Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
January 27, 2021, 01:57:48 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
84
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: An Apology- I  (Read 3160 times)
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« on: April 02, 2013, 11:42:46 AM »

I have been on this board for a while now but kind of laying low.  My relationship with my pwBPD ended on August 1st.  I have not spoken a word to him.  I am better for it.

But, now the Pandora's box is all the way open and I am really struggling.  It has nothing to do with missing him - I don't and want him as far away from me as possible.  It all has to do with my overwhelming, permeating toxic shame.

This is going to be long.  When I came to this board, I told everyone my pwBPD was my friend.  And that was partly true.  But we had also had a physical relationship.  It had ended a few months before I found this board and due to the shame I didn't want anyone to call me a whore or tear me down.  I already do that well enough on my own and I was scared.

I met my pwBPD 4 or 5 years ago.  We worked together.  I am married.  Happily married.  I love my husband with all of my heart.  I know you don't believe that but I do.  And I understand why you don't or wouldn't.  At first, BPD and I were just friends and hung out in big groups of people.  He told me I was the nicest person ever, that I inspired him, that he felt safe around me... .   all the things I apparently lapped up like some stupid little puppy.  He knew I was married.  He had hung out with my husband.  He knew I was happy.

After several months, it shifted a little.  He started saying how depressed he was, how he wanted to kill himself.  I will never forget how he called me one night when my h was out of town and told me he was driving through a thunderstorm (and there was a horrible storm that night) and how he hoped the car would tailspin and how he wanted to die.  I tried to talk to him and he hung up on me and I called him for hours and he never responded.  Or the time that he told me he was doing it, killing himself right then, he had had enough.  Same thing - he turned his phone off for hours.  Both times when he called back he sounded tired but was all 'I'm so sorry.  Didn't mean to scare you.  I could never leave you.  You keep me alive.'

One day he texted me that he was madly in love with me and had been for months.  I just said, "No you're not.  You just think you are because you're going through a rough time."  He was thinking of seperating from his wife of ten years.  He got angry abut I told him, "You don't love me.  Cut it out.  I'm already taken."  We talked it through and then he thanked me for accepting it and being so kind.

He started sharing all kinds of things about his life, his past (which some of it is psycopath in nature - but at the time I was just thinking, "Whoa, this guy has overcome so much!  And HE thinks *I* am amazing."     )

And I, who never really shares *anything* with others started telling him things.  We were both first-generation, the children of immigrants.  He understood that part of me as no one else ever had.  He liked all the same things I liked.  He know music is my life and I love words, poetry, literature and he started wooing me with poetry and music.  I felt like I had finally found that best friend that has alluded me.  Yes, my husband is my bff but I always felt like you're supposed to have an outside bff - don't know if that is making sense?

He was hell-bent and determined to find out 'my number.'  I don't know why he was so stuck on this but he was.  After constant wearing down, I told him the truth - I had only had sex with my husband.  He was incredulous.  I admitted that I actually had to have surgery to even be able for that to happen but also because I had always wanted to save myself for my husband.  We started talking about the surgery and without getting too personal I told him that there is a condition that makes you have to open up that area (I can not believe I am saying it on here - I have not even told my therapist this).  It's called vaginismus.  So of course he looks it up and becomes the vaginismus expert.  He reads that one of the reasons could be because of abuse.  I admitted I had flashbacks from childhood but have no clear memory.  I told him that.  Something that personal.  I talked to him about my mom and other people I love who have passed away.  I told him things I thought he would keep sacred.  He didn't. 

I don't know, I started getting sucked in.  Little by little, I started getting sucked in.  Having feelings for him.  I was keeping him alive.  I was amazing.  I'm a person's reason for getting up in the morning.     I never acted on anything and never would.

One day, he texted me and told me again how crazy he was about me, how he just loved me so much.  How he could tell I felt something for him too.  How we could be amazing.  He was like, "Please?"  I wrote back and said, "I am really touched but you need to know that you and I are never, ever, ever going to happen.  I'm sorry.  But we can always be in each other's lives as friends."  He waited a few minutes then wrote back, "Oh.  Okay, i have to go now sheepdog, I'm not feeling so good." (If I had a nickel for every time he said that.)

The next day at work, he didn't show up.  Would not answer his phone.  Eight hours later, he still would not answer calls or texts.  So I texted him and said, "Okay!  I may have feelings for you.  Please let me know you're okay."  Twenty seconds later he texts back and is all like, "You love me?  Are you saying you love me?"  I said, "I don't know what I'm saying, just tell me that you're okay."  He wrote back that he was the happiest man in the world and that he had to sleep cause he'd been up all day and night.

We had a loong conversation about it and I told him that I loved my husband and that nothing could happen and that I was confused and to back off.  He said he understood and would honor that.  He did, for a while.

And then one night, (my h was out of town) he brought it up again.  I told him no and that he needed to stop.  He said okay and would go home.  We stood and hugged and then he started kissing my neck.  I felt like everything went nuts and I shoved him out the door and said "You need to leave now."  He left.  He texted me five minutes later and he said, "Can we talk about what just happened?  I'm still sitting in your parking lot."  I said okay.  (I KNOW!  So Stupid!) He came back up, we talked for two minutes then he was all over me and saying things and kissing me and touching me.  I know you are thinking, "Well, it's not you were probably just laying there."  But it was exactly like that.  I kissed back somewhat if his lips touched mine but I did nothing.  After a while, I told him he needed to go.  He left.  He came back up five minutes later and said that his car battery had died and asked if he could stay.  I pushed my car keys at him and closed the door.

We did not have sex.  We never have had sex.

The next day, I woke up and I literally wanted to die.  My husband was out of town and I had no one else.  So I called BPD.  Crying.  Hysterical.  He said he was so sad because he had woken up that day thinking it was the greatest day in the world.  He said he was sorry and reminded me he had my car and he would bring it back.

Wow, this is a lot of backstory and I have not gotten to the issue yet.  I will just end the backstory by saying that for various reasons, he and I stopped the physical aspect of it about 10 months before we stopped being friends for good.  He knew, the entire time, how it was making me depressed, feeling like I wanted to die.  He knew I feared abandonment, felt worthless. 

Something you need to know about me.  I really have not done anything majorly 'bad' ever in my life.  Ironically, that is one of the things my pwBPD was attracted to... .   my light, my goodness - that's what the fat liar said anyway.  That is gone now.  But, truly, I am just kind of clean-cut, very strict upbringing, didn't even touch a drop of alchohol until college and don't really drink a lot, try to be nice to everyone, never bullied.  I'm not tooting my horn.  Just saying how I was. 

Another thing is that my faith is a HUGE, ENORMOUS part of me. 

Also, marriage - that is a big deal.  It's a union, it's me and my husband against the world.  I love that man.  He is my heart.  I don't understand any of this.  Infedilty - wow was I ever judgemental toward others with that issue back in the past.  Wrong, I know.  And here I am.

Also, sex.  He and I never had sex.  My husband has been my first and only sexual partner.  I waited until I was married as did most of the girls in my family.  I did more with pwBPD then I did with some exes.  I don't understand.  I wasn't attracted to him in the beginning.  He knew I was a virgin until I was married.

Most of the times we did stuff  - I never touched him.

Now, it is all just a mess.  The ex-friend from the 'I need help' strand I posted - he had sex with her.  They had an affair.  She did not tell me that, he did.

My husband does not know.  Now that I have been out from under pwBPD for about 8 months, I see what a mockery it was, how unsafe, how unhealthy.  I don't know whether to tell my husband or not.

I sound flippant.  That is because I am trying to hold it together.  I am sitting here with tears streaming into my lap.  I feel like I am going to throw up again.

I am a horrible human being.  I have lost everything.  My sense of self.  My faith.  Possibly my husband.  I don't believe that God loves me anymore.  I know that others who think I am sweet and kind - if they knew, how awful and disgusting I am, they would be repulsed.  They would be right.

I am nothing.  I want to disappear.

My therapist is trying to work through this with me.  It doesn't seem to be helping yet.  I put up a really good front and inside I am disappearing.

I don't understand anything.  I don't recognize myself.  I have lost everything that I thought I was.

You may say, "You made a mistake."  NO.  I chose this.  He did not hold a gun to my head.  My therapist is trying to show me this was orchestrated, it was predatory.  He did not hold a gun to my head, though.

I am so scared.

I don't feel safe.

I feel that any unkindness or any bad thing that comes my way - I deserve.  Last April, I had to have minor surgery and had a breast cancer scare.  I told him that I almost felt I deserved it if I got cancer.

I don't trust myself or my judgement.

I am worthless. 

I don't want to give advice or even share on this board because who am I?  I don't know anything.

Don't worry about giving it to me good.  I have already and continue to, give it to myself.

I just wanted to put this all out there because you guys are so helpful and kind.

Thank you for being so kind.

I am sorry.
Logged
Louise7777
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 515



« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 12:09:35 PM »

Ok, let me try to help here... .   First, dont be so hard on urself. I know how you feel, I understand the way you were brought up... .   I understand the guilt and shame you feel now. But you have to learn to forgive yourself.

You didnt have a gun to your head. True. But he is a VERY manipulative person. Thats what make them so dangerous. Because if you had a gun to your head, maybe you would had reacted, yelled, cried, whatever. You didnt. So, little by little he alured you. And you feel its all your fault. It is, to some extent, but keep in mind he, for some reason, wanted to "destroy" you. Cause hes self-centered and selfish. Maybe he saw you as a target, maybe he saw you as a goal to conquer. Who knows what they think?

Im glad you are in therapy, you are in the right path, I believe. If I were you wouldnt tell your husband. What for? To relieve your guilt? It wont, will only make him suffer. And its over anyway. Just dont fall for that anymore. Dont try to help people that dont need any help, they are players and you go down in the process.

Take good care of yourself. I hope I helped somehow.



Logged
Free One
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 563



« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 03:47:10 PM »

You may say, "You made a mistake."  NO.  I chose this.  He did not hold a gun to my head.  My therapist is trying to show me this was orchestrated, it was predatory.  He did not hold a gun to my head, though.

You did chose to do something you are now not proud of and regret = mistake. Mistakes = human. You are right that you did have a choice, and you did play a part. However, you also can't accept 100% of the blame and have to understand a pwBPD preys on the vulnerabilities of people. You can be a victim of manipulation while also being responsible for your actions in the relationship.

At this point, it's all still your choice. Do you let this continue to destroy you and your marriage, or do you do what you need to do to move on and save what is important? I highly recommend reading "Why did he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men" by Lundy Bancroft. It may help you see more clearly how his behaviors may have been predatory.
Logged
maria1
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1989


« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 04:49:04 PM »

Sheepdog

You were manipulated by a nasty person. He used your goodness against you. He turned it into a weak spot and tried to get what he wanted from you.

