it was her looks, that's about it

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

i have to be honest here, and i'm wondering if anyone else feels the same: the biggest reason i feel at a loss from my past relationship is because of her looks. yup, sounds shallow i know, but this is really all that i can think of now why i would put any value on this person. 

it's been over a year since we broke up, about 4 months since last contact. since breaking up i dated a little and now have been in a relationship for about 6 months with someone new. the sex (at one time at least) was great with the ex, but honestly i can say it's *better* with my new gf. also, i had a 4 yr r/s with my exBPDgf, lived together for 18 months, so please don't think i'm saying our whole relationship was based on looks--i'm not at all into "trophy wives" or fake relationships, etc. there was a lot of love in those 4 yrs and having a deep connection and mutual respect are a requirement for me in a partner. it was mutual respect why i felt the need to end it after all.

but yeah, after a lot of thought and reflection i've boiled it down to this for myself. i just was really attracted to this person, b/c i know i can find caring and fun love with other women, i know i can have great sex, i have great friends, i'm in a much better position career-wise and financially than my ex. but she was a looker.

so with this knowledge at least i'm able to look at one hard truth and understand this part of myself. it made me feel good to walk into any room, party or gathering and be holding hands with this person. i felt at ease when i'd be out alone or out with my friends, meet other really attractive women and know that i had someone even more attractive at home. on the bad side i really have some thinking to do about my own ego, on a really good note i feel really solid that i'm not a cheater or a liar, i can be happy with one woman and that's good to know. i dunno if others relate to this in any way but maybe so?

[goldylamont]

i have to be honest here, and i'm wondering if anyone else feels the same: the biggest reason i feel at a loss from my past relationship is because of her looks. yup, sounds shallow i know, but this is really all that i can think of now why i would put any value on this person. 

it's been over a year since we broke up, about 4 months since last contact. since breaking up i dated a little and now have been in a relationship for about 6 months with someone new. the sex (at one time at least) was great with the ex, but honestly i can say it's *better* with my new gf. also, i had a 4 yr r/s with my exBPDgf, lived together for 18 months, so please don't think i'm saying our whole relationship was based on looks--i'm not at all into "trophy wives" or fake relationships, etc. there was a lot of love in those 4 yrs and having a deep connection and mutual respect are a requirement for me in a partner. it was mutual respect why i felt the need to end it after all.

but yeah, after a lot of thought and reflection i've boiled it down to this for myself. i just was really attracted to this person, b/c i know i can find caring and fun love with other women, i know i can have great sex, i have great friends, i'm in a much better position career-wise and financially than my ex. but she was a looker.

so with this knowledge at least i'm able to look at one hard truth and understand this part of myself. it made me feel good to walk into any room, party or gathering and be holding hands with this person. i felt at ease when i'd be out alone or out with my friends, meet other really attractive women and know that i had someone even more attractive at home. on the bad side i really have some thinking to do about my own ego, on a really good note i feel really solid that i'm not a cheater or a liar, i can be happy with one woman and that's good to know. i dunno if others relate to this in any way but maybe so?

[glacier_glider]

I have my take on that. I've been thinking about posting regarding this (more on sexual side) but have not been ready yet.

Yes, the exBPD was a great looking woman but not the best looking in my life. She would probably make top 10, not top 5. But she is beautiful. I am lucky to have had been close with "LA 8s and 9s". I am sorry for the usage of these rude terms, just don't find any better way of describing.

It helps understanding that there have been more beautiful women in my life who were not affected by BPD. It helps a lot!

[sunrising]

I can relate.  I'm sure others can too.   As a matter of fact, I have a theory that BPD is more common in physically attractive people (particularly women).   My theory is based only on my own experience and hearing so many others talk about how attractive their BPD significant other is/was.   Reality could directly contrast my theory and my theory would be hard to "prove" since physical attraction is highly subjective, but my theory is that it could be easier for a physically attractive person to develop BPD traits.  Why do I think this?  Especially in the case of physically attractive young girls, there can often be a dis-incentive to develop a real personality and sense of self.  It seems to me that the focus of so many young girls is to "find a good man".  If they can get about any man they want with their looks alone, why develop a true personality and sense of self?   In the case of my exwBPD, I feel very certain this phenomenon occurred.   She was always a "pretty little girl" (still is) and I am certain her mother emphasized the importance of this over other things.  My ex was an only child, an only grandchild, and her grandparents live 30 yards behind her parents.  So basically, she was the pretty little princess and center of everyone's attention.   I can see how this led to BPD and how BPD could be more common in physically attractive people.  

