them right now. They are the most innocent victims of all. A strong, healthy "big girl" would do the right thing and tell you to take some time for you and your kids. She'd tell you to that she cares about you and that if a relationship is meant to be, it needs to happen in the future not now. This girl sounds like she wants some drama in her life. She sounds as if she wants to rescue you. And why? Because she can avoid what ever is happening in her own life.

I'm not saying you don't deserve a happy adult relationship life. YOU DO! But my concern for you is this woman seems to be saying just what you want to hear, is coming along at a time in your life when you are incredibly vulnerable, and so are your kids.

I don't think you are hurting her. I think she could be manipulating you, though.

I apologize if I've offended you in anyway. I know it's a struggle. You sound like a really great guy, who has been through an awful lot.

[once removed]

I'm very concerned hearing the "I'm a big girl" comment. To me, that's a red flag that no one seems to notice. If she's a big girl, she would look at the situation and run, or jog on another path until you've got things a bit more straightened out.

actually, that's not a bad point at all.

[OTH]

In their  minds you are the mean and cruel person. You have become the source of their pain and frustration. They feel they are acting out of necessity to protect themselves. It is nothing personal. You are simply another failed relationship in their life of failed relationship after failed relationship. It is a disorder. It has nothing to do with you or your actions.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=144802.0;all

Read through this post. I give my best explanation of it... .and then 2010 expands on it. If you are really interested in the details of the disordered thinking click on 2010's profile. Scroll to the bottom. Than click on 2010s latest posts links. You can go back and read all her posts. Incredible insight into the disorder in her posts.

yes... .They can be mean and are mean. Not a doubt about it. They are also mentally ill. This is where you can recognize that they are mean and cruel and do not make good r/s partners and walk away.

devastated,

because, partially, while they do have a sense of right or wrong, its no longer about that. it's about disordered thought. it's about means to ends. it's about validation. perception. justification. being a victim.

OnTheHorror, luckystrikes,

Thank you for your replies.  I guess my question is do they know that they are being mean?  Is it mean behavior or are they really evil people?  Bc if they werent disordered then the behavior would clearly be evil.  Does the disorder really screw up their brains that they dont really see the evil that they did and somehow convince themselves that we are the persecutors?

northerndragon,

I think that you are doing the right thing.  You have to move on with your life and you were honest to this women.   You deserve a lot of credit for that. 

You also deserve to be happy!

[northerndragon]

I am at this point regretting having said anything at all about this on these boards. I was set up to have a very good weekend this weekend, and unfortunately because of my OCD, spent most of the weekend with the fear-based rhetoric of potential manipulation, the veiled suggestion I am BPD (triangulating (read definition), splitting, etc), and other unfounded statements running over-and-over through my head, wrecking what should have been a much more enjoyable time.

Is anyone here a therapist? And even if so, are they my therapist? No. Meaning they do not have enough of the information necessary to make a diagnosis about myself and the situation, let alone plant doubts about a therapist I have a years-long professional relationship with, nor about the woman I went out with, whom they know nothing about at all, or to accuse me of splitting her (of all things)! It is absolutely rude to play at being an expert diagnostician and tear not only me apart, but others as well, based on a few select comments from one thread.

As to the "red flag": would anyone have preferred I went out with someone who said, as a response to "I'd rather not see you get hurt," something like "Then don't hurt me!" as a BPD would do? Instead, to me, it feels like a positive (an emotionally healthy woman who isn't relying on me to take care of her feelings for her) was turned into a negative, into someone I should (for no good reason) fear and worry about as a manipulator and user. And the "no good reason" is the important bit: she has done nothing so far to indicate she is using me or trying manipulating me, despite my spending a great deal of time looking for just that (having had a great deal of experience with it).

I am already in a place where I don't trust anyone because of what happened with my ex, when I started dating as part of a program of exposure therapy, to get me past where I was still at a month ago: shoving everyone in the world away and deciding that if my wife of fifteen years could betray me like that then everyone could simply burn because no one ever was worthy of one iota of trust, friendship, or care.

I managed to find out that wasn't true, and then that discovery was spit on, whatever the motivation for doing so.

