Setting a boundary.

[cartman1]

Hi All,

Defended my first boundary today. My wife planned something behind my back and I felt it wasn't okay to plan this behind my back so I thought I'd try and broach the subject so I went to speak to her and she asked me to leave her alone and said she would come downstairs to speak, when she came down she seemed dysregulated and ready for an argument so I took her away from the children and we spoke.

I told her I wasn't happy with her planning things behind my back and said we should discuss things before we just do them and she said I do it to her. I told her that its only fair if I'm more upfront then in future. Then she said "you love it don't you? You know how to press all my buttons to upset me." So I told her I wasn't trying to upset her I was just trying to discuss something. She said " yeah, was I in a good mood, is that it? Your an f'ing horrible so and so. You should leave." By this time she was getting angry with me, usually I leave it at this and the silent treatment begins. But I said "I understand you are upset, I would feel upset too if I thought you were trying to upset me but I just wanted to discuss this issue." I carried on about the issue but she had turned to victim mode. I decided instead of letting her blame me I just kept talking through the issue, I got a few things said to me which I'm guessing where projections but I did keep pointing out the fact that she was getting quite aggressive while I was I being calm and it seemed to work better than taking the blame. She also seemed to be considering her emotions more.

All in all I felt I made the point I wanted to make which was to defend my boundary. I pointed out her emotions where above what was needed in the discussion but I also validated that she did feel that way but I also avoided taking the blame.

After this I left her to take some time to herself and when I went back to see if she was okay she told me she had handled the situation better than she normally does and she said she is finding it easier to deal with stressful situations lately and she gave me a few examples. All of which are things that she has come to me and discussed and I've spent the time making sure I'm listening to her and validating her feelings and I'm wondering if she knows she can handle things better because she knows that I will validate her feelings. But I'm guessing this isn't on a conscious level but she does seem more confident and chirpier lately and she does keep saying we are getting close again.

What I am wondering is how far should I take validating? I really would like to get my point across when I need to and I want her to see that her anger and frustration is a little above and beyond what's required. She thinks this is a game I'm playing to make her look the bad guy. I don't want either of us to be the bad guy I want to meet in the middle. I don't mind telling her I understand she feeling like that but I would like her to see its not appropriate. Is it wise to point out that she is getting dysregulated?

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[CodependentHusband]

I'm not clear on what boundary you are protecting in this case, but I may be missing some back story. Since boundaries are for you and not her, I'm just a little confused. For example, if my wife started planning a party at our house and didn't involve me, I wouldn't say a word to her about it, even if I didn't approve. Now, if she starts asking me to pay for something, or run some errands, that would be where I would start telling her "no." she can plan a party, she can have people over to the house even, all without me. I was amazed at how she started to change after she realized that she actually does have the power and control to take actions without me. Ironically, she started changing to actually WANT my input on her own after she realized that it was of her own free will.

As for telling my dBPDw that she is dysregulated, I would recommend against this. Think about it... .  Her emotions are out of control, that in turn affects her cognitive abilities so she cannot think clearly. It's not going to make her "snap out of it." it's much more likely to be received as a criticism on her part.


Just my 2 cents, cartman. I think it's great that you are feeling more empowered. No doubt about that! I've just found that trying to force my wife to do things my way has caused more problems in the long run.

[LetItBe]

I was amazed at how she started to change after she realized that she actually does have the power and control to take actions without me. Ironically, she started changing to actually WANT my input on her own after she realized that it was of her own free will.

As for telling my dBPDw that she is dysregulated, I would recommend against this. Think about it... .  Her emotions are out of control, that in turn affects her cognitive abilities so she cannot think clearly. It's not going to make her "snap out of it." it's much more likely to be received as a criticism on her part.

That's great, CH!  I know my ex was VERY sensitive to any "authority figures," and if he was feeling controlled by me, it never went well at all.

I highly recommend NOT suggesting your partner is dysregulated.  That would likely feel like criticism as CH suggested.  I know I wouldn't want someone pointing that out to me in the heat of the moment, and I'm a non.  It could be more empowering for her to realize that for herself.

[cartman1]

Sorry, it was the fact that she had told my little girl she was taking her to get her ears pierced and I thought this was something we should discuss first. So I decided against ignoring it I should tell her I wanted to discuss it as equals as I feel that's a big thing, I would ask my wife for her opinion on something like that.

