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Author Topic: What facet of BPD has been the hardest to understand?  (Read 14022 times)
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« on: September 07, 2011, 10:01:01 AM »

I remember when I first came here; I was almost obsessed with learning everything that I could about the disorder itself.  For me, it helped to depersonalize what was being done - let's face it; there is nothing easy once the wheels fall off the BPD bus.

The 10 false beliefs helped me a lot - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm - as a matter of fact, I printed it and read it daily.

One of the concepts that really stumped me was object constancy - I honestly had a hard time understanding how someone could literally, "forget" the words, the emotions,  etc when I was not around.   Since I travel quite a bit with my job, this disorder fact was central to triggering the bad BPD behaviors.  To grasp this & depersonalize, I had to think of ex as literally an emotional 2 year old - I don't my 2 year old neighbor to remember he "loved me" last week when playing, but won't come to give me a hug this week.  I realize he is just being a 2 year old.

I finally got to the point where I just accepted it as fact - which helped me free some of the pain around the breakup.  I think acceptance of certain facts even if I didn't totally understand them, helped give me closure.

What BPD facts - either criteria or coping method - has been hard for you to understand? 
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 10:03:44 AM »

The hardest thing for me to wrap my brain around was how someone who was so loving, could be capable of such cruelty.

turtle

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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 10:05:47 AM »

The hardest thing for me to wrap my brain around was how someone who was so loving, could be capable of such cruelty.

turtle

good comment - where do you think this behavior ties to the disorder itself?

perhaps, the black/white thinking - idealization one day and as soon as you are "human" it bounces to the other extreme?
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 10:09:34 AM »

Think the lack of affective memory was hard for me too. It just doesn't compute, which is why I have read a ton of stuff about early object relations. I needed to get this into my head--over and over again. It is very hard for us because we have got past what essentially was a preverbal developmental stage. Given that it is preverbal (they were infants when the damage started) and we were infants when we went through the dyadic stage and then the separation individuation stage--we can't remember this! It is part of the structure of our personalities. Yes, hard to wrap the old head around.

It helped me to see them as 3 years or less in an adult body too... .with adult capacities for intellectual twisting. Also difficult for me to understand splitting--very hard to become an evil, vile person at the drop of a hat. That was so painful because I hadn't done anything to deserve it. That eroded my trust and then finally destroyed it utterly because I got painted black whenever a new love interest was on his mind. Coping by replacing me was devastating. :'(

The ten false beliefs helped: had to read them over and over and over! Being cool (click to insert in post)

Diotima
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 10:14:53 AM »

The hardest thing for me to wrap my brain around was how someone who was so loving, could be capable of such cruelty.

turtle

good comment - where do you think this behavior ties to the disorder itself?

perhaps, the black/white thinking - idealization one day and as soon as you are "human" it bounces to the other extreme?

I'm not sure how it ties to the disorder. When I first discovered BPD, I poured hours of my life into trying to understand. I've given up trying to figure out the disorder - it wears me out.  And... .there are so many people who are not "just" BPD (not to minimize BPD at all.)   Eventually, I just came away trying to save myself and not worrying about him or what PD du jour he had.

In a rare moment of clarity - after crazyx ripped my shirt off in a fit of rage , I said "I just don't understand how you can be so loving one minute and so cruel the next!"  His reply:

"I want to make sure I hurt you before you hurt me." 

This was before I had any clue what I was dealing with.  I had nothing to say.  And even now... .all these years later... .I would have nothing to say.  Not sure how it ties to ANY PD, but it's messed up enough to know it's not for me.

turtle

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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 10:45:25 AM »

The lack of core self. We can all doubt who we are and what we want out of life at times, but the fact that people with BPD have a void, an empty shell, where other people have an identity could be a plot element straight out of a horror movie for me. I find it extremely frightening and difficult to imagine what it must feel like.
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 10:56:43 AM »

So I saw this title and wanted to reply ~ even though this board isn't usually where I hang out. Smiling (click to insert in post)

I definitely struggled/struggle with tying some of the tough behavior to the disorder.

The pwBPD in my life suffers from a low self worth but masks it with a sense of entitlement and power. She also has a complete lack of boundaries. So it's not unusual for her to act inappropriately in any given setting. (I've bolded up the two "facts" that I struggle with the most)

If I look at the facts of the disorder, the emotional immaturity, I can definitely see her as an emotionally tired two year old who thinks that she should get whatever she wants, and when she doesn't get what she wants, she can definitely throw a tantrum. She ties her worth to what people are willing to do for her.  So by outward appearances, she comes across as someone who is extremely self-centered and selfish, when in reality I believe that it's paradigm of the disorder in that I don't think she truly believes she deserves anything at all.    

So, when she goes shopping for two hundred dollars worth of makeup last week, to fill that unfillable void inside her, and tells her daughters (my stepdaughters) that she can't afford their lunches this week ~ then instructs them to tell their dad (my husband) that he needs to give them lunch money... .I can't help but feel frustrated.  It's the result  of excessive spending (the makeup), lack of boundaries (go tell your dad), and the sense of entitlement (dad should pay) that all stems from that broken part of her that can only be fixed by her... .

~DG
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 11:07:03 AM »

So, when she goes shopping for two hundred dollars worth of makeup last week, to fill that unfillable void inside her, and tells her daughters (my stepdaughters) that she can't afford their lunches this week ~ then instructs them to tell their dad (my husband) that he needs to give them lunch money... .I can't help but feel frustrated.  It's the result  of excessive spending (the makeup), lack of boundaries (go tell your dad), and the sense of entitlement (dad should pay) that all stems from that broken part of her that can only be fixed by her... .

~DG

I guess this is another FACT that I really struggled with.  How they don't see that their lives are in shambles and that it's their own behaviors that are so flagrant and "off" - causing constant chaos and devastation.  How they refuse to get help or even admit that they need help.  Crazyx is intelligent -- so it seems to me (peon that I am) that he should have been able to recognize that he was his own worst enemy. Soo frustrating.

turtle

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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 11:07:43 AM »

4) Belief that love can prevail

I stayed in the marriage so long since I thought we could get through it and be better for it.  Once it fell apart, I started wondering why I wasn't enough for her.  I should have done X and then she wouldn't have cheated.  If I hadn't done Y she would know that I loved her and she would have loved me back.

After we decided to split we had a series of heart to heart conversations about our relationship.  I opened up about some things that I felt we didn't have.  She looked at me with a sad face and say, "Why didn't you tell me? It would have made a difference!" My first reaction was, man I screwed up the r/s because I couldn't be open with her about my needs and what we needed for us to work.

That conversation was just over 4 months ago.  I realize now that no matter what I had done, it would not have worked because she was not interested in making it work.  And the comment she made?  It was deflect blame/responsibility off herself to me.

I still believe that "love can prevail" but it has to be coming from both sides and it never was in our r/s.
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 11:10:21 AM »

I guess this is another FACT that I really struggled with.  How they don't see that their lives are in shambles and that it's their own behaviors that are so flagrant and "off" - causing constant chaos and devastation.  How they refuse to get help or even admit that they need help.  Crazyx is intelligent -- so it seems to me (peon that I am) that he should have been able to recognize that he was his own worst enemy. Soo frustrating.

My exBPDw would have glimpses of it.  Sometimes when she actually would admit she had an issue, we would talk about it and she would say, "I don't think I can ever get better from this."  I would assure her that she could and that she needed to keep working at it in T.   But the next day she would have forgotten about the conversation and gone back to just trying to cope with herself.
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 11:12:43 AM »

The ability to make something wrong when everything is right.  When I was happy with him and things were going well he would suddenly think I didn't love him.  He would suddenly be mad and we would have to talk about this "problem" and resolve it or I didn't care about him.  Resolving the fact that you are distant from him and dont love him are really hard to do when it isn't true and when you try to assure him of your love and he doesn't believe you.  Sigh.  Time for fawning and crying and sadness and assuring and feeling more and more horrible all the while.  If you leave the conversation or room then he would escalate and the kids would have to hear the banging and punching holes in the walls and throwing things.  So I usually came back and lived through his torment unless I just took the kids and left the house and turned off my cell phone.  When he was in the troughs of the emotional waves and could only look at all the other troughs.  He couldn't see up to any of the good peaks in the relationship at all when he was like that.  Hmm... .don't know... .that may have been more then one thing all stuck together.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  Hard to pick out just one thing cause they all run together.
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 11:14:08 AM »

The fact that I had no affect on her happiness.

She looked at me as somebody who ought to bring her happiness... and sure, I could buy her a nice piece of jewelry or bring her flowers or take her out on a special date and it might put her in a good mood, but it wasn't happiness. Happiness is rooted in contentment, and she was never content.
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 11:16:57 AM »

The fact that I had no affect on her happiness.

She looked at me as somebody who ought to bring her happiness... and sure, I could buy her a nice piece of jewelry or bring her flowers or take her out on a special date and it might put her in a good mood, but it wasn't happiness. Happiness is rooted in contentment, and she was never content.

That is true... .he was unable to be content and wanted me to make him happy. I just couln't do it.
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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2011, 11:22:02 AM »

 Great question & thread...