BUT HE DID NOT SUCCEED. I think you could look at this a different way, you resisted. Many, many people wouldn't have. GOOD FOR YOU.

I know it isn't that simple but I hope you can see to cut yourself some slack. I hpe you are managing to keep him out of your life. I am so glad for you that you have a good marriage and that your T is helping you through this.

You are a good person and you will eventually be a stronger one for this. You were human, that's all.
Logged
Maryiscontrary
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 504


« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 05:37:02 PM »

You know, my mother was part of a large catholic family. She had problems with shame, because the church and family were pretty conservative practcioners, and basically she split into good girl, and then there was the dark side that got completely denied. There was not a lot of tolerance for in the open character aberrations or honest discussions of mistakes. I don't know, does this sound familiar?


it sounds like you have taken the steps for addressing your side of the street, no? It sounds like you did a good job, it seems to me you have been pretty thorough.

Did this person make you feel alive? Is that how you fell into his persuasive trap?

Logged
AnotherPhoenix
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced. Was married for 16 years
Posts: 448



« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 05:38:18 PM »

Sheepdog,

Thank you for sharing. That took a lot of bravery and strength.  

You showed great courage and fortitude to get out of the situation and not get caught into his trap more. This guy is a BPD seducer of the worst kind. You did so well to stop and get away and get out.

          

Sending you lots of empathy,

AnotherPheonix  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)



Logged
Cumulus
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 413



« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 07:49:52 PM »

Hey sheepdog, I am so sorry for what you are dealing with. We human beings sure are good at messing up our lives aren't we? I won't tell you what you did was right because you wouldn't believe me even if I did. I hope what you can believe, is that what you did is no different from what any one of us might have done. If we don't think it can happen to us then we really better watch out. We are human and we make mistakes and sometimes we make big mistakes. When nons come up against someone with certain PDs we are at a tremendous disadvantage. We can be so soft and giving and they can be so manipulative and cunning. It sounds like you have some really hard decisions to make, I wish for you the grace and peace to know what to do and when to do it.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 10:12:17 PM »

sheepdog,

I can picture you like this.

Excerpt
I am sitting here with tears streaming into my lap.  I feel like I am going to throw up again.

I'd like to just give you a long hug. No judgement. No criticism. No anger.

As you said, you've done it all to yourself.

Instead, I'd like to point out the good side of yourself and this story that you hardly see right now.

Smiling (click to insert in post) You don't want to have any part of a messed up relationship/friendship/whatever with the pwBPD.

Smiling (click to insert in post) You were pursued, provoked, taken advantage of by someone who was relentless and persuasive. Despite this, you still did find your limits and stop before he got to them.

Smiling (click to insert in post) You know you did things you wish you hadn't... .   and that knowledge will help protect you from doing anything of the sort again.

Smiling (click to insert in post) You were brave enough to share what you are ashamed of.

So give yourself credit for the things you did right, and the things you have learned. You (like the rest of us on this planet) were put here to live and make mistakes, not to be perfect and flawless. I don't know the specifics of your faith, but every one I'm familiar with has forgiveness and grace.
Logged
C12P21
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2512



« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 01:14:40 AM »

Excerpt
So give yourself credit for the things you did right, and the things you have learned. You (like the rest of us on this planet) were put here to live and make mistakes, not to be perfect and flawless. I don't know the specifics of your faith, but every one I'm familiar with has forgiveness and grace.

  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

These are very wise words... .  

The Creator loves you as you are... .   and understands you... .   learn to love you as the great mystery does... .

C
Logged
laelle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1737


« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 07:52:39 AM »

Sheepdog, my situation is similar to yours, and it happened in just about the same way.

Being lured in as friendship, creating drama to pull you in.  Faking intimacy and love to keep you.  I was married too.  i dont blame him for ruining my marriage, it would have ended anyway, but I did get divorced for him.

Where is he?  I cant seem to find him now.

You got away, you were able to see it for what it was and push it away.

You did alot better than me that is for sure.

Cut yourself a little slack, they are a manipulative bunch.  Why do you think we are all so afraid they will call us again? 

I believe in God but not religion, but I grew up in a Baptist family and I understand the shame that comes with the territory.

God does understand how you hurt, he understands what pressure you were put under, he also understands that you did the right thing in the end.  He isnt dead ya know.  He sees the whole story.

Much love to ya girl, love yourself.

Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 12:12:46 PM »

I was so scared to come back on here and see what has been written.  I'd log on and shut down, log on and shut down.  And now I am sitting here crying again.  

All of you are too nice.  I do mean that as a compliment.  But also, it is not necessary.

I am a nice person.  This is probably the worst thing someone like me could ever do in their life.  And what kills me, what crushes me so hard I almost can not breather from the weight of it is that I did this - consciously - to someone who loves me so truly and purely and who I love the same.  How could I do that?  I am sick.  Vile.  Evil.

Many of your comments sound like things my therapist has said.  She said if he had not been borderline, this would never have happened.  There have been a couple other guys who have tried to get too close and I was not having it.  

Whether what she said is true or not, it doesn't matter.  It happened.  And I will never be able to let it go.  Because I shouldn't just let it go.  It is one of the 10 Commandments, people were stoned to death for it.  Please note I am NOT saying that anyone who has cheated is vile.  Just me.  My husband has not treated me abusively or unkindly.  I did something awful to someone wonderful.

BPD knew the turmoil it caused me.  How it made me want to die.

He and I went for a couple months not speaking a word to each other and I found this board and the FOG started to lift and when we reconnected, I think he knew it was different and he never attempted to touch me in that way again.  But he got even more abusive toward me.

My therapist wants to explore the sexual side of it.  How we never had sex, how it was mainly him doing things to me, how only a couple times I ever touched him.  I am not a dead fish and had a very hearty sexual appetite.  Yes it was different with him.  

She also wants to explore my shame... .   how it's always been there.  How I remember being a child in bed at night terrified to go to sleep because I may die in the night and go to hell.

She also wants to look into the flashbacks.

She gave me a book on shame and I am 2/3 of the way through.  It is not helping.  All of the adults in the book had horrible things happen to them.  Things they did not choose.

Again, I chose this.  

I don't even know who I am anymore.

As far as telling my husband or not - I just keep going around and around and it is making me crazy.  I am not kidding when I say he and I have a very close relationship.  He is my best friend and he loves me and I him.  But I have this secret from me.  A big, disgusting awful secret.  That involves him. 

It kills me that pwBPD KNOWS something my husband doesn't.  It angers me that he may be thinking of my husband as a sucker.  It terrifies me that BPD has some conversations he and I had on his email and could blackmail or hurt my husband.

We have not spoken since like August 1st.  He is not in my life.  But he is in hers.  Still best friends with her.  And I don't know if he has told her.  I am afraid to delete her from Facebook because what if she then tells people.  Anytime someone ignores me or doesn't get back to me, I'm thinking he has told them all.  He still playes poker with the group that I originally started and which we aren't invited to anymore because I don't speak to her or him.

I am afraid.

I think all the time about disappearing.  I imagine taking my stuff one day, getting in the car, and going to a city where no one knows me.  I would send my husband a postcard and tell him he is better off without me and I love him.  Let him find someone who will treat him with respect and dignity.

If I knew God would accept me with open, loving arms, I would just want to disappear.

And that hurts so bad.  Me, who used to be the biggest lover of life.
Logged
laelle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1737


« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 12:25:55 PM »

Sweetie, im not saying its right to cheat.  Its NEVER right to cheat, but people stoned people in the old testament because it was the judicial system at the time, and it was a cruel one. That is part of the celebration of Christ.  He taught forgiveness vs revenge and hatred which was the judicial system at the time.

People did alot of things in God's name, but it doesnt mean God approved of it.  Usually the country that wins the war gets to write history.  Do you think he teaches love and forgiveness only to want to have a nice person like you stoned?  He can forgive Solomon for having a bunch of Pagan wives, or Kind David for loving a married woman and sending her husband to the front line to die, but he cant forgive a kind woman for being taken advantage of by some soulless jerk?  God is not stupid.

I know religion is probably frowned upon here, but I had to say it, sorry.  Remove me or sue me.
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 12:37:48 PM »

laelle, no your post actually helped.  I know you and the others and the therapist aren't saying it is right to cheat.

And I absolutely know what you are saying is right.  As I said in my post, I am not judgemental of others.  I just have always felt worthless and that God can forgive everyone else... .   just not little old sheepdog.

I know I am not making sense so I'll stop now.

The books my therapist gave me said normal shame (which is guilt) is saying:  "I made a mistake."

Toxic shame means:  "I AM a mistake."

That is how I feel.

I wish I could just let it go as suggested by caring folks here.  I just can't.

Trust me, I am trying.
Logged
laelle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1737


« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 12:42:43 PM »

YOU are not a mistake.  YOU have value.  YOU are loved.  YOU love.  You just have to convince yourself of it, but you will get there. 

Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2013, 12:49:54 PM »

I hope you are right.

Thank you.

I spend half my time hating myself to the core (actually all) and if a little glimmer of old sheepdog comes back I squash it as I don't feel I should be happy.

The other half I spend trying to figure out stupid crap that seems enormous to me - like whether to delete her.

I feel like I am 12,

Logged
laelle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1737


« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 01:17:28 PM »

You know I had that meeting with my psych today and we discussed why I feel like i deserve to suffer.  My entire life I seek out situations where I have to sacrifice and suffer.  I was raised with the belief that suffering puts you closer to the big man.  I think at some subconscious level, I deserve to suffer because I want to feel special.

Our minds are capable of believing in lots of things, but it doesnt mean that they are true.  I dont deserve to suffer, and suffering makes me hurt not feel special.

Logged
catsprt
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 276



« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 03:00:23 PM »

Hi Sheepdog - I am sorry for the difficult times you are experiencing and send you supportive thoughts. Previous comments are filled with wisdom, please remember that you are humane and however things may look now you will be the same person in better times. Take care, C
Logged
Surnia
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: 8 y married, divorced since 2012-11-22
Posts: 3901



« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2013, 03:37:32 PM »

I feel with you, sheepdog,

shame is a really painful feeling.  

You are so courageous in this post.  

Like others said, you are human, and it is okay to make mistakes. We all do this.

Can you give the old sheepdog a big big hug? Can you take the little girl, 12 years old, and tell her that you are really sorry she feels like this, hug her and tell her that you are here for her?

We have to care for our little girls and boys.  
Logged

“Don’t shrink. Don’t puff up. Stand on your sacred ground.”  Brené Brown
Cumulus
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 413



« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 09:13:30 PM »

Hi sheepdog. Writing on my phone as my computer seems to be taking a "break". Unfortunate and difficult. You said we were so nice with our comments. There are two reasons I can think of for that. The first is that no one could ever come close to being as hard on you as you are on yourself. Imagine that thought, all these strangers thinking more kindly of you, even after you told us what you did, then you are thinking of yourself. The second is, there is not one person here who could convict you without convicting ourselves. If we are "normal" we have all done something we consider abhorrent in our lives, something that has ended up hurting someone we love and going against our own morals in the process. If we were to put a grade on them, mine would get a very high mark. The difference, you had the guts to put your issue out there and allow others to learn from it. I can't do that. And by keeping it my secret and in the dark I allow it to continue to have power over my thoughts. Until we put things out in the light we don't stand a chance of getting loose of their hold over us. We aren't perfect people. No matter how hard some of us try. If I was perfect it would make a mockery of my beliefs. Take gentle care of yourself.
Logged
Louise7777
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 515



« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 09:20:52 PM »

"‘If there is one of you who has not sinned, let him be the first to throw a stone at her’"

"‘Neither do I condemn you, go away, and don’t sin any more."


I believe I dont have to write who said those. ;-)
Logged
Maryiscontrary
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 504


« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2013, 09:37:18 PM »

See, you realized you made a mistake with a very persuasive and unrelenting person, but you are repenting. You have realized the error and made steps to correct it. You have a conscience.

I mean, most people are so broke that they can't even get to that point.  Most people, so shame filled, go cowardly and hide or attack. They do not admit problems, or make amends. The fact you have admitted the mistake, and want to make good on it, puts you far, far ahead of the pack,  girl.

That's the type of friend I would want, a worthy person, in my book.
Logged
Blessed0329
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 189



« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 10:34:33 PM »

Cristina beat me to it, I was just about to write those exact words. Sheepdog, it is known as Amazing Grace because His love is greater than any sin we can possibly commit. You are dealing with soo much right now. Acknowledging your sin is, quite frankly, the easy part. There are a lot of other, much harder, tasks for you to work through, one of which is to accept God's forgiveness of you with confidence and thanksgiving. There is nothing else quite like this that is as freeing. Remember you are not alone, my friend.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2013, 12:03:34 PM »

My therapist ... .   also wants to explore my shame... .   how it's always been there.  How I remember being a child in bed at night terrified to go to sleep because I may die in the night and go to hell.

It does sound like you have a good therapist who is helping you work on the right stuff. This particular statement struck me from a different perspective than I've heard in this thread so far.

I was thinking that if you did have some deeply buried shame... .   the pwBPD was someone who could and did (probably instinctively) home right in on that, and find a way to use it to manipulate you. They really are good at finding and pushing buttons like that.

And as Maryiscontrary said... .   you HAVE learned and are still working on this. That is a huge step to take.
Logged
AnotherPhoenix
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced. Was married for 16 years
Posts: 448



« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2013, 12:17:54 PM »

  Sheepdog,

How are you doing today?

I hope you don't mind another warm, friendly, and heart-felt hug coming through the internet.     

You been very brave and courageous through all of this.



Can you give yourself some more hugs?

Are you being kind and compassionate to yourself? It sounds like you could really use it.



It is so good that you have a T to work on these issues. I hope you start getting out of this pain and shame soon.

 

AnotherPheonix  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2013, 12:34:34 PM »

I still feel like it would be better if I was gone.  If I sent that postcard and just allowed everyone to live.

I can't really be compassionate toward myself.  I've always been so steadfast in my faith.  My moral compass was always pointing up, or at least trying to.

You guys don't understand.  It's not like I did this with Joe Shmoe at work that my husband had never met.  I did this with someone who shared meals with us, who stayed at our house for two weeks when he and his wife seperated, who slept in my husband's childhood bed when he went home with us twice for the holidays, who ate dinner with my family with my husband's family... .   who the hell does that?

NOT a nice person.  It's just so vile.

As far as faith - I feel that God really doesn't love me right now.  I understand where everyone is coming from lately religion gets me all jumbled up.  I do believe in Jesus.  But I have friends who are Jews, Indian, Buddhist, etc.  I do not believe they are going to Hell.  Then I get focused on that and it gets all mixed up.

It is so hard when my husband compliments me, holds me.  He saw the shame book and said we need to get that taken care of because I 'have never done anything in my life to feel ashamed about.'  It just kills me.
Logged
laelle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1737


« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 12:40:00 PM »

What do you think it would take to help you feel better about yourself?  

I'm sure if I told you stories about half the stuff I did, you would feel much better.
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2013, 12:47:22 PM »

What do you think it would take to help you feel better about yourself?  

I'm sure if I told you stories about half the stuff I did, you would feel much better.

laelle - I don't want you to think I have never done anything wrong.  And I don't want anyone to feel I'm judging others and what they do.  Flawed people are usually some of my favorite people (Hello?  Calling all borderlines... .      ).

I think it is that I don't recognize myself anymore.  I don't recognize that scared, confused, putting up with abuse person.  I don't recognize that girl that completely crapped on her realtionship with her husband - the nicest person to her ever.

I just keep going round and round.  It pains me that BPD knows what I did - has one up on my husband.

I think if I told husband and he forgave me, I could feel better.  Then I think it is selfish.  Then I think I don't keep things from him.  Then I think about how it will completely crush him.  Then I picture BPDs smirky-ass face and how he knows what I did and I want to scream.  (Sorry - it's where I am right now.)

If I knew God could forgive me, it would help.  But that's where faith comes in, right?  And I am lacking that.  I have no faith in myself so why should He?
Logged
laelle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1737


« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2013, 01:30:07 PM »

Ok, I am beginning to understand you a little better.  You fear your husband finding out and what it will do to him, you and your marriage.  You also struggle with can you live with yourself if you keep it secret.  Those are valid fears Sheep.

I think you have crossed a "boundary" that you dont know how to come back from and you feel lost.  Its totally out of your element to solve.  Am I right?

Ive been there.

Please dont take me as a bad person, but it would be your word against this guys right?  What are the odds that this guy is going to come back around?
Logged
arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2013, 01:46:10 PM »

There are a few things you've said here, sheepdog, that struck a chord.

Excerpt
She gave me a book on shame and I am 2/3 of the way through. It is not helping. All of the adults in the book had horrible things happen to them. Things they did not choose.

Look, I wasn't there and I don't have all the details etc; however, a lot of what you describe as happening did very much happen TO you. I'm a bit concerned about posting this because it may trigger all sorts of re-victimization issues for you, especially if you were subject to some childhood trauma (as you indicated in your first post) but... .   Are you sure that some of this shame isn't stemming from being a victim? A loss of control? Because, honestly, if you are telling a man "no" repeatedly and he still insists and starts touching you - that is sexual assault. It is nothing but victim-blaming to say that a woman 'should have fought back more', 'should have said no more often or in a different tone', or 'should have screamed', or 'she sort of participated at the end' or any other ridiculous thing. No means no. The end. Manipulating a friend, especially one that he knows has little experience in sexual relations, into having any sort of physical contact that is unwanted is sexual abuse and it is wrong (and illegal - but now you see why so many sexual assaults go unreported). I think you may need to shift your perspective here a little. I am really, truly, very sorry that this happened to you but you can not continue to justify the behaviour of your BPDexfriend by saying that it is all your fault. Maybe it's time to look at that book your T gave you in a new light?

You sound like you are struggling a lot with keeping this experience from your husband. Sheepdog, I'm sorry, but I don't think you're going to be able to work through this without him. Can you talk to your therapist and come up with an action plan? Perhaps your therapist could even meet with both of you to help you tell him? Your husband deserves the truth and you deserve to live in the truth and not be hiding and self-shaming. Stop the cycle.

Excerpt
I've always been so steadfast in my faith.  My moral compass was always pointing up, or at least trying to.

As for faith... .   What is faith but belief in the unbelievable? It is nothing to believe that nothing is more than ourselves. It is faith to believe that a greater power exists that is capable of far more than little 'ol us (I don't think it really matters which particular 'higher power' you follow). God can forgive even the unforgivable, He can do the impossible - otherwise He would not be worshipped. You have faith otherwise you wouldn't be concerned with whether God could forgive you. It's you that doesn't want to forgive yourself - God forgave you before any of this even happened. That's just how it works.

Being steadfast when there is no great challenge is easy. This is a test and you are going to make it through because you DO have a good moral compass. Now is the time for faith. Now is the time to prove that you can forgive as God commanded - forgiving yourself is the hardest challenge of all. If your moral compass wasn't still pointing up then you wouldn't have this struggle at all. Now it's time to overcome the struggle and move forward. Your husband deserves to have his best friend and wife back, fully present, not living in the past.

Take care, sheepdog.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2013, 04:10:10 PM »

... .   And I don't want anyone to feel I'm judging others and what they do.  Flawed people are usually some of my favorite people

OK... .   when it comes to flawed people... .   what about sheepdog? Other flawed people are you favorites, but not yourself. What's with that? 

And yes, I think Arabella hit a big nail right on the head there--you were manipulated, you were taken advantage of.

I just re-read first post in this thread--he started with talking of suicide early, and used that to manipulate you.

That thought hits home to me--I had a "friend" when I was in my teens who I decided (after the fact) was some sort of nutjob. (He was a pathological liar for sure... .   Right now I'm wondering about BPD (w/NPD traits)... .   not that a diagnosis matters now since he is gone from my life.) I remember talking on the phone for hours into the night. I remember being sucked in because I was afraid that he would commit suicide if I hung up on him. I also remember him pulling the same exact crap, when I got tired of it... .   with my younger sister (who had a bizarre dating relationship with him, except that she never saw his house, and it was mostly over the phone)... .   then my mother [no dating, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ]... .   then tried it with my girlfriend, and maybe another friend. He sorta continued to stalk my sister through my mom for quite a while, and I even got an email from him 20 years later. Just plain bizarre.

But I gotta say that the suicide stuff is powerful. Today I've got better resources. (The big red "EMERGENCY" link on the bottom of each post here has good information on how to deal with someone who is talking about suicide) I do think it should be taken seriously, and not just written off as a way to manipulate you... .   but sometimes it sure does get used for manipulation too!

Then AFTER he had broken you down with various manipulative games and stunts, he initiated all the stuff that you are ashamed of. Not you. He did started it.

His behavior was abusive. You were being backed into this corner, not seeking something dark and evil. I know you have regrets about how far you did let things go. But remember you weren't trying to do any of it! Your story is not one of those "I know what it is wrong, but I just can't stop myself from going back for more... .   " kind of stories

I hope you are able to forgive yourself soon. You weren't acting out of any dark motivation--It sounds like your kindness and concern for another person was the source of this. That is nothing to be ashamed of.
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 05:10:32 PM »

Ok, I am beginning to understand you a little better.  You fear your husband finding out and what it will do to him, you and your marriage.  You also struggle with can you live with yourself if you keep it secret.  Those are valid fears Sheep.

I think you have crossed a "boundary" that you dont know how to come back from and you feel lost.  Its totally out of your element to solve.  Am I right?

