I have some very disorganized bonding strategies.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Guys, I will be the first to admit I have some serious developmental and attachment issues.

For about 20 years, I have believe I am a bit aspergers. I have stemmed from infancy, I become obsessive with various topics, I get over stimulated sensory, I was slow to talk, had issues with emotional processing, and was a typical geek. Clumsey. I am also a scientist and I study everything from a scientific perspective. My believe my mother and her brother to be slightly like this.

Now, having so called narcissic paternal side,   I was an easy mark. I was mocked relentlessly. Severe abuse. Ugly fleas. Severe empathy failures, and no direction on how to handle overwhelming sensory and emotional experiences. Nobody in our family takes responsibility for anything emotionally loaded, except for me, and only after many years of intense practice.

I have boy friends, but only at an arms length. I have told them this. I really enjoy alone time. I have my own Internet business where I work alone a lot, and I enjoy it. I do have a social life, but I do get overstimulated and have to regroup.

I have developed synthetic personality to cover for the fact I have quite severe innate social deficits.  It is my salesman side. I operate like bill Clinton, JFK, or Barack Obama... .  smooth and slick... .  in this mode. My geeky side codes and does the technical, and my narcissic side sells it all. This side gets all the boys, and hobnobs with the oilfield millionaires. The geeky side had an extreme monk like ascetic minimalism. Everything I own fits inside a 28 foot RV, and even then, there is empty space there. I drive an old pickup for over 5 years,as it was a wrecked beater of my fathers. All clothes, etc, are used. I have 15 dollar phone, as these have better reception and drop calls much less than the androids, and I don't text. I don't own a TV. I can't handle having a bunch of bills... .  even if small... .  to keep up with, so I don't.

It is very distinct and I am consciously aware of the shift from the geek to the salesman.

[Maryiscontrary]

Guys, I will be the first to admit I have some serious developmental and attachment issues.

For about 20 years, I have believe I am a bit aspergers. I have stemmed from infancy, I become obsessive with various topics, I get over stimulated sensory, I was slow to talk, had issues with emotional processing, and was a typical geek. Clumsey. I am also a scientist and I study everything from a scientific perspective. My believe my mother and her brother to be slightly like this.

Now, having so called narcissic paternal side,   I was an easy mark. I was mocked relentlessly. Severe abuse. Ugly fleas. Severe empathy failures, and no direction on how to handle overwhelming sensory and emotional experiences. Nobody in our family takes responsibility for anything emotionally loaded, except for me, and only after many years of intense practice.

I have boy friends, but only at an arms length. I have told them this. I really enjoy alone time. I have my own Internet business where I work alone a lot, and I enjoy it. I do have a social life, but I do get overstimulated and have to regroup.

I have developed synthetic personality to cover for the fact I have quite severe innate social deficits.  It is my salesman side. I operate like bill Clinton, JFK, or Barack Obama... .  smooth and slick... .  in this mode. My geeky side codes and does the technical, and my narcissic side sells it all. This side gets all the boys, and hobnobs with the oilfield millionaires. The geeky side had an extreme monk like ascetic minimalism. Everything I own fits inside a 28 foot RV, and even then, there is empty space there. I drive an old pickup for over 5 years,as it was a wrecked beater of my fathers. All clothes, etc, are used. I have 15 dollar phone, as these have better reception and drop calls much less than the androids, and I don't text. I don't own a TV. I can't handle having a bunch of bills... .  even if small... .  to keep up with, so I don't.

It is very distinct and I am consciously aware of the shift from the geek to the salesman.

[Somewhere]

soo . . . .

Now that you put together your "Crappy" list . . . what goes on your "Happy" list?

[turtle]

Hi Maryiscontrary

I think this is a very insightful look at yourself.

So ... .    now that you've identified these things, do you have some changes you want to make?

turtle

[Maryiscontrary]

Thanks for your responses.

I am actually a fairly happy person, but it disturbs me that I am so screwed up. I cannot blend into the crowd. Though I stuff it away pretty good, I think people are out to harm me, asin use me. But on the other hand, I think people are idiots who make very, very bad choices, and expect me to clean up the mess.  This i am not doing anymore.

This interferes with bonding. Lack of things in common, overstimulation, and thinking that everybody is out to use me. I would never wish this on anybody.

[Maryiscontrary]

The pain of just existing is overwhelming. I conceal it and work with it. I think others are weak and undisiplined, as they trigger and act out over much less agony. White trash syndrome. I conceal my disgust.

My apologies if these thoughts are offensive. These are main issues I deal with and I don't share these. And it does not seem healthy.

[Maryiscontrary]

I am very controlling, because whenever I have turned any level of responsibility over to another, they cause lots of problems, screw things up, lie, steal, and cause a lot of headache and heart break for me.

I do not do these things, period. So this is not a projection. I will eat my mistakes. But I do think people are generally to stupid and dishonest to be trusted. I have tried to disprove this many times. People cannot be trusted beyond a certain level. I can be trusted, however, and guard others resources and feelings like fort knox. People do not know themselves.

Again, I know this is inflammatory, but this is a big, big issue with me.

[Maryiscontrary]

Oh, this is a bad one.

Men are only good for being a piece of ass and doing things like opening tight jar lids or loosening overly tight lug nuts. They are just too stupid and conniving to be trusted with anything else.

This one I am not proud of.

[Somewhere]

I like you, Mary.

A lot.

[Maryiscontrary]

I appreciate your feelings, and value them, but I feel very icky and have verbal and thought vomiting session now. These are not attractive qualities.

Here is another one.

I am very secretive about money. Not about debts, but assets. I don't spend money. I have unhealthy hoarding of money, and a terrible fear of homelessness or starving to death. I fix just about everything, because I am too afraid to hire it done.

[Somewhere]

Open and honest are good qualities no matter how they come out.

You Go, Girl.

[Maryiscontrary]

Thanks for your support, very much.

I have an eating disorder since childhood. I have to keep plain and austere food in the house because I cannot trust myself with addictive food. Just like an alcoholic keeping booze out the house. I have pretty severe celiac disease, which a lot of people on the autistic spectrum have, so I do not eat gluten. However, because of the damage of the auto immune issue and weird OCD binging for all of my life, etc, I find I cannot over eat without severe pain, period. I welcome this pain, because it keep these compulsions at bay. I keep a healthy weight and blood chemistry profile because of dietary restrictions and the pain.

But I am disturbed that I cannot keep lindt chocolate or ben and jerrys in my home without eating it all at one time.

[turtle]

You know Maryiscontrary... .  many of the things that you have expressed here are things that I either feel myself or can completely understand.

For instance:

I think people are idiots who make very, very bad choices, and expect me to clean up the mess.  This i am not doing anymore.

I feel this way a good portion of the time.   One of my favorite sayings is "poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."    The key for me in your statement is "this i am not doing anymore."

I think others are weak and undisiplined, as they trigger and act out over much less agony.

When I first read this, I thought... .  damn... .  that's harsh.  Then... .  after thinking a bit... .  I might not have said it exactly as you did, but I too find some people to be very weak, undisciplined, and then when you throw the sense of entitlement on top, I get VERY irritated.

But I do think people are generally to stupid and dishonest to be trusted. I have tried to disprove this many times. People cannot be trusted beyond a certain level. I can be trusted, however, and guard others resources and feelings like fort knox. People do not know themselves.

Again... .  when I first read this, I thought... .  HARSH.  But... .  at second look... .  I feel about the same.  I trust no one (except my Mom.) That is just a fact.  I can't say it's because I find them stupid or dishonest.  I don't feel that kind of disdain about it, but just not trusting others is a fact for me.

Men are only good for being a piece of ass and doing things like opening tight jar lids or loosening overly tight lug nuts. They are just too stupid and conniving to be trusted with anything else.

Okay... .  this one made me laugh a bit.  I don't feel as strongly about this as you do, and I have no more mistrust of men than women.  I do know this.  I have no interest in ever remarrying.  I have no interest in ever sharing my space with someone and I will never again combine my money with someone.  Again, I have no feelings of disdain about this... .  it just IS.

