Distorted reality rather than calculated deception?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm really interested in the subject of distorted reality/perceptions.

I've been terribly bothered by my ex's warped perception of me... referring to me as a 'harasser'.

I'm also disturbed at how she has lied and exaggerated abuse/assault/stalking with such conviction.  I found it deceptive.

Sometimes it feels like my ex believed her distorted perceptions of reality. I can't believe she would have been that good an actress      And perhaps her stories and such do not fall under 'calculated deception'.

I told my ex she was too inconsistent and implied she could be deceptive.  She cracked it at me and dumped me soon after... she looked so hurt by this. It literally looked as if I had said I wanted to kill her or something. 

Perhaps BPDs are unaware of their own deception because they have such a distorted view of reality?  They DO feel 'harassed' and they DO feel 'threatened' by others. They may even think someone has abused them or tried to rape them. 

So any suggestion that they are deceptive is seen as SO far fetched to them and insulting...

In my ex's words I "burnt her" by saying she was inconsistent and deceptive.

thoughts?

[Diana82]

I'm really interested in the subject of distorted reality/perceptions.

I've been terribly bothered by my ex's warped perception of me... referring to me as a 'harasser'.

I'm also disturbed at how she has lied and exaggerated abuse/assault/stalking with such conviction.  I found it deceptive.

Sometimes it feels like my ex believed her distorted perceptions of reality. I can't believe she would have been that good an actress      And perhaps her stories and such do not fall under 'calculated deception'.

I told my ex she was too inconsistent and implied she could be deceptive.  She cracked it at me and dumped me soon after... she looked so hurt by this. It literally looked as if I had said I wanted to kill her or something. 

Perhaps BPDs are unaware of their own deception because they have such a distorted view of reality?  They DO feel 'harassed' and they DO feel 'threatened' by others. They may even think someone has abused them or tried to rape them. 

So any suggestion that they are deceptive is seen as SO far fetched to them and insulting...

In my ex's words I "burnt her" by saying she was inconsistent and deceptive.

thoughts?

[Rusted Rail]

This is a great topic.  The last two episodes with my pregnant uBPD exgf have me leaning toward your theory. 

The first was her perception that I was hitting on another pregnant woman at the doctor's office.  It took a good five minutes to figure out who she was even accusing me of hitting on.  The last episode involved her actually perceiving my size 11.5 men's orange running shoes as being 'her pink shoes' in my entryway.  This giving her 'proof' that I was cheating on her.  Of course, stepping inside the house rather than storming off and driving away would have proven her accusations wrong.

I really am leaning toward a distorted reality being at play here.  It seems the emotions they are feeling will find their own reality one way or another.

This realization has allowed me to take a lot of pressure off myself, realizing anything I try to do would never be enough when their perception is so malleable and out of sync with what is actually happening around them at certain times.   

[GustheDog]

Yes, controlling for the presence other PDs (like NPD), BPDs aren't making up the things they say.  When my ex told me how terribly she felt I'd treated her and how controlling she thinks/thought I was, this was not a fabrication.  Her hurt was real, and intense.

It's a thought *disorder*. 

Perhaps at some future point they look back and realize to some extent that the way they felt wasn't really based on reality.  Or perhaps not.  Either way, they've already conducted their smear campaign so they need to stand by their original story.

[Surnia]

For many people with BPD FEELINGS are FACTS. So if she feels harassed or abused, it is so. It is their perception.

This is not easy to understand or deal with. Most of us have a different approach toward our feelings. I am most of the time very rational. Too rational in fact.

[Diana82]

Ahhh... it's all so warped 

I feel as if I've been in this spin of her altered reality... .  the entire time...

and because things didn't add up for me... I was punished.

Because I didn't understand her... I was punished.

And because I questioned her character in the end... .  I was severely punished and wiped off forever.

[Diana82]

I'd like to learn how to detect their distorted reality/perceptions earlier on...

I'm very slow on the mark, by the way. The gullible empathetic type.

My sister is so different to me and can pick up instantly if someone is lying or something is a bit 'off'. I tend to comfort people or listen to them "in the moment" and later I stew on it. Think about it... brush it off... think about it again later... fester and fester and rot.

