detaching & acceptance

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I had a little bit of a light bulb moment last night; while ruminating, of course.  I've been in the anger stage for a few weeks now, but the last 2-3 days I've started feeling more sadness.  I think I'm about to get into the grieving/ acceptance phase.  What occurred to me last night is that, for me at least, it's not just about accepting the relationship is over.  I think I'm actually doing ok with that.  What I seem to be struggling more with is accepting the relationship was never what I believed it to be.  I'm having trouble accepting I was never loved in a true, adult, intimate way by this woman.  I know it's true because she could change her mind at the drop of the hat, and that isn't real love.  But it's hard to accept it... .    What may be even more difficult is accepting that I never really loved her in that way either.  There's no doubt I had some incredibly strong feelings, which I referred to as "love like I've never felt", but it wasn't true, adult, intimate love.  I'm 37 years old.  Realizing these things about a relationship I put so much into is making feel naive and ignorant.  How could I not see something in 2.5 years that I now see so plainly?  I pride myself on logic, reason and intuition.  Sometimes I even rely on these things too much.  But in this relationship, I abandoned those skills and followed my heart in chasing a love that didn't even exist.   That's hard to accept.  

sunrising

[sunrising]

I had a little bit of a light bulb moment last night; while ruminating, of course.  I've been in the anger stage for a few weeks now, but the last 2-3 days I've started feeling more sadness.  I think I'm about to get into the grieving/ acceptance phase.  What occurred to me last night is that, for me at least, it's not just about accepting the relationship is over.  I think I'm actually doing ok with that.  What I seem to be struggling more with is accepting the relationship was never what I believed it to be.  I'm having trouble accepting I was never loved in a true, adult, intimate way by this woman.  I know it's true because she could change her mind at the drop of the hat, and that isn't real love.  But it's hard to accept it... .    What may be even more difficult is accepting that I never really loved her in that way either.  There's no doubt I had some incredibly strong feelings, which I referred to as "love like I've never felt", but it wasn't true, adult, intimate love.  I'm 37 years old.  Realizing these things about a relationship I put so much into is making feel naive and ignorant.  How could I not see something in 2.5 years that I now see so plainly?  I pride myself on logic, reason and intuition.  Sometimes I even rely on these things too much.  But in this relationship, I abandoned those skills and followed my heart in chasing a love that didn't even exist.   That's hard to accept.  

sunrising

[Apple white]

It has taken me almost 14years and I am just beginning to realise all the red flags that I chose to ignore.  Sometimes it seems surreal to have 'loved' someone one so intensely, someone who didn't really exist.  I agree is is very hard to accept.

[eclipsedbythemoon]

I had a little bit of a light bulb moment last night; while ruminating, of course.  I've been in the anger stage for a few weeks now, but the last 2-3 days I've started feeling more sadness.  I think I'm about to get into the grieving/ acceptance phase.  What occurred to me last night is that, for me at least, it's not just about accepting the relationship is over.  I think I'm actually doing ok with that.  What I seem to be struggling more with is accepting the relationship was never what I believed it to be.  I'm having trouble accepting I was never loved in a true, adult, intimate way by this woman.  I know it's true because she could change her mind at the drop of the hat, and that isn't real love.  But it's hard to accept it... .    What may be even more difficult is accepting that I never really loved her in that way either.  There's no doubt I had some incredibly strong feelings, which I referred to as "love like I've never felt", but it wasn't true, adult, intimate love.  I'm 37 years old.  Realizing these things about a relationship I put so much into is making feel naive and ignorant.  How could I not see something in 2.5 years that I now see so plainly?  I pride myself on logic, reason and intuition.  Sometimes I even rely on these things too much.  But in this relationship, I abandoned those skills and followed my heart in chasing a love that didn't even exist.   That's hard to accept. 

I think I'm at the same stage as you. At first right after the breakup it was mainly anger and hate towards her for abandoning me so carelessly... .  now the anger has turned to sadness and frustration but it is so much harder to deal with.

At least with the anger you feel empowered somewhat and still have a bit of mental strength left but now I feel so weak and helpless it's so depressing.

[hithere]

You were in love with the idea of true love and BPD's mirror exactly that fantasy.  Don't beat yourself up, just accept that it happened and know better next time.

Be thankful you did not waste a life-time with this person, your chance for happiness is just around the corner!

[sunrising]

Be thankful you did not waste a life-time with this person, your chance for happiness is just around the corner!

Thanks, hi there... .    My father, a retired counselor himself, said nearly the same thing to me.  He said, "You don’t know how glad I am that you did not enter into a long-term commitment with xxxxxx.  You would have worn yourself out (literally and figuratively) working to make it a good relationship. It would have been an impossible task, even for you."

