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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: How did your exBPD handle arguments?  (Read 703 times)
Diana82
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« on: December 25, 2012, 07:22:17 AM »

Open question...

I didn't have loads of arguments with my exgf but when we did, they were very over dramatic.

ie once after a minor argument... my ex typed up a letter and printed it off... it was expressing her feelings and insisted she reads it aloud to me.

Another time she had a panic attack, told me her heart was pounding hard and she had breathing difficulties

and other times told sob stories of abuse (even when she was in the wrong).

I might be very resilient in arguments but her reactions just didn't seem right. Every couple argues ( of course it's a question of degree) but she didn't seem to be able to handle any. She could never be pulled up on her poor behaviour either due to her hypersensitivity



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Diana82
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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2012, 07:26:00 AM »

I forgot to add... my ex cried a fair bit if anything a little critical was said.

Our break up was over me telling her she was too defensive/snappy and inconsistent. She became even more defensive and ended up sobbing and sobbing and talking weird. She said stuff like "why do people always do this?" and "I'm a lonely person".

:/
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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 08:12:21 AM »

Sounds about the same.

My exBPDgf would be upset at people, companies, about anyone, and would write a formal letter ... .that was always very oddly worded, like a kid trying to act like an adult... lots of very formal legal wording, mixed in with emotional pleas, that kind of thing.

That was one part, another was the panic attacks, but those were only with the most dramatic/intense upset... .one was when her kid talked to her "with that voice"... which set her off about how he was turning out the way she feared. No idea what that meant, but she collapsed in a heap in her kitchen and moaned a lot... was wildly inappropriate. Another one was when I didn't want to recycle and nothing she said was working, then it was like a funny overly dramatic heart attack... which got all better when I started calling 911 and calling her on it.

The typical argument was met head on like a bulldog if she didn't have any ego invested in the outcome, she would argue rather ferociously. If it headed toward her in a more personal way the topic jumping, turning it on me, meta-level jumping (like claiming why I was asking... then counting it) would kick in and it was dizzying fast and confusing. Could end up with me wondering how something bad she did was my fault and I needed to make it up to her.

The worst arguments were about how I should treat my kid/exwife, as she would insist my kid was undisciplined/rude/going to turn out bad and that I needed to treat my exwife as the enemy. My exwife is a good person, we were married over 20 yrs, and my daughter gets national merit awards... tutors kids, is as good a kid as you could hope for... and very simply both of them were threats to my exBPDgf's comfort with a relationship.

Worst to deal with was the comply but not follow through, we would talk, I would feel like it went normal, everything is fine, plans would be set, and then she would be a no show, not say a word, and be unreachable for days. Then ask for forgiveness. That is what she did the last time we argued and I went NC... .agreed we were going to spend life together, then was just a no show. All in all it amounted to dealing with arguments like an emotional 3 yr old in a crafty lawyer body.
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FollowingBliss
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 08:13:26 AM »

My husband does the same thing, Diana. They are blind to their own faults, and its very frustrating!
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Surnia
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 08:53:26 AM »

Diana

Different perceptions:

What you name over dramatic, its maybe normal for her.

A minor argument could be so important for her that she wrote a letter and printed it out.

A argument which is not that tough for you made her a panik attack.

Excerpt
I might be very resilient in arguments but her reactions just didn't seem right.

She is different from you.  This means not she is wrong! You are not wrong either.
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“Don’t shrink. Don’t puff up. Stand on your sacred ground.”  Brené Brown
Sharkey167
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 04:30:05 PM »

She reacted like a child. Could not handle any criticism because she was sensitive like an exposed nerve. Then she would get in that "mode" where things just kept getting repeated "that won't happen to me that won't happen to me that won't happen to me" like a psychotic broken record.
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Jay08
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 04:41:53 PM »

I always thought this topic interesting, because mine acted in a COMPLETELY different way than most of your ex's.

I'd confront her calmly. She'd sit there and stare off like she was watching t.v. She had a look in her eyes like she was terrified, maybe a tear or two would fall. I'd stop talking, and she'd sit there and shrug, still staring off. I'd ask for her opinion, nothing. One more time or two, and shed yell "I DONT KNOW"

Sometimes, she would even SAY "IM MESSED UP, OKAY?,  I KNOW I AM"... I guess from my reading this is more traits of a BPD waif.

