Some improvement, but not much.

[elemental]

It looks really awful.

In retrospect part of me is thinking "wow," too.

I was confused. He is really awesome in a lot of ways, but these incidents. I could never understand what suddenly went wrong or why everything I say at times gets me deeper and deeper into conflict when I am really trying.

He is badly disregulated right now. I guess I am, too. I was sitting here this evening doing just what you said not to: beating myself up.

I don't even recognize myself anymore. It was really painful reading those chat logs. I still had a lot of self esteem, I totally believed I was entitled to speak up for myself, I was certain of my value. And today, it made me cry to see how angry I get and how crazy I feel at times. And his validating email calling me insane 

These days I am too scared of his reactions to even attempt talking to him like I have value and feelings and a right to be treated decently by him. I am really gutted by how far down I am right now on this. And regret, I wish I had understood the BPD years ago, it could have prevented a lot of damage to us both.

And last thought here for the night... how massive a co-dependency I have had going to take what I have taken ... as you say stuck by him. It was not healthy. I just didn't know I was supposed to stop and step way back from it.

Even now, seeing how unfair he has been to me, I am all worried about him and wanting to reassure him and hugs and kisses.

I feel totally crazy. I am all over the place because all I want to do is the right thing, the effective thing... and I don't know what it is. I am wrong no matter what I do.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[123Phoebe]

Elemental,

Ugh, you are in the midst of a very confusing, crazy-making relationship to try and make sense out of... .  There are so many people and circumstances, variables involved that there's really no way to do the right and effective thing for any of it to be made 'right', unfortunately.  Try not to beat yourself up over all this, or put pressure on yourself to try and control any of the fallout.  Even if you had known about PD's earlier and followed the lessons and tools to a tee, your boyfriend would still be disordered trying to fight his way out of a paper bag.  That's on him.  Nothing you can do/could've done to stop him from being dysfunctional.

You have suffered a lot of losses in a very short time.  Have you taken the time to mourn your own very real personal losses?  Or have you been wrapped up in your boyfriend's mass confusion, discounting your own feelings and healing, that it's somehow easier to do that than to face the realities of your own life?  And one more loss (the loss of an idealized love relationship), is just too much to contemplate?

I think it's important to accept that your boyfriend is who he's showing you he is right now - an abusive guy that will kick you when you're already down.  A guy that makes up excuses for his gross behavior, then blames it on you, his ex, his ex' mother - who ever is within striking distance.

Why we stay - intermittent rewards and Stockholm Syndrome

Elemental, be kind and gentle with yourself.  You're not Mother Theresa or Gandhi.  You're a nice girl who happened to fall in love with a very disturbed guy.  Nothing at all you can do to change that, he has to want to change, so let yourself off the hook.

[elemental]

Hi Phoebe  


I read  your link. Yes, I can see it. Most of what I experienced was disbelief and confusion. I have been trying to figure his way of doing things out for YEARS. I knew he was way off, but I couldn't understand WHY until I came here. Now I do.

I have been giving things a lot of thought in the last couple of months, since I have been integrating this site and BPD.

My bf is very adept at passing the buck. I've spent massive amounts of time "proving" to him that I am not as bad as he tells me I am. Yesterday when I saw what he said about the ingame money, and I pulled up those chat logs and sent them to him, he was clearly taken aback. I didn't discuss the money stuff beyond about 15 minutes and what the actual discussion ended up being about was how being locked out of the house and his vacation had frightened me and created a breach in trust.

I truely believe he had re-written this history in his head and has been silently inflicting blame on me for nearly 4 years over it.

I gave it up yesterday in a lot of ways when I realized this. There are literally hundreds of such incidents where his behavior has been truely heinous. Attempting to address these things with him has turned into a massive nightmare of refusal on his part to keep in mind that I was reacting on his actions... the treatment of me... the lack of responsibility... he shows hardly any remorse EVER. Though I think that point about him silently feeling a lot of shame is valid. He just won't admit it.

Well I have been telling enough of that here that anyone reading has obviously gotton the idea.

What came out of this for me are these realizations:

-With hundreds of incidents like this where he has rewritten the history, I have truely been made the problem. Anything I say that I cannot back up with FACTS is just me JADEing and probably even giving him proof he is wrong is not likely to have a positive effect for me. I do not see how I can fight this, he has to have his scapegoats and I am one of them. It really stuns me and I am deeply sad.

- Asking him to take action on my behalf ... on OUR behalf... .to rebuild trust is a waste of time. He resents any restriction and from what I can tell all of these hundreds of events where he has decided I am awful and he is a victim... .he believes gives him a right to treat me however he wants and do whatever he wants because HE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG AND IS MY VICTIM.

- If I want to be in this relationship, I will have to accept that he believes this and that WE will be acting like this false history is TRUE. I am not sure my spirit can take that. It requires truely radical acceptance and a willingness to be permanently painted as "insane", an immoral and wildly destructive person who is being  made to live in shame for as long as I am near him, with him painting me as that to every person we know ( its what he has been doing for years when a conflict arises) and me having to accept that I am not allowed to say one word otherwise to anyone to show people this is not actually the case, or he will abandon me and emotionally abuse me.

Of course, that could be me seeing things too black and white and my own fears.  

- Almost all of the conflict we have had in the last year have been over his actions with internet woman. I believe at this point he has ruined any real chance of true friendship with her. She is wary of him. So real problem is the apparant battle of wills he has going with me over what he is doing there. Without her cooperation, not much could happen anyway. And he does not have a history of running around after women. I think he had a load of reasons for this one, most of them probably harmless. He just resents like heck anyone asking him to do something he doesn't want to do and at this point purely out of his own past issues, he will silent rage about it even if he appears to agree, then the resentment will build up and he WILL do it and not care about consequences.

So I gave that up, too. With that giving up on my part, there goes almost all of the current reasons for conflict. I am sad and sorry his problems and mindset took something so small that could have restored trust between us to some degree and he turned it into a absolute nightmare that has pretty much ruined everything at this point.

Possibly without that aggrivation of all of that, calm is restored mostly, and after a while, the air will clear enough for me to see if there is any point in continuing to interact with him. Yes, I love him. And in the first 3 years of our relationship, I generally was calm and happy until he pulled crap that were honestly relationship enders. We had no real conflict otherwise coming from my side. His family, ex, etc, have been horrible. My family, friends, etc have never made a peep at him or done anything at all to create conflict.

My own life, the things that happened in the last year. I was pretty flatlined in October and November hit and BPD was blowing up all over the place. Being apart from my BPD allowed me to calm down a lot and start to process. I guess I was optimistic to hear from him Christmas eve. That night I lay in bed and I was having panic symptoms I had badly before... .heart pounding, shaking. And I thought, this is not good. Wake up, see he broke agreements again, tried to talk to him, got abused and jerked around and taunted and put down... .and I shattered apart again.

I won't be dishonest here. I think I truely did come as close to insanity as anyone can for about a day. Then that mail about the video game money and how I "destroyed" our relationship over it. And I thought, this guy needs put on the back burner for the forseeable future.

I am just going to mind my own business and leave him alone. I am not "leaving" but I am not going to do anything actively to fix, repair, or promote the relationship. Both he and I are too upset and nervewarcked to be together, so I will continue working here and hopefully what happened yesterday where he saw CLEAR evidence in the chatlogs that his memory was WRONG and the accusations he put on me were WRONG and seeing what actually DID happen... will make him realize that he is putting blame in the wrong place.

Possibly, I doubt it though. On the positive side, if you want to call it that, he always says he doesn't care who is really to blame or whatever, he just wants the crap to STOP. So thumbs up to him, I hope he stops the crap.  

[Chihiro]

Elemental - I just wanted to say what a great job of examining yourself you're doing.  You have experienced a very painful series of events (the affair, the baby, his reaction to your reaction, etc.) and there's no easy way through that dark wood.  Like they say, you just have to keep going.  I've been through a similar experience - no baby thank goodness - but infidelity and extremely erratic behavior in the wake of said discovery - that has left me with considerable  - or even into "BPD lite" territory.  Your ability to identify and talk about your emotions has helped me understand myself.  Thanks for sharing your journey with us.



Chihiro

[elemental]

I often wonder about me and BPD. I have an extreme early family history. Things have been great with my family for about 10 years or so, but early on there were a lot of traumas.

Shock traumas :/ 

I realized early on that I was effected by those events.

So yeh, after all of the last few months, I have been at limits. As Pheobe asks, what am I doing to face these things. I took about 2 months apart to be mostly by myself, except for part of that time my BPD was up to the usual antics. I think I learned a lot here, but my resilience is just gone. So I end up reacting...

Then once my bf sees me reacting, he pulls out all of his BPD torture tools and the fun begins. I really seriously took on after this time around over the last few days that I can't afford to let him get the hook in. I really cannot care about all of these little things that give him something to play games and manipulate with.

And, many of you warned me that I was getting caught up in details that ultimately are not important. I paid the price. I guess pain teaches.

