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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: bf/gf versus wife  (Read 1596 times)
spaceace
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« on: January 09, 2013, 09:14:58 AM »

I have thought about all this nonsense of going NC (No Contact). If I had a girlfriend, and she went NC on me, I am pretty sure, I would not hesitate to hit the bricks and be thankful I was not trapped in the relationship. Going NC is unbelievably abusive to do to a partner. Many here have experienced it with little understanding or knowledge why.

But my questions is, how many people on this board have a bf/gf and they are stuck with NC, and how many are married and being tortured by NC?

I am stuck with being in the NC craziness, and I still feel a sense of, she's my wife, I should not give up on her, on our relationship. We are married, that means something. But does it? It certainly doesn't feel like it matters to her in any way? So why should I care? What is it about me fundamentally that keeps me hooked into her? Is it because of the marriage? Or is it, I really am broken emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and I cannot accept it? So, if I can just convince her to get back with me, all will be okay? I will no longer feel broken?

What a BPD spouse is capable of doing to us non's in unbelievable. I want to wake up just one day, any day now, and not feel dread about my life. I want to not have her face in my mind. I want the memories to fade. What about these people make this so hard to accomplish?

Logically thinking, I cannot imagine ever giving up my current life to be with her again. Yet, that is ALL I can think about. Getting back with my wife without a serious commitment to DBT and getting a therapist who deals with childhood trauma involved on a very consistent basis, going back to her would only be another recycle that would end with my heart being crushed again. I am certain.

I would love to hear, how many folks are married and experiencing NC. And how many folks are with a bf/gf and are experiencing this?

I don't think one is worse or better than the other, I just wonder if being married and breaking away is harder? Or if being with a SO without marriage is any different? And if so, was it or is it easier to walk away from this craziness?

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hithere
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 09:31:45 AM »

Are you in therapy?  Figuring out why you would likely put yourself back in a miserable situation again and likely have a similar outcome is something you need to deal with internally.

I know for me, even after I moved out (we lived together for 3.5 years) I still was dating her because I had trouble sticking to NC but I knew we could never be together again.  It is like an addiction.

Excerpt
folks are married and experiencing NC. And how many folks are with a bf/gf and are experiencing this?

But when a married couple go NC it would be considered a separation and when bf/gf go no contact it would be considered breaking up.

Excerpt
What about these people make this so hard to accomplish?

Likely it is you remembering the idealization phase, no will even treat you that way again because it is not normal and it was not real, that is what you have to convince yourself of.
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Rose Tiger
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 09:51:13 AM »

Grieving takes some time to work through, here are the basics of grieving a deep loss... .  

How grief passes through us: The Five Stages of Grieving

Denial- This is when we and our partner are on different page about our commitments to the relationship. This stage is filled with disbelief and denial.  Often in this stage we are engaged in relationship struggles and are expecting our partner to respond in the way that someone in a relationship would respond. However, they are in a very different, less caring place.  We are confused, hurt, put off by their behavior.

Anger- Anger often the reaction to being hurt and/or fearful, and helpless to do anything about it. The greater the loss, the greater the reaction. Anger is a very complex part of grieving - many of us stumble in this stage with either unhealthy anger (misdirected, trapping) or no anger (no release).  We need to determine why we're angry and focus our feeling on the true issues - if not, anger can imprison us.

Bargaining- Bargaining is that stage of the break-up when you’re trying to make deals and compromises. It’s when you start talking about how an open relationship might be a possibility or a long-distance thing could work. It’s when you say to your partner, “if you just did this then I could do that and it would work”. It’s when you say to yourself that you’ll do x, y, z to be a better spouse so that the relationship doesn’t have to end.

Depression- After all of the denial and the anger and the bargaining have been done and we realize that things really are starting to end and we become depressed. We fell helpless and powerless and overwhelmed with sadness about the loss that we are experiencing.  This acknowledgment often starts the serious process of us trying to understand what happened.

Acceptance- Acceptance is a final stage when we have finally sorting out what happened, accepted it and are more interested in moving forward than looking back. Acceptance can take a lot of time and a lot of processing. It involves understanding the situation, understand our role / understand their role, understanding what can be learned, and letting go / moving forward. 

