Understand projection

[Chosen]

I know the term and what it is supposed to mean, but what is it in real life?  And how does it relate to "feelings = facts"?

Example:

H: You will leave me when something goes wrong, but I sacrifice everything for you.

From this, I know he is fearing I will leave him, perhaps feeling insecure (because feelings = facts, him feeling insecure = I will certainly leave him).  Is there any projection in there?

What about when he asks me "why do you hate me?" (he has asked me a lot of times before).   Does that mean he hates me or something? 

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[daze]

When he says you will leave him, maybe he means he would leave him if he were you?

Rather than him hating you, maybe he is hating himself? 

I don't know, projection is confusing.  And interesting.  Hopefully someone with a better grasp will pipe up. 

[Determined1]

In this case, I think that he is projecting how he feels about himself onto you. In other words, he hates himself but is also convinced that you hate him too based on how he thinks/feels about himself.

[waverider]

H: You will leave me when something goes wrong, but I sacrifice everything for you.

That is his thought, and he is stating it as a fact that it must be your thought. Following it up with an accusation that you are unreasonable. A follow through projection if you like. In one sentence he paints you as the unfair aggressor and him as the undeserved victim

What about when he asks me "why do you hate me?" (he has asked me a lot of times before).   :)oes that mean he hates me or something? 

That means he hates himself, but again stating it as fact that you hate him. passing responsibility for that thought on to you. he should be asking "why do I hate myself"

[Rockylove]

When my bf had his first few rages, I was crushed by the things he said to me, but one rage made me realize that it wasn't ME that he was angry at.  It was a huge What the heck moment and I thought he isn't even talking to me!  Nothing about what he was raging about had anything to do with me... .  although he was cussing me out, it was as though he was talking to or about someone else.  I began thinking about what he was spewing in such anger and it was really more of what he does or doesn't do!  Once I recognized that he was really angry at himself, it made the barrage of insults much easier to swallow (most times).  I also noticed that it's the times when he's feeling most insecure that he will lash out at me. 

I've stopped reacting to his insults for the most part, but unless I remove myself from the line of fire (physically leave the room or the house) he'll continue to sling the hash until he's pushed a button that is sure to get the response he's looking for.  He wants me to loose my cool and I think it's mostly because he's lost his and doesn't want to be the only schmuck~~misery loves company! 

This is all so complicated and yet very simple.  He feels horrible so he wants me to feel horrible too.  I get that... .  when he's got my back up to the wall throwing insults at me, I'd like nothing better than to have him feel my pain too~~but he never will~~he's in too much pain of his own.

[Chosen]

The worst, worst thing about projection is that sometimes it has a grain of truth, what they are saying, so it does seem they're talking about us. 

Actually, when you're verbally attacked, it's not easy to think logically and there's no use trying to process everything.  So what I do is just keep on reminding myself on the inside that it's not about me, it's not about me, and try not to analyse it.

[waverider]

The worst, worst thing about projection is that sometimes it has a grain of truth, what they are saying, so it does seem they're talking about us. 

Actually, when you're verbally attacked, it's not easy to think logically and there's no use trying to process everything.  So what I do is just keep on reminding myself on the inside that it's not about me, it's not about me, and try not to analyse it.

Best way to deal with projection is to not react in the moment, as it usually contains a hidden hook to catch your knee jerk reaction

[artman.1]

I know the term and what it is supposed to mean, but what is it in real life?  And how does it relate to "feelings = facts"?

Chosen,     There is a really good workshop on Projection on this bpdfamily.com site.  Just go up to the search box and type in Projection and click search.  You will find the workshop there.

Art

[Cloudy Days]

The main projections that I have picked up on when my husband Rages are the ones that my jaw about falls off.   For instance, he's told me that I only want him to use him and his mother. Ok first of all I can't for the life of me figure out what I would be using him for. But I could come up with a million things he uses me for. Then he told me I was the most selfish person he's ever met. I seen this one a mile away, I know he was talking about himself. I wish I could remember what the fight was about. It was something along the lines of me not doing something right for him.

The ones I have a hard time dealing with are the ones where he accuses me of being such a terrible human being. I know he has cheated on people in his past, so I'm thinking that since he would do those things he assumes I am doing those things? Or is it just him splitting me?

[Grey Kitty]

Here is a link to the workshop on projection

One of my thoughts on it or something related to it is what my wife used to do:

She would use projection (and other things) to push my buttons. I would usually start to get pissed after a while, and finally I would start yelling at her.

One thing that was going on with her was that she was really afraid of anger, and nearly unable to express it. (Old FOO issues--her mother was an alcoholic that raged at everyone in the family) So her "safe" technique to experience anger was to prod me into being angry AT her.

Projection is taking something you do not want to address in yourself and placing it on someone else. I think when people do it, they actually believe it.

[waverider]

The full on projections in the middle of conflict are obvious. It is the subtle everyday ones that slip past and often end up triangulating people's opinions about a third party, colleagues, family and particularly inlaws can all be set against each other without really understanding why.

If they are are projecting onto you about you it is obvious, as you know the truth. If they are projecting onto a third party it is not so.

[Chosen]

Yeah I've read the workshop again and again... .  yet it still baffles me sometimes.

Like when he's raging he would say I'm selfish, using him and his family etc (yeah the usual stuff a lot of you have to hear too  ), and then he'll say "and I'm sacrificial and I would never think of using you the way you use me". 

So is it supposed to mean he thinks he is selfish and is using me, and is projecting these thoughts on me?  Or it means he's afraid of being seen as a selfish person who uses his wife?  The second one seems to make much more sense to me, as he always thinks of how people would see him. 

[Grey Kitty]

Yeah I've read the workshop again and again... .  yet it still baffles me sometimes.

So is it supposed to mean he thinks he is selfish and is using me, and is projecting these thoughts on me? 

If he knows he's doing it, it is called lying. If he doesn't know he's doing it, it is called projection. (Even if he figures himself out after the fact, it still was projection at the time) Does that help you understand it?

Also, not everything coming out of his mouth has to be projection, even if the sentence before and the one after it both were. Disordered people say all kinds of wacky stuff!

[waverider]

Projection tends to be proactive.

Desperate reactive denial type statements are generally not projected thoughts simply part of the throwing everything at you that they think will get to you (kitchen sinking). As GK says sometimes they are just lying their butt off just to avoid responsibility

[doubleAries]

In some basic way, projection is not that hard to understand. For example, have you ever said to anyone "you make me so mad!" or "you make me so happy!" ?

These are very basic forms of projection. Attributing your feelings to someone else. Obviously, these are mild examples that don't usually cause a lot of trouble... .  but if you follow them through, they can cause problems--if someone else is to blame for your anger, then it is their responsibility to fix it, right? If someone else is the cause of your happiness, that's a pretty heavy burden on them to make sure you stay that way, isn't it?

Obviously, projection can become even more extreme. It's not often so blatant that the person is outright saying something so clearly about themselves. It's usually about undesirable emotions or attributes, that the person simply doesn't want to take responsibility for. Even in the simple examples above, that's pretty clear. It's not easy to take responsibility for our own anger OR happiness. It seems easier to pass it off to someone else.

And this certainly can become the basis for co-dependency. It's your responsibility to make me happy, and my responsibility to make you happy. OK, who goes first?

Often we do things for someone else to make them happy that are things that would make us happy. And if it isn't what actually makes them happy, then resentment (on both sides) begins to form.

This wikipedia link defines projection pretty well www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection