when we experience real care and love... do we recognize it?

[newworld]

recently my close friend from highschool and I got in touch. he found me.

He was in love with me in high school and he still is.

he is married, unhappily, with small kids, not planning on leaving, not planning on an affair.

He has helped me to do whatever I need to do with my pwbd. he has read the unsent letters, he has commented where I asked. He has come here to cook for me, sent me meals from a restaurant when he knew I couldn;t get out of bed.

He advises me if I ask what to do, and tells me how to get pwBPD back in my life, even if he doesn;t agree... .

he listens, he supports me, he is kind... .

His behavior is modeling for me, what it is to love someone, even if we can;t have them the way we want to.

he is modeling for me that I can be in a relationship with someone who knows me well, all my terrible faults, and awful things and can still love me... .

Mt question is... .why has it taken me 20 years to "get it"?

And do we know good stuff when we see it/

Are we rejecting good care for a reason?

If so, what?

Are we even awrae of it?

that we deserve it?

Do we have people in our lives who really do this for us?

do we see them or think 'eh, it's not interesting?"

Just thoughts... .

[Gowest]

For me the issue was thinking that I didn't deserve anyone nice and if I tried to be with a good person he would find out how bad I was and leave. This was all unconscious though, I wouldn't have been able to put it into words. If I'd tried I might have said something like "boring" or "not interesting" but that wasn't it at all, that was just an excuse so I wouldn't have to think about the real reason - I believed I was inherently bad and that this reality couldn't be hidden from anyone for long.

[2010]

he is married, unhappily, with small kids, not planning on leaving, not planning on an affair.

Too late. He is unhappily married and not planning on leaving his Wife. In the meantime, he is having an affair with you. At least emotionally.

This is not love. It is need.  He has recycled you in order to rekindle the past while avoiding the future and to feel better about himself. You are vulnerable at the moment to his rescuing and are using him as a transitional object to avoid the pain of being alone after your break-up.

His Wife does not know. His small children do not know.

If a relationship has to be a secret, you probably shouldn't be in it. 

[newworld]

2010-  I have a lot of respect for you brother and get a lot out of your posts... .but man... .have you missed it on a lot of this... .and are right about some (yeah, it could turn into an emotional affair if it's not managed)

What makes you think his family doesn't know we are in contact?

Do you know enough about my relationship history, or my current circumstances, to assess whether or not I have a history of 'needing transitional objects to avoid the pain of being alone"?

I wonder how you apply this conclusion to me, specifically?

Or how you apply the "rescuer" conclusion without really knowing the past history between my friend and I or how long we have been in contact, or how long that level of care-taking went on before it stopped? Or if there was a legitimate need for it (like being actually sick) or not?

 

[newworld]

... .or what the arrangement in his marriage is... how they have decided to cope with a failed marriage with small children, or if she is not in the marriage anymore of her own choice... .

There is a lot to this that isn't in my post, so you couldn't know... .and that's why I say... .I have a lot of respect for what you have to say... in this particular case, it misses the mark in several places and doesn't really hit the theme of "the difference between people who have long standing care between them and relationships that do not-"

[hangintherebaby]

recently my close friend from highschool and I got in touch. he found me.

he was in love with me in high school and he still is.

 Danger, danger, danger. He is a married man.

He is married, unhappily, with small kids, not planning on leaving, not planning on an affair.

What are your boundaries regarding married men?

He has come here to cook for me,

I would be devistated, if my husband went to a woman's home and cooked for her, especially if she was an high school love and is still in love with her. That's a non negotiable boundary for me. Boyfriend and/or hubby shall not cook for other women in their home, ! That would not go over well with me at all.

Was his wife present at the time when he cooked for you?

Are you friends with the family?

Do you know his wife?

Does his wife know ya'll have this kind of relationship?

Do you know his children?

Do they have you over for dinner and you them?

