My ex knows he can't accept love- it helps, might help you

[maria1]

Hi all

I don't post much on here these days. I have some contact with my ex who has BPD traits. We split last May after a 10 month r/s. I was NC for 3 months but am ok with some minimal contact now. I have my boundaries better defined and he works hard to respect them. I respect his effort.

He emailed me the other day  after not hearing from him since before Christmas. Just hi- hope you're OK, it's cold.

I have been going through a r/s break up with someone who accused me of pushing him away and I was finding it very hard to really confront the stuff in my new r/s that was upsetting me. It got me thinking. I never confronted stuff properly with BPDex; I am not good at doing it in intimate relationships.

I emailed and asked my BPDex why he had ended our r/s. Yes I know I took a risk and I know I could have got any number of different answers. But I needed something from him, and he gave it to me. At the time of the split the reason kept changing and he was seeing someone else anyway. I want to share with you what he replied now because it helps me and I think it may help some of you. My ex doesn't understand BPD but he does understand that he cannot let love too close. I include my question:

Me:

Hiya

You said once I could ask you anything so... .  

Why did you end our relationship?

Was it something I did or didn't do?

I don't ask to try and fix you and me-I know we are way past that. I'm asking because I am trying to fix myself and I never really asked you why. I mean, I did at the time but the answer you gave kept changing then and you were with (replacement's name) anyway.

Hope you're doing ok.

Him:

Because you loved me. It's that simple. You loved me, so I pushed you away. When I was with you, everything was perfect. The whole fit was just perfect between you & me. You were beautiful, you looked after me, we had the same interests, the sex was fantastic, I loved your kids. It's classic behaviour. It's like I had to treat you like ~, otherwise you wouldn't walk away. That (replacement's name) thing was a total disaster! But hey, better to have loved & lost... .  

That's the total honest truth. Hope it helps



It's what I've always known and why I have resisted recycles but managed to accept him as he is and move on in my healing (still getting there, working on me). I know he can never love me properly because of his inability to let people close. He told me right from the start he pushes people he loves away. He used to describe me as the last one standing. Even as he left me to be with replacement it looked like it was killing him to hurt me.

His admission is quite unBPD like. His description of pushing away the intimacy describes exactly an attachment disorder.

Poor man. Don't worry- I'll never go back but compassion and understanding help us both.

[HarmKrakow]

Man almighty, if I would ask someone why did you leave me? And I would get an answer like that I would have a wire dysfunctioning in my head  . As i really don't understand those attachment issues, especially when the person in question clearly knows where the problem lies. It makes me 

Total respect for you maria

[Whatwasthat]

Hi Maria 

It's very good to 'see' you again! It's a very long time since we last 'talked'.

I just wanted to say that it's great that both you and your ex have got to the point of being able to communicate in this way. It sounds very honest and freeing.

I'm so pleased it's helped you - and  it may have helped him too as there's certainly a great deal of consolation to be found in facing the truth of a situation - however difficult it is.

And yes - I think it will be of great help to others here - it's another reminder of the reality of how tough it is to overcome conditions that create emotional unavailability- however much someone may wish to do this.

Sending best wishes. WWT

[maria1]

Thanks Hamkrakow and Whatwasthat 

The big step for me was in asking a direct question honestly without anticipating his reply. Without stopping myself for fear of being judged or because my own needs can't come first. So I asked; it felt physically uncomfortable to do so but I did it! I must emphasise I do this on the back of around 4 months of him respecting my wishes and leaving me be on the whole. I didn't chase him to do it and took an opportunity when he contacted me. It was a risk.

My own emotional unavailability didn't help and doesn't help me in relationships. I can only work on me now. It's nice to feel that ex with BPD traits (or not!) and I are in a place of acceptance although I cannot pretend I am absolutely confident that can last. We had something special but we can't have it now, like looking back on any 'normal' r/s break up.

Thanks for the supportive words you two. x

[Whatwasthat]

The big step for me was in asking a direct question honestly without anticipating his reply. Without stopping myself for fear of being judged or because my own needs can't come first. So I asked; it felt physically uncomfortable to do so but I did it!

That's great! That's what I'm aiming at too - living life in a simpler, stronger way that means I know what I need to do for me - and I then simply do it!

Sounds simple - but my goodness it isn't is it? Certainly not in my case where I seem to have so many layers of restraint that tell me it's not safe, polite or wise to act in that way.