Note: Each person mourns a loss differently.  You may not experience these stages in one fluid order. You may go through some of the stages more than once. Sometimes during the bargaining stages we recycle the relationship. Or an event will trigger us to experience one of these stages again - like hearing your ex-partner is to remarry.

A part of me would still like to work things out.    Working towards acceptance.
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spaceace
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 09:55:15 AM »

I have been in therapy, and the last time I went was just before the holidays. I have not gone back. I do not know what I would offer or ask of my therapist at this point. She is very aware of my situation and frankly, there is nothing new to discuss. So I have not been back.

So my question to you hithere, am I supposed to get my head around, my wife going NC at me 2 months ago is just a separation? That I treat it as just a time out and wait? Wait for her to come around?

There was one communication 2 months ago where she said the marriage was over, she no longer loved me, she hated me and she was going to NOT divorce me because I owe her, and she will challenge a divorce because she needs me to cover her bills, ie: car insurance, life insurance, health and dental insurance, mental health insurance and her and her son's cell phone, until she is back on her feet. Does that sound like it's just a time out? A separation?

Does being told, I was being defensive and I tried to steal her light (what?) and she would never again give her light away to another man, ever again, sound like a time out? A separation? Because that was what the whole of it was when she told me she no longer wanted this marriage with me. And then no contact since to discuss anything other than signing some paperwork for her, and her asking for money.

To me, this sounds like a pretty definitive break with little understanding as to why? It's all flaky and the NC is abusive. That is my take on it. I don't even know what it means to take her 'light'? What is that?
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Rose Tiger
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 10:06:09 AM »

She doesn't get to call all the shots, you have choices, too.  What is stopping you from filing?
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spaceace
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 10:33:09 AM »

The law in my state requires a year separation before filing divorce. Stupid law. Very frustrating to have to wait like this.

May 8th will be a year we have not lived together. Although, she has stated she will contest that date. I do not know why or how she will drag it our further, but who knows with the courts in my state. We have not cohabitated since May 8th, 2012.

She initially initiated a separation on that date. And we have been together 'working' or actually I should say, 'sharing time' together from June to November. And it all came to a resounding end on November 10th 2012 when she took a walk with our dog and accused me of NOT doing the work. By her insistence, I was going to a DBT class 1 day a week, I was going to therapy 1-2 days a week, and I was involved in Al-Anon because she was, and she demanded I go otherwise she would leave the marriage. So, in our conversation, actually her yelling at me, she says doing 3 days a week was not enough. If that is all I was going to do, I should get out.

I did all these things because they were her demands when she separated from me in May. I told her I was finding a balance, and this was what was working for me.

That was the end. That was it for her. As she yelled at me on the street about this, I knew I had nothing more internally I was willing to give as far as going to therapy, DBT and Al-Anon, so I didn't argue with her. When she screamed at me to get out, I left. What more could I do?

2 days later, I get a phone call where she is screaming at me and cursing at me on the phone about how she should not have to live this way, she is not going to give away her light, she wants me to pay for all her stuff, and the marriage is over, and she cannot imagine getting back with me...

2 days before she yelled at me while on the walk with the dog, we had filled out all the paperwork to buy a house and we were waiting on the terms to be figured out.

To say all this has been a shock to my system and I am floundering is a bit of an understatement.
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 10:34:36 AM »

Excerpt
So my question to you hithere, am I supposed to get my head around, my wife going NC at me 2 months ago is just a separation? That I treat it as just a time out and wait? Wait for her to come around?

In Canada (where I am from) you have a one year legal separation before you can officially file for divorce, that is what I meant, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Does your wife work?  :)id you contact a lawyer to find out if she can stop a divorce? Do you have children with her?

The NC is only abusive because you are letting it be.  She said it is over and she wants to remain married so you can take care of her financially.  Is she seeing other men?  

I don't know your story but if you are sure she has BPD then you are lucky to have gotten out, divorce her and move on with your life.

And judging by how confused you sound I don't think seeing your therapist would be a waste of time, most (if not all) people have an infinite amount of things to discuss in therapy.

