They MUST Know That They Have Something Wrong With Them.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

For a pwBPD to go through as many relationships as they do, they must know that they have a problem. Or do they?

[Willingtolearn]

For a pwBPD to go through as many relationships as they do, they must know that they have a problem. Or do they?

[trevjim]

I wonderd this, I guess its them thinking its everyone else's fault and not theirs that they have the string of failed relationships

[Clearmind]

People with BPD do not have the emotional maturity to understand all the intricate reaasons for a relationship failure.

There in lies the reason to the question: "Can you hold a disordered person responsible"? The answer from my perspective is No! Not good casting blame and disdain for our partners - our ex's have no idea how to climb of the emotional hole they are in.

Thankfully you do!

[angelica_evil]

I have recently had this discussion with my partner on a few occasions as of late. When he would lay into me for all of the supposed wrong doings, and say broad based things like, 'all women are evil and the source of all of my problems' or 'all women are the same... lying, cheating sluts, etc.' I would remind him of the times that he says, 'well I am different. not everyone is the same', and during one of our last blow ups, where I admittedly lost my cool and was trying to hurt him even a tiny bit as bad as I was hurting, i informed him that the only thing that was the 'same' in all of his failed relationships was him. That he was incapable of maintaining a functioning relationship with anyone, that everyone eventually couldn't take his issues and walked away, and that i should be doing the same. He honestly refused to acknowledge that he had any wrong doing whatsoever, that 'all humans' were just liars, schemers, and don't treat him well and cannot be trusted. What is funny, is that now that he is in treatment, and his psychologist informed him that he suffered from BPD as well as intermittent explosive disorder, he acknowledged it, but still refuses to see that it's the illness that causes these fights, break ups, etc, and still insists that it's me, his mother, his father, his brother, etc.

[Wooddragon]

Mine warned me very early on about his inability to sustain relationships & said that he "just knew" that he was going to "f%#k this up" (ie with me). I believe that it causes him a huge amount of pain but he is able to ignore this in relation to his dealings with friends & colleagues & when painting others black (or grey as sometimes happens). Despite everything that has happened he reminds me that he is a "good person" and that I will never "find a better man" (than him).  I think that when he says it he really wants to believe it and convinces himself that I might as well (heck it worked the first dozen times!)

[PrettyPlease]

For a pwBPD to go through as many relationships as they do, they must know that they have a problem. Or do they?

I've asked myself that question, and maybe most of us did at some point. But after (unfortunately) two main uBPDso relationships, with g-d knows how many recycles in total, plus two very close working relationships with people of my own gender, one uBPD and the other uMPD, I can only report this: all four of them blamed external people or circumstances almost all the time. Three of them (the uMPD and 2 of the uBPDs) on rare occasions referred to the possibility that there might be something wrong with them, but the idea didn't continue for long. If it came up again it might be two years later and be formed in a different way. So I'd say none of them gave me evidence that they had a lasting idea that there was something wrong with them. That doesn't mean they didn't know it, in some way, under a layer of defenses, or maybe non-verbally. But if so it wasn't in a place I could interact with it. Perhaps an experienced T could, but anyway my guess is that it isn't available as a topic for discussion in a r/s. Bringing it up generally brought projection, as in: "YOU NEED THERAPY", directed at me. Might have been a good idea, now that I think of it. At least one of us might have been able to bail out early.   

PP

[just me.]

It is a mental illness in which delusional thinking is triggered by critical self-examination.  I know that mine knows something is wrong with her, but I think she also knows (subconsciously perhaps) that the process of acknowledging that results in her actually pretty much losing her mind.

In my limited experience with people with other mental illnesses, the situation seems to be quite different.  The landmines that set off psychotic episodes in other mental illnesses often seem scattered randomly and unpredictably:  One day he may think his wireless router is being controlled by the government to read his thoughts, and the next day he can look back at that and realize that he lost his mind.  What set off the psychotic episode?  I'm not able to say, but it seems reasonable to say that the association made with the wireless router is rather arbitrary.  He can later, in a moment of greater clarity, think about the wireless router without another psychotic episode being triggered.  He is mentally ill, but it is possible for him to see it within himself and seek help.