It sounds like the therapy is working!

[maria1]

Not having therapy yet but I did have an assessment the other day. I am therapy-ing me and this place is therapy-ing me! Also recent r/s really helped as we explored our own codependency stuff together. When it came to it we couldn't really get though it in each other though!

[HardTruth]

Hi Maria,

Thanks for posting that.  It was an act of compassion for him to share that with you, and not very BPD-like.  It's sad that someone can recognize that and not want to do something about it.  That is mind-boggling. 

There was a guy a dated a few years ago that I look back on now and think he was N/BPD.  The whole BPD-style relationship ensued, in 2-4 week cycles. With him initiating each one.  In the course if 4 months, we only dated for 2 months because he broke up with me 3 times, each the night before we were supposed to spend the night together for the first time.  (We were already physically intimate, but had never stayed over at each other's houses).  Anyway, each time he broke up with me, it was a different reason - "you're too much of  a single girl, and I'm a single dad"... etc etc - when he's a way bigger partier than I am!  I don't even drink alcohol, and can barely stay up past 10pm!  "You're hurting my daughter by being around her"  Umm, huh?  (She adores me, btw!)

Anyways, finally at the last break-up, where he let me know, yet again, that "there is just something missing", as we talked he said that in the last 12 years, the longest relationship he'd had was 3-4 months.  Wow!  He was married for 5 years in his 20's.  If I had known the 3-4 month thing, it would have given me a lot more perspective on the previous break-ups - I wouldn't have taken them so hard or so personally.  Actually, with that kind of history, I probably wouldn't even have dated him!

He also said that what happens for him is that he starts to feel really anxious.  And then he identifies me (or whoever else he's dating), as the cause.  The anxiety is so uncomfortable, that he must do something to stop it.  Thus the break-up.  Once it happens, he feels an immediate sense of relief.

Then, after a couple weeks or months passes, especially if you were a good fit (like he and I were), he misses them, feels lonely, and wants to "give it another shot".  But always with the same result.  "I tried, but you're just not right for me".  "Something's missing". 

He is now in his early 40's and nothing's changed!  He's on internet dating saying how he really wants a long term monogamous relationship (and he's SO poly!), and that he's really stable and emotionally mature... .    Egads!  Watch out, women!

[maria1]

Hi Hardtruth

My ex had had only THREE long term relationships when I met him 18 months ago. Two of 13 years and one of 3 years. His marriage lasted 13 years and was mid divorce when I met him.

BUT he always seemed to be involved with other women in some way. I don't know whether he was unfaithful and he swears he never was with me or in any of his r/s. I could see him lining up women when he and I had periods of closeness. He'd have this little friendship thing and then it would all end in tears. He would be constantly comparing me to them (favorably always). I never really took the bait.

Anyway I'm saying that my ex looked like such a great catch in terms of his relationship history. And when he met my replacement he refused to tell her we had ever been a couple. I found it strange he didn't just lie to me about that actually! I broke contact in the end partly because I hated seeing him lie somebody into the relationship. He said at the time- it's OK I won't ever hurt her.

So yes- it's very, very positive that he can do this now but just a little of the madness of the past to give some context!

Mine is on dating websites too- he has women all over him. He has an amazing way with words!

[myself]

Maria, that's incredible that he replied that way, it seems honest of him and can help you make some better sense of this. Hard to believe in some ways but seems pretty sincere. My ex said all that good stuff, too, but never once that it was why she couldn't be with me. Not sure she even admits it to herself. I've seen how being too close would flip her switches, though. That actually loving the lover you are in love with would be the reason for the relationship to end is something so many of us here have had to face.

Hearing it said this way, stated as the actual reason, is like a slap in the face with both a very painful reality, for all involved, and an open doorway to more fully understanding what goes on in the minds of those who have gone through this with us.

Thanks for sharing such a personal experience. It brings tears to my eyes, helping me detach a bit more, and also due to having to detach at all, and why. 'We were close'.

[maria1]

Hi myself- I'm glad that people feel positive about me sharing it. It's interesting and hard that it feels like a painful slap in the face with reality

Because this is what it comes down to isn't it? The terrible paradox of desperately wanting us close but having to fight it away with any weapons they can. It's a fight for survival.

Another time my ex ended it and said 'it was all too intense. I had to get out from under it and breathe some air'. I later used a similar analogy before I knew anything about BPD. I said you can't keep pulling me right in close like a great big comfort blanket and then just throw me off when it's too much.'

We both felt it, we both knew although we knew nothing about BPD. I really did love him and i believe he loved me. I'm so sorry for your pain myself. I really do think we have to accept the impossibility of the disorder before we can truly detach and move forward. And it's a horrible, horrible truth to face   

[Elsegundo]

Mine had what I call "moments of lucid sharing" too.  Always after, too late for repair., but sharing and clarity came in random chunks.  Quite a gift.

She once talked about how much she wanted to be w me but that she was miserable bc she couldn't handle it.  And later, when we tried to be friends, she would make and break plans, and once said it was bc she would get overwhelmed when it came time to follow through, that seeing me was triggering even though she also really wanted to. 

Glad you had that moment w/ your ex.  Thanks for sharing it with all of us.

[Whatwasthat]

Not having therapy yet but I did have an assessment the other day. I am therapy-ing me and this place is therapy-ing me! Also recent r/s really helped as we explored our own codependency stuff together. When it came to it we couldn't really get though it in each other though!

It's really heartening that it's possible to make such progress with the 'self therapy' route. That's the path I'm going down myself at the moment - but it's very exciting too that you're moving into 'official' therapy.

It's sad that your latest r/s didn't work out - but from what you've said it seems that the whole experience was broadly positive - part of moving forwards and getting further with the self exploration.

Thanks for flying the flag for progress Maria!

[maria1]

I had some CBT which wasn't good- the therapist was late each time, didn't send me the CBT info she was going to after the first session so we never started the CBT work. On the 4th session she spent half of it telling me what I should do in response to a problem I was having where my children's father's girlfriend had used the word 'prostitute' about one my daughter's friends. My kids dad's girlfriend is the learning mentor at their school so it's a really tricky situation.

Anyway... .  the therapist proceeded to tell me about how she doesn't swear or use inappropriate language in front of her kids and that I 'should' make an appointment to go into the school and tell the woman not to use that sort of language in front of my children. 'I really think that is what you should do Maria1'.

I didn't go back. The point I'm making is that therapy isn't all good and there are some rubbish therapists out there. I found it difficult not to go back because this woman was so nice and supportive mostly but it isn't what I need. What I need is to know why I am attracted to a man who is incapable, (utterly incapable as his email shows) of loving me back! He told me right from the start he would push me away. He was abusive to his ex wife during our r/s and yet I refused to see that and waited for the day it would all get better. Actually I think I have worked out the whys due to my FOO stuff but what I do now in order to rebuild on healthy I have no idea!

The therapy I am now waiting for (long waiting list) is psycho-dynamic therapy where my relationship patterns are pulled apart based on the idea that we are all subconsciously repeating the FOO stuff. Because the responses and patterns are subconscious I don't think it's possible to do this work without a therapist and it's vital the therapist knows what they are doing. BUT I'll know more on the other side and that might be years away!

Good luck to you with it- I do feel better and on the start of a positive road and it sounds like you are too. None of it is easy is it? !   Thank you for your positive words x

[Maryiscontrary]

I would recommend Pete gerlach. He is retired and cousels by Skype. And is very reasonable on his rates. Sliding scale.

The man is brilliant. He has this enormous website that is all non profit educational, plus many YouTube videos. He is a top notch trauma guy. He is a hero.

Do google him and look over his stuff.

[123Phoebe]

Hi Maria

One of the things that popped out at me with your description of the CBT therapist, is where is your assertiveness?  Rather than confront the issues that were bothering you in a controlled, respectful manner, you chose to quit therapy with her - avoid the confrontation.  Not saying it was wrong or right, just an observation.

And I can understand how being told you 'should' do something, can feel pretty controlling and kinda out there.  But again I'm wondering, if the situation with the learning mentor girlfriend of your kid's dad is a creating a problem/concern for you, enough of a problem to want to discuss it with a CBT therapist, what options do you have to confront the problem assertively, rather that just talking about it?  Or listening to the therapist talk about it for half a session.

These are similar issues that I've had to confront within myself, deep FOO issues where I was afraid to speak out for fear of retalliation or something, not worth the effort... .    I would talk to everyone else EXCEPT the person I was having the issue with.  And when I would muster up the nerve to talk, it was done with such trepidation and unsuredness, even if I was bellowing it out   The fact that I was bellowing it out, proved that I wasn't in control of my emotions.