Blown away by the lack of object constancy and core identity... .He appeared to the outside world and for a while to me as so together, caring, nice, situational competence in many areas of his life, but in reality was extremely fragmented and damaged... So when the devaluing started, the blaming and the inevitable accusation that I was abusive, I was stunned by the "real" him... .He had developed some heavy, layered survival strategies to mask his mental illness...
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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2011, 11:27:12 AM »

4) Belief that love can prevail

I stayed in the marriage so long since I thought we could get through it and be better for it.  Once it fell apart, I started wondering why I wasn't enough for her.  I should have done X and then she wouldn't have cheated.  If I hadn't done Y she would know that I loved her and she would have loved me back.

After we decided to split we had a series of heart to heart conversations about our relationship.  I opened up about some things that I felt we didn't have.  She looked at me with a sad face and say, "Why didn't you tell me? It would have made a difference!" My first reaction was, man I screwed up the r/s because I couldn't be open with her about my needs and what we needed for us to work.

That conversation was just over 4 months ago.  I realize now that no matter what I had done, it would not have worked because she was not interested in making it work.  And the comment she made?  It was deflect blame/responsibility off herself to me.

I still believe that "love can prevail" but it has to be coming from both sides and it never was in our r/s.

Hman, I'm with you.  Had the exact same feelings and conversations.  It's hard to get past that what they say is just words.  Hadn't even thought about it as a way to deflect blame / responsibility.  I appreciate that.  Mine would often say 'how can you say I don't take blame?  I put all blame on myself and my friends often tell me how I'm too hard on myself - How I can't get a job, how I ended up in this relationship with you... .'  All I could think was 'Um, you quit your job, have wavered on what you wanted to do for the past few months and have turned down job offers'.  At that point I realized she wasn't taking blame, she enjoys playing the victim.
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« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2011, 11:29:11 AM »

The fact that I had no affect on her happiness.

She looked at me as somebody who ought to bring her happiness... and sure, I could buy her a nice piece of jewelry or bring her flowers or take her out on a special date and it might put her in a good mood, but it wasn't happiness. Happiness is rooted in contentment, and she was never content.

This is incredibly true Walrus.  My ex once called me in to watch a scene from Ally McBeal she had seen earlier that day where Ally's ex was saying he left her because she was never content.  My ex was sad because she realized that was her, that she was only temporarily happy and was never actually content.
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« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 11:49:21 AM »

Excerpt
he was unable to be content and wanted me to make him happy. I just couln't do it.

Quite a job isn't it.  My h has no ability to feel real joy or contentment.  Joy is very fleeting and can last a very short period of time.  Everything is judged - every minute of every single day is judged and processed.  So exhausting and unbelievable.  He judged my facial expressions, the weather, the dust on the stairs, the temperature, everything!  It must be hell!  But that hell turned into mine! 

The thing that used to boggle my mind was how he could be so enraged at me (practically frothing at the mouth) and answer the phone and engage in a happy "slap on the back" conversation.  I finally think I figured out it was another way to devalue me and to prop himself up.  This used to infuriate me like would not believe.  Oh Gosh, getting a stiff neck again just thinking about it.

Munchxo
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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2011, 12:08:04 PM »

How the illness becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How, because of their illness, they push away the ones giving them the only true thing they crave and never had themselves: love. Thats the real tragedy of BPD IMO.
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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2011, 12:17:15 PM »

Well said, Willy.

Diotima
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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2011, 12:33:12 PM »

How the illness becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How, because of their illness, they push away the ones giving them the only true thing they crave and never had themselves: love. Thats the real tragedy of BPD IMO.

I agree 100%. I told him several times this is what he was doing... .instead he projected and twisted things to make it seem like I pushed HIM away. That's what seems hardest to me - the fact that they don't let the people that love and adore them do just that, love and adore them... .they reject it, they don't understand it. It's the fact that they don't let you love them that's so painful... .so all this time it was like loving a brick wall... .it was a waste of the love I'm able to give.

Also what is hard is the fact that they have little to no capacity for empathy. They can't comprehend the pain they are causing, and so do nothing to change it. My ex watched and listened to me sob as he hurled insults and accusations at me... .and wonders why I couldn't even stand to look at him after that. It just puts my brain in knots to think that they don't feel that at all because that's what humans need to relate and come to together - empathy.
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« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 12:33:47 PM »

Excerpt
he was unable to be content and wanted me to make him happy. I just couln't do it.

Quite a job isn't it.  My h has no ability to feel real joy or contentment.  Joy is very fleeting and can last a very short period of time.  Everything is judged - every minute of every single day is judged and processed.  So exhausting and unbelievable.  He judged my facial expressions, the weather, the dust on the stairs, the temperature, everything!  It must be hell!  But that hell turned into mine!  

The thing that used to boggle my mind was how he could be so enraged at me (practically frothing at the mouth) and answer the phone and engage in a happy "slap on the back" conversation.  I finally think I figured out it was another way to devalue me and to prop himself up.  This used to infuriate me like would not believe.  Oh Gosh, getting a stiff neck again just thinking about it.

Munchxo

I have the same experience with my wife.  She just cannot be content with anything.  In fact, you can bet money if things are going good, she will create a drama to stop it.

I’ve also experienced my wife raging and literally foaming at the mouth, spittle flying.  The phone will ring and she will answer it all honey and sweet, joking with the person on the other end.  I’ve gotten over the anger at this once I learned of BPD, but it is still very disturbing to me.  Now I think it shakes me more because it is a sign of the truly disordered state underneath her exterior, that or evil.  I’m going with BPD/NPD for now.



Object constancy still gets me, because it is hard to tell if it is truly not remembering their bad acts or lies, I get some of both because if you catch her up in some lie she will often then admit and just minimize.

What I have the hardest time accepting is there is no ability to have a rational give-and-take conversation.  I’ve seen too many times where her feelings = fact and despite all evidence to the contrary she will deny facts, or basically say a fact that is against her view actually supports it.  Let alone the complete lack of empathy.

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« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 12:37:45 PM »

How the illness becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How, because of their illness, they push away the ones giving them the only true thing they crave and never had themselves: love. Thats the real tragedy of BPD IMO.

I will second that!

The hardest thing to get my head around is the splitting. How I can be the love of his life and he can't live without me then with the flip of a switch I am despised and he throws me away like piece of garbage. It's cruel and no matter how much i "get" the diagnosis it's still hard to comprehend.
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« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2011, 01:01:26 PM »

Great comments all.

Next question then - how does the fact of the illness help you to heal?

For me, it really has let me just "radically accept" this aspect of the disorder.  In doing so, I was able to detach & depersonalize.  This led me to grieve the loss of the actual relationship (my version of it), but not feel so victimized by the actions.

Do others find this true too?
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« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 01:09:09 PM »

but not feel so victimized by the actions.

Hmmm... .not sure about this.  What led me to not feel so victimized by his actions was that I finally realized there was something in ME that was attracted to dysfunctional people. When I started examining the relationships I'd had, I realized that I had always been involved with troubled people.  He was just so flagrantly troubled and over the top, that I had to pay attention (or lose my life.)  That caused me to take stock of ME.

So yes, to a degree, I accepted that he is mentally ill and there is nothing I could've/should've done about that -- but also a bigger moment of knowledge was the realization that I was attracted to horribly dysfunctional people and that it was a life long pattern that needed to be changed IMMEDIATELY.

turtle

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« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 01:11:45 PM »

Great comments all.

Next question then - how does the fact of the illness help you to heal?

For me, it really has let me just "radically accept" this aspect of the disorder.  In doing so, I was able to detach & depersonalize.  This led me to grieve the loss of the actual relationship (my version of it), but not feel so victimized by the actions.

Do others find this true too?

I fully understand its an illness. I cannot, however, depersonalize the most personal thing, an intimate romantic relationship. I still see her actions as coming from her as a person and not coming from BPD. OTH, I do not feel victimized. I hold her personal accountable for her actions and I take full responsibility for my actions (without blaming her).

I see BPD as an explanation, not an excuse.
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« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 02:05:40 PM »

Hmm, the fact of the illness and healing. After butting my head against a stone wall I am brought back to myself and what I need to do for myself.

It is true that my ex tapped into just about everything that was wounding to me as a child, but also into things that were positive in my childhood and young adult period. His behavior tore off the scabs of issues I thought I had come to terms with (abandonment and abuse) and so the pain was a bit too familiar    but the good parts of the r/s were what I had always wanted in life: a partner to do intellectual work with and have fun and travel with. We had a very broad spectrum of interests in common. I have had to mourn the loss of that dream in my refusal to be abused any longer and it is bittersweet. I hope that this time I will have finally come to terms with those childhood wounds as a result of this r/s.

The sad thing is that between us (if he were more aware) we could (both of us) have worked through our childhood wounds given all the positive things in the r/s.

Diotima
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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2011, 04:13:03 PM »

The hardest part to comprehend?  The complete Jekyll/Hyde personas.  How it is possible that the man who I believed to be gentle, kind, deeply loving, caring, compassionate, spiritual, etc., could turn into the person who was cold, contemptful, vicious and cruel. That was a mindbender for sure, and very frightening to know you'd shared such intimacy, opened your home, heart, life, body, mind to someone so dangerously duplicitous. 

How did learning about and acknowledging the illness help?  It gave an explanation where there could be no other.  Other than demonic possession that is, and that 's one I still debate now and then. 
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« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2011, 04:45:28 PM »

The hardest thing for me to wrap my brain around was how someone who was so loving, could be capable of such cruelty.

turtle

Yes, Turtle... .How he turned from being so loving, so tender, so kind to me, from wanting “us” to learn and grow together along a journey through life…. to being the most selfish, insensitive and cruel human being I’ve ever known has been without question, the most heartbreaking shock of my life… a total mindfxck... .