I am really looking forward to having that kind of clarity.  I'm having moments of it now, when I could see myself giving a friend the exact advice you and my dad have given me.  In those moments of clarity, I am completely amazed that I let myself get into this situation. 

[Cumulus]

Accepting that the relationship was never what I believed it to be. Hand up here sunrising. Then it was so just what was it and did it have any meaning. Then it was why was I OK with settling for that. Then it was accepting it for what it was. Still working on that

[seeking balance]

I had a little bit of a light bulb moment last night; while ruminating, of course.  I've been in the anger stage for a few weeks now, but the last 2-3 days I've started feeling more sadness.  I think I'm about to get into the grieving/ acceptance phase.  What occurred to me last night is that, for me at least, it's not just about accepting the relationship is over.  I think I'm actually doing ok with that.  What I seem to be struggling more with is accepting the relationship was never what I believed it to be.  I'm having trouble accepting I was never loved in a true, adult, intimate way by this woman.  I know it's true because she could change her mind at the drop of the hat, and that isn't real love.  But it's hard to accept it... .    What may be even more difficult is accepting that I never really loved her in that way either.  There's no doubt I had some incredibly strong feelings, which I referred to as "love like I've never felt", but it wasn't true, adult, intimate love.  I'm 37 years old.  Realizing these things about a relationship I put so much into is making feel naive and ignorant.  How could I not see something in 2.5 years that I now see so plainly?  I pride myself on logic, reason and intuition.  Sometimes I even rely on these things too much.  But in this relationship, I abandoned those skills and followed my heart in chasing a love that didn't even exist.   That's hard to accept. 

I had this same realization at one point and posted about it at the time.   What I came to accept was that it was all real for me - the feelings, commitments - I was real.

My ex wanted it to be real, but was not capable due to the BPD traits.

I too use logic and like that trait of mine - there is nothing logical about this disorder - when we are in it, we do the best we can with the information we have.

Keep processing - it is ok to feel sad and silly... .  but be kind to yourself, the emotions & our behaviors are all real and consistent for us - and that is a good thing.

[sunrising]

I had this same realization at one point and posted about it at the time.   What I came to accept was that it was all real for me - the feelings, commitments - I was real.

My ex wanted it to be real, but was not capable due to the BPD traits.

I too use logic and like that trait of mine - there is nothing logical about this disorder - when we are in it, we do the best we can with the information we have.

Keep processing - it is ok to feel sad and silly... .  but be kind to yourself, the emotions & our behaviors are all real and consistent for us - and that is a good thing.

Thank you, seeking balance.  I definitely need to remember to be kind to myself.  Exercise seems to help when I can make myself do it.   

As a logical person, I can only imagine how frustrating a relationship, and it's seemingly mysterious demise, must have been with a pwBPD.  I can't tell you how many times I tried to "reason" with her, to absolutely no avail.  I was regularly saying things like "You are the only person who doesn't think I'm madly in love with you" when she was being insecure and "This makes absolutely no sense" when she was being generally crazy by severely over-reacting to things which hadn't even occurred in reality.  I even said in couples therapy one time, "She has level 10 reactions to incidents which would warrant a level 1 reaction IF they actually happened.  They're not even happening and I'm receiving level 10 reactions".  I now know that by using that type of logic I might has well have been speaking a foreign language. 

[just me.]

I pride myself on logic, reason and intuition.  Sometimes I even rely on these things too much.  But in this relationship, I abandoned those skills and followed my heart in chasing a love that didn't even exist.   That's hard to accept. 

I have always been a very logical person as well.  In a way, I think that can actually make some of us more likely to stay and try to make it work.  In my case, I kept realizing that, logically, this marriage really should work:  There was this beautiful woman that I loved, and we shared everything in the world in common, and we saw everything the same way, and we had kids, and we were married, and she spent a good portion of the time reiterating to me how much she utterly adored me.  How could I possibly conclude there was any logical answer to all of this other than that we were meant to be together forever and ever?

The constant emotional turmoil and misery always made me feel like there was just some puzzle to all of this that I hadn't quite solved, but I always convinced myself that I'd eventually figure it out.  I'd eventually figure out how to make it all work just as beautifully as it seemed like it logically should.  I'm good at logic puzzles... .  and I'm good at figuring things out.  This one was an extremely difficult, confusing, and high-stakes puzzle... .  but I kept really believing that I could eventually figure it out.  I'd eventually figure out how to make her happy... .  how to make us all happy.