So the insanity accusation was attached to " you really are insane, Elemental. Like Vaas."

Vaas is a character in Far Cry 3, a recently released video game. I am not sure links here are allowed, but if you want to see him giving his "The Definition of Insanity" speech, google it I guess. It's pretty hostile. This was the video my BPD sent me after I had responded that I was not interested in coming back into the situation currently due to things having to be done differently because what had been being done wasn't working.

The description of Vaas is "Vaas is an impulsive, sadistic, unstable and essentially insane man with no real regard for human life".

That is who my BPD says I am like.

I am probably dwelling on this too much. So there is how my BPD sees me because I got upset at him. And truthfully I have had some major meltdowns since June when I was just reaching a breaking point over and over. Wish I had gotton here last year or something.

So I guess I am BPD lite, too.

Disheartening. I am doubtful he will ever do anything to fix his own self.

[kl315]

Elemental... .there is something you need to do for yourself every morning when you wake up, every night before you go to sleep and any time this man makes you feel less than what you are.

Sit in a quiet place where you are comfortable and close your eyes. Say, "I am beautiful. I am kind and nurturing. I have great worth. I am healthy. I am brilliant. I am loved. Only good things come to me." Smile while you are saying this and repeat it ten times.

I promise you, if you do this every day, at some point you will realize that it's true and it won't matter what ridiculous, erroneous projections he attempts force upon you.

[BasketCase]

Hi all,

Elemental - this thread was painful to read. Because my BPDex did all the things yours did (sans baby, but including constant cheating, physical and emotional, blaming me and discrediting me to our friends and family) AND I was just as confused as you are, tried to make sense of his behavior and expected him to behave rationally.

I finally reached a breaking point (seeing a picture on Facebook of him hanging out with a girl he cheated on me with for nearly 2 years). I left, moved out. I told him I believed he had BPD, to get DBT treatment and only then would I consider being with him. Although he had previously thrown me out of our apartment repeatedly, gave me silent treatment and refused to have sex with me, he was devastated when I left and asked me to marry him in an effort to get me to stay.

I said no. I love this man unconditionally. He is the love of my life. But I am happier without him. I know he cannot keep any promises and will repeat damaging behaviors, and sabotaging our relationship because the closer we get, the more he is triggered. It is a sad situation because I believe he loves me too.

Now, he is seeking therapy and we are NC for the most part, at my request. Who knows, maybe he is actually getting DBT, and maybe we will have a future together. I am in limbo as far as knowing what my future with him holds. But I'm fine with it. In the meantime I am putting some much needed focus back on me and my career. It is so liberating, I feel like a changed woman.

This is not my place to say, but I feel compelled to put it out there - from reading this thread, and from my own experience, I feel your guy is 2-timing you with his ex. I think  he made up all those horrible things about her to manipulate you into believing his relationship with her is not romantic and still going on. The same way he makes you out to be a bad person to her.

His relationship with internet woman is humiliating and disrespectful to you.

I think without therapy, he will never stop these behaviors. That is the conclusion I came to wth my own BPDex, I was honest with myself and him about it and I am so happy. I wish the same for you. Please get out of this abusive situation and set and stick to your boundaries while you still have something to live for: your beautiful self!

[123Phoebe]

Hi elemental

The description of Vaas is "Vaas is an impulsive, sadistic, unstable and essentially insane man with no real regard for human life".

That is who my BPD says I am like.

I am probably dwelling on this too much. So there is how my BPD sees me because I got upset at him.  

Sounds like 'projection' to me! BPD BEHAVIORS: Projection

Radically accepting that your boyfriend has a serious mental illness will help you in so many ways, elemental   A lot of his confusing and distorted behaviors are highlighted in the criteria for PD's, aka, mental illness.  That's not to say you have to accept his ill treatment of you because of it, quite the contrary... . Backing away from the disturbing manifestations of the disorder helps not only you, but him too, whether you stay or leave.  

My dad had schizophrenia and sometimes heard voices telling him certain things.  It upset me greatly and I would then try to talk sense into him, getting mad and extremely frustrated that he wasn't understanding my view on things, he wasn't getting it!  His reality was his reality.  Mine was mine.  I had to radically accept that the man was seriously disturbed at those times, so I learned not to feed into his paranoia while protecting my sanity at the same time.  Telling him he was wrong was a moot point.  Protecting myself was valid.  I couldn't love or talk him out of his mental illness :'(  Being the 'supposed' sane one (me! ), I was able to see the common ground that we both could share - the relationship he could offer.  No, it didn't look like the relationship of my dreams, but it was based in reality, in a positive way, based on love    It didn't really hit me until after he died, that I was practicing the tools but not really understanding them, and not really accepting that deep down, I still wanted him to be the father of my dreams.  I was devastated when he died, feeling resentful, guilty and maybe if I had just done this or hadn't done that, we could have had that beautiful father/daughter relationship of my dreams... . 