I loved and adored this man and would have done anything in this world for him… I’ve cried a river over the loss of him and yet he truly couldn’t care less if I died tomorrow… He’s in “love” with someone else and has cut me out of his life completely… as if we never meant anything to each other... .?

Wow, how did this happen? Such a beautiful man trapped within such a horrific mental illness… Personality disorders, both BPD and NPD... .

Yes, the cruelty towards me, a woman who loved him with all her heart and soul, is unfathomable… I don’t think I’ll ever get my head around what he did to me and to “us”…

But also, I will ever forget what it felt like to be in his arms ... .before the splitting began... .

It is all painfully cruel, isn't it?

WhiteDoe
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« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2011, 05:07:06 PM »

This may be he most riveting and deeply personal thread I have read on these boards.  I share so much with all of you.  Thank you... .and White Doe, my eyes mist as I read your post... .I feel your words so profoundly.  Amazing that we have all had such similiar experiences.
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« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2011, 05:09:26 PM »

The splitting.  They come into your life and turn all your relationships upside down.
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2011, 05:09:53 PM »

But also, I will ever forget what it felt like to be in his arms ... .before the splitting began... .

WhiteDoe[/i][/color]

You will forget this... .in time.  I remember not wanting to forget it, but time marches on and you do.  You forget it because it was not real and because the bad soo outweighs any good.  

I remember thinking I would never forget that, but I have... .and I'm glad.  The thought of being in the arms of my abuser makes me cringe now.

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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2011, 05:19:28 PM »

As other people said, her sense of entitlement confused me the most.  The fact that they can just speak with what sounds like total, unwavering certainty while saying HORRIBLE things to people they claim to love.  The fact that they feel no genuine remorse for ANYTHING, and anytime they even seem to feel remorse, it's just another manipulation tactic.  I hate it.
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« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2011, 05:54:22 PM »

The utter absence of logical thinking about important issues manifests in so many ways that... .I don't think I can really get into all of them. Or want to. But here's one example that came up recently.

My uBPDGF is a fairly low enlisted rank in the Air Force, so she makes relatively little money. She's also thousands of dollars in debt (and owes me almost a thousand bucks too, but I've given up on ever seeing that). She currently lives with some friends, and pays very low rent of $300/month.

She insists on moving out of this place, because she believes that living with these friends is driving them apart (it probably is, but some might argue that's going to happen anyway). So... .she starts looking at places that are $600-$700. Without utilities. And then she sees some that are $900/month without utilities, and starts telling me that she thinks the extra money is "WORTH IT". I try to explain that it doesn't matter if extra cost is "worth it" if it's money you don't have, but it falls on deaf ears.

But here's the real kicker. She tells me two days ago that she intends to sign up with a personal trainer. For $50 a session (25-45 minutes). Three times a week. Minimum 12 week commitment. I'll do the math for you: that's $600/month, for a total of $1800. To have some guy "motivate her" to work out. When she has free gym services on the base, and probably even free training advice if she seeks it out. I explain until I'm blue in the face that it's a horrible idea to spend that kind of money on an absolute luxury when she can barely cover her bills RIGHT NOW, and has substantial expenses coming up in the future. She insists that it's an important investment in herself, and that it's a great deal because "he normally charges $65-$120 per session". We have a giant fight over it. She signs up for it anyway. She only makes $2300/month, and she goes and commits a quarter of that to a personal trainer for three months. And ostensibly will be opting to commit some $1000/month to an apartment and utilities. Leaving some $700/month for everything else in her life, like gas, insurance, a cell phone, debt payments, food, and miscellaneous purchases (and she makes some really dumbsht purchases).

This is a girl who whines frequently that she can't afford to be with me, because she can't afford the gas for the 12 mile drive to my place and back, and can't afford to go out (I pay for everything anyway). Money has been a serious issue for us, because she feels obligated to pay for things (but doesn't anyway). And now, the DAY AFTER her first session, I ask if she wants to go grab dinner, and she's ALREADY pulling the line that she doesn't want to because she can't afford it, she just wants to go sit on the beach with me. It's just... .completely unbelievable.

She also seems to be under the impression that I should be punished because I don't want to move in with her. Why should I want to involve myself in a slow motion trainwreck?
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« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2011, 05:59:30 PM »

The utter absence of logical thinking about important issues manifests in so many ways that... .

this is a good one too - the fact that a pwBPD feelings are FACTS rather than facts are facts.

My ex is one of the top statisticians in the country - yet FEELINGS ruled decisions that really should be fact based.

During the hardest of the breakup phase, I sometimes think we get a taste of that when our own feelings are so strong and we struggle for the logic of it all - I couldn't imagine living like that all of the time; it would be exhausting.
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« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2011, 06:00:19 PM »

But also, I will ever forget what it felt like to be in his arms ... .before the splitting began... .

WhiteDoe[/i][/color]

You will forget this... .in time.  I remember not wanting to forget it, but time marches on and you do.  You forget it because it was not real and because the bad soo outweighs any good.  

I remember thinking I would never forget that, but I have... .and I'm glad.  The thought of being in the arms of my abuser makes me cringe now.

This makes me feel a bit better, I need that reassurance that these feelings will eventually pass. I'm in the same place as WhiteDoe... .sometimes I just have the strongest urge to want to be near him... .I still miss the way he held me tremendously. But I also know that as times got worse, even those good times were just not worth trudging through the bad, especially when the bad times became more frequent than the good. Hopefully I can be in the same place as you, Turtle, where I don't feel so hurt and empty and confused anymore.

As for how knowing this is a mental illness is helping me, it just allows me to step back and not take everything he said so personally and I am just trying to understand his thought process. At the same time, it still causes me a lot of pain to know that his love wasn't quite the same as mine... .if you could call what they do love at all.
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« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2011, 06:07:19 PM »

Yup: no truly rational responses to things and my ex is a philosopher!

Maybe it was my bad but I just read some old emails from earlier this year to set myself straight: he was attacking me while my mother was dying. It is true that I was telling him I didn't want the r/s any more because his behavior had caused me too much pain (other women in the midst of this), but ZERO EMPATHY. Those emails are useful I guess for reminding myself that, as one of my T friends said, "you just escaped a hand grenade." Then she upped the ante: "plutonium bomb." For some reason I got a little sad today and needed a reminder. He should have cut me some slack given my mother's death and he shouldn't have been off with other women. NO!

Can't wrap my head around ANY of it other than to say that it is madness.

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« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2011, 06:15:17 PM »

Yup: no truly rational responses to things and my ex is a philosopher!

Maybe it was my bad but I just read some old emails from earlier this year to set myself straight: he was attacking me while my mother was dying. It is true that I was telling him I didn't want the r/s any more because his behavior had caused me too much pain (other women in the midst of this), but ZERO EMPATHY. Those emails are useful I guess for reminding myself that, as one of my T friends said, "you just escaped a hand grenade." Then she upped the ante: "plutonium bomb." For some reason I got a little sad today and needed a reminder. He should have cut me some slack given my mother's death and he shouldn't have been off with other women. NO!

Can't wrap my head around ANY of it other than to say that it is madness.

Diotima

logically, I am sure you have deduced your mothers death triggered his fear of abandonment; that fact doesn't take away your pain - I am highly aware.

the fact of the disorder - fear of abandonment/engulfment can trigger such horrid behavior. 
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« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2011, 06:24:05 PM »

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel.

This blew my mind! To consider that the whole thing has been a facade, an act, whatever... .has absolutely made me crazy! I felt so used! So toyed with! So played! And so foolish! How could I have been so naive? How could I have just believed him? In him? But it felt so real!

This goes along with the Jekyll/Hyde issue. To finally have to accept that the Mr Hyde persona IS the real him, and that Dr Jekyll was just the act all along, was a very bitter pill to swallow! Heart wrenching! Shocking! I still have to talk myself thru this at times. Its like a nightmare... .surreal! Something you'd only expect to see in the movies!
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« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2011, 06:33:30 PM »

Seeking Balance: I think the reason my mother's death triggered his fear of abandonment was because almost all my attention was on my mother (hence he needed new women). However, this is complicated because HIS BPD mother had died five months earlier and he seemed oblivious to it--other than collecting an inheritance (and he needed new women to avoid dealing with his feelings). So I think both mothers dying around the same time were triggers but for different reasons. But I am dumbfounded (again) by reading those emails. Not ONE word about me and what I might be going through. It is enough to reinforce my decision--also in the emails are my statements about how I couldn't continue with him and I repeated the reasons why several times and he never acknowledged them (i.e., massive mood shifts and running off with other women--no trust). All he could say is that I wasn't romantic enough and he wanted more of me, etc. Too bad.

thanks for your message.

Diotima
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« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2011, 06:34:47 PM »

Two things are difficult for me. The lack of closure and their inability to see grey.

At 4 weeks NC there is no closure and I doubt he will ever contact me again. At least with most relationships that fail you can discuss what went wrong etc. I'll never get that because he hates me.

So many hours were spent discussing issues and my "side" was completely overlooked or didn't matter at all. They don't understand fair.
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« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2011, 06:59:09 PM »

I agree with Rez - B & W thinking - I even used this term before I realised about BPD.

Also the biggest for me was the self entitlement which I am guessing is probably more NPD. He felt extremely entitled to my money - in every sense of the word. Just posted on another thread and the list is endless.

