Is the "Silent Treatment" rage or shame?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all!

Just curious and seeking opinions. I was dumped in October of this year by uBPDbf. Bailed on me after two months of co-habitating (at his insistence). I won't bore y'all with the details on that. What I'm curious about is a couple of things:

As far as I can tell - I was never "split black" with ex. He was not raging at me when he left and I even got a crappy, "sort of" apology letter from him when he mailed my house/car keys back to me. Didn't have the guts to face me. Said in the letter that he had "hurt me terribly, in many ways, and deserved no forgiveness". Whatever.

However, all of my attempts at contact over the next six weeks went unanswered. All calls went to voice mail. All texts ignored. All FB messages were read consistently but never a response. Now, he never blocked me or did any type of smear campaign. He told everyone who asked about us that it was all him. No reflection on me.

So - is the "Silent Treatment" from shame or rage? I know it's a form of emotional abuse and that it totally devalues the Non. It seriously pissed me off, too!    But it seems he's dealing with extreme guilt and shame rather than anger. I would appreciate any and all opinions on this.

Another interesting thing - he's taken to "poking" me on FB. I don't respond. Also, he purchased a subscription of sorts for me in September. This is a three-month ongoing renewal thing. He just renewed it for me again. Why? Seems kind of stupid since he's back with his spouse. Why bother paying for something of mine? And is distance a factor with BPD's?  Mine lives two hours away from me now - I moved at the end of October after his little stunt.

Thanks all & Happy New Year ! 

[lipstick]

Hi all!

Just curious and seeking opinions. I was dumped in October of this year by uBPDbf. Bailed on me after two months of co-habitating (at his insistence). I won't bore y'all with the details on that. What I'm curious about is a couple of things:

As far as I can tell - I was never "split black" with ex. He was not raging at me when he left and I even got a crappy, "sort of" apology letter from him when he mailed my house/car keys back to me. Didn't have the guts to face me. Said in the letter that he had "hurt me terribly, in many ways, and deserved no forgiveness". Whatever.

However, all of my attempts at contact over the next six weeks went unanswered. All calls went to voice mail. All texts ignored. All FB messages were read consistently but never a response. Now, he never blocked me or did any type of smear campaign. He told everyone who asked about us that it was all him. No reflection on me.

So - is the "Silent Treatment" from shame or rage? I know it's a form of emotional abuse and that it totally devalues the Non. It seriously pissed me off, too!    But it seems he's dealing with extreme guilt and shame rather than anger. I would appreciate any and all opinions on this.

Another interesting thing - he's taken to "poking" me on FB. I don't respond. Also, he purchased a subscription of sorts for me in September. This is a three-month ongoing renewal thing. He just renewed it for me again. Why? Seems kind of stupid since he's back with his spouse. Why bother paying for something of mine? And is distance a factor with BPD's?  Mine lives two hours away from me now - I moved at the end of October after his little stunt.

Thanks all & Happy New Year ! 

[Justadude]

games. he broke up with you. he did the right thing by going no contact. it pissed you off for your own personal issues with that.

i think the facebook poking is him not completely letting go and the subscription purchase is guilt. most importantly he may want to get some booty in the future from an old acquaintance.

[lipstick]

JustaDude - Oh, geez. I never thought about a "booty call". Yuck. 

The "Silent Treatment" pissed me off because I felt like I deserved an explanation for the "dumping". There was nothing in his ridiculous letter except how sorry he was about my birthday (two days after he dumped me) and that he hoped my life got better. No explanation. Nothing.

I don't think he would have the guts to ever face me in person again.

Thanks for your input, though. Much appreciated.

[lipstick]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that he began some very self-destructive behaviors the night he left me. Heavy drinking and reckless driving among them.

I'm soo much better off. 

[Jay08]

Sounds like you possibly had a waif type. Waif men are rare.

Waifs are arguably the biggest confusement of them all. I say this because like you've explained, he did not have a tendency to rage. My ex was exactly like this. I even find myself some days "feeling bad" about the relationship because whenever we argued, she would not yell back, she would not argue my points, she would simply sit there and from time to time shed a tear.

This was very damaging to me, because reflecting back it makes me feel upset at myself the way i acted in an argument compared to her. Although i know her motivations and responses were purely manipulative, its harder to see that compared to her physical response. In conclusion, i tend to remember much more of her good qualities than her bad ones because of this.

They will even "apologize", but they do not mean it. Like an above poster has said, they do not feel guilt, they feel shame and shame alone. They know what they did was wrong on a certain level, but they atone this to their character in general. They associate their actions with their own inability to control impulsive behavior.

