Help, I just got this letter from my stbxH mom

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

What do I do with this information? I still beilve he was BPD with his behavior! Do I respond? Do I believe her? I so don't need this! Korina is his T

Hello Jeni,

 

I hope you are well and some of life's bumps have been smoothed.

I am not writing to challenge, condone, defend or question why we are all where we are right now.

I am not writing to ask anything of you or try to change anything.

I am a bottom line person.  I always have been and I know it drives some people crazy but the truth is extremely important to me.  I have a tendency to sit back and watch life move, gather as much information as I can from everyone and then I take that information and try to figure out what that bottom line is. There will always be as many sides to a situation as there are people involved but there is usually only one true truth. Unfortunately, many times the truth can't be seen until much later.

 

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you did for Matthew during  the time that you were together.  Many of the results of those positive gifts from you are being seen in him today.  He was blessed to have you care in the way that you did.

 

Do you remember when we were sitting in the office with Korina and she asked me if the person sitting next to me was my son?  My response was , "NO".  I had no idea who that person was nor could I explain it at the time. I heard Korina talk about Bi-Polar and BPD.  She stated during that meeting that Matthew suffered from both and that the meds prescribed were to treat the Bi-Polar.  You believed that marriage was what brought out the BPD in him and felt responsible.

 

I have done lots of research work and have been in on sessions with both Korina and the psychiatrist.  I want to share this information with you so that you also understand why what happened, happened.  You did so many wonderful things for Matthew, I want you to know that it was a matter of horrible situations that put the two of you in such an unhealthy position. The most important is the issue of the medications that Matthew was being treated with, the contraindications of those medications together and the way in which he  took them.

 

Several weeks before you and Matthew parted he had taken himself off all of his medications because he knew that what was going on inside of him was destructive.  A good majority of the time that he was on all of those prescribed drugs he has no recollection of. The doctors that he has spoken to since stopping the meds have indicated that he is lucky to be alive.  Simply put, he was over medicated and some of the medications taken together actually exacerbated the symptoms.

 

It has been 2 months now and most if not all of those drugs have left his system.  He has not replaced them with any other medications and to date is doing well.  His memory and rationale has returned. He certainly has lots on his plate and stress still exists but he is dealing with everything in a calmer and clearer mind.  He is the Matthew that I knew.

 

In terms of Korina,  she has changed his diagnosis.  Based on his therapy and the non use of medications she has knowledge that she didn't have in the beginning of his treatment.  She does not believe him to be Bi-Polar, but does believe that the rages that he has had since adolescence are a type of manic episode.  She is working with him to learn  coping skills.  In terms of BPD, neither she nor Dr. Tilkin believe that diagnosis was accurate.

Unfortunately, the medications prescribed to help Matthew were actually the cause of his spiraling out of control.

 

I know that the pain and frustration of all that you went through were devastating but I hope that this new information helps to understand why it all happened.

 

I miss you and will always hold you close to my heart.  I wish for you peace and fulfillment in wherever your journey takes you.  My door is always open.

 

Fondly,

Laurie

[shelldancer]

What do I do with this information? I still beilve he was BPD with his behavior! Do I respond? Do I believe her? I so don't need this! Korina is his T

Hello Jeni,

 

I hope you are well and some of life's bumps have been smoothed.

I am not writing to challenge, condone, defend or question why we are all where we are right now.

I am not writing to ask anything of you or try to change anything.

I am a bottom line person.  I always have been and I know it drives some people crazy but the truth is extremely important to me.  I have a tendency to sit back and watch life move, gather as much information as I can from everyone and then I take that information and try to figure out what that bottom line is. There will always be as many sides to a situation as there are people involved but there is usually only one true truth. Unfortunately, many times the truth can't be seen until much later.

 

I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all that you did for Matthew during  the time that you were together.  Many of the results of those positive gifts from you are being seen in him today.  He was blessed to have you care in the way that you did.

 

Do you remember when we were sitting in the office with Korina and she asked me if the person sitting next to me was my son?  My response was , "NO".  I had no idea who that person was nor could I explain it at the time. I heard Korina talk about Bi-Polar and BPD.  She stated during that meeting that Matthew suffered from both and that the meds prescribed were to treat the Bi-Polar.  You believed that marriage was what brought out the BPD in him and felt responsible.

