An Apology- I

[sheepdog]

I have been on this board for a while now but kind of laying low.  My relationship with my pwBPD ended on August 1st.  I have not spoken a word to him.  I am better for it.

But, now the Pandora's box is all the way open and I am really struggling.  It has nothing to do with missing him - I don't and want him as far away from me as possible.  It all has to do with my overwhelming, permeating toxic shame.

This is going to be long.  When I came to this board, I told everyone my pwBPD was my friend.  And that was partly true.  But we had also had a physical relationship.  It had ended a few months before I found this board and due to the shame I didn't want anyone to call me a whore or tear me down.  I already do that well enough on my own and I was scared.

I met my pwBPD 4 or 5 years ago.  We worked together.  I am married.  Happily married.  I love my husband with all of my heart.  I know you don't believe that but I do.  And I understand why you don't or wouldn't.  At first, BPD and I were just friends and hung out in big groups of people.  He told me I was the nicest person ever, that I inspired him, that he felt safe around me... .   all the things I apparently lapped up like some stupid little puppy.  He knew I was married.  He had hung out with my husband.  He knew I was happy.

After several months, it shifted a little.  He started saying how depressed he was, how he wanted to kill himself.  I will never forget how he called me one night when my h was out of town and told me he was driving through a thunderstorm (and there was a horrible storm that night) and how he hoped the car would tailspin and how he wanted to die.  I tried to talk to him and he hung up on me and I called him for hours and he never responded.  Or the time that he told me he was doing it, killing himself right then, he had had enough.  Same thing - he turned his phone off for hours.  Both times when he called back he sounded tired but was all 'I'm so sorry.  Didn't mean to scare you.  I could never leave you.  You keep me alive.'

One day he texted me that he was madly in love with me and had been for months.  I just said, "No you're not.  You just think you are because you're going through a rough time."  He was thinking of seperating from his wife of ten years.  He got angry abut I told him, "You don't love me.  Cut it out.  I'm already taken."  We talked it through and then he thanked me for accepting it and being so kind.

He started sharing all kinds of things about his life, his past (which some of it is psycopath in nature - but at the time I was just thinking, "Whoa, this guy has overcome so much!  And HE thinks *I* am amazing."     )

And I, who never really shares *anything* with others started telling him things.  We were both first-generation, the children of immigrants.  He understood that part of me as no one else ever had.  He liked all the same things I liked.  He know music is my life and I love words, poetry, literature and he started wooing me with poetry and music.  I felt like I had finally found that best friend that has alluded me.  Yes, my husband is my bff but I always felt like you're supposed to have an outside bff - don't know if that is making sense?

He was hell-bent and determined to find out 'my number.'  I don't know why he was so stuck on this but he was.  After constant wearing down, I told him the truth - I had only had sex with my husband.  He was incredulous.  I admitted that I actually had to have surgery to even be able for that to happen but also because I had always wanted to save myself for my husband.  We started talking about the surgery and without getting too personal I told him that there is a condition that makes you have to open up that area (I can not believe I am saying it on here - I have not even told my therapist this).  It's called vaginismus.  So of course he looks it up and becomes the vaginismus expert.  He reads that one of the reasons could be because of abuse.  I admitted I had flashbacks from childhood but have no clear memory.  I told him that.  Something that personal.  I talked to him about my mom and other people I love who have passed away.  I told him things I thought he would keep sacred.  He didn't. 

I don't know, I started getting sucked in.  Little by little, I started getting sucked in.  Having feelings for him.  I was keeping him alive.  I was amazing.  I'm a person's reason for getting up in the morning.     I never acted on anything and never would.

One day, he texted me and told me again how crazy he was about me, how he just loved me so much.  How he could tell I felt something for him too.  How we could be amazing.  He was like, "Please?"  I wrote back and said, "I am really touched but you need to know that you and I are never, ever, ever going to happen.  I'm sorry.  But we can always be in each other's lives as friends."  He waited a few minutes then wrote back, "Oh.  Okay, i have to go now sheepdog, I'm not feeling so good." (If I had a nickel for every time he said that.)

The next day at work, he didn't show up.  Would not answer his phone.  Eight hours later, he still would not answer calls or texts.  So I texted him and said, "Okay!  I may have feelings for you.  Please let me know you're okay."  Twenty seconds later he texts back and is all like, "You love me?  Are you saying you love me?"  I said, "I don't know what I'm saying, just tell me that you're okay."  He wrote back that he was the happiest man in the world and that he had to sleep cause he'd been up all day and night.

We had a loong conversation about it and I told him that I loved my husband and that nothing could happen and that I was confused and to back off.  He said he understood and would honor that.  He did, for a while.

And then one night, (my h was out of town) he brought it up again.  I told him no and that he needed to stop.  He said okay and would go home.  We stood and hugged and then he started kissing my neck.  I felt like everything went nuts and I shoved him out the door and said "You need to leave now."  He left.  He texted me five minutes later and he said, "Can we talk about what just happened?  I'm still sitting in your parking lot."  I said okay.  (I KNOW!  So Stupid!) He came back up, we talked for two minutes then he was all over me and saying things and kissing me and touching me.  I know you are thinking, "Well, it's not you were probably just laying there."  But it was exactly like that.  I kissed back somewhat if his lips touched mine but I did nothing.  After a while, I told him he needed to go.  He left.  He came back up five minutes later and said that his car battery had died and asked if he could stay.  I pushed my car keys at him and closed the door.

We did not have sex.  We never have had sex.

The next day, I woke up and I literally wanted to die.  My husband was out of town and I had no one else.  So I called BPD.  Crying.  Hysterical.  He said he was so sad because he had woken up that day thinking it was the greatest day in the world.  He said he was sorry and reminded me he had my car and he would bring it back.

Wow, this is a lot of backstory and I have not gotten to the issue yet.  I will just end the backstory by saying that for various reasons, he and I stopped the physical aspect of it about 10 months before we stopped being friends for good.  He knew, the entire time, how it was making me depressed, feeling like I wanted to die.  He knew I feared abandonment, felt worthless. 

Something you need to know about me.  I really have not done anything majorly 'bad' ever in my life.  Ironically, that is one of the things my pwBPD was attracted to... .   my light, my goodness - that's what the fat liar said anyway.  That is gone now.  But, truly, I am just kind of clean-cut, very strict upbringing, didn't even touch a drop of alchohol until college and don't really drink a lot, try to be nice to everyone, never bullied.  I'm not tooting my horn.  Just saying how I was. 

Another thing is that my faith is a HUGE, ENORMOUS part of me. 

Also, marriage - that is a big deal.  It's a union, it's me and my husband against the world.  I love that man.  He is my heart.  I don't understand any of this.  Infedilty - wow was I ever judgemental toward others with that issue back in the past.  Wrong, I know.  And here I am.

Also, sex.  He and I never had sex.  My husband has been my first and only sexual partner.  I waited until I was married as did most of the girls in my family.  I did more with pwBPD then I did with some exes.  I don't understand.  I wasn't attracted to him in the beginning.  He knew I was a virgin until I was married.

Most of the times we did stuff  - I never touched him.

Now, it is all just a mess.  The ex-friend from the 'I need help' strand I posted - he had sex with her.  They had an affair.  She did not tell me that, he did.

My husband does not know.  Now that I have been out from under pwBPD for about 8 months, I see what a mockery it was, how unsafe, how unhealthy.  I don't know whether to tell my husband or not.

I sound flippant.  That is because I am trying to hold it together.  I am sitting here with tears streaming into my lap.  I feel like I am going to throw up again.

I am a horrible human being.  I have lost everything.  My sense of self.  My faith.  Possibly my husband.  I don't believe that God loves me anymore.  I know that others who think I am sweet and kind - if they knew, how awful and disgusting I am, they would be repulsed.  They would be right.