The thing about "the right thing" is that what one person thinks is the right thing to do isn't necessarily what another person thinks the right thing is. It's easy to get judgmental and decide that there's only one REAL way a MATURE person should approach a situation and that anyone who doesn't do it that way is manipulative and wrong -- but real life doesn't actually work that way. There are often multiple healthy paths and reactions to a situation, as many as there are unhealthy.

Example: some people stay with their BPDs and it works out, others flee or move on from them. Both types here are told "you should move on, get out of that relationship, that's the healthy thing" as though doing so is the only possible healthy, reasonable response by any rational adult (this approach has been a frustration of mine with these boards in the past). Here I find that same "only one way" thought cropping up again.

I really don't mind being asked, ":)o you think you're doing the right thing?"

But I despise being told, "You're not doing the right thing."

I dislike even more when friends or family or the trusted professionals someone relies on for balance and help are flat-out called ignorant, wrong, manipulative, and so forth by someone who doesn't know them at all, based on limited information.

After all, if I am in such a fragile and vulnerable state, don't you think trying to ruin the trust-relationship between my therapist (etc) and myself -- driving a wedge of distrust into that by claiming they are ignorant or unprofessional -- would be something you would want to avoid at all costs?

In my opinion, there has been too much supposition, assumption, and armchair psychoanalysis in this thread based on a very few lines about things, despite my saying nothing much about the workings of the actual r/s or the details of her history or any real details of the conversations we've had. To jump to a conclusion that there's triangulation (read definition) and splitting and mirroring and manipulation occurring based on that?

It's OK to be nervous, it's OK to ask, ":)o you think this is happening?"

It is NOT ok to jump to conclusions, it is not OK to state, "THIS is clearly happening."

Elsewise, could I not say in return, "You guys are trying to set yourselves up as my saviors, and the people I know and trust as persecutors. You're trying to make me split them black for you. I don't know why you have this savior complex and this need to protect people from themselves, as though you know best. You should stop living in the savior part of the drama triangle and creating persecutors for others."

But I won't ask that or think it or say it because that's stretching a little bit into a lot, filling in a lot of blanks with things from your own head, assuming "Malice is always the default! Always!"

I have to know best for my own life. And this is best right now. People I trust to keep an eye on me and tell me when I'm off-course think it is, too, after extensive conversations about this with them, and on-going check-ins.

So I do thank you for your concern, but I am setting a boundary: that is enough.

I'm not rushing forward blindly and emotionally here. I've said a couple times that I've discussed all this with my therapist and my local support group (which is headed by a different therapist). So when I say extensively, I mean extensively... .and I appreciate the concern here, I do, but they also know the situation much better than a couple lines about it here can express. I've really thought about many of these things already, and talked with people about them for a long time before I did anything about it, or announced anything here. (And I'm hoping this time the preceding little piece of info gets through, because it is important.)

Just the one month... .I know. I'm mystified by that. But it took me only two minutes to change me from sad to suicidal when she left. And where I'm at now is the result of five months of working through what happened... .is there supposed to be some sort of standardized timeframe for "when you'll feel differently", some sort of graduated percentile scale of feelings? That seems implausible. That there's some point where everyone can say, "Yep, you're good enough now!"

Yes, I'm vulnerable. Yes, I'm wounded. Yes, I'm carrying baggage. But I think this the better choice because it is making me confront the wounds I was left with, rather than letting those wounds dictate my life and reality and choices: which isn't to say those wounds aren't there, but they aren't definitional of me as a person anymore, just a thing I have and have to deal with now.

I'm sure some people here will disagree and believe you can tell yourself you aren't a terrible, worthless person and have to do that on your own. I'm not one of them. I believe very strongly that social feedback is required for your brain and your self-image to be healthy, with the caveat that, yes, it starts with you wanting it to be so yourself... .but if it's just you saying it, then it's just narcissism.

Can someone else enjoy my presence? Am I capable of being attentive and fun? Do I have something to offer? I thought so (or hoped so). Let's test that theory. And, yay, it was all true! My ex was wrong! What she did to me and said to me really was unfair! And it answered the question: am I better enough that I can do this now? It helped me gauge my own progress towards healing.

Insanity is doing the same thing over-and-over and expecting different results. Clearly the "just taking time for myself" mantra wasn't producing (good) results for me, because it wasn't letting me confront and heal the wounds I'm carrying.