Reality check!  We couldn't.  It wasn't my fault and it wasn't his fault.  It just was... . And what we did have was enough, because the love was there regardless of all the noise, i.e., mental illness.

Based on the history of your relationship with your boyfriend, can you say that the 'love is there' coming from both sides, regardless of the noise?  Is it worth sticking around for?  Can you feel his love?

Kind of an abstract way of discerning things, but the relationship with my father has really helped me to understand the relationship with my romantic friend, and why I choose to stay when it's not always sunshine and butterflies.  I can feel, see and experience his love in very real ways, that aren't part of an 'idealization' phase or mirroring and I appreciate him.  And I truly believe that my love and acceptance of him has also helped move us a little closer to the middle ground, gaining trust in each other, with the pendulum swings becoming less pronounced, but not gone entirely.  Our relationship does not look like your typical love relationship, although we have all the ingredients of one; it's just a little disjointed here and there , and I'm okay with that, for now... . We bring our own dynamics into it and I do have my own limits and boundaries in a chosen relationship.

Well, I hope some of that makes sense.

Here's to a brand new year with fresh perspectives  

[elemental]

Kl, thank you for that. I have felt terrible about myself. Horribly enough, I degraded emotionally very badly in the last year. I have felt near worthless, and in pleading with BPD to see me as "good enough" to take steps to act on my behalf just a little for such a huge reward and I feel so worthless to him.

I built on the pain and grief and anger I already have had and have been acting out on those feelings. Rage, tears, desperate attempts to get discussions... all ends badly for me with him as the victim and himself in the position of moral superiority from his point of view, because I just validated to him what he has been saying about me:

he said he DID care for my feelings and respect them until I began "attacking" everyone around him and him. At which point he began to take steps to protect himself by warning people about me, by condemning me for the "attacks" ( that is I have been telling people the truth or responding to their contacting me).

He says the result "we are not talking right now" is because I have proven so incredibly volitile and damaging that his nerves cannot take the contact. He says he is tired of me because I am so upset all of the time. ALL OF THE TIME.

Probably he does feel that way. I think he does. I came to realize it really is true to him after hearing this statement from him the other day that my hysteria and ranting for days over the ingame financials destroyed our relationship. I didn't do anything wrong, except trigger off his feelings of guilt, shame, and to him these made a big and painful impact. I get it. As a result he built up this false memory ( and probably loads of others) and since he FEELS they are true, he is treating me like they are.

I don't actually know what to do now, except I know that rebuilding ME is essential. Those are such lovely thoughts you composed about what I need to be telling myself, thank you.  

Basket, possibly you are right in that he is triangulating me with his ex. He has a real struggle with her. She wants him back, she wants to marry him again. She goes to extreme lengths to create drama over me, including confronting him constantly about me as if they were still married, manipulating his contact with his kids to force him to come over and spend time at her place because she won't allow their daughter to talk to him on the telephone when he is not THERE. She has relentlessly attacked me ( and I have reached limits and smacked her back to get her to back off. She LOVES it and the drama explodes with him and the kids in the middle). She calls me a whore all the time. She has sent hundreds of emails a week at times calling me names.

And he gets mad if I complain and it can get nasty, so I learned to mostly ignore her. I am guilty of a bit of "bad" behavior in the last couple of months because I got tired of it and let her see his obvious interaction with me, something he is FURIOUS about because it caused extra drama with her. She knows I am here, so it isn't like I disappear or something.

He won't get therapy. I have asked, but he gets mad and says a man fixes his own problems.

I am sad you are experiencing so many of the same events. Hopefully your guy really will follow through on the DBT. I hope so  

Phoebe, you tried to talk to me about this perspective that I need to develop a couple of months ago. You are right. I guess I wasn't ready then. I was confused and just really not believing he really may have BPD. He has it or he has a lot of traits of it.

Like you suggested, I let go of saying anything more about internet woman. I guess he has yet to really test this. In my own private self, it bothers me considerably, but I all I mostly see is her trying to avoid him. I see them on the social site. She comes on, after a while he shows up, she leaves. I see them in the game, she comes on, he comes on, the guy she normally plays with comes on, and my BPD trails behind them but is not actually playing with them. Over and over and over. I think he is reacting on his feelings of being rejected more than real feelings of attachment... it's possible he just wanted accepted and to be a part of that social group.