Have you been brought into the family or are you a secret pal?

he is modeling for me that I can be in a relationship with someone who knows me well, all my terrible faults, and awful things and can still love me... .

Easy to do when you don't live with someone and you are not dating them.

 He is a married man, this is just not sitting well with me. I understand there are problems in his marriage. But, key word here, he is still a married man and it sounds like for life... .

And do we know good stuff when we see it.

What about this is good?

You are currently in an unhealthy relationship with pwbd, yes? Whether they are a boyfriend, friend, family member. This relationship is causing you much heart ache and grief it sounds like... .

You now have begun an emotionally charged relationship with someone that is married, yes?

From where I sit, and you are right, we don't have all the information. However, I see you being a part of two relationships, neither of which is allowing you to be totally intimate and close. Each relationship has strong barriers that are preventing you from being able to relate fully and healthily.

Could this possibly be what you want subconsciously?

Very good of you to reach out and begin sorting through.

I am most curious, however, if you are friends with the family.

Have you put yourself in his wife's and children's shoes.

If the roles were different and you were the wife in this situation... .

Would you like it if your husband had this kind of relationship with someone he still loves? Especially, if ya'll were having trouble in your marriage?

Just food for thought, without having all the info... .

You are asking yourself good questions, growing can be painful, but worth the hard work!

Best to you as you try to figure yourself out ;o)... .

[newworld]

No- my pwBPD and I broke up in August. i am not in two relationships, so everything you said after that doesn't apply or describe me.

i am pwBPD's neighbor and that's where the problem is. having contact and not and trying to manage the new situation and my feelings about it.  there is no NC here really. It's not possible as we live 100 feet away from one another.

My boundaries about married men are - no relationships with married men. His boundaries are no relationships outside of marriage. So we are all set.

And no, it is not emotionally charged.

we JUST reconnected. JUST a couple of weeks ago, so there has not been time to have a lot of gathering together 0 considering I had two pretty significant illness' to boot.

he found me in a heap after 20 years. neither of us could have predicted that. The circumstances happened to be what they were. he helped me out a few times. he listened to me, i listened to him- as friends. Then when I was not dying of the death flu and being made crazy by my x or having a medication interaction witch left me almost seizing, he stopped making me food. I am not sure how cooking for someone who can't get out of bed because of a flu is rescuing or bad boundaries- in the church, we call that charity and grace.

these are his wife's shoes: She is an alcoholic (blacked out drunk after massive rages and hurting herself by falling into things by 7 pm every night) who is likely BPD and she has left the marriage of her own volition. She stays because they agreed to stay until the children are a certain age.

I know this is the leaving board, but there are some people who sees things a little bit differently about staying for certain reasons which may not make sense here on leaving.

Not everyone sees things the same way.

i wonder why it is hard for you to imagine that two people who chose badly 20 years ago, might have a chance to redeem those choices, without anyone being hurt by it?  I am not sure why it is hard to understand that two people who were truly best friends for very complex and legitimate reasons can still be friends that way, because the foundation was actually real and based on important things that don;t change?

So guys, I did not post this to have the relationship picked apart. The theme of the post is different and I am not going to respond to other stuff after this. I have explained the situation as much as I am willing to put time into it. I do appreciate how it might look and maybe I didn't phrase my OP well, I was emotional and tired... .so I can understand the concerns... .but it's not what it might potentially look like.

My questioning is really about a different kind of experience than two idiots who are clinging onto each other in desperate times. It's about my internal experience through a REALIZATION I had about my own life, that was triggered by an unexpected friend walking into my life when I was very down, and receiving empathy when I had not for so long- it's not about the PERSON spekcifically - ie do we reject care from the heart over something else? Are we unable to 'see it" when it's genuine or detect the false stuff...

how unknown are we willing to be in our relationships? for what reasons?

all kinds of questions...

Is it 'too late' to find a good partner after the age of 21? Only because we bring baggage and people don;t really "know" us since we were kids?  