Just read the update, you were in dbt therapy?  Why? Are you the one with BPD? Or both of you have it?
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Rose Tiger
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 10:41:36 AM »

I will tell you that I tried to make a go of it knowing he had BPD.  I validated, I supported him, I stayed emotionally grounded for him.  He did nothing of the sort in return.  I created a life apart from him to get support, to get a shoulder to lean on and more and more I felt why am I doing this.  I wasn't happy or fulfilled with him, we couldn't discuss anything of substance.  Only things like the weather.  It was so superficial and shallow.  I gave him lots of time and chances to work on his stuff.  It was like being with a roommate as aquaintances.  This is the best it gets.

It is much better to be a lonely single than a lonely married.  At least singles get to do something about it.
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spaceace
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 10:46:27 AM »

My wife works, yes. We do not have kids together. I do not know if she has seen a lawyer. I cannot imagine she would spend money for that right now. But I could be wrong. I do not know if she is seeing someone else. She doesn't or didn't strike me as the kind of person who would do that. She had a huge aversion to cheating because her ex husband cheated on her and fundamentally, she is not that kind of person. I don't think?

She's just a mommy who loves her kids and wants little out of life, other than to take care of her kids. That has been her mantra for the whole time I've known her.

She has 3 kids and they are a hand full. Believe me when I tell you. And unless she is a sex addict, which I cannot see, not too many men will get involved with a woman who has three kids like this. One has turrets, the other 2 are wild kids she can hardly control. They are young. And that is another part that kills me. I really connected with her kids and I miss them. I have custody of my 3 kids, but they are older. Only my daughter is under 18 now.

So many unanswered questions. That's why this whole NC she has initiated against me is baffling and confusing and hurtful. She has broken the lease on the house we were renting and is moving out February 28. I know this as a fact because I had to sign the break lease agreement.

We had a beautiful farm with chickens, a garden, bee's and she is moving into an apartment? Why do this? And, she is pulling her kids out of the private school they go to because she will no longer be able to afford paying the tuition.

None of this needs to happen. That is why I get afraid for her kids and for her. What is driving her to do this? Why make all these profound changes? What exactly was happening so horrible in our marriage that it all comes down to this?

And no answers. Just silence.
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Rose Tiger
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 11:03:56 AM »

The disorder causes them to devalue those closest to them.  Their own self loathing gets rejected and projected onto us.  It is building up the entire relationship.  The resentment.  It is a serious disorder.  The book title I Hate You/Don't Leave Me sums it up.  It's an attachment disorder, a very serious mental illness.  This is why they tend to be terrified to see us after the break, we are scary to them.  They built us up as monsters.  It's killer hard, to be emotionally abused and then be accused of being the abuser.  :'(
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spaceace
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 11:13:23 AM »

I understand that... .  I actually do very much so. So, the questions is, is this a time out? Do I accept the whole NC thing and just wait? Do nothing? Maybe she will come back? IS this a separation and we just need time apart? I mean, none of those things were ever discussed. So, I believe it's very real when she says it is over.

Is there nothing I can do to create a sense of safety for her so she can turn back towards me before she goes down these roads and turns her and her kids life upside down?

Or is it really just best, let it go, don't wait and move on with healing myself?

That is where I am torn.

I have sent emails and texts, very light in nature, just asking to talk or to go out for a bite to eat. Never a response.

So, are you of the mindset, just stop? That's the best and only thing I should do?
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 11:22:32 AM »

Whether we are left or we do the leaving - the emotions involved are very difficult.

No Contact is a tool used for detaching - it is not a tool used to control or hurt.  It is not "done" do the other person, rather it is self preservation.

If I am reading this correctly, it seems you may be struggling with accepting she really is done with this marriage.  For me, I had a really hard time letting go of my marriage vows and I didn't quite understand how my exw could move on so quickly and without seemingly any accountability.  I honestly just didn't understand.

What helped me was in understanding the actions of my ex were not really about me as a person, but me as a perception.  Unknowingly, I was the source of her bad feelings and shame... .  it is part of the disorder.  I was persecutor number 1 now - so in her mind LOGICALLY, you get rid of the persecutor, right?

Your wife likely sees you as her persecutor now and is avoiding you - is it fair? No

Does it hurt immensely?  yes

Regarding divorce, make sure you have your ducks in a row - don't be lulled into thinking no drama this last year will mean no drama for a divorce.  BPD is rooted in abandonment, even when they cause the divorce - the perception is still us abandoning them.