Ive been there.

Please dont take me as a bad person, but it would be your word against this guys right?  What are the odds that this guy is going to come back around?

laelle - you completely nailed it.  All of the above first two paragraphs is how I feel.  I can not get past it, over it, through it, don't know what to do with it.

It is my word against his but he has some emails but I can't remember what they say and I am afraid of his leverage with that.  He has not contacted me, doubt he will, but he is mentally ill and him telling before me telling would be devastating.

There are a few things you've said here, sheepdog, that struck a chord.

Excerpt
She gave me a book on shame and I am 2/3 of the way through. It is not helping. All of the adults in the book had horrible things happen to them. Things they did not choose.

Look, I wasn't there and I don't have all the details etc; however, a lot of what you describe as happening did very much happen TO you. I'm a bit concerned about posting this because it may trigger all sorts of re-victimization issues for you, especially if you were subject to some childhood trauma (as you indicated in your first post) but... .   Are you sure that some of this shame isn't stemming from being a victim? A loss of control? Because, honestly, if you are telling a man "no" repeatedly and he still insists and starts touching you - that is sexual assault. It is nothing but victim-blaming to say that a woman 'should have fought back more', 'should have said no more often or in a different tone', or 'should have screamed', or 'she sort of participated at the end' or any other ridiculous thing. No means no. The end. Manipulating a friend, especially one that he knows has little experience in sexual relations, into having any sort of physical contact that is unwanted is sexual abuse and it is wrong (and illegal - but now you see why so many sexual assaults go unreported). I think you may need to shift your perspective here a little. I am really, truly, very sorry that this happened to you but you can not continue to justify the behaviour of your BPDexfriend by saying that it is all your fault. Maybe it's time to look at that book your T gave you in a new light?

You sound like you are struggling a lot with keeping this experience from your husband. Sheepdog, I'm sorry, but I don't think you're going to be able to work through this without him. Can you talk to your therapist and come up with an action plan? Perhaps your therapist could even meet with both of you to help you tell him? Your husband deserves the truth and you deserve to live in the truth and not be hiding and self-shaming. Stop the cycle.

Excerpt
I've always been so steadfast in my faith.  My moral compass was always pointing up, or at least trying to.

As for faith... .   What is faith but belief in the unbelievable? It is nothing to believe that nothing is more than ourselves. It is faith to believe that a greater power exists that is capable of far more than little 'ol us (I don't think it really matters which particular 'higher power' you follow). God can forgive even the unforgivable, He can do the impossible - otherwise He would not be worshipped. You have faith otherwise you wouldn't be concerned with whether God could forgive you. It's you that doesn't want to forgive yourself - God forgave you before any of this even happened. That's just how it works.

Being steadfast when there is no great challenge is easy. This is a test and you are going to make it through because you DO have a good moral compass. Now is the time for faith. Now is the time to prove that you can forgive as God commanded - forgiving yourself is the hardest challenge of all. If your moral compass wasn't still pointing up then you wouldn't have this struggle at all. Now it's time to overcome the struggle and move forward. Your husband deserves to have his best friend and wife back, fully present, not living in the past.

Take care, sheepdog.

arabella, you as well gave me so much to think about.  What you said in the first paragraph really struck a cord with me.  We actually had several convesrsations about how I needed him to stop.  But a couple of these took place when we were laying on his bed talking so really - how dumb am I?  And I have to be honest - when I first met him I thought he was a really nice, 'upbeat' buy (holy crap how wrong THAT was) but I had ZERO attraction to him.  Even if I did not have a husband, I would have had zero attraction to him.  I don't know how he did it but toward the end of the physical part of our relationship (before everything imploded and we went back to no physical stuff) I *craved* his touch.  I was like an addict. 

I don't know if I can get trhough this without my husband but when I think of telling him, the pain it would bring, the trust it would devastate - I just want to die.  I have been feeling like that a lot.  If I start to think about it, I get the most intense panic attacks.

Your last sentence, about what my husband deserves, made me cry so hard.  You are right.

But I really don't think I can forgive myself for this.  I don't.

... .   And I don't want anyone to feel I'm judging others and what they do.  Flawed people are usually some of my favorite people

OK... .   when it comes to flawed people... .   what about sheepdog? Other flawed people are you favorites, but not yourself. What's with that? 

And yes, I think Arabella hit a big nail right on the head there--you were manipulated, you were taken advantage of.

I just re-read first post in this thread--he started with talking of suicide early, and used that to manipulate you.

That thought hits home to me--I had a "friend" when I was in my teens who I decided (after the fact) was some sort of nutjob. (He was a pathological liar for sure... .   Right now I'm wondering about BPD (w/NPD traits)... .   not that a diagnosis matters now since he is gone from my life.) I remember talking on the phone for hours into the night. I remember being sucked in because I was afraid that he would commit suicide if I hung up on him. I also remember him pulling the same exact crap, when I got tired of it... .   with my younger sister (who had a bizarre dating relationship with him, except that she never saw his house, and it was mostly over the phone)... .   then my mother [no dating, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ]... .   then tried it with my girlfriend, and maybe another friend. He sorta continued to stalk my sister through my mom for quite a while, and I even got an email from him 20 years later. Just plain bizarre.

But I gotta say that the suicide stuff is powerful. Today I've got better resources. (The big red "EMERGENCY" link on the bottom of each post here has good information on how to deal with someone who is talking about suicide) I do think it should be taken seriously, and not just written off as a way to manipulate you... .   but sometimes it sure does get used for manipulation too!

Then AFTER he had broken you down with various manipulative games and stunts, he initiated all the stuff that you are ashamed of. Not you. He did started it.

His behavior was abusive. You were being backed into this corner, not seeking something dark and evil. I know you have regrets about how far you did let things go. But remember you weren't trying to do any of it! Your story is not one of those "I know what it is wrong, but I just can't stop myself from going back for more... .   " kind of stories

I hope you are able to forgive yourself soon. You weren't acting out of any dark motivation--It sounds like your kindness and concern for another person was the source of this. That is nothing to be ashamed of.

But my story did turn into that.  As I said to arabella above, I craved him, wanted him, it was like I hummed when he was around.

I appreciate your thoughts but my kindness and concern should have been focused on my husband and what I was doing to him. 
Logged
Phoenix.Rising
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1021



« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2013, 09:32:50 AM »

None of us our saints.  We all 'fall short', so to speak.  It is part of the human condition.  We were made that way!  We are perfectly imperfect.  I understand sending negative messages to oneself, but part of recovery is changing those negative tapes we play in our heads to positive ones, even if we don't believe it or feel like it.  God does forgive you for your mistakes.  You are not unique in making mistakes.  We all fall into that category.  You are not any worse of a 'sinner' than anyone else.  This is the reality.  So why can't you forgive yourself?  What makes you so special?  Those are tough questions, but I have to ask the same ones to myself at times. 

I can tell from your posts that you are a kind, sensitive, empathetic, loving person.  You are not bad.  You are not a mistake.  On the contrary, you are a good person, worthy of love and light.  You are accepted on this forum.  You are accepted by your Creator, all of you, good and 'bad'.

Relationships with pwBPD seem to have a tendency to really blow our worlds open, where we end up feeling completely beaten down and broken.  Then we have to look hard at ourselves and realize that we probably had our own wounds that had been there for a long time.  In that sense, the pwBPD was a gift to us.  I believe everything happens for a reason.  The pain and misery can be catalysts toward positive change if we allow it.  I don't believe it was a mistake that you had a relationship with the pwBPD.  There is a gift in it if you choose to receive it.  Why do you hate yourself?  There is nothing wrong with you.  Keep looking.  I'm sorry you are hurting so much.   
Logged

arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2013, 12:16:12 PM »

We actually had several convesrsations about how I needed him to stop.  But a couple of these took place when we were laying on his bed talking so really - how dumb am I?  And I have to be honest - when I first met him I thought he was a really nice, 'upbeat' buy (holy crap how wrong THAT was) but I had ZERO attraction to him.  Even if I did not have a husband, I would have had zero attraction to him.  I don't know how he did it but toward the end of the physical part of our relationship (before everything imploded and we went back to no physical stuff) I *craved* his touch.  I was like an addict. 

I don't know if I can get trhough this without my husband but when I think of telling him, the pain it would bring, the trust it would devastate - I just want to die.  I have been feeling like that a lot.  If I start to think about it, I get the most intense panic attacks.

Your last sentence, about what my husband deserves, made me cry so hard.  You are right.

But I really don't think I can forgive myself for this.  I don't.

*****

But my story did turn into that.  As I said to arabella above, I craved him, wanted him, it was like I hummed when he was around.

I appreciate your thoughts but my kindness and concern should have been focused on my husband and what I was doing to him. 

Sheepdog, I've edited what you've said (above) to get to some of the fundamentals. Your question, "how dumb am I?" because of where your conversation took place - just stop right there. You are not dumb and this is not your fault. The location of a conversation does NOT EVER justify sexual assault. No means no. I don't care if you were dancing naked in front of him. This is just more victim-blaming (in your case, self-blaming and self-shaming). Please stop. What he did is not okay. NOT OKAY. And your word against his? Yes, that's generally what happens in assault cases. That's what perpetrators count on to keep their victims silent. It's very wrong. Please consider calling a sexual assault helpline. Just ask a few questions, tell them how you're feeling - I guarantee that your story is going to, unfortunately, not be new to them. Please, Sheepdog, you need to stop taking on the weight of this alone, it's not right.

The after effects, "craving him" etc. - that is often the case with assault victims. It's similar to Stockholm Syndrome and mostly it's a psychological protection mechanism. Unfortunately it can also cause a lot of long term emotional baggage, as you are discovering.

Should you have been thinking of your husband while another person was using every weapon at his disposal to violate your boundaries? Uhh... .   sure you could argue that, but I'd say you had your hands (mind) full already dealing with a sexual predator. In any event, you can't undo the past - you can only move forward. If you can't forgive yourself for your own benefit (and I'm not sure there's as much to 'forgive' as you think, per my previous comments), you might consider forgiving yourself for your husband's sake. And you aren't even giving him a chance to 'forgive' you - do you think you'll ever be able to trust him to do that for you?
Logged
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced January 2012
Posts: 11551



« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2013, 12:20:32 PM »

Sheepdog,

I had a childhood with a lot of sketchy physical abuse from my brother. I've done some work around that, and how it ties into my current emotions.

You say you feel like you're 12. It sounds possible that something did happen to you as a kid? Lying there not doing anything while someone does something to you. I totally understand that, it happened to me too. Shame is a powerful, powerful psychological and emotional way of coping with something we can't deal with in the moment, but it's benefits wear off and it starts to choke us later in life.

