stbXH finally seeking a psych Dr.

[gina louise]

We are divorcing at his doing-he raged and ranted and threw me out-it's been 3 months now.

MY largest condition on Staying and trying to work the marriage out was therapy-either joint or for him.

He refused... and pursued his "plans" to divorce, get me out of his life, sell the house, move, and so forth.

He's done ALL that.

Now that we are nearing settlement time-I find out he's going to see a shrink. (Now?)

After all his grandiosity/Inflation of being Super OK and moving on, feeling nothing but relief- being happier. I gotta wonder.

I hope he's doing this because he's really feeling the need. He was a distracted, anxious mess last time I saw him.

His contacts with me vary widely between friendly and erratic/angry. We have LC due to the divorce... .  stuff like dental bills, taxes, car Ins.

I seriously doubt that his impulsive and drastic actions "fixed" his life. He definitely needs help. Whether we are together or not-I HOPE he gets help.

I also wonder if he's going to use this as proof to me that he might want to reconcile. Uh, I mean recycle.

Anyone experienced the last ditch Hail Mary Pass saving the game?

I am OK moving on and feel no need to reconcile.

I am recovering well, making my own life around what I want to do. I am where I want to be. I am calmer than I have been in ages. Living MY life. Not living in his shadow. Not being bullied or coerced.

Does that make me a hypocrite if tell him NO, I am willing to proceed with the D.?

Now that he's doing what I had asked him to?

GL

[Changed4safety]

This is a hard thing to deal with.  I find myself often bound by my promises, and it took loving friends to point out that a promise made under duress, or in your situation, a promise made at a specific time when you felt a specific way, should not bind you if it hampers or harms you.  I vowed to my ex I would always see to it that he has money for meds and hospital bills... .  in our first three months together.  He understands that the dynamics have changed, and was OK with me stopping payment for his therapist, for instance. 

Whatever you "promised," things have changed.  You don't feel that way any more.  He's hurt you more, pushed you away more.  You have a right to your happiness, and if not being with him makes you happy, in my opinion, honor that.  The therapy will benefit him, I hope he continues to do it for himself, like you are doing what is right and healthy for you.

[Rose Tiger]

Isn't that like number 10 on the list of false beliefs?  The belief that they have 'seen the light'.  From my experience, seeing the light is short lived.  It takes years of therapy for a pwBPD, and they often drop out at the first sign of criticism from a therapist.  These are facts.

There was a poster a while back, he posted "3 to 5 years of therapy?  Yeah, she can call me in five years and we can grab a cup of coffee.  In the mean time, I'm moving on!"  I thought, he gets it and I wished I was that strong. 

[gina louise]

Rose Tiger, Hi there.

I am not saying I am stuck thinking now he's going to be fixed! He will not be. Not in a long, long time-and he's neither patient nor motivated.

I'm just wondering what he's up to-doing this now. I hope his motivations are real and internal, for his sake.

I figure he wants sleep aids, or maybe even validation (from the shrink) that he was The Ultimate Victim.

GL

[lockedout]

I try to see the good in everyone and sometimes those we feel are the least likely to change are the ones that do. BUT therapy is a process. Admitting to it and going to an appointment are only the first baby steps. If he is willing to change he can only do it for himself. If he's doing it, even in a genuine attempt to win you back, it will ultimately fail. The only truth to what he's doing is in his progress.

If you back down, he's virtually untreated at this point and he would have no incentive to keep going to therapy. He may not stick with it anyway; a therapist who can actually help him is going to challenge his distorted belief system and try to convince him differently. A BPDer can't have that - it suggests that they have faults which are never acceptable. He's looking for one who will be a "friend" for him to unload his troubles on and pat him on the back to keep him coming back.

[gina louise]

in rare and far between moments of clarity he would admit that nobody deserves being raged at-but he would NOT admit that's what he was doing to me! he would just make a broad and general observation about abusive behavior.

Even when HIS behavior was the topic of our conversation. NEVER apologized for what he did to me, Not once.

No way would I sacrifice myself to that abuse again.

I am not remotely considering backing down-but I AM curious, and wondering what's up. 

I realize the only way therapy will help is if he gets a dx, accepts the dx and commits to long term treatment.

he's had therapy before. Three separate times- many years apart.