BPD is different.  The landmines that trigger delusional thinking make a perfect circle around the person's core self.  And they don't move.  In this sense, my uxBPDw can know that something is wrong with her, but the process of thinking about it will always disrupt her rational thinking, and prevent her from making real progress towards acknowledging or addressing the problem.  When in her more rational moments, she can see her insanity... .  but the act of seeing her insanity makes her return to it, and the context of "a more rational moment" ceases to apply.

It really is a Catch-22.

If you had a mental illness that caused you to go crazy every time you thought about being crazy, what would you do?  I think we'd all do the same thing:  we'd learn to try to think about it as little as possible.  To them, there is a bad, ugly, dangerous something that is associated with these thoughts - and there is no way through the landmines... .  one can only go around them, or flee from them, or hide from them.

And it seems like that task of hiding and fleeing becomes the overwhelming driving force in their lives.  And it is a task which takes all of their heart, soul, and energy to attempt to accomplish.  Things like love and romance and commitment and companionship are simple moving gears in this world, as are the people in their lives.  These people can either help them in their task (which makes them a momentary hero), or hurt them in this task (which makes them dangerous and awful).

Mine definitely knows something is wrong with her, but she can't face that or process that in a rational way.  So she screams that she's "strong" and "happy" and "okay" to anyone that will listen.  I'm sure she'd love to face it... .  but if she were able to, then she probably wouldn't have BPD... .  at least not in the same way that she does.

It really is a Catch-22.

[nowwhatz]

Mine knows but she has never had a proper diagnosis from a psychiatrist.  She also knows I know which makes me alternate from being the only guy who understands and accepts her to being a threat.

What is boiled down to for me was that she is aware and refuses to try any type of therapy. She says it doesn't work etc. and prefers to be hopeless.

It seems like BPD does not get the attention it deserves in the media and there is not general awareness of this insideous disorder. I think that contributes to the problem ... .  I didn't know about BPD until I got involved with the BPD exgf and then only after going through a lot.

[KellyO]

My exBF has so many defenses against not feeling normal, and one of them is no, he did not have many relationships. He had two before me, and now I'm the third (because he can't put me in any other position, we lived together for a while). This man is 42 years old. I was really in awe when I started to realize the mindf-k he had going on there. He just did not count all the other relationships with women he had had as being relationships. He had sex with them, yes, he might see one for a year, yes, but it "was not serious because nothing could come out of it". He had a relationship with a woman who already had a BF, so it was not relationship because of that. And if I started to check his talks about all these other relationships he cut me short (he has ADHD so his not a good lier, he can't remember what he said some other time). He tells everyone in his life he had only two relationships before me.

Of course he knew I was sad I had so many broken relationships behind me, some codependents have because we choose relationships that never can work and we are angry people. He used it against me many times, belittled me about it to make me feel myself like a "woman with ill reputation (which I don't have)"

This is just one example how his mind works to make sure he does not have to live with the reality of himself. I don't know if it gets better now he has adhd-medication and support for that, because I'm not there to see it. ADHD does not make one to be emotionally violent and abusive controlling manipulative tool.

[BlushAndBashful]

Well, that depends on a number of things. My ex would constantly say "I'm not good at relationships"- which I thought was odd, since I probably dated more people back in high school than he has his whole life (he was pushing 50 btw).

So he's "not good at r/s" but yet had a whopping total of 3 r/s under his belt. He's "not good at r/s" but yet his exes had lists of faults a mile long, and he was blameless and a victim. He's "not good at r/s" but that's because he would do stupida$$ $hit like lie, cheat, dump everyone at the drop of a hat and commit adultery.  I dunno, when you do stuff like that in a r/s, there are bound to be a few hiccups, right?

On the other hand, as I desperately told him repeatedly (before I knew he really *did* have a problem)... .  don't we all have a string of failed r/s behind us? What defines a "failed r/s"?  Dating someone for a few months? A year? 5 years?  Is it a "failed r/s" if you drift apart after 6 months, or find out that it just isn't going to work?  Unless you fell in love and married your first and only high school sweetheart, don't most of us have a history? 

But yes, my ex does know he "has a problem" which he sometimes even admits to. His answer, I believe, is basically to remain single and hook up occasionally with his emotionally unavailable, narcissistic best friend. Not the kind of life I would want... .  but I guess it works for them.