I am very secretive about money. Not about debts, but assets. I don't spend money. I have unhealthy hoarding of money, and a terrible fear of homelessness or starving to death. I fix just about everything, because I am too afraid to hire it done.

And this... .  well, frankly Maryiscontrary, I wish I had been more secretive about money throughout my life.  I wish I had been smarter about it -- not throwing it at dysfunctional relationships.  That was one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made.

I don't fear homelessness or starving to death, but I DO fix just about everything because I can no longer afford to pay someone else to do it.

But I am disturbed that I cannot keep lindt chocolate or ben and jerrys in my home without eating it all at one time.

I can't keep this stuff in my house either.  And I could add about 25 items to your list. Chips, cookies, cake, etc.

turtle

[Maryiscontrary]

I really appreciate your feedback, turtle.

Unlike you, I do feel extreme distain, and I feel contantly offended. These statement bother me, because they reek of ASPD and NPD. They appear very black and white.  If feel that with one small trip up, I could become very evil and sociopathic. I see these weaknesses in others, and the only reason I don't exploit is a deep sense of morality and karma. But I feel like this belief is tenuous. Part of my humanity has died this past year.

[turtle]

Unlike you, I do feel extreme distain, and I feel contantly offended. These statement bother me, because they reek of ASPD and NPD. They appear very black and white.  If feel that with one small trip up, I could become very evil and sociopathic. I see these weaknesses in others, and the only reason I don't exploit is a deep sense of morality and karma. But I feel like this belief is tenuous. Part of my humanity has died this past year.

This is a very powerful statement, Maryiscontrary.  I am so sorry that you feeling so overwhelmed. I know how it feels to think that you've lost a part of your humanity.  It's concerning!

Have you sought out any therapy for these concerns?  I hate it when people ask me that, so I apologize in advance if that's irritating!

turtle

[Maryiscontrary]

Yes I have. Basically, I have had so many devastating losses over the past 6 years, that my therapist thinks that I have a huge amount of grieving to do. I am doing this, but I have to Be functional in life, too.


Everything, I mean everything, as been taken away. my fault was trusting others. I see other social structures and family be able to have trust and not screw each other, but I find the quality of people are so poor, that I have to shut them out for my own sanity.

[turtle]

Yes I have. Basically, I have had so many devastating losses over the past 6 years, that my therapist thinks that I have a huge amount of grieving to do. I am doing this, but I have to Be functional in life, too.


Everything, I mean everything, as been taken away. my fault was trusting others. I see other social structures and family be able to have trust and not screw each other, but I find the quality of people are so poor, that I have to shut them out for my own sanity.

I know what you  mean about having to be functional in life while not really believing in life (as I currently know it) at all.  Like you, I am in sales --- and my client base (by their very nature,) are some of the most entitled and narcissistic people on the planet.  I have a very difficult time dealing with these kinds of people everyday.  This has gotten a bit better for me over the years, but it STILL gets to me.  My clients are how I earn a living, yet I find most of them quite ridiculous.  It's hard not to let that show... .  yet I know I have to hide that if I want to survive financially.  This makes me feel like a fraud.

I remember being so raw that I shut out nearly everyone.  I had to.  I didn't believe ANYONE.  I didn't want to be around ANYONE.  I was irritated by EVERY SINGLE PERSON who crossed my path --- including myself.

As time has gone on... .  I have softened toward others AND myself. I KNOW that I don't trust others, but I don't see this as a bad thing, per se.

I'm sure your T is right about needing to grieve.  In some ways, I think the grieving goes on forever... .  at least it does for me.  It isn't something I dwell on all of the time, but there is a sense in me that the world is very different than I had previously thought and I grieve that my innocence is lost.  At the same time, I see the value in no longer being naive and innocent -- even though that isn't pleasant at times. 

