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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Not returning your stuff. Seriously What is that about?  (Read 2274 times)
Suzn
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« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2013, 03:23:05 PM »

Don't you guys have issues knowing you have personal stuff which REMINDS you of your mental pwBPD? 

There will always be things that remind us of our exs. Issues with it? Not after fully detaching and that takes time. I have a few pictures and Im glad I do. It reminds me of the beginning of this recovery process that was needed long before I met my ex. 
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« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2013, 03:51:55 PM »

I agree with Suzn. I have personal things of my ex's too. It no longer has any impact on me.

While the thought of wiping away every trace of them seems appealing - real detachment is about your mind/feelings not possessions.
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BlushAndBashful
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« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2013, 06:09:51 PM »

Don't you guys have issues knowing you have personal stuff which REMINDS you of your mental pwBPD? 

It DID bother me. It doesn't now. Some of it I just recently unearthed, and some things I held onto for dear life because I needed that constant reminder of him when he vanished (NO, I don't have BPD, thank you very much). Kind of like a remembrance of the dead.

I have a whole box of things that remind me of him. Very few things that were his belongings (a couple of shirts, a tie, etc) but a lot of his gifts, cards, concert tickets, etc.  I haven't had the strength to destroy them, but I don't have them around. They are in a box far in the back of the closet ... .  to the left, to the left... .  

It bothered me because I AM just that kind of person who wants everything to be totally fair and do "the right thing". It bothered me he would just walk away from it and if I offered it to him, he'd say "no, that's okay, it's just not important".  Now, I'm okay. I did my part. My side of the sidewalk is clean.
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Diana82
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« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2013, 09:27:42 PM »

Mauser>

I'm similar... I believe in being decent and fair. It's decent to exchange each other's stuff after a break up. To put aside anger/hurt and just be adults. It's decent to not ignore someone when they try to reach out to you in a polite way.

It's indecent to ignore someone for months after they go to such trouble to even email you at work. I even told my ex I do not wish to reconcile anymore- I just want my things returned.

But the silence was deafening.

I guess if she wanted to infuriate me it worked.
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Diana82
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« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2013, 09:29:43 PM »

I also found it really insulting that she dumped 3 books of mine in plastic on my sidewalk. No note or anything.

Anyone could have just thrown them away or trodden on them. She couldn't even put them in my letterbox or even inside my gate!

Unless she got someone else to do it for her...

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Clearmind
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« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2013, 09:55:21 PM »

Diana, yes its insulting I agree. You are also hurting I get that.

There comes a time when the resentment, anger and bitterness subsides - time is part of the solution and changing your thinking is the other biggie. You may resent the fact she 'dumped' your stuff or that it may have been someone else who 'dumped' it there on her behalf - all true! - then what - can you change it now?

How can you change your thinking so you can move past the resentment. Resentment causes ulcers - and its really not helping you detach.

Again its not about the stuff - what is really bothering you?

We also have to be mindful of where to draw the line with our resentment. Do you feel like you need validation for how you are feeling? Maybe a hard question however your thinking is concerning me.
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BentNotBroken
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« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2013, 10:46:08 PM »

Yes, your ex behaved badly. You are obviously hoping to re-engage her in a conversation under the pretense of needing an explanation about your stuff. You don't even know for certain if she has it. You have been told both directly and indirectly that she does not.

She may be keeping those things as momentos of you. Just like a serial killer might keep momentos of each victim. Does that make you feel better about it?

You are stuck. Your BPDex is mentally ill, so she will not behave like a "normal adult" as she is not one. You, on the other hand need to get whatever therapy it takes to get unstuck, or this will eat you alive. Think about it, you are demanding that a mentally ill child in an adult's body behave like a normal adult. It is not going to happen.

This may seem harsh, but tell the truth. Is what is really going on about the stuff or is it that you are hurt, lonely, and angry? I am too, but if I stay stuck my son will be stuck in BPD hell with his BPD mother.
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« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2013, 11:20:34 PM »

Your ex... .  Your stuff... .  Yourself.