And then it hits me- HANG ON... IS SHE LYING TO ME? I THINK SO.

And then my gut is right about them... but my gut instinct is so delayed...

In the case with my ex... it took almost 3 years? 

[almost789]

They have built a false self. This is who they believe they are. When you chip away at their false self by calling them out on their inconsistencies, they have a primitive defense that kicks in. You have just attacked them! In their mind. Remember, black and white thinking. They can not understand that you see some issues of theirs but would still want to be with them. You found a flaw and so now you must hate them. Shame. They leave. Purely as a defense to protect their false sense of self. Remember how offended she was that u thought she was deceptive. She doesnt think so, shes the most honest person she said. Mine told me, believe whatever you want! I was always honest and true! He most certainly was not and he knew it, but would not face it.

[Surnia]

And because I questioned her character in the end... .  I was severely punished and wiped off forever.

Yep. This is a second common problem: Enmeshment.

In healthy relationships you can also express doubts about your partner (in a respectful manner). This is perhaps painful but is not the end of the rs. In enmeshed, unhealthy rs you get punished for this. In your case, she finished the rs.

I would recommend you to read this article The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships and explore your last 2 relationships in comparison with the article.

[Diana82]

Thanks Surnia... I'll read more into this...

I do also think my ex would use her distorted reality to her advantage though... The whole victim thing. Deflection I think?

If I was upset with her she'd cry or attempt to divert my focus by telling me about her pains or personal struggles. This always worked on me

[Surnia]

I do also think my ex would use her distorted reality to her advantage though... The whole victim thing. Deflection I think?

Perhaps, perhaps not. This goes into interpretation, speculation. I would rather stay with observations. She saw herself as a victim and you became the rescuer.

[Diana82]

Lifegoeson >

How was your ex dishonest?

I didn't even say my ex was "deceptive"... Just implied she could be because of her dramatic shifts in actions/stories/opinions. She was the one who focused on  this word and kept saying "you're saying i am deceptive!"

[Diana82]

Surnia... What's the difference between engulfment and enmeshment?

I do agree that normally you should be able to confront your partner.

If you are unhappy about their behaviour in some way or their behaviour confuses you... or you feel insecure- you should be able to voice this.

My ex would express jealousy and insecurity so directly to me... she'd cry and say her heart was pounding at the thought of me even catching up with a friend i once went on a date with  years ago (for example).

Then later told me I make her feel like a liability in the relationship. All this insecure stuff...

If I ever expressed jealousy or insecurity- I'd either be scolded or she'd play this victim and seem like everything was too hard... my feelings were just TOO unreasonable and she couldn't deal with the drama.

I had to deal with her drama though.

She'd also be quite critical of others... but so hypersensitive. So it's like she could dish it out but not take it.

So yes in the end- I expressed my suspicions and got dumped

[spaceace]

I am ruminating over this today about my wife. I cannot believe how she kept throwing out there I am abusive.

I think what happened in my relationship was this. She would say things I knew were not true. In order to avoid a dreadful fight, I would not argue her points. I would look for solutions to the problem she was having with me. Regardless of the truth of the matter. It mattered more to me that she felt safe and seen by me. That was ultimately what she always wanted. To be safe and seen.

The problem for me now, I did that so much, that I am afraid of my own perception of things now. I know internally what the truth is, but I start to doubt myself. AND that is what I believe the BPD person does to us. We lose touch with our own reality and start to question ourselves when we are painted black and they leave us. Once we are all alone, we question ourselves. At least that is what I have been doing.

I believe doing this is at the root of our problem with detaching from the BPD. I have thought about this a lot as of late.

Even though we know our truth about the issues, we question ourselves and wonder, is there some truth to what they accuse us of? And if there is, maybe if my wife would take me back, I can change!

But honestly, I know that really isn't the truth. All I have to do is look back at why she left me. There was never a reason. She just went NC one day. Then over the next weeks, I threw out all sorts of questions begging for an explanation. When she would respond to my begging, imploring, wanting to understand, sporadically, she would throw out some nonsense about a fight we had 4 years ago as the reason why she had to leave me now.

The thing is, 4 years ago, the issue she had, I made adjustments, as all relationships normally do, to that behavior and did not repeat it. Yet, for her, the issue is alive and well. How is that possible? It is because that is all she really has to deal with her disconnect from me.