He wanted a reward or benefit for everything - the neediness/self entitlement was ENDLESS! 
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« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2011, 07:22:38 PM »

But also, I will ever forget what it felt like to be in his arms ... .before the splitting began... .

WhiteDoe[/i][/color]

You will forget this... .in time.  I remember not wanting to forget it, but time marches on and you do.  You forget it because it was not real and because the bad soo outweighs any good.  

I remember thinking I would never forget that, but I have... .and I'm glad.  The thought of being in the arms of my abuser makes me cringe now.

This makes me feel a bit better, I need that reassurance that these feelings will eventually pass. I'm in the same place as WhiteDoe... .sometimes I just have the strongest urge to want to be near him... .I still miss the way he held me tremendously. But I also know that as times got worse, even those good times were just not worth trudging through the bad, especially when the bad times became more frequent than the good. Hopefully I can be in the same place as you, Turtle, where I don't feel so hurt and empty and confused anymore.

As for how knowing this is a mental illness is helping me, it just allows me to step back and not take everything he said so personally and I am just trying to understand his thought process. At the same time, it still causes me a lot of pain to know that his love wasn't quite the same as mine... .if you could call what they do love at all.

Yes, thank you Turtle... .I need this reassurance as well... .

And RedLightAnkle, thank you for the validation here... .I still "ache" over all of this but like you, I do find that knowing that he is seriously mentally ill does help... .

And yes, thinking that all the "love" he poured into me was not "real" or at least not in any healthy meaninful way, is devastating to accept... .But we must radically accept this in order to heal and move forward... .

WhiteDoe
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« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2011, 07:27:02 PM »

Engulfment-triggered splitting... .every single good time was followed by a horrible, abusive panic attack. I started thinking there was no point in trying to enjoy life with her. Oh, and abandonment-triggered splitting... .every single time I took time alone to work on something... .horrible abusive panic attack.

The thing that helped was realizing that I'd been exhibiting classic codependent behaviors and taking responsibility for tolerating her behavior.

Understanding the disorder didn't help that much, as I quickly realized (and she confirmed) that, even though the panic was involuntary, the abuse was mostly voluntary, just the easiest distraction from her pain.

Pain is... .some of her love is real.

--Argyle
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« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2011, 07:31:27 PM »

BAIT AND SWITCH

I have a hard time coming to terms with allowing myself "in" another person's world and building trust only to be completely ignored, rejected, and betrayed. Putting forth four years of hard work and only being met with stubbornness, defiance, and resistance all the way.

Feeling as though I had an adversary, not a partner.
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« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2011, 08:16:28 PM »

Great comments all.

Next question then - how does the fact of the illness help you to heal?

For me, it really has let me just "radically accept" this aspect of the disorder.  In doing so, I was able to detach & depersonalize.  This led me to grieve the loss of the actual relationship (my version of it), but not feel so victimized by the actions.

Do others find this true too?

I guess it helps me heal in the fact that it was not something that was personally directed at me. It was all in his head. No matter who he is with he will act the same way.

BPD is like a computer infected with a virus- whoever sits in front of it it's just not going to work right.
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« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2011, 08:44:47 PM »

Omg, that's what it is... ."bait and switch!"

I recall sending him a text telling him I felt betrayed because of all the promises he made to me and who he was at the beginning of the relationship wasn't who he was near the end.

Classic!


BAIT AND SWITCH

I have a hard time coming to terms with allowing myself "in" another person's world and building trust only to be completely ignored, rejected, and betrayed. Putting forth four years of hard work and only being met with stubbornness, defiance, and resistance all the way.

Feeling as though I had an adversary, not a partner.

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« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2011, 08:50:15 PM »

 Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) bait and switch is the term I've been using. 
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« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2011, 09:06:27 PM »

LACK OF EMPATHY- from someone who needed it constatntly but never reciprocated, and the INABILITY to accept love, which he claimed he desperately needed, and also never reciprocated.   I just gave up ?
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« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2011, 09:09:19 PM »

im still learning about all of this... .but for me its the splitting! i cant understand how he loves and wants to marry me and then 2 days later kicks me outta the house... .this has happened a few times, you woulda thought i would have gotten the picture alot earlier:S
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« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2011, 09:14:05 PM »

Hmmm, I think what bothers me the most is that we can't even have an adult conversation now. Here's someone who thought I was so wonderful, planned a future with me, let her baby call me "daddy", and then suddenly without much explanation I'm completely out of the picture. We spent 4-5 nights a week together. She was always telling me "We always talk about everything... .I'll never let you go... .Every time we hang out it's like a fun date... .I love doing stuff with you" When was I supposed to think I didn't "get her" (as she says? As time goes by I realize how the relationship wasn't as rosy as I thought and that I dodged a bullet. She was hiding her feelings from me. The disastrous end was who she really was. As non-disordered humans we're programmed to bond and to love babies. Intellectually I understand a lot of the disorder, but the depression that comes with the perception of losing a family runs deep.

I guess the hardest part for me to get around then is the splitting. If we could come to a meeting of the minds about the ending of the r/s then I think I'd be able to move on. I dated a girl for about 5 months earlier this year and I haven't had the second thought about her. We just didn't have the chemistry and we were both up front with each other. However, I often felt that gnawing in my stomach when my ex and I were still together and I ignored it. Somehow I never thought I'd be the victim of her splitting. I always knew somehow that she wasn't quite the adult I thought she was given that she had a baby and was married twice (at 24 y/o... .another red flag I ignored... .OUCH! OUCH!)
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« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2011, 09:23:50 PM »

Did it actually happen? Was it all real? Was it that bad?
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« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2011, 09:37:45 PM »

LACK OF EMPATHY- from someone who needed it constatntly but never reciprocated, and the INABILITY to accept love, which he claimed he desperately needed, and also never reciprocated.   I just gave up ?

Absolutely right, backontop... .I have never in all my 52 year seen another human being who was so utterly "clueless" in terms of having any sensitivity and/or ability to "take another person in"... .to "understand" where another person "lives"... .to "empathize"... .My beloved BPD/NPDex was completely void of empathy. It was so confusing to me... .

How could anyone, much less someone who "loved" you be so totally insensitive to your feelings? I still "ache inside" when I think of some of "unfiltered" insensitive remarks that he made to me. I honestly don't think he ever said these cruel things intending to hurt me as they truly did... .But rather, he was was mentally "off" and didn't "understand" that he was "inappropriate". He never apologized for hurting my feelings when he made me cry... .He was simply "missing something upstairs"? Yes, lack of empathy is a very difficult thing for me to get my head around?

I am so very different inside... .and I am so grateful to be "me"... .Maybe I care "too much" at times but, to live a life lacking empathy and the capacity for love would be a truly miserable life. As hurt as I've been by the horrific emotional abuse in my BPD/NPD relationship, I'd rather be "me"... .a non with a chance for finding authentic love.

I cannot ever have anything less than compassion for my beloved BPD/NPDex, however. I cannot begin to realize the living hell that he experiences deep inside his BPD/NPD mind... .God, how I wish I could help him... .I would give anything in this world to help him... .But, I have to help "me" now. I need to heal and move on while praying for him and loving him from afar... .After all, as I've said so many times before, he is, without question, a beautiful man trapped inside a serious mental illness... .

WhiteDoe
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« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2011, 09:51:54 PM »

More on Bait and Switch-

In fact, what I find interesting is that it seemed like the whole relationship was a "big tease."

Zillions of promises evaporating into thin air.

As many promises to improve our situation were also completely abandoned after a fitful start:

"I'll go to therapy. I want to work on the relationship. I'll go to 12 step meetings. I will stop acting out sexually. I'll get ADHD meds. I'll have my sleep apnea checked out. I'll (fill in blank... .)"

Oodles of times I was made to think something racy was going to happen that day or during a vacation and the only passionate thing that would transpire was a fight.

The relationship starting off incredibly romantic and close, physically intimate, and then withering away into bitterness and distrust and physical distance.

He'd get me hot and bothered then get up and say "we'll resume later" and nothing would happen later. Or he'd tease me until it was obvious I was interested and then say "Let's get tacos."

So one morning I got him all worked up and suddenly stopped, got up, and said I was going to go grocery shopping and I did. I did explain that what he had just experienced is what he had been doing for some time now. The teasing stopped after that... .

So did everything else... .Guess he showed me!

(Interestingly he himself liked fantasy in which he was being teased... .strip bars etc... .)
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« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2011, 10:36:35 PM »

I can't make up my mind which of the following three:

1. Empathy - this encounter absolutely blew my mind.  I am no longer able to carry a child, as I

    will miscarry.  Was pretty sure this happened and waited to tell him in person.  After I did, he

    said, "Are you done talking now?  Can we watch TV?"  This is when I knew something was

    VERY wrong with this man.

2. Lying/manipulation - I am unsure at this point what was true, and what he told me to get the

    outcome he wanted.  When I didn't respond the way he planned I would, first shock, and then

    rage; I didn't play the game right...

3. Crazy creepy stalking like behavior - feel like now that we're done, I'm in some horror movie.  I

    know his schedule - when he goes to bed, when he eats dinner; he is very ritualistic.  I get

    wierd hang up calls on my cell phone from the same number since we split up.  They are always

    at these times from the same number, on his days off.  I tried to find out who this number is     

    but can't.  You have to watch who you tell this stuff to, because YOU start looking like the       

    crazy one! Smiling (click to insert in post)


     

 
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« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2011, 10:39:37 PM »

How could anyone, much less someone who "loved" you be so totally insensitive to your feelings?