My ex cheated on me multiple times i found out after we broke up. One time i did find out, and confronted her. She denied it, and will deny it to her death. But in one rare moment i confronted her when she was in a state of normalcy, i could see in her eyes she knew what she did was not right. The look however, was not the look of someone who felt bad, but the look of "i do not know why i do what i do".

Be advised, if he is a true waif you may have been cheated on many times. When you are not with them, they assume you may leave them. To them you may abandon them for someone else when you are not with them, to counter this feeling they find someone else to validate them, often with sexual promiscuity because to them, sex is a power tool to build love. They can go out one night, have sex with multiple partners, than the next day lie next to you like nothing ever happend. Very dangerous lifestyle to live.

[lipstick]

Jay - yes, he very well may have been a "Waif" male. He definitely wasn't cheating on me physically. But he was "triangulating (read definition)". He was talking / meeting with his spouse behind my back and negotiating the terms of his return home. His marriage is a joke. They're both BPD as far as I can tell. She's alcoholic and violent. He's alcoholic and can be verbally abusive. Never was to me, but I've heard stories. He also had a fear of confrontation. Was trying to avoid that with me at all costs.

Several of his acquaintances are familiar with his home situation. No physical intimacy. Apparently, that ended about thirteen or fourteen years ago. Violence, drinking, raging - all common themes. He was never this way with me - but perhaps he was "mirroring" me? She acts out in public - throws things at him, hits him, curses, etc... Sounds lovely, eh?

He is aware that something is wrong with him. Even speaks of his "lizard brain" and the path of destruction that he's created over the years. Of course, not knowing anything about BPD at the time, I just kind of shrugged it off as a reference to his horrid marriage / spouse. Calls himself a "monster". So there is some self-awareness. Also said that one of the reasons that he was leaving me was that he loved me too much to continue destroying me. And he was.

But here's the thing - even as teenagers he followed a specific pattern with me. He would pi$$ me off, I would break up with him - then he'd come around after a time. Can't remember how long - it's been almost thirty years since I was in high school !  :-)  So, I don't think I've seen the last of him... .  

[Jay08]

Yep, we've all seen the look.

If you stay with them long enough, you will know the look. They have a few.

To this day, i still remember walking downstairs one day to my ex drinking by herself staring at a t.v. that was turned off. She looked at me with glossy eyes. It was like a little kid just seen a ghost. They truely are self aware that something is wrong with them, they are scared. And if their alone, they are battling themselves. She has said to me a few times "My head doesnt work like normal peoples"

I look back at that day i seen her, and i shed a tear for her. Deep down they know it.

[elemental]

You ended up being placed in a very bad psoition here. He has unresolved issues with a marriage that has not officially been wrapped up. These sorts of situations are nortorious for the married person to "cake eat" by going back and forth between their spouse and the new partner.

I am doubtful he has been fully honest with you... probably you pretty much know that.

When he stabilizes and stops panicking over things, he will come back round. And likely go back and forth as long as you don't tell his wife or put pressure on him.

Personally I would state to him that until he sorts his marriage out, you will not be available for anything. It will save you an enormous amount of pain, confusion and time to focus on your own life and stabilizing your life again. When he comes back around, you will be in a strong position and less vulnerable to getting sucked into this kind of circus.

Aside from that, my bf gives me silent treatment for a variety of reasons as far as I have been able to tell: he is angry, he knows how much it hurts me, he likes the power and control, he wants to punish, he wants to be cruel, he calms down after being angry and becomes ashamed and self protective. And continues the silent treatment on the basis that he is not willing to face up to me for the hurt he has caused and he is afraid it will blow up again.


Yours has been up to things and not sharing and is ashamed. He is right, you should avoid him while he is like this. It's his problem to sort, not yours.

[Jay08]

And lipstick, you are correct about everything. From what i've read, cluster b's who find one another never fully leave each other. It takes one psychopath to keep in check another psychopath.

Those two will never fully leave each other. And like you've explained, he keeps tabs on you. This is so he can feel he has a fallback option. Im sure deep down there is some type of infatuation with you he has, it is not love though.

My ex dad left her when she was a baby, im positive this is why she is the way she is. I remember reflecting on our relationship when i was alone and thinking, "its like she likes me because i think she believes i have "dad" characteristics she needs". She was deeply infatuated with me because i probably had dad qualities she liked and 'needed'. I let her take down my boundaries for way to long however.

[lipstick]

Yes, Jay - the "look". Mine could go almost comatose. Mouth kind of hanging open, eyes closed, unresponsive. When I would bring him out of it - he said his brain felt like it was full of cotton. This happened on the Sunday before he dumped me. They know... .  