Which of those is most important?

Which one are you focused on?

How can that change for the better?

What, deep down, helps keep this churning?

Seriously. What's that about?

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BentNotBroken
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« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2013, 11:38:59 PM »

I also found it really insulting that she dumped 3 books of mine in plastic on my sidewalk. No note or anything.

Anyone could have just thrown them away or trodden on them. She couldn't even put them in my letterbox or even inside my gate!

Unless she got someone else to do it for her...

In plastic? That is almost considerate. I would bet it was not done by your BPDex.

No note or anything? Aha! This is about re-engagement, isn't it?

Or at least some type of validation/acknowledgement that you are a human being. She may not have the simple human decency to give you that. You will have to get it here. I don't even know you, but I can feel your pain. It oozes out of your posts. I have been there. You can get unstuck. You deserve better--your feelings DO matter!
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Diana82
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« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2013, 02:05:01 AM »

Yes I'm hurt. I'm in pain daily and seeing a Therapist again in two weeks time...

I switch between being crazy angry and bitter at my ex... .  to feeling sad and lost.

But the main feeling I have is disbelief at how childhish she has been.  And my poor judgement. Thinking that she was a decent person.

I have dated really average people before... .  my other ex was a liar who went behind my back and went on job interviews for an overseas position.

But my recent exBPD I thought was different. I trusted her stories of abuse...

I genuinely thought she had been a poor victim all her life.

The one thing that attracted me to her on the first date was her openness and honesty. She didn't seem to 'hide anything' like the other ex did.

She was always talking about doing the decent thing... telling me how so many are not 'decent' and respectful and that she is. Yet she has proven to be the most indecent one I've ever dated.

It feels like I am gullible... that I have poor judgement.

My own sister was able to pick up months earlier that my exBPD always looked insecure in public. My sister said she had noticed my ex looked uncomfortable and like she had 'safety issues'.

And sure enough when my sister pointed it out... I saw it.



And 3 weeks before we split up, I was in a casual pub with my ex and sitting next to her talking. I was being silly and leaned into her trying to stare her in the eyes and she FREAKED out and moved away from me.

It was so weird. And she told me that her ex (the one she claimed had almost raped her) was always forcing PDA on her and she didn't like it.

She tells me this 3 years into our relationship. Again... brand new info. And baggage.

This lead me to feel I didn't understand her at all by this stage. Because other times she was all over me in public and didn't mind me being silly.

However- I still feel that other people may have not been so gullible with her victim stories and perhaps would have had better judgement. They may have seen that she is 'off' a lot earlier than me and this behaviour ie silence and not returning my stuff wouldn't have been a surprise.

Even my sister says "It doesn't surprise me. It's consistent with her drama queen ways. If anyone else changed their number like that I'd think they were crazy... but I'm not surprised she did. And I'm not surprised she's not talking to you and playing the victim. This is who she is"

I want to know how to better read people early on
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Diana82
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« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2013, 02:13:04 AM »

bentnotbroken>

Sorry I meant the books were in a plastic bag on my sidewalk near my gate. But I wouldn't leave her stuff on the sidewalk if she lived in a house!

I would open the gate and put it inside the gate (unless she couldn't open my gate or was too scared to come that close).

In my email to my ex I asked her what I should do with HER stuff as well. I had her jacket, books, phD files. And she lives in a flat so I could hardly just dump it outside the flat. (maybe I should have).

And she didn't respond about that and drops less than half of the stuff I wanted back on my sidewalk without even responding to my emails.

I remember asking my dad about what to do next. He said to send a polite email saying "Thanks but I'm still missing ... .    can you please return these too"

So i did.  And because she was doing the whole 'silence' thing... I didn't hear back nor did I get anymore of my stuff back.

How hard would it have been to have said a simple one liner 'sorry, I actually don't have that stuff... not sure where it is... "

by not responding... it made me continue to ask her about it... it made me angry... and it made me wind up going to her house.

