Do they really want us to know?

[losinghope97]

I will start with my question, before a brief background.

Is the rage and the dysregulation (sometimes) driven by anger and insecurity BP suffers have about their own past actions that are in the closet?

I come to this question after years of being lost and not being able to step out of situations and be an observer.  The more stable and less reactive I become (partly through minimizing the effect of triggers and using boundaries), and the more I think about past rages/conversations and the almost ‘childlike’ dropped hints at past indiscretion/s, the more I begin to wonder if what I have been experiencing is the projected emotion from her own failings. 

The endless and unbreakable belief that I have been unfaithful, the countless accusations, psychic calls and tortured demands to just admit to it, could they be a projection of herself on me, bringing with it the fear of abandonment and painful devaluation of her sense of self?

Am I way out in left field here, perhaps reaching in vain for understanding or have other come to know this as a dynamic also?

Final questions, if my thoughts are accurate, and there is a past I don’t know about, do I press the issue to release a valve so to speak?  Is there such a thing as a pwBP who can find peace out of exposing their secrets or is that just a non thing?

Thanks for any insights . 

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[Chosen]

I'm not a professional or anything... .  but, I think what you said have some truth.  I've read that much BPD behaviours are learnt ways to cope with some events that have happened in childhood that they never got proper closure, or never really dealt with.

Problem is, though, many times I think pwBPD are so deep in their constructed reality (and they have high abiliy of rewriting the past, I think they completely believe what they say), that even if that "thing" is in the open, they will not believe it.  I guess if a pwBPD is going through therapy, like DBT, and they are really ready to face their past, exposing it would help.  Otherwise, they will keep on projecting, rewriting and constructing their own past to cope.

[waverider]

The projections are not always about their past actions, but more a mirroring of how they would behave in your situation.

eg they think they are a failure, if they where you they would not put up with them. Hence they believe you wont either, and will suspect your reasons

Not only do they often not have a lot of empathy, but they have no real knowledge of it either so cant truly accept it from others as it is an alien concept.

[losinghope97]

Thank you both.  Your words make a lot of sense. 

As a non who is in the early stages of coming out of the FOG, I am becoming more concious of the battle to keep my own head straight, and trying to not get caught up in the BP mindset.  My wife is so suspicious, not just of me, but everyone, always looking for alterior motives and never trusting that people can be good, even for no reason.  It feels like she is willing me to live in her world of insecurity and mistrust so that she isn't alone.  In reflection on my original question, I was allowing myself to walk into that space, again.

It is hard for me to stay constantly present and mindful in my interactions with her, trying to constantly reflect on my own thoughts and motives.  Are they my own or orginating out of this other place?

Does this ever get easier?

[waverider]

Imagine a number of angry little goblins standing around you, each has a rope tied to your head and they all want you to look their way. They are randomly tugging and pulling to get your attention, these are her thought processes, self centered and often opposing.

Your head is yanked all over wondering which one to look at. The answer is to stop looking at any and concentrate on strengthening your own neck muscles so you wont be yanked around as much. Otherwise you will end up with a huge headache and dizzy

[123Phoebe]

Imagine a number of angry little goblins standing around you, each has a rope tied to your head and they all want you to look their way. They are randomly tugging and pulling to get your attention, these are her thought processes, self centered and often opposing.

Your head is yanked all over wondering which one to look at. The answer is to stop looking at any and concentrate on strengthening your own neck muscles so you wont be yanked around as much. Otherwise you will end up with a huge headache and dizzy

Hilarious and oh so true   Makes perfect sense and love the visual.

Thanks Waverider for the good laugh

Losinghope97, keep your wits about you and yes it does get easier.  There are no easy fixes, it's a process we must all go through at our own speed, but with the help found here it'll make the process a lot less grueling... .    And you might even have a few good laughs!

[AJMahari]

I will start with my question, before a brief background.

Is the rage and the dysregulation (sometimes) driven by anger and insecurity BP suffers have about their own past actions that are in the closet?

The rage and the dysregulation are always driven by anger that is used as a defense against emotional pain not dealt/coped with and in the here-and-now it's not from past actions in "the closet" so to speak, but past experience, that people with BPD are triggered back to in a dissociative way. So when you get what is too intense a reaction in the here-and-now from your perspective, your pwBPD is re-experiencing old (usually emotionally very young) emotions that she does not know how to cope with and might not even have that much awareness about or insight into.

I come to this question after years of being lost and not being able to step out of situations and be an observer.  The more stable and less reactive I become (partly through minimizing the effect of triggers and using boundaries), and the more I think about past rages/conversations and the almost ‘childlike’ dropped hints at past indiscretion/s, the more I begin to wonder if what I have been experiencing is the projected emotion from her own failings.