He got a dx of bipolar-that he disagreed with-so he never continued the meds, or the therapy.

I hope for his sake that he's going bc he feels the NEED. Not that he's just having some insomnia and wants pills.

I wonder if he's been acting out in the workplace or with friends -who might call him on his s#it.

it's just sad. I can't hate him. He's too much of a mental mess.

And yes, I wonder if he's going to try the ~. I'm wise to it. It's not going to work.



GL

[lockedout]

I've made a lifetime of apologies during the 7 years we were together. So many that on a numerical basis alone, I can go without apologizing for a single thing for the rest of my life and still have plenty left over.

She apologized twice. Once, she actually acknowledged that she's not always aware of how her reactions can affect people. One time. I was such an emotional cripple the past year that I don't know if there was a motive or if she actually had a moment of clarity.

The other time was right after she illegally changed the locks on the house, she was unclear as to where to pass our son over to her. I assumed the house. When we were getting back in the car to go to another location and I was trying to explain to a crying toddler why I couldn't let him in, a guy in a Mustang I'd never seen before nonchalantly pulled up my driveway, opened the garage door, and pulled in. She'd later said he was the computer guy at work; married, two kids, and a christian. And that he was there as a favor "just in case" I became violent or destructive. She apologized for getting mad at me for my reaction to this and it was explained to her by a single male friend (of course) why I reacted the way I did. She didn't apologize at all for allowing the situation to occur but actually justified it and expected me to believe her story at face value. She would never tell me his name and he's never sent me a bill for the damage to his car. The only thing that saved that guy's life (other than the fact that he was too much of a coward to step out of the car) was my total disbelief and state of shock at seeing what I saw: I couldn't think clearly enough to get the right instrument to smash his window so I could yank him out of the car. I was totally robbed of my dignity and it showed me how little respect she had for me all along. I haven't been back there since. She accepted responsibility for none of it.

Here's the apology score:

Me: 17,697

Her: 2

Her view on working on her end of the relationship: "You threw me out of out marriage counseling (only suggested we were going nowhere with it) and I am doing my part on fixing our marriage: I'm waiting for you to stop the lip service, stop abusing me, and treat me like a man is supposed to treat his wife".

Score(excluding the 5 marriage counseling sessions together):

Me:

-Countless therapy visit since May of last year.

-Reading about two dozen books to try to learn what was wrong with me and how I could manage it to become a better husband.

-40 day love dare; completed but it should be taken with a grain of salt in a BPD relationship: it's suggestion are dangerous in our case because it's polarized against the spouse who is doing all the work. It accelerated my trip to rock bottom. Only good in the absence of pathology.

-About 5 appointments with a clinical psych an hour and a half away; initiated when she suggested I have Asperger's syndrome due to my lack of empathy. I'm glad I did it because I found out a lot of eye opening things about myself (and that I don't have Asperger's).

-Always accepting responsibility for thing I did wrong, even things she projected on to me.

Her:

-Two counseling sessions with two separate therapists.

-Going on forums that I'd been on (luckily not this one) to see what I was saying about her so she could confront me for "slandering" her.

-Having single male "friends" over the house while I was at work as a firefighter for 24 hours and filling them in on how unhappy she was with me. This led to her condemning me for "invading her privacy" when I stumbled across and e-mail from one of them while seeing where she was following me around online.

-Insisting that I go on Yahoo chat to tell me how fed up she was with me. These sessions would last for HOURS that I will never get back. 

-Joining a battered women's group where she learned that my attempts to talk her into going back to therapy were a form of manipulation and abuse.

-and of course "waiting" for me to "come around and stop treating her like ~".

[GreenMango]

Maybe he will take it seriously... .  hitting bottom and not having enablers around could do that.  Only time will tell.

Even if he does its long road... .  really long, like years long. 

[Clearmind]

I'd have to agree with GreenMango - BPDs don't seek help until they hit bottom. I am a firm believer in actions speak louder than words - Its possible he could go to just one session... .  we really don't know.

We do begin to have empathy for our BPD ex's - this is a sure sign of acceptance - empathy without the need to fix.

What I do know is that you are happy and living your life for you! This is awesome.