I am nothing.  I want to disappear.

My therapist is trying to work through this with me.  It doesn't seem to be helping yet.  I put up a really good front and inside I am disappearing.

I don't understand anything.  I don't recognize myself.  I have lost everything that I thought I was.

You may say, "You made a mistake."  NO.  I chose this.  He did not hold a gun to my head.  My therapist is trying to show me this was orchestrated, it was predatory.  He did not hold a gun to my head, though.

I am so scared.

I don't feel safe.

I feel that any unkindness or any bad thing that comes my way - I deserve.  Last April, I had to have minor surgery and had a breast cancer scare.  I told him that I almost felt I deserved it if I got cancer.

I don't trust myself or my judgement.

I am worthless. 

I don't want to give advice or even share on this board because who am I?  I don't know anything.

Don't worry about giving it to me good.  I have already and continue to, give it to myself.

I just wanted to put this all out there because you guys are so helpful and kind.

Thank you for being so kind.

I am sorry.

[Louise7777]

Ok, let me try to help here... .   First, dont be so hard on urself. I know how you feel, I understand the way you were brought up... .   I understand the guilt and shame you feel now. But you have to learn to forgive yourself.

You didnt have a gun to your head. True. But he is a VERY manipulative person. Thats what make them so dangerous. Because if you had a gun to your head, maybe you would had reacted, yelled, cried, whatever. You didnt. So, little by little he alured you. And you feel its all your fault. It is, to some extent, but keep in mind he, for some reason, wanted to "destroy" you. Cause hes self-centered and selfish. Maybe he saw you as a target, maybe he saw you as a goal to conquer. Who knows what they think?

Im glad you are in therapy, you are in the right path, I believe. If I were you wouldnt tell your husband. What for? To relieve your guilt? It wont, will only make him suffer. And its over anyway. Just dont fall for that anymore. Dont try to help people that dont need any help, they are players and you go down in the process.

Take good care of yourself. I hope I helped somehow.

[Free One]

You may say, "You made a mistake."  NO.  I chose this.  He did not hold a gun to my head.  My therapist is trying to show me this was orchestrated, it was predatory.  He did not hold a gun to my head, though.

You did chose to do something you are now not proud of and regret = mistake. Mistakes = human. You are right that you did have a choice, and you did play a part. However, you also can't accept 100% of the blame and have to understand a pwBPD preys on the vulnerabilities of people. You can be a victim of manipulation while also being responsible for your actions in the relationship.

At this point, it's all still your choice. Do you let this continue to destroy you and your marriage, or do you do what you need to do to move on and save what is important? I highly recommend reading "Why did he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men" by Lundy Bancroft. It may help you see more clearly how his behaviors may have been predatory.

[maria1]

Sheepdog

You were manipulated by a nasty person. He used your goodness against you. He turned it into a weak spot and tried to get what he wanted from you.

BUT HE DID NOT SUCCEED. I think you could look at this a different way, you resisted. Many, many people wouldn't have. GOOD FOR YOU.

I know it isn't that simple but I hope you can see to cut yourself some slack. I hpe you are managing to keep him out of your life. I am so glad for you that you have a good marriage and that your T is helping you through this.

You are a good person and you will eventually be a stronger one for this. You were human, that's all.

[Maryiscontrary]

You know, my mother was part of a large catholic family. She had problems with shame, because the church and family were pretty conservative practcioners, and basically she split into good girl, and then there was the dark side that got completely denied. There was not a lot of tolerance for in the open character aberrations or honest discussions of mistakes. I don't know, does this sound familiar?


it sounds like you have taken the steps for addressing your side of the street, no? It sounds like you did a good job, it seems to me you have been pretty thorough.

Did this person make you feel alive? Is that how you fell into his persuasive trap?

[AnotherPhoenix]

Sheepdog,

Thank you for sharing. That took a lot of bravery and strength.  

You showed great courage and fortitude to get out of the situation and not get caught into his trap more. This guy is a BPD seducer of the worst kind. You did so well to stop and get away and get out.

          

Sending you lots of empathy,

AnotherPheonix  

[Cumulus]

Hey sheepdog, I am so sorry for what you are dealing with. We human beings sure are good at messing up our lives aren't we? I won't tell you what you did was right because you wouldn't believe me even if I did. I hope what you can believe, is that what you did is no different from what any one of us might have done. If we don't think it can happen to us then we really better watch out. We are human and we make mistakes and sometimes we make big mistakes. When nons come up against someone with certain PDs we are at a tremendous disadvantage. We can be so soft and giving and they can be so manipulative and cunning. It sounds like you have some really hard decisions to make, I wish for you the grace and peace to know what to do and when to do it.

[Grey Kitty]

sheepdog,

I can picture you like this.

I am sitting here with tears streaming into my lap.  I feel like I am going to throw up again.

I'd like to just give you a long hug. No judgement. No criticism. No anger.

As you said, you've done it all to yourself.

Instead, I'd like to point out the good side of yourself and this story that you hardly see right now.

You don't want to have any part of a messed up relationship/friendship/whatever with the pwBPD.

You were pursued, provoked, taken advantage of by someone who was relentless and persuasive. Despite this, you still did find your limits and stop before he got to them.

You know you did things you wish you hadn't... .   and that knowledge will help protect you from doing anything of the sort again.

You were brave enough to share what you are ashamed of.

So give yourself credit for the things you did right, and the things you have learned. You (like the rest of us on this planet) were put here to live and make mistakes, not to be perfect and flawless. I don't know the specifics of your faith, but every one I'm familiar with has forgiveness and grace.

[C12P21]

So give yourself credit for the things you did right, and the things you have learned. You (like the rest of us on this planet) were put here to live and make mistakes, not to be perfect and flawless. I don't know the specifics of your faith, but every one I'm familiar with has forgiveness and grace.

 

These are very wise words... .  

The Creator loves you as you are... .   and understands you... .   learn to love you as the great mystery does... .

C

[laelle]

Sheepdog, my situation is similar to yours, and it happened in just about the same way.

Being lured in as friendship, creating drama to pull you in.  Faking intimacy and love to keep you.  I was married too.  i dont blame him for ruining my marriage, it would have ended anyway, but I did get divorced for him.

Where is he?  I cant seem to find him now.

You got away, you were able to see it for what it was and push it away.

You did alot better than me that is for sure.

Cut yourself a little slack, they are a manipulative bunch.  Why do you think we are all so afraid they will call us again? 

I believe in God but not religion, but I grew up in a Baptist family and I understand the shame that comes with the territory.

God does understand how you hurt, he understands what pressure you were put under, he also understands that you did the right thing in the end.  He isnt dead ya know.  He sees the whole story.

Much love to ya girl, love yourself.

[sheepdog]

I was so scared to come back on here and see what has been written.  I'd log on and shut down, log on and shut down.  And now I am sitting here crying again.  

All of you are too nice.  I do mean that as a compliment.  But also, it is not necessary.

I am a nice person.  This is probably the worst thing someone like me could ever do in their life.  And what kills me, what crushes me so hard I almost can not breather from the weight of it is that I did this - consciously - to someone who loves me so truly and purely and who I love the same.  How could I do that?  I am sick.  Vile.  Evil.

Many of your comments sound like things my therapist has said.  She said if he had not been borderline, this would never have happened.  There have been a couple other guys who have tried to get too close and I was not having it.  

Whether what she said is true or not, it doesn't matter.  It happened.  And I will never be able to let it go.  Because I shouldn't just let it go.  It is one of the 10 Commandments, people were stoned to death for it.  Please note I am NOT saying that anyone who has cheated is vile.  Just me.  My husband has not treated me abusively or unkindly.  I did something awful to someone wonderful.