She has to have some sort of issue with me. Her actions and behavior will never be brought to light. I see this now. It is hard to accept, and I am still wanting to connect and make her see the light and error of her ways, but I really know, I cannot.

So, the more I internalize these emotions, the more I stay connected. This is what I think we all have problems with and why we have such a difficult time disconnecting from the BPD person. At least that is my theory.

[Changed4safety]

It is sobering to let oneself fully realize what a crazy "funhouse" these people live in.  Of 3 therapists I have gone to, while all of them have urged me to get out of the relationship for my own survival, not one of them believes that my exBPDbf was playing me for a fool and laughing at me behind my back, despite all the things he did and said to me.  I realize that this truly was his reality.  Mine was stuck in the victim mode, still is (to a lesser extent since I moved out... .  evidence to those of you wondering, mine at least thrived in many genuinely positive ways without me to "rescue" him all the time).  He looked for things to keep him there, to prove his reality.  He likes to think of himself as a 'scientist" so I would show him logical evidence... .  he could not deal with his reality being warped.

And I could not live in the funhouse, where everything could change at a moment's notice, and he was the only one who knew what had changed and how. 

[SarahinMA]

I was just about to post a question somewhat related to this topic.  My ex broke up with me... .  He told me that he didn't feel the spark anymore: which I took as a normal, albeit immature reason to break up.  So I went no contact, deleted him from facebook, and told him to stop contacting me because I needed to heal. 

It almost seems like that my actions after the breakup (because I never begged for him back) distorted his perception (I abandoned him... .  he was testing me).  He joked with another friend while I was standing there (months after the breakup) that I broke up with him!  The few times I tried to reach out to him via email, he seemed EXTREMELY angry.  He never ignored me, just angry, blaming me and playing the victim. 

[lost not dead]

Spaceace stay out of my head.

     I read your post and it is scary. I can only say ditto because you wrote my relationship.

[almost789]

Diana,

I had caught him in a lot of lies some of it was just stupid stuff. Not even any reason to lie. Like you, differing stories, after a few inconsistencies I too questioned. "But I thought you said... .  whatever". Then he'd back pedal get nervous. I would drop it because the looks on his face was pure fear. Of course after it started getting so bad, I just called him a liar! He was lying to me and then blaming me, saying I was paranoid, crazy... .  classic case of deflection and projection. And so, I was split shortly after that. Oh well, I mean if one can't be honest, then whats the point.

[Diana82]

Did any of you 'test' your ex at any point to check their stories, to see if you were not going mad?

Yet you STILL felt crazy and were made to feel crazy and too suspicious by your ex?

As my ex so nicely said to me "you need help! you were burnt by your ex and have ISSUES".

I knew it had got to a bad stage when I had to prove to myself she was inconsistent... .  I had no proof that her abuse stories were lies (only a strong suspicion) so I relied on her behaviour/actions/opinions that tended to shift dramatically.

[Diana82]

I think I need to explore this with my therapist... what is it about ME that so easily got fooled by her stories of abuse?

Is it that my rescuing tendencies override my good judgement?



Do I put my own needs (ie an apology for her poor behaviour) on hold because of HER 'pain'?

She used these sob stories to defuse my anger.

So that one time when I was angry at her for being rude to me and I tried to storm off as I didn't want to stay over at her house...

She had a "panic attack". This could have been feigned.  And next day completely made things all about her and her 'horrible night' and then told me she was 'almost raped' by her ex... .  most likely to defuse my anger.

How could I then continue to be angry at her after being told THAT?  My rescuing tendencies completely took over.

It's as if nothing else mattered at that point... something happened in my head when she told me that story. I felt so sorry for her... I felt I needed to be 'more compassionate'. I ended up taking her out for the day... buying her flowers... feeling sorry I even tried to storm off after her rudeness.

I did not get an apology for her rudeness.

[Omniverse]

I think I need to explore this with my therapist... what is it about ME that so easily got fooled by her stories of abuse?