[lipstick]

Elemental - thank you for your insight on this. It's been three months of "Silent Treatment" from him. Isn't that kind of a long time to stabilize? I know the holidays are a HUGE trigger for him. His family has this annual event around Xmas that is very special to him. I know he was stressing that as the holidays were fast approaching us. Now that the holidays are almost behind us - does that mean he's going to calm down?  Grreaaatttt... .  

I also know thru a mutual friend that he is having financial difficulties on the homefront. Wifey likes to spend $$ on booze and whatnot and ignore the bills. So he has taken on a second job to supplement their income. He has physical problems and being on his feet for 12-14 hrs. a day is NOT a good thing with his ailments.

Yes, I agree that he is deeply ashamed of his behavior with me. His friends have told me in private how proud he was of me and that they had never seen him so focused and happy.

I won't be available to him if and when he comes around. My ex and I are working on our issues and doing a fine job of it.

Getting the Silent Treatment from your bf. How do you deal with that, elemental?  Do you live with him? What are your coping strategies?

[bpdspell]

Hey lipstick,  

You are certainly in a very compromising decision but you have the power and authority to make a decision based on the facts. The facts are: your BPD has irresponsibly left you and returned to his wife. It really doesn't matter who she is; what matters is that he's made a choice to leave you and be with her. He in essence has abandoned and has shown you that he is untrustworthy, unstable, and emotionally immature. Accept the truth of his behavior.

I understand your desire for closure but if he is BPD this means he is mentally ill. Accepting this is hard but you will never be able to decipher the whys of his actions or behavior. The only thing you have the power to do is to look after yourself.

As for the cyber stalking, poking, he may miss you; perhaps even have feelings of love but those feelings will never overpower his disorder. His disorder is a part of him and has been with him way before you entered the picture. He will need years and years of professional therapeutic help to combat his self-destructive ways and only he can commit to that for himself.

I can tell you are still hopeful of him coming back and making amends but if he is truly BPD he will be triggered and he will never be a man capable of giving you mature and reciprocally healthy love. Once the idealization of the relationship has waned then out comes the reality of their disordered character. Take yourself out of the triangle. If he and his wife are "crazy" then take yourself of the equation and take your power back.

You are not losing him and more than likely he will never leave his wife. Even if he does you will have to deal with him and his disorder. He is showing you who he is. I know you left your husband for him and that in itself is a huge risk but understand that a person with BPD will always show you who they are. The silent treatment is only the tip of the iceberg in what  a disordered person is capable of.

Spell

[lipstick]

Jay - yes, I've come to understand their "enmeshment" with each other. I could never stay in a situation like that, but I guess they feed off of each other. They both hate each other, but won't leave. Madness.

Not to sound vain - this isn't coming from vanity  - but yes, he is infatuated with me. Goes all the way back to when we were teenagers. Plus, he looves classy southern ladies. Such a polar opposite of his spouse. She's very trashy.

His biological father was abusive and alcoholic. Beat the holy hell out of bf when he was just a little guy because bf didn't clean the garage properly. That's just one example. BF's mom has gone thru three husbands of her own. She's an alcoholic, too. Shipped BF off to military school during his senior year in HS. So he definitely has his childhood issues.

**Sigh**. Such a sad, complex disorder. I hate it for him, but I don't want to be in that madness !

[lipstick]

Spell - thank you for your insight. Yes, I do want to reconnect with him, I'm sad to say. Why? Looking for validation, I suppose. I realize it's in my best interest not to do so. I moved back to my hometown to avoid dealing with him. I hope that being two hours away will stop him from showing up.

I suppose a part of me is jealous of the spouse. That she "won". That she got him and I didn't. Messed up thinking. I can't help but wonder what she had to offer that I didn't. Well, plenty of crazy, I guess.

It still hurts, but a little less every day. And I know my life is WAY better than his and always will be.

[bpdspell]

Spell - thank you for your insight. Yes, I do want to reconnect with him, I'm sad to say. Why? Looking for validation, I suppose. I realize it's in my best interest not to do so. I moved back to my hometown to avoid dealing with him. I hope that being two hours away will stop him from showing up.

I suppose a part of me is jealous of the spouse. That she "won". That she got him and I didn't. Messed up thinking. I can't help but wonder what she had to offer that I didn't. Well, plenty of crazy, I guess.

It still hurts, but a little less every day. And I know my life is WAY better than his and always will be.