BPD knew the turmoil it caused me.  How it made me want to die.

He and I went for a couple months not speaking a word to each other and I found this board and the FOG started to lift and when we reconnected, I think he knew it was different and he never attempted to touch me in that way again.  But he got even more abusive toward me.

My therapist wants to explore the sexual side of it.  How we never had sex, how it was mainly him doing things to me, how only a couple times I ever touched him.  I am not a dead fish and had a very hearty sexual appetite.  Yes it was different with him.  

She also wants to explore my shame... .   how it's always been there.  How I remember being a child in bed at night terrified to go to sleep because I may die in the night and go to hell.

She also wants to look into the flashbacks.

She gave me a book on shame and I am 2/3 of the way through.  It is not helping.  All of the adults in the book had horrible things happen to them.  Things they did not choose.

Again, I chose this.  

I don't even know who I am anymore.

As far as telling my husband or not - I just keep going around and around and it is making me crazy.  I am not kidding when I say he and I have a very close relationship.  He is my best friend and he loves me and I him.  But I have this secret from me.  A big, disgusting awful secret.  That involves him. 

It kills me that pwBPD KNOWS something my husband doesn't.  It angers me that he may be thinking of my husband as a sucker.  It terrifies me that BPD has some conversations he and I had on his email and could blackmail or hurt my husband.

We have not spoken since like August 1st.  He is not in my life.  But he is in hers.  Still best friends with her.  And I don't know if he has told her.  I am afraid to delete her from Facebook because what if she then tells people.  Anytime someone ignores me or doesn't get back to me, I'm thinking he has told them all.  He still playes poker with the group that I originally started and which we aren't invited to anymore because I don't speak to her or him.

I am afraid.

I think all the time about disappearing.  I imagine taking my stuff one day, getting in the car, and going to a city where no one knows me.  I would send my husband a postcard and tell him he is better off without me and I love him.  Let him find someone who will treat him with respect and dignity.

If I knew God would accept me with open, loving arms, I would just want to disappear.

And that hurts so bad.  Me, who used to be the biggest lover of life.

[laelle]

Sweetie, im not saying its right to cheat.  Its NEVER right to cheat, but people stoned people in the old testament because it was the judicial system at the time, and it was a cruel one. That is part of the celebration of Christ.  He taught forgiveness vs revenge and hatred which was the judicial system at the time.

People did alot of things in God's name, but it doesnt mean God approved of it.  Usually the country that wins the war gets to write history.  Do you think he teaches love and forgiveness only to want to have a nice person like you stoned?  He can forgive Solomon for having a bunch of Pagan wives, or Kind David for loving a married woman and sending her husband to the front line to die, but he cant forgive a kind woman for being taken advantage of by some soulless jerk?  God is not stupid.

I know religion is probably frowned upon here, but I had to say it, sorry.  Remove me or sue me.

[sheepdog]

laelle, no your post actually helped.  I know you and the others and the therapist aren't saying it is right to cheat.

And I absolutely know what you are saying is right.  As I said in my post, I am not judgemental of others.  I just have always felt worthless and that God can forgive everyone else... .   just not little old sheepdog.

I know I am not making sense so I'll stop now.

The books my therapist gave me said normal shame (which is guilt) is saying:  "I made a mistake."

Toxic shame means:  "I AM a mistake."

That is how I feel.

I wish I could just let it go as suggested by caring folks here.  I just can't.

Trust me, I am trying.

[laelle]

YOU are not a mistake.  YOU have value.  YOU are loved.  YOU love.  You just have to convince yourself of it, but you will get there. 

[sheepdog]

I hope you are right.

Thank you.

I spend half my time hating myself to the core (actually all) and if a little glimmer of old sheepdog comes back I squash it as I don't feel I should be happy.

