Something unexpected happened...

[northerndragon]

Something very strange and unexpected has happened... .

... .I've met someone.

I wasn't looking for it to happen or expecting it to, and didn't even think it was possible, honestly. I worry it is too soon, and kept trying to keep it from happening, and have been careful because I am so wounded from the relationship with my uxBPDw. But at the same time we simply clicked together so well and unexpectedly. I keep double-checking myself to make sure I'm not blindly throwing myself into something just because of hormones or emotions or a need to be loved. But my T thinks this is good for me and has encouraged me to pursue it.

And I will say it has been a strange and different experience than the relationship I had with my BPD ex. Completely different than what I was used to; I had no idea a relationship could actually be like this. I feel actually cared about without any effort on my part, like I'm actually a member of the relationship and not just along to take care of her, and not walking around on eggshells constantly worrying about what I should or shouldn't say or do (well, I still do that... .a bad habit learned over sixteen years is hard to break).

I worry, too, that it isn't better, really, and that a few months or years down the road it will all crumble and I'll be dropped back in hell. So I'm gun-shy about the entire situation, but my T has encouraged me to stop worrying about that so much, and simply enjoy and go with it. And I've talked with the woman I met about all this, too, and have been consistently surprised how supportive and understanding she has been about all of this... .garbage I'm left with and trying to deal with.

Interestingly: it turns out she went through the exact same thing I'm going through with my ex many years ago with her own ex, and knows exactly how I'm feeling and why. She has been extremely patient and caring despite all my insecurities and fears and worries and all the crappy baggage my ex left me with, because she gets it. And, frankly, it's nice. My relatives tried to understand, but didn't, and gave invalidating, terrible advice about how to deal with the situation. She doesn't. She's been there.

Though I do keep worrying about what happens when/if my ex shows up and decides she wants back into my life... .because my feelings for her are still unresolved, and probably will be for a long time, if ever. But I've committed myself finally to disengaging from her and just letting her destroy her own life as she will, and continuing to take care of the kids and protect them from it, while helping them heal from the emotional wounds she's left on them as best I can. But I still worry about how I would handle her deciding that she wants to come back--not that I see that happening right now or any time soon, so I shouldn't even be concerning myself with it. I think I'm at the point where I would say "No. It's just not happening. I don't know who you are, who it is you became over the last year, and what this person you became did to us was inexcusable. I love who you used to be, but you became someone I don't like."

[artman.1]

northerndragon,

     Don't even think about it!  NO!   Just enjoy your new girl and stop going back into HELL!

Once you are free, stay free.  You don't want back in prison, do you?  I have posted back to you before, about how dangerous it is to do what she is doing.  I hope you can realize the serious nature of her behavior.  My sister in law was with her groups and got AIDS.  That is a terminal disease, and is available through promiscuous behavior.  She has had it for almoast 30 years, and takes medicine that costs hundreds of dollars per dose.  She is in, and out of the hospital frequently with stuff you wouldn't want your worst enemy to have.  It is extremely hard on all of her family, and her daughter.  Each time she has to go in the hospital, it might be her last time.  Your W is messing around with fire.  You cannot possibly want that back, ever.

     Stay in there, and fight to get your life back.  Looks like you now have help...

Cheers, man,

      

[Annaleigh]

I would try to keep this as r/s lite and enjoy having a wonderful friend.  Does she get along well with the kiddos?  As wounded as we all are from the BPD blender, we need to guard our hearts a bit.  Not get into unhealthy triangles of victim/rescuer.  Just take it slow.

[northerndragon]

Thanks, Art. I still love her, but I'm coming to realize, or trying to realize the woman I love is not the woman she is now -- whomever she became. Regardless of all her other issues, the one I love wouldn't have done or been doing all the things she is doing now: wouldn't have cheated on me or abandoned her children or be screwing around with married men, regardless of her other problems. She's mutated into someone I don't recognize and wouldn't ever get involved with if I were meeting her now.