I think you are very insightful Maryiscontrary.  I applaud you for your assessment of yourself here.  Just remember that with all the negative things you've pointed out here, there are some positives too.  I know that not trusting others is supposedly a big "no-no," but I don't view it that way.  Right now, you trust no one and it sounds as though you have good reason for that.  Perhaps... .  as time goes on... .  you will learn to trust again... .  and when you do... .  it will come from a different place.  A place that is qualified.  There's nothing wrong with that.  And many of us have had to cut out everyone and then start over with a different criteria of who we trust and why.

Do you feel your T is helping you right now?

turtle

[Maryiscontrary]

I have not been to my therapist in a few months. At this point, I do not feel it would do any good. I just need time to heal. I absolutely need to insure that the odds of some ~ hitting the fan are as small as possible.

You can't heal from PTSD with more trauma heaped. There really is not much more to lose at this point, seriously, there is not a hell of a lot to take from me right now. It has been 1 week since anything traumatic happened... .  my divorce was finallized.

[turtle]

There really is not much more to lose at this point, seriously, there is not a hell of a lot to take from me right now. It has been 1 week since anything traumatic happened... .  my divorce was finallized.

Well... .  then it's only up from here.

Truly, I think this is one of the best threads I've seen here in a long time and I wish more people would have jumped in.  Your honesty and candor here is admirable.  I wish more people here would do the same! Thank you for putting it all out there!

turtle

[Maryiscontrary]

I appreciate your feedback. For me, it is imperative my reality makes sense. I am not going to feel comfortable unless I see a pattern I can just partially at least navigate. Right now, it seems like the world is full of nothing but predators.

I mean, if I use feedback from nature to guide my behavior, it appears the world is telling me to be the mother of all btches. Ruthless. These are qualities that we say the world doesn't want, but my data says it does.

I had to be ruthless in divorce. I read the law, and formulated strategy with my attorney. I didn't want to be ruthless, as it offends my character, but he had been such a thieving, entitled a... .  hole who didn't want to give me share of the family property he said he would , I had to proverbially do a quick and clean decapitation in court...

We formulated the portrait of a real btch, me and my attorney. Of course, it is absolutely true. You can't be nice to a btch in the legal system, you just elimate him in court. I don't like this strategy, but nothing, I mean nothing else would work.

[Maryiscontrary]

I mean, how else is there to be when you are shoved in a corner, and all other attempts of mitigation and negotiation has failed... .  the bad guys will destroy you... .  you have to be ruthless and go for the underbelly.

This reality disgust me.

[GreenMango]

Hey maryiscontrary,

I was reading your thread and I wanted to share with you that looking at yourself in very real terms is a very BRAVE thing to do.  Admitting it is the hard part.  Many people never even get to this point.  It's easier to say it was all someone else.

Like turtle said its place to start from and things can only go up from here.

I know for a longtime I was grieving and not just the relationship; but the dreams and hopes.  The loss was bigger than I realized.  I needed time to grieve these things first, introspection and then slowly work on changing those things I didn't like.  The therapist helped me with this.

PS I can't have chocolate in the house!  And girlscout thin mint cookies in the freezer don't last either.

[charred]

Thanks for your responses.

I am actually a fairly happy person, but it disturbs me that I am so screwed up. I cannot blend into the crowd. Though I stuff it away pretty good, I think people are out to harm me, asin use me. But on the other hand, I think people are idiots who make very, very bad choices, and expect me to clean up the mess.  This i am not doing anymore.

This interferes with bonding. Lack of things in common, overstimulation, and thinking that everybody is out to use me. I would never wish this on anybody.

You sound like my clone... sadly

Look in to codependency and treatment for it... after a long time dealing with disordered people, its easy to withdrawl and look outward for happiness, permission to live/make yourself happy, and ... its pretty easy to fall in to dealing with people in the dsyfunctional Karpman drama triangle way... which is what you seemed to describe... and which I have done for years... resulting in keeping people at arms length or better, and having no close relationships.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

Above link is good (but harsh)... article on it.

The hoarding money, fixing your own things... is not in itself bad... but the motivation to do it, if it is denying yourself as you don't feel you deserve better... sounds like you may deny yourself a better life.

