As some have said... they come back when you're starting to do better...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have been almost 3 months out of a relationship of almost 5 years.  We recycled after I physically moved out while he was out of town, then I moved 1,000 miles away.  We were on and off.  I finally ended it on Dec. 14 and he took it well.  

We were in low contact until our beloved cat, aged 19, began to decline, and vet believes it is cancer.  Throughout the last month, we have spoken kindly and warmly to each other, but always about the cat.  Once or twice he put out a feeler, like "I am missing you a lot today."  To which I replied, "I think Kitty being sick makes us think about each other a lot right now."  He took it well.

Today, I flew halfway across the country for business.  He went to be at his father's wedding.  I am a freelancer and this is a company I consult with--I love them, they love me, it is creative and fulfilling.  I had a great evening at dinner last night.  A young woman and her fiance came to dinner, and her story... .  wow... .  it was me.  

She is a lot like me personality wise for starters.  She is engaged to someone she was friends with for a year before they became involved.  She was, before they started dating, living with a man whom she supported completely (... .  I did... .  ) who was a teacher who was traumatized by verbal abuse from students and from one of his peers and now cannot return to teaching (hm... .  my ex "couldn't" get a job because of his bipolar and his type I diabetes)... .  and she decided, this wasn't what she wanted from life.

So she's going to marry the man who is her best friend, who makes enough money so they have a beautiful home, who arranged the most elaborate wedding proposal ever going to great lengths because he was that much into her.   They are actively involved in a hobby that brought them together and they adore.  

And I thought... .  "I want this."

So today, I get a text that he is missing me... .  right before I leave to go into this hugely important meeting.  (He knew where I was and what I was doing.)  

I have a great, great, wonderful, soul-nourishing, positive, exciting day that affirms that I am lucky and life is good.  I come home to this email:


"I had a big, long email all written out, but now it doesn't seem like the right thing to send. Perhaps later, but not now.

"I would really like the opportunity to sit down and have a very long chat with you, either over IM or on the phone. Perhaps Saturday night, or maybe Sunday, depending on how tired each of us is from our respective trips. I don't know if this will be an easy or difficult chat. I want it to be an amicable chat. There are just some things that I feel we really need to discuss. I don't want to get too into what it's about, because I don't want either of us overthinking anything before the fact.

Please do not feel any fear or apprehension about this. I feel it's a good and positive conversation for us to have, even if it is also important and somewhat serious.

I love you very much."

I am 100% certain he wants to get back together.  And I am ANGRY.  Angry that he took the wind out of my sails, when he KNEW I had this going on.  Angry that I'm going to have to keep doing this, when I thought I was done, and we had resolved it.  Fiercely protecting of my right to have a happy, healthy relationship.  I don't WANT to hurt him.

I'm not sure if I should respond, or what.  I also have a project due on Tuesday, and I cannot afford to be scatterbrained right now.  He's pulled me off track.  I am thinking about saying, "Sure, happy to talk, can we wait until after Tuesday?  I have this big deadline and need to focus on it."

Thoughts?

[Changed4safety]

I have been almost 3 months out of a relationship of almost 5 years.  We recycled after I physically moved out while he was out of town, then I moved 1,000 miles away.  We were on and off.  I finally ended it on Dec. 14 and he took it well.  

We were in low contact until our beloved cat, aged 19, began to decline, and vet believes it is cancer.  Throughout the last month, we have spoken kindly and warmly to each other, but always about the cat.  Once or twice he put out a feeler, like "I am missing you a lot today."  To which I replied, "I think Kitty being sick makes us think about each other a lot right now."  He took it well.

Today, I flew halfway across the country for business.  He went to be at his father's wedding.  I am a freelancer and this is a company I consult with--I love them, they love me, it is creative and fulfilling.  I had a great evening at dinner last night.  A young woman and her fiance came to dinner, and her story... .  wow... .  it was me.  

She is a lot like me personality wise for starters.  She is engaged to someone she was friends with for a year before they became involved.  She was, before they started dating, living with a man whom she supported completely (... .  I did... .  ) who was a teacher who was traumatized by verbal abuse from students and from one of his peers and now cannot return to teaching (hm... .  my ex "couldn't" get a job because of his bipolar and his type I diabetes)... .  and she decided, this wasn't what she wanted from life.

So she's going to marry the man who is her best friend, who makes enough money so they have a beautiful home, who arranged the most elaborate wedding proposal ever going to great lengths because he was that much into her.   They are actively involved in a hobby that brought them together and they adore.  