The hurt I feel over him considering me deserving of the pain and neglect and frustration is the sticking point. Part of me is thinking, after all I went through, how can he not see how damaging this has been to me? Then I think, well he is clearly not going to protect me, so I now protect my own self.

I am relieved after this latest incident to understand that it really IS him, he really IS doing these things, it really IS NOT in my head, it really IS NOT me needing "professional help" like he mocked at me for because I have become so anxious and have been reacting so furiously to things to try and FORCE him to listen to me.

Now I can just stop. I don't have anything to prove to me, except I feel hurt and sad and ashamed of my own lashing out... I HATE that I did that, I HATE how I have made myself look... there I was trying to stand up for myself and fight back what he was doing and in the process I actually VALIDATED to anyone watching that I am what he says I am. I am really hurt by my own self.   in addition to the other hurts.

I accept he is how he is. I still love him very much, and I know he is hurting, too. I don't actually know how to help, except not to be adding anymore upset from my direction. I am worrying that he will not talk to me again, and if he does, all I will hear is how terrible I am and this is why we are not talking.

Any advice there?

Thank you for sharing you story about your father. It's a bittersweet one and really does highlight the lack of power non has and the need to simply accept.

My own son was diagnosed with Tourettes when he was 17, along with ADD, anxiety, and the resulting depression. He had grown up with a girl, very close friend, who around the same time was diagnosed with schizophrenia. She spiraled downward and it took a long time to stabilize her. I don't think even now she is all that well. It's been 2 years, and my son has made immense strides. the Tourrettes is mild, he has overcome the anxiety and depression to the extent he is thriving in college. I am so grateful for this and am proud of him.

I think if my BPD will calm down and re-engage at a later date, he would be very like your boyfriend. He needs a lot of personal space and lack of restriction or demands. Maybe he will heal some and improve even more. I am very afraid at this point that trust has been so shattered on both sides that rebuilding it will be impossible.

So all I am doing is focusing on me and I guess waiting to see if a shift can be had for us after things have calmed down.

[123Phoebe]

Thank you for sharing more of your story as well, about your son thriving in college

Life does throw us some curveballs though, and I think if we can really focus on the positives in our life (like your son! ), it's a lot easier to back away from the negatives, at least long enough to regain our equilibrium.  The negatives feel like such sucker punches at times though, that it's super easy to put our dukes up and react just as intensely; 'Oh, you wanna fight?'  Then we can take all our seemingly justified angries out on them, thinking we're clearing the air  

It's okay to be angry, it's healthy in fact being able to feel your emotions.  It's what we do with them that can result in problems down the road... .    Words are like weapons, so I try and keep my mouth shut when I'm feeling raw and vulnerably stripped, 'cuz it could get ugly.  I still struggle with feeling like a doormat if I don't say exactly what's on my mind.  And I struggle with feeling selfish and passive-aggressive when I don't explain myself enough, for backing away.  I've learned though that all that anxiety is my own residual 'stuff', that's being triggered.  Hard to really explain that to someone, especially someone with a mental illness, so I quietly back away and take care of myself.  I'm always open to positive interactions, but not until I've gotten myself straight again.  Sometimes it seems that I'm 'expected' to be all happy and glowing when coming off the heels of some pretty chaotic behavior.  Nuh uh, I need time and space, I've found.  I'm cordial, but not super open.  Hey, I'm human.

As far as advice goes for your situation, learn the tools, figure out your boundaries, then if your bf starts up with the blame game, you back away again and resume interaction when he can play nice.  Knowing in your heart of hearts that what you want is peace and harmony, and you make it happen.  The problem is, some people don't want that, they're not on the same page or vibration level

I'm curious elemental, what is your gut telling you about all this.  What does that little voice inside your head say to do?  Do you notice when it goes quiet?  What are you feeling when that happens? 

When the little voice inside my head goes quiet, it usually means I'm taking pretty good care of myself and am on the right path  

 

[elemental]

I am pretty deflated.

Understanding he has re-written our history and edited out his actions and created scenarios where he "remembers" me doing terrible things I never did.  

I have been sitting here the last few days processing some emotions: relief to understand, sadness for myself because I didn't realize how horrible he thinks I am, I took loads of abuse and mistreatment because I was so confused. I reacted eventually with so much anger and loss of control. Something I rarely have done in other parts of my life. Not since I was a child really.