[angelica_evil]

For a pwBPD to go through as many relationships as they do, they must know that they have a problem. Or do they?

Bringing it up generally brought projection, as in: "YOU NEED THERAPY", directed at me.

PP

I am all too familiar with this as well. During our last 'episode', which has brought on day 3 of my silence/punishment today, I said to him, 'I know you don't mean that. You aren't a cruel, sadistic person, it's the illness and issues speaking', which was met with, 'I don't have anything wrong with me. YOU are a typical, psychotic female who is in desperate need of therapy yourself.' Despite the fact that he IS under the care of a psychologist, and has claimed that he cannot help his own actions, when he gets into his 'blacking me out' mode, he doesn't even consider that just maybe, it's the illness causing it, he is CONVINCED I, or other people, are the enemy.

[angelica_evil]

He just did not count all the other relationships with women he had had as being relationships. He had sex with them, yes, he might see one for a year, yes, but it "was not serious because nothing could come out of it". He had a relationship with a woman who already had a BF, so it was not relationship because of that. And if I started to check his talks about all these other relationships he cut me short (he has ADHD so his not a good lier, he can't remember what he said some other time). He tells everyone in his life he had only two relationships before me.

This is just one example how his mind works to make sure he does not have to live with the reality of himself. I don't know if it gets better now he has adhd-medication and support for that, because I'm not there to see it. ADHD does not make one to be emotionally violent and abusive controlling manipulative tool.

It really is quite shocking at just how specific the symptoms of this illness are. pretty much every single thread I have viewed on this board, I could have written myself. In my case, I am the one my BPDbf has claimed he 'isn't in a relationship with'. Despite the fact that he told his therapist that I was his girlfriend, we have been "exclusive" for the past two years, he says he loves me (when he isn't blacking me out), we have spent every night together for pretty much the past few months, and he is utterly jealous, possessive, and hawks every single thing I do and person i speak with, he still maintains to his family and others that he 'will never have a girlfriend again because nobody can be trusted'... .  HELLO! What am I, then? we agreed we wouldn't put a 'label' on our situation, yes, and honestly, that was probably only for his tendency to claim at will, that he 'doesn't have a girlfriend and never wanted anyone around in the first place', when it suits him, or he is lying to other women, or bs'ing with certain lowlife friends of his, commiserating, if you will. I said to him the other night, 'why do you do this? it's like wearing pants, and then saying that you will never wear pants again in your entire life, while you have them on.' He didn't have a good answer for that one, and perhaps that was one of the 'hard' questions that probably led to the rage/explosion in the first place. He realized he was closer than he thought, so he felt the need to 'black me out' that night.

[PrettyPlease]

It is a mental illness in which delusional thinking is triggered by critical self-examination. 

[snip... .  ]

It really is a Catch-22.

If you had a mental illness that caused you to go crazy every time you thought about being crazy, what would you do?  I think we'd all do the same thing:  we'd learn to try to think about it as little as possible.  To them, there is a bad, ugly, dangerous something that is associated with these thoughts - and there is no way through the landmines... .  one can only go around them, or flee from them, or hide from them.

just_me_500, I think this is a great plain-language summary of things that a lot of people have been trying to express from various angles about BPD. I think it would take sophisticated MRI work and a well-designed study to 'prove' that it's true, but I'd put my own money down that the result would substantiate it.

And maybe another component is the lack of ability to add to a stable internal model of themselves during dysregulation, so that they start over again after dysregulation. What I mean is, if dysregulation is part of the fight-or-flight hormonal reaction, as a we-need-everything-right-now-to-fight-or-run-with, then BPD dysregulation might cut out the long-term thinking facility and interfere with the ability to record internally, in long-term memory, any objective thoughts about the self.

Combined with the above, almost no thoughts about self problems would survive: if they started they'd get cut off by dysregulation, and even the memory of the starting the thought would get wiped out by the emotional reaction in dysregulation.

I've had a personal experience that taught me about this. In short: I was caring for a child and the child had an accident. Emotional emergency for me. Afterwards: I couldn't remember what I'd done with my pack that had my wallet in it. Wallet has all credit cards, everything. I've never in my life lost track of it like that. Had no memory at all of the pack or the wallet AT ALL. I retraced my steps and found where I had safely tucked it all away, BEFORE THE ACCIDENT HAPPENED. Two minutes later, accident. Memory gone forever of where I put the pack and wallet. I didn't even remember putting it there after I found it. The accident, two minutes later, had erased the memory.

