Does therapy SAVE the relationship?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Situation: For the interest of the other partner, information is presented in succinct manner. We both are highly qualified and in professional jobs. My partner has more than five diagnostic criteria for BPD with possible co-diagnosis of depression. She is pregnant - early pregnancy - no other kids. The crises have been happening for last 5 years - me not seeing them as signs of BPD. At her last rage event, I gave her a last chance; now she had another rage event - I moved out. Now she is pleading to make up - would do anything to get me back in including agreeing to see therapist for evaluation.

My situation: I am generally an optimistic enthusiastic person and feel very emotionally bruised over the events of last 5 years. Though I love her dearly, I don't want fall into trap and bring another human being (our unborn child) into this world if this disorder is not going to improve. On Breaking up survival tips it says that its a myth that I should stay because it will improve with treatment (belief 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm). I am clear in mind that I cannot continue if the home situation was not going to improve.

Question:

Does relationship become happier following diagnosis and treatment?

Do breakups/divorce actually help the treatment? (thats what seem to be suggested in the survival tips - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm)


Thanks a lot in advance.

[EmotionallyBruised]

Situation: For the interest of the other partner, information is presented in succinct manner. We both are highly qualified and in professional jobs. My partner has more than five diagnostic criteria for BPD with possible co-diagnosis of depression. She is pregnant - early pregnancy - no other kids. The crises have been happening for last 5 years - me not seeing them as signs of BPD. At her last rage event, I gave her a last chance; now she had another rage event - I moved out. Now she is pleading to make up - would do anything to get me back in including agreeing to see therapist for evaluation.

My situation: I am generally an optimistic enthusiastic person and feel very emotionally bruised over the events of last 5 years. Though I love her dearly, I don't want fall into trap and bring another human being (our unborn child) into this world if this disorder is not going to improve. On Breaking up survival tips it says that its a myth that I should stay because it will improve with treatment (belief 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm). I am clear in mind that I cannot continue if the home situation was not going to improve.

Question:

Does relationship become happier following diagnosis and treatment?

Do breakups/divorce actually help the treatment? (thats what seem to be suggested in the survival tips - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm)


Thanks a lot in advance.

[sometimesnow]

I am in the middle of raising teens with what i suspect is this disorder.

no diagnosis. i think the only reason a diagnosis might help is because it would make the non aware of how to interact with the person using SET techniques. If it were a motivated

BPD perhaps they could get help. It might clarify this in your mind.

I think my other has these signs,  have no diagnosis, but its helping me to not make situation worse and to self protect.

I think with the baby you will always have a relationship withher, so

trying to figure out what is going on and working in that

manner mighthelp. It still will be difficult which way you go.

Hope that helps. Maybe someone else who has the diagnosis can assit you further.

[EmotionallyBruised]

I need to make a quick decision due to lot of circumstancial issues. Cross posted from staying/leaving

Situation: For the interest of the other partner, information is presented in succinct manner. We both are highly qualified and in professional jobs. My partner has more than five diagnostic criteria for BPD with possible co-diagnosis of depression. She is pregnant - early pregnancy - no other kids. The crises have been happening for last 5 years - me not seeing them as signs of BPD. At her last rage event, I gave her a last chance; now she had another rage event - I moved out. Now she is pleading to make up - would do anything to get me back in including agreeing to see therapist for evaluation.

My situation: I am generally an optimistic enthusiastic person and feel very emotionally bruised over the events of last 5 years. Though I love her dearly, I don't want fall into trap and bring another human being (our unborn child) into this world if this disorder is not going to improve. On Breaking up survival tips it says that its a myth that I should stay because it will improve with treatment (belief 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm). I am clear in mind that I cannot continue if the home situation was not going to improve.

Question:

Does relationship become happier following diagnosis and treatment?

Do breakups/divorce actually help the treatment? (thats what seem to be suggested in the survival tips - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm)


Thanks a lot in advance

[EmotionallyBruised]

I need to make a quick decision due to lot of circumstancial issues. Cross posted from staying/leaving

Situation: For the interest of the other partner, information is presented in succinct manner. We both are highly qualified and in professional jobs. My partner has more than five diagnostic criteria for BPD with possible co-diagnosis of depression. She is pregnant - early pregnancy - no other kids. The crises have been happening for last 5 years - me not seeing them as signs of BPD. At her last rage event, I gave her a last chance; now she had another rage event - I moved out. Now she is pleading to make up - would do anything to get me back in including agreeing to see therapist for evaluation.