 

I have done lots of research work and have been in on sessions with both Korina and the psychiatrist.  I want to share this information with you so that you also understand why what happened, happened.  You did so many wonderful things for Matthew, I want you to know that it was a matter of horrible situations that put the two of you in such an unhealthy position. The most important is the issue of the medications that Matthew was being treated with, the contraindications of those medications together and the way in which he  took them.

 

Several weeks before you and Matthew parted he had taken himself off all of his medications because he knew that what was going on inside of him was destructive.  A good majority of the time that he was on all of those prescribed drugs he has no recollection of. The doctors that he has spoken to since stopping the meds have indicated that he is lucky to be alive.  Simply put, he was over medicated and some of the medications taken together actually exacerbated the symptoms.

 

It has been 2 months now and most if not all of those drugs have left his system.  He has not replaced them with any other medications and to date is doing well.  His memory and rationale has returned. He certainly has lots on his plate and stress still exists but he is dealing with everything in a calmer and clearer mind.  He is the Matthew that I knew.

 

In terms of Korina,  she has changed his diagnosis.  Based on his therapy and the non use of medications she has knowledge that she didn't have in the beginning of his treatment.  She does not believe him to be Bi-Polar, but does believe that the rages that he has had since adolescence are a type of manic episode.  She is working with him to learn  coping skills.  In terms of BPD, neither she nor Dr. Tilkin believe that diagnosis was accurate.

Unfortunately, the medications prescribed to help Matthew were actually the cause of his spiraling out of control.

 

I know that the pain and frustration of all that you went through were devastating but I hope that this new information helps to understand why it all happened.

 

I miss you and will always hold you close to my heart.  I wish for you peace and fulfillment in wherever your journey takes you.  My door is always open.

 

Fondly,

Laurie

[shelldancer]

Is this a harsh response?

Korina made it very clear that she never though Matt had bi polar and told me  that he had BPD.  I still see the signs of BPD when I see him and talk to him. No one knows what I went through dealing with him and even my therapist who is very experienced in BPD believes Matt suffers from that.  People with BPD are master manipulators and no matter what anyone says I will never believe otherwise. If you've read BPD books many of them state that the only people who see the " BPD " are the spouses, which is why it is so hard to diagnose. Wether it is BPD or not isn't that point, I was physical abused on many occasions and verbally abused daily. It was not the medications and I believe Matt is using that as an excuse.  There were many signs before the medications, the rages were before the medications.  I don't want to hear any excuses for Matt's behavior, because it just feels like a huge guilt trip and I'm sick of people making excuses for him.  This is yet another example of how Matt is not taking responsibilty for his actions and is just blamin it on the medications



 

 

[realityhurts]

Shelldancer,

It looks, to me, like a genuine message of regret from someone who actually thinks you're kind of ace.

There's a bit of triangulation (read definition) in there with an inferred hope

"In terms of Korina,  she has changed his diagnosis.  Based on his therapy and the non use of medications she has knowledge that she didn't have in the beginning of his treatment.  She does not believe him to be Bi-Polar, but does believe that the rages that he has had since adolescence are a type of manic episode.  She is working with him to learn  coping skills.  In terms of BPD, neither she nor Dr. Tilkin believe that diagnosis was accurate.

Unfortunately, the medications prescribed to help Matthew were actually the cause of his spiraling out of control."

How are you doing?

Maybe you need to block his mum purely to protect yourself. I don't know.

It maybe bottom line but it's also emotional, and that isn't objective.

How are you doing?

[shelldancer]

I am doing fine and I am over him. That email made me soo ma becuase I think he is manipulating them all! And I think she's making an excuse for him just like always!

[realityhurts]

Hi,

It's great you're doing well, I'm not so sure your ex is to blame for this. Take it at face value, your STBX mum in law likes you and is trying (desperately and maybe unconsciously) to maniplate the situation... Anyway, it's an endorsement of you, I think that's a plus.

She'll always make excuses for him. That's her job, to some extent.

If you're over it then that's brilliant   

[shelldancer]

so should I not respond? I'm not sure how to Handel this? I am angry that she wrote me that email, I feel like she is telling me that I shouldn't have left or something ? Idk but I definately got upset reading that email. Its not ok how he treated me and I don't think it's the meds.  I'm also sick in bed with shingles right now- ugh maybe I'm just being over emotional?