So, if you're BPD, you think about yourself as having a problem, and then you dysregulate (as you described). After calm down: start over. Don't really remember what happened to me. [Look up at SO]. Who are you? Maybe it was YOUR fault!   

PP

[KellyO]

He didn't have a good answer for that one, and perhaps that was one of the 'hard' questions that probably led to the rage/explosion in the first place.

In my r/s hard questions always ended up in rage and he threatening me with break up. I saw it as a punishment. I made him see there is something wrong in his picture of things (and he could not just explain it away, it was so obvious) = I have caused it. And, of course, I could be blaimed of being the one who did everything he did, and saying everything he had said. It does not make any sense, and I have no idea how his mind works. But, if he keeps this, he will have dementia in age 55. No ones brains can take that much twisting reality. It has been studied that pathological liers and such damage their brains in the long run.

[almost789]

I think it depends on the "level" as in "high functioning" vs "low functioning" and other things. Mine seems to know something is wrong. I've had hints and things from words that he has said to me, but clearly are the words of someone who knew things about himself and his relationships that I didn't but was soon to find out. I've also had positive responses if I've brought it up to him at times. We've discussed things, treatment options and other things. However, this is usually followed within hours or the next day a complete switch from a positive thinking view to splitting and projection. I think some know something, but at the same time just can't face it and it triggers them, yes, the defenses kick in and they bury it.

[nolisan]

I was ignorant of BPD while in r/s with ex. She carped continually about her PTSD, ADD/ADHD, splitting, slight MPD but never mentioned BPD - except in labeling others (one was her daughter).

She was well read on psychology and had studied to be a psych nurse (she never told me about that).

I am SURE she knew. Wish she had have shared that with me so as I had of known what I was getting myself into.

[Mike_confused]

I think my BPD wife also knows.   Looking back, I think she has known long before she and I met.    I remember when we were first together years ago her sister called her crazy, so she went crazy!  She told me repeatedly she was not crazy.   Crazy?  At that time I never even entertained the thought of her having any mental illness.

Now, she has said she wants a divorce.  She is in therapy and has mentioned that she needs to not continue certain behaviors.  She has also accused me of being BPD - classic projection as I understand it.  She said that she "walked on eggshells" around me the other day.   Obviously, she had a conversation with her therapist.   I am not sure whether she convinced the therapist that I am the BPD one or whether it was suggested by the therapist that she may have BPD.  The Therapist must have put the pieces together... .  severely NPD mother, sexual abuse at a young age, first husband put on a plane 6 months pregnant to get rid of her, previous boy friend disconnected the power and shut the heat off in january (in the northern US) when she had two small kids to get her out.

She was married to her first husband about a year and a half before he booted her, she lived with the boyfriend for about a year and a half before he forced her out.   We have been together 6 years, married 2 and a half years... .  she split me all black about a year ago - 18 months into our relationship.     Curious.

So yes... .  I think she knows, and I also think her therapist does also.   

We have been apart 16 days.   We go a couple days without text messages, then she sends me a string of them to tell me about some day-to-day thing.  I respond of course.   She tells me that she just wants me to know this or that even though its not my problem anymore.

Well, why would she tell me the day to day stuff?  I suspect it is to re-engage me - to suck me back in.

[just me.]

It is a mental illness in which delusional thinking is triggered by critical self-examination.

[snip... .  ]

It really is a Catch-22.

If you had a mental illness that caused you to go crazy every time you thought about being crazy, what would you do?  I think we'd all do the same thing:  we'd learn to try to think about it as little as possible.  To them, there is a bad, ugly, dangerous something that is associated with these thoughts - and there is no way through the landmines... .  one can only go around them, or flee from them, or hide from them.

just_me_500, I think this is a great plain-language summary of things that a lot of people have been trying to express from various angles about BPD. I think it would take sophisticated MRI work and a well-designed study to 'prove' that it's true, but I'd put my own money down that the result would substantiate it.

