The boundaries are up... now what?

[NonBPDaughter]

I have been working with my therapist on establishing "boundaries" with my UBPD mum as part of a solution to the physical ailments i have from the stress of dealing with her over the years. Limiting contact, changing my self talk, letting go of the guilt, not rescuing her or problem solving for her. Keeping interaction short, sweet and surface. I am meditating, relaxing and have received some hypnotherapy to build my confidence and to equip me to deal with stress. But i have to ask, now what?

Undoubtedly I am still in the grief stage. My mother barely acknowledges my existence usually. Calls and texts are filled with whatever problems shes having and never, never does she say "how are you? hows your business going, your husband, your marriage" ! I am just a listener on the end of the line, its all one way traffic. There are no conversations filled with love and laughter and happiness. She knows i am building boundaries... .  shes calls it "distancing" myself, she cant understand what shes done wrong to deserve this treatment from me. But i just cant listen to it any more. If just once she called to shoot the breeze, see how things were going. Just once! I just cant comprehend how she can not care, not ask, not want to know how her first born is doing! I go in circles thinking how can she not ask me, i wait for her to do so. It never happens. I swear it has to be a deliberate, conscious decision on her part.

The knack these BPs have for twisting events! They twist them in just the right way that we are backed into a corner, that there is only a lose-lose situation for us. Inadvertently we confirm to them their truths. I am damned if i do and damned if i dont! i feel, that at some point i will have to confront this, the elephant in the room. I have never encountered anyone with the conviction that my mum has, she is so so sure that she is right, from small things, like the color of something, to much larger things, you will only have a baby to spite me; that i dont actually know how to say a damned thing to her! If she made up her mind that the sky was green and the grass was blue she would cut you out of her life in a second rather than accept that it wasnt so.

But now what? Do i just keep to this surface level interaction? At some point she will "punish" me, rage, suicidal threats, badmouth me to my father and sister. Nothing new. But long term, where do i go from here. If there were periods of respite, good moods, positivity, lightheartedness then maybe it would be different. But how do i move forward with her if all she is is those things im putting up boundaries for? How do i navigate the inevitable confrontation that is brewing? At some point i will have to deal with her! At the moment i can barely bring myself to speak to her. Im open to advice! x

[susiecue]

It takes a lot of time and hard work to get your senses back.  I didn't find out my mother was a classic BPD until while seeing my therapist and explained issues I was having with her that he explained the condition.  I read up on some books about this disorder and stories other survivors have had and it has helped me understand better. 

My therapist always says not to attack back but to speak in a factual manner and if you see they are going to start ranting and it wont stop simply say (if on the phone) "I see that I am not going to be able to talk to you. I will call another day when you are more calm, I love you, bye." then hang up.  Turn the ringer off and DO NOT READ EMAILS OR LISTEN TO VOICEMAILS since they will have a way of getting you too and its actually her way of still ranting at you even if its to the voicemail because she thinks you have to listen. 

If you are in her presence and have a way to leave, do so.  When you set boundaries you really don't have to verbally inform them.  I didn't ever tell my mother I was setting up boundaries I only said that I will talk to you when you are more calm.  I also gave her an ultimatum once.  I told her that if the conversation started getting heated and I hung up the phone I would not be answering for a long time.  I did follow through and that was extremely hard as well since we spoke almost everyday. 

I have limited our conversations.  I sometimes don't feel comfortable answering her calls so I don't.  You have to protect your own feelings and life so sometimes this means limitations on things that cause chaos...

Hope this helps!

[NonBPDaughter]

Thanks Susiecue. The hard part is, she has zero insight. Like, some people know that when they have certain reactions or emotions, its not really normal. But she has zero ability to recognise it. And, less than recogonise it, she cant even make the link that for her own sake surely theres more to life than being in a constant state of crisis? She doesnt even want to help her self for her own piece of mind!