I do agree that it can be bad to show her how she is acting however I had the Karpman triangle in mind and J.A.D.E. and S.E.T. The one thing I noticed is my wife never goes into rescuer mode, it's always got to be my fault. I stayed in rescuer mode and kept J.A.D.E in mind, at one point I did start to argue and she started really getting aggressive to the point I thought she might lash out but I stopped myself and had a little time out and went back to her thinking logically but I was thinking this discussion was more of a discussion from me and an argument from her so I did tell her that I just wanted to talk and I said "If you think about it I have broached this subject as gently as I can and you have still go really aggressive. If I was so aggressive how would you come to me? Like I did?" Her reply was quite good " It doesn't matter how you come to me, when I feel like this I hate you and nothing you say will change that." I thought that was a fair point! Guess I'd been painted black but the thing I liked is that it didn't continue. If I'd have walked off I would have stayed black for at least a few hours.

I have stopped trying to get things my way as it only leaves you feeling like you have lost. I've got a new motto in our house "We are equals, our happiness is important to me." I use this a lot when the victim role is played.

I feel I wouldn't have had the courage to take this subject to her a couple of months ago and either we would of fallen out and ended up walking on eggshells round each other or we would have just gone into silent mode round each other for at least a few hours.

I get its probably better if she did see her dysregulation herself. She did say I was playing mind games annoying her while staying calm. I suppose it would wind me up too!

[LetItBe]

Cartman1, you sound like such a caring partner to take the time and consideration to learn how to better communicate with her.  I think keeping in mind your motto, "We are equals, our happiness is important to me," is a great way to stay grounded in the difficult times.  I have a friend who is a therapist and works only with those who are mentally ill and uses CBT and DBT in her practice.  She has mentioned teaching keeping an "end goal" in mind when considering how to behave.   It sounds like that's what you're doing here.

I'm watching how you and others here are using the lessons as tools.  Looks like I'm reuniting with my BPDexbf, and while I'm very encouraged so far by our interactions, I realize that there will be times we'll both benefit from what I'm learning here.  Thank you for sharing.

[cartman1]

Cartman1, you sound like such a caring partner to take the time and consideration to learn how to better communicate with her.  I think keeping in mind your motto, "We are equals, our happiness is important to me," is a great way to stay grounded in the difficult times.  I have a friend who is a therapist and works only with those who are mentally ill and uses CBT and DBT in her practice.  She has mentioned teaching keeping an "end goal" in mind when considering how to behave.   It sounds like that's what you're doing here.

I'm watching how you and others here are using the lessons as tools.  Looks like I'm reuniting with my BPDexbf, and while I'm very encouraged so far by our interactions, I realize that there will be times we'll both benefit from what I'm learning here.  Thank you for sharing.

That's a big one for me, keeping an end goal in mind. I'm currently in CBT at the moment and I keep getting really funny looks from my T when I tell him how I used this technique or that tool I learned. He asked where I got them from and I said 'a BPD forum for non's.' then he said my relationship was about to change dynamics. I didn't know he meant in a good way or not but it seems to be going well. While there's little affection or intimacy we are much closer. That's progress to me.

I couldn't stress how well everything here works and not just with BPD, the communications tools make you a better communicator with everyone. Good luck with your partner and I must admit I was really struggling a few months back but now we are a lot happier!

[LetItBe]

I meant to say, "... .  using the lessons and tools," in my above post.

I am so glad to hear things are improving for you and her, Cartman1!  I think the improvements you mentioned have to occur before the physical intimacy improves.  At least, that's the way I see it, as a female nonBPD.  Thank you for the well-wishes, too. 

I agree about the tools here helping with communication with everyone in my life, not just my pwBPD.  The lessons and tools here have definitely shown me areas where I can improve, and when I use them, it's making such a difference.  I am so grateful for this forum. 

[cartman1]

I meant to say, "... .  using the lessons and tools," in my above post.

I am so glad to hear things are improving for you and her, Cartman1!  I think the improvements you mentioned have to occur before the physical intimacy improves.  At least, that's the way I see it, as a female nonBPD.  Thank you for the well-wishes, too. 

