Anyone ever been 'painted white' even after being painted black as night?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Bentnotbroken> interesting... .  tell me more about this lack of impulse control (if you don't mind?)

So they basically come up with lies on the spot to try to manipulate you?

It seems so extreme to tell me she was almost raped... when it was obvious that I wasn't going to break up with her. I stormed off... but never even got to the front door! 

Her reaction (panic attack + rape story)  was nuts!  I feel ill thinking she lied to me about almost being raped.

So ill... .      I think this is one of the worst things besides her brutal dumping of course

One of Theodore Millon's (creator of the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory) proposed renamings of BPD: Impulsive Personality Disorder

BPD from the DSM-IV:

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

I have more to post on the impulse control issue, but I need to get out the door shortly. More later.

[BentNotBroken]

Bentnotbroken> interesting... .  tell me more about this lack of impulse control (if you don't mind?)

So they basically come up with lies on the spot to try to manipulate you?

It seems so extreme to tell me she was almost raped... when it was obvious that I wasn't going to break up with her. I stormed off... but never even got to the front door! 

Her reaction (panic attack + rape story)  was nuts!  I feel ill thinking she lied to me about almost being raped.

So ill... .      I think this is one of the worst things besides her brutal dumping of course

One of Theodore Millon's (creator of the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory) proposed renamings of BPD: Impulsive Personality Disorder

BPD from the DSM-IV:

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

I have more to post on the impulse control issue, but I need to get out the door shortly. More later.

[happiness68]

Part of an ego trip is my suspicion Diana.  No I wouldn't have tolerated it.  I couldn't.

[almost789]

The first time I was cut off or painted black was for no reason at all. It was about 3 months in and we had a wonderful time together, spoke to each other the next day about what a awesome time we had, told me how much he loved me and that he was a very lucky man. He sent me one last text saying miss my baby... .  then cut me off completely. I mean completely. It was the worst pain Id ever felt. I thought, are you serious, this was all not real, he just used me and then throw me away with out any explanation. No communication about anything? It was so awful, it really was. I felt physical pain and I was having alot of difficulty functioning. So, I found a way to reach him, through a friend of his. I begged and cried that he come back and I promised I would have no questions for him. Just for him to come back and just be friends at the very least. After about 2 weeks and a few more threats from me, that if he didn't come back soon I would write him off forever. He came back. Made up a big elaborate story that I new was a lie, told me he "freaked" and had to do it he was sorry. After this I was painted white again. Moreso than ever. I think he felt he finally had someone who would put up with his lies and ~ and still love him. So, now it really got even more intense and I ate it up of course. On occassion I would bring up what he did to me, but hardly ever, because when I would bring it up he would literally physically withdraw, his face would kind of change to this terrorized look, his hand would go up over his face. It clearly was a painful thing  to him to face this reality. So I never brought it up again. Then I got tired of the lies and began to question again months later, caught him in some of these lies, called him on them. He reacted by withdrawing so much I broke up with him. He then blame me for it all. And I've not been painted white again. And I don't really want to be because once your white you can always revert to black at any moment and I don't wish to put myself through that again.

[Faded]

Theblack/white isnt maybe how you see it happening.

I was blacker than black on a few occasions. The white paint doesnt come in the form of... .  'im her hero again' or 'i am her saviour again'. I think once the black comes out for the 1st time, the next coat of white is never white.

I think the white coat comes in the form of them not being currently abusive, they have currently calmed down from their whirlwind. So in fact we are not white, it is them who are white again.

When they paint black, anyone within range could catch a glossy coat. and the same for white, when they painting white, anyone within range could recieve a coat.



I think ultimately Diana, as sad as this may sound to you... .  

People choose NC for 2 reason...

1. To control another persons actions. (NC not for themselves)

2. To heal (NC for themselves)

It truly sounds like she chose NC for herself and wishes not to return and as tough as that sounds, you will eventually do the same in terms of moving on.

It is a process with no time limits or schedules, it rolls at a pace you decide.

I do understand how much this hurts, the anxiety caused by such actions. I can so sympathise with where you are at right now.

I can promise you one thing, its DOES get better with time and effort.

Time you have plenty of.

