Betrayal?

[amaris]

Has any other SO of BPDh had trouble with their BPD talking about them to friends and collegues behind their back.  On numerous occasions my BPDh has told people that he would be around while in a dysregulation mode-- horrible things about me that are simply not true... .  it is a nightmare and the supreme betrayal.  It has gotten back to me on numerous occasions and I have actually been verbally attacked by so called mutual friends for things my husband told them about me.  He seeks validation for his craziness when he is like this by painting me out to be this horrible person.  Then when he is normal again he denies it when I find out and confront him with the evidence.  He has apologized a few times but it continues to happen.  He triangulates with my friends, or tries to, but most are now aware of what he does and confronted him with "why would you betray your wife when you are supposed to be partners and have each others backs?"    How does one deal with this even if we know that they are capable of it at any time?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Auspicious]

Yes, it's a nasty thing to do. No, you can't stop him from doing it.

So if you are going to stay, the thing to figure is what you can change to make life easier for you.

Possibilities:

Friend: Hey, guess what your husband said about you ... .  it was awful.

You: Well, if it's awful I really don't want to hear it.

Friend: Well, he said you did {awful thing}. Why would he say that?

You: I really don't know. So, read any good books lately?

[elemental]

yeh, don't even bother to try and address it. This happened to me a lot in the last year and I tried to confront, etc.

It led to massive problems.

It really hurt me deeply, but detaching has helped me simply accept this happens.

You really don't want to get sucked into it.

[yeeter]

A REALLY hard one to accept amaris.  My wife is a master at it.

If someone confronts me directly on something I open the door for them to learn more.  Something like, 'there are two sides to every story'  and 'we have different perspectives on it'.  I use this sparingly, to a select few that I already have some interaction/relationship with.

To complete strangers or those I have never met - as mentioned just change the subject.

But for me, the single biggest way to combat this, has been to engage directly in the community.  :)evelop my own interactions.  Walk the walk at all times.

People form their own opinions, and often these opinions change after getting to know me.  Then this cascades (because people talk to each other) into not taking everything she says as the absolute truth.  I have even had people that have come up to me now and said directly, that they see that not everything she says reflects reality.  I just thank them.

Dont get into a gossip war he said/she said to try to combat it.  Nothing to gain from that.  Live your life and be the person you want to be - people will notice and get it.

A long term, high road approach.  But it has worked for me and each year gets better and better.

[mitti]

Has any other SO of BPDh had trouble with their BPD talking about them to friends and collegues behind their back.

Oh yes, absolutely and it's awful and hurtful and humiliating, and I have no idea what you can do about it. My pwBPD did the same. Whenever he would be going through push and create a situation so that he could leave or give me the silent treatment he would project his own issues on me. It wasn't actually until we had been together for a long time that I realized that he would be accusing me of all sorts of disordered behavior behind my back and not only that, he would then take the advice given to him based on his flawed description of me and our r/s dynamic. This caused even more chaos in our r/s. I have had people on FB unfriend me. I can't know what the reason is of course, but that makes it even more difficult to deal with. Like your H mine would triangulate me and his friends or work colleagues but even though I am sure they find him a bit unstable and hot tempered, I doubt that changes how they see me. Like your H he has apologized and been quite distraught about having said such horrible things about me. He understands now they were not the truth and he feels bad but he will never try to put things right. There's too much shame because basically he made white black and vice versa.

[Cloudy Days]

My husband does something like this occasionally. He likes to pretty much bad mouth me to his family for some reason. He will text nasty text messages about me to his brother and his mom and even sometimes his cousins. It really pisses me off when he does it. At one point and I actually don't know if he has done it again since then but he has an old girl/friend that he was never romantic with from highschool on his facebook. I went to check something one time on his facebook and came upon emails of him basically telling her that I am cheating on him and how much he hates me and even told her detailed information about our sex life. I know he's not having a romantic relationship with this girl, but it really hurt that he would say crap like that to almost a stranger. I did confront him about it and he acted like he did nothing wrong.

What drives me even more nuts about this issue is that my husband always accuses me of talking about him behind his back to my family or people I know. I don't want people to know the madness in my life why would I go blabbing about it? It's not something I would ever do.

[briefcase]

Most people who know me and my wife figure things out.  Just be yourself.  Your actions around other people will speak much louder than any words spoken behind your back. 

[HarmKrakow]

Most people who know me and my wife figure things out.  Just be yourself.  Your actions around other people will speak much louder than any words spoken behind your back. 

True, but in this occassion you might always lose a friend or 2, not because they were not good friends, but because they were typical people who can be subdued by populistic comments.

[dapperman]

Dear amaris, Don't feel bad or should I say try not too because i'm going thru the same thing with my BPDW.  They can say some mean and hurtful things.  My best advice for you is to do what I did and that's detaching yourself from him because if you don't it will make matters worse.  Don't get sucked in. 