[susiecue]

Don't feel bad, neither does mine.  She actually went to the extent to tell me that her psychiatrist said that me saying she was BPD was just hogwash.  Therapists aren't going to say that. She doesn't see it either but I just have to remind myself to be careful and NOT be sucked into her chaotic world.

Keep your eyes on this website though because it can be a HUGE help.  It has really helped me since I found this disorder.

Keep your head up, stay strong, and keep those boundaries solid and be true to your own health.  Having to deal with chaos like that constantly can cause you health problems so take care of YOU first.  No one else will.

[Santa Clara]

Hello,

Your story sounds just like my story right now.  I recently started therapy for the first time.  I realize I have been setting boundries for a long time now but at the moment I am re-establishing boundries. It is much harder than I thought.

I think I must also be grieving. I am ok and then suddenly feel like crying.  I feel like I have recenty lost my Mum (although we have lived in seperate countries for 20 years now) and am very tired.

From what I understand keeping surface level interaction is the key.

But is is hard admitting to oneself that ones mother is never going to be the loving mother we have in our fantasy (at least I think that is what is happening to me).

Big hugs to you.

[AbbyNormal]

  NonBPDaughter

I am in the same place and I have been practicing the same coping strategies as you. Communicating with my mom is draining---soul sucking really. I am new to this site and, when I wrote my first post last week, I mentioned that I'm questioning where this is all going. I relate to you mentioning that any periods of respite might ease things a bit but getting to that place is unlikely. I've been asking myself what I'm fighting for and what I'm hoping to preserve out of this relationship.

I wonder if people further along in recovery than I am have any insight into this. What does it feel like when one has been practicing these coping strategies for 5, 10 or even more years? Is this as good as it gets?

[Clearmind]

I have been working with my therapist on establishing "boundaries" with my UBPD mum as part of a solution to the physical ailments i have from the stress of dealing with her over the years. Limiting contact, changing my self talk, letting go of the guilt, not rescuing her or problem solving for her. Keeping interaction short, sweet and surface. I am meditating, relaxing and have received some hypnotherapy to build my confidence and to equip me to deal with stress. But i have to ask, now what?

Good for you!

But now what? Do i just keep to this surface level interaction? At some point she will "punish" me, rage, suicidal threats, badmouth me to my father and sister. Nothing new. But long term, where do i go from here. If there were periods of respite, good moods, positivity, lightheartedness then maybe it would be different. But how do i move forward with her if all she is is those things im putting up boundaries for? How do i navigate the inevitable confrontation that is brewing? At some point i will have to deal with her! At the moment i can barely bring myself to speak to her. Im open to advice! x

I feel your hurt NonBPDaughter.  Firstly, I hope you realize that none of this is your fault. You are not those things she says.

Moving forward, if she begins to talk about her woes, we don’t need to listen, we can politely get off the phone. Is it possible to let her know how you makes you feel that she doesn’t ask how you are? Its important we also convey our needs.

Can you help me understand what you mean about the confrontation brewing?

[NonBPDaughter]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Its so nice to be able to be so open about things and not like a complete loony yourself! Or having to spend an hour trying to explain what BPD is!

Clearmind, I am so thankful to you for all your replies! The confrontation I was alluding to is at some point, its already happened once, is that she will say "why are you so distant, why are you ignoring me" and so on. My mother has gotten herself to a very sad state. She has no friends, no husband/partner/companion. She made a choice to move thosands of km's away to the other side of the country, knowing noone, Her work situation is very rocky due to her constant perception and insistence that she is always being bullied or victimized. She isnt financially healthy either. Of course this is all everyone elses fault, she is the helpless victim. Putting up boundaries help me, yes, but doesnt do a thing to alter her behaviour.

Especially in the last few years i have noticed apart from the crazy parts, she is just very bitter, unhappy and angry. Nothing is ever talked about in a nice positive way, there is no enjoyment. It is very draining. This also makes it very hard for her to hear when things are going well for me. She is openly resentful, this makes it hard to. She feels like "what would you know" type of thing.

