Question about BPD memory and splitting

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

For those who don't have a problem with me trying to "understand" the disorder, I am looking for an answer or explanation for something I don't get about BPD. I know that when we confront our BPD's with bad behavior, or do or say something they don't like, or something happens which contributes to them splitting us and only seeing us as "bad" and no longer remember the good in the relationship anymore. What I don't understand is, how and why this "bad" memory of us stays with them forever, or at least for a very long time. But the "good" memory dissappears. They can no longer remember the "good" things. I don't understand if they have issues with object constancy how are they able to hold the BAD stuff in their memory, but they can't hold on to the GOOD stuff?

[almost789]

For those who don't have a problem with me trying to "understand" the disorder, I am looking for an answer or explanation for something I don't get about BPD. I know that when we confront our BPD's with bad behavior, or do or say something they don't like, or something happens which contributes to them splitting us and only seeing us as "bad" and no longer remember the good in the relationship anymore. What I don't understand is, how and why this "bad" memory of us stays with them forever, or at least for a very long time. But the "good" memory dissappears. They can no longer remember the "good" things. I don't understand if they have issues with object constancy how are they able to hold the BAD stuff in their memory, but they can't hold on to the GOOD stuff?

[trevjim]

I think its something to do with them not being able to face up to the past, if they see us as 'bad' then they think 'oh he/she was bad their not worth thinking about' where as if they held onto the good they would 'miss us' in the same way alot of us miss them

[Whitefang]

I agree.  The splitting helps them "justify" the nons perceived "bad behavior", so its easier for them to detach quickly.  Like a switch, they turn us off.  Any "good" we shared is completely gone to them, replaced with contempt & loathing.  You gotta remember the projection here. 

[ennie]

One of the things about BPD folk is that they are all individual people... .  so what I am saying comes from a combination of reading and observation of the particular BPD person in my life, the mom of my SDs, who was severely abused as a child. 

In reading about the effects of high conflict situations on children, I have come across the phrase "trauma dialogues," which I understand to mean the inner stories we create, but those in response to trauma.  The idea is that stories we make in a traumatic situation that help kids to survive tend to be much less likely to change as time goes on. 

So the way I see it is that the BPD person is not "remembering" a bad experience with you, but extrapolating from her childhood experience and placing you in the category of someone by whom she felt threatened/loved before.  She is then relating to you as that. 

Another useful concept to me in understanding the BPD person in my life is the idea that BPD is one of the dissociative mental illnesses, which at other extremes and situations include PTSD and multiple personality syndrome.  The idea is that as a way of coping with an extremely traumatic and stressful experience, the person separates from her experience and is not present to her feelings and experience in that moment.  In that state, it is very difficult to access what is actually happening, so I think the "story" of what is happening becomes more powerful.  When I see my SDs emulating that way of dealing with stress, I find that asking present tense sensory questions helps them to be in their bodies ("Is your body warm or cool?  What color is your heart right now?  Do you feel prickly or smooth?"--the questions do not have to make sense, just need to access feeling information). 

In the case of the BPD person in my life, I think that being victimized and being loved went hand in hand.  The line between being smothered with love and molested was slim, and if she messed up, the good feeling could turn quickly to someone beating her or locking her in a closet. So for her, a lot of the confusing, overwhelming, and even pleasurable feelings of intimacy and love trigger her alert system; when she was little, being loved might be quickly followed by being hurt, so when she is feeling these feelings, she becomes alert and attentive, causing her to falsely interpret others' as a danger to her. 

I had very little intense trauma as a child, so knowing the BPD mom of my SDs and having her do traumatizing things to our family has taught me so much about how we all respond when afraid.  I think the "black and white" thinking that BPD folk are said to possess is a very normal response to a very dangerous situation.  While there are many strategies for dealing with a threat, what our minds do when threatened seems to be that we narrow down and rather than taking in whether it is interesting, pretty, funny, and so forth, we focus on whether it is harmful, and how to avoid the harm.  Some of the things BPD mom does would not be as weird if someone was attacking her.  But she is acting like there is an attack when their is none.  I think her ability to perceive attack is broken by overuse as a child.  She is doing something that was functional when she was 5 in a highly dangerous home, but that does not work well in response to loving, kind people. 

Much like the harsh and hurtful ways she was treated as a child that helped her to grow into someone who can be cruel, the other reality is that her abuse affects the people around her to be more like her, which then creates a little spiral.  So while I used to be able to say "I love you, you are okay with me" when she would attack (which caused her to calm and be more kind), now I want to walk away or let her know it is not okay with me what she is doing, which then triggers her into a greater rage.

In sum, my personal take is that what seems like "not remembering" correctly is actually a learned response of not being present when things may be terribly painful, and then borrowing the trauma dialogue of her childhood and re-applying to the present stressful situation.   So it is not even really you she is "mis-remembering." 

[almost789]

Thanks all for your responses. Light bulbs are coming on from each response. I am thinking here, DEFENSES. Subconcious defense mechanisms for self protection. I'm a danger to him in his mind and yes the past is recreated in the present. Like the abused child who both loves and hates their abuser. Wow... .  this is so bizzare and complicated but fascinating. Anymore ideas from others appreciated.

[trouble11]

Not really an idea and probably not much help but I've wondered the same thing.  Even when not splitting mine seemed to have no recollection of things said or plans made.  When I would mention those things I only got a blank stare.  I don't know if it's because during that phase he was only saying things I wanted to hear, lying, and therefore could not remember.  I'm guessing that was the problem at that point.   