The piece I was missing from that puzzle, though, was that the rules would simply never, ever stop changing.  And the thing I didn't realize was that the logic puzzle I was faced with actually contained no real logic at all.  And that's a difficult thing for a logical person to accept, I think.

You shouldn't beat yourself up.  BPD is a serious mental illness, and to become entangled (with your mind and your heart) in their world is an extremely confusing thing.  It doesn't sound to me like you necessarily "abandoned" your skills... .  you just encountered something that you didn't yet have the tools to fully understand.  You can now learn from this and grow stronger and smarter... .  and it seems like you will.

[seeking balance]

Thank you, seeking balance.  I definitely need to remember to be kind to myself.  Exercise seems to help when I can make myself do it.   

As a logical person, I can only imagine how frustrating a relationship, and it's seemingly mysterious demise, must have been with a pwBPD.  I can't tell you how many times I tried to "reason" with her, to absolutely no avail.  I was regularly saying things like "You are the only person who doesn't think I'm madly in love with you" when she was being insecure and "This makes absolutely no sense" when she was being generally crazy by severely over-reacting to things which hadn't even occurred in reality.  I even said in couples therapy one time, "She has level 10 reactions to incidents which would warrant a level 1 reaction IF they actually happened.  They're not even happening and I'm receiving level 10 reactions".  I now know that by using that type of logic I might has well have been speaking a foreign language. 

Couples therapy and BPD - fun times, huh?

I recall just sitting there saying, "I just don't understand"... .  again, trying to be logical.

As I begin to really understand the disorder and the communication tools necessary, I then had to accept my natural way of operating in the world is about as opposite as you can get for a pwBPD.  Naturally to validate emotions rather than use logic to explain was like learning Chinese for me.

I can now say that I am not a good fit to be a partner for a pwBPD - there are people naturally more suited than me... .  and that is ok these days!

[sunrising]

Couples therapy and BPD - fun times, huh?

I recall just sitting there saying, "I just don't understand"... .  again, trying to be logical.

As I begin to really understand the disorder and the communication tools necessary, I then had to accept my natural way of operating in the world is about as opposite as you can get for a pwBPD.  Naturally to validate emotions rather than use logic to explain was like learning Chinese for me.

I can now say that I am not a good fit to be a partner for a pwBPD - there are people naturally more suited than me... .  and that is ok these days!

Yea, the couples therapy was confusing the vast majority of the time.  I don't feel like my ex ever got any better internally, maybe she just started ACTING a little better when she could so as to make it seem we were "getting better".  Our therapist told me AFTER we split that she knew my ex has BPD, but our therapist (still my therapist) isn't a BPD specialist so she only mentioned "boundaries" to me seemingly somewhat casually.  Only after we split and I found this board (my ex was officially diagnosed BPD) did I learn the importance of boundaries and validating.  I don't consider myself to be particularly invalidating, but I certainly never focused on it like I would knowing what I know now.  Like you though, I am far too logical and reasonable to get along well with someone so detached from reality.  It would drive me crazy.  Or has it already?... .   

[mango_flower]

It has taken me almost 14years and I am just beginning to realise all the red flags that I chose to ignore.  Sometimes it seems surreal to have 'loved' someone one so intensely, someone who didn't really exist.  I agree is is very hard to accept.

This hit home for me.  Finding it hard to accept that you loved somebody SO much, yet you only loved the image of who they projected they were. It's scary.

[almost789]

Yeah, I still cant believe it wasnt real. I have not trully accepted it wasnt real. I still believe that it was real, but it was fleeting due to the splitting.

[WillyD]

BPD is a serious mental illness, and to become entangled (with your mind and your heart) in their world is an extremely confusing thing.  It doesn't sound to me like you necessarily "abandoned" your skills... .  you just encountered something that you didn't yet have the tools to fully understand.  You can now learn from this and grow stronger and smarter... .  and it seems like you will.

I'm really impressed by the intelligence and insight of so many people on these message boards. Quotes like this have been helping me make sense of the "Alice in Wonderland" I entered into over 3 years years ago and have been out of now for a mere 53 days (but who's counting?)  

[trouble11]

I can now say that I am not a good fit to be a partner for a pwBPD - there are people naturally more suited than me... .  and that is ok these days!

I too, know myself well enough to know that I would also not be a good fit.  I'm way too logical and don't like to feel like I must filter what I say.  I had a nightmare one night that ex BPD was here and I was trying to validate.  I woke up in a cold sweat.  It was awful.

[atcrossroads]

It has taken me almost 14years and I am just beginning to realise all the red flags that I chose to ignore.  Sometimes it seems surreal to have 'loved' someone one so intensely, someone who didn't really exist.  I agree is is very hard to accept.

