Is there any way?

[DyingLove]

While it's still early and she's not home yet let me ask this question to you-

Is there any way in hell that I can have a conversation with my significant other regarding a tricky issue?

I crave conversation! I crave sitting face-to-face with someone, preferably somebody I love, and having an in depth discussion about something, anything, on a normal 1 to 1 basis.  Any time I feel brave and take a chance, I feel that I would have been better off going into the garage, getting the shovel, and digging a 6 foot deep hole to jump into. No matter how gentle or explanatory I am, I know that the first thing out of my significant others mouth is going to be: "well let me ask you this". Or a variation thereof. So it quickly goes from something that has the potential of a conversation to an interrogation. Must I even say who it is getting interrogated?

Well I'd like to hear your views on this. Even if you don't have a method, I'd like to hear your experiences. Gathering views from someone's hands-on experience can be quite valuable. Of course my many thanks in advance.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[amaris]

Sorry to say in my experience there isn't much chance of having a reasonable conversation unless it is totally validating to the BPD.   They will always turn anything that is about them in a negative way around to be about you or bring up another subject all together to get the focus off of them.  I have been attacked verbally when I have tried to ease into any conversation looking for reason or support for my own issues most every time.  I have learned to take care of myself, find others I can confide in and find support, and not try to make him into something he is not.  He is not able to support me in any of my pain or trials without making it totally about him.  You eventually get to a place of acceptance that you cannot change her and only change yourself and take care of yourself... .  she will never be what you would like her to be... .  when I finally accepted this I saved myself a lot of heart ache... .  sad, but true... :'(

[DyingLove]

Sorry to say in my experience there isn't much chance of having a reasonable conversation unless it is totally validating to the BPD.   They will always turn anything that is about them in a negative way around to be about you or bring up another subject all together to get the focus off of them.  I have been attacked verbally when I have tried to ease into any conversation looking for reason or support for my own issues most every time.  I have learned to take care of myself, find others I can confide in and find support, and not try to make him into something he is not.  He is not able to support me in any of my pain or trials without making it totally about him.  You eventually get to a place of acceptance that you cannot change her and only change yourself and take care of yourself... .  she will never be what you would like her to be... .  when I finally accepted this I saved myself a lot of heart ache... .  sad, but true... :'(

Thank you amaris.  I think sad is an understatement but everything you said seems to be so true. Then I just want to take a club, and whack myself with it also. It seems that being in love with the BPD, is kind of similar to being in love with tropical fish. We have them in a glass bowl to take care of them and admire them. They do give us pleasure, actually they give us more pleasure than a BPD. While tropical fish are calming, BPD'ers are not. Around every corner you never know what you're going to be up against. So how do we even justify having a BPD partner.

By the way do you know or does anybody know if there are any groups here is that use Skype to get together for talk sessions? Kind a like shooting the bull and discussing things pertinent to BPD?

[briefcase]

I may have misunderstood your question, but I think you are asking about just talking about anything, not necessarily a "difficult" topic about the relationship.  

Maybe give us some topics you'd like to talk to her about and we can help.  

As far as the "interrogation" style of her conversations, maybe you could "set up" the conversation so she knows you just want to chat.  "I'd like to hear your opinion about . . . "  "Tell me what you think about . . . ."  Or something like that, which doesn't invite a question back to you.  If she still turns it into a question directed at you, then redirect her to your question.  "I really want to hear what you think."  

The overall subject matter (lack of conversation) can be addressed in a DEARMAN format if you want to raise the issue directly (and you might have to).  Let her know you need something more and that you feel interrogated when all you want is her opinion about a movie, the weather, politics or something else.

[briefcase]

By the way do you know or does anybody know if there are any groups here is that use Skype to get together for talk sessions? Kind a like shooting the bull and discussing things pertinent to BPD?

That's what these forums are for!   

[DyingLove]

I may have misunderstood your question, but I think you are asking about just talking about anything, not necessarily a "difficult" topic about the relationship.  

Maybe give us some topics you'd like to talk to her about and we can help.  

As far as the "interrogation" style of her conversations, maybe you could "set up" the conversation so she knows you just want to chat.  "I'd like to hear your opinion about . . . "  "Tell me what you think about . . . ."  Or something like that, which doesn't invite a question back to you.  If she still turns it into a question directed at you, then redirect her to your question.  "I really want to hear what you think."  

The overall subject matter (lack of conversation) can be addressed in a DEARMAN format if you want to raise the issue directly (and you might have to).  Let her know you need something more and that you feel interrogated when all you want is her opinion about a movie, the weather, politics or something else.