[glacier_glider]

I've been thinking about this a lot.

Yes, they have to be attractive in order to keep us next to them and suffer through their crap.

BUT... .  

Are they really this attractive?

Or is it mostly our imagination?

I wish we could share some images so other could have their objective opinion.

The one that I was with (I refuse to use the word "mine" was a very attractive woman, yet when I went to see my family and friends (far away from where I live) only some of them where impressed (not even as much as I was) when saw the photos. And yet they were super impressed when they saw my previous women.

Here is an analogy. A mail-order bride has to be attractive, otherwise no one will be interested. Yet, a beautiful woman would not become a mail-order bride because she'd be able to establish her "happiness" locally.

Similarly, a BPD must be attractive in order to lure one of us and the rest is our imagination.

That does not mean that some of them are beautiful.

Anyway, I hope I was clear.  

[goldylamont]

hmm, that's an interesting take (and controversal too) sunrising. my exBPDgf wasn't the princess type at all, she really disliked these kinds of girls for some reason... .  but she's no dummy either. everyone knows their own attractiveness no matter what issues they're dealing with even though she was crazy attractive she was also really insecure about her looks, even when we were alone she only wore a nighty i bought her once b/c she always felt "fat", ludicrous, no words i said would make her feel better.

back to the what you were saying though sunrising i definitely wonder if there's a connection physical attractiveness and this disorder? i know this is really horrible to think about, but i've wondered if perhaps sometimes more physically attractive people are picked as children for abuse? i'm sure this couldn't really be quantified at this point but the thought has occurred.

[AllyCat7]

That's interesting and very common... .  especially in the relationship between a non male and BPD female. I think maybe because men are not usually given ego boosts regarding their looks (something that's done to women), it can be easy for a guy to not have confidence in his looks and maybe even be insecure about them, resulting in them trying to make up for it by seeking a more beautiful girlfriend or wife. Not just BPD women, but normal women, use this to manipulate their relationships with men all the time. It's so common. There's nothing wrong with wanting a beautiful girlfriend/wife, but it's definitely not worth it if the relationship is otherwise crappy.

With me, my last two bfs are BPD. Both are extremely attractive. One is a 9, I'd say, and the most recent is a 10. I'd say I'm probably an 8. It didn't bother me that the first was slightly hotter than me because he was faithful and reassuring. And I'm pretty confident in my appearance anyway. The second one, however, is a player. He knows he's hot and he uses it to reel in and keep lots of girls at his disposal (girls of all types--average-looking, hot, etc.) He's crazier than the first one, so I guess he needs his extra good looks to keep any girls around . I actually didn't like that he was so good-looking. We met online and at first I couldn't tell just how hot he was. I fell in love with his personality, though. He could be such a sweetheart, that one. Then when he came to visit me for the first time, I was thinking ":)amn, he's too cute. I don't know about this" . But it still didn't bother me because he seemed faithful at the time. After a while, though, after learning about the other girls, I realized he was just too hot and crazy for me to handle haha. I actually made a joke to my girlfriend the other day that he's a loose man and needs to be put in a burqa and locked away at home . I think, though, that I did a good job of not letting his looks affect me too much. I cut the cord based on his increasingly disrespectful behavior. And this is not the first time I've done it. He knows I don't sweat his looks the way some other girls do and I think he's thrown off by that. I care more about respect than looks. My first love was probably an 8 like me and I was super super attracted to him on all levels. He was a solid guy, too. I want someone like that again. He wouldn't even have to be an 8. He could be a 6 or 7. It's all good .

At the end of the day, though, we have to be confident in our own looks and the more we are, the less we will let the looks of mentally unstable people distract us from the madness of the rest of the relationship!

[AllyCat7]

I can relate.  I'm sure others can too.   As a matter of fact, I have a theory that BPD is more common in physically attractive people (particularly women).   My theory is based only on my own experience and hearing so many others talk about how attractive their BPD significant other is/was.   Reality could directly contrast my theory and my theory would be hard to "prove" since physical attraction is highly subjective, but my theory is that it could be easier for a physically attractive person to develop BPD traits.  Why do I think this?  Especially in the case of physically attractive young girls, there can often be a dis-incentive to develop a real personality and sense of self.  It seems to me that the focus of so many young girls is to "find a good man".  If they can get about any man they want with their looks alone, why develop a true personality and sense of self?   In the case of my exwBPD, I feel very certain this phenomenon occurred.   She was always a "pretty little girl" (still is) and I am certain her mother emphasized the importance of this over other things.  My ex was an only child, an only grandchild, and her grandparents live 30 yards behind her parents.  So basically, she was the pretty little princess and center of everyone's attention.   I can see how this led to BPD and how BPD could be more common in physically attractive people.  

Wow. Your theory sounds pretty spot on to me. Nice analysis!

[goldylamont]

... .  BUT... .  

Are they really this attractive?

Or is it mostly our imagination?... .  

this is true glacier_glider, i'm sure our imaginations color attractiveness and this should be looked at. i have to say though that in my case i think the level of attractiveness was very high without my coloring plenty of feedback on this...

[glacier_glider]

this is true glacier_glider, i'm sure our imaginations color attractiveness and this should be looked at. i have to say though that in my case i think the level of attractiveness was very high without my coloring plenty of feedback on this...

Let me PM you. Would be nice to hear your opinion.

[Vegasskydiver]

My exBPDbf was out of this world hot and yes, that is what I miss.  He was very faithful in fact it was him that always preached that there should never be a third party (friends of the opposite sex) in a relationship).  He made me cut ties with all my male friends, facebook, etc.  I didn't object because I felt that if it made him feel secure, it was worth it.  That was before I knew about BPD.  If I knew then that nothing was going to be enough, I would have ended the realtionship as soon as he started to try to control me.  But back to the topic, he was the best looking guy I had ever been with.  Tall, muscular, shaved head (I have an obcession with shaved heads)... .  he had the most beautiful hazel eyes... .  But I honestly believe that he didn't see it.  Yes he was NPD as well, but I don't think it had anything to do with his looks.  I felt so proud to be with him and I knew because he wa so strong no one would ever mess with me, when I was with him.  

Having said that, I would take a plain boyfriend anyday over handsome if we could share a healthy relationship any day of the week.  I think once you are stung by the BPD bee, it tends to make you look at the world through a differnt color glasses.  I put up with the contant having to explain myself, why I was doing what I was, what I was wearing to work, etc... .  No thank you.  I am still paying the price in gut wrenching pain and I have a feeling that this sting is going to hurt for a very long time!

[yaryu]

I know my exBPDgf is extremely physically attractive, only because the way people treated her.  A lot different than they treat me that's for sure, ha!   People warmed up to her very quickly and men just noticed her on the spot.  She has zero problems getting men and women, and were willing to offer her just about anything to get a piece of her.   The fact that she's European and had a slamming accent just added to the allure.

I don't judge solely on looks, but I have to be honest, it was definitely a boost to my esteem knowing I had an attractive partner.  The thing that magnified her beauty even more is that she's incredibly charming, giving, intelligent and her attention was directed towards me.  The first 6 months were critical for her to deliver the best of herself so I got hooked.

And yes, I have to admit, when I think about losing her, the thing that popped up in my mind is dang, I'm never going to hear that accent every again, or see her pretty self.  And she's not going to be by my side anymore.  Is that sad to think about?