The last part really tears at me to this day. She knew something is wrong with her... she knew it.
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afterdeath
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 07:10:34 PM »

I always thought this topic interesting, because mine acted in a COMPLETELY different way than most of your ex's.

I'd confront her calmly. She'd sit there and stare off like she was watching t.v. She had a look in her eyes like she was terrified, maybe a tear or two would fall. I'd stop talking, and she'd sit there and shrug, still staring off. I'd ask for her opinion, nothing. One more time or two, and shed yell "I DONT KNOW"

Sometimes, she would even SAY "IM MESSED UP, OKAY?,  I KNOW I AM"... I guess from my reading this is more traits of a BPD waif.

The last part really tears at me to this day. She knew something is wrong with her... she knew it.

I can again relate to Jay, she would just shrug everything off and avoid my questions/comments and make her own. She never handled or confronted our arguments, she would rather ignore me and go do something else and if i had to repeat myself she would flip out. I recall her sister asking her what was wrong twice in a row and she responded after ignoring her the first time:"NOTHING IS WRONG WITH ME BUT KEEP ASKING ME AND THERE WILL BE!". From 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. DENY DENY DENY was her strategy and avoid avoid avoid. Or change subjects.
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jp254958
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 07:45:36 PM »

If she was wrong... .

1) denial that she did anything wrong

2) turned arguments around on me

3) threatened to and/or actually broke up with me

4) dissociated where she became like a zombie with an emotionless face and would just stare into the abyss of nothingness. She would be completely unreachable emotionally or rationally. She had virtually no memory retention.  She refused to be touched or hug. She made no sense and spoke in some kind of word salad and would contradict herself in the very same sentence.  She also often spoke in a monotone voice, or a very childlike voice (sort of like a 3 year old being scolded)

5) name calling

6) cold, aloof comments conveying how little I meant to her

7) walking out or running away

8) all sorts of emotional abuse

9) gaslighting - trying to distort history or past events so she could avoid being wrong or feeling shame

10) screaming, rage, or intense and disproportionate anger

11) responding “I don't know" all the time when asked to explain what she was feeling or why she said something abusive, etc.

12) refusing to acknowledge reality

13) changing the subject if she was “cornered" into why she was wrong

14) not responding / silence / silent treatment

15) hypersensitivity

16) accusations of my hypocrisy

17) many other tactics that I'm not remembering now

18) devaluing / demonizing me

19) talking in circles / repeating the same argument when it was already “disproved"

20) during our very last argument when I said she couldn't walk out on me anymore, pushing me, severely biting me, smearing me to people with false accusations of domestic violence

Usually, I would experience most or all of the above tactics in an argument, especially toward the end of a relationship.  Yet she is an absolute angel to the world around her. 


In the rare instances when I was the culprit... .

See all of the above tactics where she was wrong. 

One thing that always struck me.  She would almost NEVER cry during an argument.  When she did, it was very brief tears. She preferred rage, anger, avoidance, and dissociation.  However, she would bawl her eyes out over someone throwing trash out a car window, if she was late, if she had a slightly stressful day, etc.  Her emotions never matched the situation at hand. 
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afterdeath
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2012, 08:05:25 PM »

If she was wrong... .

1) denial that she did anything wrong

2) turned arguments around on me

3) threatened to and/or actually broke up with me

4) dissociated where she became like a zombie with an emotionless face and would just stare into the abyss of nothingness. She would be completely unreachable emotionally or rationally. She had virtually no memory retention.  She refused to be touched or hug. She made no sense and spoke in some kind of word salad and would contradict herself in the very same sentence.  She also often spoke in a monotone voice, or a very childlike voice (sort of like a 3 year old being scolded)

5) name calling

6) cold, aloof comments conveying how little I meant to her

7) walking out or running away

8) all sorts of emotional abuse

9) gaslighting - trying to distort history or past events so she could avoid being wrong or feeling shame

10) screaming, rage, or intense and disproportionate anger

11) responding “I don't know" all the time when asked to explain what she was feeling or why she said something abusive, etc.