I have the first custody hearing coming up soon and in filling the paperwork out I had to try and keep the above in mind, and write down everything as accurately as possible, despite the hurt (and rage) it is going to cause (in her). I had to mention her emotional issues/instability, her disturbing friends and behaviors, her failure to contact the kids, her paradoxical claims, and so on, that she either denies or makes excuses for and so on. I felt dirty, like I was betraying her by saying all this -- and I know that's the FOG. Honestly, I feel afraid of what she might do when she reads that paperwork -- to herself or try to do to me. And I also know those statements are going to cause problems down-the-line with her, because she's just so volatile and unstable (in my opinion... .and, well, experience), but what else could I do?

It also helped me to go through with filing all those statements, and hang on to the conclusion she wasn't the same person anymore, that I found out recently from a couple of friends (F and C) she had told my good friend (A), who works with my kids, that I was planning on getting (A) fired... .except, SHE was the one planning on getting (A) fired, and had talked about wanting to do so in front of (F) and (C). So, thankfully, (F) and (C) set (A) straight, so (A) wasn't walking around thinking I was a backstabbing jerk. It was still incredibly frustrating and upsetting to find this out, because how could she do that to me and make that claim to (A)?

I'm trying to treat it like my actual wife died, and that this is just some crazy stranger I have to deal with. But it's still hard to do.

Annaleigh, we live a few hours apart, so we're rather forced to take it slow! The kids haven't met yet, but they've talked on the phone with her (their request) and they all like each other. We're all getting together soon so they can all meet her and her kids, and she and her kids can meet them. And, yes, still guarding my heart. Still lots of pain and worry and fear in there. Trying not to look at her as my rescuer (even though she is in some ways), don't want to build a relationship on that because that's no way to have a good relationship. Avoiding anything that looks like "I love you because you saved me from... .". But, yes, still scared and worried that might pop up on either side. Trying to look at it in terms of shared interests, compatible personality traits, and whether or not we both do little things that say "I care".

It's difficult going for me because I worry so much about falling into another romantic trap, about what happens a year down the road or five or ten because of what happened with the ex, and all the emotional/reactionary baggage I've been left with from her. So it is probably a good thing we don't live closer and can't rush into anything, and have to talk through all these things instead.

[Annaleigh]

I'm really happy for you that you've met somebody you enjoy spending time with together.    Do you mind me asking how you met?  I'm just wondering how people meet anymore!

I've read that pwBPD say awful things about us, not to be mean or vindictive, but to garner sympathetic support.  If saying Obama is a dunderhead gets me a chocolate bar, I'll do it.  It's not personal towards you, even though it feels like it.     You've got to be honest to protect the kiddos.  :'(  I understand how tough that probably feels, it goes against our grain as peacemakers.  Stay strong!

[Auspicious]

Though I do keep worrying about what happens when/if my ex shows up and decides she wants back into my life... .because my feelings for her are still unresolved, and probably will be for a long time, if ever.  {... .} But I still worry about how I would handle her deciding that she wants to come back--not that I see that happening right now or any time soon, so I shouldn't even be concerning myself with it. I think I'm at the point where I would say "No.

This part worries me a bit. Is this fair to the new person? And are you in a healthy place to start something new, yet? (Just some questions)

[northerndragon]

This part worries me a bit. Is this fair to the new person? And are you in a healthy place to start something new, yet? (Just some questions)

That worries me, too, quite a bit. So much so I took a leap of faith -- a leap because before trying to talk about my feelings with my ex was always a proposition that often led to being emotionally wounded (ie: blamed, ignored, guilted) -- and talked openly with the woman about this early on, asking how fair is it to her for me to still feel this way and to have a relationship with her.

To her credit (and to my relief), she hasn't run screaming, and said she understands, having been through the same thing herself. Her response was basically "shut up and don't worry about it, I'm a big girl". Which is a refreshing change from constantly having to worry about and take care of my partner's emotional state -- I'd be double-guessing the heck out of that if this were my ex, wondering what she was hiding and not wanting to say, when she would blow up in my face about it... .well, I still am (habits created over more than a decade are difficult to break), but know I shouldn't be and tell myself she isn't her when I catch myself doing that.

At the same time, I realized that the fact I don't know what to do if my ex shows up tells me I'm at least as angry with my ex as I am still in love with her. It tells me there would be serious problems in my ability to handle taking her back after everything she put me through, because there are many days when I am so angry I never want to see her again, and I simply don't trust her and don't know I ever really could again after this. Knowing those things, despite not knowing how I'd react if she wanted to come back, I am forced to ask how I could honestly rebuild a healthy romantic relationship with her under those circumstances?

So, am I in a healthy place to start something new? I don't know. I ask myself that all the time. But at some point I guess the only way to tell is for you to dive in and see if you are.

[northerndragon]

I'm really happy for you that you've met somebody you enjoy spending time with together.    Do you mind me asking how you met?  I'm just wondering how people meet anymore!

As strange as it might sound: on-line, through one of those dating service/people meeting sites. I was looking to make some new friends, just to feel like a human being again, get out of the house, and so on, and we happened to hit it off. Spent a couple weeks chatting, then decided to meet one another and had an exceptionally good time together when we did. The most enjoyable time I've had in ages.

I've read that pwBPD say awful things about us, not to be mean or vindictive, but to garner sympathetic support.  If saying Obama is a dunderhead gets me a chocolate bar, I'll do it.  It's not personal towards you, even though it feels like it.     You've got to be honest to protect the kiddos.  :'(  I understand how tough that probably feels, it goes against our grain as peacemakers.  Stay strong!

I've heard that as well, and I don't doubt it. But there's really no difference in the effect on me, regardless of the why. If someone shoots me, it really doesn't matter why. Someone shot me! Same thing here, she may be doing it because it gets her sympathy and attention and makes her feel momentarily safe and fulfilled, but that doesn't stop it from hurting me deeply.

[LW1968]

Wow.

All those posts about your wife & you're on an online dating service?  Seriously? 

When did you sign the divorce paperwork & finalize everything?

[Annaleigh]

The devastation that ND has gone through recently, having a friend is a blessing.  This is hard stuff, no 'right' way, it's taking care of us as best we can.   

[LW1968]

So you'd be fine with finding out that your husband's on an online dating site and has found a "friend" through it during your separation because he's taking care of himself the best way that he can?

[northerndragon]

All those posts about your wife & you're on an online dating service?  Seriously? 

When did you sign the divorce paperwork & finalize everything?

I've mentioned this before, but it was probably lost in everything else: the ex and I were never legally married. There's no divorce paperwork to sign. We were simply together for a over a decade-and-a-half as husband-and-wife and (supposedly) committed to each other. But I'm not sure why, even if we had been "married" in the piece-of-paper-filed-with-the-State sense, it would matter?

In the past year my ex has had full-blown emotional-and-physical relationships that I know of with three men (all married), and (at least) one of those went on for six months before she left me. That doesn't include whomever she's been letting "use" her now as part of this screwed up cult she's in, making at least two more "relationships" that I know about.

And that doesn't include the women she's had relationships with, either, as part of the dynamic of this group she's with -- two that I'm now aware of, both of whom she was involved with while we were together, though I don't know to what extent at that time (but have some pretty good ideas about... .still just supposition), and there's one other I suspect. At least one of those was a relationship between her, the woman and the woman's boyfriend (who is married to someone else).

Nor does it include the woman I found out she was pining-after for a year while we were together, and it doesn't include the on-line relationships she was secretly having with two or three other men for a few months around when she met this group and started the affair last year.

And these are only the things I've managed to find out about! I don't know if there's more... .