[goldylamont]

At the end of the day, though, we have to be confident in our own looks and the more we are, the less we will let the looks of mentally unstable people distract us from the madness of the rest of the relationship!

haha thanks for that AllyCat7 i was hoping a woman would post about her bf so that i'd feel less shallow and "douche-y" .

i should add this thought though (which reading AllyCat made me think of)--I think my exBPD was used to "using men up" sooner. meaning that most men would be so caught up in her beauty that they would be head over heals in love with her (and her *initial* behavior) at least and when she started acting up they probably gave way too much or reacted without confidence until they ended up blowing up, giving her an excuse to paint them black, under the guise that they weren't good men.

right after we broke up my exBPDgf jumped into a relationship this ugly dood (i feel soo fortunate and lucky he wasn't a denzil/brad pitt!, !). she would throw it in my face telling me how great he was and how they were going to go on long trips together (which neither could afford, who you think you're fooling girl?) because she knew she could "trust" him after 2 weeks. Anyways, after taking all this BS during one conversation I told her the reason why she was with this guy was because he was a lap dog and easily controlled, and I distinctly remember telling her "oh yeah, in a few months this guy is gonna be your STALKER!" ha! and lo and behold 4 months later they break up, with him calling her all kinds of crazy names via text and he pretty much stalked her for a few months trying to apologize. I'm saying all of this b/c i knew, even back then 2 things:  1) that guy probably never had been with a woman that attractive, and 2) once he really had to deal with her dark side i doubted he'd have the self confidence to 'take the higher road'. boy was i right

[sunrising]

hmm, that's an interesting take (and controversal too) sunrising. my exBPDgf wasn't the princess type at all, she really disliked these kinds of girls for some reason... .  but she's no dummy either. everyone knows their own attractiveness no matter what issues they're dealing with even though she was crazy attractive she was also really insecure about her looks,

back to the what you were saying though sunrising i definitely wonder if there's a connection physical attractiveness and this disorder? i know this is really horrible to think about, but i've wondered if perhaps sometimes more physically attractive people are picked as children for abuse? i'm sure this couldn't really be quantified at this point but the thought has occurred.

It seems common, to me, for physically attractive people to be insecure about their looks.  My exwBPD was, and was always looking for people to "prove her wrong".  Posting provocative pics of herself on FB to get the "wows", etc... .  

I don't know if my ex was abused, but I would agree with you that pretty little girls could be more often abused.  That makes sense.   I do know that her looks were a big part of her identity.   When she was hospitalized and diagnosed with BPD, the Dr asked her to list her strengths and weaknesses.  #3 on the strengths list?   Good hair... .     I can barely type that without wanting to cry for her.  

[willy45]

Arg.

Ok. I am in this same boat. The day to day living with my ex was h*ll. It was long distance and I kept it at that. She would rage and rage at me all the time and was needy as all get out. She was funny. Sure. She validated me. Sure. But I can have fun times with my friends. I can learn to validate myself. But, if I look objectively at everything, she was a nightmare to be with. Super picky. Finicky. Had a major sleeping disorder so difficult to sleep beside (this is an understatement. I spent more time on the floor than beside her). And the list goes on and on and on. A very stressful and manipulative person.

But the looks. Oh man. She was it for me. Still is. She looked like a 1950s pinup girl or a woman on the cover of a old detective model. Totally Femme Fatale. And she knew how to flaunt it, which totally killed me. Sometimes, the sex with her was out of this world. And I say sometimes. Because most of the time it was confusing and stressful (again, super finicky and would change her mind about what she wanted about 3 or 4 times during sex... .  made me feel very insignificant). But, she had this long red hair, long legs, sexy green eyes. She could sometimes seem like an actress out of high end porn or something. And she would constantly put on these outfits. Man oh man.

That, in the end, is what kept me going back. That, in the end, is the biggest thing that hooks me now. I'm starting to work on this in T starting on Wednesday. My sexuality is entirely tied up in her. Completely. I can't really get off without thinking of her or some fantasy she would tell me or some fantasy that I came up with about her. It sucks. And every time I fantasize about her like that, I spend a day or two beating myself up about leaving her, about not committing to her, and blaming myself for everything. It is a terrible cycle.

But yes. I concur with all y'all.

Arg. And also, blarg.

[willy45]

Oh... .  

And it is not for the lack of my dating other women. I've dated women who are objectively way more attractive than her. Just for some reason, she did it for me.

Man. This is so hard... .  I wish she would just burn out of my brain.

[glacier_glider]

Still, "attractive" is relative and subjective.