[Suzn]

I am doing fine and I am over him. That email made me soo ma becuase I think he is manipulating them all! And I think she's making an excuse for him just like always!

Hi shelldancer,

  I'm sorry your so upset right now. Totally understand being angry watching the manipulation. And your probably right on both counts. He may have them all fooled... .but not you. You know the truth, you lived it. Responding to her email will only prolong how you are feeling right now and most likely she will email back... .the cycle continues. You have the power to put an end to it that cycle right now.  

Take good care  

[realityhurts]

I am doing fine and I am over him. That email made me soo ma becuase I think he is manipulating them all! And I think she's making an excuse for him just like always!

Hi shelldancer,

  I'm sorry your so upset right now. Totally understand being angry watching the manipulation. And your probably right on both counts. He may have them all fooled... .but not you. You know the truth, you lived it. Responding to her email will only prolong how you are feeling right now and most likely she will email back... .the cycle continues. You have the power to put an end to it that cycle right now.  

Take good care  

I wanted to echo this, you know what to do... .Stick with it...    

[shelldancer]

Suzn:

You are right. I have this impulse to respond and tell her she's wrong, but what's that's going to do? Nothing. I somehow want to defend my truth to her.  I know my truth and that is going to have to be enough. You are right I need to break this cycle.

[Lady31]

Shelldancer,

Mine definitely has my MIL hood winked!  She has no idea who he really is.  She had to live with us for a short time when she lost her job and was really taken a back, but she blamed stress for his behavior.  After all, she is his mother.  UGH.

I think others are right.  It sounds like she does really care for you.  Not sure.  Some people are really twisted, so it could also be some sick way of her getting back at you while cloaked in kindness because she wants you to be the one at fault.

You could not respond, as others have suggested.

Or you could send a short message saying something to the effect that:

"I do want to thank you for your email as it does convey your care and concern for me.  I respect completely the position you are in and the fact that Mathew is your son, and that this is your belief on this particular matter.  I myself have a different view point, that is based on different events (doesn't really matter what it is "labeled" for me) that occured at different intervals through out the relationship.  Before medication and while on medication.  I do not believe it necessary or beneficial to hash these out with you, argue our different points of view, or air any other dirty laundry between Mathew and I, as I am sure you agree and understand.  While we may not see eye to eye, I still love you dearly.  I know your intentions are good, and again I do appreciate your love and concern."

[shelldancer]

Thanks guys.  I havent decided one way or the other if I'm going to respond or not.  Im really trying to figure out why that email bothers me so much?  Is it becuase the label is so important to me?  Maybe it's my own guilt getting to me?  Since the email I find myself asking " what would have happened if I stayed ? Should I have stayed? Was it really just the meds?" Ugh, i feel like I took so many steps backwards in a way. I am back to being ANGRY! I feel like she invaded my "space" or something.  I know it's just an email but it really makes me mad.  She is a huge  know it all and always thinks her way is the best.  I think his "change" since I left was becuase I was gone, I (the relationship) was his trigger and now that his trigger is gone he is better- right?  All this medications blame pisses me off. He was off his meds for 3 weeks and was still disregulated untill the day I left.  So in my eyes it was not the meds.  I think maybe I'll let my emotions calm down before I consider writing her back.

[shelldancer]

OK, so I haven't sent this yet, but I felt I at least needed to write what I wanted to say to vent my feelings and ill decide whether to send it or not later... .Just looking for some feedback.  Lady, I took some lines from your email thanks.