For the first time in probably 2 years, I really don't feel the need to argue and try and lay out for him why I was asking for the support. I must have JADED at him a few hundred times and all results led to him leaving, lying, or actually telling me what he had done never happened. Which led to me explaining, blah blah

I don't have that burning impulse of anger and pain. I mean I am still angry and hurt, but it's not driving me to do something to  make it stop.

I don't feel I can do anything.

When he threw the in game money stuff at me, I was trying to explain it to him, and before I was able to copy the logs to him, he wrote me,  "It doesn't matter to me who is to blame. I am just tired of you. "

He's been saying that a lot in the last few months as I was trying to get him to understand. I talked myself silly. It just made him mad.

I think it only matters who is to blame to him when I am to blame. I don't even know what he thinks I am to blame for anymore. I guess he thinks everything.

He either doesn't know what to say now, is punishing me for being "awful", or is upset himself right now. I haven't heard from him, nor have I tried to talk to him for 4 days. I kind of feel like he doesn't care at all for me anymore.

I don't feel like engaging, he is projecting himself as morally superior to me and I don't feel like risking being smacked again.

I can make the peace and harmony happen on my side of things, but my spirit is really struggling with his blaming.

I don't know what to do Phoebe. I guess I feel so unfairly treated when he blames me for things I know I didn't do. A few times he has done that and I didn't say much, I just said ok, and removed myself.  He came looking later for me.

Little voice is saying stay away from him. I miss his good side, I love him dearly, but I am kind of stunned and I don't want to go near him right now. He stated a few days ago that "we are not going to fight. I don't want to talk to you atm."

That was before he got the logs from me. After that, apology from him.

I don't want to approach him. My gut says he is missing me but we have no bridge between us right now. Also he is celebrating Russian orthodox Christmas and new years and I know he was getting sucked into close contact with his ex so he could have that time with his children. Ex runs around and thinks he is "back" and they are "together", and I know he hates it, so probably it's a really good idea for me to drop off the face of the earth for a couple of weeks anyway.

This is the first time in 2 years we have been out of contact for longer than a week. I am afraid he will "move on" as he claimed he was doing last September.

Don't know why I am feeling this after all the awful things

[123Phoebe]

This is the first time in 2 years we have been out of contact for longer than a week. I am afraid he will "move on" as he claimed he was doing last September.

Don't know why I am feeling this after all the awful things

How are you holding up today, elemental? 

It's great that you're questioning yourself and exploring your own feelings.  It kinda sounds like you're still emotionally attached to him?  It's understandable, not judging at all   Working even more on detaching might be a really good avenue for you.  You're already doing it intinctually, by not wanting to get emotionally smacked around, so you're keeping your distance.  But maybe getting involved with something new and exciting that has absolutely nothing to with him, totally separate, but all for your own pleasure could be very therapeutic   Focusing on you and your own awesome life!

Years ago, when I was first noticing serious complications with my guy, I didn't know what to do, so devoted an entire winter to designing new landscaping around my house, with real zest and enthusiasm! Checking things out online, learned about native plants and ph levels of soil (nerdy, haha), hired a landscape designer to draw up plans, would visit various nurseries for more ideas etc...   Springtime came and guess what?  He offered and dug so many holes for plants and trees I thought his back would break; he really helped me out!  Even built me a patio   Why?  Because he knew it was important to me and wanted to be a part of it; he said so   The focus was on me and it was attractive.  I was taking care of myself so wasn't dependent on him for my happiness.  And I was truly excited, still am about gardening; love it!   

Get that focus on you, girlfriend!   Make your life fantastic! 

[elemental]

I feel sad. It hurts to be seen as so terrible by someone I thought really loves me. I am afraid he actually doesn't. I feel weird that maybe he was doing this all along and I was too dumb to see it.

Though I have been here long enough to understand maybe his perceptions are very different from mine.

I am afraid that he appears to be able to do some really damaging things and then try to force his reality on me. How do you stop someone who is blaming you for things you didn't do, then demands you accept it, and then they demand you also allow them to treat you badly on the basis you did the things they made up.

And if you don't, they leave.

I don't know if I am over reacting or seeing things as too black and white.

I am having some anger, but it just kind of dissipates because I know I can't MAKE him stop it.

I guess I am making progress on radical acceptance. I don't have to like this stuff and I certainly don't agree with it.

Is detachment with love ( because I do love him,  just very unhappy how things have been going and worried they will continue badly ) the goal here?