My situation: I am generally an optimistic enthusiastic person and feel very emotionally bruised over the events of last 5 years. Though I love her dearly, I don't want fall into trap and bring another human being (our unborn child) into this world if this disorder is not going to improve. On Breaking up survival tips it says that its a myth that I should stay because it will improve with treatment (belief 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm). I am clear in mind that I cannot continue if the home situation was not going to improve.

Question:

Does relationship become happier following diagnosis and treatment?

Do breakups/divorce actually help the treatment? (thats what seem to be suggested in the survival tips - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm)


Thanks a lot in advance

[johnc]

Does relationship become happier following diagnosis and treatment?

I can't imagine that can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no."

I'd think treatment would certainly be beneficial to your partner. And seeing her making an earnest effort to seek help will probably make you feel better about her and the relationship in general. Do you think you might benefit in seeing a therapist as well? Five years in a dysfunctional relationship can see both sides incur substantial damage (not saying that's the case here ... .just saying).

Takes two to tango.

Relationships between two healthy people (well, between two non-BPD people anyway) have their own set of complexities and hurdles to overcome. There's no reason IMO to think that removing (or at least lessening) the BPD factor guarantees eternal happiness and bliss.

But it certainly can't hurt.

Good luck to you both.

[2010]

I don't want fall into trap and bring another human being (our unborn child) into this world if this disorder is not going to improve. On Breaking up survival tips it says that its a myth that I should stay (belief 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm). I am clear in mind that I cannot continue if the home situation was not going to improve.

Hi!

1) She's pregnant. This is out of your hands and solely her responsibility now on whether or not she comes to full term. She's in charge of her body.

2) You will have a child if she determines it.

3) You do not have to remain attached, but you will have to support your child.

Re: Does therapy SAVE the relationship?

NO. The relationship is a reenaction of previous attempts to separate/ individuate from previous attachment. Therapy for a Borderline cannot be marriage counseling- therapy must address the personal growth needed to become a self in adulthood.

Personal growth means each part of the couple, each person, finds their own therapist and makes their own decisions about who they are separate and apart of the marriage. This is very hard for a Borderline to do, but it is the best thing (above all) for a person suffering from an attachment disorder- to struggle with the pain caused by becoming unattached, losing the blame game and finding their "self" in solo introspection with a guidance counselor.

In your partner's case, this will be very difficult to do when pregnant.  She will have hormonal surges that may appear to be acting out. And she will be under great anxiety about your departure and being left alone with a new addition. This is not a good time for either or you to make any separations unless both of you have responsible support networks that will allow for decisions in your absence. 

[truly amazed]

Hi,

Does relationship become happier following diagnosis and treatment?

Two very different things here ... .diagnosis and treatment. You can be diagnosed but not seek treatment.

My ex met 8-9 out of 9 of the criteria. She refused to see any problem other than others having a problem not her.

I do not know or pretend to be an expert other than a mother with a PD age 82 and untreated ... .unhappy and trouble and now 4 years of involvement with a BPD case.

BPD rarely seem to get treatment unless they actually take suicide attempts ... .then they can and do fall thru the cracks. my own threatened it many times but was a cry for help.

When and if it has devolved to this stage your RS ... .anything goes.

Whilst you can identify 5 of the criteria ... .it was not till post RS for me I found out for example on top of a drinking problem she was involved in drugs ... .she had cheated with several partners during our RS ... .

basically even at the end I may have only come up with 5 out of 9 ... .but post RS learning the truth it sadly hit 8 if not 9. Lies omissions ... .total fictions ... .

Treatment for my ex ... .a severe high functioning BPD person but not a cutter ... .my T with 30 years in the field said it would take about 6 months inside an institution and about 3 years of therapy after this and then likely drugs for the rest of her life. As she was unwilling and unable to see a problem with anything other than people outside her ... .despite her actions ... .she never would seek treatment ... .ever.

I suppose some do get help and change their behaviour but its a long hard road and acceptance and mutual support and understanding its going to be a very long raod is NEEDED. If there is no acceptance of a severre problem and total commitment to work on the problem ... .you sadly I suspect are circling the drain.


