Mind games-or my imagination?

[4now]

Hello,

Yesterday uBPDh said he would be home for dinner, after my asking.  I said, that makes me happy.  I wasn't very happy about the fact that he was working in the first place but was trying to be understanding.  Then dinner time came and went and no show.  Then I send a text to him about an hour after simply stating when are you going to be home. No answer.  Now, I realize this is where I should have let it go, but this really irks me.  So I called.  No answer.  Then I call again a little bit later.  No answer.  Then I text, why are you doing this?  No response.  Then I text him that he is being very inconsiderate and I always give him the consideration of texting him back or calling as soon as I can.

If I don't answer his call he usually texts within a minute, especially if I am not at home.  Then he called back within 10 minutes, but by that time I was just too frustrated to answer and talk.  Then he came home and just glared at me.  I told him he had no right to glare at me. 

Then we discuss the events of the evening.  Why didn't he at least call and say he'd be late?  First, it was because he didn't "even think about it."  Fabulous! How can a man who functions so well in so many areas of life just forget at dinner time to go home or call his wife and say he won't be home.  According to him, because he felt like I would give him "crap" about it.  Which, honestly, if he even believes that himself, is hog wash.  I don't even remember the last time he called to tell me he'd be late.  He just shows up when he wants.  He said I don't understand him and that if I did I wouldn't react like this. 

He also said I sat him up to fail by asking him when he'd be home for dinner.  I guess that is because I told him I could have predicted he wouldn't be home for dinner.  But at the time, I was asking a simple question and hoping that he would be home for dinner like he said.  I said, no you sat yourself up to fail by not keeping your  word or calling to say it wasn't going to work like you wanted.

I explained to him that the behavior seems terribly inconsiderate.  I would never do that to him.  To tell him I'd be home at a specific time and then repeatedly totally disregard what I had said.  This happens repeatedly and has for years now. I also explained that it creates a wound that won't heal for me when he does this.  I wish it didn't, that I could be totally unaffected by his behaviors, but I am not.  I am, after all, human. 

My problem with all of this is the affect it has on me.  I truly wish I didn't care.  I wish he would keep his word.  I wish he would call and inform me if something changes.  I wish he wouldn't make excuses for his current behavior by saying I did things in the past no one can even remember. I wish he would take responsibility for his behavior and quit doing things he so obviously knows are hurtful to me.  How can you rebuild a relationship with someone who has so little regard for how their behavior affects you? According to him I should have one emotion, just happiness with everything he does.  How can I trust him when his behavior is so inconsistent from one day to the next? How can I believe he is doing what he says he is doing if he is so evasive and non-responsive.  I have some trauma in that regard because of the times he has "left" me and all the time he has said he wants a divorce and didn't come home at night.  So yes, I have my damage that needs to healed but it can't heal with the constant re-opening of old wounds.

And what to do about the phone calls?  I think he would go crazy if I did that to him.  Especially if he knew I wasn't with the kids.  I hate the double standard.  That the phone only works one way.  From him to me.  I really would like to just not care and find a way to move on.  But there's always that glimmer of hope that keeps me hanging on.  But that just seems like fool's gold at this point.  Or an addiction.  I read a post the other day about it being like an addiction.  I do feel like unconsciously I am addicted.  Even though I hate it all and how it makes me feel.  Yet it's something I can't let go of and move on from.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Auspicious]

I read a post the other day about it being like an addiction.  I do feel like unconsciously I am addicted.  Even though I hate it all and how it makes me feel.  Yet it's something I can't let go of and move on from.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you've had an insight there yourself!     

It is something like an addiction. You are so focused on him, and if he would only ... .  yet you can't control him. He's going to do what he's going to do. You can control you.

What exactly you do about it is up to you. You might decide that you can't live with someone who acts this way. Or you might decide that you are going to plan dinner without him.

The key is your internal attitude - you are not being punitive; you are simply deciding what is the best thing to do, given the situation, keeping in mind that you are the only person that you can control.

Letting go of trying to control what you can't control is very freeing.

[benny2]

Yes they like to have all the control. Mine will call and text me constantly when I have a day off, but when he knows I'm at work, I barely hear from him. If I question him about his free time, well thats a whole different story.

[elemental]

just to validate you. Yes. He is jerking you around. He's a big boy. He knew what time it was. His actions were deliberate and intended to upset you in some way. If they weren't and you texted, he would have been remorseful and responded considerately to you.