And I enjoy knowing someone who understands the situation, who treats me like an actual human being instead of a glorious savior or evil parent figure, who is fun to be with and with whom I can go out and enjoy activities with, and whom it feels OK to trust and be actually open with (after years of not being able to do so because of the unpredictable backlash).

Finally, I apologize if this offends or hurts any of you. That isn't the intent. This was a very difficult weekend to work through because of the earlier posts, and after thinking about whether or not I should respond, I thought it might help someone else to see my reaction and thoughts about the situation not just thread-wise but the big r/s-picture. If any mods thinks it steps over the line or on anyone's toes, please do what you need to.

[Buttercup555]

I am at this point regretting having said anything at all about this on these boards. I was set up to have a very good weekend this weekend, and unfortunately because of my OCD, spent most of the weekend with the fear-based rhetoric of potential manipulation, the veiled suggestion I am BPD (triangulating (read definition), splitting, etc), and other unfounded statements running over-and-over through my head, wrecking what should have been a much more enjoyable time.

Is anyone here a therapist? And even if so, are they my therapist? No. Meaning they do not have enough of the information necessary to make a diagnosis about myself and the situation, let alone plant doubts about a therapist I have a years-long professional relationship with, nor about the woman I went out with, whom they know nothing about at all, or to accuse me of splitting her (of all things)! It is absolutely rude to play at being an expert diagnostician and tear not only me apart, but others as well, based on a few select comments from one thread.

As to the "red flag": would anyone have preferred I went out with someone who said, as a response to "I'd rather not see you get hurt," something like "Then don't hurt me!" as a BPD would do? Instead, to me, it feels like a positive (an emotionally healthy woman who isn't relying on me to take care of her feelings for her) was turned into a negative, into someone I should (for no good reason) fear and worry about as a manipulator and user. And the "no good reason" is the important bit: she has done nothing so far to indicate she is using me or trying manipulating me, despite my spending a great deal of time looking for just that (having had a great deal of experience with it).

I am already in a place where I don't trust anyone because of what happened with my ex, when I started dating as part of a program of exposure therapy, to get me past where I was still at a month ago: shoving everyone in the world away and deciding that if my wife of fifteen years could betray me like that then everyone could simply burn because no one ever was worthy of one iota of trust, friendship, or care.

I managed to find out that wasn't true, and then that discovery was spit on, whatever the motivation for doing so.

The thing about "the right thing" is that what one person thinks is the right thing to do isn't necessarily what another person thinks the right thing is. It's easy to get judgmental and decide that there's only one REAL way a MATURE person should approach a situation and that anyone who doesn't do it that way is manipulative and wrong -- but real life doesn't actually work that way. There are often multiple healthy paths and reactions to a situation, as many as there are unhealthy.

Example: some people stay with their BPDs and it works out, others flee or move on from them. Both types here are told "you should move on, get out of that relationship, that's the healthy thing" as though doing so is the only possible healthy, reasonable response by any rational adult (this approach has been a frustration of mine with these boards in the past). Here I find that same "only one way" thought cropping up again.

I really don't mind being asked, ":)o you think you're doing the right thing?"

But I despise being told, "You're not doing the right thing."

I dislike even more when friends or family or the trusted professionals someone relies on for balance and help are flat-out called ignorant, wrong, manipulative, and so forth by someone who doesn't know them at all, based on limited information.

After all, if I am in such a fragile and vulnerable state, don't you think trying to ruin the trust-relationship between my therapist (etc) and myself -- driving a wedge of distrust into that by claiming they are ignorant or unprofessional -- would be something you would want to avoid at all costs?

In my opinion, there has been too much supposition, assumption, and armchair psychoanalysis in this thread based on a very few lines about things, despite my saying nothing much about the workings of the actual r/s or the details of her history or any real details of the conversations we've had. To jump to a conclusion that there's triangulation (read definition) and splitting and mirroring and manipulation occurring based on that?

It's OK to be nervous, it's OK to ask, ":)o you think this is happening?"

It is NOT ok to jump to conclusions, it is not OK to state, "THIS is clearly happening."

Elsewise, could I not say in return, "You guys are trying to set yourselves up as my saviors, and the people I know and trust as persecutors. You're trying to make me split them black for you. I don't know why you have this savior complex and this need to protect people from themselves, as though you know best. You should stop living in the savior part of the drama triangle and creating persecutors for others."