12) refusing to acknowledge reality

13) changing the subject if she was “cornered" into why she was wrong

14) not responding / silence / silent treatment

15) hypersensitivity

16) accusations of my hypocrisy

17) many other tactics that I'm not remembering now

18) devaluing / demonizing me

19) talking in circles / repeating the same argument when it was already “disproved"

20) during our very last argument when I said she couldn't walk out on me anymore, pushing me, severely biting me, smearing me to people with false accusations of domestic violence

Usually, I would experience most or all of the above tactics in an argument, especially toward the end of a relationship.  Yet she is an absolute angel to the world around her. 


In the rare instances when I was the culprit... .

See all of the above tactics where she was wrong. 

One thing that always struck me.  She would almost NEVER cry during an argument.  When she did, it was very brief tears. She preferred rage, anger, avoidance, and dissociation.  However, she would bawl her eyes out over someone throwing trash out a car window, if she was late, if she had a slightly stressful day, etc.  Her emotions never matched the situation at hand. 

Perfect description JP thank you, nail on the head! I have a hard time putting my experience into great detail and this is perfect, my memory is also choosing to block out things that have happened and this is a great reminder to me, so thank you.
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findingmyselfagain
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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2012, 08:11:39 PM »

My r/s was nearly 2 years ago. But I don't think we ever argued about anything that seemed normal or reasonable. My biggest mistake/false belief was believing she was reasonable or felt something like I would have felt. Looking back now it all screams borderline and why did I let myself put up with so much nonsensical stress? I can hardly even wrap my brain around it 2 years later. Everything was just so all over the place. We didn't typically argue very often. She would get upset about strange things every so often. We seemed to resolve things though she would throw tantrums and act a lot like a child. I let her know how/why I felt the way I did. I was open to how she felt and taking criticism. It never seemed to matter though (my actions) b/c even a birthday gift could be intrepreted by her as something ulterior but I had to LOVE all of her gifts. It did always thoroughly confuse the devil out of me. In the end, "I didn't get her"... .to which I wholeheartedly agree. I was a very good mate, and I stood up for myself when I needed to. Everything screams "borderline" now. I wouldn't go back to that dynamic for all the money in the world. It's like my pastor said once, "No one hears of good marriages because they are BORING." I'll take BORING any day of the week.
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jp254958
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2012, 08:26:31 PM »

After, I'd say you're welcome, but I'm sure we would have preferred not dealing with all the insanity!  Just wanted love and respect. That's too much to ask for, I guess.
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afterdeath
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« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2012, 08:29:56 PM »

After, I'd say you're welcome, but I'm sure we would have preferred not dealing with all the insanity!  Just wanted love and respect. That's too much to ask for, I guess.

so dead on, Did we date the same girl? I literally told her: "Look, alls im asking for is for you to show me you love me once in a while."

Apparently i was asking too much, i didn't even ask for the respect... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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willy45
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2012, 09:40:02 PM »

oh man... .

To say that my ex 'handled' an argument would be giving her too much credit. Our arguments weren't really things we would have to argue about. Our arguments would be about her raging uncontrollably at me for some reason or another and then we would argue about why that wasn't OK. She would always say things like 'Why can't you be nice to me' or 'Why are you always yelling at me' or 'You don't like me anymore'. And the because we were arguing about arguing, the original thing that she was angry about never really got resolved. Not that there was anything to be resolved. She would rage at me for so many different things: when I was groggy, when I was upset, if I drove too fast for her liking, if pulled the sheets too much, if I came to bed late, if I rolled over in my sleep, if I didn't pay enough attention to her, if I didn't spend enough time with her, if I didn't sit beside her properly, if I didn't whatever... .it wouldn't matter... .basically if I couldn't read her mind about exactly what she wanted at any one specific point in time despite the fact that what she wanted would change on a dime.

Arg. That was the most frustrating thing in the world.
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GustheDog
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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2012, 10:34:36 PM »

As usual, I have similar details to report.  I wrote this about our arguments in another thread:

"Arguments had a clear pattern, and I feel so stupid for not recognizing this earlier.  (1) She complains, whines, criticizes, or berates me about something I either failed to do or failed to do 'properly.'  (2) I try to address it rationally but she deflects the topic and resorts to ad hominem attacks (in what I now believe was in an effort - conscious or not - to incite me to raise my voice or use foul language).  (3) I raise my voice or use foul language.  (4) She tears up and goes in her room to pout after telling me I mistreat her and that 'the way I talk to her' is abusive."