I wish we could share some images here but somehow I think this would be unethical, even though they are publicly available.

Yes, not the best but somehow she was very special... .  the way she looked and responded to what I felt.

I'll do my post on sex when I am ready. There is something interesting about that.

PS. goldylamont, check your PM.

[sunrising]

We would regularly be complimented in being an "attractive couple" by strangers.   Who wouldn't like hearing that?   I don't feel bad about liking that about her. Would be weird if I didn't... .   But her looks don't change the other things about her, which are unacceptable to me.  Not do they change the things I'm learning about myself, which I'm also not liking all of those.    

[AllyCat7]

At the end of the day, though, we have to be confident in our own looks and the more we are, the less we will let the looks of mentally unstable people distract us from the madness of the rest of the relationship!

haha thanks for that AllyCat7 i was hoping a woman would post about her bf so that i'd feel less shallow and "douche-y" .

i should add this thought though (which reading AllyCat made me think of)--I think my exBPD was used to "using men up" sooner. meaning that most men would be so caught up in her beauty that they would be head over heals in love with her (and her *initial* behavior) at least and when she started acting up they probably gave way too much or reacted without confidence until they ended up blowing up, giving her an excuse to paint them black, under the guise that they weren't good men.

right after we broke up my exBPDgf jumped into a relationship this ugly dood (i feel soo fortunate and lucky he wasn't a denzil/brad pitt!, !). she would throw it in my face telling me how great he was and how they were going to go on long trips together (which neither could afford, who you think you're fooling girl?) because she knew she could "trust" him after 2 weeks. Anyways, after taking all this BS during one conversation I told her the reason why she was with this guy was because he was a lap dog and easily controlled, and I distinctly remember telling her "oh yeah, in a few months this guy is gonna be your STALKER!" ha! and lo and behold 4 months later they break up, with him calling her all kinds of crazy names via text and he pretty much stalked her for a few months trying to apologize. I'm saying all of this b/c i knew, even back then 2 things:  1) that guy probably never had been with a woman that attractive, and 2) once he really had to deal with her dark side i doubted he'd have the self confidence to 'take the higher road'. boy was i right

Haha no problem! I think the looks thing is an equal-opportunity issue. It all depends on our environment and what we were praised for growing up. So don't feel like you're alone. Men, especially, do this a LOT--place value on the looks of their partner. It's actually the norm

As for me, I think one of the reasons I was so whatever about the 10s looks is that the 9 never snapped out of idealization phase with me. Since he never completely "hooked me", he was pretty much obsessed with me and sweating me the entire time I've known him (I never asked for it). It was so much sometimes that it would make me uncomfortable . But to be honest, though, it did give me a boost to my self esteem. So now I'm like "I'm the ___ and I don't have to put up with your crap even if you're hot!" to the 10 haha. So if anyone has the chance to remain in idealization phase with their pwBPD or cut things off right when the idealization is about to end, they will be in pretty good shape confidence-wise for their next relationship haha. Of course I'm being facetious, but it's funny how it worked like that.

Also, I totally know what you're talking about in the last paragraph. My 10 does that, too. I think when these super hot BPDs go for much less attractive people, it can totally backfire. They may be able to control them at first, but if the person is insecure and they get hurt, they will lash out like nobody's business or get extra clingy and stalkerish, as you stated. I suspect this has happened with quite a few girls that the 10 has talked to, as I've been on the receiving end of him after he's been dysregulated from other girls. Maybe repetition will teach them that no one will put up with crap for long--confident people will walk away from it and insecure people will eventually fight and lash out against it... .  leaving the BPD alone either way.

[healingmyheart]

Interesting topic because most articles do ascertain that the BPD is an attractive person and I guess based upon what you all are saying is true.  My ex BPD boyfriend was attractive... .  tall, gorgeous hair, athletic body but interesting when I first met him, I just thought "he's ok".  After a month or so, I thought he was gorgeous which leads me to believe that the spell was being cast on me and seeing him in a different light.  

He seemed to know and like the fact that he was attractive.  He would make comments like "look around, we are the most attractive couple in the room".  