But I won't ask that or think it or say it because that's stretching a little bit into a lot, filling in a lot of blanks with things from your own head, assuming "Malice is always the default! Always!"

I have to know best for my own life. And this is best right now. People I trust to keep an eye on me and tell me when I'm off-course think it is, too, after extensive conversations about this with them, and on-going check-ins.

So I do thank you for your concern, but I am setting a boundary: that is enough.

I'm not rushing forward blindly and emotionally here. I've said a couple times that I've discussed all this with my therapist and my local support group (which is headed by a different therapist). So when I say extensively, I mean extensively... .and I appreciate the concern here, I do, but they also know the situation much better than a couple lines about it here can express. I've really thought about many of these things already, and talked with people about them for a long time before I did anything about it, or announced anything here. (And I'm hoping this time the preceding little piece of info gets through, because it is important.)

Just the one month... .I know. I'm mystified by that. But it took me only two minutes to change me from sad to suicidal when she left. And where I'm at now is the result of five months of working through what happened... .is there supposed to be some sort of standardized timeframe for "when you'll feel differently", some sort of graduated percentile scale of feelings? That seems implausible. That there's some point where everyone can say, "Yep, you're good enough now!"

Yes, I'm vulnerable. Yes, I'm wounded. Yes, I'm carrying baggage. But I think this the better choice because it is making me confront the wounds I was left with, rather than letting those wounds dictate my life and reality and choices: which isn't to say those wounds aren't there, but they aren't definitional of me as a person anymore, just a thing I have and have to deal with now.

I'm sure some people here will disagree and believe you can tell yourself you aren't a terrible, worthless person and have to do that on your own. I'm not one of them. I believe very strongly that social feedback is required for your brain and your self-image to be healthy, with the caveat that, yes, it starts with you wanting it to be so yourself... .but if it's just you saying it, then it's just narcissism.

Can someone else enjoy my presence? Am I capable of being attentive and fun? Do I have something to offer? I thought so (or hoped so). Let's test that theory. And, yay, it was all true! My ex was wrong! What she did to me and said to me really was unfair! And it answered the question: am I better enough that I can do this now? It helped me gauge my own progress towards healing.

Insanity is doing the same thing over-and-over and expecting different results. Clearly the "just taking time for myself" mantra wasn't producing (good) results for me, because it wasn't letting me confront and heal the wounds I'm carrying.

And I enjoy knowing someone who understands the situation, who treats me like an actual human being instead of a glorious savior or evil parent figure, who is fun to be with and with whom I can go out and enjoy activities with, and whom it feels OK to trust and be actually open with (after years of not being able to do so because of the unpredictable backlash).

Finally, I apologize if this offends or hurts any of you. That isn't the intent. This was a very difficult weekend to work through because of the earlier posts, and after thinking about whether or not I should respond, I thought it might help someone else to see my reaction and thoughts about the situation not just thread-wise but the big r/s-picture. If any mods thinks it steps over the line or on anyone's toes, please do what you need to.

I’m really glad you wrote all of this ND, because I agree with all you say above. I read some comments in response to your first post and was scratching my head in confusion. You had clearly thought things through, and where simply trying to do the best, for you, and the new person in your life, as best you could. I’m sorry that you felt let down, but rest assured you had me as backing. I felt ALL that you just said. Every bit of it. I really hope you had a good weekend. You deserve happiness. I too have experienced a sense of some views here splitting people/ideas black. I know you are trying to take a step forward. That is so so brave. And great news. Hugs to you.

[Im done]

It seems like you think I might be leading someone on, falsely promising or implying I was looking for a long-term commitment? I was clear on the site that in terms of dating I wasn't looking for anything long-term or serious, that I was looking to go out and have fun and make friends first. And I was clear with her about that as well, before we ever met or decided to go on a date. So I don't think there was any false advertising of my goodies on my part?

Some strong opinions on this thread.  ND, you have to be prepared for that when you post on here... .

I personally think that if you've made your intentions and situation clear to the person you're dating, there's nothing wrong with it.  There are different purposes to dating - not all dates are intended to or will lead to a long-term commitment.  Very often people are not looking for a "relationship", they are looking to get out and enjoy some adult company and do things and just have fun.  There's nothing wrong with this, as long as the other person is completely aware of and informed of your intentions, which seems to be the case here.

I'm all for making sure you are healed and over the previous relationship before you enter another committed or serious relationship.  But sometimes it is good to just get out and have fun with someone who appreciates you. 

Someone you can laugh with.  Can actually be very good for one's self-esteem, especially if it's been battered to nothing.  Focusing on something other than the situation with an exBPD can be a relief and help get rid of some of the ruminations.  Realizing there are other people in the world and that other relationships are possible in the future made me more optimistic about what life without my ex could be like.  Getting out there and making new friends can be part of the healing process.

[once removed]

nd,

i want to make clear im writing this in support, specifically, support of you being in charge of/making your own decisions. like i said before, you can't plan for everything life throws at you. you have clearly thought through this extensively and i think healthily. if i were to give your posts the fine comb treatment i don't see a lot of denial or holes.

i've had my own frustrations a few times. just try to remember, strong opinions or not, everyone (or atleast the overwhelming majority) want to help, and are very well intentioned, and have your best interests at heart. it is true they don't always know your situation intimately. it is true there is some black and white thinking. unfortunately that's also the case because things have a way of nearly always working as predicted. there ARE things worth considering. no, no one is in a position to badmouth your therapist with certainty. COULD she be a lousy therapist? sure. so many are. the suggestion, on its surface, COULD be a helpful one. i don't think anyone meant to prompt great fears of the trust issue. i think a lot of this was as a result of miscommunication. that can happen on a message board fairly easily. i made a post and ended up receiving advice and feedback that i wasn't even asking for, pertaining to other details. in retrospect, i made those details way too much the focus of my post.

i think it's healthy to consider (and i think you have) all advice whether its applicable or not. you clearly have your own misgivings, questions, uncertainties, etc. you've identified that you're fragile, not fully healed, etc. i certainly don't expect you to be. there are legtimate concerns to that dynamic. i would not caution you away from the decision you seem to have arrived at. mostly because i wouldn't presume to know it well enough, but again, the three parties involved (you, her, therapist) SEEM to have thought through things. does that NECESSARILY mean you've all come to the healthy conclusion? of course not. i know in my own posting when tulip lover made me rethink the "big girl" comment, it was because she made what i thought was a very legitimate point, or suggestion, not because i suddenly thought something must be wrong with the girl. as for all the triangle stuff, there is something to it, and i've seen it in my own behavior, my exes (plural exes) behavior, etc. i do not like to slap labels on it, but the point is that these toxic relationships have a profound influence in what sets us up for our future relationships. i don't think you're ignorant to that, im just reiterating it. it is not always obvious. i've dated four of them and am only now identifying my pattern of behavior. no, im not a savior or rescuer, but i've got thinking and behavior that needs tending to, atleast if i want a healthy, stable relationship. so sure. there does maybe "come a time". there is also, i believe, a real need to heal on our own. can you (you personally or you generically) "heal" in a new relationship at this point? i dont have any idea. i certainly can't. but none of us are ever perfect, either. we all always have things to work on. we can't be on our own forever, and we're not meant to be.

anyway, the choice(s) are yours, just try to take what is applicable, and remember everyone WANTS to help.

[northerndragon]

Buttercup, thank you again! (I loved and agreed with your earlier statement about how having to be healed before you can do anything is a bit unrealistic, or a Catch-22 at any rate.)

Victimnomore, yep, that's exactly it for me. Battered self-esteem, getting out as part of the healing process, finding other people that let you be optimistic and realistic about life without your BPD partner. Which is probably why I've made more progress in the last month than before that, though I definitely needed that time to try and work through what I was facing.

Thanks, lucky, and I get that everyone wants to help. That's why I've repeated my thanks to everyone for their concern, but had to set a boundary about it now for my own health. Like I said, I really don't mind being asked, ":)o you think you're doing the right thing?" But I despise being told, "You're not doing the right thing." There really is a big difference. Particularly when some things get cherry picked and others ignored, or when someone has asked and I've already responded one-way or another. Etc.

And, yes, there could very well be a legitimate concern about triangulation (read definition) or mirroring or bad therapy... .I take that seriously... .but I also don't think anyone here is in any position to flat-out psychoanalyze anyone else, which is something I think anyone on bpdfamily.com needs to be careful about avoiding giving the appearance of, no matter how strongly we may feel about our opinion of a situation or person.