Upon learning of BPD, this is the part that frightened me, sent chills down my spine. The whole lack of empathy thing, with regard to my H, is along the lines of sociopathic. This chills me both for myself, and for our children! How could I have overlooked this/ let this slide?
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« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2011, 09:17:02 AM »

I'm not sure this is a FACT about BPD that is stated anywhere, but the hardest thing for me to come to terms with in my 18+ years of marriage to uBPDw is how she has been able to turn my virtues into faults and strengths into weakneses. What I mean is that the good things I had worked hard during my life to develop within myelf - like loving deeply, loyality, honesty, compassion, generosity, endurance during trials, etc. - have been the very things she has used as pathways to abuse me with her disorder.

Hatred is returned for love; the greater the love the greater the hatred. Deceit is returned for honesty. Hostility is returned compassion. Greed for generosity, accusation for support, betrayal for loyality, and on.

So, the result has been that virtues and strengths, which in normal circumstances would benefit both parties in the relationship, were turned into the very opposite in her perceptions, as if they were odious vices and weaknesses. And she acted on those perceptions just as if they were fact.

Who really can wrap their mind around something like that? It is the universe inverted.
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« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2011, 09:50:48 AM »

As I have mentioned also, the lack of empathy is mind-boggling. Once he actually told me that if I got cancer and had to lose my hair in chemo, he might break up with me because he loves my hair (this was after the honeymoon phase of course... .when we were really good once he told me he would be the first to shave his head with me if that were to happen - total turn around). I also asked him if he would help me and take care of me if I got sick with like flu or something. He replied, "I would stay the hell away from you until you got better." This after he got strep throat once the summer before and I was willing to stay by him all night if he had wanted me to, except he sent me home (this incident he didn't remember just 9 months later... .I'm pretty sure he chose to forget it).

And he likes to say he can feel other people's pain and suffering more than most people... .HA, what a joke. The fact that he led me to believe I could come to him when I was hurt or scared or anxious and that he would support me, then when I did just turned around and told me to "stop complaining", it hurt.
Hatred is returned for love; the greater the love the greater the hatred. Deceit is returned for honesty. Hostility is returned compassion. Greed for generosity, accusation for support, betrayal for loyality, and on.

So, the result has been that virtues and strengths, which in normal circumstances would benefit both parties in the relationship, were turned into the very opposite in her perceptions, as if they were odious vices and weaknesses. And she acted on those perceptions just as if they were fact.

Who really can wrap their mind around something like that? It is the universe inverted.

Fish, I can relate to this too. The qualities that he apparently loved about me in the first place became fodder for him to mock and ridicule me. He loved that I had my own opinion - yet when I disagreed with him I wasn't "listening" to him or he would manipulate me into either feeling bad or stupid about my opinion or making me change it altogether. He loved how kind I was, but later told me I let people walk all over and I've become "everyone's little puppet." He thought I was "funny" - I'm rather quirky and a bit child-like sometimes, but can also be sarcastic. He used to love it, but then it turned into "simple-mindedness" or that I was being mean to him when I was sarcastic. He thought I was a good actress and admired it - then questioned it later and insulted me about it. Everything he loved became everything he hated... .it was terribly confusing.
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« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2011, 09:54:49 AM »

I'm not sure this is a FACT about BPD that is stated anywhere, but the hardest thing for me to come to terms with in my 18+ years of marriage to uBPDw is how she has been able to turn my virtues into faults and strengths into weakneses. What I mean is that the good things I had worked hard during my life to develop within myelf - like loving deeply, loyality, honesty, compassion, generosity, endurance during trials, etc. - have been the very things she has used as pathways to abuse me with her disorder.

mine did this too - I think where it falls into the parameters of the disorder is where a pwBPD Feelings are facts, not facts.

Prefacing this with it being an archaic explanation - let's say BPD it triggered by a perceived abandonment (you are going on a work trip).  You say you will call as soon as you are in (because you value respect of your word in yourself)... .well, the flight was delayed and your cell phone dead - so you call about 3 hours late.  At this point, the BPD brain knows your core value is respecting your word - so to hurt you most - project all their pain onto you - it will be used against you.  "Fish, you cannot be trusted with your word whatsoever.  You play by your own set of rules."

in this scenerio we get, splitting, projection and recreating facts to match the feelings - all BPD traits.

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« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2011, 10:29:35 AM »

 Hi Fish & SB:

Your posts highlight the core issues! They are unable to trust, act in blaming, abusive ways and want their partners to be responsible for all of their pain so are constantly projecting... At the end I was devastated at being accused of being abusive, untrustworthy & "never being supportive" of him... All my values, strengths of being trustworthy, being there for him unconditionally were used against me... As he was accusing me of being untrustworthy, he denied having an affair... Of course he was... The whole replacement thing...

Radical acceptance was the only way to go... It is what it is... .a chronic mental illness...
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« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2011, 02:56:44 PM »

Excerpt
The thing that used to boggle my mind was how he could be so enraged at me (practically frothing at the mouth) and answer the phone and engage in a happy "slap on the back" conversation.  I finally think I figured out it was another way to devalue me and to prop himself up.  This used to infuriate me like would not believe.  Oh Gosh, getting a stiff neck again just thinking about it."—Munchxo

"I have the same experience with my wife.  She just cannot be content with anything. In fact, you can bet money if things are going good, she will create a drama to stop it.

I’ve also experienced my wife raging and literally foaming at the mouth, spittle flying.  The phone will ring and she will answer it all honey and sweet, joking with the person on the other end.

OMG--Mine did the same exact thing. To be honest, for the longest time, I didn't think it to be a BPD symptom. Just thought she had amazing self-control cause when I get pissed, I'm typically in a bad mood with everyone for at least a couple of minutes.

I asked her about it several times: "How in the hell can you be screaming at me a minute ago and be all nice and sweet with X a few seconds later.

Her response? "Well, I'm not pissed at X"
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« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2011, 05:18:51 PM »

That I was so replaceable... ."insert person here" (arrow pointing at empty spot next to BPD person) syndrome.
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« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2011, 12:49:36 AM »

Yes, SD, the replaceable stuff. I don't think I have wrapped my head around that one yet, despite what I know about object relations, etc. That one HURT like hell... .has a half life like plutonium. I am over a fair amount of stuff but that one lingers... .

Diotima
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« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2011, 01:22:12 AM »

I cannot comprehend for the life of me how they can twist words/phrases/things said that could even be COMPLIMENTS into something bad against them (ex. saying i'm proud of her for something and she says i'm patronizing her)... .and how they can reconstruct reality of what happened to justify their emotions and fully believe it!

As my mom says "it boggles my mind!"
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« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2011, 01:28:54 AM »

T2: yeah, that does boggle the mind and is crazy making. You do or say something nice out of love... .it probably triggered abandonment fears because it was intimate. Terrible rejection for us, who are trying to be intimate with them. So happy not to have that in my life right now.

Diotima
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« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2011, 10:52:41 AM »

Tough question to answer.  There are too many 'facts' that my head can't get around. 

From the list, I'd say "Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel".  I've come to realize that my ex may have never felt the same way as me, ever, nor is she probably even capable of feeling the way I felt.  My ex lives in a fantasy world, constantly trying to stay on that "high".  I was merely a replaceable figure who holds no real substance.  Remove Why Why Why and replace me with Who Who Who or What What What... .it doesn't matter to my ex so long as there's someone else there she will turn it all into the same fantasy dream world.

My ex is phenomenal at mirroring, and since I read her emails for a short period after the break-up I can attest to this 100%!  She will mirror exactly what the guy says and does.  That's part of her skillset and survival mechanism.  I think that's another 'fact' that is difficult for my head to get around... .their chameleon-like abilities to blend in only to engulf, entrap, and devour you.  But none of it is truly genuine, it's merely for survival.

Another thing I find fascinating is her script.  My ex uses the SAME lines, the SAME story, the SAME strategy with each guy.  It's almost like she has a script that she follows and so the story unfolds exactly the same each and every time.  She'll tailor the story to fit that particular guy in her life, but the overall plot and storyline remain the same.
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« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2011, 11:12:41 AM »

That I was so replaceable... ."insert person here" (arrow pointing at empty spot next to BPD person) syndrome.

good one - that idealization phase made me believe that I really was the "one".  Call it vulnerable narcissism or saviour complex on my part (whichever) - but,  it was shocking to be replaced so easily!
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« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2011, 12:21:20 PM »

That I was so replaceable... ."insert person here" (arrow pointing at empty spot next to BPD person) syndrome.

good one - that idealization phase made me believe that I really was the "one".  Call it vulnerable narcissism or saviour complex on my part (whichever) - but,  it was shocking to be replaced so easily!

Yes, this was soo deeply hurtful to me also. And I wasnt even replaced by a person! How does one wrap their brain around that? For me it was "insert computer porn here". I was replaced by an inanimate object! That's one way to avoid intimacy, for sure!
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« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2011, 01:31:52 PM »

I may be stretching the original question a bit, but the hardest part for me was realizing that I was seriously ill, that I was 'crazy' in a way, because only someone very troubled would stay in a relationship with a person who treats you the way my uBPDexgf did.

Everything that has been said here is completely valid, and I can see all the pain everyone here has been through because of these things.  And For some reason, the realization that no one had done this to me but myself was the hardest.  I had been blaming, denying, and repressing for so long - when this fact hit me, it hit me hard and sent me spiralling downhill for a while.