Hey lipstick,

You're hurt, saddened and your ego is bruised due to the emotional triangulation (read definition). On the other side of town he's with "her" and it burns. I completely can relate. I understand its vexing. My ex often used his daughter's mother as backup bait and it put me in comparison competition mode. I was on the defense wondering what could I do to ultimately win him over. And he loved every second of the good and bad attention because HE was in the center. I often compared myself to her and felt angered that she would always be there for him no matter how bad he treated her. It didn't matter to her that he was smitten and infatuated with me. In the end she would always be the loyal hound dog with the bone in her mouth waiting patiently for her master to come home. She was his "Ace in the Hole", his guaranteed sucker and I couldn't really compete with that cause I'd always lose. The only way I was gonna win was to take myself off the roller coaster.

I was married too. To a wonderful man but our marriage was passionless. Of course the BPD totally made up for that in every sense of the word but then the crazy came out and all hell broke loose. I was devastated and alone when the BPD broke the last straw over the camel's back. My prince charming turned into a frog; warts and all. I finally had to have a sit down and a heart to heart with me.

Lipstick. Have you asked yourself why do you seek to be validated by a mentally ill person? What can he possible say or do that will validate your worth or esteem? What can he possibly give you that will make you feel better about yourself?

If you seek validation. Seek it here on this forum. Seek it with your therapist. Your BPD can only validate that he's suffering with a mental disorder and the proof is his actions.

Spell

[lipstick]

Spell - your post sounded exactly like what I was dealing with. Yes, the ego took a major hit. I couldn't understand what he saw in "that". She's quite a bit older than him, violent, abusive, alcoholic. Unattractive (okay, more ego here!).  I also couldn't understand how she could just take him back knowing that he had been in another woman's bed for the last six months or so. But it's the illness. All about the illness. I remember one email she sent to him telling him that when he was done playing with his "teeny-bopper" (me), to come on home. Geez. 

I too was married to a wonderful man / passionless marriage. He wants me back, but we know we have to work on all of our issues and we are doing so. I moved into my own place upon my return to my hometown and we are "dating" and getting counseling.

I don't know if I want validation or just an opportunity to tell him off face-to-face. That would feel soo good!

I guess the two of them feed off of each other. Each fears abandonment from the other and that keeps them going. Plus, she'll stay up all night drinking with him and I won't. He rarely drank around me - but maybe he was "mirroring". Don't know. It makes me sad knowing that someone that was so important to me for such a long time isn't really who I thought he was. And that he'll never get help. He'll stay in that miserable situation. Oh, well. Not my problem.

[bpdspell]

I couldn't understand what he saw in "that". She's quite a bit older than him, violent, abusive, alcoholic. Unattractive (okay, more ego here!).  I also couldn't understand how she could just take him back knowing that he had been in another woman's bed for the last six months or so.

The same way your husband can take you back after leaving him for another man is the same way your BPDex will always has his ace in the hole. My ex's baby mama wasn't all that cute either but she's dependable, familiar and reliable. As long as she's there he'll never stand on his own two feet.

Like I stated. A mentally ill person could never validate you or your worth so stop giving him that power. That power is for you to own so take it back. Work on your issues and look within. All your answers to healing are there.

Spell

[daybreak]

Lipstick;   I have somewhat of a similar story to yours in that my waif BPD highschool sweetheart came back into my life after forty years.  I didn't get a divorce,  but came close.

You actually have two separate major issues going on... .  the "lost and found love" from your youth AND the BPD relationship.  These two very painful situations have many overlapping issues.

There are a couple of sites online that deal with "old flames"... .  "Lost and found Lovers' will give you lots of information regarding this issue that is somewhat of an epidemic today, while this site for BPD is an incredible gift.  You need to study the vast amount of information found here... .  and utilize the boards.

Getting past the BPD relationship is the most difficult thing (emotionally) I've ever done.  It's a process and a journey... .  it takes lots of time.  Good luck!

PS... if you haven't figured it out yet... he was BPD in highschool too.

[elemental]

Lipstick, I am over on the staying board for now.

When he started the silent treatment in the beginning, I didn't understand. I was upset not to be able to reach him for a weekend. I asked him after he came back where he was and he lied to me, claiming his cell phone wasn't working. I believed him then. I believed until one day he did it, he was clearly angry, he blocked access and then made sure I could see him happily ( it seemed) going about his life. It was horrible. I was devastated. Asking him what happened... he blamed me.