This hit home for me.  Finding it hard to accept that you loved somebody SO much, yet you only loved the image of who they projected they were. It's scary.

I agree with all that's been said on the thread (10 years + for me), but here is what I'm worried about... .  If I thought my r/s WAS love, how am I ever going to know what real love is?  Or find it?  

[bb12]

Great thread. And yes - I am at the same stage.

Mine feels more like a morbid curiosity than anger or depression. Like you sunrising, I am perhaps too logical and have had to learn to feel my way through the many ups and downs of this recovery. Unlike you though, I am not sure I ever considered grieving the idea that it never was what i thought. And it's a really good point!

I think I am perhaps still in denial or bargaining with that part of it all... .  that perhaps two distinct sets of processing have occurred concurrently. I have processed the bits that were real... .  the physical absence. But I have perhaps not really explored the possibility that the emotional stuff was all a lie.

When I do, I can't quite reconcile how someone would get two trains and a bus to see me twice a week for 2 years, without being committed to the r/ship.

A pwBPD never says sorry and never says goodbye (as someone on here wrote yesterday) and I think that is very powerful. The object constancy element of their damage is the part that makes all of it seems so much like a lie and that it never really was what we thought.

They can move on so fast and attach so strongly to the new, that it makes a lie or a never was of what we had

Again though, I can disappear up my own butt with the endless ruminations, possibilities and the continual application of logic to solving this problem.

Real or not, the only way to detach is to not yearn for answers - because there just aren't any

BB12

[sunrising]

I pride myself on logic, reason and intuition.  Sometimes I even rely on these things too much.  But in this relationship, I abandoned those skills and followed my heart in chasing a love that didn't even exist.   That's hard to accept. 

I have always been a very logical person as well.  In a way, I think that can actually make some of us more likely to stay and try to make it work.  In my case, I kept realizing that, logically, this marriage really should work:  There was this beautiful woman that I loved, and we shared everything in the world in common, and we saw everything the same way, and we had kids, and we were married, and she spent a good portion of the time reiterating to me how much she utterly adored me.  How could I possibly conclude there was any logical answer to all of this other than that we were meant to be together forever and ever?

The constant emotional turmoil and misery always made me feel like there was just some puzzle to all of this that I hadn't quite solved, but I always convinced myself that I'd eventually figure it out.  I'd eventually figure out how to make it all work just as beautifully as it seemed like it logically should.  I'm good at logic puzzles... .  and I'm good at figuring things out.  This one was an extremely difficult, confusing, and high-stakes puzzle... .  but I kept really believing that I could eventually figure it out.  I'd eventually figure out how to make her happy... .  how to make us all happy.

The piece I was missing from that puzzle, though, was that the rules would simply never, ever stop changing.  And the thing I didn't realize was that the logic puzzle I was faced with actually contained no real logic at all.  And that's a difficult thing for a logical person to accept, I think.

You shouldn't beat yourself up.  BPD is a serious mental illness, and to become entangled (with your mind and your heart) in their world is an extremely confusing thing.  It doesn't sound to me like you necessarily "abandoned" your skills... .  you just encountered something that you didn't yet have the tools to fully understand.  You can now learn from this and grow stronger and smarter... .  and it seems like you will.

Justme, you just blew me away.  I could have never communicated what happened with me as well as you just did; mostly because I don't think I fully realized it until you put it so eloquently.   Before what you wrote, my therapist and I were just saying I may have a little bit of a "Jesus" issue (aka a "fixer" and that I probably subconsciously viewed the relationship as a challenge.   Something I enjoy and could fix... .   What you said is much more insightful.  Thank you.

[Discarded26]

You were in love with the idea of true love and BPD's mirror exactly that fantasy.  Don't beat yourself up, just accept that it happened and know better next time.

Be thankful you did not waste a life-time with this person, your chance for happiness is just around the corner!

That's so true. Just shame it took so long to find that out

[cal644]

That was and still is the hardest thing for me to accept.  That She never really loved me in a healthy way (I always knew that the love wasn't what I wanted)  But I always lied to myself and said this is the best she can love because of her past - but I have enough love for the both of us.  But it hurts like hell knowing that the "true love" was never there.

[Discarded26]

That was and still is the hardest thing for me to accept.  That She never really loved me in a healthy way (I always knew that the love wasn't what I wanted)  But I always lied to myself and said this is the best she can love because of her past - but I have enough love for the both of us.  But it hurts like hell knowing that the "true love" was never there.

I hear you.