And maybe another component is the lack of ability to add to a stable internal model of themselves during dysregulation, so that they start over again after dysregulation. What I mean is, if dysregulation is part of the fight-or-flight hormonal reaction, as a we-need-everything-right-now-to-fight-or-run-with, then BPD dysregulation might cut out the long-term thinking facility and interfere with the ability to record internally, in long-term memory, any objective thoughts about the self.

Combined with the above, almost no thoughts about self problems would survive: if they started they'd get cut off by dysregulation, and even the memory of the starting the thought would get wiped out by the emotional reaction in dysregulation.

Thanks for this response, PrettyPlease.  There is definitely a lot of conjecture in my assessment; I realized after posting it that I probably should have prefaced it with a "From what I can tell from my experience... " or something along those lines to soften the presentation of any sort of certainty.

Still, though, the idea makes a lot of sense to me, and the concept of "triggers of delusion" surrounding one's most core self really does pretty much manage to sum up everything I've ever come to understand/experience of this disorder.  It also makes sense to me in regards to the possible origins of the condition:  It is reasonable that in development a human being's system could learn to do anything to protect its center, even if it means altering the perception of reality.

There is some discussion on these boards on whether early perceived traumas are causative or symptomatic of this disorder, but if one is to accept them as at least partially causative, then I picture my uxBPDw as a little tiny girl being molested by rows of insane men... .  and I picture her mother screaming at her that everything's fine, she's lucky, and that she deserves whatever she gets.  In the midst of that, it seems reasonable that something would *click* and her system would shift to utter self-protection... .  with delusion being one of the essential tools of survival.  When the core comes under any sort of perceived attack, memories and experiences and feelings and realities may all be re-arranged as necessary until she knows again that she is strong and okay and okay and okay.

And okay.

It seems reminiscent of a robot (like in a science-fiction movie); one that has an internal error somewhere that causes a force-feedback loop due to a certain trigger.  You can't make the robot diagnose the problem, because the examination of the problem brings up the trigger, which then triggers the problem.  You can't make the robot remember the problem, because remembering the problem brings up the trigger, which then triggers the problem.  The force-feedback loop is overcome only by avoidance.

I don't really know if my interpretation of this is true, but the simple summation that I wrote here a couple days ago has actually helped me these past couple of days.  In this context, her refusal to really see herself no longer seems to me like a sign of weakness.  I think she has learned (subconsciously) from experience that self-examination creates a bizarre and blurry mess... .  and every time she tries to do it, something goes horribly wrong:  The next thing she knows she is getting force-fed charcoal in an emergency room (due to overdose), or she is in a pile of confused tears after acting in a way that reminds of her crazy mother, or she is having a vicious out-of-character affair, or she is destroying her own family that she's always loved more than anything.

She almost looks back on it, and almost sees it... .  but the process of seeing it begins to start the cycle again... .  and so then she desperately and frantically stops seeing it.  She stops seeing it, and she forgets she ever saw it, and she vows (somewhere inside herself) to never see it again.

Which, of course, must be utterly exhausting.

I think to your point, I feel like the memory of starting the thought is completely entangled with the thought itself.  It needs to be wiped out by any means necessary.  If the thoughts are in writing (and therefore not possibly truly forgotten), then they are necessarily dismissed as being moments of insanity (e.g. "the only times I was ever crazy were those times that I thought I was crazy... .  other than that, I'm perfectly fine."

As your example demonstrates, the ability of one's mind to function differently according to emotional need is something I think we've all experienced... .  for them, it seems, that sense of desperate emotional need is sitting in them all the time.  No big accident needed.

Looking at it that way does make my emotions shift back a little bit from anger towards sympathy.  For the moment at least.

[FindingMe2011]

   Looking at it that way does make my emotions shift back a little bit from anger towards sympathy.  For the moment at least.   

When you get to these moments, keep pushing for the origin of this anger. This proves the anger only resurfaced, and was triggered by this r/s. This could be said for all the other emotions, you are experiencing... .  I wish you well, PEACE

[Tausk]

It's a mental illness.  Many of the homeless are pwBPD.  They may know that they are different but simply lack the capacity to know why they are different or how their actions cause suffering.  The only difference between a homeless baglady and my is that my ex wBPD has better survival skills to move through our world as an imposter.