And I thought... .  "I want this."

So today, I get a text that he is missing me... .  right before I leave to go into this hugely important meeting.  (He knew where I was and what I was doing.)  

I have a great, great, wonderful, soul-nourishing, positive, exciting day that affirms that I am lucky and life is good.  I come home to this email:


"I had a big, long email all written out, but now it doesn't seem like the right thing to send. Perhaps later, but not now.

"I would really like the opportunity to sit down and have a very long chat with you, either over IM or on the phone. Perhaps Saturday night, or maybe Sunday, depending on how tired each of us is from our respective trips. I don't know if this will be an easy or difficult chat. I want it to be an amicable chat. There are just some things that I feel we really need to discuss. I don't want to get too into what it's about, because I don't want either of us overthinking anything before the fact.

Please do not feel any fear or apprehension about this. I feel it's a good and positive conversation for us to have, even if it is also important and somewhat serious.

I love you very much."

I am 100% certain he wants to get back together.  And I am ANGRY.  Angry that he took the wind out of my sails, when he KNEW I had this going on.  Angry that I'm going to have to keep doing this, when I thought I was done, and we had resolved it.  Fiercely protecting of my right to have a happy, healthy relationship.  I don't WANT to hurt him.

I'm not sure if I should respond, or what.  I also have a project due on Tuesday, and I cannot afford to be scatterbrained right now.  He's pulled me off track.  I am thinking about saying, "Sure, happy to talk, can we wait until after Tuesday?  I have this big deadline and need to focus on it."

Thoughts?

[Changed4safety]

Also, he's looking at the company he works at folding by the end of the month.  Coincidence?  /sarcasm

[healingmyheart]

You said what you wanted... .  a normal, healthy, loving relationship with someone you can call your friend just like the example that was presented to you at dinner.  That's want you WANT, that's what you DESERVE!

You are ANGRY because you don't want to go back to what you had.  It was dysfunctional and you know in your heart you deserve "normal".  You know you are at risk of being sucked back into the madness... .  what he is doing is not fair or right. 

You need to protect yourself.  If it were me and knowing how easily it would be for me to get pulled back into a situation I don't want, I would email him back and explain that you do not want to get back together and you are moving forward with your life in a pattern that you are happy with and want to continue.  PERIOD.  Then, when he tries to come back at you, just do not respond.  Do not answer phone calls and allow yourself to be open to his seductive ways. Yes, it's hard but its necessary if you want to move forward. 

At least, that's how I would handle it.  Follow your instincts... .  you openly admitted in this thread what you want... .  normal relationship which isn't going to happen with him.  You are angry and don't want to go back... .  so do what it takes so that doesn't pull you down.

Good luck

[Ruthy2]

I think this is probably the case yes, I read a good article on the internet which states (hope it's ok to copy it here).

Borderlines felt anguish in relation to yearning and striving for their parent's affection throughout childhood--and learned to interpret these difficult/dramatic feelings as "Love." Chasing partners who are emotionally or physically unavailable--or married/attached, keeps this yearning vibrant, and inhibits them from embracing a partner who's able to provide love on a consistent basis. In short, when you satisfy a Borderline's cravings for love, painfully intense feelings associated with loving, instantly evaporate~ and so does their interest in you.

With a Borderline, Love is a no-win situation. The more you reassure them of your affection, fidelity and good intentions, the more they'll try to prove you wrong for it! That's the tormenting paradox of loving someone with BPD (they're typically more attracted to partners who are distant or abusive, than those who are actually equipped to adore them).

So this would explain why their interest returns when we are starting to do better.x

[turtle]

I have a great, great, wonderful, soul-nourishing, positive, exciting day that affirms that I am lucky and life is good.  I come home to this email:


"I had a big, long email all written out, but now it doesn't seem like the right thing to send. Perhaps later, but not now.

"I would really like the opportunity to sit down and have a very long chat with you, either over IM or on the phone. Perhaps Saturday night, or maybe Sunday, depending on how tired each of us is from our respective trips. I don't know if this will be an easy or difficult chat. I want it to be an amicable chat. There are just some things that I feel we really need to discuss. I don't want to get too into what it's about, because I don't want either of us overthinking anything before the fact.

Please do not feel any fear or apprehension about this. I feel it's a good and positive conversation for us to have, even if it is also important and somewhat serious.