I had saved up 3 yrs income (and I make a lot)... and I am realizing... it doesn't matter to me, not like having a family, close friends, and good relationships with people would. You are pretty eloquent in describing yourself... a good therapist could probably jump right in with helpful advice. I was pretty wishy-washy about what needed work... .  was insanely stressed, so we started with that... had tried anti-anxiety meds, and the side effects were unbearable (awake for 3 days, didn't feel like I was me)... my T pointed me at mindfulness and within a month my stress level dropped to lower than I ever remember it being... that alone was worth the cost... and we are working on PTSD like symptoms from the traumas of dealing with my dad and exBPDgf.

Guess that is a long winded way to say... you sound delightful to me... just like me, and it sounds like you spent a lifetime dealing with painful experiences on your own... getting help is first truly smart thing I have done... try it... you may not be as screwed up as you think... just anxiety ridden from being burned a number of times. (I have been burned... go by charred for a reason.)

[Maryiscontrary]

First I want to thank everybody for their very thoughtful and kind responses. I really, very much appreciate all of you.

I am not codependent any more. I am not. I have very, very strict boundaries.

It is like turtle said... .  she was raw for a very long time. I was being very black and white yesterday. I have amazing friends, and my father at age 67, really, really became a lot more gentle after he almost died from superbug sepsis two years ago. These people understand my periods of needing to regroup.

I live in a beautiful area. I don't have to work very hard, because I hoard money, know how to use it very frugally, and I could live 10 years without doing anything at all. But I do have my business, and it will grow good this year.

This is just a cognitive process. if you have ever been through extensive physical therapy, you understand this is a very painful process.

Well it is no different.

I am very greatful to the people on this board. Maybe somehow I can return the favor.

Thank you guys on this thread for your kindness and support. Thanks.

[maria1]

Hey maryiscontrary

I need to tell you I so admire your thread. We can't be codependent if we don't let others close to us. I'm wondering if thats you've dealt with it?

I think codependent traits don't just go- I'm not as far on as you I think but my guess is the traits will be there long after I've stopped being in codependent relationships- I'll just need to keep working on them.

So much respect to you for your honesty x

Oh yeah and cookies, chocolate etc-me and ALL the women I know

[Maryiscontrary]

Dear Maria, I see how you have changed over the last 6 months as well.

It's like stopping smoking, you just do it cold turkey. And you  realize others' tantrums are just an illusion. I had to let my sleazy brother, my only sibling, go. It was hurting really bad yesterday, because I take family relationships very seriously. I just went NC with my ex 6 month ago, because  there was no information being exchanged, and he thought I was being facetious with my fervent requests for him to get help. Like gina louise, our SOs could have chopped us up into tiny bits and stored our remains in the freezer... .  and not realized what they had done because they were psychotic. The makings of a criminally insane person. We stopped it.

You realize you are being played for an idiot, and you just want it to stop. Again, you realize who you really want on you proverbial life boat, you do not wanting people to drag you into hell. you should not have to beg for respect. This is ADD of the emotions you are dealing with, so much energy will be wasted enabling this.    

The agony comes with all of the loss. Hell, I have moved 8 times since 2005, and the previous place I was at for 9 years---I am not a mover. This was entirely due to being put in bad situations, and I got tired of it. I have had 4 deaths of very close family, lost two businesses, lost my kitty cat. The only thing I did wrong was stay around people who were sabotaging things.    

[Cumulus]

Hi marycontrary, man, you are brutally honest with yourself! You mentioned that you had a need for control. I've noticed others have said it as well and I know I have had a great need for control. Not to control others, but a rigid unbending need to control myself. I wasn't like that as a young woman but I acquired it living in the situation I was in for so many years. I'm really working hard at letting it go, it's all an illusion anyway. I have no more control over my future then I do over whether it will be sunny or rainy tomorrow. All I can do is make good choices or as good as what I am able and accept what the future brings. I know I am still struggling with it, not sure what I think will happen if I allow myself to completely let go like I would end up in a puddle on the floor unable to get up or the sun wouldn't rise at all?  Seriously when I look at it like that I can appreciate the ridiculousness of it all.