[amaris]

    wow, everyone... .  had no idea that I wasn't alone in this... .  seems to be a very common thing BPD's do to their so... .  this has helped me to detach a little more and not expect him to ever admit what he has done... .  this recent thing he did where we got a letter from a business partner tearing me apart, and reminding him of what he 'confided' in them about me was a horrible blow... .  he jerked up the letter and shredded it before I could read the whole thing... .  it must have been very slanderous... .  when I told him I saw that part before he destroyed the letter he hung his head and acted so tired and said lets just not go there... this person is just trying to divide us... .  I can't talk about it... .  "  duh ... .  this is what happens every time... .  he used to triangulate with my close friends in a hang dog fashion to let them know what I was really like, until they caught on and were horrified that my h would do such a thing... .  they started confronting him and it back fired... .  so now he goes to his own friends when he needs to spew his weird sense of me when he dysregulates.   It is so despicable to be married to someone, who most of the time treats you well, who would betray and lie about the very person he is terrified would leave him... .    we are a separate race of people who choose to live this way... .  

[waverider]

This is extremely common, and bear in mind what he tells you about how horrible and abusive others are to him its the same thing going the other way.

Couple of times when a third party has asked me about this I have said it wasn't me she was talking about it was the pixies at the bottom   of the garden she often plays with, defuses it with a little humour.

[amaris]

Good to remember... .  never thought of that and he does that often... but have noticed that the next week he is back with them as his best friends... .  interesting... .  Of course!   Love the Pixies... .  humor makes it so much easier to take and I choose to not be devastated!   

[Auspicious]

Most people who know me and my wife figure things out.  Just be yourself.  Your actions around other people will speak much louder than any words spoken behind your back. 

True, but in this occassion you might always lose a friend or 2, not because they were not good friends, but because they were typical people who can be subdued by populistic comments.

This is sadly one of the risks of being associated with a mentally ill person.

[HarmKrakow]

Most people who know me and my wife figure things out.  Just be yourself.  Your actions around other people will speak much louder than any words spoken behind your back. 

True, but in this occassion you might always lose a friend or 2, not because they were not good friends, but because they were typical people who can be subdued by populistic comments.

This is sadly one of the risks of being associated with a mentally ill person.

Unfortunately that is indeed the case.  :'(

[Cardinals in Flight]

Most people who know me and my wife figure things out.  Just be yourself.  Your actions around other people will speak much louder than any words spoken behind your back. 

Hard to enact, but best advice ever!

My pwBPD trashes everyone in her life, says such negative, ugly things about them, has from our beginning.  It used to really rile me up, of course to defend her! Defend her against people I did not even know!  Fail!  I learned that she no doubt trashes me to others as well, because you see, she was/is in contact with all of these people she trashes, some she even calls her best friends.

Since my pwBPD compartmentalizes all of her relationships so that they all don't really know one another, I had to just accept this as is... .  and be myself always.  I've met some of these folks randomly (much to her chagrin), and at first glance have a hard time believing they really are as she says. 

This is all pure conjecture on my part, but it's been a process using everything I've learned about BPD to figure this stuff out for myself.

Try to step back, and not engage no matter how much discomfort you feel in the moment, if you can do that, it usually will pay off.

Good luck

CiF

[Cloudy Days]

Has anyone else started to rethink how they veiw a lot of the people that used to be in your BPD's life. It goes along with this subject because to my husband almost everyone he has come in contact with he feels like they have screwed him over in some way. I wish I knew the truth. When I first met my husband he made me believe his family was the scum of the earth and screwed him over royaly. I'm starting to wonder what he did to provoke it. I've seen many bashing sessions of people that I veiw as decent and loving people that wouldn't hurt my husband. It brings things to reality for me of how sick he actually is. I have learned to Validate his feelings no matter who I feel is at fault and I have learned to not look at these people the same way he sees them. Does anyone else start wondering what's the actual truth?

[yeeter]

Has anyone else started to rethink how they veiw a lot of the people that used to be in your BPD's life.

Well, I dont worry too much about her relationship with her friends.  But I have noticed that most of them are ones where she can control what is presented in a very particular way, to get admiration and attention.  This means most of her good friends are younger than she is - and look up to her as this worldly accomplished amazing person (this feeds the NPD stuff).

The more mature people she has befriended tend not to last.  They challenge her on something after a while or offer a different perspective - get painted black - and thats it.  Its usually about a 6month cycle.