I do want to thank you for your email as it does convey your care and concern for me.  I respect completely the position you are in and the fact that Matt is your son, and that this is your belief on this particular matter. I have been very well since i left the manipulation and the abuse of the relatiosnhip.  I have never been confused on why everything happened, I just didn't have a loud enough voice to speak the truth. I myself have a different view point, that is based on different events that occurred at different intervals through out the relationship.  Korina made it clear from day one that she did not think Matt had bi-polar and made it a point to tell both Matt and I that she disagreed with Dr. Tylkin on that point.  I have never felt responsible for his BPD.  As a person who surfers from BPD any close relationship will trigger his BPD, which is why korina said that the marriage ( not ME) brought this out in him.  It has always been in Matt it just comes out even more during relationships, and the fact he was married brought it out ten fold.  His BPD behavior started before the medications. Other than klonapin Matt was not on any medications untill AFTER the psych ward.  So what was the explanation of his behaviors prior to the psych ward?-It's clearly not the medications that was the problem.   Matt never took his medications correctly and often skipped his meds.  The medications he was on were all prescribed by dr tylkin other than his morphine for pain.  Both Dr. tylkin and Dr olsen knew the medications he was on so whoever said "he is lucky to be alive" is being a bit over dramatic. Was matt over medicated at times? Yes, becuase he purposely would take too much medication and abuse them as he is an addict.  His words not mine.  I really beilve that Matt is manipulating you and korina to think it was just the medications, as he still shows BPD behavior when he talks to me or when I see him.  Matt was off medications for 3 weeks prior to him choking me and was dysregulated up untill I left.  Based on the MANY events during our relationship, the extent of research I have done, the dozens of books I have read, the long conversations with my therpaist as well as conversations with other spouses who have delt with BPD, I still believe matt has BPD. I do not believe it necessary or beneficial to hash these events out with you, argue our different points of view, or air any other dirty laundry between Matt and I, as I am sure you agree and understand.  Just know that his BPD goes way beyond the rages.  Blaming the medications is just another way that matt isn't taking responsibility for his actions, what people with BPD will always do.  So I am going to agree to disagree with you as no one will ever know what I went through with him.  You are right, the truth is important and I believe that the truth is that matt has BPD.  Like I tell Matt whenever we talk and whenever I see him, I wish nothing but the best for him and hope he can find recovery.

[juner]

hi shelldancer,

Just my two cents worth... .maybe this is an opportunity to free yourself of any need to justify or explain anything to this woman. How about keeping it short and sweet? I'm reminded of tricky emails I get at work. Best practice there is to just say thanks and leave out what you really want to say. With any exchange that may be tainted with dysfunction, avoid JADE: justify, argue, defend and explain. You owe her absolutely nothing. Also, if she's clinging to her version of things, that's her side of the sidewalk. Not up to you to clean it up.

Short version:

Laurie,

Thanks for your note, and much peace and happiness to you, too.

Jeni

Longer version:

Dear Laurie,

I do want to thank you for your email as it does convey your care and concern for me. I respect completely the position you are in and the fact that Matt is your son, and that this is your belief on this particular matter. I have been very well since I left the relationship and I continue to heal from it. Take care,

Jeni

[oceanblue]

Shelldancer,

I think you have already asked yourself the important questions - and you seem to be in a great space!

I am not sure you have much to gain from responding.  You could give Juner's response - but, again, I am not sure you would gain from it. 

If you had made the decision to move on - then stick to your decision.  Matthew's mom seems to be manipulating the situation and trying to pull you back.  I don't blame her - she is very complementary about you and you probably were great for her son - stability for his mental illness.  Still, what would an on-going dialog with his mom accomplish?  It would only keep you anchored to a situation not good for you. 

My thought is to type everything you feel like - then delete it.  Personally, I find this process cathartic in many situations because it lets me process my emotions.   When I read it a couple of days later - I have much more clarity and never hit send.  You could journal, write letters, get it out of your system.  In journaling , you may find the items that triggered you.  But I would not pass anything on to your ex's family.

[Suzn]

   I agree ith oceanblue SD. It's hard to feel like you don't get to have your "say" or to feel you are not allowed to "take a stand". But in not responding you are "taking a stand". You are standing for you knowing what this is, what this email "is" and now, knowing, what you are doing is to take care of you. I've struggled with desperately feeling I wanted to tell EVERYBODY involved that this isn't ME! But you already know his illness is his. And bless his mom for now having to be "the one" to deal with it. He's not happy and she's struggling to fix it. You have been the fix. I'm only assuming here but when he's with you she can go on with her life and pretend in her mind he's fine. My exs mom begged me to take her back at one point... .it was once when she wasn't blaming me for her daughters messes.

This is your recovery, you have the choice of how you are going to handle it.

Hugs   

[newlife3]

 Do what feels right for you... Take some time to consider your options and stay true to your own experience.

Your ex's mum was validating to you, and naturally cares about her son so has a vested position. Regardless of his diagnosis, you know that you experienced abuse and the r/s needed to end.

Take care

[2010]

Shelldancer,  

You are dealing with an autarkic family leader that utilizes a box of band-aids for a gaping wound. Do not respond. Any communication you make at this point will not be heard.  Your Husband and his Mother are enmeshed in dysfunction and denial.