The ignoring, silent treatment, lack of remorse. He paid you back by hurting you.


That being said, Auspicious is right.

[DreamerGirl]

4now, I know how you feel, I've had this happen to me a few times now.  I'm still in a pretty new relationship, just over a year, and Im worried it's going to be a pattern that will keep happening.  I was hoping to read some advice about how to stop it happening again but it seems like the choices are we either accept the behaviour and not let it effect us, or make it a boundary with consequences.

It is so frustrating how they can just have no regard for our feelings.  I am a girl of my word, so I find it incredibly hard when he says he will do something and then he lets me down.  I feel like he doesn't care, and maybe he doesn't? He knows this upsets me a lot, and says he's sorry but that hasn't stopped it happening.

About two weeks ago, he rang me to say he was on his way over to see me, and would be here within 20 minutes.  He knew I didn't have a whole lot of time, before I started work but said he just needed a quick hug and kiss. I was excited and really looking forward to a quick catchup. So, I waited and waited, until the time finally came that I had to leave for work and I had that sinking feeling, that I've had too many times already, knowing he let me down, and I will probably just let him get away with it. 

He didn't even bother to text or ring me and explain why he didn't turn up.  He acted sheepish the next day,when I asked him why he did that, and he had a very lame excuse and he said "I don't like letting you down".  But no matter what I say, I know he will do it again. I need to change my attitude, as well.

[4now]

Thanks those of you who responded. Sometimes I feel like I post things and people read them and wonder what is the big deal.  It's just this is habitual.  I mean, like years.  It's just now that the new added element of him not answering any attempt at communication with me really, really frustrates me. I consider it very inconsiderate and incredibly rude.  If I did that the you know what would hit the fan I am sure.  Plus, after all the times when he has "left me" and stayed in hotels for the night, all the hot and the cold behaviors, all the wonderful BPD stuff, has created a terrible state of insecurity within me.  Who wouldn't feel this way, really? 

He did apologize initially, but those are empty words to me at this point.  I explained in no uncertain terms how hurt it makes me feel and why I feel such hurt over it.  He  said it wasn't intentional, that he didn't do it on purpose, etc which I guess on some level I believe.  However, I am not ready to get over it and just forget about it.  He's done this one too many times and always makes excuses for his behaviors and never truly acknowledges what he has done and how it hurts me.  Typical BPD behavior, I know. 

Even yesterday, after talking in the morning and him thinking it was all worked out, he came home and wanted me to be happy go lucky and all smiles.  Well, that wasn't going to happen because this all hit me like a ton of bricks and the severity of everything wrong just weighed me down like a black cloud yesterday.  His response when I told him I was still sad and tired over everything. First, that he wasn't going to put  up with "it". Talk about control. That I couldn't have my emotion and be upset. Next, maybe I should leave.  What he meant, I don't know if it was for an hour, a few days, indefinitely.  My response: of course you would chose to run away and not deal with anything. 

It just sucks that I can only have one emotion with him.  Complete and utter happiness with whatever he does, says, etc.  Well, that's not even possible.  I have the right to feel stress, unhappiness, disappointment, the whole gamut of human emotions.  He wants to take that away from me. 

At this point, he wants me to just get over it and move ahead like nothing happened.  While I am not one for wanting to drag it out, in the past I have just gotten over it and accepted his minimal attempts to smooth things over and him just giving me the absolute minimum needed to maintain the rs.  That hasn't helped change anything so I guess I need a different approach.  Right now I don't want to just get over it and move forward as nothing happened. I feel like that continues the push/pull cycle that we are constantly in.  So I will be civil, I will speak when spoken to, I won't cause any argument or intentional drama.  I will give him his space and just enough rope to see what he will do with it.  Maybe he will think it is better for him to leave.  I will let him leave.  I will let him see that's okay with me.  Maybe it is better that way, anyway. 

In addition to all of that, I forgot to mention the fact that he showered after getting home on the day he didn't respond while working, which is unusual for him.  He does "work" like that all the time and rarely showers in the evening. But that day he needed to.  Plus, that morning I saw a receipt where something had been written on it in pencil then scribbled over in pen.  It was left where I would see it.  Why scribble something out, obviously you want it to be a secret, so why not just throw it away or keep it where I wouldn't see it.  Seriously?  Does any of that seem unintentional?  How could someone be so bright in other areas of life, but be so "clueless" as to how these other things might affect someone else.  Is it any wonder I am an anxiety ridden ball of nerves most of the time?