I really need to detach because my head is turning over and over the things he has been saying and doing. I am actually kind of shocked by him :/

I don't garden, though I have had an interest in the work of Capability Brown.

I have a lot of things to do and a lot of interests, it's been a matter of being able to detach so I can focus on them.

Do you think he will forget he thinks I am so terrible when he realizes I put it down and walked off to enjoy myself elsewhere?

[BasketCase]

I think not caring what he thinks is part of detachment.

Seriously, you can't care because he has BPD so there is no way to control or manipulate his feelings. They will change on a dime inexplicably. Don't try to understand or change them.

[BasketCase]

The purpose of detachment is for your own happiness, not because of the result it may or may not have on him.

[elemental]

Yeh, I am coming out of 5 years of thinking this guy is a sane, reasoning person

[123Phoebe]

Hi elemental,

It's scary and uncomfortable as all get out detaching emotionally from someone we love, it seems and feels so wrong and foreign!  It's absolutely necessary though for our own growth.  And it's weird, because once we do this, we actually become more open and positive and accepting.  It's liberating as we take the focus off of somebody else and place it squarely back on ourselves. 

Like Basketcase said:

I think not caring what he thinks is part of detachment.

and this:

The purpose of detachment is for your own happiness, not because of the result it may or may not have on him.

   

Letting go

You have to be willing to let the relationship go for there to ever be any sort of change.  Intellectually you know that he's done a lot of icky things; getting him to realize it, not so simple.  The only person you have control over is yourself.  As it's said on the boards here, lean into the pain, feel it, don't fight it and don't look to him to make it all better; he can't.  It won't kill you.  It will set you free... .    And then you'll have the space and clarity to move forward... .    Whatever that may look like   You'll feel the shift when it happens and it's glorious!  You have the power to change your life

Is it kind of exciting thinking about new adventures on the horizon?  Click those ruby slippers <---- corny, I know

Also, make sure you're eating right, exercising and getting good sleep = the basics and they're essential.

 

[elemental]

I don't really see where I have a choice except to detach.

And what I posted yesterday, I am not doing any of this in an attempt to change his feelings and behavior. For nearly the last week I have been feeling pure futility in  terms of that. I feel really sad about how he is thinking. This is the staying board, but I will say that hearing from him that nearly 4 years of this relationship, he figured I wasn't worth being around due to asking him to use better accounting of money in a video game... and though he can see now what he accused me of isn't the case... .  overwhelmingly to me he likely has hundreds of such events.

I hear what you guys are saying about detaching from this, but I feel like just walking away from him because I feel so overwhelmed by this.

Aside from that, you are right Phoebe, no matter what I do... .  if I never talk to him again, or if I try and engage and he wants to work through it... detachment will aid this.

Right now, I just feel very sad and hurt and LOW. I am not running away from it. And yes I spent a lot of time in the past 3 years trying to get him to support me. He pretty much refused to comfort or show empathy or validate. I could never understand why. Then when I asked him why, he would say he was there for me, and he hurt because I hurt, but he kept right on doing the hurtful things.

I don't WANT to talk to him right now because I already know he will tear me to pieces with his denials and lies and mockery. I already know he KNOWS he is really the person who hurt us so much and I already know he is in a lot of pain and hurt and is refusing to take on his responsibility.

I can't do anything for him, or get anything from him right now.

I don't want to abandon him, but I know there is nothing in that direction to help me... in this emotional map, in his direction "here be monsters".

Probably this is the process we all go through as we detach?

I am guessing all of us who have in these sorts of situations end up facing ourselves and our fears and moving beyond them.

I don't even know today, my mind and feelings are everywhere. I am trying mindfulness to calm me down and ground me.

I am self employed and have business to run, it's part of my life that has gotton neglected, so I am really happy to put my energy into it instead of trying to get him to understand anything at all.

[elemental]

I feel really overwhelmed by all of this today.

I am trying to have a good attitude, but honestly, I am feeling deeply depressed about it all. Tearful, in fact.

I don't even know why. We haven't had any contact, so no new hurts. I know it's a bad idea to reach out now because he is probably disregulated due to all the interaction he is having with his ex right now while trying to spend time with his kids.

He is on winter vacation now, and won't be back to regular schedule till after the 8th of this month. Not really a long time and I know it is for the best this year to step back from the holiday traumas.

I guess I miss him and I am feeling overwhelmed by the BPD stuff, particularly the projection he has been doing. Though I know him well enough that he tends to put aside the old bad stuff when things are going well and not want to drag it up again.