[newlife3]

 Hi N:

I was watching Oprah's life lessons show and as she says "when we know better we do better"... .We all evolve and grow at different rates... Our brains are hardwired for social connections with others so your need for a friendship is natural and healthy... Sounds like you are clear about your boundaries that this is a friendship and are learning about mutual care and respect...

The gift that can come out of a r/s with a BPD is finding out what makes us vulnerable to these r/s... and an opportunity to become healthier...

Often those early childhood experiences imprint on us a blueprint for future r/s as Gowest noted he didn't believe he deserved to be cared for and respected...

Good luck on sorting out your own puzzle...

[stillbreathing]

Hi Newworld,

Thanks for asking such a great thought provoking question in this post... .do we recognize real care and love?

   I recognize it in friendships and family and I recognize when it is not real in the same.

   I have recognized when it was not real in past romantic relationships. BUT, I did not recognize it as not real in the relationship with my exgfwBPD. In fact, I thought it was real.

[whitedoe]

he is married, unhappily, with small kids, not planning on leaving, not planning on an affair.

Too late. He is unhappily married and not planning on leaving his Wife. In the meantime, he is having an affair with you. At least emotionally.

This is not love. It is need.  He has recycled you in order to rekindle the past while avoiding the future and to feel better about himself. You are vulnerable at the moment to his rescuing and are using him as a transitional object to avoid the pain of being alone after your break-up.

His Wife does not know. His small children do not know.

If a relationship has to be a secret, you probably shouldn't be in it. 

OMG, I wish I had heard these words of wisdom 2 1/2 years ago when I first met my exBPD/NPDbf via an online dating site. He pursued me with such vigor but he was "separated" and not yet divorced. I believed all of his words and agreed to remain a "secret" for well over a year while he was working on his divorce. It was heart wrenching for me, so painful to be nothing more than a "voyeur", always looking in from the outside of his world.


I grew to know and truly adore his girls without ever being able to meet them (not for almost 1 1/2 yrs into our relationship). He never could "integrate" me into his world and that hurt me deeply. I felt like he was "ashamed" of me? I couldn't make sense out of a man who repeatedly told me how much he loved, adored, craved and lived to be with me... .yet couldn't seem to allow me into his world? Why the secrets? He had moved to his own apartment and told me that their separation with amicable. It just never made sense to me?

When he finally told his estranged wife, things were never the same... .He began "splitting me"... .His moods were "crazy" and he would blurt out such unfiltered cruel remarks to me. Yet, when we were together, he couldn't keep his hands off from me. The amazing love making added to my confusion, pain?

I was so happy, so excited to meld our lived together... .I loved him so deeply and never had any clue that I was "being played"... .I had never heard of BPD/NPD and couldn't have imagined the extend of his selfishness, lack of any empathy whatsoever... .

Then, after being devalued, dumped and replaced (within about 6-8 weeks?), I reached out these boards... .I was painfully but gratefully enlightened by 2010... .Triangulation (read definition)!

Yes, my ex was also in an "unhappy marriage"... .had been sleeping in separate bedrooms for years. Yet they were/are enmeshed... .When he dumped me on 14Feb2011, he was STILL not divorced? We were together a little over 2 years!

I filled his sexual needs and provided him with enormous love and support... .In return, I was idealized, devalued, dumped out of nowhere. It was always ALL ABOUT HIM. I was objectified and used, period. My heart was broken into pieces... .

Caution, Newworld! 

I know how wonderful it is to feel “connected”... .but I agree with 2010. You are vulnerable, dear friend... .Please guard your heart! If he decides to take action and divorce, then maybe there could be something there for you - BUT, he is married and you never want to be part of a triangle. It is the most painful ordeal to go through... .You deserve so much more... .

Keep posting! We are here for you!  