I agree about the tools here helping with communication with everyone in my life, not just my pwBPD.  The lessons and tools here have definitely shown me areas where I can improve, and when I use them, it's making such a difference.  I am so grateful for this forum. 

Yeah, I accept that the ladies need to feel close to their partner to feel in the mood for love, BPD or not. I'm starting to look at it a little different now, I'm going to do things to make her happy. If I did things just to keep us happy then anything more is a bonus. I'm sure if she feels happier and closer then she will come to me when she is ready.

[tuum est61]

I'm not clear on what boundary you are protecting in this case, but I may be missing some back story. Since boundaries are for you and not her, I'm just a little confused. For example, if my wife started planning a party at our house and didn't involve me, I wouldn't say a word to her about it, even if I didn't approve. Now, if she starts asking me to pay for something, or run some errands, that would be where I would start telling her "no." she can plan a party, she can have people over to the house even, all without me. I was amazed at how she started to change after she realized that she actually does have the power and control to take actions without me. Ironically, she started changing to actually WANT my input on her own after she realized that it was of her own free will.

As for telling my dBPDw that she is dysregulated, I would recommend against this. Think about it... .  Her emotions are out of control, that in turn affects her cognitive abilities so she cannot think clearly. It's not going to make her "snap out of it." it's much more likely to be received as a criticism on her part.


Just my 2 cents, cartman. I think it's great that you are feeling more empowered. No doubt about that! I've just found that trying to force my wife to do things my way has caused more problems in the long run.

Cartman1,

I'm with CdH on his advice on what a boundary actually is. If you initate any discussion about her action on any particular matter, you aren't dealing with boundaries in the context of "nons" interacting with a BPD.  It's fine and necessary to discuss your needs, but your boundaries aren't needs, they are actions YOU take in response to hers.

I think you put in a great effort in validating your wife after stating your needs concerning event planning because stating your needs will cause dysregulation for sure if you don't validate. BTW, she may dysregulate anyway, so try some more validation, and if that doesn't work, you may indeed have to resort to setting a boundary - and leave.  

What CdH says about how his W reacts to him not participating in, rather than trying to influence, or stop, his W's actions has been my experience as well. It's strange but you setting a boundary and stepping away is giving you "control" while at the same time giving your partner control. Obviously there's times you need to step in (piercings may indeed be one) and participate, but as time goes on, I am finding that my needs were more of a "control issue." that I HAD . Invariably when I step in, I get the "what do you think I am stupid?", and I have had to say to myself, "no, my W may have BPD, but she's not stupid".  And as CdH also notes, my W asks for my input more often as well - since I set boundaries and walked away from some of the things she does and I don't agree with (rather than state my needs where it's not critical), she asks for my input more often too.  

And along with the others I fully agree you don't discuss your W's dysregulation with her - ever.  Save it for the therapist and realize your T may or may not know what you are talking about.  

[CodependentHusband]

cartman,

   Way to go! As I said, I didn't have the back story on what the boundary was... .  when it is an issue with your child, such as piercings, that does call for slightly different action. Of course, we do need to pick our battles, I think. Some people think 11 years old is too young for a girl to have her ears pierced, while others have no quams at all with even a much younger age... .  My situation is a little different with D8, SD13 and SD15. I can fully step aside with the older children 99% of the time without any reservations, whereas I'm more apt to read my dBPDw the Riot Act over D8 if I don't agree with something concering her. Still, I ask myself though if it is worth the battle on some specific issues and I find that I have relaxed on a lot of things, realizing that D8 is being well-cared for, even if everything isn't done 100% as I would do for her on my own.

  Hang in there!

   

[cartman1]

Hey guys,

I had a quick talk to my wife about it this evening and asked if she thought I was out of order and she said that we had discussed it in the past. It was quite a while ago now knocking on 12 months and I had said I don't mind as long as that's what she wanted. Then my Daughter had asked my wife so she agreed but I didn't know the conversation had taken place. I apologised for upsetting her though, I won't be pointing out emotions in the future. I learned my lesson today. I usually pick a better time and place to talk about things like this in a more constructive manner.

I do think speaking to my T about this is a great idea and I completely except that my T may not see it how I did. The way I'm looking at it I'm the one actually in therapy and I'm totally commited to it for me and my family.

Usually I see a boundary being set when I want to live one of my values. Today I just wanted to make sure my values where being considered in a decision.