Please don't be so hard on yourself. To feel empathy for someone is a gift. But like everything in this world, it can either be appreciated or be taken advantage of. So in your case, your empathy was preyed upon. Some call it the 'rescuer' tendencies or 'martyr syndrome' - in overdose this is bad. This is merely my opinion.

Do I put my own needs (ie an apology for her poor behaviour) on hold because of HER 'pain'?

Some point in time, I reckon most of us here identify with this. The need to see your significant one, happy and at peace outweighs the immediate need to seek an apology and a commitment to rectify the wrong behaviour.

She had a "panic attack". This could have been feigned.  And next day completely made things all about her and her 'horrible night' and then told me she was 'almost raped' by her ex... .  most likely to defuse my anger.

If I am not mistaken, this is deflection. It's like catching a kid stealing from a candy-store; and in order to 'correct' this wrong they deflect it onto you citing that there were hungry or someone else made them do it, etc. Its a base level primitive way defense mechanism. Deep within I suspect BPDs feel shame, but dont have the mental maturity to come out clean and acknowledge the wrong. Simply deflecting it onto others is far easier than explaining the inner chaos within them.

It's as if nothing else mattered at that point... something happened in my head when she told me that story. I felt so sorry for her... I felt I needed to be 'more compassionate'. I ended up taking her out for the day... buying her flowers... feeling sorry I even tried to storm off after her rudeness.

I did not get an apology for her rudeness.

Let's say if you had no idea what BPD is, wouldnt you call the above 'manipulation'. Like eating the cake and having the table as well. BPDs are master manipulators, often to the point they don't even realise they are doing this. To them the goal is to be perceived as being clean at any cost, whilst using projection and/or deflection as mere tools to acheive their agenda.

[Diana82]

Yes, perhaps I am being too hard on myself.

I think I was always very conflicted. My ex was SO seemingly normal... so well put together that I would never think she would exaggerate harassment/abuse.

One minute I thought she was this sad victim... there was genuine sorrow in her eyes... real tears... real pain...

then I'd think her stories don't add up ...   how come I'm the only person who knows about her abusive life? She puts on this different mask when around her family, friends etc. And why the inconsistencies her the stories? Why are they drip feed to me after arguments as well?

I'd see how open she could be with me... how direct and seemingly 'honest'... and other times I thought she was manipulative.

Is it actually possible a BPD can think they 'almost' got raped?

My ex was vague in her story about this... or is it more they just feel easily threatened?

It just makes me sick to think she lied about almost being raped...    I think it's disgusting almost... I understand it's a mental illness but it's still a disgrace!

[almost789]

They need to have a reason for why their love relationship didnt work out. They can not accept the blame for it. They cant except even one little part of it. They are just not emotionally mature enough for that. So what they do is exaggerate things and put the blame on you. It is distorted, but its a defense for them. Mine was ok with me taking the blame and it was one way i was able to get him to return to me, by telling him it was my fault. ILL Take the blame if it means youll come back. This didnt last long though, cause i quicky got angry for taking the blame for something i didnt do! I got mad, told him exactly what he was doing, projecting his problems on me. Told him he was stuck and would never get anywhere as ling as he was in denial and not accepting his problems. He took off.

[Take2]

It almost seems like that my actions after the breakup (because I never begged for him back) distorted his perception (I abandoned him... .  he was testing me).  He joked with another friend while I was standing there (months after the breakup) that I broke up with him!  The few times I tried to reach out to him via email, he seemed EXTREMELY angry.  He never ignored me, just angry, blaming me and playing the victim. 

Mine was like this when he described every past relationship to me.  When first getting to know him, he would tell me how whatever past girlfriend had left him and how devastated he had been.  But then later (a year or more) in discussing things, it came out that he had actually been the one who broke up with these girls but he always said they made him do it because they gave him no choice, their actions were so horrible to him.  Over time it became clear that their actions were nothing - after three years of getting to know him - I could piece together his stories and see that in most of his stories, these people had probably done nothing horribly wrong, they were being accused of things he was making up.  Just as he has done to me over and over and over.  So, no doubt that the day I stop speaking to him completely it will happen to me - the smear campaign.  And because we work together so closely, I do stay in contact to avoid that.  But he does it to my face to such a huge extent that I have wound up questioning myself over and over - despite knowing that I'm not the horrible person he often claims me to be.