If this is connected to repressed shame from childhood, then "letting" this happen means something entirely different as a child than it does as an adult. It means that you are emotionally regressing to a child's age and experiencing the shame of "letting" in exactly the same way you might have as a kid. The work with your T is really, really important, if you'll allow yourself to go back into those feelings.



Logged

Breathe.
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2013, 09:44:09 PM »

I so appreciate everyone's comments.  I do.  I am sitting here just numb.  We went to the movies tonight with two other couples.  A nice time but I am just finding it hard to be normal. 

I hear what the three of you are saying about the sexual abuse, etc... .   But my mind tells me that is just an excuse to justify a really bad thing I did.  I'm not being belligerent.  Not undermining what you are saying.  It's just how I fell.

My therapist does not want to explore my past, FOO, possible molestation until, "THIS is resolved."  Her exact words.  I am assuming that 'this' means me and BPD and what the draw was to him, the insanely strong pull.  I asked her if it was connected to the possible sexual assault of my childhood, or to someone he may remind me of, or chaos or something, and she said we couldn't start working on that until we had worked on he and I.

So I don't know.

See? the thing is, no my husband and I didn't have the perfect relationship - no one does - but he is perfect for me and I used to be for him.  It was he and I.  I love the elderly.  Our uncle recently passed away.  He had been with our aut for 65 years.  Never looked at another woman.  I can't say that now.  I have ruined that.  Have ruined our 'you and me against the world.' 

I just now got a text from one of the couples saying how much she loves me and how 'what you see is what you get' and how she and her husband had so much fun tonight.  And I want to just scream.  She has no idea.

My therapist thinks it is significant for some reason that I never let him have sex with me, never really touched him.  I don't know.  Cheating doesn't have to mean full penetration.  It doesn't mean touching even.  I let BPD into my heart, told him private things, let him touch me. 

I have therapy tomorrow.  I don't really know what to say.

I feel lost.

Even this post, I feel like I'm whining.  I was stunned when livednlearned responded because no other ambassador or board leader has touched any of my posts.  And that gets all mucked in with my toxic shame and I tell myself, "See?  he ambassadors see right through you.  You are dirty and they don't even want to answer you."

I'm a mess.

In the movie tonight, a character died and I almost had a panic attack thinking about my own death.  I used to lie awake at night as a child scared to die and I felt that tonight.  I feel I am not going to Heaven.  Not going to see my mom and other loved ones (even though some friends of a different religion told me that they believe you don't recognize each other up there).

I really just wish I could go back in time four years.  Back to a time when, even though I didn't KNOW myself, I recognized myself.
Logged
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced January 2012
Posts: 11551



« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2013, 03:51:36 PM »

I don't think you're dirty, or whiny, or bad. I think you're brave for doing this, being honest, going to therapy, trying to understand what happened.

I believe something deep inside us moves ourselves in the direction we most need to heal, whether we like it or not. The more we don't want to acknowledge it, the stronger the compulsion to deal with it.

Do you want to be rid of the shame? It seems like it is terrorizing you, but then you also seem to be... .   taking sides with it?



Logged

Breathe.
arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »

I hear what the three of you are saying about the sexual abuse, etc... .   But my mind tells me that is just an excuse to justify a really bad thing I did.  I'm not being belligerent.  Not undermining what you are saying.  It's just how I fell.

My therapist does not want to explore my past, FOO, possible molestation until, "THIS is resolved."  Her exact words.  I am assuming that 'this' means me and BPD and what the draw was to him, the insanely strong pull.  I asked her if it was connected to the possible sexual assault of my childhood, or to someone he may remind me of, or chaos or something, and she said we couldn't start working on that until we had worked on he and I.

Do you want to be rid of the shame? It seems like it is terrorizing you, but then you also seem to be... .   taking sides with it?

I think you're being very honest, very brave, and strong right now, Sheepdog. Maybe you don't believe in yourself right now but other people do. That can be really hard to accept too. You are your harshest critic. And you are most definitely not a bad person!

Have you discussed with your T that perhaps some of your history needs to be discussed because it directly impacts THIS? I get that your T doesn't want to get bogged down in your FOO issues but, if the two things are intimately related, then you are just dancing around finding the root of your current torment. You may HAVE to explore some of that old stuff in order to understand the current stuff. Nothing happens in isolation.

livednlearned makes a good point - it sounds like you are defending the feelings of shame. I don't mean this in a critical way, more an observation. You sound like you want to blame yourself. This is along the lines of an earlier comment I made re your subconscious wanting to be 'in control' - to not feel like a victim. The amount of responsibility you are taking is not healthy. Yes, recognizing our own roles and taking responsibility for our actions is important, but you sound like you've taken it to a problematic extreme. Your feelings about what happened are exactly the way an abuser grooms you to feel, wants you to feel, needs you to feel... .   in order to get away with it and to feel like they aren't the 'bad person'.

Can you take a print out of this thread to your T? Maybe some of your posts and the responses here could give her some insight into being able to help you?
Logged
C12P21
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2512



« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2013, 02:26:09 PM »

When I read your posts Sheep Dog, it is so obvious that you are a caring, compassionate person. You feel remorse and regret for your actions, are concerned about your husband's response, you obviously feel loyalty toward your husband and the relationship. Your emotions and confusion about your actions are normal and healthy because you are examining what happened and the harder part is understanding the why it happened.

Right now you are sorting through events of the past and how they are linked to your choices and behaviors. When I read the sequence of the events, it is fairly obvious this man manipulated you, your trust, and your confused emotional state.

When a person experiences sexual trauma in childhood or the teen years, there are psychological consequences that impact the adult years. These consequences causes an impairment, the impairment is manifested in various ways, each unique to the individual. Since you are experiencing shame, remorse, regret, and concern it's pretty obvious you have the ability to feel your feelings, understand how your actions impact others, and are responsible enough to evaluate what has happened and take responsibility. You are amazing  .

You stopped the abuse of your adult abuser, the friend you describe is no friend, he is a sexual predator. Yes, you trusted him, yes, you may have been drawn toward him, and you know what, that's okay... .   but somewhere along the way, there were boundary violations and you ended up feeling shamed and confused. What is really wonderful is you stopped further violations of your boundaries, somewhere inside you was strength and wisdom to listen to your inner voice that warns you... .   and you listened.   

Now the hard work is sorting through it all and you are doing this.

The impairment of early childhood or teen sexual trauma is the sense of shame the victim is left with, sometimes the victim tries very hard throughout their life to be good, to erase the shame that was deposited in our psyche during the times of our violations. And all the confusion of our shame remains hidden until an event occurs that opens us up to that wound, we feel it, we cannot erase it, we cannot wash it away by being super clean, a perfect person, or a faithful servant... .   it is there and it is an opportunity for personal growth.

Right now, you are shining a light on that shame... . you are expressing your emotional pain on this board, examining yourself,going to therapy, and evaluating your faith. As painful as this is, the work is being done by you to ensure you know your boundaries and you feel firm with them.

I realize your T wants you to evaluate the present situation before looking at your childhood. What might happen is as you go through this, memories of childhood events will be recalled and sometimes those memories are significant in how those earlier events shaped you and influenced your thinking about yourself and your responses to situations in adult life.

From my own experience, when I was sexually abused in adult life or dating years, I realized the numbness I experienced was my response to not knowing how to defend myself, not understanding my conflicted emotions, (I trusted this person, loved them and wanted affection but not sex and did not know how to say STOP because I felt responsible for their desire of me and did not want to hurt their feelings, after all, wasn't I in the room with them. This is victim blaming... .   I did it to myself and felt way more responsible for what happened than the predators did) and in the aftermath much of what I experienced emotionally is similar to what you are stating.

You might discuss with your therapist your fear that the predator will disclose the events to your husband. Perhaps she can guide you in taking steps to protect yourself.

 
Excerpt
I can't say that now.  I have ruined that.  Have ruined our 'you and me against the world.'

No, you haven't ruined this, you have just been exposed to the world, and your inner wound is unveiled. Someone you trusted was in your home and he is a predator, the world came to your doorstep. You are taking steps to understand your response to the wolf in sheep's clothing. Right now you are struggling to accept that since you fell into the trap of the world, can Christ forgive you, will God forgive you. That fear, that shame and grief is what drives us into the world... . it takes courage to forgive ourselves and accept God's promise.

And one other thing, you mention that your fear is you will not get into heaven. Since you are a Christian, I ask this of you... . did Christ not take on the sins of world on that cross? Did he not know what it felt like, in that moment, to experience the shame of every sin there is? Did he not understand your heart in that moment?

Excerpt
The effect of falling away is to re-crucify Christ and put Him to open shame. When Christ went to the cross and died as our substitute He died to make us right with God. When we turn our backs on Him and return to the world we are saying the world is more worthy than the love of Christ. We are saying in effect that we agree with those who crucified Christ.

The author is not describing backsliding Christians or believers who have fallen into sin. Even Peter who denied Christ three times was "renewed unto repentance." The sin described in this passage is not the sin of a believer, but the open total renunciation of the person and work of Jesus Christ. Peter experienced the work of the Holy Spirit in his heart because he was a true believer. The unbeliever does not experience this kind of change in the heart.

The Bible is emphatic that the grace and forgiveness of sins and cleansing in the blood of Christ is freely available to every believer who sins and comes to Him confessing them (Heb. 4:14-16; 10:19-22; 1 John 1:7-10; 2:1-2).

Accepting that we are loved by a higher power, by God himself, the mystery that created us is to know God. Life is a gift, you are the gift. If this were not true, when Christ was on the cross, he would have stated "Forgive them, with the exception of Sheepdog, she isn't here right now but will show up in a couple of thousand years" (I hope you know I am making a point here, right?)

Don't allow the actions of predator to shame you away from the love that is there and the joy of knowing you are precious. You may not experience this joy right now as you struggle with your conscience, your emotions, and all the confusion but my hope is you know this, he is carrying you and his steps will not falter. 

C

Logged
AnotherPhoenix
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced. Was married for 16 years
Posts: 448



« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2013, 07:02:11 PM »

  Hi Sheepdog,

How are you doing today?

I apologize for not responding to your post until now. My life has gotten very messy over the last two weeks.

May I give you a warm, caring hug over the internet? 

Can you take a print out of this thread to your T? Maybe some of your posts and the responses here could give her some insight into being able to help you?

This sounds like a good idea.

Your exBPD figured out what would "hook" you, make you "buzz"--manipulators are great at this, and then used it. You were trusting with him, and he took advantage of it. 

Shame on him!

Can you put this shame back onto him?

I agree with what Arabella and LnL have said: You are being very honest, brave, and strong by examining what happened with your T and in this forum.

AnotherPheonix    Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)


Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2013, 07:55:24 PM »

I honestly can not thank all of you enough to 'talking' to me about all this.