I love you very much."

I think this is EXTREMELY rude.  Telling someone that they want to a have a serious chat (without telling you what it's about) -2 days from now - is very inconsiderate.  So... .  you're just supposed to put this "somewhat serious chat" in the back of your mind for the next 2 days and not think about it?  He says he doesn't want either of you "overthinking anything before fact?"  He already has everything he's going to say worked out because he's had the opportunity to "overthink" it while he leaves you in the dark.  What a jerk.

If you HAVE to respond, can you say something like "I'm not up for any somewhat serious conversations just now.  My plate is full."  I mean really... .  do you want to open yourself up to his "mystery chat?"

turtle

[blecker]

Do you think that the poor beautiful young lady who was killed by that Lion being a Lion would have done things a bit differently that day if she had a chance?

Your user ID is changed4safety and to have accumulated 3 months NC I would say that you have.

You are out of the cage and BPDs will be BPDs. Do you honestly think that he has changed?

Please think hard about entertaining his illness.

[turtle]

Do you think that the poor beautiful young lady who was killed by that Lion being a Lion would have done things a bit differently that day if she had a chance?

Your user ID is changed4safety and to have accumulated 3 months NC I would say that you have.

You are out of the cage and BPDs will be BPDs. Do you honestly think that he has changed?

Please think hard about entertaining his illness.

[gina louise]

I am in a very similar situation -over 3 months out of a 4 year rs and marriage.

Now that I am excelling in school and on track to reclaim MY life... my stbXh tries to leverage his way back pronto-bc my Dad dropped dead this past week and I am vulnerable.

I know some externals have changed for both of us, but can they remain "changed" for the better?

he's in T,(but barely) maybe even on meds now for his bipolar... .  

But is that enough of a start?

Not sure I want/need to find out.    

A week ago we were still halfway to divorce, settlement and all. I can't see much has changed.

GL

[SWLSR]

I will give this a stab.  A BPD life is based on lies.  We all now know it was lies with us but the lies continue after us also.  We the x nons are part of there past at some point they see us as someone they miss.  They may not admit to anyone but they know.  It is there hope that we stay available to them in what ever way they wish.  It could be romantic but it could be some kind of emotional support.  When we get our life togather and move beyond them we are no longer in there game.  They want us back they have lost us.  They will do what it takes to suck us back into there drama.  Even if it is sex or promise us love.

[Changed4safety]

No, I'm not going back.  It's too far behind in my rear-view mirror.  I just... .  don't want to keep talking about it, and I want this very nice loving friendship environment we've maintained. 

The way he phrased things in the email I quoted earlier was actually a bit better than his usual way.  But yeah, double standard, he has to know things RIGHT AWAY, but it's fine for him to say "No, I'm not going to tell you yet."  I wrestled with my feelings, but in the end decided to write back and tell him we couldn't talk till Tuesday anyway, after a big deadline, and it was OK because I wouldn't worry. 

Last night I had terrible dreams about him and breaking up, all in different ways and with us as different people etc.  I woke up about every hour.  Ugh. 

To further muddy the waters, my cat-with-cancer nearly died today.  I'm getting off the shuttle at the airport and vet calls to say his temperature has plunged to 90 degrees and they were doing all they could to warm him and bring it up.  They had him on heating pads, but it didn't look good, and she said he was doing better but might not make it.  (To you kind souls worrying for me, when I landed and changed planes, I had a happy vet telling me he was doing "much MUCH better", was eating and drinking and being active.  I have terrific vets!)

I let the ex know, he is flyign home and his flight is delayed because of snow, and he offers to change flights to come be with me.  I write a big long thing about how I'm doing OK, and I'm ready for Kitty to go if he really has to, but I don't need him to come down.  He says he was just joking--half joking, actually, if I really needed him to come down, we'd find a way to make it happen.

We emailed back and forth a little, and he was so relieved when I told him the good news.  I really kept things focused on the cat, and I didn't unload on him much.  I don't think I can side step this conversation, but I really am NOT looking forward to it.  If he freaks out, and doesn't ever want to see me again, I will be sad but I can't make him see it my way, and he can't make me do anything.

Detatchment... .  I'm loving it, even if it's not really solidified yet.  Thank you for all the responses, I really needed to get all this out there.  I am SO grateful to my new friend and her story about her fiance... .  it was so amazing and so exactly what I would like for myself, for what I feel WORTHY of having for myself, it's like my north star right now.  I don't think that was a coincidence.