Which is why I now run back through our entire history together and wonder what else was going on all those years... .if there were things happening I just didn't realize, if she was able to keep quiet enough and there was no paper trail for those. Like the times she would spend the night at her friend's house for a girl's night out, and so on... .was something going on there? I want to believe this is recent behavior because of this group she got involved with, but now I just don't know... .

So, I'm sorry, LW, but what exactly are you trying to say? Was what I did so horrible and worthy of a "wow... .seriously"?

I feel guilty enough about having done so -- like I'm somehow "cheating" on a relationship that doesn't even exist to her anymore -- without someone calling me a hypocrite or bad person or cheater or whatever you are implying I am doing here, or whatever failing you are seeing in me?

You're chastising me for joining an on-line social networking service after she had been gone for over four months, and after almost a year of being treated like an annoyance or like I had the plague by her -- for doing something so that I could feel like I was maybe a human being again and not a disposable doormat?

It isn't as though my wife and I were in a "separation" and thinking about divorce because of her behavioral issues or confusion about what she wanted; she cheated on me at least once, and then abandoned our relationship and her children to join a disturbed cult, has had a half-dozen or so relationships herself including secret ones when we were together, and has expressed absolutely zero desire to ever come back to her life or to me. If I wasn't calling her for the kids they wouldn't even hear from her because we have apparently ceased to exist in her world as an item of any real importance.

So how long "should" I have waited? What "should" I have done instead?

It's been nearly six months now since she walked out saying she didn't love me and didn't want to be a wife or mother.

Would it be better if I went back to wallowing in self-pity and bawling myself to sleep every night hoping that she'll see the light today and come home? Back to putting my entire life on hold waiting for her, hoping tomorrow I will be allowed to feel better, that she will want anything to do with her family again? Letting her continue to control everything even now that she isn't even here?

And should I forget all about the other men (and women) and the cheating and her casually ripping my heart out and hurting the kids because her instability and chaotic needs took precedence over everyone and everything else? How could I meet another human being, and not sit at home patiently waiting for her to finish having sex with every man and woman she wants to before (if ever) deciding her kids and husband are actually worth something afterall, and I just take her right back in like nothing happened and it was all entirely OK?

And how healthy would that be for me or the kids (or even for her, I suppose)?

Even saying it all out loud like that, and rationally horrified by the idea that I should have any attachment to her still or ever even considered taking her back, I am still horribly confused and guilty about moving on. I suspect that is the FOG. That she counted on me reacting that way, so she can go do whatever she wants without caring about the effects of it, destroy our lives and still be able to come back when she tires of her "new life", without any real consequences. Be her backup plan.

Is it wrong that something more than friendship happened unexpectedly with someone I met... .and happened when I'm clearly not in a relationship anymore, just clinging to the ghost of one?

It's not that I can't see where you're coming from, but I don't think your response is fair in this instance.

I wanted to meet new people. I wasn't looking for a long-term relationship, or even a relationship (and no, not sex either, which I wasn't looking for at all), I was looking to get out of my house and meet new people before I finished going insane being stuck inside the house I bought for her, with our kids, in the city she wanted to live in, waiting for her to come back, knowing she was off screwing other guys and otherwise "servicing" them, because somehow I wasn't "good" enough after a decade-and-a-half of sacrificing everything for her, and suddenly her kids were just an impediment to her happiness.

I was trying to put the pieces of my life back together, be an adult with friends and interests and some kind of social life -- something that had been denied me since I met her because if I ever left the house without her I was made to feel guilty for it, even if the words "go on and get out of the house" were uttered in completely accepting sincerity (because later my leaving would be used to guilt me and attack me, because she wasn't going out anywhere; and it would be about how I got to go out and she didn't because she didn't have anyone to go out with -- having chosen to wreck those relationships -- which was somehow my fault and my going out was abandoning her at home and being a jerk to her, etc).

I don't think I should feel guilty.