[4now]

I just don't know what to do because it is a wound that won't heal for me.  I feel anxious, hurt, disrespected and like he's up to no good when he does this to me.  I feel without a complete and utter stop to this type of behavior, I will continue to suffer and I can't do that to myself any longer.  That is my boundary.  I just don't know if I should even give him one more shot at this point.  Should I detach and sit back and see if he makes any meaningful attempts at change?  Or just detach and make my exit plan?

[slimmiller]

In addition to all of that, I forgot to mention the fact that he showered after getting home on the day he didn't respond while working, which is unusual for him.  He does "work" like that all the time and rarely showers in the evening. But that day he needed to.  Plus, that morning I saw a receipt where something had been written on it in pencil then scribbled over in pen.  It was left where I would see it.  Why scribble something out, obviously you want it to be a secret, so why not just throw it away or keep it where I wouldn't see it.  Seriously?  Does any of that seem unintentional?  How could someone be so bright in other areas of life, but be so "clueless" as to how these other things might affect someone else.  Is it any wonder I am an anxiety ridden ball of nerves most of the time?

To me this is a big  Im not trying to alarm you. Do you think he is capable of being unfaithful to you? I remember all too well when I was exactly where you are.

He certainly has you on edge and in a way 'disregulated' as they love to do to you. It seems like they throw us nons into chaos but in reality that chaos is exactly where they dwell all the time. So when we are in chaos, it levels the playing field for them... :'(

[Rainey]

    In my experience so far... .  It is a simple matter of   HE JUST DID NOT THINK OF YOU, and it just SUCKS, right?   ANd that is the way it is and always will be because of his disease!  SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS

The question is for you... .  What do I need to do to be happy? CHange my expectation? Leave him? Ignore him? Love him?   LIfe is short. Make it a happy one.  

[elemental]

my ex husband has ADHD. We didn't discover it until he was over 30 years old. Prior to that I nearly went mad over his disappearances, the late arrivals, forgetful behavior.

And he never had an attitude about it. He was always very abject, but his behavior never changed an iota until he began treatment for the disorder. Even then...

ADHD is often associated with other disorders, OCD, Tourettes, depression, anxiety. And I imagine a guy who is having other problems could get pretty cranky and defensive when he has no "good" reason for hyperfocusing to the degree he loses track of time. There was a joke in my ex's family that he was the "late great Mark, who was a day late for his own birth".

Which he was.

Do you think maybe he has ADHD? Just a thought.  

[Auspicious]

Of course his behavior is wrong. Totally inconsiderate, not OK. Of course.

That said, you have no power over his behavior. You have power over your behavior.

You get to choose whether you want to stay with him at all. You get to choose how much time and energy you put into doing things for him, or not.

Only you can make those choices. They are not easy choices!      

[4now]

Okay, so I can't believe I did this, but I smelled his shirt he was wearing that day. I hate that I even felt compelled to do that, but alas I did. Well, it smelled like really strong garlic or onion odor, ie cooking.  So I sent him a text and stated I know you were doing something else on Sunday so why not just admit it.  Just be honest, I said. 

Finally, he calls me back and is all defensive about it and saying, what are you checking on me?  I said, well I just know.  Didn't tell him how.  So then he says he went to see friends, first he named one then another. Which live no where close to each other.  I mean 45 miles apart.  He said it so quick I said, what did you say? Then he wouldn't repeat it.  I think he was lying about that one too.  The way he said it was off.  Then he just went into saying he can't communicate with me, he can't tell me the truth of what he is doing because I will react badly etc.  So I reply, so it's all my fault you lied and weren't doing what you said you were doing? He said, no I take responsibility, etc.  Then he started in with this doesn't work, I will get my ___, etc.  Oh brother.  I don't want to cave.  I want to think, well, if we just find a way to communicate etc.  But this all happened in the middle of us having a "relatively" good period.  Makes me feel crappy either way.  If he did just have dinner with friends, he still stood me up.  If it wasn't "friends" and someone else... .  I think it needs to be done. 

[briefcase]

It just sucks that I can only have one emotion with him.  Complete and utter happiness with whatever he does, says, etc.  Well, that's not even possible.  I have the right to feel stress, unhappiness, disappointment, the whole gamut of human emotions.  He wants to take that away from me. 

Its really not possible to live like this without doing a lot of damage to yourself.  You have a right to your own emotions.  That said, tools like SET and DEARMAN do provide a better framework for expressing some of these emotions/needs.  Sometimes, we just have to say what's on our minds and what we are feeling, regardless of how we think our partners will take it.   