The other half I spend trying to figure out stupid crap that seems enormous to me - like whether to delete her.

I feel like I am 12,

[laelle]

You know I had that meeting with my psych today and we discussed why I feel like i deserve to suffer.  My entire life I seek out situations where I have to sacrifice and suffer.  I was raised with the belief that suffering puts you closer to the big man.  I think at some subconscious level, I deserve to suffer because I want to feel special.

Our minds are capable of believing in lots of things, but it doesnt mean that they are true.  I dont deserve to suffer, and suffering makes me hurt not feel special.

[catsprt]

Hi Sheepdog - I am sorry for the difficult times you are experiencing and send you supportive thoughts. Previous comments are filled with wisdom, please remember that you are humane and however things may look now you will be the same person in better times. Take care, C

[Surnia]

I feel with you, sheepdog,

shame is a really painful feeling.  

You are so courageous in this post.  

Like others said, you are human, and it is okay to make mistakes. We all do this.

Can you give the old sheepdog a big big hug? Can you take the little girl, 12 years old, and tell her that you are really sorry she feels like this, hug her and tell her that you are here for her?

We have to care for our little girls and boys.  

[Cumulus]

Hi sheepdog. Writing on my phone as my computer seems to be taking a "break". Unfortunate and difficult. You said we were so nice with our comments. There are two reasons I can think of for that. The first is that no one could ever come close to being as hard on you as you are on yourself. Imagine that thought, all these strangers thinking more kindly of you, even after you told us what you did, then you are thinking of yourself. The second is, there is not one person here who could convict you without convicting ourselves. If we are "normal" we have all done something we consider abhorrent in our lives, something that has ended up hurting someone we love and going against our own morals in the process. If we were to put a grade on them, mine would get a very high mark. The difference, you had the guts to put your issue out there and allow others to learn from it. I can't do that. And by keeping it my secret and in the dark I allow it to continue to have power over my thoughts. Until we put things out in the light we don't stand a chance of getting loose of their hold over us. We aren't perfect people. No matter how hard some of us try. If I was perfect it would make a mockery of my beliefs. Take gentle care of yourself.

[Louise7777]

"‘If there is one of you who has not sinned, let him be the first to throw a stone at her’"

"‘Neither do I condemn you, go away, and don’t sin any more."


I believe I dont have to write who said those. ;-)

[Maryiscontrary]

See, you realized you made a mistake with a very persuasive and unrelenting person, but you are repenting. You have realized the error and made steps to correct it. You have a conscience.

I mean, most people are so broke that they can't even get to that point.  Most people, so shame filled, go cowardly and hide or attack. They do not admit problems, or make amends. The fact you have admitted the mistake, and want to make good on it, puts you far, far ahead of the pack,  girl.

That's the type of friend I would want, a worthy person, in my book.

[Blessed0329]

Cristina beat me to it, I was just about to write those exact words. Sheepdog, it is known as Amazing Grace because His love is greater than any sin we can possibly commit. You are dealing with soo much right now. Acknowledging your sin is, quite frankly, the easy part. There are a lot of other, much harder, tasks for you to work through, one of which is to accept God's forgiveness of you with confidence and thanksgiving. There is nothing else quite like this that is as freeing. Remember you are not alone, my friend.

[Grey Kitty]

My therapist ... .   also wants to explore my shame... .   how it's always been there.  How I remember being a child in bed at night terrified to go to sleep because I may die in the night and go to hell.

It does sound like you have a good therapist who is helping you work on the right stuff. This particular statement struck me from a different perspective than I've heard in this thread so far.

I was thinking that if you did have some deeply buried shame... .   the pwBPD was someone who could and did (probably instinctively) home right in on that, and find a way to use it to manipulate you. They really are good at finding and pushing buttons like that.

And as Maryiscontrary said... .   you HAVE learned and are still working on this. That is a huge step to take.

[AnotherPhoenix]

  Sheepdog,

How are you doing today?