I found this following article and aspects of a healthy RS more use than any advice or attempt at recycling you may attempt. Answer them honestly and see how healthy in reality your RS is and look at yourself.


https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm

One of the biggest lessons I learnt via a BPD RS was its not up to me to change someone else ... .you cannot change anyone other than yourself and its not up to you to rescue ... .or change someone else. Either they want change ... .see there is a problem ... .and devote 100% of their resources to try and change it ... .or they dont. You can suport them on this journey if thats your choice and as such moving towards mutual goals.

Is this the case ?

Change will not happen overnight and will take a massive effort on your partners half ... .and it will require lots of patience and understanding and support on yours and even with this success is not ensured.

Good luck  

[OnceConfused]

At her last rage event, I gave her a last chance;

So how do you define LAST CHANCE?

Well, does she understand what she did to you over the years?

Does she remember or know what have triggered her rages?

The reason I am asking is in the case of my xBPDgf, she was so cunning to the point of convincing her T (after her divorce) that her XH was indeed the abuser. She told the T her versions of their r.s.

BPD is not a disease which can be eradicated over night with medicine or 1 t session. It is basically a flaw in the character. As you perhaps know, to change our characters it will take lots of baby steps and times and reinforcement.

The positive sign is that your W seems now accepting the problem as she facing the real abandonment of yours. I would sit down with her to have a heart to heart talk, in which I would probe not to be understood but really to understand HER. Probe  to see:

1. Does she see WHY you are leaving and the frustration you have had?

2. Why did she rage? what inside of her made her do that? A fear of abandonment, jealousy, ... .

3. Why did she NOT rage at others? Why did she rage at you?

4. Let her know that a psychological evaluation might be of help. But it does not matter what the T labels her, BPD, or whatever, it does matter HOW YOU FEEL AT THE END OF HER RAGE. The thing that matters is how she acts and how she controls her inner emotions.  DOes she love you enough to be willing to take every efforts to change, one step at the time ?

If she is not pregnant and you had said before 'this was the last chance" then I would suggest to say enough is enough and move on. But since you both will have a child together and it appears she is willing to look at herself (as long as she is true to that statement), then I would suggest you give her another chance.

[BlushAndBashful]

My experience is that m/c did nothing for us/me except waste my money. And we had 2 really good m/c-- but BPD wasn't even on the radar.

T #1 was a female who really helped him open up and express his feelings. However, in the 5 times we saw her, (and he saw her 2-3 times on his own) nothing got accomplished. The same issues that were there in 2004 were still there in 05, 06, 07, etc.

pwBPD deployed and came back with combat stress/PTSD (because we didn't have enough on our plate to begin with). He was- clinically speaking- a basket case. I found this serious kick ass prior service mental health guy who was wonderful and pwBPD could really relate to. But they could have been freaking drinking buddies- nothing got accomplished. Over the course of 10 months we saw him probably 10 times or so. The paperwork/homework we did back in month #1- yeah, those issues weren't even discussed until... .oh wait, we were going to discuss them "next time" and we broke up before then. Once again, didn't know we were dealing with BPD. Bipolar was possibly on the radar- but we were mostly leaning towards the PTSD slant. The very last session was when we talked about his very recent BPD diagnosis, it got thrown in my face that his T said that *I* was BPD too... .and we just never went back because pwBPD spiralled back into his depression and isolated himself.

I guess it could be done, if the T knows you are dealing with a PD.

[Wanda]

if she is admitting she has a problem and agrees to theropy which can take time yes you can be happier...

Theropy helps alot even for you, i have been married going on 14 years to a undiagnoise BPD but he is high functioning and doesn't think there is a problem, i had to come to these terms and accept his condition, what he use to be which were rages three times a week now are not often at all ... but i had to learn the skills and tools which are taught here when i came on here i already knew them i just had to strengthen them.

My husband and i also went the theropy which is where i learned of his condition and got help for me. i hoped he would get the help but he wouldn't accept he had a condition and theropy stopped after a year. HOpe this helps and good luck in what you decide    

[catnap]

While sometimes therapy can save a marriage, there are to many variables to give a yes or no answer.

Therapeutic Separation

If she is just suggesting marriage counseling: Why marriage counseling so often fails with BPD sufferers

[EmotionallyBruised]

Thanks for all your input.

Last chance was defined on the basis of Bad Behaviour. At the time, I had no clue about BPD. Its only recently I looked up and realised how my partner fits the diagnosis so completely.

I am also now feeling the pain from all emotional abuse of so-many years. I was trying to be "better" rather than realising that i was crushing all my support networks.

Thanks for all your help.

I still have 24 hours to make a decision - complex situation. I will give a long, hard thought and will make a decision either way and will not change then obviously because of early pregnancy.

[Auspicious]

There are no quick fixes. Even when a person with BPD peruses therapy, and even when it helps, progress is slow and uneven.

And there is never a guarantee that a relationship will be saved. Often, our relationships originally formed because of dysfunction. Getting healthy might mean the relationship will end, or that it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

[truly amazed]

Hi EmotionallyBruised,

Good luck.

Just two more things beyond the healthy relationship thing I posted.

There is somewhere on this site an article about Relationships ... .which hit home for me.

Every relationship starts 50/50 no matter what. At some stages in a BPD one we seem to take 100% of the blame for it breaking down ... .yet the reasons and bad behaviour usually come 100% from one direction ... .and it may be a cas eof goading from the BPD side that makes one react.

But its not uncommon for the non's to be blamed 100% for the why at the end of the RS ... .yet the actual reasons to come 100% from the BPD sufferer    What is worse is that quite often in the FOG the one not causing the breakdown ... .actually takes 100% of the blame.

Important to sift this crap out ... .it starts 50/50 ... .we play roles in the RS no matter what we do ... .important not to take all the blame or too much or dwell on the stupid thign that its all my fault .  It isn't ! 

Second point ... to change ... .to make a material change there has to be commitment ... .acknowledgement and 100% devotion. If your BPD partner is commited to change its like giving up smoking and loosing weight at the same time and devotion total decotion is needed to enable change and it will take time. Smokers who have given up still crave it 3 years later and it will be a long hard road.


Good luck with your journey and hope it goes well 

[seeking balance]

why not try a therapeutic separation - this way EACH of you has time and space to learn the skills necessary.  You are going to parent together; as such - it is in the child's best interest for BOTH of you to have therapy.

recovery is possible, and having a loving support system helps.  you will have a lot of work to do on your part also (this is true whether you stay or go -fyi).

[isilme]

I think the main purpose of therapy is to make you a stronger, healthier person.  If your partner decides and commits to joining you in this journey, the yes, I think therapy can be a big factor in saving a relationship.  But that should not be the main reason to go into therapy.  You can personally benefit from it, even if your SO doens't, and even if the r/s doesn't last.  Often a pwBPD or any partner can feel threatened by the changes T can bring about in a healthier you.  Like Auspicious said, the r/s may have developed due to dysfunction - as you remove the dysfunction, you change the rules of the 'game', and often, when one person in an r/s grows, if the other does not, the r/s cannot move forward. 

Think of a couple who started dating in HS or early college, and one never leaves the party lifestyle, while the other moves on to having a FT job where the party lifestyle no longer fits, wanting more than beer cans and stale pizza as home decor, and maybe wanting a family and home someday.  What usually happens here?  The responsible person stands in a holding pattern waiting in growing resentment for his/her SO to catch up, the partier catches up and assumes a more adult lifestyle, or the r/s ends based on no longer mutually filling a need for both parties.

If you no longer fulfill the role of whatever your pwBPD needs/wants, and you become strong enough emotionally to no longer react in a way that feeds their out of control emotions, you may find you no longer care to be subject to those emotions.  They may no longer fill the niche they once did for you, as you rid yourself of your own dysfunctional tendencies.  It just varies situation to situation, person to person.

[artman.1]

EmotionallyBruised,

     Listen to this and maybe it will help.  I have been married to my UBPDW for 43 years, have three sons, grown and successful.  I discovered last year that she is BPD, and I am codependent.  I established Boundries, and Limits.  I will not remain in the same location/room with someone who is raging and calling me filthy names, or abusing me in any way.  I left the room for the remainder of the eavening three times, and on the fourth time she started to get upset, she commented that if she says whatever she was going to say, I will leave, and she stopped, and re-regulated herself.  She has not raged at me since, and this was last spring.