Thanks briefcase, as far as discussing things via Skype, it would sort of be like posting questions and replies but having a sort of BPD rap session. It would be nice if something could be scheduled and people would join it. Seeing people and hearing voices is a good thing. Like I've said many times I sit alone all day working in the home or trying to work in the home and I don't have as much human interaction as I would like to. I was a businessman in New York with my own retail shop and this is quite different being so isolated.

Back on my topic, I see there is no remedy for what I'm asking. I guess it's mainly trial and error, mostly error. It's almost irregardless of how it begins, it always ends up with her looking in my eyes while gently squinting hers as she says: well let me ask you this. That's when I know it's coming. I hate being interrogated and literally that's what it is.

[Rockylove]

I think I'd change tactics... .  when she says "let me ask you this" you can always respond with "I plead the 5th"    I'm joking... .  sort of.  I think I would say that you appreciate her need to ask you questions, but you do not have to answer and that you'd rather hear what she has to say on the subject.

[DyingLove]

I think I'd change tactics... .  when she says "let me ask you this" you can always respond with "I plead the 5th"    I'm joking... .  sort of.  I think I would say that you appreciate her need to ask you questions, but you do not have to answer and that you'd rather hear what she has to say on the subject.

LOL  Plead the 5th... .  I think it goes good with the interrogation!  :-)

[CodependentHusband]

You know, I miss that too, so, I think I know what you mean. I've found now that I can spot the very early stages of my wife starting to dysregulate. I've gotten better at changing the subject "on the fly," and that works pretty well if you can pull it off... .  Took a lot of practice to get where I am with that now. Lol. Of course, if that fails, I have an internal alarm now that says, "Abort! Abort!" and I disengage as gracefully as I can, excusing myself to the other room. Of course, I'm married to pwBPD, so this particular approach may not work for those that do not live together... .  Might have to be creative.

Your analogy of tropical fish sounds pretty fitting. I've also seen pwBPD compared to cats. On one level, I see the humor in it. On another level, I guess it might be considered insensitive... I think maintaining a sense of humor is important though.

[Rockylove]

I hope I don't seem flippant in my responses... .  but there are times (more often than not) that I use a bit of humor to overcome the intense feelings that accompany dealing with someone whose issues are beyond my comprehension.  I don't care to control anyone but myself and I use laughter and light-hearted comments to keep myself from going off the deep end.  No harm intended.

[CodependentHusband]

Humor is good, but I've not found it to be a good tool when my wife starts to dysregulate. She finds nothing I say funny at those times, and I think she's feels I'm being invalidating to her. That's not to say I don't snicker to myself on occasion. Lol

[DyingLove]

My tablet is acting up on the road.  I will respond fully later but wantd to say that HUMOR takes the edge off this sad sad way of life. I just wouldn't want to be a stand up comic in a room full of BPD individuals!  But seriously folks... .    :-)

[CodependentHusband]

Yes... .  tough crowd, indeed!     Thing is, when my wife is in a good mood, NOBODY laughs herder than her. I love to see her laugh.

[DyingLove]

Yes... .  tough crowd, indeed!     Thing is, when my wife is in a good mood, NOBODY laughs herder than her. I love to see her laugh.

I see you love your woman the same way I love mine. It's unfortunate that we have to look at them the way we do. yes they walk with us but we watch out for them the same way teaching a dog to heel with us being the dog. when I use to train dogs to heal you would make quick sharp turns while holding the lead tight and the dog would have to watch your every move to know when to turn that is if he wanted to stay with his head. kind of the same thing we have to watch every move they make everything they say and when they're happy we're happy when they're sad we are lousy.

[Steph]

 " Well, let me ask you this... "

You : Not right now. I am hoping to hear your thoughts about... .  

or

You: Please hold your questions until after I have had the opportunity to finish what I am needing/wanting to say

or " Sure... one question. Then, I am going to steer this conversation back on track"

It seems to me that you allow her to control things with that one sentence she uses. Dont! Do it differently and likely, she will, as well. She says what she does, and you seem to step back and allow her to go her own way. It doesnt have to go that way. If she keeps up with the interrogation, politely excuse yourself and exit for a time. Eventually, she will understand that you arent allowing this tactic to have the same results

We can have a mock conversation online here, if you like

Steph

[DyingLove]

very interesting Steph.  logical but a little different than my way of thinking because i am stuck in the box! i am fearful of the results of walking away... .  i think it would open a new can of whoop ass.

[CodependentHusband]

very interesting Steph.  logical but a little different than my way of thinking because i am stuck in the box! i am fearful of the results of walking away... .  i think it would open a new can of whoop ass.

Yes... .  you are right. I won't lie to you about that. It may well go very poorly the first several times you walk away... .  However, you are 'training' her on how you will be treated. This change in you will be confusing and scary for her. You are scared of her reaction because you want her to be happy and you don;t want to lose her or upset her. Reality is that you simply can't control that. When we realize that we can't control their emotions, we learn to take a different approach. After the extinction burst from you exiting the conversations that go bad, they quit trying to pick fights as much. They may try again later, but the frequency will drop dramatically. Your job is to respond consistently! If you aren't consistent, you prolong the pain for both of you, and, ultimately there is no change.