I hope you don't mind another warm, friendly, and heart-felt hug coming through the internet.     

You been very brave and courageous through all of this.



Can you give yourself some more hugs?

Are you being kind and compassionate to yourself? It sounds like you could really use it.



It is so good that you have a T to work on these issues. I hope you start getting out of this pain and shame soon.

 

AnotherPheonix 

[sheepdog]

I still feel like it would be better if I was gone.  If I sent that postcard and just allowed everyone to live.

I can't really be compassionate toward myself.  I've always been so steadfast in my faith.  My moral compass was always pointing up, or at least trying to.

You guys don't understand.  It's not like I did this with Joe Shmoe at work that my husband had never met.  I did this with someone who shared meals with us, who stayed at our house for two weeks when he and his wife seperated, who slept in my husband's childhood bed when he went home with us twice for the holidays, who ate dinner with my family with my husband's family... .   who the hell does that?

NOT a nice person.  It's just so vile.

As far as faith - I feel that God really doesn't love me right now.  I understand where everyone is coming from lately religion gets me all jumbled up.  I do believe in Jesus.  But I have friends who are Jews, Indian, Buddhist, etc.  I do not believe they are going to Hell.  Then I get focused on that and it gets all mixed up.

It is so hard when my husband compliments me, holds me.  He saw the shame book and said we need to get that taken care of because I 'have never done anything in my life to feel ashamed about.'  It just kills me.

[laelle]

What do you think it would take to help you feel better about yourself?  

I'm sure if I told you stories about half the stuff I did, you would feel much better.

[sheepdog]

What do you think it would take to help you feel better about yourself?  

I'm sure if I told you stories about half the stuff I did, you would feel much better.

laelle - I don't want you to think I have never done anything wrong.  And I don't want anyone to feel I'm judging others and what they do.  Flawed people are usually some of my favorite people (Hello?  Calling all borderlines... .      ).

I think it is that I don't recognize myself anymore.  I don't recognize that scared, confused, putting up with abuse person.  I don't recognize that girl that completely crapped on her realtionship with her husband - the nicest person to her ever.

I just keep going round and round.  It pains me that BPD knows what I did - has one up on my husband.

I think if I told husband and he forgave me, I could feel better.  Then I think it is selfish.  Then I think I don't keep things from him.  Then I think about how it will completely crush him.  Then I picture BPDs smirky-ass face and how he knows what I did and I want to scream.  (Sorry - it's where I am right now.)

If I knew God could forgive me, it would help.  But that's where faith comes in, right?  And I am lacking that.  I have no faith in myself so why should He?

[laelle]

Ok, I am beginning to understand you a little better.  You fear your husband finding out and what it will do to him, you and your marriage.  You also struggle with can you live with yourself if you keep it secret.  Those are valid fears Sheep.

I think you have crossed a "boundary" that you dont know how to come back from and you feel lost.  Its totally out of your element to solve.  Am I right?

Ive been there.

Please dont take me as a bad person, but it would be your word against this guys right?  What are the odds that this guy is going to come back around?

[arabella]

There are a few things you've said here, sheepdog, that struck a chord.

She gave me a book on shame and I am 2/3 of the way through. It is not helping. All of the adults in the book had horrible things happen to them. Things they did not choose.

Look, I wasn't there and I don't have all the details etc; however, a lot of what you describe as happening did very much happen TO you. I'm a bit concerned about posting this because it may trigger all sorts of re-victimization issues for you, especially if you were subject to some childhood trauma (as you indicated in your first post) but... .   Are you sure that some of this shame isn't stemming from being a victim? A loss of control? Because, honestly, if you are telling a man "no" repeatedly and he still insists and starts touching you - that is sexual assault. It is nothing but victim-blaming to say that a woman 'should have fought back more', 'should have said no more often or in a different tone', or 'should have screamed', or 'she sort of participated at the end' or any other ridiculous thing. No means no. The end. Manipulating a friend, especially one that he knows has little experience in sexual relations, into having any sort of physical contact that is unwanted is sexual abuse and it is wrong (and illegal - but now you see why so many sexual assaults go unreported). I think you may need to shift your perspective here a little. I am really, truly, very sorry that this happened to you but you can not continue to justify the behaviour of your BPDexfriend by saying that it is all your fault. Maybe it's time to look at that book your T gave you in a new light?