Effort? keep putting the effort in.

[mitti]

So your ex at least 'asked for your forgiveness'?

That's more than mine will ever do.  After she dumped me and I was crying... I said "what can I do... to make you forgive me?"  (stupid on reflection as I didn't do anthing wrong except bombard her with messages).

Yes, he did but I do think it is quite rare that they do and especially the way he did. He has been on his knees many times begging my forgiveness and crying. But for long periods he would never apologize for anything. I just think it is a part of his cycles. Saying that I do think he sincerely felt an enormous amount of guilt and was able to deal with appropriately i.e. ask forgiveness.

Diana82, don't feel stupid, we have all regretted taking all the blame and apologizing for things we had no business apologizing for. I have cried and begged and pleaded with my bf not to leave me in the past. He was cold as stone, and not budging an inch. But I don't anymore. When we know better, we do better.

[HardTruth]

Mine asked for forgiveness when he came and returned my stuff.  He wasn't done with me at that point, I suspect.  Wanted to switch gears and still have me in his life as a friend but the intimate part had triggered him - ie he didn't want to be fully abandoned.  There's a thread about the BPD withdrawal from the sex part but still wanting to be in contact, btw.

Anyway, I said I didn't know.  But a few days later I called him and said I could forgive him.  He was so excited - "Let's go snowboarding!", etc.  He suggested getting together on Thanksgiving since he was going to be in town at gathering for that.  On the day, he never returned my messages and completely blew me off. When he accidently butt-dialed me on his way home, and hung up after he heard me saying "hello... .  hello?", and then said there was something wrong with his phone.  Uh huh... .    I've never talked to him since.  He went NC shortly thereafter and told me to "leave me be".  Huh?

So, asking for forgiveness and taking some responsibility could be as fleeting and unstable as anything else.  Are they missing you?  :)o they want something from you?  Then you are more likely to see this.  :)oes it really MEAN anything that you can count on?  Hmm... .   I know that cold stoney face so well... .   When it comes time for them to dole out some compassion for you when YOU ask for it, don't be surprised if you don't get any.

[mitti]

So, asking for forgiveness and taking some responsibility could be as fleeting and unstable as anything else.  Are they missing you?  :)o they want something from you?  Then you are more likely to see this.  :)oes it really MEAN anything that you can count on?  Hmm... .   I know that cold stoney face so well... .   When it comes time for them to dole out some compassion for you when YOU ask for it, don't be surprised if you don't get any.

I can relate HardTruth, absolutely. And mine has done similar things to me in the past, just the other night actually. Asking me to go out, and then ditching me as I was ready to leave my house and just called to ask where to meet up. And many times he has asked forgiveness only as a means to get what he wants, calculated and callous, and even retracted a previous admission of guilt. Of course he has done all that on many occasions. Asking for him to take responsibility has never worked either, that's a trigger for him. But there have been times when he has sincerely been sorry for what he has done, where he not only was overcome with guilt and shame but also felt a lot of compassion for how it had affected me. This was after CT together for a few months. Doing something to make up for it though, that's a whole other story. He can't do it.

[HardTruth]

Mitti-  I'm so sorry to hear that.  That's so sad and hurtful.  It's so easy to have hope, and then it's such a betrayal to be let down again.  There was a point when my exBPD did take some responsibility for how he broke up with me, and how the way he did it hurt me immensely and unnecessarily, and I do believe he felt genuinely sorry for that.  I think he was genuinely ashamed of himself and how poorly he had acted after he was able to see it from my point of view.  He, unfortunately, couldn't stay there for very long and quickly got re-triggered again.  

He said something interesting, which was, "You know I didn't MEAN to hurt you.  It wasn't intentional."  as if that let him off the hook.  But even when he knew better, he couldn't help himself from hurting me again anyway.  And then when I asked him for the thing that would make it better - the phone call that he'd promised me - he said he wouldn't do it.  And that he was "truly sorry".  He wasn't truly sorry, of course.  He was just taking the easy way out and avoiding a situation that had become uncomfortable for him. 

[Diana82]

Did you guys ever find your ex couldn’t handle you having ANYTHING to do with your other exes and didn’t like you even commenting about other people’s good looks?