WhiteDoe

[newworld]

whitedoe, as I said, this is not a post about another person who doesn't have a big place in my life. Just someone who happened by who has cared about me for a long time, and helped out with an open heart - and is not part of the big picture -

I have been down the road you went down... i learnt that lesson already... boy oh boy did I learn it. In my case I was told the divorce was just waiting to be signed off on... .NEVER AGAIN.

It sucks doesn;t it?

So, what did we learn from this?

Marry only people we know their families for a long time?  I don;t think that really "solves" the problem... I know my family is creepy, and no one would know that from the outside...

[newworld]

Hi Newworld,

Thanks for asking such a great thought provoking question in this post... .do we recognize real care and love?

   I recognize it in friendships and family and I recognize when it is not real in the same.

   I have recognized when it was not real in past romantic relationships. BUT, I did not recognize it as not real in the relationship with my exgfwBPD. In fact, I thought it was real.

I think I might have the same problem... but I don;t know.

i think because of how I grew up, I really couldn;t trust it or "know' it - even if I recognized it - maybe I thought "but this couldn;t happen to me. It never does... ."

and I would run away?

I am not so sure i was able to really recognize it at all until my 30's... .and then I didn;t know what to do with it... .

I know I didn;t have much of it when I was young... but I am sure there were pieces... .and that's why maybe this friend is such an intersting lesson to me. he always cared about me, just as I was. And that hasn't changed. So what does that say about care and knowing people?

What does that tell me about my future prospects?

It tells me that there is hope there are people who understand "care" the same way I do - that it isn;t really conditional. maybe being around me is conditional, but the "care" isn;t. I still care that my x gets well. But he can;t be around me.

And this is something I struggle with - finding people who are loyal ... .

[newworld]

Hi N:

I was watching Oprah's life lessons show and as she says "when we know better we do better"... .We all evolve and grow at different rates... Our brains are hardwired for social connections with others so your need for a friendship is natural and healthy... Sounds like you are clear about your boundaries that this is a friendship and are learning about mutual care and respect...

The gift that can come out of a r/s with a BPD is finding out what makes us vulnerable to these r/s... and an opportunity to become healthier...

Often those early childhood experiences imprint on us a blueprint for future r/s as Gowest noted he didn't believe he deserved to be cared for and respected...

Good luck on sorting out your own puzzle...

For sure.

and today's puzzle is ... .'can I see the real deal and RECEIVE it"? or will I forever be a moron? 

[hangintherebaby]

Is it 'too late' to find a good partner after the age of 21? Only because we bring baggage and people don;t really "know" us since we were kids?  

I appreciate this question very much... .

Goodness gracious, I hope it's not too late after the age of 21 to attract a good partner and make the changes in myself so that I can be a better partner than I have been in the past, for I am 50 and the hope is still very much alive. LOL!

Also, I have changed since I was a kid, and in many ways for the better. But, am frequently working on myself. And know there is much room for improvement and growth.

For me, at my age, building a life with someone is now taking on a different face and meaning.

My daughter is grown, kids are no longer the center of my world accept in my work. Now, I have to truly relate, the hustle and bustle of life has settled a bit, therefore, more time to be in the relationship. Yikes!

Actually, it's a wonderful thought. Kinda the golden years to look forward to. And, with each relationship I learn a little bit more about myself and what I can and cannot handle. But, sometimes it aint easy... .

Newworld, I wanted to apologize if my questions and thoughts caused you any more emotional pain and frustration than you already have on your plate.

Truly not my intention... .

I wish you all the best in life, love and health!

Blessings and Peace... .

[newworld]

Newworld, I wanted to apologize if my questions and thoughts caused you any more emotional pain and frustration than you already have on your plate.

Truly not my intention... .

I wish you all the best in life, love and health!

Blessings and Peace... .

No sweat girl - I'm ok! 

i wish the same for you!

I have hope too... .I am just ... y'know the saying 'life is 90 % sweat and 10% luck'?  i am trying to up the chances of my being able to see 'luck" , through sweat!