Hope this helps.

[CodependentHusband]

I want to make sure I'm clear... .  My use of the word 'training,' may be misinterpreted, and I don't want to give the impression that this is being done to exploit. This is done out of necessity and is done with love in your heart. It's too easy to feel resentful of the fact that you can't simply talk to your pwBPD. She can't control her emotions, and you are inadvertently pushing her buttons (triggering).

[Steph]

 Be sure to read the Lessons.

What is hard is truly understanding that we also are responsible for the way things go badly. We behave in certain ways out of fear, obligation, guilt, and all that does is keep the dynamics poor, the relationship bad and everyone unhappy.

[HarmKrakow]

Is there a way? I don't know. I have been craving for a in depth conversation about anything with my significant other, however, it either hits one of her boiling points, she becomes aggressive or she just remains super shallow in the conversation and just wants to keep it 'fun' and 'lowminded'.

Uffffffff...

[DyingLove]

Thank you everyone for your replies. A lot of good information there.

This past weekend was one of the worse weekend's that I've ever had. But I'll probably say that again next weekend (hopefully not). But it did extensively involve trying to have a conversation. My head was spinning, my stomach churning, totally depleted of energy and drive! My significant other actually craves me to talk to her. She outright tells me that she is the one who loves me and she is the one who is going to spend the rest of her life with me and I should be able to talk to her. Then I proceed to fall for it, and talk to her. It's almost like a radio playing two different stations at the same time. I'm going to tell you what's built into me... .  when I know that I can't make anything better with my words, I stop talking. I firmly believe that I am able to defuse the situation by not adding more to it. But I think this is being proved to me to be wrong. It seems that when I shut up, I cause more problems on top of more problems. Damned if I do damned if I don't scenario. Another thing I've learned this weekend is that she got better as I got worse. She said she felt better from talking and telling me over and over and over what she was trying to explain to me. I literally began shaking at one point, unable to deal with the tension in my nerves. There's no one else I can talk to and feel good. We took a drive yesterday and I got a haircut. There's one woman here in Florida that cuts my hair fantastically and I travel about 25 miles each way to get the job done. It's nice to make it a family outing we all hopped in the car and got going. Prior to that there was a lot of friction here in the house. Tell me if I'm wrong, but when somebody says something it kind of puts it out in the open for conversation, discussion, remarks. While that's at least how I see it, and I've never had a problem would thinking that way in my entire life. In fact it's not even something I had to think about, it just comes natural. But I realized all the things that used to come natural, all the things that were just instinctive, I have to actually give thought to. Because a remark is no longer just a remark,, it has become something totally different to my significant other.

Does anybody here run out into an open field just to scream? Or maybe scream into a pillow? Are there any real tension relievers when you feel like you just about to see reddened boil over? Is it the fact that things go good for several days and then they go bad and I just can't get used to that? I would think by now I would be used to the habitual behavior, but it just isn't happening. Does anybody else actually lose sleep during the night over this? I've got my melatonin and my Valerian and roots and still sometimes I just can't get any restful sleep. I guess enough ranting and raving for the moment. All of you out there on these forums are just wonderful! I would really feel totally totally totally lost without you.

[briefcase]

Patience.  This takes time.   

What are you afraid of?  Does she scream, yell and rage?  Does she give "silent treatments"?  I'm sorry if I missed it, but what exactly has you walking on eggshells?

[DyingLove]

Patience.  This takes time.   

What are you afraid of?  Does she scream, yell and rage?  Does she give "silent treatments"?  I'm sorry if I missed it, but what exactly has you walking on eggshells?

Let me try and elaborate.  Everyone gets mad differently.  But is I do something that doesn't "JIVE" her just right, she will back away, put on a "I'M MAD FACE" and then proceed with something like: "well I was in a good mood" or "whatever" or "just when I thought I was doing something good" (accompanied by shrewd looking face and pointing her head towards me... .  sort of like intimidating).  After any of these, I know how the outcome is going to be. If I walk away or dispute her somehow, then it opens the door to something like: "WELL LET ME ASK YOU THIS... .  " or "SO ARE YOU SAYING... .  " or something of the like.  Most of the time, I'm telling her how she cannot do anything right, that she is a bad mother, that my way is ALWAYS right and she doesn't count, or like I said, I thought I was doing something good, but no, I can't do anything right!  There are more things she throws at me, but it all adds up to hours and hours of repititious remarks of mostly my own comments thrown right back in my face.  Lets see... .  did I forget anything?  :-)