Spaceace - these emotions we carry around this are complex, keep posting here, but I suggest you keep seeing your T.  We process by working deeper into what we think might be the same story over and over.  My process went from "I don't understand" (logic to avoid pain) to "It's not about me" (denial) to extreme hurt  - not linear, but as Rose Tiger suggests - the grief process is a process we must go through.

Take good care,

SB
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 11:24:08 AM »

If she considers herself separated it would not be considered cheating if she was with someone else.  My gut tells me what if she is BPD and stopped all contact with you it is likely that she has someone else lined up.

I think you should see a lawyer and find out what your responsibilities to her will be.  :)oes she get support for the other kids from the father?
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 11:25:47 AM »

I suggest LC, light contact.  No pressure, nothing emotional.  Like her request for money, pretend you are talking to your sister.  Answer with, sorry, I was just about to ask you the same thing!  That sort of response, light hearted and no pressure.  You might want to check out the lessons on the Staying board about improving communications while protecting your self esteem.  Boundaries.  :)o not expect her to show any concern for you.  She can't.  She can't empathize with you or her kids.  It's just not in her.

As best you can, start rebuilding a life for you.  Take care of you.  Eat well, get enough rest, exercise as much as you can motivate yourself to do.  Walking is good.  Start thinking about what you enjoyed as a kid.  See if any of those things interest you.  Re-read old books that you love.  Reconnect with friends, find activities around town to make new ones.  Make plans and goals that only concern you.  Even if you and your wife reconcile, you will need a separate life apart from her to stay mentally healthy.  Might as well start now.  
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spaceace
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 11:36:50 AM »

Yes, I am struggling with the fact, this marriage may very well be over.

With no logical reasons, with no conversation, with no understanding why we are here, yes, I am struggling.

This is the 3rd time she has initiated NC in our marriage and kicked me out. Each time, she has gone NC, then turned back towards me. I can't even recall why or how the first 2 times. I don't know what I did to create a place for her to do this? Or if she just came back without anything I offered. But, we have never stayed apart this long. At most, we stayed apart 2-3 weeks.

This is a solid 2 months of nothing. So, it feels much different, and I keep holding onto something... .  I wish I knew what? But I am holding on nonetheless.

There are good days where I am really grounded and I think, why in the world would I EVER dream about getting into a mess with her again. She will only crush my heart and soul.

Then there are days like today, where I am all over the place and I cannot think straight, I get this gut feeling I should do something, not sure what, and I feel sick and emotionally wracked.

That in itself should be a red flag to just shut er down, emotionally, and run like the wind. Protect my heart and just cry it out and be done with it.

But, what if that isn't what I am supposed to do?

We went to a Shaman two times, (this was a pretty serious stretch for me) and the shaman said we have been connected throughout the ages. That our finding each other was inevitable and our marriage is a progression of our journey together. WHAT crap I thought. A shaman? Come on really? But I have thought about that so many times, is it true? We had talked extensively about how it was so natural for us when we met and fell in love. (The valuation stage?) and how we were meant to be together.

Now, I think about that, and man, it feels like I was being totally brain washed to believe in her needs and to take care of this woman. I feel foolish I ever agreed to see a shaman, no less actually buying into this crap for as long as I did!
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Rose Tiger
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 11:48:10 AM »

This is in the lessons to the right... .  

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf

Read it over and over.  I think I've read it 500 times.  It helps. 
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 11:49:44 AM »

Then there are days like today, where I am all over the place and I cannot think straight, I get this gut feeling I should do something, not sure what, and I feel sick and emotionally wracked.

That in itself should be a red flag to just shut er down, emotionally, and run like the wind. Protect my heart and just cry it out and be done with it.

Crying when hurt and emotionally wrecked is exactly what you are supposed to do - let the tears flow.  It hurts, it sucks, this is not what you want or signed up for - but it is what you have right now.  The only way to the other side is to let go.  I am so sorry you have to go through this.  I know how hard it is to let go of a marriage.

But, what if that isn't what I am supposed to do?

We went to a Shaman two times, (this was a pretty serious stretch for me) and the shaman said we have been connected throughout the ages. That our finding each other was inevitable and our marriage is a progression of our journey together. WHAT crap I thought. A shaman? Come on really? But I have thought about that so many times, is it true? We had talked extensively about how it was so natural for us when we met and fell in love. (The valuation stage?) and how we were meant to be together.