Am am just so confounded by why it's so hard for me sometimes... .i know I look for people in the wrong places... and I have to stop that- and I make it harder for myself- i need to figure out 'why'?

[Clearmind]

Well, these are great questions and it has taken me 20 years of dating to get it too ~ my first 4 relationships were a mix of strong BPD traits and one NPD and the last BF….well! Good grief.

My childhood was dysfunctional ~ enabling mother and a uBPD father who is a raging, boundary busting alcoholic ~ outcome ~ I have a high tolerance for drama, unresolved abandonment issues from childhood, learnt enabling behaviour from my mum and a lack of self worth.

Coupled with my childhood stuff I chose men who were emotionally unavailable ~ the inevitable break down of each of these RS in my adult life fed my abandonment issues and I never fully resolved my own co-dependency issues. Instead it just compounded and I took all my baggage to the next RS to yet be faced with the same outcome ~ me being a fixer, enabling. The breakdown of the RS fed my own self fulfilling prophecy of not being worthy.

I dated men like my father! I thought it was all normal.

My high tolerance for drama has meant that when a really nice guy came along I thought “boring, this guy doesn’t need fixing”. With a healthy guy it would also mean intimacy and opening up. You cannot develop intimacy with a disordered person ~ great for me because I feared it and didn’t trust it.

So now, I have regained my self worth, would rather be single than go through another dysfunctional dance. I want a healthy man and I know I deserve it. Healthy men are not boring.

I have a healthy mutual trust and respect with all my friends. It was my romantic RS that suffered.

[newworld]

I wish I could say things as well as you can dollface!

I hear so much of my own life in what you wrote... .identical up to the point of choosing men like your dad.

i "chose my mother" -  am still , STILL apparently trying to resolve passive aggressive narc stuff from the past... .

I didn;t have the ability to trust with friends when I was younger - a few, very patient people took the time to get to know me under the crazy exterior and they are still with me - and I have made ammends! 

I'm glad you were able to not have it leak all over your life on the one hand, but it sucks it affected your romantic relationships... .

[whitedoe]

whitedoe, as I said, this is not a post about another person who doesn't have a big place in my life. Just someone who happened by who has cared about me for a long time, and helped out with an open heart - and is not part of the big picture -

I have been down the road you went down... i learnt that lesson already... boy oh boy did I learn it. In my case I was told the divorce was just waiting to be signed off on... .NEVER AGAIN.

It sucks doesn;t it?

So, what did we learn from this?

Marry only people we know their families for a long time?  I don;t think that really "solves" the problem... I know my family is creepy, and no one would know that from the outside...

Ohhh, Newworld... .I humbly apologize if I "jumped" to quickly and "assumed" something that isn't... .I am so glad to hear that you are keeping "mindful" and not becoming too emotionally invested with a man that is married... .Even if he is an old friend from long ago... .

Yes, I was fed the "lie" that my ex's divorce was going to be completed within a "few weeks" when we first met. I was so in love and trusted him completely... .He absolutley "gutted" me emotionally. So, perhaps I am now a little "over protective" of my bpdfamily.com community members! 

Again, I am sorry if I jumped not fully understanding your situation... .Thank you for your patience with me... .

WhiteDoe

[newworld]

No problem girl-

your words came from care and i understand that   

Boy I wish I knew what I know now before BPDx #!   

[MaybeSo]

I admit all my red flags went up reading your post, too. It sounded like triangulation (read definition) city. I then read your replies that we are missing the point of your question.  Which is:

When we experience real care and love, do we recognize it?

In responding to your question, i would say yes, due to old scripts etc., sometimes we don't notice real care and love when it's actually really available for us.

While at the same time easily seeing the potential for real love and caring in people who absolutely are not available to provide either, and then throwing ourselves into chasing the potential... .while safely avoiding real intimacy.

I think I've done that, I think with age and wisdom, I'm getting better.

[diotima]

Boy I wish I knew what I know now before BPDx #!     