I guess that I am 'taking sides with it.'  But honestly, shouldn't I be?  I broke one of the BIG TEN, a commandment, I abused the trust of my husband, I totally lost myself for a while.  How long is too short to move on?  Do you know what I mean?  I'm not going to rob a bank, not going to kill someone - this is probably the worst thing I will ever do in my life.  I can't just be like, "Oh, I messed up.  Time to move on."  What is the consequence?  Unless the consequence is Hell, which scares me so bad I can't even think about it.

C - you wrote that you felt it was your own fault because, "I was in the room, wasn't I?"  I soo understand what you mean.

I had an extremely difficult therapy session a couple weeks ago.  She wanted to get into *details.*  She wanted all the details about the first time we were physical... .  was it skin on skin, how much touching, etc.  It was not skin on skin and somehow I was completely naked while he was clothed.  I kissed back but did not touch him at all.  (Sorry if this is tmi but it is necessary to what comes next.)  I say somehow because this is the part that really struck me.  She asked me how I was feeling once we started to kiss and he to touch me.  I got confused and said not much and asked her what she meant. 

She said a normal, healthy adult that was doing what I was doing would be feeling/thinking one of two ways:

1.  "Oh yes!  Finally!  We're getting together!"

or

2.  "I need to stop this.  This can not happen."

I told her I didn't feel either of those ways.  So she dug more and asked again.  I told her I wasn't feeling much.  That it was like I was somewhere else.  I had a fleeting thought of, "I'm kissing someone who is not my husband" and "this is wrong" and then... .  nothing.  It was like I was watching myself but not there.  She asked if I climaxed (again, sorry if tmi) and I didn't, not then or the next few times.  (He told me later that he thought that was weird and that he could not tell if I did or not most times.  And I think he was hell-bent on chaning that.  I remember the first time I must have given in to it, he said, "Finally.  I could really *feel* you were with me."

Anyway, she told me the technical term for it but now I'm getting confused with BPD ters but I think it was detaching?  Disassociating?  Something like that.  And she said that what I felt when it was happening put even more light on the fact that I was probably abused as a child because what I did was not a normal response to that situation.

I haven't been able to go back since because I went out of town.  And I'm so frustrated for two reasons:

1.  As far as the possibility of sexual abuse:  I.  CAN NOT.  REMEMBER.  And it upsets me so much.  What if I made it up?

2.  Even though I did not feel anything, was not even an iota turned on AT ALL, I still wanted it to happen.  I remember wondering that night what it would feel like if we kissed.  I would never have initiated but I did wonder/want it.  What does that say about me?

I'm left now feeling so... .  I don't even know the word.

I can not recognize that girl.  I don't see how she fell for it.  Why she wanted it.

I'm just so... .  sad... .  

Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2013, 09:47:19 PM »

Sheepdog, what you described in your reaction, where you "weren't feeling much" instead of

1.  "Oh yes!  Finally!  We're getting together!"

or

2.  "I need to stop this.  This can not happen."

Dissosciating is a psychological term, not just for BPDs... .  but it is a BPD behavior, so we have a Workshop on it. Perhaps reading this link will help you understand what you were doing.

Whether you were abused before or not is an important piece of the "who is sheepdog" puzzle... .  but if you don't remember, you don't remember. You can still heal from this event whether you remember anything before or not.

Even though I did not feel anything, was not even an iota turned on AT ALL, I still wanted it to happen.  I remember wondering that night what it would feel like if we kissed.  I would never have initiated but I did wonder/want it.  What does that say about me?

What does it say about you? Mostly it says that you are a human being who has thoughts and urges and feelings. Not all of them are good. You are a good person and you do your best NOT to act on the bad ones. (In this case you had a lot of pressure from the pwBPD, and you still resisted as much as you could at the time.)

I've done some intensive meditation retreats, where I try to sit quietly and follow my breathing, instead of getting lost in thoughts. Of course I have thoughts and get distracted, then go back to concentrating. (again and again and again!) One of the things my teacher told me was that MANY people after doing this have a reaction: "I used to think I was a nice person" We ALL have 'bad' thoughts and feelings. Most of us don't act on them, and mostly we don't even pay much attention to them.

Excerpt
I can not recognize that girl.  I don't see how she fell for it.  Why she wanted it.

Oh sheepdog!   I hope you can just find a way to forgive that girl. That is what I'm wishing for you.

Maybe understanding is a step on that path.
Logged
laelle
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1737


« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2013, 02:37:39 AM »

  We all love and support you Sheep.  Its a HUGE step to be able to talk about our deepest hopes and darkest fears.

I like your T btw.  She seems very knowledgeable and I know she will reach that little girl in Sheep who is hurting so badly.

We can be our own worst enemy, or we can be our best friend.

Love yourself hun, you are so worth it. 
Logged
C12P21
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2512



« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2013, 10:11:45 PM »

You are asking and questioning and there is not too much information... .  this is the place to let it out and share your story and my hope is to receive validation and support.

It sounds like your T is on the right track in her helping you to understand the experience you went through.

Excerpt
I told her I didn't feel either of those ways.  So she dug more and asked again.  I told her I wasn't feeling much.  That it was like I was somewhere else.  I had a fleeting thought of, "I'm kissing someone who is not my husband" and "this is wrong" and then... .  nothing.  It was like I was watching myself but not there. 

This is so key... .  how you felt and experienced the situation, like you weren't all there. In such moments of dissociation you are vulnerable because your mind, body and emotions are not congruent, its a confusing experience and in those moments it is hard to understand what you are experiencing or to protect yourself.

This gives me shudders:

Excerpt
I remember the first time I must have given in to it, he said, "Finally.  I could really *feel* you were with me."

If a caring, compassionate person realized you were not fully present and in the moment, don't you think they would understand you are conflicted and take that as a sign that the events are overwhelming? He didn't... .  he lacked empathy of YOUR experience in that moment and turned it back toward him, what he got from the encounter, not you.   This is manipulation of you and why he is toxic... . and a predator. He realized your distance and rather than seeing this as a boundary... .  and a signal, he continued anyway.

My hope is as you become aware of the times you experience such disconnect from yourself, when you feel out of balance and confused you are able to see this as a moment where you need to protect yourself. Confusion is the brain building new pathways and that is what you are doing, something is triggered inside you and your mind is trying to figure it out... .  

We are here, we support you and see your strength.

C
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2013, 07:34:44 PM »

I really can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you.  Have not been back to therapy yet and won't be able to for a couple of weeks and my mind won't stop.

As far as the dissociation - it truly was like a zinger to me when she explained what a healthy adult would have felt in that situation.  It made me feel somewhat 'better'... .  until I remembered that I had *wanted* him to kiss me.  And that, later on down the line, I *welcomed* his touch to the point where even just standing next to him turned me on. 

C, as far as what you wrote here:

This gives me shudders:

Quote

I remember the first time I must have given in to it, he said, "Finally.  I could really *feel* you were with me."

If a caring, compassionate person realized you were not fully present and in the moment, don't you think they would understand you are conflicted and take that as a sign that the events are overwhelming? He didn't... .  he lacked empathy of YOUR experience in that moment and turned it back toward him, what he got from the encounter, not you.  This is manipulation of you and why he is toxic... . and a predator. He realized your distance and rather than seeing this as a boundary... .  and a signal, he continued anyway.


Your post also gave me a zing.  And made me feel better.  Until I thought about it some more.  I can not even tell you how what I was doing with him was a topic we discussed CONSTANTLY.  I cried in his arms or on the floor in a ball so many times.  We had a convo once after I found out that he was having an affair with our friend.  (It's gonna get a little graphic here.  I am so sorry.)

 

Anyway, he was always saying that he wished I would just do it with him and how he knew it would be mind-blowing and how he wished he could feel himself inside me... .  just once.  I never altered, never let him.  I also have already mentioned that he rarely... .  released.  It was always him working on me.  I know he had sexual problems as the beginning of the end of our relationship was when I found his Viagra. 

One day he said in this very honest (I thought) way how hard it was to never have me touch him, never have him be inside me... .  it made me feel so bad. Like I was *using* him to - release.  he had told me long before we started anything that he'd had ten sexual partners but only released/been inside one or two and that they never noticed.  I was feeling so bad because I realized that is what I was doing.  The next time we got together, I asked him if he'd like to release and so he did.  He said it was the first time he had in years (he and his wife never had sex).  He said that I was the first one that had given him an orgasm in forever.  He made it seem so... .  special.  A week later I figured out he was boinking our friend and asked him about it.  Then a month later I found the viagra. 

Anyway, after I found out about our friend (and before the Great Viagra Meltdown) we were talking about it and he said of having sex with her that it was 'terrible', 'two lost souls', 'he couldn't even come unless he was thinking of me', 'he felt nothing', 'she was all over him', 'she wouldn't stop and he told her to', etc.  A few weeks later when he was all over me again, I asked him how it felt when our friend was all over him and he said it made him feel so bad especially since he'd asked her repeatedly to stop.  I then said, "then why are you doing it to me now?  I've told you i don't want to do this anymore."  A few days later, same convo and he throws up his hands and says, "I don't KNOW!  I don't know WHY I do it.  I just want you so bad and it's like... .  it's like, I can tell when you're open to it and when you're not... .  "  I believe he was right.    He must have been able to sense it.  I sent out vibes. 

I am rambling.  This has just been a really bad week.  Thanks.
Logged
C12P21
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2512



« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2013, 02:28:43 AM »

Sheepdog,

You are sorting through it all and that is normal. Yes, you might have desired him to touch you, or you might have sent out vibes but the reality is this-when the event happened, you were not all there. As the relationship evolved you became confused... .  and obviously, he lied to you and continued to manipulate you.

Have you stopped to consider what drove you toward this person?

Here is a link that might help you understand yourself.

www.rainn.org/get-information/effects-of-sexual-assault/adult-survivors-of-childhood-sexual-abuse

Sadly, what you have described and are going through is not unique-but there is hope.

Please keep posting, we are here. 

C

Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2013, 05:59:24 PM »

Thanks, C

I'm just having a really, really bad week.

I'm trying not to, trying to change my attitude.

I just don't know how I'm going to get over this.  I really don't.

When you can't recognize yourself and what you've done, when you know that you hurt as hard as you could the person that loves you so much, when you realize what you're capable of, that you're not who you thought you were... .  where do you go from there?

Logged
Cumulus
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 413



« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2013, 07:41:13 PM »

Hi sheepdog, I feel so much courage from your posts. And sadness. I believe when we are totally broken, when we have no way to fix ourself, and we have left all excuses behind, is when we can begin to grow. That is where you can go from where you are and so many of us here are, or have been. It changed me. I am not the same person I was. I always believed I was sufficient to meet all of my needs. Being totally broken made me realize how untrue that was.

Logged
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced January 2012
Posts: 11551



« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2013, 11:04:50 AM »

Thanks, C

I'm just having a really, really bad week.

I'm trying not to, trying to change my attitude.

I just don't know how I'm going to get over this.  I really don't.