[real lady]

Does that make me a hypocrite if tell him NO, I am willing to proceed with the D.? Now that he's doing what I had asked him to? GL

Hi GL... .   the one thing that I have noticed and feel is VERY important for US nons is to BE CONSISTENT and NOT WAVER on what "we feel" because they seem to "pick up" on the "less stress" after we have detached and feel "better" and then assume that OUR relationship is "better" also when it is waning and we have emotionally "left".

How THEY see us is NOT something that I would even look at... .  how we see ourselves... .  holding onto truth, proceeding with the D because it took so long for us to realize that NOTHING SHORT OF IT would "wake him up" but then realizing that even that, may only mean a recycle if we would allow it.

If he is doing what "you asked him to"... .  GOOD FOR HIM... .  finally. But that is NOT a promise from him that I would take as any sincere attempt... .  After receiving the papers, he pleads for "more time" (last ditch), it is not sicnere and is only holding onto US because it is too painful for them to accept the reality that they created , it is only fear of abandonment.

LOOK FORWARD HON... .  only BPD recycling knocks at your door. You have made a good decision to "not answer it"... .  hugs.

[almost789]

I think you should stay the course you were on, regardless if he see's a psych. Did he ask for no divorce now? Anyway, I still think you should go ahead with it at this point. Last minute changes like this rarely work out the way you want. I don't think it is hypocritical.

[Hopeliveshere]

Hi,

I'm fairly new and have only my experiences with my BPDh to go by.  I've recycled 3 times. Each time his behavior changed and each time he came home he went right back to raging, emotionally absent, and so on.

What I'd like to know is how these people who are mentally ill, (and I believe they are) how they can be nice and behave when we detach or pull away, but when we try to converse and start up a normal relationship, they go all BPD on us?  This is how they get us - but it is so short-lived! It's like they are testing us. And how can they act so normal in front of other people, esp strangers?

I can so relate to "feeling sorry" for him - when I told this to my son he was confused, like why would you feel sorry for someone who treated you like that for 45 years? I'm a slow learner, especially when it came to realizing I am his trigger and that responding in anger just yielded more anger. Validating and responding with compassion and love calmed things down, but didn't change him. We flunked out of MC several times. He actually said he was "uncomfortable saying nice things" to me.

Eventually I realized he couldn't get under my skin if I didn't allow him to.

I'd like to thank the seasoned folks on this board. I write down your words of wisdom on stickys and put them around the house -on mirrors or any place I'll see them:

"They don't hear us"    "Lacking Any Empathy"   "It's not about you"

"Emotionally they are 2-3 year olds"   

[Rose Tiger]

They can be so sweet and normal at times, and that can lead to recycles.  The times I'm not feeling strong, when things are going badly, I'm feeling lonely or scared, those are danger times for me.  When I conquer something, like figuring out how the steam cleaner for the carpets works, I feel pretty darn good.  I bought wiper blades for the car and figured out how to put them on.  I felt really good figuring that out.   

[almost789]

Hopeliveshere: "What I'd like to know is how these people who are mentally ill, (and I believe they are) how they can be nice and behave when we detach or pull away, but when we try to converse and start up a normal relationship, they go all BPD on us?  This is how they get us - but it is so short-lived! It's like they are testing us. And how can they act so normal in front of other people, esp strangers?"

Hi hopeliveshere, Exactly, we detach emotionally, they pull us back. Strangers are detached emotionally. This is the only way they can show the better more normal side of themselves, when detached emotionally. Because it is the "emotional" side of them that is arrested at the level of a child. The logical detached side is normal and mature. Very perplexing indeed, but this is how the disorder works. I guess I have recyled enough to know that emotionally, it's impossible to be in a relationship with a BPD. Its also impossible to turn off emotionally from someone you once had a close emotional connection with. I'm an optimist so for the longest time I believed "we can do it" type thing if only we do it perfectly. I know now after at least 4 attempts at recycling, it is not possible. Not without significant specialized therapy.

[hithere]

I find out he's going to see a shrink. (Now?)

It is probably a ploy to hurt you... .  I doubt he will stick to it.  My ex also went to a DBT doctor after I left but she quit going when she realized it was not enough to get me back.