Before I found this board I would have said my ex never raged.  That's not true.  She was a waif.  She didn't really yell, she was never physically confrontational, and she never destroyed property (a couple times she slammed her bedroom door, but that's it).  Rather, she just complained, criticized, whined, and made it seem that someone (me) was constantly doing something so unconscionably wrong to her that her life was a living hell.  She would get this tormented look on her face, thrust her hand out (kind of like in a "talk to the hand" fashion), shut down, pout, and sometimes cry.  Number "3" in jp's list describes this dissociative/shut-down behavior brilliantly.

I also had a habit of asking her "What's wrong?", because she'd frequently get these wide eyes and have her mouth kind of half open - a face you or I might make if something disgusted us.  She hated this questioning immensely.  My purpose in asking (and it became reflexive for me) was because I wanted to defuse whatever tension I perceived her to be experiencing before we went through yet another of the "arguments" described above.  At the end she cited this questioning of her facial expressions when going through her laundry list of reasons for hating me.  She apparently felt it was "incredibly invasive."

I really thought this was all my fault, especially because my father was verbally abusive growing up and he basically eroded my self-esteem to nothing.  He made me feel that I could do nothing properly or well enough to pass muster.  He would also explode arbitrarily, so yes, "eggshells" with him, too.  Anyway, I've endeavored to never be like my father in the way I treat other people, yet I'm also terrified of "becoming" him despite such efforts.  My ex knew all about my childhood.  She even said, "You are your father," during the devaluation period.  The funny thing is that, no, I'm not - at all.  She is!  She might not scream, but other than that they're the same person.

But I should note when we weren't having a pseudo-argument, she made me feel very loved and appreciated.  That's why the short-yet-severe devaluation phase, followed by her jettisoning me from her life entirely, came as such a trauma.
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willy45
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2012, 10:46:18 PM »

Hey Gus,

The same thing would happen to me. Almost exactly the way you described it. Here is how a typical fight would happen. Maybe this sounds familiar even though the details might be different:

One night she wanted to go out for dinner. She got home late from work. It was 8pm. She was getting cranky with low blood sugar levels. I said, how about we just order in. She said OK. Then I told her I would pick up the food. And then she said we should go together. I was doing some work. So I asked her if she would pick it up. She said OK. So she went. When she came back, she was starting to rage. She said: "I don't understand why we didn't go out for dinner?" I stopped her in her tracks because I knew where this was going. I told her to stop. That she was the one who was late from work. That she agreed to get take out. That she offered to go get it. We sat down and ate. An hour later, she came storming down the stairs and yelled at, screaming: "YOU JUST THINK I'M A CRAZY F*CKING B*TCH!" And I just looked at her and said, no, I don't think that, I wasn't thinking that at all. And then she stormed back upstairs and cried for two hours. I went upstairs and she blamed me for my 'tone' and told me that 'we have communication issues'.

That was a pretty average night for me. But it was the beginning of the end. The only difference between this and other so-called 'fights' was that I was fed up. I saw the rage coming. And I tried to stop it in its tracks. I told her to stop and called her out on her inconsistency. And then when started to yell at me and accused me of thinking she was a crazy f'ing b*tch, I didn't argue. I just sat there. I would have normally just yelled back. But I didn't care anymore. I just said: "What are you talking about? Why would you say that?" Nothing else. I was tired of getting sucked into a fight that would make me look like the bad guy again.
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GustheDog
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2012, 11:21:32 PM »

HAHAHA - I can attest to that same sequence of events occurring countless times.  Furthermore, later on, she could point to things like getting take out instead of going out to eat to demonstrate that I lack social skills and don't like being around people.  Even though she agreed to those plans, or perhaps even suggested them herself.  Alter the details, retain the pattern, and you have our entire relationship.  I don't know if anyone here is a musician, but it became like the 12-bar blues.  You can change the instruments, the tempo, the key, the tonality, etc., but the 1-4-1-5-4-1 progression never changes.