Absolutely. This is very important insight on your part. When a person with BPD is triggered to rage/dysregulated emotion they are actually projecting them onto you in a way that they feel/believe that you are actually causing them to feel the way they feel. If one is not stepping back to observe and one reacts it can very quickly become even more confusing. It might be something to do with her own failings but is also likely a lot to do with times in her young life she may have felt failed, needs might now have been met when she was young, or not met to the threshold of her needs. She may have this abandonment perception whether this is from an actual experience or a perceived one.

The endless and unbreakable belief that I have been unfaithful, the countless accusations, psychic calls and tortured demands to just admit to it, could they be a projection of herself on me, bringing with it the fear of abandonment and painful devaluation of her sense of self?

She lacks a stable sense of self. She is not sure who she is. She does not understand where she ends and you begin. She is, in effect, trying to live through you. This is why when she is triggered to raging/emotional dysregulation you likely have felt not only confused but like your may be invisible. In those moments pwBPD can in fact be relating from a lost self (themselves) to a self they need (you as a container for the self that she lacks). What you are describing in her unbreakable belief that is not tied to reality, her accusations etc., is her abandonment fear in action. It is not a devaluation of her sense of self. It is a self-destructive (largely subconscious) re-playing out of her own core wound of abandonment wherein (when she is triggered) you become the representative parent that she felt/feels abandoned by - Object Other. (Object Relations Theory)

Am I way out in left field here, perhaps reaching in vain for understanding or have other come to know this as a dynamic also?

No, you are not way out in left field at all. Not reaching in vain at all. You are understanding a key central part of the dynamic of those with BPD.

Final questions, if my thoughts are accurate, and there is a past I don’t know about, do I press the issue to release a valve so to speak?  Is there such a thing as a pwBP who can find peace out of exposing their secrets or is that just a non thing?

There may be things in her past that you don't know about and even some that she is not clear about or has pushed out of her conscious awareness to protect herself from the emotional pain she does not know how to cope with. I would not recommend you "press the issue to release the valve" Do not be the messenger, so to speak. This type of confrontation backfires and ends up in high conflict. It will trigger her to rage.

As someone who recovered from BPD in 1995, there is an intensive process to recovery. The pwBPD has to undertake that process in therapy to uncover, in a safe, supportive, process, any secrets or defended against abandonment trauma from her past. She will need to be in treatment and gain more self-awareness which is a painful process in order to hopefully one day find peace. BPD is the antithesis (sadly) of emotional peace. She will also have to find her authentic self to find that emotional peace as well.

[losinghope97]

AJ,

Thank you for such a well explained response.  I had to take some time to think through and really take in the thoughts.

So when you get what is too intense a reaction in the here-and-now from your perspective, your pwBPD is re-experiencing old (usually emotionally very young) emotions that she does not know how to cope with and might not even have that much awareness about or insight into.

It seems this is my life now.  While I struggle through every moment of the hate that is directed at me, your words bring me such sadness for my beautiful wife, who I can only imagine is suffering more than me, as she can't escape the emotion that I am learning to detach from.

It is a self-destructive (largely subconscious) re-playing out of her own core wound of abandonment wherein (when she is triggered) you become the representative parent that she felt/feels abandoned by - Object Other.

She was abandoned by her parents at a very young age, never to see her father again and only to come back to a mother 4 years later who had moved on to a new marriage with a functioning alcoholic.  With the destruction it has caused in our relationship and the damage it has caused our family, I am crushed to think of the pain that she must have taken on at such a young age.

If I may I have one other question related to your post,

When a person with BPD is triggered to rage/dysregulated emotion they are actually projecting them onto you in a way that they feel/believe that you are actually causing them to feel the way they feel.

Does she 'in her conscious mind' truly believe that I am the cause of the pain she feels?  And if so is my only option to radically accept her as she is and detach with love?

[waverider]

You may be the trigger, or at least available when a current event triggers her. But once triggered by a current event all the past hurt comes out of her memories to add to the snow balling anger, which goes way past the current issue. But as she needs someone to project this on to you are it, unfortunately.

At that stage past and present are all one and same, what was, now is, and always will be. Separation of feelings past, present and the future along with causes becomes difficult

[LetItBe]

The rage and the dysregulation are always driven by anger that is used as a defense against emotional pain not dealt/coped with and in the here-and-now it's not from past actions in "the closet" so to speak, but past experience, that people with BPD are triggered back to in a dissociative way. So when you get what is too intense a reaction in the here-and-now from your perspective, your pwBPD is re-experiencing old (usually emotionally very young) emotions that she does not know how to cope with and might not even have that much awareness about or insight into.

Thanks for this insight, A.J.  This sounds spot on and explains a lot for me.  I asked my BPDex what went on for him after we'd get close, and he seemed very confused and was trying to put together a response.  He said something like he'd feel a lot of anger coming up, like the anger was asking, "Hey, what about me?"  And he couldn't put his finger on where it came from.  I used to take it personally when he'd get angry.  Now, I just feel compassion for him.  I know he doesn't want to suffer like that, and he's really trying diligently to free himself of BPD.