For me, it was just a bonus that he was handsome... .  and after what I've been through with BPD, I don't think I want another "handsome" guy.  I just want someone who respects me, is honest, loves me, faithful to a fault, takes care of himself physically and mentally, oh, like a good sense of humor... .  is that asking too much?

[goldylamont]

somebody queue up a bong sound... .  boong! could it be that these gorgeous and broken people are put into our lives to smack us up and make us put less faith in looks?   are the gods telling us something here? is it possible we're all too fooled by looks that this was life's lesson from the gods that be?

hah, really, i don't think it's as simple as that   but fun to muse about. i'm out... .  boong

[glacier_glider]

Do you guys check your PM at all?

[sunrising]

somebody queue up a bong sound... .  boong! could it be that these gorgeous and broken people are put into our lives to smack us up and make us put less faith in looks?   are the gods telling us something here? is it possible we're all too fooled by looks that this was life's lesson from the gods that be?

hah, really, i don't think it's as simple as that   but fun to muse about. i'm out... .  boong

I'm glad you started this thread, goldylamont.  For one, it has made me question how much I may have let her looks affect my decisions.  Secondly, I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who may need to consider that.     

[Maryiscontrary]

Well for me it was the genius in him. And he was hot as in the dick van dyke chitty chitty bang bang charming disheveiled inventor type.

Screw that.

[healingmyheart]

I think even for guys an attractive women is relative based upon your likes, correct?  I would even ask my ex whether he thought a women was attractive or not because I was curious what he found enticing.  

[GreenMango]

Want to know when you bargain your values for looks?   This doesn't sound like problem with the partner as much as it is a problem with your values and boundaries.

Hey I get it this person was attractive... .  but last I checked they weren't making up your mind for you.

Huge learning lesson here-what are you going to do differently?

[goldylamont]

I'm glad you started this thread, goldylamont.  For one, it has made me question how much I may have let her looks affect my decisions.  Secondly, I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who may need to consider that.     

thanks sunrising for the kind words. you know i have thought about it a lot too, trying to parse out how much the looks made me change my behavior... .  and, bottom line, as far as changing my behavior i'm not really sure i changed too much. i feel like i spoke up when i wanted and said the things i wanted when i wanted to (sometimes perhaps too much)   but then again i do remember the first time realizing that 'something was wrong here' after the first abandonment episode... .  and then the last six months of the r/s... .  perhaps if anything i stuck around longer b/c of this?

after all this time i don't really feel like i gave too much as far as what i did or said b/c of looks and honestly i don't feel like i stayed in the r/s too long (i didn't want it to end, i think i derailed the train before cheating occurred on either side)... .  buuut, if anything it affected me the most after the r/s ended and i missed being with someone i felt that physically attracted to... .  i sometimes see women that may come close but it's very few and far between.

but eff that though really she's not all that she had man hands & feet! (, i didn't mind though i used to love em)  thanks for listening

[GreenMango]

but eff that though really she's not all that she had man hands & feet! (, i didn't mind though i used to love em)  thanks for listening

It's the little things... .  I mean big 

Hang in there.  Most of us here have had some uncomfortable revelations.

[goldylamont]

It's the little things... .  I mean big 

tee hee! good one greenmango  laughter is healing, thanks.

p.s. i will say though greenmango (regarding your first post) that i think most people posting on this thread have done so from a self-reflecting perspective. i haven't noticed many people actually complaining about their ex's good looks 

[GreenMango]

  not once have I ever read someone complaining that there ex too attractive or too sexual.  Mostly its the *surprise* stuff like why does this person cheat, why do they play emotional games, why do they rage... .  but Damn if they aren't hot.

Sometimes that prize ain't much of a prize when you see what a person really is about-with or without BPD. 

But finding that balance of attractive for you, matching values, etc can be a quest.

Do you think it will change how you date?  What you will be looking for in a mate?

[trevjim]

I can completey relate. I loved the ego boost it gave me, my mates sayin wow she is hot etc. But in the end I got burnt. She gets chatted up everywhere which when I felt secure I loved, but as things became rocky it become a bit of a curse.

If I imagine her as really ugly, I wonder why I would be bother at all. But she is just so captivating, and it was something more than looks