[once removed]

yes, you have to remember the choice is ultimately yours, knowledgeable as anyone here is, they cannot intimately know your situation. your boundary is healthy. you do not sound in denial at all. i agree there's a huge difference. i try to watch what i say pretty carefully. for example, i dont like to go around offering false hope, but we're all very fragile. when people have said things to me, even in the MOST benign way, like "let her go", "move on", "detach", it can really trigger MY sensitive sense of abandonment and really screw up my mood. i dont expect anyone to know that, but it happens. so i can completely understand that a lot of this would go so far as to screw up your weekend. i don't like to influence a persons decision even if i think they're making the wrong one. i guess i just like to toss out things to think about on both sides primarily. i guess what im trying to say is yes, we all ought to be more mindful and not operate on "certainty", and that i have absolutely no idea whether you're making the right decision or not, but that its your decision, you've clearly thought through it responsibly, and whether you're making the right decision or not, i support your decision and your right to make it. not that you need my blessing you've got a good head on your shoulders. it's fragile, and confused, but it's a good one. 

[AlexDP]

Buttercup, thank you again! (I loved and agreed with your earlier statement about how having to be healed before you can do anything is a bit unrealistic, or a Catch-22 at any rate.)

Victimnomore, yep, that's exactly it for me. Battered self-esteem, getting out as part of the healing process, finding other people that let you be optimistic and realistic about life without your BPD partner. Which is probably why I've made more progress in the last month than before that, though I definitely needed that time to try and work through what I was facing.

Thanks, lucky, and I get that everyone wants to help. That's why I've repeated my thanks to everyone for their concern, but had to set a boundary about it now for my own health. Like I said, I really don't mind being asked, ":)o you think you're doing the right thing?" But I despise being told, "You're not doing the right thing." There really is a big difference. Particularly when some things get cherry picked and others ignored, or when someone has asked and I've already responded one-way or another. Etc.

And, yes, there could very well be a legitimate concern about triangulation (read definition) or mirroring or bad therapy... .I take that seriously... .but I also don't think anyone here is in any position to flat-out psychoanalyze anyone else, which is something I think anyone on bpdfamily.com needs to be careful about avoiding giving the appearance of, no matter how strongly we may feel about our opinion of a situation or person.

That is all very true and going out and meeting new people and learning to trust again is definitely a good thing. It's a good thing to see that there are people who are far better for you than your ex.

But while I agree with you when you say that we shouldn't psychoanalyze other posters just like that, I have to admit that I would not date someone who talks to me about her ex. At all really. I mean, if the topic of your ex is something you build your relationship on, how could it be a healthy relationship? I'm not saying this is what you do, but I do think it's something to consider.

[AlexDP]

I'm not condemning you by the way. In fact, I'm starting to like a girl I'm seeing myself. And I think she's starting to really really like me as well. My ex isn't a topic though, I can't remember ever having spoken about her. When asked I would tell her, but I never think about the ex when I'm around her.

[northerndragon]

We both have exes who were messed up in the head, and have kids from those relationships, so the subject is a bit unavoidable on both ends. If you don't have kids with someone, then I suppose it wouldn't be much of a topic necessarily. Not that I'm going to go into deep detail about the r/s here, just saying once nice aspect of it was having it with someone who was in a similar spot, understood, and wasn't having major issues with the baggage that gets left because they went through the same at one point; not that that was the whole and entire basis for the r/s.

[snappybrowneyes]

Reading this thread just points out how differently we all think. Personally, I prefer people to be upfront and mean what they say. One of the things everyone complains about here is they (pbd) should come with a warning label, if I only knew ahead of time the pbd had issues, etc.

I think by you explaining your situation ND, that puts the ball back in her court. I took the big girl statement that she is going in eyes wide open. Those without children do not realize how long you will be bound to the xpbd spouse even after divorce. I think being upfront about where you are at this point in life is the responsible thing to do. It would become a problem if all you ever talked about was the exes. I think we are always growing as a person and I love the quote: bloom where you are planted! Right now you are ahead of where you were, improving,that is the goal. Just my 2 cents.

[northerndragon]

Thank you, Snappy!