[Rainey]

I wonder if he's not "testing" you ?   If he shows anger when you suspect lying he may be testing your limits? Trying to control your emotions , actions, and words.  He doesn"t want you to be angry at him for neglecting you. He may put intense guilt and shame on himself to see if you will reach down, pick him up, and make it all-better. By making it better you may choose to drop the subject and carry on. I have come to realiize This is NOT healthy    in my opinion!

Although I can see this particular pattern as I, too, have experienced this same behavior with my bp I wish I had an answer     

[waverider]

Constant suspicion and trying to dig out the truth will stress you even more than the truth will. It will also pollute everything you hear or believe whether true or not.

Separating his stuff from your stuff is something you can do. Trying to get a pwBPD to be totally honest with you is something you will struggle to achieve.

Somethings you can change by using boundaries about how things affect you. Somethings you need to just Accept as just is. Trying to bring everything to a central place of acceptable normal behavior will drive you nuts.

Mind games? Probably but you can choose whether to play or not. The mind games are just a natural defense mechanism to protect a dysfunction behavioral pattern, as opposed to a deliberate terror campaign, even though it feels otherwise.

[4now]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I really love the people here.  I have been really struggling with this latest episode, debating my own sanity. 

Anyway, an update.  He came home and we talked.  The conclusion was basically that he was right, or at least justified, and I was at fault because he couldn't communicate with me because he doesn't trust me.  At this point, he was all divorce, divorce, divorce.  I say, well, if that's your choice you should go.  Him: I don't have anywhere to go and we don't have money for another place right now.  I reiterate that he should leave if that is his choice.  Then I get ready to leave to pick up one of the kid's from school, he goes to make himself some lunch.  Then I leave and come back.  He is in the recliner.  I ask, did something change?  Him: I don't have anywhere to go.  A while later he comes and tells me that he will leave on Monday.  Which is 5 days away.  The thought of him coming and going for five days sends me into orbit, so I ended up screaming that he just needed to leave.  He seemed totally taken aback by that and called me crazy.  Perhaps I am, but jeez, how is someone supposed to act when they have been wronged and the person wronging them doesn't see it and gets to play the victim?  I told him this also.  Then, I calm myself a bit, try to talk to him and say that if he needs until Monday, that's fine, but I won't be here just waiting and wondering if he's going to change his mind etc.  He says he won't change his mind.  Then I start to tear up, and he asks why do I care?  Why can't I just let him go?  I explain that it all seems so dumb, that we can't just make it work, that he can't just give a little and I could give a little and we could go on and make it work.  Then we make up, etc. He finally agrees to not lie about his whereabouts again and that we will work on rebuilding trust.  Happy Ending!  Or so you thought, but keep reading,.

Then a few hours later, with him drinking as the time passes, he begins a conversation about this woman he works with and their shady work dealings.  He wanted some advice about getting her out of the picture.  But basically there's no way without him going down too.  Then he says he has a plan but it involves manipulating another woman he works with to help him. I suggest maybe he should take an honest approach or at least not manipulate her.  Then he starts insulting me saying it's so easy because I am in the house and I don't have to worry about making the money.  Now, I realize I don't have that stress and I don't probably know what it's truly like.  However, what I do know is that there are lots and lots of people out there who are able to make a living without doing unethical things.  So I say he is making an excuse for his behavior.  Well, that really made the you know what hit the fan.  Now, in hindsight, this was a bad choice.  However, I think I am fed up with him just justifying every little thing he does.  If he does it, it's right.  If I do it, it's wrong.  Then he says he'd love it if I would work and he would work and we could just pay our bills so he didn't have to do the shady stuff. I said, yes that would be awesome.  We can work differing shifts so we don't have to pay childcare for our THREE kids.  Then he turned the tables and said that was my excuse.  WHAT? I said I will work.  I actually want to work.  But not if my paycheck is going to childcare.  I will work 2nd shift, even midnights, weekends, whatever, but I don't want to work and make $4 an hour after childcare.  Then he says my Mom can watch the kids.  UMMM, my mom lives three hours away and works herself.  He says we can move.  He says I can have friends watch them.  Well, sure a little but not for free.  I should have seen the train wreck that was happening, but I didn't.  Then he started blaming me saying he started the conversation to talk about one thing and I ended it by kicking his butt.  It was an hour long conversation that took many turns from both of us.  Then he said how is he supposed to trust me if I end kicking his butt.  So now my brain is numb.  I tried to apologize for saying something hurtful, ie that he was making excuses, but he wouldn't hear it.  I am sure it was invalidating on my part.  But really how do you validate the semi-absurd after being invalidated and insulted yourself? 