She is pulling an “Alexander Haig” (I am in control now) when she has absolutely no right to take on the task.  The task of who is still in charge belongs to your Husband.  You see, this wasn’t about you- it’s about cleaning up a mess. Your Mother in law is a huuuuuuge part of your Husband’s problem in that she demands a quick fix. She’s found it- and it’s an easy solution. But guess what- the drugs are just the tip of the iceberg on this.

She does not believe him to be Bi-Polar, but does believe that the rages that he has had since adolescence are a type of manic episode.

Many Parent controllers/enablers are so confounded by their denial (of past issues) that they're unable to recognize any ~patterns~ of the past issues. Her denial is so deep that she cannot even see the acting out behavior as *appropriate* for the disorder.  

Dysfunctional families cannot see “the rages that he has had since adolescence are a type of manic episode” as choices that are made due to failed efforts to expand and grow. Enablers who push forward in fixing something that they perceive is the cause may very well have reasons to take the focus off of resolving their own issues- and prevent family secrets from being uncovered.

Do you remember when we were sitting in the office with Korina and she asked me if the person sitting next to me was my son?  My response was , "NO".  I had no idea who that person was nor could I explain it at the time.

Her dismissal of any pattern of behavior (i.e., reality) with *here-and-now* strategies is self-protective. Your Husband reflects back to her- her own mirror of worthiness as a Mother and in her mind it’s not because of his dysfunctional childhood. It’s not because of behavioral issues in adolescence. It’s not because his Father was an Alcoholic (And not because of her enmeshment and over protection.)  Never mind about all those adolescent rages he had - she wants to attribute the behavior to *here-and-now* quick fixes. Over medication- It was simply a matter of dosage = problem solved!

It’s just pharmaceuticals.

It is simply due to over-medication.

This must give you great hope and some guilt that you overestimated a personality disorder.

HERE'S WHY HER LETTER IS MANIPULATIVE:

Her denial of childhood patterns now comes with a dual edged sword for you. Her denial that this is a deeper, more psychologically based problem implies that his behavior is just *circumstantial.* That’s right, circumstances change. Under the circumstances, if he becomes clean and sober and stops the drugs- he will once again become normal.  She has implied this much in her letter- and this is very manipulative of your hope and heartstrings.

Her denial gives you hope -but _don’t _let _it.  Her door is "always open"- as long as you join her in a one-down position and enable her denial.

What if you witness the same behavior (minus the drugs?)- that’s called reality testing- and your Mother in law would rather dance around the fantasy that there isn't something psychologically deeper going on here.

You wrote on Aug. 1st:

My Husband ( pwBPD) therapist told him and I to read Emotional Sobriety by Tian Dayton.  Has anyone read this book? Thoughts?

www.tiandayton.com/emotional-sobriety/

An excerpt from the book:

How We Learn Self Regulation as Kids

As children, we are entirely dependent on adults around us for our survival. Because of this, because they have such power over our well being, what goes on in those primary relationships affects us a deep level, at that survival level. Who am I? Do I please people? Am I loved, safe? Do I have a place in the world? These are the kinds of fundamental issues that are part of early life.

Much of our brain development as children occurs outside the womb. This incomplete brain development of the child makes us vulnerable and dependent for much of our childhoods on the adults that surround us.

A barking dog, fireworks, or a thunderstorm can terrify a child. The child is completely dependent on their parent to act as an external regulator because their internal regulators won’t be fully developed till they are around twelve or so. The child looks to the parent to learn whether or not they should be scared and how scared they may need to be.

This is why the small child is so vulnerable to emotional and psychological damage when the home is chaotic. Not only is what’s going on frightening them and throwing them out of balance, but, if the parent is the scary person, the child loses access to their source of comfort and regulation. They’re scared and no one is telling them it’s ok, cuddling them and reassuring them that life will soon return to normal or that they will not, in any case, be abandoned to manage all by themselves. It is this vulnerability that can put a child at risk if they live in a chaotic home.

Shelldancer- your Husband’s therapist has an idea here- and has recommended a book –that chaotic behaviors are due to the failure to learn adequate self regulation in childhood.  If this book has a truth- it's not one that your Mother in law believes in. But if we are to be honest- the drugs *were* just the tip of the iceberg.

Looking back to when you married into this family can give you a lovely reminiscence but it creates an unrealistic comparison to the present.  You wanted trust. You wanted a voice and you wanted to be valued and to be heard. These ideals need reality testing.