Some of these people then seem to be much more friendly towards me (after experiencing first hand)

[tuli]

   wow, everyone... .  had no idea that I wasn't alone in this... .  seems to be a very common thing BPD's do to their so... .  this has helped me to detach a little more and not expect him to ever admit what he has done... .  this recent thing he did where we got a letter from a business partner tearing me apart, and reminding him of what he 'confided' in them about me was a horrible blow... .  he jerked up the letter and shredded it before I could read the whole thing... .  it must have been very slanderous... .  when I told him I saw that part before he destroyed the letter he hung his head and acted so tired and said lets just not go there... this person is just trying to divide us... .  I can't talk about it... .  "  duh ... .  this is what happens every time... .  he used to triangulate with my close friends in a hang dog fashion to let them know what I was really like, until they caught on and were horrified that my h would do such a thing... .  they started confronting him and it back fired... .  so now he goes to his own friends when he needs to spew his weird sense of me when he dysregulates.   It is so despicable to be married to someone, who most of the time treats you well, who would betray and lie about the very person he is terrified would leave him... .    we are a separate race of people who choose to live this way... .  

Amaris, I just wanted to say that I am sorry this is happening to you.  That is so hurtful, even if it happens to many here it is still a low blow.  My advice is not based on knowing your situation, so it may not apply at all.  I think if I was committed to staying married to someone who was doing this to me, I would need to tell anyone who I got word that I was being smeared to that he has borderline, and that this part is of the symptoms, and you are sorry they got involved.  Once the situation spreads to those outside your and his family, I don't think confidentiality helps, and they should know that it is a normal, if very sick part of the condition.  But each situation is different, and I wouldn't presume to tell someone how to handle smearing.

In terms of how to handle it within your own psyche, I think what you say here gives an important insight into the mechanics of borderline smearing.  You say that some of the people caught on and called him on his behavior.  This is a very good confirmation that he is only doing it because he can get away with it.  If everyone he tried this with reacted as your friends do, he would stop the behavior entirely.  Too bad we can't get everyone involved in a zero tolerance campaign for bullying behavior.  It would really help.

BPDs are very emotional, and they are usually not able to stand outside of themselves to ask themselves what their beliefs are that fuel their anger even in calm times.  But armed with the knowledge that all human emotions are fueled by either a belief, whether conscious or unconscious, you can get a pretty good idea of what his beliefs might be.  Lucky for us BPD beliefs and behavior have been found to be bizarrely similar and people can predict with great accuracy and few exceptions what their general belief system is when it comes to social relations. 

We now know that most acting out borderlines believe that since they have no control over their emotions others need to suppress their emotion to not upset them and they believe that people who don’t do this for them are terrible people who deserve to be punished and that they have the right to dole out the punishment. 

They often believe that people owe them something because they had a hard life and because of this others should be endlessly supportive to all their emotions and if we don’t they believe we are terrible people who they have a right to punish. 

They may believe others should at all times be thinking about what they can do to be sensitive and kind to them, and that is other people's duty owed to them. 

These beliefs are anti-social, amoral.  Although there is no criminal activity taking place, these ethics are more in line with criminal mentality, and therefore socially unacceptable, or going against social mores.

He may not be aware that these are the beliefs that fuel him, but since people's ethics are determined by their behavior rather than their words, we can interpret them based on his actions.  The hard part is taking a very difficult Zen stance of holding firmly onto the morals of your good conscience at the very moment that the bad conscience sitting on his shoulder is spitting out the complete opposite towards you. 

[Vatz]

My girlfriend probably says less-than-savory things to one of her male friends. Apparently he's "So     ing in love with her." She told me that he pulled her aside to confess his love and say how "He could do better than me."

I hadn't looked at her texts, but I'm CERTAIN that she complains about me to him.

But you wanna know something crazy? I think I've gotten past that emotionally. She's gonna do it, and the guy is still going to hope and pray she decides to dump me for him. I don't really think much of it anymore, because the joke would be on him.

Anyway, yes, I am sure that my BPDGF talks poorly about me when I'm not around. At first when I realized that she would complain (mostly to guys) about how I wasn't understanding enough, or caring enough, or maybe didn't do enough, I felt pretty devastated. But now, I just take it on the chin (most times.)

Also, I am sorry you are going through this. It can be very painful, and the feeling of betrayal is totally understandable. But this is what BPD's do. They are so scared of being alone that they try to create a web of orbiting people so that if the primary person in their life leaves, they can just jump to the next sucker.

[amaris]

Newbie and Vatz... .  incredible insight and most enlightening.   Sometimes it is hard but at the same time a relief to know that we are dealing with such an incredible injustice towards us, yet in knowing that they are mentally ill makes it a little more endurable.   If there wasn't the good sides we would leave.  If we know how to navigate and have the endurance to hang in there... .  we can make the choices accordingly.   Everytime it happens I am left with my mouth hanging open in disbelief that he would do such a horrible thing to his wife whom the day before he was singing my praises to the same people he would diss me too... .  the normal mind does not compute or excuse this kind of abusive behavior... .  thus we detach and ride it out and trust our true friends will see the truth... .  I agree with you Newbie on telling the friends who are close to me his problem, and I do that quite often... .  the ones he knows are the ones he does that too... he tried with my friends and they cut him off.   This is really a hard one.