Do you ever feel like you are going crazy?  Like nothing makes any logical sense and when you try and follow their train of thought and/ or defend yourself it ends up being a total trip to another realm?

[waverider]

Do you ever feel like you are going crazy?  Like nothing makes any logical sense and when you try and follow their train of thought and/ or defend yourself it ends up being a total trip to another realm?

Yes as long as you are in there trying to make sense out of a personality disorder

There is no logical consistency, even in his own mind it will fluctuate. You could agree to everything he says today, but tomorrow you would be in the wrong as his plans and reasonings would change. You are chasing cloud shadows

Again this advise

Constant suspicion and trying to dig out the truth will stress you even more than the truth will. It will also pollute everything you hear or believe whether true or not.

Separating his stuff from your stuff is something you can do. Trying to get a pwBPD to be totally honest with you is something you will struggle to achieve.

Somethings you can change by using boundaries about how things affect you. Somethings you need to just Accept as just is. Trying to bring everything to a central place of acceptable normal behavior will drive you nuts.

Mind games? Probably but you can choose whether to play or not. The mind games are just a natural defense mechanism to protect a dysfunction behavioral pattern, as opposed to a deliberate terror campaign, even though it feels otherwise.

[daylily]

Hi 4now,

I'm sorry you're going through this!    

Learning how to cope and communicate in a relationship with a pwBPD is a whole new language, a way of life, that's so contrary to the core ouf our being.  When someone is disrespecting us, we want to yell at them, find a way to convince them to see our side and stop hurting us.  But that doesn't work for us because we have chosen to be in relationships with pwBPD.  They may never see our side of things.  They may never stop disrespecting us.  So we have to decide, if I want to stay in this relationship, what can I do to make my life better that doesn't involve changing him?  I know that's hard to hear because it doesn't seem fair that you should have to change if he's the one behaving badly.  But here's the deal - you'll be changing for the better.  This benefits you.

The first step is to stop making things worse by JADEing and yelling.  The second step is to really think about what you want and who you are.  I expect less from my uBPDh than I would from a non.  I have to.  Expecting more would be setting myself up for disappointment.  I can ask him in a moment of quiet, using SET, for what I want, but even that's no guarantee that it's going to be followed.  Fortunately right now my H is not (that I know of) participating in any behaviors that I would consider "dealbreakers" so I'm staying in my relationship.  But otherwise, I accept that I'm not going to change him and that I have to live my own life more so than maybe I'd like sometimes. 

It sounds like you may be a little isolated being home with the kids when he's working.  Isolation just feeds obsessive thoughts.  Can you have a friend come over for dinner so if he doesn't come home it isn't as hurtful to you?  This assumes he's not doing something that might be a dealbreaker for you, like maybe cheating?

I don't think your H wants to leave.  My H threatens that and talks the ":)" word, but what he really is thinking is "How could she possibly want to be with someone like me?"  And the more I gripe and yell at him, the more inadequate he feels.

  Daylily

[4now]

Thanks again everyone for the advice and the support. 

Daylily-I really don't believe he is cheating.  I just have a sense about this, I could be dead wrong.  It's just that his secretiveness indicates a secret and I am just left with no information to base my thoughts on.  I explained this to him, that it's much better for him just to be honest with me and let me deal with my feelings about it than to lie.  I told him I am not stupid and I know when you are lying.  I just know.  This seemed to sink in.  So we shall see.  So far today he has been in communication, which is a good start. 

Isolation is big for me.  Plus I have been super busy with school, all online, so I don't just have the time to get out and go do things.  But I need to do this.  I am hoping that with spring almost here I can do that.  It's not good for me and the kids just to sit around the house on the weekends. 

I wonder if anyone could offer some insight for me on this, though.  Which may need to be a new thread entirely.  It seems as though we go through this over and over.  This topic in particular, but others as well.  The pressure builds and you can sense it building, but how do you dissipate it?  How do you stop the cycle when it is already in progress?  If that makes sense. What do those of you who succeed at this do?  Do you meditate, get a massage, I need specific ideas of how to stop myself from participating in this emotional roller coaster.