She also has zero insight. There is no way she could fathom that her behaviour is hurtful, or not normal. She really honestly believes that she can and does do no wrong what so ever. If i was to say, "mum, i love you but youre exhausting me with your negativity" it would all be on me... .  theres no ownership or responsibility or insight at all.

As for getting what i need, i guess i get it in other places. I am very close to my in laws (you can imagine how this goes down) and friends. Even today i mentioned: "my business is going well" and her reply was "i have to go and get ready for work". Nothing!

AbbyNormal we will just have to stick together to get through this! xxx

[Clearmind]

The confrontation I was alluding to is at some point, its already happened once, is that she will say "why are you so distant, why are you ignoring me" and so on. My mother has gotten herself to a very sad state. She has no friends, no husband/partner/companion. She made a choice to move thosands of km's away to the other side of the country, knowing noone, Her work situation is very rocky due to her constant perception and insistence that she is always being bullied or victimized. She isnt financially healthy either. Of course this is all everyone elses fault, she is the helpless victim.

Got you!

What I don’t like to hear are the times when we feel like we are living in constant fear of the fall out. I feel for you because I too was at that point.

With time comes the ability to be certain and confident in our boundaries and relinquishing the guilt that always seems to come with looking out for ourselves. Self trust will go along way to help you protect yourself if there is a fall out.

In a way we have spent a lifetime planning for it. Are we any better at “handling” them – not really! I only say that because until now we were not certain how to deal with it – we now have some tools.

S.E.T – Support, Empathy, Truth can help to convey those difficult to hear truths. I’ve always found this example of SET easy to follow.

S:  "Mom, I know you may not understand or agree with me, but I really do care for you, and want us to get along better."

E:  "It really must be frustrating for you when you feel that I'm not understanding you, even though I'm really trying."

T:  "Mom, it's probably really hard for people to get close to you, when they feel that there is always conflict. It doesn't matter whose fault you think it is; when it turns to anger, most people pull away.

Source: www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201303/secrets-set-supportempathytruth-statements

Can you see how this may help?

[NonBPDaughter]

Well Clearmind. It happened. Predictably. I called my mum today and se attacked. And that's it. I am DONE. all this, I've spent thousands on a psychology. I have written, an prepared and put up boundaries and done all this and at the end of the day what good is it? It doesn't change her behavior one bin. In fact it gets worse and she has to fight harder and harder for a reaction. Well she got one this morning. I think the term "exploding" pretty Much covers it. After a week of semi normal texts and Facebook messages I called her to have a normal conversation. Ha. Yeah right. I tried SET. fat lot of good that did. That doesn't take into account the fact you're conversing with a complete loony. I just couldn't hold it in anymore. The physical symptoms returned immediately. Vomiting, shaking, trouble speaking. Headache. The best way to describe it is, I felt like I wanted to stick my head under the front tyres Of a car!

Of course the text messages followed. All victim centred of course. I tried SET again, almost verbatim what you suggested. Not sure if it worked. But you know what. I discovered MY bottom line. I am fed up. I am over it. I have set my final boundary. She has to get some help or that's it. My relationship with her is now conditional. If she wants a relationship with me she has to get help. I can help myself all day long but until she does something there will be no end in sight.

Thank you for your advice and kind words. It was nice having the invisible support. Thanks everyone. X

[Clearmind]

Hugs to you NonBPDaughter - outburst are pretty predictable when we have witnessed countless times.

Boundaries protect you - they don't change her - as much as we hoped they would.

If she attacked you over the phone - please hang up and simply state "I will talk to you when you have calmed down" Period! It gets to a point of no return NonBPDaughter - we hang onto the lifeline for too long, allow them to carry on too long before we set a firm boundary.

I'm sorry it escalated - how are you doing emotionally?