The early part of your relationship where you believed you were going to have these ideals cannot be resurrected. They derived from a different time and emotional set- one where you trusted that he could be trusted and their family could be trusted. But you see; family secrets are kept safe by denial. You’ve challenged this, but you’re not going to get through the Wall your Mother in law has built and access her shame- you can only take care of your own guilt that came in the aftermath of reality testing that somehow you are a part of your Husband’s problems. Those problems appear to have been in existence well before you came onto the scene.  

What needs to be worked on now is improving your current circumstances, changing what you can about your own belief that you are wrong or you need to do more and accepting what cannot be altered- their denial and enmeshment as a family.

I know it hurts but it’s time to let go of the hope and accept the certainty that nothing has changed in their family system. That's your truth. Be kind to yourself and let go with understanding that you've done all that you can.  

[shelldancer]

2010-

Wow, thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking time to write such an insightful post. Your post makes so much sense! I just keep re-reading it an I find validation in it. .  I value everyone's post, but 2010 your explanation really clicked with me and has brought me so much insight.  I think I'll take the advice of journaling and re-reading the email I wrote ( but didnt send) and I'm sure I'll feel better in a few days.

[shelldancer]

side tangent... .What do you mean by there is no such thing as a non?

[OnceConfused]

I have the feeling that the Mom is trying to (1) pull you back w guilt, (2) blame on the lack of medicine, and (3) Matt is not at fault and thus he needs not change from inside just give him the drugs and he will be a wonderful husband.

It is up to you to respond if you feel the mother has always been kind to you, so to respond to her ever kindness, you can simply send a short email like others have suggested here:

Dear xxx,

Thank you so much for your email and I appreciate you taking time to write.

Whatever happened, happened and now it is time for Matt and I to move on in your separate journey.

Thanks again.

[OTH]

side tangent... .What do you mean by there is no such thing as a non?

We all suffer from some degree of dysfunction. People who become enmeshed with BPDs usually have their own problems. BPDs are significantly emotionally impaired. We are hurt on a lesser level. The difference between codependencey and BPD for example. Generally ours came later in life when our emotions were more developed so we function better.

The key is letting go of this painful past and turning your energy to yourself. Finding your own weaknesses and overcoming them. Your BPD partner had obvious issues you couldn't get them to face. Your issues are more subtle but you would be less inclined to ignore them.  Seek them out. You would most likely resolve to get beyond them if you found out what they are.

This path is where your best future lies. Your ex and his mom is just more pain and misery. Turn towards you. It is a brighter future.  

best regards,

OTH  

[Alvino]

Hi Shelldancer,

I'm not surprised you felt a bit thrown back by the e-mail. Part of what makes a relationship with a pwBPD so hard and emotionally and physically exhausting is the endless struggle over who defines our "reality".

As social psychologists say: "reality is a social construct" - that is: Reality is something that people (a family, group, tribe, country... .) agree upon.

While written in a nice and caring tone, and perhaps without any bad intention on her part, the e-mail by his mom actually is a full frontal assault on your reality. She is "offering" her reality (likely her son's reality) that he was a) misdiagnosed b) not at fault because he was overmedicated c) is much better now.

It is understandable that you feel that you have to shout back at her - because you feel that if you let her "suggested" reality stand without contradicting it, you somehow implicitly accept it.

So your desire to set her straight is very understandable.

But I agree with those that say: If you respond at all, keep it short and sweet (Just 1 sentence, basically "thanks for sharing, take care." or "thanks for sharing - I have come to different conclusions. Take care" and don't enter the "whose reality is right?" discussion. At the end of the movie "War Games", the computer simulates all sorts of outcome scenarios of nuclear attacks and retaliations and after a while comes to the conclusion "This is a strange game... .the only winning move is NOT to play".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo

This is a sentence I put next to my mirror so I would see it every morning and resist the urge to set my exBPDgf straight, when she periodically contacted me after I kicked her out.

You cannot win this game - you know that you are right. We know that you are right. By reengaging, I sincerely doubt there is any chance for the satisfaction of having his mom or him acknowledge that you are right. Instead they will just draw you back into their skewed world. Be glad you are out and let them live in their delusion.