Felt like a set up to make me look like the crazy one
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Clearmind
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« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2013, 02:29:38 AM »

D82, you are fixated on what she does, doesn't do, didn't do and you go around around in circles. I see it in your posts. I do feel for you trust me.

There comes a time where we need to be conscious of what we are doing to ourselves by ruminating about the intricacies of it all. We cannot pick it apart using a needle! Your ex has the emotional capability of a 3 year old! Watched any 3 year olds lately. Our expectations of our ex's are high considering their emotional maturity age.

You need validation that you are not crazy, you may need validation that what you experienced is what really happened. Breathe! You may lack trust - trust in yourself. Do you see this is about you my friend not her. You did experience all these things and you may not quite believe it yet - but - you needed to be loved for whatever reason... we all needed to be loved. We needed it so bad we put a blindfold on!

Real love takes time, it takes a great deal of inquiry... of yourself and your emotions/feelings and of the other person. Its takes some thought and asking the hard questions about whether this person in front of me is right for me - this is real mature adult love.

Diana82 - while we are on this topic of you and your relationship - are you able to dig a little deeper with your posts and really think about your own background, the expectations brought on you as a child, your parents relationship style and how that may have impacted you today, your anger is imbedded in your past and your ex reiginited it like a torch - she came along for a very good reason - to teach you about you!

Are you able to commit, for own sake, to posts related more towards deconstructing your childhood and your family of origin (your parents)? The personal inventory board is great for that - and other more senior members can help you. If you do post there I will pop on over!

We need to turn off the 'ex' switch sometimes and see how we arrived at this place to start with. Your healing is not my friend imbedded in whether she kept your stuff or not! Food for thought and the choice at this stage is yours - sometimes we get comfortable on L3 and forget that this is also about our role!

Be kind to you  Your healing is in your hands.
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« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2013, 02:49:14 AM »

Yes! It was probably a set up. My ex is still trying to do stuff like that to make me look like the "crazy one" to get primary custody of our son. It is a common BPD tactic.

The reality of BPD is that they have no core sense of self. "Who" they are is constantly in flux--always changing based on how they feel at a given moment. When they are falling apart in a relationship, they go into victim mode, just like a small child. They "feel" they are a victim, so they start looking for facts to support how they feel. If they can't readily find any, they will twist or fabricate some facts to support their feelings.

When a person points out the inconsistency, they go into attack mode toward the person that can expose them, with a cover of victim to suck other people in. Think about it for a moment, when your BPD ex told you she was a victim of horrible abuse, did you immediately feel sorry for her? Did you immediately trust her? Who would lie about such a thing? She stripped away your instinctual defenses very easily with a few convincincly delivered lies that she truly "felt" at the time. You were sucked right in, because it hit you at a very primal, emotional level. Your empathy kicked in for the "violated child" that was sitting right there in front of you. Unfortunately for us, our emotions overrode our good judgement.

I have known a few people that are genuine adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. (Non-BPD) They tend not to disclose in the manner that BPDs do. They don't disclose deep secrets right away. I firmly believe that many BPDs do believe that they were abused as children, however due to the reality distortions that take place in a BPDs mind, the stories of abuse are greatly exaggerated if not outright fabrications. They can't help it, they are mentally ill. To them the "memories" feel real, so they act as if they are real.

There is a TED talk on domestic violence on one of the other threads, or you can google for TED "Crazy Love". Pay attention to the first part where she describes how abusers hook their victims. If you connect the dots, you will see that pwBPD are not victims, they are abusers.
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« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2013, 04:48:58 AM »

Hi Diana,

Just wanted to say that ou being angry and sad and wanting to understand is normal. There are stages to grieving and we all go through them. Its important not to rush through to the 'get over it' and ' move on' stage before your ready to do that. Dont rush your process because your family or other say its time. If your angry, resentful, sad. Its fine. You need to process these feelings to. Your only 4-5 months out right? It seems invalidating to me to hear your family andbfriends telling you, you should not be feeling the way you areand thatbyou should move on now. You WILL get to this point on your own. I promise you will. But everyones different in how they proccess and how long itbtakes to getbthrough the stages. Were here to support you in your current state and not to rush youb hrough to where we think you should be. Take care.
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« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2013, 09:11:42 PM »