Does that make me a hypocrite if tell him NO, I am willing to proceed with the D.?

No it does not, too little too late and as far as BPD's go I don't think he will stick to it and if he does and gets better in a few years then good for him, did you really want to stay and suffer for all those years?  And maybe if you stayed he would not have started or continued.  :)on't drive yourself crazy with what ifs.

[gina louise]

I have known him long enough and closely enough to know that his NPD traits will most likely intervene and he will NOT stick with any therapy. I know that in my gut.

He's a risk for sticking to ANYTHING! (job, chores, r/s, gym, friends,) He just doesn't commit long term.

He has a history of starting strong and then fading-to stand back, and watch things disintegrate.

My hunch is that he wants validation from the Psych Dr. that it's not his fault-and maybe wants antidepressants. But he could have got that from his primary Dr.

I was just wondering if anyone else had ever had that last ditch attempt from their SO right before the real (Legal) ending to the r/s.

I never said I was going back! OMG NO. Yes, I feel compassion but not enough to sacrifice myself-Again.

We had ONE break-up and recycle before we got married.

That was enough. I don't need to prove anything to myself anymore. Not with him.

GL

[lockedout]

If you start discussing this in any detail, he will probably become frustrated and his oblique reasoning will seep through.

"I'm going to therapy in hopes of getting successfully treated so I stop acting in and abusive manner. I don't expect to win you back, but I want to do it so I can avoid that behavior in the future and move on to a happier life". This is what a healthy person would say ... .  and what he may say just to get you to cave for him. After some questioning about his progress and enforcing your need to see profound change before you can even entertain the idea it will turn into this, at least in my experience:

"There was nothing wrong with me I need to go to therapy after all the hurt and abuse you caused me I have anxiety because I live in fear of what you might do again I'm depressed because you ignored me and didn't show affection and withheld intimacy to punish me for the problems I was having because of you and now I'm having trouble at work and school because of all the stress you caused me and my health is not good and you don't even care I'm traumatized I hate my s**tty life and I supposed EVERYTHING is my fault now" the people at my abuse group told me that you would try to manipulate me into going to therapy to try to control me I knew this was going to happen when you started neglecting me and I knew it that day last year when you wouldn't rush home from work because I was sick and I needed help and you just came up with a bunch of excuses and later said you would improve but it's all been a bunch of lip service and things have been getting worse while I've been waiting for you to come around and stop treating me like s**t and I know you never loved me to begin with and don't care about me so I may as well be dead but I have a family that loves me and I'd be so much happier if they lived closer to me because I have nobody and your family hates me and wouldn't even care if something happened to the mother of their grandchild and now what you're trying to tell me is just more excuses and bashing and I don't have to take your abuse any more because I'm sick of this s**t and I don't have time to be talking to you while I'm at work so this conversation is over*".

*They initiate contact by asking you to contact them. Them calling you is too humbling.

[real lady]

My hunch is that he wants validation from the Psych Dr. that it's not his fault-and maybe wants antidepressants. But he could have got that from his primary Dr.

I am sensing this also... .  I expect it from my uBPDso when we go to counseling soon... .  same song, different singer.

I was just wondering if anyone else had ever had that last ditch attempt from their SO right before the real (Legal) ending to the r/s.

I expect that it is MORE COMMON than not for them to put on a face, they "have to be the ones who leave" us or it will show that THEY failed and they can't have that. It HAS to be our fault (in their eyes) and I don't think that they stop at very much to make sure it is seen that way; at least by themselves. They don't fool us any longer and we may pretend and "let them" think it just so we can END the charade.

I never said I was going back. OMG NO. Yes, I feel compassion but not enough to sacrifice myself-Again.

 Good hon... .  having compassion for ourselves is a sign of REAL healing from a relationship with a pwBPD. So happy for you.  

[gina louise]

Just to clarify-

He didn't contact me re: his therapy. Like I said, We only have direct contact about the divorce matters.

Usually polite and civil.

His last text-rage was Feb 2. I didn't reply much and he faded out, finally.

He was trying to INSIST that I seek counseling-his "deal" was that I have 3 sessions alone and MAYBE he'd go to the fourth with me. Controlling to the Nth degree. Still?    I just let him ramble, didn't reply and finally he quit trying.