But the fact is that she is stuck at the emotional maturity level of a terrified three year old.  She has never learned to take responsibility, to apologize, to feel compassion or to sacrifice.  It's not that she won't engage in such behaviors, it's that she CAN'T.   She's never ever reached that phase of development.  And it's not just that she's stuck at being a toddler.  She is a terrified and abused toddler, living in her very real nightmares, and with specifically an attachment disorder.  

I'd have more luck asking a person with Down's syndrome to explain what's wrong with them.  They may know that they are different in someways, but for them to be self-aware and understand why they are different is beyond them.  

[trouble11]

I was collecting some items that BPDbf left here and came across a book by Daniel G Amen, MD.  Change Your Brain Change Your Life   "The Breakthrough Program for Conquering Anxiety, Depression, Obsessiveness, Anger, and Impulsiveness"    Hmmmmmm 

So my guess is he knows, but if this book had that nasty acronym anywhere on the cover I can almost guarantee he would not have bought it. 

[tailspin]

 

I know my ex had moments of clarity and he would become visibly agitated if the conversation drifted towards psychology or any topic he felt would bring the conversation closer towards any questions he wanted desperately to avoid.  I know his FOO called him horrible names to his face and made fun of his "anger" but at the time, I didn't have any idea why.  It now seems horribly cruel.

I think myexpwBPD knew something was wrong with him but his intense shame forced him to avoid it; admitting he was ill was the equivalent of emotional suicide.  As long as he could avoid the "knowledge" of his illness he could, in essence, avoid his illness. 

Denial is a powerful defense mechanism that keeps them from failing off the edge of insanity.   

tailspin

[Vinnie]

My stbxBPDw blames her behavior on PTSD, because it shifts all the blame to the hurtful actions of others.

When I finally told her I suspected she had BPD, she raged, cried, accused me of abuse and character assassination... .  and it continues.

[Weird Fishes]

Wondering if anyone had the opposite happen?

I was involved with a man who had a lot of BPD traits.  Ultimately I think he was bipolar, and whether that caused BPD like behavior or he actually qualified for that disorder as well I'll never know.

He was constantly on about how "not well" he was.   Psychiatrist, therapist, meds, etc.  It was a fact, but he also used it as an excuse and manipulation tool.  He would apologize after rages with the qualifier of "I'm not well."   The entire relationship was based explicitly on  "I have to have you in my life and you have to do whatever I want because I am Sick and those are my Needs as a Sick Person".   

It wasn't a front though-he KNEW he was deeply messed up.  And I think he was genuinely working on it, in some ways.

He also never told me the nature of his diagnosis (he MUST have had at least one), which in retrospect may have been intentional... .  a lot of advice for people in a rs with someone with BPD or Bipolar is to leave.   

[jaird]

Mine knew there was something wrong with her, and described herself as "crazy", "psycho", and "complex". She first heard about BPD when her daughter's therapist said her mother might have it because she pushes away loved ones. She took the online test for BPD and got six of the nine responses as positive. So she got an affirmative diagnosis that way. I also took the test as her, based on what she had told me about her life and behavior, and got the same six positives.

Then she bought me a book on loving someone with BPD. She asked me if I was in this for the long haul, and I said I was.

I found her a therapist by her that specializes in BPD. She told me she called, but the woman did not take her insurance, and the cost for a years treatment was in the thousands of dollars, so she blew it off and saw a generic therapist a few times until she decided "I am what I am, and we are all products of our environment", and stopped seeing the therapist after about three visits because of the co-payments and because "she couldn't help me anymore"

Now, to this day, if we argue and I see BPD like behavior and point it out, she denies she has BPD! She says our issues are real, and a few of them are. But it's not that the issues we have are not real, it's her reaction to them!

So, I would say, at least in the case of my ex, that she knows she has but is in some sort of denial about it most of the time.

[Seb]

Mine almost certainly knew something was wrong with her - but I doubt very much if she can label it.

Very early on she told me she felt she was abnormal for being gay, and she regularly displayed signs of shame during sex (covering her face with a pilow). When she relaxed and dropped her outgoing and fun-loving facade she would cry constantly and in her words, was "always meant to be unhappy and alone". I regularly heard that when we argued, along with, "I'm just not good at relationships!"

Last Valentine's Day, I had a homemade card saying she was so happy that she'd finally found the one for her... .  3 months later I drove her crazy.