Heres my version of not returning my stuff. I had left a few things behind after I moved out and he stated to me. Leave it here so you have a reason to keep coming back. Thats exactly what it is, a reason to keep you in their life. Even after I moved out and we tried to work things out, I had left a pair of glasses there. I went through the most ridiculous stuff trying to get my glasses back. I told him to put them in his mailbox and I would swing by and grab them. No, that was not good enough. He put them in his truck and told me I had to come to his work and get them. Just another ploy to see me again. Finally, I asked his daughter to please take them out of his truck and I got them from her. Its their way of holding on to some connection with you.
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almost789
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« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2013, 11:07:48 PM »

Come to think of it, mine kept something of mine as well. He actually took it out of my possession and said, you can leave this here... .  and i was like... .  huh? Why do u want me to leave this here? But i just left it with him. It wasnt of any value to me. I forgot about it. He started pushing me away after that. So, many stories of them keeping stuff! Must be for some left over connection or to keep you coming back. Or to try to drive u crazy and call you a stalker when u try to get it back.
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BentNotBroken
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« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2013, 11:55:41 PM »

Come to think of it, mine kept something of mine as well. He actually took it out of my possession and said, you can leave this here... .  and i was like... .  huh? Why do u want me to leave this here? But i just left it with him. It wasnt of any value to me. I forgot about it. He started pushing me away after that. So, many stories of them keeping stuff! Must be for some left over connection or to keep you coming back. Or to try to drive u crazy and call you a stalker when u try to get it back.

I think it is both. My ex insisted that she wanted me & my stuff out, but she made it extremely difficult to get my property. She also kept quite a few things. I finally just gave up trying to retrieve them, because she kept claiming I was harassing her after she told me to come by and get the stuff. A couple of go-arounds of that were enough for me. I wrote it off as a loss.

She can keep the mementos of me, I couldn't care less. I want my son safely out of her reach.
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Diana82
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« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2013, 01:56:54 AM »

Today I saw my ex's car parked outside her flat (main road).

Her place is literally around the corner from mine and I thought she moved. Because I never saw her for 5.5 months... .  anywhere around here. Not in the supermarket... not in cafes etc and she used to frequent them all the time.

It feels so sickening to think she lives around the corner! AND she is not talking to me at all.

It just felt so weird today seeing her car. Knowing she's right there... still...

And won't return the rest of my stuff nor tell me where it's gone/if it's lost...

I wonder if I will run into her in the shops soon... then what! do I ask her about my stuff or give her the cold shoulder? 
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Diana82
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« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2013, 02:26:12 AM »

hmm I don't know if my ex is witholding the stuff...

I actually think she lost it or just doesn't have it.

My issue is that she didn't even ADVISE me what happened to the rest of the stuff.

0 respect. 0 courtesy.

I had to cop an aggressive phone call from her friend telling me he will drop off my 'hair dryer' and my ex is refusing to talk to me etc.

It's just so bizarre to  then see that she's still living around the corner from me. Still existing... and completely ignoring me. Doesn't she ever think she may run into me? we shop at the same gourmet food shops... supermarket... etc.

She was so scared to run into other women she cut off whom she accused of 'stalking' her.

I almost want to now run into her to see what she will do

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Surnia
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« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2013, 02:33:10 AM »

I wonder if I will run into her in the shops soon... then what! do I ask her about my stuff or give her the cold shoulder? 

Run into her would be a great occasion to ask about your stuff. And it would be a great occasion to practice detachment. You are both in a small town, so you cannot avoid to meet someday... .  
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« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2013, 04:01:57 AM »

I am sorry I haven't read the whole thread so my apologies if my response may be somewhat off or if I am repeating what somebody else has already written.