'But what does that say about me? / A couple bandages, and knuckle sandwiches. / What does that say about ME? I just don't know. / Without sunshine and rain, the grass won't grow' - buck 65
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« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2011, 03:27:09 PM »

The pwBPD in my life suffers from a low self worth but masks it with a sense of entitlement and power. She also has a complete lack of boundaries. So it's not unusual for her to act inappropriately in any given setting. (I've bolded up the two "facts" that I struggle with the most)

~DG

I am in the undecided section but also felt the need to post here after seeing the discussion thread.

My pwBPD *18 year marriage -- refuses to respect my boundaries in regards to our separation - I agree to meet with him yesterday in a public place to talk with him to try to process what happened just before I moved out and told him that I wanted a separation (over the phone when he called from jail wanting me to bail him out -- it was safer to just leave). He also has a complete sense of entitlement (e.g. let's get a motel room if you won't come home; I need to held and touched) or you can come home and we'll work it out there -- I'll sleep in another room. I know he just wants control and he is paranoid and mistrusting when I am not with him. But I stood my ground. He listened to me, but he was so defensive and kept saying "can't we just give it a break and go eat and have some fun. Can't we just go to a hotel; we deserve some time when we are not thinking about this".  I said no, and no, and no, but he kept asking, so I left... .came home feeling like nothing was really accomplished.

This is his email to me this morning before I blocked all communication:

"We have a life, together. I am so sorry that night got out of hand, and I am bearing the brunt of it. A wife and a husband should take care of each other first; if we do not, we can't help anyone else.  No, things are not always perfect ;that is  is what it is to be human. We have built a very enviable life, not something false."

I am struggling with the false belief that "love will prevail" -- after talking to him yesterday, I can see that all  he wants is a quick fix, and he really thinks love will solve everything, and I guess I used to believe that, but now I struggle with the faith that any therapy will help at all. In 18 years nothing has changed, so why do I continue to hold on to the belief it will?

"BPD mood swings and cycles may have you conditioned to think that, even after a bad period, you can return to the "idealization". Your BPD partner may believe this too. A more realistic representation of your relationship is the one you have recently experienced."  I told him that we cannot move forward without facing head on what happened on the weekend of July 4.  I am still undecided about the marriage, but I am not undecided about leaving and having a separation with no contact except in a therapist's office (not marriage counseling, but a  meeting with a therapist who treats couples in a marriage with a pwBPD and bipolar). And if I see the same type of denial and lying... .that is it. No more.


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« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2011, 08:45:23 AM »

I may be stretching the original question a bit, but the hardest part for me was realizing that I was seriously ill, that I was 'crazy' in a way, because only someone very troubled would stay in a relationship with a person who treats you the way my uBPDexgf did.

Everything that has been said here is completely valid, and I can see all the pain everyone here has been through because of these things.  And For some reason, the realization that no one had done this to me but myself was the hardest.  I had been blaming, denying, and repressing for so long - when this fact hit me, it hit me hard and sent me spiralling downhill for a while.

'But what does that say about me? / A couple bandages, and knuckle sandwiches. / What does that say about ME? I just don't know. / Without sunshine and rain, the grass won't grow' - buck 65

This is so true and yes... .it was a fact that I grappled with for a long time.  And... .it was the thing that sent me into clinical depression.  All of crazyx's abuse was horrible, but why I tolerated it even ONE time still haunts me.

turtle

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« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2011, 10:26:03 AM »

Turtle, yes, we tolerated abuse--but only after we had been hooked and in love. The abuse at first seemed like a strange aberration and not the "real" person. It didn't make sense. So we are like the frog in the sauce pan and the heat of the water is gradually turned up. I'll bet we won't do it again! We will know the Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) . My T's comment at the end was to that effect.

Diotima
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« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2011, 11:21:57 AM »

Turtle, yes, we tolerated abuse--but only after we had been hooked and in love. The abuse at first seemed like a strange aberration and not the "real" person. It didn't make sense. So we are like the frog in the sauce pan and the heat of the water is gradually turned up. I'll bet we won't do it again! We will know the  |>. My T's comment at the end was to that effect.

Diotima

I agree about the frog in the sauce pan.  I totally get that no one delivers full blown crazy to your door and you let them in and say "oh, yes... .I'll have THAT."  I can accept the frog in the sauce pan theory for all the verbal abuse that occurred prior to the physical abuse.  I'm not proud that I let him verbally abuse me, but I can see how that happened -- how it was, as you say, an "abberation" and didn't make sense.  What I do not accept, however, is why I didn't get rid of him after he shoved me that very first time.  How could I think so little of myself that I would keep him around after that?  If I had loved myself enough to get rid of him after that first shove, the horrific events (which escalated to horrible proportions) that followed would never have happened.  I'm not making excuses for him.  He's a criminal and belongs in prison. However... .I had checked out of my own life and put my well being in the hands of that criminal. That's on ME.

turtle

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« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2011, 11:35:48 AM »

The '3 year old in an adult body' thing. How someone could be so intelligent in one aspect, and so utterly clueless in another. Still hard to wrap my head around.
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« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2011, 11:48:59 AM »

Wow, great thread SB!

For me it is the complete lack of guilt for bad behaviour.

I know that BP act certain ways because they have overwhelming feelings to do so. But even afterwards, there appears to be no guilt, only righteous justification for their behaviour. Even when mine admitted she was wrong, it was entirely to leverage her position eg. I apologised, you need to forget it and move on (wow, you are nice aren't you... )

Mine even faked feeling bad about stuff, but when pressured, she showed she didnt at all.

I cant get my head around it because i thought that all humans had an innate sense of caring for others and would feel something.

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« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2011, 12:03:54 PM »

Hmm, I posted something and it didn't post--must have come in simultaneously with westgate.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Turtle, I think I didn't realize the extent of  your ex's physical abuse. I didn't think you were excusing him at all--and there is no excuse for his behavior. I just hope in your searching yourself for why you allowed it to go on that you are not being punitive with regard to yourself. I think asking those questions about ourselves is part of healing childhood wounds and BPDs seems to have an unerring sense of where to aim the abuse, although it is probably just a by-product of their illness.

jhan: the three-year-old (or less) in the adult body is definitely difficult to wrap the old head around!

Diotima
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« Reply #75 on: September 10, 2011, 02:47:35 PM »

How the illness becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. How, because of their illness, they push away the ones giving them the only true thing they crave and never had themselves: love. Thats the real tragedy of BPD IMO.

It is a if she was inexorably on a path to become everything she feared and hated in her parents. She became the worst of both then blamed me for having those traits so she could reject me.

I could not get my head around what had happened. How did this vulnerable person who dependend on me for so much suddenly get the strenght to reject me.

My wife ultimately was programmed to self distruct everything she and I had ever achieved. She did this in the name of achieving her own freedom and happiness. She is not happy and she still will not let go of me. So far she has failed in these two Goals.

But... .

The hardest thing for me to accept when I first figured it out is that she never loved me and I never saw that she never loved me. She seemed so intent on ensuring that I loved her that I assumed it was because she loved me when in fact I merely provided her with all of her needs for such a long time.

Learning that she is not capable of love was very difficult especially after 21 yrs together.




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« Reply #76 on: September 10, 2011, 02:55:02 PM »

I cant get my head around it because i thought that all humans had an innate sense of caring for others and would feel something.

Although there are a lot of co-mordities, pwBPD do have very strong feelings. As a matter of fact per definition they are hypersensitive to it and do not know how to deal with it.

In rare cases of openess, my ex did show guilt and shame for certain situations.

A long time ago I had a concosion. I could only bare the sunlight having sunglasses that block all UV-rays. I think its the same with BPD. Nons do not get the sunglasses that seem to block it all. The sunglasses could be self-delusion denial, drugs or whatever.

@MJJ, one of my toughest realizations is that she never cared for my well-being. Also that she wanted to pull me into her misery, instead of me pulling her out of it.
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« Reply #77 on: September 10, 2011, 03:04:38 PM »

Turtle, yes, we tolerated abuse--but only after we had been hooked and in love. The abuse at first seemed like a strange aberration and not the "real" person. It didn't make sense. So we are like the frog in the sauce pan and the heat of the water is gradually turned up. I'll bet we won't do it again! We will know the  |>. My T's comment at the end was to that effect.

Diotima

I agree about the frog in the sauce pan.  I totally get that no one delivers full blown crazy to your door and you let them in and say "oh, yes... .I'll have THAT."  I can accept the frog in the sauce pan theory for all the verbal abuse that occurred prior to the physical abuse.  I'm not proud that I let him verbally abuse me, but I can see how that happened -- how it was, as you say, an "abberation" and didn't make sense.  What I do not accept, however, is why I didn't get rid of him after he shoved me that very first time.  How could I think so little of myself that I would keep him around after that?  If I had loved myself enough to get rid of him after that first shove, the horrific events (which escalated to horrible proportions) that followed would never have happened.  I'm not making excuses for him.  He's a criminal and belongs in prison. However... .I had checked out of my own life and put my well being in the hands of that criminal. That's on ME.

turtle

I did the same exact thing- so my core beliefs about who I am have been shaken.    I gave up my entire life for someone else, and I had not gotten that life easily- I worked hard for it.   I have done and said things that I NEVER would have believed I would... .and that, folks, haunts me daily.