He began to utilize this as a means of retaliating, control, abuse. I tried talking to him encouraging more productive ways of handling things... but it has become worse and worse. I have tried patience for a week or so, waited politely but he won't come "back" until I am on my knees crying and begging, apologizing, telling him it's all my fault, I will change, it won't happen again... * bitter laugh

I have broken down and raged at him over it, lashed out, retaliated in ways that only made it worse... honestly just telling you this reminds me of the crushing pain and anger I have felt, how traumatizing it has been, how helpless I have felt. I have reached points in the last 3 months of feeling "ok you %#(__$^@) SOB, if you want a fight, you just got one!"

And I gave him a few. End result? Now he has seized the opportunity to for real be able to point out that I am unstable, playing the victim, insane, uncaring of the feelings of others. He has shamed and guilted and punished and humiliated me. And I am struggling, because my anger and lashing out at him gave him the way into my emotions and mind to fracture me further apart.

An important thing happened the other day, though. He brought up an old complaint to me and told me I destroyed our relationship in a discussion we had almost FOUR YEARS AGO on msn instant messenger. He claimed I had raged at him for days and he decided he was pretty much done with me. Well... .  as it turned out, I still have that old computer and the msn logs are on there. So I got them and gave them to him.

What was on the logs? Me bringing a concern to him, gently, with love, polite and careful of his feelings. I was supportive and reassuring, asked his thoughts, suggested a way of handling things that was kind to us both. His reaction? Rude, attacking, threatening to leave me, sarcasm, bullying, drama.

And he saw that in fact, this false scenario that he had built up in his head of me as this monster was the exact opposite, he had built this up ... .  his own upset feelings at the time into this terrible event he blamed on me and has been building on as a "reason" for essentially brutalizing my life and me while I have been mostly sitting here afraid, confused, not understanding WHY he wasn't understanding and working with me.

This whole story I just told you has a point. Your BPD, my BPD, has a core of shame inside of themselves that when triggered makes them feel so unlovable, so humiliated and flawed, that it becomes their reality emotionally. IT WAS NOT ANYTHING YOU REALLY DID. It is their EMOTIONAL RESPONSE. But, they are associating that emotional response with US, so they rewrite facts to support their feelings, then they REACT to the false reality.

If I had known this, I wouldn't have become so frustrated and enraged and lashed out. I didn't understand. So now I won't.

Right now I am handling his silence with my own silence. He did apologize to me after he saw and was reminded what really happened. I said, I accept this. And I have not said a word since.

I don't know how to help you with getting your BPD back. I don't know how to get mine to talk to me without giving away my dignity and power right now. It's important for me to be right with myself, to heal, to recover my life, because this relationship has been horribly destructive to me and him. He can take care of himself, I am more worried about me.

I am encouraging you to stay silent for now with your BPD. Focus on your own self.  Put this guy on the back burner because he is not worrying really that YOU are ok. He is worrying that HE is ok.

It's your life. Take care of you first.

[lipstick]

Hi Daybreak - thank you for your input on this. Yes, after thinking back on our relationship in HS, it's clear he was BPD even then. Leaving, coming back, leaving, coming back. He even did it when he went away to college, but I blew him off.    Should have left it there ! LOL !

I'm doing MUCH better than I was in October. I moved two hours away from him - back to our hometown - in the hopes that putting some distance between us would halt any "recycle" attempts. Plus, my family is here. So it was the best decision for me at the time. Yes, this forum is a blessing! It's helped keep me calm and somewhat sane in my weak moments (wanting to initiate contact).

My ex-husband and I are working diligently on our issues so I'm hoping for the best where that RS is concerned. He is a good man and I have my work cut out for me to regain his trust.

Thx again for your insight.

[lipstick]

Hi Elemental - wow!  Your story is really incredible. You must be a very strong person to be able to process all of it the way that you have. Kudos to you!

I don't think I'll ever see or speak with my BPDex again. He's two hours away from our hometown and I doubt if he would go out of his way to try and seek me out. Like you stated - shame is at the core of this. I'm trying to stop thinking about the "whys" of all of it. He doesn't seem to want to let me go - but I understand that I need to let HIM go for my own well-being. I really don't want him continuing to pay for anything of mine - but I also don't want to initiate contact to ask him to stop. Know what I mean? So I guess I'll let him keep paying for my subscription.

I understand that it's all about HIS feelings. He has never once contacted me to check on how I'm doing. Mind you - he left me with no job, no money, no friends - nothing - when he dumped me. Just me and my four cats. Sent me a msg. once in the first two weeks after leaving - offering to meet me for lunch because he had a "lot of explaining to do".  Never heard from him again. Lunch date never happened. So as for putting him on the "back burner" - I'm pretty sure he's done with me. Too much of a coward to face me and explain himself, I suppose.

Thx again for sharing your story. What an ordeal. I'm sorry you went thru all of that.  :'(