When you can't recognize yourself and what you've done, when you know that you hurt as hard as you could the person that loves you so much, when you realize what you're capable of, that you're not who you thought you were... .  where do you go from there?

You grow. It feels scary to do it, but trust where it takes you. There is an excellent chance that you are going to end up feeling more solid about who you are than when you started. Not that it's going to be easy getting there -- that part is going to hurt a lot. But when you get to the solid part, that part feels better than anything.

I think it's the deeply spiritual part of what many of us have had to confront while coming to terms with our BPD relationships. At a certain point, you look at yourself, sometimes for the very first time, and just that alone can be frightening. You really see yourself. Right now, you're at the point where you're feeling the pain of being honest, not only with yourself, but with others. Your T, your friends here.

Next, you'll emotionally start to work through your guilt and shame. Things are definitely going to shift around for you because grown-up Sheepdog is built on childhood Sheepdog, and it sounds like there are shadows from your childhood that need to be aired out. After that, if you are true to the emotions, you'll find forgiveness.

Try to have compassion for yourself, for the child in you. Take care of her first.

That's the secret.



Logged

Breathe.
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2013, 06:13:31 PM »

Thank you both.  I know I sound like a broken record.  I made an appointment for next weekend.

I have such incredible fear - of my husband finding out, of others finding out, of others already knowing... .  every little 'slight' (whether it is a slight or not) is me 1000% sure they *know*.

If people knew, I would have to just disappear.

And whether or not to tell my husband - it weighs on me.

I think if I knew no one would find out, I could grow.  There are people at work who are constantly telling me how they love me, how nice I am, how amazing.  I am positive if they knew what I'd done, what I am - they would not speak to me again.

I want to run away.  Leave this town.  Disappear.

What I'm stuck on is that I broke myself.  If BPD had been my boyfriend, if I hadn't cheated, etc. - then I think I could lift myself up from this.  Bit because I did this, I just... .  can't.
Logged
arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2013, 06:40:53 PM »

I think if I knew no one would find out, I could grow.  There are people at work who are constantly telling me how they love me, how nice I am, how amazing.  I am positive if they knew what I'd done, what I am - they would not speak to me again.

Sheepdog.   I'm so glad to hear that you are still trying to receive help. You deserve to be happy again. (Yes you do!)

We found out. We know what you've done. And guess what? We still think you're nice and amazing! You are acting as judge, jury, and executioner not only for yourself but everyone else around you. I know it's only easy to say - but try to practice compassion.
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2013, 07:57:56 PM »

I think if I knew no one would find out, I could grow.  There are people at work who are constantly telling me how they love me, how nice I am, how amazing.  I am positive if they knew what I'd done, what I am - they would not speak to me again.

Sheepdog.   I'm so glad to hear that you are still trying to receive help. You deserve to be happy again. (Yes you do!)

We found out. We know what you've done. And guess what? We still think you're nice and amazing! You are acting as judge, jury, and executioner not only for yourself but everyone else around you. I know it's only easy to say - but try to practice compassion.

Thank you arabella.

But even on here, people who used to respond to my posts don't anymore.

My healthy mind says they are busy, didn't read it, etc.

The other part KNOWS it is because they found out what I really am.

Very difficult therapy session this am - first one in about 7 weeks.

She thinks I need to see a priest/minister/something and confess... .  
Logged
livednlearned
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced January 2012
Posts: 11551



« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2013, 08:40:50 PM »

I think if I knew no one would find out, I could grow.  There are people at work who are constantly telling me how they love me, how nice I am, how amazing.  I am positive if they knew what I'd done, what I am - they would not speak to me again.

Sheepdog.   I'm so glad to hear that you are still trying to receive help. You deserve to be happy again. (Yes you do!)

We found out. We know what you've done. And guess what? We still think you're nice and amazing! You are acting as judge, jury, and executioner not only for yourself but everyone else around you. I know it's only easy to say - but try to practice compassion.

Thank you arabella.

But even on here, people who used to respond to my posts don't anymore.

My healthy mind says they are busy, didn't read it, etc.

The other part KNOWS it is because they found out what I really am.

Very difficult therapy session this am - first one in about 7 weeks.

She thinks I need to see a priest/minister/something and confess... .  

Listen to your healthy mind   

You're a good person, sheepdog. I admire you so much for overcoming your fears about seeing a T, and sticking to it. I'm always glad when I see that you've posted  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged

Breathe.
arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2013, 08:46:10 PM »

Listen to your healthy mind   

You're a good person, sheepdog. I admire you so much for overcoming your fears about seeing a T, and sticking to it. I'm always glad when I see that you've posted  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Yes - agreed! Your unhealthy mind will tell you all sorts of lies - it would try to convince you that you're responsible for the weather if it could.

How do you feel about the idea of speaking to a religious figure? Is it something that you think might help?
Logged
Cumulus
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 413



« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2013, 07:01:01 AM »

Another here lending support, knowing what you have written and believing you have courage kindness and great love within from what I have read. Do you feel it is harder to forgive yourself then it is others? I know I can struggle with that. I think it comes from demanding perfection from myself and in my life yet understanding and allowing others to be human and forgiving their all too human errors. 
Logged
123Phoebe
Staying and Undecided
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 2070



« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2013, 07:08:03 AM »

Hi Sheepdog

Have you tried applying Radical Acceptance to your own situation?  Acceptance that you're human and not a super hero.  Humans make decisions sometimes that looking back later on, might not have been the best ones.  We ALL have skeletons in our closets.  

Depending on my mood (PMS?), there have times when I've laid in bed, thought about something I did in the past, felt that rush and flush of shame to the max, and pulled the covers over my head!  I've wanted to disappear just like you.  And then you know what I did?  Cracked up laughing at how ridiculous I look if my house was made of glass and anyone could look in and see me.  Then you know what I did?  Imagined everyone's house being see through and the shenanigans going on behind those glass walls and I felt comforted with the fact that we're all imperfect.

You're cute, Sheepdog, and you have a huge heart   Take it easy on yourself



 
Logged
Phoenix.Rising
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1021



« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2013, 12:26:16 PM »

Yes, we are all perfectly imperfect!  I'm glad to hear you are continuing to seek guidance from a professional.  I started seeing a new therapist recently and it has helped.  Others are often able to see our blind-spots.  You are making great progress!  Keep it up!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
Logged

sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2013, 05:29:50 PM »

Thank you, everyone.  I don't really feel I am making progress.  I have been feeling SO much anger the past two weeks.  I talked to therapist about it and she said anger is exactly what I should be feeling but I feel it spilling into other aspects of my life.

No, I can not forgive myself.

I am open to talking to a religious figure about it but I am scared he's going to tell me I'm going to Hell and I have no idea how to explaing all this to him and honestly, unless I hear it straight from God, I don't know that I will believe it.

I am just at a very angry and confused point.

Therapist said I need to tell my husband.  I can't think of anything else.  Feel so sick.  Know the end is coming soon.
Logged
Free One
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: divorced
Posts: 563



« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2013, 05:55:44 PM »

Therapist said I need to tell my husband.  I can't think of anything else.  Feel so sick.  Know the end is coming soon.

I think I might agree. I wonder if you are having such a hard time forgiving yourself because you haven't told him, so in your mind you are still lying to him?
Logged
Cumulus
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 413



« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2013, 08:12:56 PM »

Hey sheepdog, I have no advice to give, just want you to know that I am wishing you well with whatever decisions you need to make. I hope the outcome will lighten the very heavy burden you have been carrying.
Logged
arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2013, 08:31:13 PM »

Sometimes (often times) the anticipation and dread are far worse than the reality. Maybe you do need to talk to a few people in order to let yourself move forward?

I know how overwhelming anger can be. It's exhausting. And being exhausted doesn't help with the confusion, so it's doubly hard. It's part of the process though. You've spoken with a professional (your T) and she said you're where you should be... . Trust that you are going to get through this. You ARE making progress - it's just hard to see when you're living it.

I'm rooting for you, Sheepdog!
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2013, 01:27:31 PM »

Hi there... . I've been offline a lot lately, so I didn't make it here much. Fortunately, I see others offering you some good support here too. I wish I could give you easy answers or wave a magic wand at you. All I can say is that you sound like you want to heal, and that is good progress in itself. 

Keep working, and keep trying to forgive and accept sheepdog!

Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2013, 09:03:23 AM »

Thank you, everyone.  I can't tell you how much your comments are keeping me afloat and making me look at things.

Free One wrote:

I think I might agree. I wonder if you are having such a hard time forgiving yourself because you haven't told him, so in your mind you are still lying to him?

Yes!  That is very much how I feel.  But yesterday, we had a really difficult session - it was really hard for me - but at the end I told her I wanted to talk about anxiety, my fear that BPD is going to tell my husband, and how it just makes me sad that this is going to be 'the last summer with my husband.'  And she asked why.  And I told her that I do think if my husband found out, he would still love me but that it would more than likely be the end of us.  To which she said, "Maybe you won't have to tell him.  Maybe you go and and talk to a religious figure, get yourself right, forgive yourself, and you will be able to move on.'

To which I then said exactly what Free One wrote above and also how the BPD has got an incriminating email.  She said we would talk about it next week.

?
Logged
arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2013, 11:05:30 AM »

What if you spoke to a religious figure and asked him/her what they thought re telling your husband? Perhaps the conversation would give you more clarity re what you want/need to do? It can't hurt and it is a confidential conversation, so it is a safe place to work some of this out. Maybe worth a shot?
Logged
Phoenix.Rising
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1021



« Reply #63 on: May 29, 2013, 04:45:40 PM »

Another thought on amends:  What would be your true motives in telling your husband?  If a significant portion of it would be to assuage your own guilt, then I would advise against it.  In other words, your husband is not your dumping ground, so to speak.  Another thing to consider is this:  Would it cause more harm than good? 

In 12-Step fellowships, Step 9 deals with making amends for harm we have caused others, and it reads like this: "We made direct amends to those we had harmed, except when to do so would injure them or others."  (emphasis mine) 

However, if you feel enough time has passed, you feel significantly healed, and feel it's necessary, then make the amends.  But be prepared for any consequences.  I've been told an amends is making something right.  It's not just saying I'm sorry.  It's making a change.  Someone suggested to me that when I'm making amends to ask the person I've offended what I can do to make the situation right, and then listen to what they have to say.  If you are a praying person, ask for guidance that way first.  Talking to a religious person sounds like a decent idea.  Good luck.
Logged

toomanyeggshells
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced from a non-BPD. I didn't know how good I had it.
Posts: 805



« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2013, 11:16:35 AM »

Sheepdog, I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to reply anyway. I feel somewhat like you do.  My uBPDbf "sucked me in" in sort of the same way, although we did have sex and we were both married.      He told me over and over again how unhappy his marriage was and my (now) x-H and I were growing apart in our marriage so I was also unhappy.  I knew what I was doing was wrong but uBPDbf made me feel special and loved.  I guess any man (with or without BPD) could have done that. 