Nor does my T, despite my whining about feeling that way. She actually encouraged me to pursue this, regardless of my own reservations and guilty feelings. Told me to stop worrying, that my ex sure wasn't worrying about me or our "relationship"... .because at that point "what relationship?"

Gone for six months, had an affair, having multiple relationships on her end... .

... .why am I the bad guy for going on a date?

I do understand why you might react the way you did, and would even agree with you if all this other stuff hadn't been going on with her, but are you sure yours was an entirely appropriate reaction in this case? (Curious: even if we had been "legally" married and still were so? I'm not sure what a broken promise on a piece of paper would change. She would still be gone and cheating and I would still be alone and abandoned, no matter what the State has on record for tax purposes at that moment. I don't think that would make it a sin to start dating in this circumstance. Do you feel differently?)

Anyways, while I don't really appreciate the take, thank you for speaking up because it's still helping me work through this, to think about everything in perspective and so start taking control of my life back. It's made me examine and put into words things I hadn't yet, that I was just feeling, or knew but trying not to look too closely at.

[LW1968]

Because for several weeks your posts gave me the impression that you wanted your ex to change so that you could have her back in the relationship.  Switching gears so suddenly appears to me to be revenge for what she did to you and not pursuing a new relationship because you're ready for it.  In fact, the first few paragraphs of your answer is regarding all the times your ex stepped outside of your relationship, as if it's justification for what you are doing now.

It's one thing to foster an already existing friendship into more of a relationship, but something totally different to join an online dating service.  It's the difference between stumbling over something & going to the store to look for it, see what I mean?

You even said that you're still feeling guilty and confused about moving on.  If you can't acknowledge that in that state, it's REALLY false advertising to be putting your goodies out there on a dating site, well then... .god help the woman you're dating right now.

In no way would I advocate sitting around pining for what's lost.  But I also don't think you're yet in a place where a new relationship is the best solution.  It smacks of what those with BPD do sometimes... .running from one person to another to ease pain before confronting what's going on internally first.

[tuliplover]

I agree. ND, we've all been there... .but there is an innocent bystander who potentially could be greatly impacted by your choices right now. I'd really think twice about getting into something with someone else. Especially someone you met on-line.

[Annaleigh]

We are only human, ND's SO has been gone for some months.  We get lonely, having a friend can be a blessing when we are dealing with such a hard situation.

Since I am married and I'm seeing my H, I wouldn't bother with dating.  I find friendship here, in bible study and celebrate recovery.  If me and H were NC, I would seriously consider dating.

The BPD blender puts a serious hurt on our self esteem.  Dating people without the baggage isn't a bad thing for our recovery.

There's dating for friendship.  There's dating for potential partners.  There's dating to just get out of the house.

Dating doesn't have to be serious commitment.  ND has already said, he is taking it slow.  The man deserves some happiness and if he finds it with this new friend, I don't see anything wrong with it.

[just_think]

Same thing is happening with me. 

I don't know her that well yet, but I think she is a non as well.  I'm picking up on the vibes in any case.  It's so refreshing to have a normal conversation and not worry about her freaking out :D

[Auspicious]

I'd just point out that this logic is the same logic, no matter who uses it (BPD or non).

"You treat me terribly, I deserve to be happy, it's so nice to be with someone who doesn't treat me the way you do, etc."

When the pwBPD does it, we read about it here on bpdfamily.com, with outrage.

[OnceConfused]

Northerndragon:

How do you empty your cup of stagnant and festered water? - By pouring in new fresh water.

This new r/s is exactly that fresh water for you. Slowly and with time, the fresh water will completely replace the old water. As human being, we hate to be in the state of the unknown. We dont' want our equilibrium to be upset. But just like the ripples on the lake from a rock, with time the ripples will die quietly and the lake will return to its mirror like state of peace.

Don't be afraid of the future and what is coming, my friend. Welcome it for it will make your life now and later a much more enjoyable journey.