[fakename]

It's funny how they expect that answer immediately but always what time to think when it's imposed on them (more like they want to see how things pan out or where things are with whoever else they are pursuing.

I also love how he offered to change flights to come to you. I've been there. It was never really for me, but really for her needs and also to make sure she was still able to manipulate me and keep me from moving on

[viking11]

Ditto on stolemysoul's reply !

Viking11

[Changed4safety]

Do you think that the poor beautiful young lady who was killed by that Lion being a Lion would have done things a bit differently that day if she had a chance?

Your user ID is changed4safety and to have accumulated 3 months NC I would say that you have.

You are out of the cage and BPDs will be BPDs. Do you honestly think that he has changed?

Please think hard about entertaining his illness.

Blecker, I cannot lay claim to being 3 months NC, just being three months declared out of the relationship.  We were in very low contact for a while, but fell back into daily texting when the cat fell ill.

[Changed4safety]

I am in a very similar situation -over 3 months out of a 4 year rs and marriage.

Now that I am excelling in school and on track to reclaim MY life... my stbXh tries to leverage his way back pronto-bc my Dad dropped dead this past week and I am vulnerable.

I know some externals have changed for both of us, but can they remain *changed* for the better?

he's in T,(but barely) maybe even on meds now for his bipolar... .  

But is that enough of a start?

Not sure I want/need to find out.    

A week ago we were still halfway to D, settlement and all. I can't see much has changed.

GL

*hugs* Gina, I am so very, very sorry to hear about your father.  Yes, we are incredibly vulnerable at these times.  Please try to turn to people you know will really support you at this time.  My ex tried, but he was on a bad combination of meds when my Dad died, and he did so much trauma to me at that time when he had anxiety attacks and a psychotic episode two days before and four days after my Dad died, respectively.  The whole thing with the cat feels kind of like a cosmic "do over," in that it's cancer, it's unfolding similarly, etc.  I wonder if I reached out subconsiously to give the ex a "second chance" to be kind to me in a different crisis... .  hm... .  

Please take good care. 

[Changed4safety]

Reached a conclusion.  He wants to talk... .  sure.  I'm finding myself simply not focusing on this; focusing more on what I want, and my little cat and things other than him.  The crippling fear, the FOG, seems to have been dissipating.  So we'll talk.  And I won't be afraid.  What, really, do I have to be afraid of?  He can't control me.  He lives 1,000 miles away.  If he wants to walk out of my life, he can.  I'll get through the passing of my cat by myself. 

I'm not going to give in and quiver and try to please him.  We're going to talk calmly, like adults, and I'm going to behave like one.  And I'm not going to sit there searching for "Oh, no, what does he want me to do?  To say?  What must I do to not make him angry?"  If things get bad, I'm going to say, "You asked for me to show up for this? I did.  I'm feeling attacked now, and I choose not to be.  I can't change your desire to attack me, but I can decide that I don't want to listen to it.  We can try talking again later this week when we've calmed down."

Man... .  wow, I love seeing this, I love -believing- it.  And I'm going to poke my nose in here for support before we have this talk.    How lovely it is to... .  well, not "not worry completely" but to have some of the intensity taken out of it.  I really feel like I am making good strides.

[fakename]

I think in the time leading up to meeting him it may be a good idea to remember how far you've come and the reasons for that.

Also be aware of your limitations.

I know since my ex has been out of my life there is a brighter future ahead as log as I don't fall victim to her manipulation, false hopes and empty promises and keeping my boundaries. I promised myself I would never take her back cause I know it won't be good for me and because I know she is incapable of changing.

Everyone's situation is different and only you know what is best for yourself. Just remember to put yourself first. You've earned that.

[Discarded26]

They sure do

Me sort my head out = message off him 

[gina louise]

Changed4safety,

Since these talks can so swiftly go "south" and end poorly... .  here's what I do now.(especially with advance notice)

I make an outline-of topics I want to discuss and things I need to say. like an interview outline.

I try to stick to MY outline and not get steamrolled. I role play-try to anticipate roadblocks and detours. 

Meet ONLY in public, too.

GL

[Changed4safety]

Gina, he's 1,000 miles away, it will be phone or by AIM.  Basically I can disconnect any time I want to... .  also a "revelation" of sorts for me.  If I don't want to hear from him, I don't have to.  And all good advice!