As far as wondering why you are attracted to a man incapable of loving you back - Is he a reflection of yourself?  Are you capable of loving yourself, yet?  Loving yourself enough to stand up for what you believe in, in a loving gracious and respectful way towards others also?  With no blame or shame, second guessing and all the rest?  Acceptance with no fears?

Welcome back!

[maria1]

Hi Phoebe  

Well I did tell her why I wasn't going to do that and that it would result in repercussions for my daughter that would be too difficult for her. The point is her values spun into the session- she totally went for it. She was triggered by my story.

There was no point in going back. I talked about it at my recent assessment and what she said was interesting. She said you weren't getting a good service, she was more surprised I lasted 4 sessions.

My assertiveness comes and goes. I choose my battles. What would I have achieved by battling on with a therapist who wasn't delivering? I decided it wasn't worth it. I made a decision to bow out rather than confront yes but there was nothing to be gained from confronting.

BUT yes there are deep issues within me about confronting real stuff- it's not the stuff with the therapist that affects me. It's the stuff with people I'm close too that has a greater impact and that I need to work on. I recently confronted some issues I was having in a new r/s and it resulted in the r/s ending. I realised I was shying away from things and blaming things on me instead of saying straight up what was the problem. That was a huge step!

There's lots in what you say Phoebe but it's not as easy as to say Oh Yes that's the answer- I can't love myself! I'm working on and exploring all these things. We all have our different ways of getting there. We aren't all the same and our roads to get to the place we want to be are all slightly different although we meet at many points along the way.

[HardTruth]

MaryisContrary - thanks for the referral to Pete Gerlach!  I checked out his website and one of his videos.  He seems great.  I'm looking forward to going through the info he provides in more detail.

Maria - yeah, I wouldn't have gone back to that therapist either.  She wouldn't have been a good fit for me.  I definitely believe in addressing the FOO issues by addressing the subconscious somehow.  I absolutely believe it's helpful to have a good guide.  My T pushes me in ways I could never do by myself.  We don't always agree, but it's OK.  Loving yourself is definitely an underlying theme, but you have to find the wounds and reset them/heal them.  I started counseling 9 years ago, took a 3 year break in the middle, and am still working on it

I think you're on the right track - why am I attracted to these men?... etc... .  My therapist said the same thing to me when I first started counseling with her.  My answer, was, Bad Luck! ha ha... .  now I see it was so much more than that , and we started unraveling the emotional patterns and beliefs that I held inside.

If someone asked me, Do you think you're a good person?  I would say, unequivocally, Yes!  But in counseling what I realized is that I hold a LOT of shame.  There isn't even an incident or action that I remember that I feel bad about.  I had no conscious insight into this deep-seated feeling that I had.  When it came out in therapy, it was SUCH A TRIP!  It has been a process accessing that shame, releasing it, and filling that empty spot with something else.

I think that is why I am attracted to, and draw men who have similar issues. 

I think I have also attracted healthy men, but was not able to be with them in the past or didn't recognize them.

Even in the first 6 months of therapy, it was pretty profound to me.  Good luck to you 

[HardTruth]

Oh, I read on a website a while ago that when a parent(s) neglect a child, physically or emotionally abandons them - even without any verbal abuse or physical abuse - the child takes that on him or herself and interprets the cause of that neglect as, I'm Bad, I'm Unworthy.  Thus, they feel and experience shame.  

Their parent could be telling them, you're so good in school!  or whatever (I'm 1/2 asian so school is a big deal!), but if they are emotionally or physically absent, or don't validate you emotionally, or are cold sometimes and warm sometimes... .  it's not the words that get in as much as the actions.  

[maria1]

Yes HT I do think there is shame in there. I don't remember getting any praise for anything! I got money for passing my gcses at 16 but praise? I used to act in the plays my father directed and he never once told me I was good- he would even cast me in lead parts sometimes but he just couldn't praise me. Why the hell not? Because he never learned it himself probably.

Now, as a parent, if my daughter does something good I praise her because I want to; it's natural, if she tries her best I praise her. I notice how pretty she looks and the ice stuff she does for her brother and me and I tell her and I love her so I tell her! I don't understand how our parents didn't feel those things and act upon them.