Yet they still kept in touch with exes and freely commented on the ‘hotness’ factor of others?

One thing my ex did which also annoyed me during the relationship was talk about hot men excessively. This is strange for a lesbian. 

Sure, we all see aesthetic beauty in both sexes. But she took it to a different level of weird.

It wasn’t even in context and she’d point out hot guys in the street to me... say she was in a “trance” sometimes when looking at a good looking man and even looked at a photo of my ex boyfriend whom I dated before I came out as gay and said “Oh! I’d gay straight for HIM!”

Once at a party she openly said to her friend in front of me “Your boyfriend is so hot. I couldn’t stop staring. My bisexual side was obviously coming out!”

So inappropriate.  I asked her to stop and I remember instead of apologising, she made me feel like I was weird for finding this strange. She said “Oh... I do this around my friends! It’s just funny because I’m so obviously a lesbian!”

Anyway... although she stopped with this talk... in front of me... for some reason I still had a strong feeling she was going around talking about hot men when I wasn’t around... probably saying how she thinks her bisexual side is coming out etc. And for some reason I felt like she didn’t really see how inappropriate it was and was likely to be laughing about how I did-with her friends.

When we had the break up fight... I was super emotional and bringing up past examples of my ex’s inconsistencies and changeability. And I brought this up and said “you probably still even talk about men like that”.  At one point for some reason I even said “why are you trying to say you’re such a goodytooshooes?”

I know... this fight sounds weird... but it was all fuelled from suspicion over her character and deception. We even got on to the subject of how she wouldn’t stop talking about how hot she found a male actor.

And she then got even angrier and went off at me again saying “NOBODY HAS EVER CALLED ME DECEPTIVE MY WHOLE LIFE. IT'S BIZARRE. YOU’RE SAYING SOMETHING VERY CLEAR ABOUT MY CHARACTER”

Of course calling your partner “goodytooshooes” and then implying they are still doing stuff behind your back shows a clear lack of trust from me.

I guess I was hoping she would try to reassure me for ONCE.

I had felt I was constantly reassuring my ex over her insecurities. But she would never tolerate me feeling insecure.

In this case, I was confused over her inconsistencies and possible deception.

And she would not have a BAR of it!

[Diana82]

Thanks for posting that, bentnotbroken!

I never knew of any suicide attempts from my ex (or she may have never told me).

But she did get easily snappy and defensive... and came across as very rude when she snapped.

Is this part of 'raging'?

It's not like my ex would just go off at me for no reason. She'd just be quick to snap loudly at you... even in a cafe... if you questioned her or she felt you were being critical.

[Diana82]

Happiness> ego thing... So you think she liked the attention of this woman as backup? I think my ex may also have narcissistic qualities.

Would you say it was "deceptive" of my ex to not tell this other "friend" she was seeing me for 3 months? My ex even told me after the Thailand trip "it's so good I didn't end up meeting her because of the fight! She would have tried to jump me!"

So if she knew this friend of hers had sexual intentions ... .  

1. Why would she even consider meeting her? Even though they had a text war my ex was still prepared to meet up

2. Why wouldn't she tell this "friend" she's dating me? Of course the friend would think my ex was free to "jump"!

I must have been desperate at the time to put up with that

[slimmiller]

I have a feeling if my ex did want to reconnect she may be embarassed or feel awkward... I know I would! If I had changed my number, ignored them and acted petty etc... [/quote]
I understand your sentiment but I have never seen them truly embarrassed or feeling awkward. She will likely never feel embarrased as it would be some remorse/responsibility on her part. I am not a betting man but thats about as likely to happen as me winning the lottery. We wish but... .  

[happiness68]

Diana - yes an ego trip for the attention.  From what I've learnt if BPD's feel they're not getting enough attention (despite what the truth may be), they will look to get attention from other sources.  It's almost to hurt us, though sometimes we know nothing about it, so won't get hurt, but I believe they gain some kind of pleasure out of it.

[BentNotBroken]

My ex often described herself as an "attention-whore"! Her words, not mine. I just assumed that she meant it when she said that is how she "used to be." Unfortunately, Leopards and most BPDs don't really change their spots despite what they say to keep you around.