I am not sure I have capacity for this in the long run. I feel exhausted from it all

[kl315]

There is nothing I can say that hasn't already been said or that will make you feel any better, but I do want to say that I am so sorry.

You miss what was and what could have been and it's nearly impossible to get our minds around the fact that the person you miss, at least for now, doesn't exist anymore. It's almost like a death that we are never really able to grieve because the physical embodiment of the person we loved is still walking around, tormenting us.

Anyway, I wish there was something more we could do to help you through this. The support and empathy found on this board are of great value... .  but it doesn't beat having your best friends show up at your house, "kidnap" you, and take out to your favorite restaurant/coffee shop/movies/bar/spa/etc.

Hang in there.

[elemental]

yeh. my mom is back in the hospital, too. Pneumonia.

Stressed I guess.

[kl315]

Oh no. That's terrible.

[elemental]

She gets it 4-5 times a year. We often had to put off celebrating Christmas when I was a kid because she would be in the hospital this time of year.

She will be ok, but maybe that triggered off some things for me.


In regards to him, a mutual friend tells me that my BPD is all over the place. He is raging at his ex and her family, avoiding most people, he is posting things on his social page about how awful he is, how angry he is, how exhausted he is and what a loser he is.

I am wanting to rush in and do something, but I am not really wanting to put myself in the line of fire... though I feel really hurt that he is beating himself up so badly and I want to try and stabilize him and calm him down. I wonder if my silence when usually I would have tried talking at him is increasing his upset or if he actually needs to process himself on this.

What do I do?  I would like to build the relationship back up but I don't want to cause more harm to it by rushing in. I felt so bad when I heard this stuff last night, I literally cried for almost an hour. I feel so sad for us.

[kl315]

Well, one thing it makes clear (as if you didn't know this already) is that his behavior has nothing to do with you. That it's the disorder and he will behave like this no matter what you do. If anything, I think it shows that you may have kept him closer to center than he is capable of without you. I know it's hard to see people we love in pain, even after they have hurt us.

If he is coming unglued, jumping feet first into his little one man tornado right now may not help him and may only hurt your further, especially in your current state. Maybe send him a message saying that regardless of all that has happened or what he intends for the relationship, because of your history you will always be there to lend an ear or a shoulder (if you think you're up for that and can really mean it) and even though you're not together now, you'd never completely abandon him if he really needed you.

That's probably what I would say, though I don't know if it's the right thing. I said that to a boyfriend years ago when we broke up and last year he took me up on it by showing up at my doorstep out of the blue, a total mess because his father had passed and his marriage was ending. I simpy took him in, made him a sandwich and listened for about two hours. We now have a nice, healthy friendship. He wasn't BPD though... .  however, the sentiment might help your bf in some small way.

[elemental]

The one man tornado comment made me smile. It's true.

Him and his ex and his ex's mother are a critical mass. I know he is worn out from everyone telling him how awful he is.

I do want to support him. I am hesitant because of how much projection and blaming he has been directing at me. It's shocked me a lot to understand how much.

Maybe it would help him, but I am not sure it would help me. thanks Kl   I will think on it more.

[kl315]

If you've ever flown on an airplane you've heard the flight attendants safety spiel about how, if there is a need to use the oxygen drop-down masks, adults are supposed to put on their own masks before putting on the masks of their children or other people needing their assistance. There's a reason for that. Now if I could only take my own advice... .  

[elemental]

Probably I have been too willing to take damage to myself in order to be there for him. There are many times, looking back, where I really regret not taking time for myself when things go ugly from his side of things.

Like when I found out about the baby. In retrospect I wish I had taken a couple of weeks for myself instead of agreeing to stay almost immediately. He appears not to think these things effect me.

[Cardinals in Flight]

My gut reaction, (and I've been following you elemental) is to not reach out to him.  I'm afraid for you and how it could further hurt you.  Look at how upset and down you are after hearing second hand information?  If you can, try to breathe deeply and concentrate on something else for little snipets of time until you can get through this, maybe until tomorrow?  It's another day, and when you wake up you may feel differently.

I've been deeply hurt, sick with worry about my pwBPD exactly this time last year before the official break up, so I kinda know just a teensy bit how you feel I think.  Letting time pass was always good, regardless of what intense emotion I was having at the time.

I'm really sorry about your mom, I hope she is better soon.

CiF

ps., I have had some very ugly thoughts of what I'd like to do to your b/f, I could actually be jailed for some of them too.

[elemental]

I'm not really expecting or believing there is going to be fast progress for me. Alone or with him.

My mom is on the way to recovery, thanks