Also amusing: She asked me what my Myers-Briggs type was at the beginning of our relationship.  I told her: INTJ.  She thought it was just marvelous to be dating such a rational, no-nonsense type of man.  She would go on and on about it, to me, to her mother, to her friends, etc.  Apparently forgetting she'd asked me two years earlier (she forgot TONS of stuff), near the end of the relationship she asked me my type again.  So, again, I told her: INTJ.  A few weeks later, even THIS was used against me - see, she's an extrovert, and she wants nothing to do with a socially-awkward, introverted man who tries to manipulate her into being someone "that's not who she is."
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afterdeath
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2012, 11:26:33 PM »

Two Fights i just remembered over the dumbest things:

1. I did the dishes and filled up the dishwasher, the bottom half was pretty much full it couldnt fit anything else and all the baby bottles were in the top so i figured i'd run it to clean them. She came home from work and said did you run the dishwasher? Like a dog i was smiling getting ready to pat myself on the back for a good job and i said yup! She opened it and said, it's only half full, don't run the dishwasher when it's only half full! I was like what? I can't really fit anything else in there?

That broke into a minor fight, but after that i would catch her running the dish washer with even less than i had in it, again she would cite it was ok if she did it.

2. When we moved back in with her dad after our lease was up she screamed at me to make sure the garage door was shut and locked if i was not going to be upstairs. Ok. I get home one night alone as she was out, and the screen door is open... .She came home and i asked her why the door was open? She flipped out and called me a smart ass and said my comment was not needed. Can't win. I wasn't sure if someone had been in the house or what was going on and she chose to turn it into a fight since she told me to lock the door she assumed i was scolding her for leaving it open and being a smart ass about it... .ugh... .
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« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2012, 11:32:24 PM »

I have had the take out thing turn in to anti social as well, and am INTJ and was given grief about that... starting to think all the pwBPD follow the same script. My exBPDgf was ENJF but no waif... people said she was strongest woman they knew... .from her public storming/moralizing... of course they didn't see all the odd behavior.

Did anyone else have trouble with grudges? Mine would throw a fit, then cool off a bit, try to get me back happy (without apologizing or taking any responsibility)... then whatever she had been upset about was going to come up later.

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« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2012, 11:42:25 PM »

Well, yeah, mine never apologized (or may have said the words but it was just her going through the motions, not experiencing remorse) and she kitchen-sinked problems and issues I didn't even know existed when breaking up with me, as well as citing things that happened in the first weeks of our 2.5-year r/s.

When she left, I told her I'd be happy to cooperate with her to ship all her furniture back to her in exchange for a meaningful explanation and apology for her actions - especially since the devaluation and break up came a month after she kept talking marriage.  Needless to say, I've still got the furniture 3 months later... .
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« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2012, 11:56:11 PM »

Well, yeah, mine never apologized (or may have said the words but it was just her going through the motions, not experiencing remorse) and she kitchen-sinked problems and issues I didn't even know existed when breaking up with me, as well as citing things that happened in the first weeks of our 2.5-year r/s.

When she left, I told her I'd be happy to cooperate with her to ship all her furniture back to her in exchange for a meaningful explanation and apology for her actions - especially since the devaluation and break up came a month after she kept talking marriage.  Needless to say, I've still got the furniture 3 months later... .

Lucky you, i lost mine, she has the bed,tv, everything, even the nice little super dad mug... $500 camera... .i'm so stupid, at least i got the engagement ring back, wasn't hard to get back when she wasn't wearing it the whole last week
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Diana82
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« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2012, 11:57:04 PM »

So what about panic attacks and playing the victim?

My ex had snapped rudely at me one night and rolled over in bed to ignore me. I didn't want to stay over at hers anymore so I started to pack my stuff and say I'm going out with friends.

She FREAKED! I ended up staying at hers anyway but in the night she got up and sat in her living room and apparently had a panic attack. Next day she sobbed "I had a really bad night" and we started talking about her low libido problems and she told me " you're not sexually satisfied with me and that's not good"... Like she was pushing me away... But then she told me her ex had tried to rape her. It came out of nowhere... AND this ex was always portrayed as being frigid and boring in bed... now she changes her story after 2.5 years!