     You can improve your RS by working on yourself, and instituting certain changes that you must make.  To answer your question, Yes, you can improve the RS, even if she does not accept therapy, and if she is amenable to going to therapy, there is a very good chance of real improvement, especially if she accepts her need for therapy.

Art

[beenburned]

For normal people yes.  In case of BPD no...  

Borderline personality disorder is intrinsically difficult to treat. Personality disorders, by definition, are long-standing ways of coping with the world, social and personal relationships, handling stress and emotions, etc. that often do not work, especially when a person is under increased stress or performance demands in their lives. Treatment, therefore, is also likely to be somewhat lengthy in duration, typically lasting at least a year for most.

[Steph]

There are no quick fixes. Even when a person with BPD peruses therapy, and even when it helps, progress is slow and uneven.

And there is never a guarantee that a relationship will be saved. Often, our relationships originally formed because of dysfunction. Getting healthy might mean the relationship will end, or that it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

I have a success story, meaning that my husband has completely recovered from BPD. It took 3 years for him, in dbt, and it took a 9 month separation, therapy for me for my own issues ( We ALL have them... if we were healthy, we wouldnt be where we are/where), and MC when we reconciled.

It comes hard and slowly... it can work

He is different than he was before therapy and so am I. We are, indeed, very happy, but it could have also gone the other way.


Steph

[EmotionallyBruised]

As mentioned before, I needed to make a decision (especially she being in early pregnancy).

I have decided to leave i.e. go for separation and then possibly for divorce.

I know that one of the tools is therapeutic separation which is under supervision of therapists but that would mean I am prepared to stay.

I consulted lot of people, some related to me and some unrelated friends - also went through lot of research on BPD - and finally I decided to tell her that I would like to separate i.e. divorce.

She has been trying to cling onto relationship despite recurrent rage episodes with significant verbal abuse with no insight into her problems. I have suggested to her that she should seek a thorough psychiatric assessment and have told her previously that she might have BPD -(I did not know then that diagnosis should be revealed by professional only-another mistake made).

I also understand that despite she is saying that she still wants to give a last chance to our relationship, she had already painted me black; and there is some evidence of fabrication, pathological lies - which is incredibly difficult to deal with given that she is highly qualified professional as I am.

On the basis of above, I decided to go with the decision to separate i.e. divorce. At meeting with family mediators, she has agreed the terms of no-contact and separation. Mediators suggested couple of months of separation during which she can seek psychiatric evaluation and/or treatment should she wish. I am going to see a counsellor myself as I feel very wounded given that I knew the person for 15 years and am married for 5 years - its only that after my decision to separate after last rage episode I found out about BPD and realised how completely she fits the diagnosis.

I may be wrong in conclusion of BPD and it might be that we both may be just uncompatible given different backgrounds. If its BPD, the events of verbal fights and accusations on other family members will haunt our relationship despite her treatment and she may not recover owing to those issues. Therefore separation i.e. divorce might be appropriate both ways.

I am generally an optimistic person and would consider that there is <1% chance that she will seek full thorough psych evaluation and will tell everything correctly and that she will be diagnosed and treated. Most likely her ego/BPD will prevent her from telling all the events correctly and might project herself as suffering from depression because of being ditched by her husband! - Its always my fault 100%!

I just hope that this woman who is highly qualified, generally good person and hard working; would undergo treatment before next relationship so that atleast she will no longer be biologically unhappy; and will end this ongoing generation of this illness.

Thanks a lot for all replies and May God give me strength and happiness.

[yeeter]

Hi Bruised     

Im sorry you were in the position to make such a difficult choice.  Its clear that you are a caring person, and have give this considerable thought, research, and counsel from the outside.

There is a great subgroup here on those breaking the relationship - I encourage you to read some of the lessons there, as well as your own T to rebuild and recover yourself.

It sounds like you have a child together (soon) - as such, the two of you are linked in this way the rest of your life.  The tools will help you sort out how you want to define the relationship going forward.

I applaud you for making a decision.  So many of us here get 'stuck'.      You give a pretty clear and level headed decision and I wish you the very best of luck going forward.  DO take care of yourself, and try out the leaving sub group.