Whenever you think of past and the potentiality of your x waltzing back into your life, go through your checklist of why you both had left in the first place? You can get back together but the r/s will never be the same, my friend, for so much pain and hurt had carved a permanent scar on both. Would it be better to start afresh and take what you learn in the previous r/s so that you can make the next one a much more beautiful one?

Take your time to explore life with this new friend. DOn't bother to look back too much on the road behind because you might not see the pot hole ahead and fall into it.

I learned so much from my short time w xBPDgf, and have applied many of what I learned into my marriage now. I am having such a great time now with my new bride. So will you, my friend.

[Annaleigh]

I'd just point out that this logic is the same logic, no matter who uses it (BPD or non).

"You treat me terribly, I deserve to be happy, it's so nice to be with someone who doesn't treat me the way you do, etc."

When the pwBPD does it, we read about it here on bpdfamily.com, with outrage.

Difference is... .they are delusional about how they are "abused" by us.   

Proud of you ND, for getting back up, for being there for your kiddos, for not letting this destroy you.

God bless.   

[OTH]

 

Great post.

I am feeling good about my own future right now. Life is wonderful again. I'm moving on finally.

Northerndragon:

How do you empty your cup of stagnant and festered water? - By pouring in new fresh water.

This new r/s is exactly that fresh water for you. Slowly and with time, the fresh water will completely replace the old water. As human being, we hate to be in the state of the unknown. We dont' want our equilibrium to be upset. But just like the ripples on the lake from a rock, with time the ripples will die quietly and the lake will return to its mirror like state of peace.

Don't be afraid of the future and what is coming, my friend. Welcome it for it will make your life now and later a much more enjoyable journey.

Whenever you think of past and the potentiality of your x waltzing back into your life, go through your checklist of why you both had left in the first place? You can get back together but the r/s will never be the same, my friend, for so much pain and hurt had carved a permanent scar on both. Would it be better to start afresh and take what you learn in the previous r/s so that you can make the next one a much more beautiful one?

Take your time to explore life with this new friend. DOn't bother to look back too much on the road behind because you might not see the pot hole ahead and fall into it.

I learned so much from my short time w xBPDgf, and have applied many of what I learned into my marriage now. I am having such a great time now with my new bride. So will you, my friend.

[Marcie]

YAY!

[devastated1]

I've read that pwBPD say awful things about us, not to be mean or vindictive, but to garner sympathetic support.

If anyone, not just Annaleigh, can answer this.  How is that not just a mean person?  Why do we just say that they are ill?  Can you be ill and mean too?  If they are betraying confidences, repeating things out of context, etc to make you look bad, even if it is for their own sympathetic support, isnt that just mean behavior?

Thanks

[Buttercup555]

Good for you! I'm pleased and hapy that you have found the strength to move forward a little. As others say, there is dating for all kinds of reasons, and as you have shared your experience with the new lady in your life, if she has had a similar experience then she is with you eyes wide open.

In my mind, if the general consensus is that we are completely robbed of closure with a relationship with someone with BPD, then HOW are we supposed to date anyone else ever? Because if we never get closure, how CAN we be ready to date again? Therefore we are stuck dating a new person, with feelings for the exBPD still lingering, OR never dating again. And living, alone, crucified daily by the cruel lack of  closure.

Personally I don't think many of us nons have much choice. We either have to dip our toei into the dating world again, knowing full well we have unresolved issues re: the exBPD, or forver remain a social dating outcast. Alone.

Rock. Hard place.

I simply admire you for trying to move on with your life. And I feel awfully sorry that you had to experience something so painful in the first place. Hopefully your new love interest will not get hurt in the process. But as long as you are honest, that is all that can be asked of someone.Good luck!

[northerndragon]

I'd just point out that this logic is the same logic, no matter who uses it (BPD or non).

"You treat me terribly, I deserve to be happy, it's so nice to be with someone who doesn't treat me the way you do, etc."