Me too! I wonder if I would have dumped his a$$ sooner? I learned a fair amount during the four years I was with him but I don't think the full reality of it hit me until I finally had to admit it was hopeless.

Diotima

[newworld]

yes.

I was just writing to the friend who has seen all of this go down - he reminded me that it is better to know now than 6 months after being married.

My response to him was :

Yes. It IS much better that I know now. I know that too. It's not lost on me.

Reality is what reality is and I would rather know eatlier than later. That's a good thought to keep in my mind when I melt down like this.

The thing is - it sucks.

It's also a situation where I feel VERY out of control - because I am. I can;t control him or his mind (meaning the sick sht that goes on it it)

I am also deeply dissapoitned in myself and I feel humiliated that I saw tons of warning signs and didn;t say anything, didn;t leave when I knew I should have.

Had I said "no" to his asking for another change the first time we broke up - and I knew I should have- this wouldn;t be as bad.  It also would have told him that he can;t disrespect me.

Without going into the whole things now... .I knew then that if I stayed, this was going to happen. I knew Jeremy and I didn;t protect myself.

I knew many times and I was so frozen that I couldn;t protect myself.

That also makes me feel very out of control because if I can;t protect myself or control myself, who can?

I am deeply sad at my own behavior, and that's part of the problem.

I let this person walk over me and just froze.  I am so ashamed.

[Clearmind]

Newworld, I had all these same thoughts as you just described. My rs was taken to the nth degree because I didn't get out either which also means I saw plenty.

[newworld]

Cm,

How do I deal with this?

I can talk all day long about what he did that was not right - and it wasn;t right-

But you know how that goes - the more we focus on that, the more out of control we feel.

I am having another bad few days - dishes piling up and not caring kinds of days - I know it's a phase... and it will pass-

So, I focus on what my role was and i want to kick myself.

Because we live next door to eachother, something has to be done to release the tension here- and I know that talking to him like an adult is only opening myself up to more hurt, but I also know that standing up for myself can help both of us.

I can help myself by saying what needs to be said without him understanding, or can I?

will that only make it worse?

If I see his head over the hedges when he walks by, I start to get sick - how will talking to him make me less sick?

So, what can I do?

I feel so ... .helpless to help myself and it's fostering depression... .

I know that I see my freezing problem much more clearly and I am at the point of building a skill set for it... .i will likely do better in the next situation... .but for now, I just feel so ... .ashamed... .'if I had stood up for myself, he wouldn;t have pushed me so far, I wouldn;t feel so badly"

But I did stand up for myself and he pushed back... .he wasn;t going to listen... .and he said as much... .why did I staick around for that/

In the beginning of the relatinship he loved how I could stand up to him 0 his words- and that was simply me saying over a great lunch (there were no problems yet) having fun "I really want to hear what you are saying, but I haven;t eaten yet, so my blood glucose is a little low and it's hard for me to focus. Can you hold the stpory for a couple of minutes until I get some food in? That way I can hear you. "

and then he ghave me permission a few days later to "tell him what to do because we have a committed relationship"

and then when I did stand up for myself when it was important (and gently), he wouldn;t litsten.

[Clearmind]

NW,

Living next door is so not easy on you NW. I would need to move!

Pick out 5 things he did that were truly disturbing and pull on them when you start to ruminate. Read over them. This helped me to detach.

I thought I had to ‘deal’ as well but it’s more getting through it ~ not over it or around it but through it.

But you know how that goes - the more we focus on that, the more out of control we feel.

And yes we (I) have tough days. I self sabotaged constantly and all that transpired was a bigger hole for me to crawl into. Self sabotage can lead to depression.

One of the stages of healing from grief is bargaining ~ allow yourself to move through the Us: The Five Stages of Grieving a Relationship Loss ~ but avoid ruminating (which is self defeating) post it, talk to a friend, your T.