Peace,

Alvino   

[oceanblue]

Alvino - that explanation was very eloquent.  I struggled with this for a long time.  My BPDbf would say things that are, to me and probably most of the world, completely delusional.  I would get stuck trying to set the record straight and that would cause a lot of the fighting - my role was that I wanted him in MY reality - that was my controlling behavior. 

What I have come to learn, like you said, are that there are many realities colored by our own fears and filters. These are the projections we live our life in.    From my own personal experience, the more highly emotional I become, the more my filter controls my reality.

Trying to convince someone who may be in denial or is emotional of your reality is difficult at best and usually impossible.  I'm learning that it is emotional and physical energy best spent elsewhere.  As you say, the only winning move is not to play.

[shelldancer]

That's something I need to work on, I still have the urge to argue our "realities". Im really still struggling with that.  I read the email that I wrote, but haven't sent yet, and each time I read it I STILL want to send it!.  I really thought I would read it, validate myself, and then the urge to send it would dissapear.  I definately need to work on being ok with them not agreeing with my reality and eventually completely disengage when this divorce is final. Its only been about 1 1/2 months since I leff, I know this is a journey for my recovery - I get now what you mean by there is no such thing as a "non".  Slowly but surely I will be OK with not having to defend and prove my reality.  My head says dont defend, but my emotions still say defend your reality, prove you are right.  I look up to you all who have come to peace fully with your reality and not feel the urge to prove your reality to others.

[oceanblue]

It took a loong time (and therapy) and I still have urges.  I suspect they may never go away because it is part of my personality.  What I can change is whether I act on my urges.

When I get involved with difficult people, I always ask myself - what do I expect to get out of this exchange?  If the answer is - I want to change the other person's mind about something - I try to stop. It's one thing if the other person sincerely WANTs to know your point of view but trying to push it on someone else can be viewed as controlling.

SD - take your time about everything.  As you get distance from the relationship - it will become clearer to you.     

[Alvino]

Hi Shelldancer,

if you want to "see" those who no longer feel the urge to shove reality in our exBPDs faces, no need to "look up", just "look forward" ;-)

1.5 months is nothing - at that point I was still fully confused and hiding from the world inside my shell.

Your buttons are likely still too raw and irritated from the previous abuses, and your blossoming sense of your own reality is reacting strongly to further attempts to push it back.

Please go easy on yourself, you're just walking out of a battlefield, still shell-shocked. Don't expect yourself to be totally unaffected by this, just because your brain knows what you should do/feel. If the urge to send "something" is just too great, why not opt for the short "thanks, I have my own perspective on this, take care" type of answer?

All the best,

Alvino    


PS: Just an idea: perhaps having a look at some optical illusions can help get over the idea of one "objective" reality... .and illustrate the futility of arguing right or wrong. E.g. first have a look at this image:

www.scientificpsychic.com/graphics/shadow.jpg

If I were to ask you if the squares titled "A" and "B" were the same shade of gray, you would probably tell me to go see an optician, because the question seems so absurd in face of obvious evidence to the contrary.

Now, please have a look at this image:

www.scientificpsychic.com/graphics/shadow.jpg

Now - and only because of the two grey lines that act as a visual guide - can your mind deduce that they must be the same shade of grey. But if you look at the image on the left, everything in your body screams "different shades of gray" at your mind, to the point where you may doubt if the "B" square on the right hand image is actually the same color as the B square on the left (it is.)

The reason you perceive the "B" square as lighter than the "A" square is due to a number of factors: a) the shadow cast on the board (our perception "knows" how shadows work, so it adjusts our perceived color to compensate for the shadow), b) we know that chess boards alternate between light and dark squares and c) an area surrounded by darker areas appears lighter than it is and an area surrounded by lighter areas appears darker than it is.

Now imagine that your ex'es mother only has access to the left picture. Only you also have access to the picture with the two supporting gray lines on the right, and there is no way to send your ex's mom your picture, you can only try to explain it to her on the phone.

Even if she wanted to believe you - do you think you could make her see what you see? Do you think she *could* believe you if you said the two squares are the same color? Would you believe it if you didn't have the privilege of the extra insight on the right image? She sees a different reality from what you see... .and explaining your reality to her rationally would probably be met with limited success through no fault of either you or her.

Take your time and don't judge yourself too harshly. I wish you peace and remember: Each day is a victory! Took me 3 months to start crawling out of my coccoon - so I think you're doing just fine!