You sound like you are struggling a lot with keeping this experience from your husband. Sheepdog, I'm sorry, but I don't think you're going to be able to work through this without him. Can you talk to your therapist and come up with an action plan? Perhaps your therapist could even meet with both of you to help you tell him? Your husband deserves the truth and you deserve to live in the truth and not be hiding and self-shaming. Stop the cycle.

I've always been so steadfast in my faith.  My moral compass was always pointing up, or at least trying to.

As for faith... .   What is faith but belief in the unbelievable? It is nothing to believe that nothing is more than ourselves. It is faith to believe that a greater power exists that is capable of far more than little 'ol us (I don't think it really matters which particular 'higher power' you follow). God can forgive even the unforgivable, He can do the impossible - otherwise He would not be worshipped. You have faith otherwise you wouldn't be concerned with whether God could forgive you. It's you that doesn't want to forgive yourself - God forgave you before any of this even happened. That's just how it works.

Being steadfast when there is no great challenge is easy. This is a test and you are going to make it through because you DO have a good moral compass. Now is the time for faith. Now is the time to prove that you can forgive as God commanded - forgiving yourself is the hardest challenge of all. If your moral compass wasn't still pointing up then you wouldn't have this struggle at all. Now it's time to overcome the struggle and move forward. Your husband deserves to have his best friend and wife back, fully present, not living in the past.

Take care, sheepdog.

[Grey Kitty]

... .   And I don't want anyone to feel I'm judging others and what they do.  Flawed people are usually some of my favorite people

OK... .   when it comes to flawed people... .   what about sheepdog? Other flawed people are you favorites, but not yourself. What's with that? 

And yes, I think Arabella hit a big nail right on the head there--you were manipulated, you were taken advantage of.

I just re-read first post in this thread--he started with talking of suicide early, and used that to manipulate you.

That thought hits home to me--I had a "friend" when I was in my teens who I decided (after the fact) was some sort of nutjob. (He was a pathological liar for sure... .   Right now I'm wondering about BPD (w/NPD traits)... .   not that a diagnosis matters now since he is gone from my life.) I remember talking on the phone for hours into the night. I remember being sucked in because I was afraid that he would commit suicide if I hung up on him. I also remember him pulling the same exact crap, when I got tired of it... .   with my younger sister (who had a bizarre dating relationship with him, except that she never saw his house, and it was mostly over the phone)... .   then my mother [no dating, ]... .   then tried it with my girlfriend, and maybe another friend. He sorta continued to stalk my sister through my mom for quite a while, and I even got an email from him 20 years later. Just plain bizarre.

But I gotta say that the suicide stuff is powerful. Today I've got better resources. (The big red "EMERGENCY" link on the bottom of each post here has good information on how to deal with someone who is talking about suicide) I do think it should be taken seriously, and not just written off as a way to manipulate you... .   but sometimes it sure does get used for manipulation too!

Then AFTER he had broken you down with various manipulative games and stunts, he initiated all the stuff that you are ashamed of. Not you. He did started it.

His behavior was abusive. You were being backed into this corner, not seeking something dark and evil. I know you have regrets about how far you did let things go. But remember you weren't trying to do any of it! Your story is not one of those "I know what it is wrong, but I just can't stop myself from going back for more... .   " kind of stories

I hope you are able to forgive yourself soon. You weren't acting out of any dark motivation--It sounds like your kindness and concern for another person was the source of this. That is nothing to be ashamed of.