When the pwBPD does it, we read about it here on bpdfamily.com, with outrage.

Auspicious, that's an interesting observation.

I have seen plenty of "Get out of there, now! You shouldn't be with someone who treats you like that!" advice on these boards regularly, from non-to-non. So what's the difference? I think because there are significant differences in the context the logic is used in: in cases I see here, the BPD partner's perspective about how they are being treated (or are treating the other person) is skewed and often delusional -- they actually are destroying the relationship and often even hurting the other person (while claiming they are the ones being abused).

There are plenty of good examples of the use of that logic, because there are people who should leave relationships precisely because the other partner treats them terribly -- anyone being abused by their spouse should get the heck out of their relationship and really should be with someone who doesn't treat them that way! So it's not bad logic, but it can be abused and used to rationalize hurtful behavior, which is what our BPD's do.

[OTH]

I've read that pwBPD say awful things about us, not to be mean or vindictive, but to garner sympathetic support.

If anyone, not just Annaleigh, can answer this.  How is that not just a mean person?  Why do we just say that they are ill?  Can you be ill and mean too?  If they are betraying confidences, repeating things out of context, etc to make you look bad, even if it is for their own sympathetic support, isnt that just mean behavior?

Thanks

yes... .They can be mean and are mean. Not a doubt about it. They are also mentally ill. This is where you can recognize that they are mean and cruel and do not make good r/s partners and walk away. You can overcome your anger for them by recognizing that their actions are dominated by their disordered thoughts. You can depersonalize their treatment of you because it was never about you. It was and will be anybody that gets involved with them. It is a repeating pattern. That is how you know it is a disorder. The woe is me act and talking bad about you to others brings them sympathy and rescuers so they don't have to feel bad about the breakup. This makes her the victim, you the persecutor, and the people she is saying bad things to... .The rescuers. This is the Karpman drama triangle.

www.therapyideas.net/triangles.htm

[once removed]

devastated,

because, partially, while they do have a sense of right or wrong, its no longer about that. it's about disordered thought. it's about means to ends. it's about validation. perception. justification. being a victim.

[northerndragon]

Because for several weeks your posts gave me the impression that you wanted your ex to change so that you could have her back in the relationship.

I did. But something changed over the course this past month, and now I'm not so sure. Coming to terms with it? Disengagement? I don't know... .

Almost zero contact from her. My choosing not to take responsibility for her bills anymore. Serving the custody paperwork. Moving her stuff out of the bedroom because looking at it kept hurting too much. The kids finally opening up about how much they hurt and how she wasn't a good mom to them. Her failing to even show up for the custody hearing... .Maybe it all added up and gave my brain the kick-over it needed to start that process and start doing what I've rationally known all along but couldn't accept or deal with emotionally until it had.

In fact, the first few paragraphs of your answer is regarding all the times your ex stepped outside of your relationship, as if it's justification for what you are doing now.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to read like that. You seemed very upset given there was no divorce. To me it seemed like you considered it cheating and couldn't understand how I could do so. I was trying to ask in return "How is this cheating in these circumstances? Can you cheat on a relationship that only exists anymore in your own head?" and "Is this really comprable to Analeigh's situation with her H?"

Did I misread your reaction?

You even said that you're still feeling guilty and confused about moving on.  If you can't acknowledge that in that state, it's REALLY false advertising to be putting your goodies out there on a dating site, well then... .god help the woman you're dating right now.

Again, I am confused. I thought I did just acknowledge that... ? (Or am I missing your meaning, LW?)

It seems like you think I might be leading someone on, falsely promising or implying I was looking for a long-term commitment? I was clear on the site that in terms of dating I wasn't looking for anything long-term or serious, that I was looking to go out and have fun and make friends first. And I was clear with her about that as well, before we ever met or decided to go on a date. So I don't think there was any false advertising of my goodies on my part?