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« Reply #78 on: September 10, 2011, 03:16:51 PM »

She wanted to pull me into her misery, instead of me pulling her out of it.

In time this begins to wear you down. I think I eventually reacted against this and this triggered a reaction in her when I would no longer listed to her missery, her terrible world, that nobody liked her, that she had no friends that everyone else was bad. I think the way I dealt with this must have invalidated her.

Turtle, yes, we tolerated abuse--but only after we had been hooked and in love.

This is mind boggling to me. Verbal and the truly nasty emotional abuse. I look back and wonder how?

Some of the things she said are just beyond me. How I tolerated and did not even recognise it as abuse. I was even told that it was my fault (gaslighting).

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« Reply #79 on: September 10, 2011, 06:01:21 PM »



I've thought about this question over and over and over since the original posting.  I feel compelled to answer since the thread is filling up and I think I finally have an answer.  

It is not one of the facts from the list of ten.  Rather here is the fact that bugs me the most.  This woman was able to 100% destroy my self worth, confidence, and self esteem even though she told several people around her that the reason for our breakup was that "[shocked] wasn't the one" or "[shocked] wasn't the right person for me."  And also told her friends [shocked] is a "great guy" just not "the one."

Well, if I'm so "great" why did she destroy me in every way in a cold, heartless manner that I never saw coming.  And what was it that makes me not "the one?"  I think the fact that she recognized (or least said to others I shouldn't have heard from) that I was a "great guy" but wasn't whatever she was seeking "exactly" really tore me apart.  I mean she didn't tell me that.  She raged and yelled that she didn't love me, didn't care about me, etc etc... .So what is the truth in her mind?  Everyone I know including her family said she never gave a reason for the breakup besides not "the one" or the "right person"... .I think she would have known this before three intense years including discussions about marriage, children, vacation, etc just weeks before she disappeared... .

I guess that she can't handle emotional intimacy is the best answer I can accept.  She is ill despite all of my love.  
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« Reply #80 on: September 10, 2011, 06:13:03 PM »

Shocked: When it comes time to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk, BPDs can't hack it. They can't do the nuts and bolts of having a r/s--negotiating, talking things through, etc. If you try to do what sane people assume one does to make a r/s work, the BPD doesn't get it and that means that you can't possibly be "the one," because "the one" wouldn't ask such things--it would be honeymoon all the time or nothing.

When my ex wanted to break up, he said we weren't "compatible as a couple." All that meant was that he wanted to chase another woman because it was easier than trying to figure out how to have a r/s.   

Diotima
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« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2011, 05:42:33 AM »

The splitting... .or is it the object constancy... .no the denials... .definitely the projection... .mind you the object constancy is a killer... .the contradictory behaviour... .it all boils down to the one main problem which is... .SPLITTING... .AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2011, 06:20:18 AM »

... .and she would say, "I don't think I can ever get better from this."  I would assure her that she could and that she needed to keep working at it in T.   But the next day she would have forgotten about the conversation and gone back to just trying to cope with herself.

This is so similar to what my partner says - he says "this is me, and I cant change at all" .  He'll be remorseful (and I think its genuine) , and the next day, its like we'd never had a conversation.  It's all back to square one.  Im often left with a feeling that the conversation was all in vain.

But the part of BPD that baffles me the most is that I am so replaceable.  It leaves me feeling that it's not "me" he 'loves" but anyone who will be there for him.   I think the attraction about me was that I offered a lot of stability (apparently cos Im so boring and predictable - haha).  I find it sad to see a person run off and mirror another person so readily.  To the extent that when he is with a non-smoker he's a non smoker and when he's with a smoker - you guessed it - he's a smoker! I just find it hard to get my head around that.  I feel bad for him that life is such a struggle with no boundaries to define yourself.
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« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2011, 10:28:45 AM »

I was reading all these replies and also thought about the fact that my happiness seemed to be a threat to him.  Anything I did and enjoyed made him angry.  Was it because he was afraid if I found happiness outside of him I would leave him?  Was it because he was so miserable all the time that it meant I didn't love him if I was happy?  Misery loves company.  Was it just plane jealousy that something took my time and attention away from him? 

If my sister came to visit I hadn't seen in 4 years... .it was the end of the world.  He made sure to be extra miserable and made sure I knew and felt guilty.  There was no, "I'm happy for you that your sister is here... .go have lunch with her and enjoy the time together." 

When I spent time with the kids... .didn't I know that in a marraige relationship you should always work on couple time first?  I obviosly didn't care about "us."   He used to say, "the love between two people bring children into the world and then the children destroy that love."  It would make me so mad.  I shouldn't have to "pick"  him over the children.  We are a family.  Can't you come and join us and have some fun family time... .then we can spend some of our own couple time together and I will feel more in love because I see what a good daddy you are.  (sigh)

I just couldn't be happy without him getting angry so I had to hide my happyness or have a big blow up.  Wait for the right time to let him know I was going to do an activity that looked fun... .and never ever go visit relatives or go to a womens retreat and leave him home with the kids.
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« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2011, 11:25:52 AM »

Sapphire: yes, I think being happy on your own would trigger abandonment issues because you are doing something separate from the BPD even if in reality that something is no threat whatsoever to him. They have just two modes: fusion and separation--nothing in between that would constitute the space within which two independent people in a r/s operate.

My ex complained bitterly that I was "too independent" and not being a "we" whenever I did something on my own. Never mind that he and I did most things together and consulted all the time about what we would do... .Even if I said "I am going to the gym," etc.

Attention given to others, such as your relatives, would also trigger him. It is infantile.

Diotima
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« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2011, 02:11:04 PM »

The fact that he suffers from a mental illness which causes him to act and react in ways which make a healthy relationship impossible.  The fact that I can intellectually understand all kinds of stuff about BPD and still never cease to be amazed by his actions and my own actions and acceptance of harmful, destructive behavior from someone who claims to love me.

Recent conversation, having just hung up the phone with my mom who is going through intense chemotherapy treatment for lymphoma and now has an infection in her vein caused by the IV that was inserted for chemo:

Me: "I'm worried about my mom, she sounds like she is feeling really badly."

exBPDbf: ":)id she say why she hasn't started another Scrabble game with me?"

Me: "No, but her sister is visiting and she's only there for 24 hours so I'm sure it's nothing personal.  Also, she's just feeling really badly, you know?  She's feeling achy, she has mouth sores that make it hard to eat or drink, and her arm is wrapped up because of the vein infection and I'm just--"

exBPDbf (SINGING THE FIRST LINE): "That guy you're with, is like a mouthful of sores ... .(pause) ... .Do you recognize that song? from Mr. Show?"  (Mr. Show is one of the billion tv programs he likes to watch and quote)

"Yes.  But I'm just trying to think of what I could do to --"

":)o you really recognize that song?  Or are you just saying that?"

Next: discussion about the fact that I said "yes" but it seemed like I was being dismissive.  Then discussion of how he hates it that I dismiss his feelings and what he says which is ALL OF THE TIME.  Followed by video game playing with the music turned up and loud swearing every time his video game character died.

In closing: what fact of BPD has been the hardest to get my head around and why?  The utter and complete lack of empathy.  The ability to (almost) create a my baggage a deux.   



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« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2011, 02:27:49 PM »

allwillbewell: OMG! I am speechless.

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« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2011, 02:32:41 PM »

Allwillbewell:

You said it, you're on the money.

I really did feel a similarity to a my baggage a deux situation except I was CONSCIOUS of doing it while I was doing it, if you know what I mean. It was a CHOICE to "think nutty." In other words more like the "Stockholm Syndrome." This means that I must have seen this person as necessary for my survival on some primitive level.

So... .he was my parents resurrected. And I thought I was "over" them.
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« Reply #88 on: September 11, 2011, 02:38:35 PM »

Yea, SD, I have discovered that emotionally my grief is so bad because my ex was my father (especially) resurrected. This much grief CANNOT be for a manipulative, lying, cheating, @sshole. Never in a million years would I have a friend who did 1/10th of what my ex did. Mind-boggling when looked at objectively.

D
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« Reply #89 on: September 11, 2011, 03:45:54 PM »

As I have mentioned also, the lack of empathy is mind-boggling. Once he actually told me that if I got cancer and had to lose my hair in chemo, he might break up with me because he loves my hair (this was after the honeymoon phase of course... .when we were really good once he told me he would be the first to shave his head with me if that were to happen - total turn around). I also asked him if he would help me and take care of me if I got sick with like flu or something. He replied, "I would stay the hell away from you until you got better." ... .

Yes, RRA... .There is no empathy, only childlike selfishness... .When I needed him most, he literally abandoned me out of nowhere... .

I was painfully aware that he never "had my back". Yet, I would have done anything in this world for him, anything! I would have taken a bullet for him! Hmm? Yes, my ex loved my hair also... .I have no doubt that if I ever had cancer or any other disease that would "interfere" with his "fantasy of me", I would never be able to count on him for anything... .I was a replaceable object, period... .This made me feel as though I had no value to him at all…

God knows how hard I tried to be "perfect enough" for him? My "illness" exposed once again... .That was what I "learned" growing up in the utter chaos that was my FOO. I loved and adored my father, a girl’s first introduction to “love"... .But my father was "cold", emotionally distant, "unavailable"... .Praise and attention from Dad was gained via straight A's on a report card and "obedience"... .Hence, I never stepped off the sidewalk. I sought Dad’s “approval” for everything I did… If I went “against” my Dad’s wishes I “knew” I was destined for failure… I had no confidence in “me”…

Love had to be "earned" or at least that was my "interpretation" growing up in a seriously dysfunctional home…

So, once the splitting started, I worked very hard to be “worthy” of my BPD/NPD’s love… I blamed myself for his “dark moods” although intellectually, on some level, I knew this couldn’t be true?