I divorced a good, loving man to enter into the r/s with uBPDbf and we now own a house together and have lived together for almost 4 years.  UBPDbf is not the same person I fell in love with.  That person was kind, loving and interested in me.  Since we've lived together, uBPDbf is none of those things.

I have tremendous guilt about what I did.  I broke up my family.  Now when I travel to visit my grown daughters, its either by myself or with uBPDbf.  I should be visiting my children with their father - we should be a family but I screwed it up horribly.  I'm trying to figure out how to get over the guilt but I haven't figured that out yet.  I doubt I ever will. 

I have no advice or words of wisdom for you, I just hope you can move toward forgiveness for yourself. 
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2013, 04:39:26 PM »

What if you spoke to a religious figure and asked him/her what they thought re telling your husband? Perhaps the conversation would give you more clarity re what you want/need to do? It can't hurt and it is a confidential conversation, so it is a safe place to work some of this out. Maybe worth a shot?

Hi arabella, yes that is what I would like to do.  I just don't know what to say... . who would believe a BPD and all the stuff that goes along with that and a raging codependent and all the stuff that goes along with that.

My therapist has said that if BPD wasn't so very manipulative and if he wasn't mentally ill and was just another guy that I would not have engaged.

I think a religious figure is just going to think that anything I say is an excuse.


Another thought on amends:  What would be your true motives in telling your husband?  If a significant portion of it would be to assuage your own guilt, then I would advise against it.  In other words, your husband is not your dumping ground, so to speak.  Another thing to consider is this:  Would it cause more harm than good? 

In 12-Step fellowships, Step 9 deals with making amends for harm we have caused others, and it reads like this: "We made direct amends to those we had harmed, except when to do so would injure them or others."  (emphasis mine) 

However, if you feel enough time has passed, you feel significantly healed, and feel it's necessary, then make the amends.  But be prepared for any consequences.  I've been told an amends is making something right.  It's not just saying I'm sorry.  It's making a change.  Someone suggested to me that when I'm making amends to ask the person I've offended what I can do to make the situation right, and then listen to what they have to say.  If you are a praying person, ask for guidance that way first.  Talking to a religious person sounds like a decent idea.  Good luck.

PhoenixRising - BPD has an email that I sent him for safekeeping that he has never given back to me.  When we were still talking, I asked him to print it out for me and then deltet it and he said his printer was out of ink.  When I asked him to email it back to me then delete it, he said that was 'too risky.'  Then he hugged me and promised he would print it out then delete it.  We stopped talking to each other a couple weeks later.

He has not attempted ANY kind of contact with me at all since then - that was August.  But I have such anxiety that he will do soemthing with that email... . that my husband will find out from someone else first.  I don't know if BPD has shown it to anyone or not or if he will.  I feel like a puppet on a string to him with this matter.

Sheepdog, I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to reply anyway. I feel somewhat like you do.  My uBPDbf "sucked me in" in sort of the same way, although we did have sex and we were both married.      He told me over and over again how unhappy his marriage was and my (now) x-H and I were growing apart in our marriage so I was also unhappy.  I knew what I was doing was wrong but uBPDbf made me feel special and loved.  I guess any man (with or without BPD) could have done that. 

I divorced a good, loving man to enter into the r/s with uBPDbf and we now own a house together and have lived together for almost 4 years.  UBPDbf is not the same person I fell in love with.  That person was kind, loving and interested in me.  Since we've lived together, uBPDbf is none of those things.

I have tremendous guilt about what I did.  I broke up my family.  Now when I travel to visit my grown daughters, its either by myself or with uBPDbf.  I should be visiting my children with their father - we should be a family but I screwed it up horribly.  I'm trying to figure out how to get over the guilt but I haven't figured that out yet.  I doubt I ever will. 

I have no advice or words of wisdom for you, I just hope you can move toward forgiveness for yourself. 

toomanyeggshells - thank you for sharing your story.  It sounds like you are still in love with your ex husband?
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #66 on: May 30, 2013, 05:46:29 PM »

... . My therapist has said that if BPD wasn't so very manipulative and if he wasn't mentally ill and was just another guy that I would not have engaged.

I think a religious figure is just going to think that anything I say is an excuse.

sheepdog, that sounds like your own fear and judgement speaking... . not the response I would expect you to get.

Especially since you have personally not just acknowledged that you did something wrong... . you have tried to tear your own soul to shreds over it!

 Keep looking for how you can forgive yourself. You are worth it.
Logged
Phoenix.Rising
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1021



« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2013, 10:17:51 AM »

Whether or not you ever hear from exBPD again, it sounds like you are living in fear, like Grey Kitty mentioned.  Keep working on making peace with yourself and the fear will slowly subside.  I would likely advise against making any amends until you feel more at ease with yourself.  Otherwise, it will probably be hard to determine what your motives are, as fear distorts things.  If exBPD hasn't brought it up in 9 months, hopefully he won't bring it up at all.  One day at a time.  Hang in there!   
Logged

arabella
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 723



« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2013, 12:03:29 PM »

What if you spoke to a religious figure and asked him/her what they thought re telling your husband? Perhaps the conversation would give you more clarity re what you want/need to do? It can't hurt and it is a confidential conversation, so it is a safe place to work some of this out. Maybe worth a shot?

Hi arabella, yes that is what I would like to do.  I just don't know what to say... . who would believe a BPD and all the stuff that goes along with that and a raging codependent and all the stuff that goes along with that.

My therapist has said that if BPD wasn't so very manipulative and if he wasn't mentally ill and was just another guy that I would not have engaged.

I think a religious figure is just going to think that anything I say is an excuse.

Far be it for me to pass judgment on anyone but, Sheepdog, I don't think this is a healthy way to think. I understand that you have been very hurt in the past and that others have betrayed your trust - that is very difficult to get past. You seem to have a very ingrained lack of trust in everyone around you. That makes sense. You don't trust your husband to listen and forgive you. You don't even trust a religious figure to listen and give you advice. Sheep, you are not an island - you can't do all of this work alone. You are passing judgment on how others will react without even giving them a chance. I know it's scary (oh my, is it EVER!) but sometimes healing takes a leap of faith... . Do you think you might be able to reach out at see what's really there, not just what the fear in your mind is telling you might be there?
Logged
sheepdog
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 679


« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2013, 12:03:54 PM »

... . My therapist has said that if BPD wasn't so very manipulative and if he wasn't mentally ill and was just another guy that I would not have engaged.

I think a religious figure is just going to think that anything I say is an excuse.

sheepdog, that sounds like your own fear and judgement speaking... . not the response I would expect you to get.

Especially since you have personally not just acknowledged that you did something wrong... . you have tried to tear your own soul to shreds over it!

 Keep looking for how you can forgive yourself. You are worth it.

Grey Kitty - what you said about tearing my soul to shreds caught my breath.  I have.  I do.  I can not find peace.  I can't get forgiveness from myself. 

I used to be so grateful about everything.  Felt so blessed to be alive.  So much energy and loved every day - finding the goodness in each.

Now... .

Whether or not you ever hear from exBPD again, it sounds like you are living in fear, like Grey Kitty mentioned.  Keep working on making peace with yourself and the fear will slowly subside.  I would likely advise against making any amends until you feel more at ease with yourself.  Otherwise, it will probably be hard to determine what your motives are, as fear distorts things.  If exBPD hasn't brought it up in 9 months, hopefully he won't bring it up at all.  One day at a time.  Hang in there!   

I understand so much what you are saying.  But marriage is supposed to be about truth.  And every day I am being untruthful.

But I see the other side, too.

I am stuck on - everything.  My husband is a photographer and when BPD moved in to his new place, we blew up one of my husband's photos and gave it to him.  Why did I do that?  It gives me so much anger that I did that.  What the hell is wrong with me?  And it gives me SO much anger that that beautiful, innocent photo is hanging in BPDs apartment.  I freaking hate it.

What if you spoke to a religious figure and asked him/her what they thought re telling your husband? Perhaps the conversation would give you more clarity re what you want/need to do? It can't hurt and it is a confidential conversation, so it is a safe place to work some of this out. Maybe worth a shot?

Hi arabella, yes that is what I would like to do.  I just don't know what to say... . who would believe a BPD and all the stuff that goes along with that and a raging codependent and all the stuff that goes along with that.

My therapist has said that if BPD wasn't so very manipulative and if he wasn't mentally ill and was just another guy that I would not have engaged.

I think a religious figure is just going to think that anything I say is an excuse.

Far be it for me to pass judgment on anyone but, Sheepdog, I don't think this is a healthy way to think. I understand that you have been very hurt in the past and that others have betrayed your trust - that is very difficult to get past. You seem to have a very ingrained lack of trust in everyone around you. That makes sense. You don't trust your husband to listen and forgive you. You don't even trust a religious figure to listen and give you advice. Sheep, you are not an island - you can't do all of this work alone. You are passing judgment on how others will react without even giving them a chance. I know it's scary (oh my, is it EVER!) but sometimes healing takes a leap of faith... .   Do you think you might be able to reach out at see what's really there, not just what the fear in your mind is telling you might be there?

arabella, you and the ones above made me cry.  I would give anything to be sheepdog again.  I miss her.

Can you tell me what you meant by Do you think you might be able to reach out at see what's really there, not just what the fear in your mind is telling you might be there? ?

You said I seem to have a very ingrained lack of trust.  Wow.  That gave me pause.  Because I do.  How did you know? 

And now, it's worse.  I question everyone.  I do not trust myself.
Logged
Grey Kitty
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2013, 11:09:57 PM »

  I wasn't trying to make you cry. Now that I think about it, you are nearly making me cry. It just seems so painful what you are going through now, I can hardly imagine.

Maybe you need to cry. Grieve for sheepdog's innocence.

 GK
Logged
lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: widowed
Posts: 7766


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2013, 10:28:02 PM »

Staff only


This thread has passed the 4 page limit and has been continued here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=206797.0
Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
Amethyste
Angie59
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
assumezero
At Bay
Avanzando
Baglady
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaintTheGoat
FaithHopeLove
FindingMe2011
Forgiveness
freespirit
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
hopeandchoices
I Am Redeemed
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Jonthan
Katrinalove
Kwamina
l8kgrl
LLgreen
Longterm
lorymac
lovenature
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Meridius
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
needPeace
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
once removed
Only Human
otherlife
palynne
PeacefulMom
Pedro
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
Sad4Her
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SBBayArea
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Silverhope
Skip
songbirdtwo
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
townhouse
truthbeknown
turtleengine501
Ventak
vinnie77
Violet00
wavewatcher
wendydarling
WhatJustHappened?
Whichwayisup
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zachira
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!