Couldn't bare for me to be out of his life again. Yet he abandoned me

[SurvivedLove]

Sometimes it seems surreal to have 'loved' someone one so intensely, someone who didn't really exist.  I agree is is very hard to accept.

I guess I've been pretty lucky, getting to this conclusion as fast as I did. It took me 4 months to accept and mourn after I got discarded. My detachment started when I realized that the man I fell in love with, the man I loved so much I'd have done anything for him, he didn't really exist.

It took me another 3 months to actually cut off all contact with him and now, 2 months later, he still isn't able to accept that or respect it at all. Which only cements my decision and my knowledge even further: he's dangerous to my emotional health, which renders even a friendship impossible. I am OK with leaving it all behind, so I can find happiness elsewhere.

[WillyD]

Sometimes it seems surreal to have 'loved' someone one so intensely, someone who didn't really exist.

I understand how people can "feel" this way but believe me they do exist, both physically and emotionally.

It's just that we believe we are dealing with an "adult". Our SO looks, acts (in many ways), has experiences, and possesses other traits that make them appear to be an adult to us and the world around them. However, they have the emotional capacity of a small child. Until we come to that realization, we attempt to communicate with them as an adult. And as we all know it just doesn't work, especially when emotions are running high.

[sunrising]

I understand how people can "feel" this way but believe me they do exist, both physically and emotionally.

It's just that we believe we are dealing with an "adult". Our SO looks, acts (in many ways), has experiences, and possesses other traits that make them appear to be an adult to us and the world around them. However, they have the emotional capacity of a small child. Until we come to that realization, we attempt to communicate with them as an adult. And as we all know it just doesn't work, especially when emotions are running high.

That's a very good point.  I've been using the "she didn't exist" too.  I suppose that's a little unfair and demeaning.   What I have meant by it is the person I thought I loved doesn't exist.  There is only an emotional child, which I would never attempt to love as an adult.  Almost sounds creepy when I sum it up that way now. I thought I was madly in love with and had an adult relationship with a 3 year old.  I might stick with "she didn't exist". 

[WillyD]

Almost sounds creepy when I sum it up that way now. I thought I was madly in love with and had an adult relationship with a 3 year old.  I might stick with "she didn't exist". 

That good a good laugh out of me! Good one 

I think as we come to terms with the fact that we were in love with a 3 year old, we will find it much easier to detach... .  

[sunrising]

That good a good laugh out of me! Good one 

I think as we come to terms with the fact that we were in love with a 3 year old, we will find it much easier to detach... .  

I USED to be funny on pretty much an every day basis.  People quite regularly referred to me as "the funniest guy I know".  Then I entered BPD land, where jokes demolish eggshells, and I stopped being nearly as funny.  As I'm starting to feel a HINT of the joy which comes from being out of BPD land, I have an urge to go out into public and be really sarcastic towards complete strangers to make up for lost time.  I hope I do better with that than I did following my therapist's advice to "not get into any 1-on-1 situations with a woman for a while". 

I really appreciate your thought about the fact that we were in love with a 3 year old making it easier to detach.  Just sitting here reading it again is making it easier for me (at least at the moment).  Would having a t-shirt made which reads "I fell madly in love with an emotional toddler" and wearing it every day be inappropriate?

[WillyD]

Would having a t-shirt made which reads "I fell madly in love with an emotional toddler" and wearing it every day be inappropriate?

I think a lot of people would "get it", even if they aren't familiar with BPD?

All BPDs are emotional toddlers, but all emotional toddlers are not BPD.

[sunrising]

I think a lot of people would "get it", even if they aren't familiar with BPD?

All BPDs are emotional toddlers, but all emotional toddlers are not BPD.

I'm not sure how long the moderators will let jokes go on in this thread, but I would enjoy some t-shirt ideas this afternoon.

"My exwBPD hates me and I have no idea why.  Or Does she?... .  "

"Your 3 year old is more mature than my exwBPD"

"Have you seen my exwBPD?  She's either getting my name tattooed on her breasts or sleeping with someone else"

[WillyD]

"Never contact me again ... .  but if you don't return my next call in 1 minute, I'm going to leave 30 consecutive five minute voice mail messages on your phone"

[sunrising]

"Never contact me again ... .  but if you don't return my next call in 1 minute, I'm going to leave 30 consecutive five minute voice mail messages on your phone"

Ohhh, that's good.  A bit long for a t-shirt, but good... .  

"Have your 3 year old call my exwBPD"

"She loves me, she loves me not, she loves me, she loves me not... .    It's not just for daisies"

"If you think I'm crazy, you should meet my exwBPD"