Different times I suppose, different world.

[123Phoebe]

My assertiveness comes and goes. I choose my battles. What would I have achieved by battling on with a therapist who wasn't delivering? I decided it wasn't worth it. I made a decision to bow out rather than confront yes but there was nothing to be gained from confronting.

Hi Maria, I think that maybe we're misunderstanding each other here, and that's okay.  What I meant by the assertiveness observation, was the opposite of battling with the therapist.  I was referring to more of an open approach, I guess.  Just saying something simple like, 'I don't really want to discuss this issue anymore, I'll figure it out, thanks'.

You were there, I wasn't.  I'm glad you were validated at your recent assessment.

It's good that you were able to recognize that the therapist and your latest r/s weren't a good fit for you in short order.  And yes, our roads are all different... .    I didn't mean any offense.

[maria1]

Hi Phoebe- no, my apologies I didn't mean to take offense- I just meant I chose not to challenge her because I could see no point in doing so. I didn't post about it at the time because I didn't feel I needed advice on it. I was clear about what I wanted to do which was give up because it was the last straw.

And my point about us taking different roads is that the way you describe where you think I should be is different to where I think I should be, just because we are different people. Your point about my lack of assertiveness is totally valid- I just wasn't asking for help on that one right now.

I hope that is all OK to say because your input is always valuable to me x

[HardTruth]

I just wanted to add one more thing in the "loving yourself" train of thought.  Yes, I thought I loved myself, but...

In the past my bottom line was, Would I rather be with him or alone?  Sure there's some problems, but maybe I'll stay a little longer and keep trying to work on them... .  you can't have everything perfect, right?... .  

Finally last year, I'd just had enough of lameness!  I realized I was doing the above, and raised my "bottom line" to actions which make me feel valued, cared for and loved.  The guy I was dating at the time wasn't very good at calling me back, and so grouchy about it!  He lives far away, and I had only asked for 1 hour a week when we were apart - 1 30 and 1 20min phone call, and 10 minutes of texting.  Pretty minimal and reasonable!  He couldn't do it, so I broke up with him.

I finally "loved" myself enough to expect that of him, and not put up with all the excuses.  I also expect the person that I'm dating to do what they say they're going to do 95% of the time.  My exBPD (different guy) didn't do this, so even if he tried to recycled me, he'd be off the list.

[maria1]

Hard truth - I think I'm ok with the being alone stuff. I've managed to end relationships quite a few times although its a struggle if they aren't really doing my head in. I think I need to hit rock bottom a bit in the r/s to convince myself I'm sure although again that's getting easier as I get older. I started to suspect this r/s wasn't right for me but still wasn't sure. I still really liked him and was attracted to him. But little things that irritated slightly were becoming slightly more irritating. His measured and controlled way of living which appealed in some ways started to feel 'false'. That also felt unfair on him though. I was worried I was actually devaluing him.

I knew I'd miss him but I was more worried about hurting him. He even said to me right at the start that he was scared of getting hurt. I told him then I couldn't promise not to do that and that I had a lot of difficult stuff to manage in my life. I said he neede to think carefully about whether I was worth that risk. He said he would take that risk and if he got hurt he would lick his wounds and carry on.

BPDex was a different matter altogether of course but I was just beginning to feel like I'd lost myself too much in his needs and I remember wondering why I kept ending up in relationships where I concentrated so much on the mans needs I neglected my own. Maybe it was the start of me regrouping I don't know. I felt low and I said so to BPDex, said I felt like I was neglecting my house. He dumped me within 24 hours.

Good for you with the one hour communication guy! It sounds like you have made a lot of progress and done a lot of work!

Thanks for your support and comments hard truth 

[Phoenix.Rising]

  Maria,  It's nice to read a post from you.  I'd say your ex is more insightful than most.  I was just thinking about how we trigger them; intimacy is the trigger.  It's a shame that I don't hear more about pwBPD deciding to work on their issues.  My ex made many comments to me along the way:  I can't give you what you want/need.  I have a pattern of breaking up with men.  I'm not good for you, etc.  She was warning me in her own way.   

I'm now at a place where my issues are front and center.  Why did I attract this woman in the first place?  Why did I keep going back for more pain?  I already know many of the answers, but the hard work is in applying the solutions!  You've made great strides!  Keep on keeping on.