I ended up feeling sorry for her. I did not get an apology for her being so rude to me... she got my sympathy totally. I felt terrible she had "almost been raped" and she was so fragile. I felt so bad I had tried to leave her place and made her feel so upset.

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Diana82
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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2012, 12:02:49 AM »

And when my ex was dumping me (following our fight about me telling her she's too inconsistent), she told me "Everytime we argue... I emotionally disconnected a little more every time".

So in other words by the time we were breaking up she had completely disconnected? But it's as if we were fighting for weeks...

We had 3 fights in total over 3 years
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« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2012, 12:04:56 AM »

We argued about everything.  I never won.  Even when I knew she was delusional I sill never won.  I tried to stop, but she would hold grudges for days and leave and not return until she was able to vent the anger.

The issue is why did I stick around and why was I satisfied with a such a toxic situation? In the end, argument and make up sex were the essence of our interaction.  Between my insecurities and her BPD, it was truely pathetic.  

So why was it enough.  Why couldn't I get out of it.  Why do I forget and still think that we could have something different.

It's because of my FOO and last of self esteem.  I've come to realize that arguments for us was a way to confirm that we were still connected.  I was responsible for half the destruction.  I was a trigger.  I participated.  I didn't leave for three years.  And the pain and destruction was at least familiar.   It was better than having to go through the abandonment depression that I knew that we both needed in order to grow beyond our pathetic current selves.  

I'm doing it now. Doing the self work.  She chose (but may not have had the choice) to paint me black, forget and lay with another man.

Argument analysis with my ex is only beneficial in examining my dynamics, responses and acceptance of the disorder in my life.  And in part it was because the familiar pain and shame and hatred was less scary than moving forward into unfamiliar self growth.

It's not true today.

In hope,

SP
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Diana82
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2012, 03:53:23 AM »

Do you think it's likely she faked a panic attack to get attention... just like she told me how her ex almost "raped her"?  Just because she feared abandonment... .

To me... Walking out on someone after a fight is not ideal - but it isn't the most horrible thing ever. People storm off all the time if they are upset or you say hurtful things. How many of you have ever stormed off when you've been fed up? It isn't something I do often mind you.

Yet to my ex- it may have appeared like I was leaving her... ?

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willy45
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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2012, 05:57:46 AM »

Hi Diana82,

I stormed off all the time. Pretty much every fight we would have. Why? Because the arguments never went anywhere. She never listened to me. I would be talking and I would just see her trying to think about the next thing she was going to say. And the arguments were non-sensisical. We argued because I pet the dog in the morning when I was groggy. We argued because I wouldn't sit down next to her when she was having breakfast. We argued because I didn't want to take my bike on the metro. We argued because I was late picking her up because I was stuck in traffic. We argued because she didn't feel 'connected' to me.

What I realized was that we always argued because I didn't do what she wanted at the time that she wanted it. I couldn't read her mind and I couldn't do exactly as she wanted, when she wanted it. And I would storm off. Pretty much every time. I was exacerbated. Where was the resolution? There was never any hope of resolution unless I just took all the blame for her behavior. One fight when I didn't want to sit down with her at breakfast (she slept in until 2pm and I was already up for 5 hours and going stir crazy because we planned on doing something together that day), she looked up at me after calling me an ___hole and said: "You see? All you had to do was sit down next to me and you would have avoided all this." WHAT? I was waiting for her for 5 hours and I wasn't rude to her at all, I just told her I was going stir crazy and for her to eat so we could get going like we planned the night before. But the fight was my fault because I didn't want to sit beside her. Not because she was basically 5 hours late. And then the pity party about her evil ex who would storm out on her. The one who was apparently abusive towards her. The ex that she cheated on with at least 4 other men (that I know of!). And now all of sudden the fight was about how she was abused in her previous relationship and how I showed the same patterns of behavior and why she chose to be with abusive men. REALLY? She was the one calling me an ___hole? All I said was that I was going stir crazy and didn't feel like sitting down beside her because I had literally been sitting there for 5 hours waiting for her to wake up and I was going to go nuts. I didn't yell at her. I wasn't even mad at her. I didn't even think to be mad. I was understanding that she needed to sleep in. But instead, I was now just like her ex?

So, don't feel bad if you stormed off. What else are you supposed to do? Just be a human doormat and take whatever BS is coming your way? Storming off is not ideal. That's for sure. But it is way better to do that than to just take whatever abuse is going to be hurled at you and have a conversation spiral into never-never land.
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Diana82
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2012, 12:15:44 AM »

Lol I certainly did not want to be a doormat. 

I do think I could have handled myself better in that argument, however.

I remember how embarrassed I felt that my ex had shouted at me in a cafe "I DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY MYSELF TO YOU OK!" after I had asked her why she had sent me a nude photo via text randomly. It wasn't like I was asking her something terrible...

I was genuinely perplexed as to why she suddenly decided to send me a nude photo  when in the 3 years we were together she had said firmly she would NEVER send me such ever.  She was always very conservative too.

How can you then randomly change your mind? And not expect your partner to ask why they receive a nude shot in their phone suddenly ? Of course it's nice  but it does raise questions...

Instead of confronting her in the cafe and telling her to not speak to me that way, I went home and stewed over it. I cried. Everything she had ever been inconsistent about filled my head and I exploded in a rage... .I brought up silly examples that didn't help my case.

Then she could brand me easily as the crazy one
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charred
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2012, 12:47:51 AM »

What I realized was that we always argued because I didn't do what she wanted at the time that she wanted it.

That quote pretty well sums up the situation, thinking back. My exBPDgf was bossy, judgmental, overbearing, critical, hateful... .and would freak whenever I was going to leave as a result of her verbal abuse... grab my keys, stop me from carrying my suitcase out, whatever it took, she would freak. Some people have pointed out that it was like there were 3 or 4 distinct personalities, or scripts you were working with and that seems true. There was a seductive/happy/horny personality that seemed ever present at first and then was less and less, till all but gone at the end. There was a moralistic, arguing, judgmental, holier than thou one, that appeared any time I didn't do what she wanted, when she wanted it. There was a freaked out, panic stricken one that was nearly inarticulate, that was like the embodiment of desperation. And an icy cold bhit that had no empathy for anything or anyone. And never did any of them meet(though they made up a train wreck) or seem to exchange any information.

Now it is easier to see the different persona, as she still tries to get a rise out of me, but it is like she is cycling through them... sweet I miss you stuff, judgmental its all your fault stuff, an I can't live without you one, a desperate one, and then the cold bhit... how can I tell, her FB pages... which I should avoid, but have a morbid force drawing me to at times... she posts memes with all the stuff on it, or quotes... things like a Christmas tree with a  comment about wishing a certain person were under it more than anything, then stuff like each of those other persona... honestly at this point it seems almost like she is stuck in a loop of some kind. Has anyone else noticed these things and figured out if it is the same order repeating? Are they stuck? Is it that simple?

I need to meet someone else that is kinda hot and just move on... noticing that dwelling on it is not helping anything other than my understanding that it was one adult and one mess of a person, not two adults in the relationship. The sweet charming persona was tugging at me, glad the others showed, I am going to ignore the train wreck's siren song and get some sleep.

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Yolo
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2012, 01:17:39 AM »

Diana...

There are always two sides to every story.  

Everyone has their perception of reality to themselves. And to them it is very real.  In somuch as our perceptions were real, so were our Ex's and that is a very important take-away from our experience with them.

Sometimes we can NOT understand their perception because our wiring is so fundamentally different.  It will never make sense to us... .those of us that feel we are the 'norm'... .

What is important is how we percieve reality... .it is what it is for us.

At a certain point we have to understand that we simply can not process "reality" in the same way, and it will never happen with certain people no matter how much we would like to understand it.

The best we can do, especially us that are in the same boat as you, is understand why it isn't possible.  And to learn to accept that reality... .they are really very limited in their scope of understanding.

We have to accept that... accept we did what we could at that point in time and try to figure out what we must do in the future.  Be it recognising something about ourselves we need to work on... .or be it avoiding certian personality types to allow ourselves to become enmeshed in.

The common threat is figuring some things out for yourself and when is working or not working for you in your choices.

It is shifting the focus a little from her or your past and onto yourself.

You are worthy, you are great, your are concerned, you aren't whatever she is making you out to be now so it should be somewhat laughable.  

I am pretty smart and somewhat attractive, and caucasion, and have genius children... .so if my Ex tries to tell me (and spread the word) that I'm retarded, ugly, american indian, with dumb "sand ape" children {sorry his words]... .I can laugh at it and anyone worth my time will either know its not true or will give me the time of day to understand that is not true.

It seems to me that right now you are trying to figure out what happened, and I think most of us can understand that... .but she seems very unpredictable and could be disordered... .so maybe you are desperately seeking validation on this forum that you arent crazy for wanting to understand?

Of course you aren't out of your rights to want to understand.

I think reading a lot of the posts from the member 2010 pretty much sealed the deal with me and probably several others posting her right now.

It isn't a workshop or anything... she was a member that had a real traumatic experience then offered her wisdom to many along her way and you will see her posted.

I'd be interested in seeing what you post after you read some of her information.

Much love Diana82!  I know you want to understand... .and can sense you deperately want to understand. A testament to your love and commitment to her... .since you may never get it directly from her, please read up on the Lessons here and the 2010 posts.  You won't regret it I promise  
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GustheDog
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2012, 02:20:29 AM »

What I realized was that we always argued because I didn't do what she wanted at the time that she wanted it.

That quote pretty well sums up the situation, thinking back. My exBPDgf was bossy, judgmental, overbearing, critical, hateful... .and would freak whenever I was going to leave as a result of her verbal abuse... grab my keys, stop me from carrying my suitcase out, whatever it took, she would freak. Some people have pointed out that it was like there were 3 or 4 distinct personalities, or scripts you were working with and that seems true. There was a seductive/happy/horny personality that seemed ever present at first and then was less and less, till all but gone at the end. There was a moralistic, arguing, judgmental, holier than thou one, that appeared any time I didn't do what she wanted, when she wanted it. There was a freaked out, panic stricken one that was nearly inarticulate, that was like the embodiment of desperation. And an icy cold bhit that had no empathy for anything or anyone. And never did any of them meet(though they made up a train wreck) or seem to exchange any information.

Now it is easier to see the different persona, as she still tries to get a rise out of me, but it is like she is cycling through them... sweet I miss you stuff, judgmental its all your fault stuff, an I can't live without you one, a desperate one, and then the cold bhit... how can I tell, her FB pages... which I should avoid, but have a morbid force drawing me to at times... she posts memes with all the stuff on it, or quotes... things like a Christmas tree with a  comment about wishing a certain person were under it more than anything, then stuff like each of those other persona... honestly at this point it seems almost like she is stuck in a loop of some kind. Has anyone else noticed these things and figured out if it is the same order repeating? Are they stuck? Is it that simple?

I need to meet someone else that is kinda hot and just move on... noticing that dwelling on it is not helping anything other than my understanding that it was one adult and one mess of a person, not two adults in the relationship. The sweet charming persona was tugging at me, glad the others showed, I am going to ignore the train wreck's siren song and get some sleep.

First, credit to the "argument = not doing what she wanted precisely when she wanted it."

As to the multiple persona thing - yes, I saw all of them, but I didn't see the cold, detached, devoid-of-empathy one until the end.  The judgmental one came out often - to criticize, complain, bhit, moan, etc.  This woman got mad because my pea coat needed hemming.  She also insisted I get SURGERY to fix my snoring problem (I did not do so).  And so on... .  The panicky, blathering one came out here and there (and I know what you mean about the being inarticulate - I used to say, "Use your words... .", but what would usually happen is I would soothe her and then she'd feel better, shifting back to sweet, loving girlfriend.

She said her previous bf used to tell her she had multiple personalities and that he deemed that Katy Perry "Hot and Cold" song "her song."  I'm thinking about reaching out to this guy, who I formerly thought ill of, because I too was informed that he had raped her.  I can only imagine what this woman says about me now.  Who knows?  Lose a girl, make a friend... .

Anyway, at the very end I saw tons of very disturbing dissociation and very rapid cycling between these "personalities" - much more abrupt and rapid than ever before.  And then the cold, indifferent one took over completely and she was gone.  Frankly, it's creepy.  She hated horror movies, but the way she behaved at the end reminds of one - a very effective one.  It haunts me a little bit, to be honest.
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