She dumped me just before we moved in together and two days after showing me places for us to rent. The last time I saw her, I noticed an order from Amazon, a book called "A man who mistook his wife for a hat". This isn't a BPD book, but a book on neurological disorders, on 'broken minds'. I always wonder if that was her way of trying to find out what it was that was wrong with her?

[jaird]

Mine almost certainly knew something was wrong with her - but I doubt very much if she can label it.

Very early on she told me she felt she was abnormal for being gay, and she regularly displayed signs of shame during sex (covering her face with a pilow). When she relaxed and dropped her outgoing and fun-loving facade she would cry constantly and in her words, was "always meant to be unhappy and alone". I regularly heard that when we argued, along with, "I'm just not good at relationships!"

Last Valentine's Day, I had a homemade card saying she was so happy that she'd finally found the one for her... .  3 months later I drove her crazy.

She dumped me just before we moved in together and two days after showing me places for us to rent. The last time I saw her, I noticed an order from Amazon, a book called "A man who mistook his wife for a hat". This isn't a BPD book, but a book on neurological disorders, on 'broken minds'. I always wonder if that was her way of trying to find out what it was that was wrong with her?

That's funny in many ways. My ex had bisexual tendencies. I didn't see her act on these, but she told me she did once when we first got together. She was drinking with two friends, and one of these women had a friend along that my ex didn't know. When the night was ending they all went back to one woman's condo to sleep. My ex seduced the woman who she had just met. The poor woman was telling her "I am not gay, I am not gay", but basically went along with it. She was a very traditional, Catholic woman. Other than that, it was mostly we talked about what we would do. She was very insistent that if we looked for a threesome, we did it on a Caribbean island or far from home. One of the last things she told me was that she was going to go to a gay bar and look for a possible partner, someone for us. I told her I thought this was a bad idea, both because my ex had a drinking problem, and I also did not believe she would find the feminine type she likes in a gay bar. In retrospect, maybe I should have just told her to go for it, as she was very excited by the idea, and said she was doing it for us. I really just did not want her sleeping around. She also had an affair with a woman she worked with. It was short lived, and it ended when the woman tried to introduce her boyfriend/drug dealer into the mix. She later described this gay lover as an untrustworthy crackhead, LOL.

We also broke right before i was to move to her area. Literally weeks before. I think the fear of failure really caused her to end our relationship. I think she knew there was no way she could be rational, calm, loving, supportive. She had failed already at these things long distance, and I think she knew she would fail again. Things she said, such as "I will love you forever, but it would never work, too much of a power struggle", led me to believe that she prefers the memories of the good times we had together, and kind of memorializes them, and prefers that to a real day to day relationship.

[jaird]

My stbxBPDw blames her behavior on PTSD, because it shifts all the blame to the hurtful actions of others.

When I finally told her I suspected she had BPD, she raged, cried, accused me of abuse and character assassination... .  and it continues.

Yup. Mine did the same, even though it was she was was self diagnosed. It's like when she didn't want the therapy, she claimed she never had it anymore and it was me with the problem, and I had made all this up. That's so funny, because until she told me she failed the assessment test, I had never even heard of BPD.

[Traye]

Yep, mine knew something was wrong with her, especially in her clearer, more lucid moments.  I used to accuse her of being incapable of holding up her half of a relationship.  One day, in a very calm voice, out of nowhere, she acquiesced and said she was afraid I was right.  We weren't fighting or even upset.  It was a good engagement. 

As things became rockier for us, I think she ran away from that realization.  She had to in order to paint me all black, and to get through the end of our relationship.  But she knows something's wrong with her ability to do relationships, and she knows I know.  It's one of the things that helped her end things... .  the shame of me knowing was too much for her.

[struggli]

I bought a bunch of books about recovering from childhood sexual abuse and abusive childhoods in general. 

I read one paragraph aloud to uBPD ex that summed up so much of my experience with her.  It said your partner may be sneaky, hide things from you, be evasive, and so on.  Honestly, it's what troubled me most about her.  Anyway, she took the book out of my hand and threw it across the room and said it sounded like I was blaming her. 

So, I never opened up one of the books again, even though she had previously agreed that we would work thru this together.

Shortly thereafter her sneakiness became more pronounced and her presence rare.