When my pwBPD left dumped me 2 years ago he refused to return my stuff. He refused any contact at all. Others told me to let it go and move on and I was being made to feel that demanding my things from him was just a way for me to hold onto the r/s. It was to begin with but then it became about me, my self respect and refusal to be treated that way. I didn't want for him to control whether I got my things or not. It may seem contradictory but I felt I didn't want him to have anything of me as it represented the control he had had over me in the r/s. And I knew it was way for him to still keep some bond to me, conscious or sub-conscious. It's not as easy as saying that us nons wanting to have our things back from our BPDxs mean we refuse to let go and is a way for us to hang on. Sometimes it can be a way to get our freedom back. It can be instrumental in being able to let go. Only we can know what it represents for us.
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Diana82
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« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2013, 05:57:29 AM »

Wow I can't imagine what she would do if she saw me!

This is a woman who changed her number. Who is acting like she is "scared" of me and had ignored me for 5.5 months.

She'd probably run
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Diana82
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« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2013, 06:00:14 AM »

If I saw her if have A LOT to say!

Who the hell do you think u are?

How dare you not return my stuff and get your friend to abuse me on phone!

Why did u change your number?

Why did you say I am crazy and harassing?

Do you have no shame?

How do you sleep at night?

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« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2013, 06:04:48 AM »

What it is about ? CONTROL , REVENGE . And it works  Please try to move forward without ever having justice met. Your BPD or NPD is not worth spending more energy on, although sadly so many of us continue to do exactly that :'( :'( :'(
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Diana82
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« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2013, 06:20:52 AM »

Mitti> I do wonder if my ex thought me pushing for my stuff was me forcing her to "talk" to me.

My parents even asked me "is this really about the stuff or you trying to talk to her?"

I think I was stunned that she wouldn't even say two words to me about my stuff. I understood she was upset... She didn't want to take me back. She ignored my apologies.

But I guess I was trying to force her to speak to me about my stuff and she didn't budge.

Like a game of punishment.

My mum has even said she'll buy me a new ring. I bought new clothes.

It's more the principle now and the indecency . It's disgraceful
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« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2013, 06:43:34 AM »

Mitti> I do wonder if my ex thought me pushing for my stuff was me forcing her to "talk" to me.

I believe one of the reasons this non-returning of belongings seems so common when breaking up with a pwBPD, is about keeping some bond, sub-consciously, and control on a conscious level. They also need that fight to keep going to prevent guilt from overwhelming them. At least I know this is the case with my pwBPD. For us nons I think the need for having our stuff back, apart from the obvious one, that it may be valuable or we need it, is partly to keep a bond also or have our freedom and our control back.

Yes, it may be that she is wanting to punish you. My bf often punishes me when things get too tricky for him and he is rationalizes in his head that I am too blame and therefore he has the right or need to teach me a lesson. It can be anything so long as it means doing what I don't want or not doing what I want.

To use withheld belongings as a means to be able to talk to them doesn't ever seem to work though. Us continuing to fight them for it seems to only have one of two possible outcomes - we either get our stuff or we don't get it, but it will never lead to re-conciliation, because forcing a pwBPD to do what they don't want never does.
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Diana82
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« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2013, 06:37:33 PM »

Going back to bentnotbroken's comment:

Think about it for a moment, when your BPD ex told you she was a victim of horrible abuse, did you immediately feel sorry for her? Did you immediately trust her? Who would lie about such a thing? She stripped away your instinctual defenses very easily with a few convincincly delivered lies that she truly "felt" at the time. You were sucked right in, because it hit you at a very primal, emotional level. Your empathy kicked in for the "violated child" that was sitting right there in front of you. Unfortunately for us, our emotions overrode our good judgement.

I have known a few people that are genuine adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. (Non-BPD) They tend not to disclose in the manner that BPDs do. They don't disclose deep secrets right away. I firmly believe that many BPDs do believe that they were abused as children, however due to the reality distortions that take place in a BPDs mind, the stories of abuse are greatly exaggerated if not outright fabrications. They can't help it, they are mentally ill. To them the "memories" feel real, so they act as if they are real.