She and I have talked about all this, too: my history, my confusion, my feelings for my ex, and so forth. And she has expressed she understands and is OK with it. My therapist and I have discussed it extensively as well, and she has encouraged me to get over feeling guilty -- because there isn't anything to be guilty about, and the guilt is just a manifestation of existing anxiety issues that I have to come to terms with regardless and stop letting control me.

Really: I went on a date, I didn't try to bring a wife over from China. And yes, much more happened emotionally than I suspected ever could again. And, yes again, that's confusing (and surprising), but I think this woman and I are approaching everything sensibly and maturely. (And, frankly, being able to talk to someone who isn't going to flip their nut at the drop of a hat is refreshing, and if anyone here doesn't like that... .well, ppphhhhhtttttbbbll to them! :D )

As to feeling guilt and confusion: you and I should both know from the experience of being put through the wringer of guilt by our BPDs many times that just because you feel guilty doesn't mean you are. I feel guilty, yes, but rationally what is it I should feel guilty for or about? I'm feeling guilty for "cheating" on a relationship that doesn't exist anymore, that I want but am not going to get and can do nothing to make happen. And it's confusing because we were together for sixteen years... .I don't know how anything post-relationship in those circumstances could not be confusing, even without the BPD thrown in!

I do have to say I felt personally attacked when you said "god help the woman" -- it makes me think you are calling me a selfish/dangerous predatory goon, which I don't think is fair if you were. But I don't know that was your intent, and I understand and appreciate your concern for her. Maybe what she says to me when I get all concerned about hurting her somehow will help reassure you, too: "Honey, I'm a big girl."

In no way would I advocate sitting around pining for what's lost.  But I also don't think you're yet in a place where a new relationship is the best solution.  It smacks of what those with BPD do sometimes... .running from one person to another to ease pain before confronting what's going on internally first.

I totally agree. That's why I talked with my therapist and local support group about it extensively before I went ahead and did anything, and have continued to do so, because I didn't want to fall into the trap of "I need this to save me and give me happiness! You are saving me!" or do something I really wasn't ready for.

You also said something else that strikes me, about a relationship being a solution. No one is ever in a place where a new relationship is a solution. Or at least a relationship shouldn't be a solution. I think, importantly, I'm not looking for one to be this time -- when I met my ex, I was looking for it to be that. The way I'm approaching this one, and relationships in general now, is very different from the "OMG, I HAVE TO HAVE a relationship. I NEED to be with someone." that was the way I felt about relationships before, that having one would fix everything. And I ended up with my BPD-ex.

[once removed]

i like that "honey im a big girl" thing she keeps saying. that's confidence. it's certainly NOT BPD. it's not a   its a 

[once removed]

northerndragon,

we can't always help when a good thing comes into our life. it does kind of fly in the face of most of the advice on these boards. normally i'd advise you against it. but i do think you and your partner are handling it very maturely, and very well.

[2010]

Trying not to look at her as my rescuer (even though she is in some ways)

And you are still married and feeling persecuted and victimized? Why does your therapist think that triangulation (read definition) with another woman is a good idea at this point? Especially one that mirrors and agrees with everything you say and helps you split black your persecutor as a shared trauma experience?

To have a therapist encourage you in this regard is further diluting the opportunity for personal growth that comes out of the solitude of the self.  You need to heal and prepare for divorce without adding on additional personalities that may enable you to use them as personal crutches (and they to use you to feel better about themselves.) True recovery doesn't rely on other people to temporarily fill your cup- it only distracts you from the task at hand.

You are right to worry about your unfinished business with your Wife.  It's not going to go away until you resolve the conflict with divorce, heal yourself and then be alone and be OK with yourself before you begin dating again. Otherwise this is going to be a long drama triangle that replaces your personal responsibility with your reactions to the actions of three people; not two. One rescuing (controlling) woman brought into play against all odds of failing her mission ensures your suffering. Ask your therapist about Steven Karpmann and his drama triangle. If the therapist hasn't a clue- seek new counsel.