[almost789]

thanks trouble, mine too. I noticed the closer we got the more strange his memory got, like not remembering plans made, not remembering accurately things that were said, I guess thats part of dissassociation? Me not knowing at the time he had a mental disorder, I took alot of it as lying. So, perhaps they are not trully LYING in every case and it just seems that way. Perhaps they are actually dissassociating with some of these things they do rather than actually lying... .  wow.

[ennie]

Again, I see this as an artifact of the ability to dissociate in times of stress.  Only there are WAY MORE times of stress for a BPD person, as intimacy is perceived as stressful.  Because I have not had a lot of trauma, I do not dissociate often; but similar mental states are when I am doings something on my computer that is very engaging--I am focused intensely on a world that is far away from my present sense impressions.  If my husband tells me something while I am writing a legal brief, I do not remember it!  I have to stop what I am doing, switch gears, listen more closely, write it down.  Same with the kids when they are watching a movie; dinner is right in front of them, but they do not see it, even if they are hungry.  Which is why we have a house policy of no TV or digital stuff during dinner. 

But the take home point is that the BPD person has the ability to "check out" during lots of situations, even some that seem normal to the rest of us.  My husband also had a lot of pain and trauma in his childhood, and he seems psychologically healthy (he has also been in lots of counseling and had a pretty safe and good early childhood), but he is very good at shutting things out when he is overwhelmed. 

[almost789]

My BPD is a Manager of a large corporation chain. I can't possibly understand how he gets by at work, seeing how he basically fell apart congnitively months after we got together. I'm only now beggining to see how very disturbing and serious this disorder is. With that said, it seems it is only the "emotional" or intimate side in which they have the major issues. I suppose he is very logical and robotic at work. I guess he must switch into detached protector at work or something.

[Phoenix.Rising]

My ex is high functioning, and performs well on the job.  With a lot of hfBPDs, the disorder is often not visible at all unless in an intimate one-on-one relationship with them.  Then it becomes very visible.  I agree that intimacy triggers the disorder.  That's when the push/pull starts.  Very sad.

[mitti]

My ex would also seem to have a distorted memory of events, what's been said, done etc. and not always when splitting but as a general rule it seemed. He can remember the plot exactly from any book he has ever read but he cannot remember a certain important event in our r/s. One pattern I noticed was that the more he needed distance and the more panicky about the r/s the less accurately he would remember the good things in the past. He also had trouble remember seemingly insignificant things such as at what time we had decided to meet and of course this always turned into situation that potentially would blow up in my face. I have talked to him about how troubling I find his distorted memory, when I have been able to jog his memory or prove to him that my version of events was the correct one, but this would usually be met with not much more than indifference from him.

The other thing - often when he had been convinced about some past event, he would soon enough forget, and yet again stick to his own flawed version.

[almost789]

Mitti: "One pattern I noticed was that the more he needed distance and the more panicky about the r/s the less accurately he would remember the good things in the past"

Mine did the same. I thought he was lying about stuff. I suppose some was lies and some were just completely forgeting the facts. I do remember telling him, no you said this and you did this a few times and then he'd say, your right. This after telling me "huh?" "what arey you talking about?" I hated when he'd do this because I could remember pefectly clearly what was said and done and he'd say "what are you talking about" and I took this to mean he was trying to 'blow smoke' and gaslight me. Now I'm thinking he just completely lost memory of it. Sad! That I didn't understand this disorder earlier. I could have been much more understanding and accepting.

[mitti]

Same with my ex SummerT321,

He would often ask me "What are you talking about" but if I could connect the situation, conversation of whatever past event he couldn't remember to something that he did remember it would sometimes come back to him, or make sense to him or whatever blocks out their memory. When irritated though it was obvious he sometimes pretended to not remember to piss me off because he had learnt how important it was to me.

[cocobell]

I can relate to the memory thing. One year ago he says certain things, and is adamant about them (even saying stuff like, 'I really mean it' and 'I won't change my mind' etc). A few months down the line he is expressing surprise that I think those same certain things. He acts like I've made it all up or that I'm strange for thinking stuff about him that he literally told me himself.

I often wish I could transport him back in time and show him things he's said and done because he just denies them, and with that denial comes denial of how it affected me, too. It's like he's rewritten history according to how he feels now.

CB

[ennie]

I was thinking more about this, and it seems to me that it is less like non remembering or forgetting, and more like the old story becomes totally dominating under stress.  So around stressful topics, the BPD mom of the kids goes into her b/w mode, and the information available is about her childhood dramas, not about the present relationship.  I think we are all a little like that when REALLY upset--I know when I am really angry at DH, I might splutter out an interpretation of his actions that comes from some deep fear I have and an experience at 8 years old, rather than really listening to him and responding.  But for me, I am only really angry at him enough to revert to my child self about 3 times a year, and I can notice and apologize right away, and own my outburst. 

Whereas for a BPD person, TONS of little experiences trigger this degree of fear and upset, and she lacks a range of tools for dealing with triggered feelings 

[Maryiscontrary]

Yes, you guys are correct. This is dissociation that has been conditioned to kick in when parts of the limbic, or emotional centers, kick on. Kinda like pavlovs dog.

So this is where the psychosis starts. I see this with my exh, I saw it within myself.