Now, I think about that, and man, it feels like I was being totally brain washed to believe in her needs and to take care of this woman. I feel foolish I ever agreed to see a shaman, no less actually buying into this crap for as long as I did!

Well, there is no doubt this woman is significant to your life - so the shaman was right about that at least.

For me, I really focused on the 10 False Beliefs when letting go - depending on the day... .  a different one would be more relevent.  https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

No matter what you do or don't do -you will be ok.  Keep posting and let yourself cry it out.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2013, 11:50:13 AM »

This is in the lessons to the right... .  

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf

Read it over and over.  I think I've read it 500 times.  It helps. 

posted before seeing this  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 11:53:48 AM »

hithere,

I cannot fathom she would have someone lined up. She is very protective of her kids and would not bring someone into their lives while we are still married. Regardless of being separated. She not cut from that cloth, so to speak. It took us 3 months before our kids were introduced to each other. And her one son lives at home full time and if she had another person in her life, hiding it from him would be really hard. He's really not old enough to be left alone.

If she has someone else, in every respect, that would kill it quickly for me. I do not believe in that at all. Regardless if we are separated. I would let her go immediately. She knows that, and if she really wants me go, all she would have to do is tell me that and I would be done. And, she has little incentive to not tell me. Legally, what can I do? I cannot retaliate? So, I think your gut feeling is wrong. My gut tells me it's not the case. But I can find out, it wouldn't be too hard.
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 12:13:34 PM »

hithere,

Just an update, I pay for our cell phones, and I just looked at her calls and texts. Nothing to anyone I do not know. There is zero to indicate she is involved with someone else.


You got me all keyed up by writing that... .  and curiosity got the best of me... I feel kind of yucky that I even did that... .  but at least I know...
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 12:37:45 PM »

hithere,

Just an update, I pay for our cell phones, and I just looked at her calls and texts. Nothing to anyone I do not know. There is zero to indicate she is involved with someone else.


You got me all keyed up by writing that... .  and curiosity got the best of me... I feel kind of yucky that I even did that... .  but at least I know...

Try not to ruminate on this - just let it go. 

It is not a criteria that your ex have someone lined up - so really try to focus on your feelings, not random things you cannot control anyways.

I understand that yucky feeling... .  I did this too and it only fueled unnecessary shame. 

Focus on your feelings and taking care of you.

Peace,

SB
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 01:26:57 PM »

Hi spaceace, a moderator pointed out to me that I was probably not helping by introducing the idea that your wife might have someone else on the side and I am sorry if this upset you.

Really, I would not have mentioned it if this was the staying board or maybe even the undecided board.  It just seems to be the case so often when BPD's disappear for no reason.  And since this is posted on the leaving board I figured it might help you detach.

I am not sure about the person mentioning you should go LC (low contact), right now you have NC by her choice so I don't know if LC is even an option.

Whatever happens I wish you luck!
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2013, 01:36:57 PM »

hithere,

Thank you for the follow up. Yes, honestly, what you wrote totally threw me. I don't want to believe this about my wife especially since we both came from marriages where our spouses cheated on us. It would be the ultimate betrayal and kiss of death emotionally. We spoke at length about this and although what my wife is doing by going NC is brutal, I do believe there is a human in there somewhere  that would never do that to me.

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond again.
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2013, 01:40:57 PM »

I don't want to believe this about my wife especially since we both came from marriages where our spouses cheated on us.

Again - I really want to stress to everyone reading - cheating is not in the criteria of BPD... .  it has been a maladaptive coping mechanism, but it is not any more common than any other maladaptive coping mechanism - it just FEELS that way to those of us who may have been cheated on.

Sorry, don't want to hijack your thread - a really good self examining thread - I did want to clear up any misinformation on cheating and BPD.
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 02:46:04 PM »

I just had an aHa moment. Don't know why, but things just became incredibly clear for me. I think reading these boards today and writing has helped tremendously.

My wife separated in May by texting me while I was at an Al-anon meeting. I go because she demanded that. I was in week 3 of 30 in 30 if anyone is familiar with this concept...

She went NC and would not talk for 2-3 weeks with me. Then we started to see each other slowly in June.