[maria1]

Maryiscontrary- I don't think I have swung as far as you. I think my make up is slightly different. There have been times when I imagine I'm being played for an idiot but I'm not. There have been times I have convinced myself that people that care about me don't care, when actually they do. I am very good at filling in the gaps, just as much with negatives as with positives if that's how I'm feeling.

I'm learning for me that nothing is that extreme. BPDex took me for an idiot at times; at times he cared and was trying to do the right thing. My friends care about me, but they have other things in their lives which take up their time and attention, and they have their own ~ to deal with. I'm not making excuses for getting treated badly- I'm just saying it's important for me to let go of the black and white.

We stopped the insane behaviour and we should feel pleased with ourselves. But one insane person does not and should not colour your view of everybody. I was lucky that I did not marry my pwBPD and was only with him for 10 months and I managed to walk away and stay relatively strong because my children saved me. I feel like I just skimmed the surface but still took a deep lesson.

You see the ~ all around. That's good but you can focus too far on the negatives to your own detriment. I think it's important that you re-engage with therapy to find some positives for you again. That's a huge amount of loss you've had on top of BPD stuff. You've stopped staying around the bad- you can begin to find the good again now?

[Maryiscontrary]

Thanks for both of your responses. I needed a little time to figure out How to respond.

Cumulus. I have studied the problem of Determinsm vs. free will for about 17 years. The overwhelming forces of life are not controllable, for the most part. But there is a small percent that is controllable. The problem is figuring out where this domain lays, and what is not in the domain.

If we are lucky, then we can control some of ourselves. Ask a person with Parkinson's what control means to them. I think it is a major human accomplishment to be able to well regulate ones emotional brain centers, or at least partially. I think some people, because of genetics, are going to have a much harder time, just likeit takes a lot more work to read when you have dyslexia. But some emotional control can be had by anybody. Just like anybody can learn to read, even if it is at a lower proficiency than others. But there is at least some possiblility for a little proficiency, which is better than nothing.

Personally, I have a real defict of relating to people. I mean, born slow in emotional processing, that is slow at encoding and rendering, and integrating emotional memory. I have done a ton of work in rehabilitation with this, but I am never going to be proficient in some respects. I can be very proficient, and then suddenly get mentally exhausted and not be able to do it. But I do what I can.

When I get exhausted with this, part of my emotional processing has gaps. There is dissociation, but do to a vacuum of processing. Nothing there, checks out. Nutrition, stress, sleep, lots of mental calculating makes it worse, but I think that this is something I was born with.

So there is a lot you can't control but at least there is a little. Sure cumulus, one can't control the weather, but one can orient ones body at another latitude and longitude that has more favorable weather.

Maria, I don't think most people try to play others for idiots consciously or intentionally, but a sizable minority of people want others to clean up the garbage resulting  from their dysregulation.

The ones that don't, one must cherish these rare people. I don't just see the negative, I see the realities. The world is dangerous for vulnerable people. I think there are some wonderful, beautiful things, but there are some toxic, unhealthy things, lest we all know. I can't handle a complicated life. I can't handle the complexities of a typical American lifestyle. I am a very vulnerable person. You are likely much stronger emotionally than me, thus likely  less vulnerable. You were a smart cookie to get out so fast. Mine was stealth, and plus my reg flag detector is slow, because of my slow emotioonal processing.

I don't focus on the positives or negative perceptions, I focus on the realities. Life is dangerous for me.

[maria1]

I do get what you're saying Mary and I think we all find our own way with our own unique stories and who we are. We get to different points and nowhere is wrong. I just hope you can find happiness because you truly deserve it.

My BPDex was honest enough with me to push me out- he tried to pull me back after the final push but I wasn't playing any more. He knew and always told me he would push me away in the end. He hated himself for what he did to be and I thank him still for saving me from him in a strange way.

I think your honesty and self awareness is inspirational. X