I am not going to let him bully and badger me via text to DO anything!

A mutual friend told me that he was going-her HUSBAND is his close friend. She and I became close over the past few years.

I'm sure he wanted the info to leak. He could have kept it completely private if he wanted to, and NOT told anyone!

But he needs attention and N supply-so he must share. Must. Share. All.

GL

[GreenMango]

GL how is everything coming together with the rebuilding part for you?

I like the creative action part of the detachment lesson... .  it gave me something that were tangible to focus on.

How's your place?  Any plans coming up?

[gina louise]

I am going to school for an aggressive new career path (Paralegal/Legal Assistant). I am the typical starving student. LOL

I am getting A's so far-about a month into it. We have had one big exam and one quiz that "counted".

The rest was practice.

I can't spend money aside from bills and food. So no big plans. I spend time with my kids and grand kids-every day, every week. Study a lot. Worry about money a little.  Still trying to find something PT I can do while I finish school but nobody is hiring.

I sold my real gold jewelry to put money in the bank. It was stuff I would never wear in a million years.

That's MY life as a single person, of a certain age.

D won't be final til May. April at the earliest.

   

but that's OK. I'm good.


GL

[GreenMango]

Congratulations on going back to school, that is exciting.  I hope you are proud of yourself -  that is an accomplishment. 

It sounds like you are making smart choices right now with regards to your future... .  that says a lot.

It's difficult rebuilding, it's taken me a year and half to get my ducks in a row.  It also is pretty exciting - you get to move towards a life you want. 

Would love to hear more about all these things when you have time.

[gina louise]

GM, thank you,

it's exhilarating for me to finally be in charge of my own choices. Scary, in a good way.  

H began texting me just yesterday telling me that he's seeing a "shrink" as he puts it, and why.

he said he's feeling too much Up n Down, and wants to feel better. He admitted that NA and AA are good-but can't fix everything. that's huge from him.

said a lot of good stuff too.

Oh-in between blaming and accusing me of ruining everything!

he will NOT call-just text and e-mail. I guess that way he controls the conversation to an extent.

I feel like I am well into a recovery mode-and perhaps he feels he's not. Even though he claims to be.

He was hot and cold and split me black then white in one day of text/e-mail.

He missed me SO much... .  but then- truly, I was a horrible partner who didn't contribute. Ever.  

He wanted a list of concessions from me (entitlement!) about what I could have done "better!"

Lord.

I am aware of how the disorder affects him now. So I validated  mildly when I could and we did not fight. I just feel kinda sad-that my "old" HUSBAND was a phantom guy... .  and the "new" HUSBAND is all over the place mentally.

GL

[seeking balance]

GM, thank you,

it's exhilarating for me to finally be in charge of my own choices. Scary, in a good way.  

H began texting me just yesterday telling me that he's seeing a *shrink* as he puts it, and why.

he said he's feeling too much Up n Down, and wants to feel better. He admitted that NA and AA are good-but can't fix everything. that's huge from him.

said a lot of good stuff too.

Oh-in between blaming and accusing me of ruining everything!

he will NOT call-just text and e-mail. I guess that way he controls the conversation to an extent.

I feel like I am well into a recovery mode-and perhaps he feels he's not. Even though he claims to be.

He was hot and cold and split me black then white in one day of text/e-mail.

He missed me SO much... .  but then- truly, I was a horrible partner who didn't contribute. Ever.  

He wanted a list of concessions from me (entitlement!) about what I could have done *better!*

Lord.

I am aware of how the disorder affects him now. So I validated  mildly when I could and we did not fight. I just feel kinda sad-that my *old* H was a phantom guy... .  and the *new* H is all over the place mentally.

GL

GL,

I think GM's post was looking forward to hearing about your process. We certainly know a lot about what you claim your H thinks and feels (see bolded above)... .  why not put that effort into your own feelings?

Peace,

SB

[gina louise]

UM, I started this thread about my stbxH seeing a shrink when that was my One condition for working on the marriage.

Him admitting it to me just yesterday, was an update.

I post about myself on the Personal Inventory board more.

I can read!

GL

[seeking balance]

Him admitting it to me just yesterday, was an update.

point taken - this was an update