When we experience self sabotage we head down the road of faulty thinking ~ we catastrophise, mind read, B & W thinking, personalise and compare ~ all self defeating. Be mindful of the self defeating nature of some of your emotional reactions (rumination, injustice or insisting on perfection from yourself) ~ In times like this I ask myself “In thinking this way is it helping me to move past this grief and heal”? Nup! So we need to concentrate on the facts and not go into catastrophising and comparing mode.

US: Identifying and working on self-sabotage

I can help myself by saying what needs to be said without him understanding, or can I? will that only make it worse?

Lovely sentiment NW but wishful. I tried the same and was met with dysregulation. BPDs just don’t get their role and fortunately we have the insight.

We also need to remind ourselves that BPD is an emotional and an attachment disorder. So while he appears to be off having a lovely time ~ it won’t last. Behaviours go in ebbs and flows however at the core is instability.

I know that I see my freezing problem much more clearly and I am at the point of building a skill set for it... .i will likely do better in the next situation... .but for now, I just feel so ... .ashamed... .'if I had stood up for myself, he wouldn;t have pushed me so far, I wouldn;t feel so badly"

I was also a freezer ~ I have 3 boundaries that I can pull on when I need to. We are armed!

The shame for me was because I gave to the nth degree and got nothing! Well so I thought. I have learnt a lot about me but this was a slow growing process over the last 6 months.

then he ghave me permission a few days later to "tell him what to do because we have a committed relationship"

Hmmm. I got the exact same thing. No one should tell anyone what to do in a relationship ~ this is him essentially asking you to ‘teach him how to live’ ~ oh boy! Parent/child relationship and not a healthy stable one.

So, I asked my ex to do things, which was fine for a while but it didn’t last. He soon saw it as control and would fight back. No win! Your ex was bargaining with you NW. You do not need to teach anyone how to live.

We have spent so long looking after our ex's needs over and above ours ~ it takes time to place the focus back onto us.  

Lastly, NW get MAD (angry)!  

[newworld]

I read you r post after I chatted with my other neighbor and friend last night who lives below him. Not gossip, real heart to heart.

he helped me to get to ANGRY! (in a good and productive way) 

I want to answer what you wrote and ask some questions, but I am burnt out right now -

I just wanted to clarify one thing- I didn;t mean can I talk to him and have him get it? That I know is not possible.

I meant, can I talk to him and have him not get it and have that be the right thing to do for me because I just need to get things off my chest- I don't need to be "heard" by him. I lost all belief in that months ago - months.   So it's not a wish or a thought. I am actually armed with the understanding that he will not get what I am saying - it's purely for me.

[hangintherebaby]

New World, as I follow your story you are helping me to count my blessings.

I have the good fortune of living 40 minutes away from my XpwBPD and I have blocked him from emailing and calling. I have no idea what he is doing, who he is dating or what he is thinking. It helps me to move on.

I hope you are able to live somewhere different soon, it must be so hard to detach in your situation.

My heart goes out to you... .

Blessings and Peace... .

[newworld]

Thank you HITB-

It is very hard to detach under the circumstances.

It is also hard to watch him detach, but not really and to wonder, everytime I see him do something out of the ordinary in his routine if it's another woman... .

Driving in early in the morning... .walking out the back way (not to his own car) at night - who is picking him up?  where is he on the long weekends... ?

It's awful. he threatened me with other women for so long. 

And it took me TIME to see his disorder. I did see flags, but he was doing and saying two different things - he was saying "be patient with me, I love you" and acting like an ass... .or SAYING assy things when asking me to be close to him. And then "poof" he was out... .he took all of the blame, but in that way that is so manipulative you know they are really blaming us... .and there is no real discussion... .you are left feeling manipulated... .

Yes, I know these are flags, but when in the middle of it, it's very hard to see... .

and I just... .it so hard...

what helps partially is that the other neighbors who have known him for years keep telling me what a whack job he is and that they have been worried about him for a long time...