I was so happy that she allowed me to come back in her life, I did nothing to question why we were separated in the first place. Her reasoning why she was separating was I was not "doing the work'. I was doing the work she demanded because I wanted peace and harmony in our home, and I was genuinely learning a LOT from going to a DBT class, Al-Anon and therapy. I was learning skills from DBT to self sooth. And all the tools that are taught in DBT that I believe my wife should have been getting. But that's not the point.

If my wife is indeed a person with traits of a PD and is an udBPD person, I did NOTHING to address our marriage. I was happy to be along for the ride never questioning a thing.

I was too afraid to lose her that I allowed her to drive this marriage any way she saw fit.

I never questioned, or suggested we do any REAL therapy together. I never pushed any issue to gain an understanding of her and her emotional state. I was too afraid to of her leaving me if I did that.

Then November comes around, and who knows why, but with little to no REAL work, other than showing up at 2 of her sessions with her therapist, who I did not like, nor felt comfortable with, she ends the marriage.

And this is a surprise to me now? It shouldn't be. If I look at myself and see the role I played over this time frame, I have contributed little other than to show up each day, pay bills, help out with the kids, buy fancy gifts and I expected her to change and there be some form of intimacy without contributing myself and taking a chance of speaking up when things needed to be said? I really only have myself to blame?

I had my head buried in the sand and I was happy with it, as long as I got a gaze from my wife every so often. What is there to complain about.

What I have lost and forgotten is, I know my wife is a highly sensitive person. That there are BP traits. That she has been diagnosed as having ADHD and takes meds for it. I know she has been diagnosed as OCD. I know SHE believes she has PTSD from her childhood experience. And I left all these relational issues to chance and allowed her to drive the relationship? Who really is to blame?

I had to look at the title of this board again. It is about detaching. That is why I initially started to write on this board.

That is why I am here. That is what my focus should be. Detaching. And I am doing this for me, so I can be healthy and go on with my life.

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spaceace
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 03:14:39 PM »

I am just writing to write, I need to process, and here is where I am doing it and I hope no one is offended by what I am writing.

I have to say this. Life is short. It DOES NOT need to be this hard. All these relational problems that I experienced with my wife where issues SHE always had with one thing or another that I did. If it wasn't about me there was always a falling out at work with her, or at her kids school, or a driver on the road she was raging at while on the phone with me, then getting upset with how I drove like a grandpa when she was with me. Then there was the never ending, I must go to Al-Anon, I must have a sponsor and call him daily (even though I had a sponsor who knew my wife and said, dude, you don't need to call me daily). All the fights about self help and therapy she FELT I needed to do and it was never enough.

Really, all I want, all I wanted with her was, go to work, come home, feed the kids, watch a movie now and then, go on a bike ride with the kids, pay the bills, walk the dog, attend to our chickens. You know, the daily grind. It was never what she was comfortable with.

There was always another self help book she was buying and another person she knew she was diagnosing as having a mental health issue. If we didn't spend time reading self help books, there was an issue. There were always issues!

But I am not talking about your garden variety issues. You know, I can't pay the bills because we are short. Or we can't go out because we don't have money. Or, the toothpaste cap was left off the toothpaste today. Or fighting about physical attention which seriously dwindled and I accepted. Nope, no issues like that.

It was always about something I WAS NOT DOING RIGHT?

Oh my goodness, really? Why was I there? Why did I accept that I was ALWAYS the problem and begged and pleaded, please give me a chance, I will do more, I will give more. Whatever you need, I will do.

This is not a way for anyone to live. One person does NOT take on the whole responsibility for the family issues and continually, like I did, try to find ways to make it better just to keep harmony and peace in the house.

No matter how much I convinced myself of my needs never getting met, I kept pushing on hoping tomorrow would be better. It had to be? I am doing everything this woman is asking of me. How can it not be better.

Well buddy, it never got better. You stopped asking for ANY needs to be met for fear she would leave you. You made her life good. You gave to her and her kids unconditionally, sometimes to the detriment of your own kids. That should have never been the case.
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Rose Tiger
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2013, 07:42:33 PM »

 Smiling (click to insert in post)  It's sort of like in the Wizard of Oz when Toto pulls back the curtain and Dorothy sees an average person running the controls.  The great and powerful, all a farce!

I do suggest getting with a lawyer and starting a separation agreement, if for no other purpose than to establish a date of separation to start the clock.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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