... .  This is interesting. Yes, as soon as my ex opened up to me in the first 3 weeks of dating I felt sorry for her. I was stunned at her stories too... I've dated some shockers but hers topped it off...

She told me "my first ex was completely frigid... never wanted to sleep with me.  She was cold and distant... shed make me feel really unattractive and unloved. She would even leave my bedside to go and masturbate in the bathroom!  We had to go to couples counselling. Then she dumped me over text message one day saying the only reason she was "frigid" was because she was thinking of another woman the whole time! And this was over text!  I was depressed for days... couldn't get out of bed"

Then she told me about the second woman she started seeing who lived interstate and she told me "she was an emotional bully/abusive. She used to tell me she saw me as a child and felt too " maternal" with me. She would degrade me physically and emotionally  and say I have no idea about sex and the female anatomy. She also told me she doesn't like " pale" women and I'm pale! She'd intimidate me... bully me... .  "

Then she told me about a woman she briefly dated who had tried to "grope" her in public all the time and she felt violated.

She shortly after told me I was the only woman who had made her orgasm. And that she was waiting for her "princess".

Of course I felt good at that point. I wanted to save her. But I still found it odd how much horrible stuff she had put up with. And odd how open she was about it so early on ... .  




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Diana82
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« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2013, 06:53:26 PM »

So can you understand my confusion when my ex told me after an argument 2.7 years later (in reference to the same frigid ex) this... .  

Her: "my ex tried to force herself on me one day. She pushed me onto the bed and tried to rape me. But I won't go into details... I don't think you want to know"

Me: "whaat? Really? Tell me... Talk to me... "

Her: (started to cry a little) "I don't think you want to know (hesitating)... but she tried to force herself onto me and pushed me down. I didn't feel like sex for a long time after that. I also went to counselling"

Me: (a bit later) "so you went to couples counselling yes?"

Her: "no not couples counselling. I went alone"

I immediately felt sorry for her... and thought this is why her libido must be low... she has endured trauma!

I instantly forgot the argument (and how rude she was) and didn't even bother asking for an apology from her then- she had almost been raped! How could I think of the silly argument and myself right now! :/

But see how different the story was to the original one?

And part of our argument involved her snapping at me and not wanting sex for 3 weeks and being rude about it. I got snappy back and started to leave her house because she was so rude. Then she had a panic attack and out came that almost rape story
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myself
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3151


« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2013, 07:52:49 PM »

Diana, with all due respect:

It seems like she ended up with your stuff and you ended up with her stories.

What about You? How can You move on from this?

What's the story of your own life?

Is there more to it, and more to write, or just this chapter?

What has been working as far as your own healing? There have been many great suggestions offered for you. Information, support, advice... .  

How are you going to help yourself get over who/what/how she was, to better understand who/what/how YOU are, now? Plus: A better future for yourself, too?

What is it that you're really looking for? To understand... .  ?

Someone hurting you is horrible. I'm very sorry you've gone through that. It's in the past, though, and you have this chance to overcome it, grow from it, and live a healthier life. With better more 'real' friends than those who've wronged you before this.

There comes a time when letting go of something that has caused us harm, including someone we felt close with (even though in many ways we're 'comfortable' with it, being used to it), just has to happen or we decay more than grow. We can turn what they did to us against our own selves, perpetuating those pains and making them worse.

Please don't do that. Focus on what's best for You. Peace.

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Diana82
Also "ZaraP"
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 607


« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2013, 11:05:58 PM »

I'm interested to learn more about the 'quiet borderline' or the silent treatment some of us get when a BPD person dumps us.

My ex was always a very direct, assertive snappy type. So the silence has been out of character.

The inability to say one word to me about my stuff... doesn't seem like her. Perhaps two personalities going on here...

this is why it's weird.  If she had given me the silent treatment during the rship, i wouldn't think this is so strange. But she wasn't anything like that. I was the quieter one

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