[mindfulness]

Totally feel your pain. I've been enforcing "boundaries" for the past few years with my uBPD mom as well. Unfortunately, it hasn't been as peaceful as it has for you. It's been constant raging, punishment through no-contact, starting fights at every turn. I love what Clearmind said about boundaries protecting you and not changing her. I think that is a hard thing for children of BPD to accept. It's hard to accept that we can't get what we need from our parents-- we want to believe there is a way, if we just change how we act maybe they'll change. I think this is a big part of what I worked on in therapy. Understanding that I can't change her, all I can do is change myself and figure out how I want to move forward in my life knowing that she will never be the mother I want. As it sounds like from your later posts -- everyone has their bottom line, and that is also a big piece of it. For me, I think my bottom line came when my mother started meddling in my relationship. I am newly married, and not only was she not at any point since I met my husband ever happy for me, but she made so many attempts to sabotage my relationship (covertly and in a way that she could easily deny, of course). She would always try to drag my husband into fights, attack him as a way of drawing me into battle with her, criticize and denigrate him to me... .  and every time I stand up to her behavior or set boundaries, she blames it on him (he's "turning me against her" of course). It sounds cheesy, but I love my husband so much, I just could not tolerate her doing to this him or the thought of what it would do to our relationship. My parents growing up had a very triangulated relationship -- I'm an only child and my mother constantly turned me against my father, doing what may be irreparable damage to our relationship which I am only now starting to try to fix -- so I saw how much damage a manipulative BPD can do to a loved one's relationship that he/she is jealous of. And I knew, that was my bottom line.

You are on such a good path right now, hard as it is to see. I feel your pain and know what you are going through. Grieving is a good word to use. When my therapist first started telling me I was grieving it was hard for me to accept I was going through something so intense--I thought grieving was what you do when someone dies? Then I realized how true it was. I was repressing a lot of emotion because I didn't want to accept the truth about my mother's inability to be a real mother. Sounds like you have been through the same thing.

Not sure what else to tell you that will help other than you are NOT ALONE. Maybe it's just me but I have found this message board so helpful in learning how similar others' experiences have been. What you described could have been a page from my life. You are doing great, and if this is the beginning of an NC stage -- just welcome it. That's what I've learned to do. As painful as it may be, it also means not having to hear her BS drama for however long :

[Louise7777]

Seems we are all in the same boat. I feel sorry for all the people who had to deal with BPD´s. I have 2 undiagnosed in my family. Its amazing to see how long they want to get their goals, no matter how much destruction they caused on others.

From my experience I can only say that they are fine with it, they will never change since its good for them to have victims to suck the blood from. If you set boundaries and go NC they will find another victim and have no consideration at all for your feelings, they are very selfish.

Dont dwell on "how come she/he doesnt care for me, how come she/he doesnt ask me how im doing"... .  That will NEVER happen! They are not normal, period! Thats a sad statement, but after decades of dealing with them I realized theres no empathy, only anger and mean behaviour. Im not surprised your mom wants to damage your marriage, they are perverse, as long as it suits them, its fine!

Sometimes we just need a reality check to move on, Im sorry if I was blunt, but I really hope u realized they dont change and avoid getting hurt as I was... .  

[NonBPDaughter]

Thanks everyone for the kind words and the support. I know that you are all right! Admittedly i do feel less stressed, the raging has been going on for a few days and ive not felt the need to try and pacify, rescue or continue the argument! So i guess thats a win.

Cristina, i know youre right! Its great that youre so blunt... . i think im getting to that point too. I know if its not me its someone else.

Mindfulness im sorry its been so hard for you too. Ive seen my mum destroy my sisters relationships. Thank you so much for your support! It definitely makes it easier.

Shes been quiet for about 24 hours now... . and im waiting the next attack! Thanks for your support guys! Im not fearing it this time! x

[Louise7777]

Sorry if I was too blunt, actually. I guess I reached my limit and was so exahusted that I cant deal with them anymore. But I found many useful advices here on how to deal with them (sometimes theres no other way or its a very close relative). I wish everybody the best.