Yes, this ordeal has clearly exposed my "issues"... .I hope to one day, look back at all of this pain and suffering and see the "gift" in all of it?

WhiteDoe

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whitedoe
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« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2011, 03:47:58 PM »

The fact that he suffers from a mental illness which causes him to act and react in ways which make a healthy relationship impossible.  The fact that I can intellectually understand all kinds of stuff about BPD and still never cease to be amazed by his actions and my own actions and acceptance of harmful, destructive behavior from someone who claims to love me.

I could've written these words myself, allwillbewell!   

WhiteDoe
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« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2011, 03:53:08 PM »

Shocked: When it comes time to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk, BPDs can't hack it. They can't do the nuts and bolts of having a r/s--negotiating, talking things through, etc. If you try to do what sane people assume one does to make a r/s work, the BPD doesn't get it and that means that you can't possibly be "the one," because "the one" wouldn't ask such things--it would be honeymoon all the time or nothing.

When my ex wanted to break up, he said we weren't "compatible as a couple." All that meant was that he wanted to chase another woman because it was easier than trying to figure out how to have a r/s.   Diotima

I was told that "I wasn't the one" and that he "needed to date other women"? This completely out of nowhere? Huh? Yes, it is far easier for them to "start fresh" with a "new honeymoon", Diotima!

pwBPD/NPD have no ability to work together on a relationship... .

I know this painful reality only too well!  

WhiteDoe
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« Reply #92 on: September 11, 2011, 03:57:56 PM »

Yes, and then they conveniently forget they ever said these things when they come back and get all romantic again--having no clue how much damage they have done in the process, until the damage is just too much to bear--and I could not go on with it anymore.

D
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« Reply #93 on: July 26, 2017, 05:44:51 PM »

Shocked: When it comes time to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk, BPDs can't hack it. They can't do the nuts and bolts of having a r/s--negotiating, talking things through, etc. If you try to do what sane people assume one does to make a r/s work, the BPD doesn't get it and that means that you can't possibly be "the one," because "the one" wouldn't ask such things--it would be honeymoon all the time or nothing.

When my ex wanted to break up, he said we weren't "compatible as a couple." All that meant was that he wanted to chase another woman because it was easier than trying to figure out how to have a r/s.  
<br/>:)iotima

I didnt know I was on this site almost 6 years ago. This is exactly my viewpoint and what she told me and what I knew the truth was by her saying this.

Now I know more about myself and stuff. But it's comforting to see that, to me, this is what it was from her side of the street (trust me I know I gotta keep my side of the street clean by learning about myself) and that someone else was literally battling with the same things that I was/am.

It doesn't take my role away so I can blame her. But theres a reality to this. How can, as the quote above says, anyone with a small inkling of self worth and insight not eventually give up? I know I did. I know early on I told her "I cant help bUT feel you think this will always be like a Disney romance" and "I feel like I can't be anything but funny and joyful around you 24/7"
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« Reply #94 on: July 26, 2017, 06:10:28 PM »

not a criteria, but the concept of "feelings = facts" is difficult for me with regard to anyone. i frankly struggle to see much of anything in black and white, including my own values. if you ask me if im a "glass half full" or "glass half empty" person ill roll my eyes at you and tell you it depends on whether im drinking or pouring 

during the relationship, it was the jealousy, and how she could be so certain and smug about things she made up in her own mind. i cant think of a single time i ever handled it well, and just as well, id prefer not to.



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« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2017, 12:01:00 PM »

The impulsivity of dumping me so coldly, usually via text or phone. Once he did this, so I went to see him and he said let him sleep on it as most likely he would
Change his mind sure enough he did and we were back together.

I'm confused though with how he took out a RO on me yet refused to leave his mail route, meaning I've had to see him for the last four months,,now the RO is lifted and I have to pretend he's a ghost ... .no closure, not even a hey wasn't that crazy last four months... nothing from him. And in court he wanted it all dropped as once again I guess his impulse got the RO he had his atty tell me he felt terrible for the break up and only did so as he suffers from low self esteem (I assume his new therapist had told him that)

He seemed to understand all I was going thru in my life, yet did one of the worst things possible to someone that meant him no harm
And to refuse to leave a route and let me heal is the most hurtful.
To him I don't exist
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« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2017, 06:54:15 AM »

Black and white thinking - I don't understand how I can be amazing and the best friend she's ever had one second and then be blocked on everything a day or two later. 

Lack of responsibility - No apologies, always playing the victim.  Of course, this is paired with an inability to understand how her actions affect others.

Rapidly changing emotions - As someone else mentioned, it's excruciating when they just block us and refuse to speak to us for days, weeks, or months.  And then, all of the sudden, they come back, like nothing happened, which leads me to my next point... .

Inability to maintain a mature, adult relationship - This applies to friends, lovers, family.  The only time she gets along with anyone is when it's just a surface relationship.  I'm almost 32, I've known her for three years, and I've seen her at her very worst.  Despite all of this, our conversations don't get any deeper than talking about TV shows and Pokémon.  And as was previously summarized so well by another user 6 years ago, they just can't do all of the "nuts and bolts" of a relationship.  I watch her with all of her boyfriends, and everything is sunshine and rainbows and Disney for the first few months, but when it starts to get serious, she can't handle it.  She can't handle when someone else talks about emotions or when someone wants to discuss something she said or did that was hurtful.  She gets defensive or blocks the person. 

Emotional immaturity - My BPD friend sobbed last summer when her boyfriend at the time bought her a makeup kit that she really wanted.  That's great that he bought her that, but it just reminded me of a child.  She once lived with a guy who didn't make her pay rent because she was looking for a job at the time.  She wasn't grateful to him.  In fact, she just kept borrowing money from him.  But if he bought her a milkshake on his way home from work, it was just the best thing ever. 

Fleeting moments of clarity - This is the worst one of all.  Back in 2011, someone else brought this up.  Two weeks ago, my BPD friend sent me 15 texts, about how she knows she hurt me and should spend every day apologizing, how she wants me to speak freely, how she wants us to better understand each other.  I waited until the next day to reply, and it was like the texts she sent the day before had never happened.  She was defensive and even said, "Then stop trying to be friends with me" when I spoke freely, like she told me I could.  By the next day, she was back to talking about Disney movies and sending me stupid pictures on Snapchat.  When I tried to talk about serious things again, she blocked me. 
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« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2017, 08:03:38 AM »

Inability to maintain a mature, adult relationship - This applies to friends, lovers, family.  The only time she gets along with anyone is when it's just a surface relationship.  I'm almost 32, I've known her for three years, and I've seen her at her very worst.  :)espite all of this, our conversations don't get any deeper than talking about TV shows and Pokémon.  And as was previously summarized so well by another user 6 years ago, they just can't do all of the "nuts and bolts" of a relationship.  I watch her with all of her boyfriends, and everything is sunshine and rainbows and Disney for the first few months, but when it starts to get serious, she can't handle it.  She can't handle when someone else talks about emotions or when someone wants to discuss something she said or did that was hurtful.  She gets defensive or blocks the person.  


This could be the most confusing for me as well. I remember just pleading with her when I voiced my concerns saying things like "If we talk about this we can learn from it and grow together." Literally begging for her to tell me what she was thinking and her emotions so I could try and understand her point of view and come to a compromise. I always told her "I feel you expect a relationship to be like Disney." She actually never told me she didn't.
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« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2017, 08:18:59 AM »

Fleeting moments of clarity - This is the worst one of all.  Back in 2011, someone else brought this up.  Two weeks ago, my BPD friend sent me 15 texts, about how she knows she hurt me and should spend every day apologizing, how she wants me to speak freely, how she wants us to better understand each other.  I waited until the next day to reply, and it was like the texts she sent the day before had never happened.  She was defensive and even said, "Then stop trying to be friends with me" when I spoke freely, like she told me I could.  By the next day, she was back to talking about Disney movies and sending me stupid pictures on Snapchat.  When I tried to talk about serious things again, she blocked me.  

I must agree that this was the most difficult for me personally.  My exBPDbf even wrote me a long list of things he loved about me which he insisted I keep always and refer to when he would say hurtful things and act out, as he didn't mean these things and this was how he truly felt about me.  So many times he'd talk about how he knew what he was saying when he was saying it, and knew that it was wrong but couldn't stop himself.  We'd talk about his treatment and he was so committed and motivated, recognising where he'd pushed back with the last therapist.  He'd come up with strategies to help himself cope with the dysregulation and make lists of these which he'd keep to hand.  Unfortunately he'd fail to implement them very consistently.  He was violent towards the end of the r/s and one day came home looking white as a sheet.  Turns out he'd researched that day all about domestic abuse and had realised that this was what he was subjecting me to.  He said the emotional outbursts alone were unacceptable and abusive and he was ashamed and sorry.  Immediately asked me to help him to get help and phoned the helpline for abusive men that I provided him straight away, securing a referral to a perpetrator programme.  These moments of clarity were the things that kept me going as long as I did.  There was a very good and rational person who was hurting and trapped behind the rages and destruction.  Very sad.

Love and light x
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