Furious

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm almost at a loss for words. I'm so hurt and angry I almost feel numb right now.

I know I've still been making mistakes in my communication with him, but that does NOT excuse what he just did. I just need to get this off my chest right now, but I won't go into too many details to keep it as short as possible.

Tonight, leaving out all the rigamarole that lead up to it, he texted me about how he has had sex with two women in the last two months (women I knew he was hanging out with, but I trusted him when he said he wasn't getting involved that way). One of the women was in REHAB with him for HEROIN addiction. She used needles with other people. She was raped by multiple people while passed out on drugs. She could have HIV, very easily. This would all be hard enough on it's own if he hadn't also been sexual with ME since then. The other woman is also in rehab with him.

Now, it's possible he made that up just to eff with me, but every other time he's told me he has slept with someone it's turned out to be true. Even if he did make it up, I'm so sick to death of mind games and so hurt that he would want to hurt me like that. If he didn't make it up... .   I don't even know. He is now texting me saying he hates me, I don't deserve him, and that he needs to know what drugs I'm on because he's spent enough time with addicts in rehab and it's obvious I'm on one, and also that my cognitive abilities are lacking relatively speaking. I don't think I've ever felt this betrayed, hurt, or full of rage. That he would put me at risk to get a seriously life threatening disease... .   And yet there is a part of me which still loves him and cares about him, and I feel like a sick sick little puppy. I'm at a loss, and doing my best not to feel utterly broken, or to utterly feel like breaking something. What is wrong with me?  :'(

[Tigerabbit]

I'm almost at a loss for words. I'm so hurt and angry I almost feel numb right now.

I know I've still been making mistakes in my communication with him, but that does NOT excuse what he just did. I just need to get this off my chest right now, but I won't go into too many details to keep it as short as possible.

Tonight, leaving out all the rigamarole that lead up to it, he texted me about how he has had sex with two women in the last two months (women I knew he was hanging out with, but I trusted him when he said he wasn't getting involved that way). One of the women was in REHAB with him for HEROIN addiction. She used needles with other people. She was raped by multiple people while passed out on drugs. She could have HIV, very easily. This would all be hard enough on it's own if he hadn't also been sexual with ME since then. The other woman is also in rehab with him.

Now, it's possible he made that up just to eff with me, but every other time he's told me he has slept with someone it's turned out to be true. Even if he did make it up, I'm so sick to death of mind games and so hurt that he would want to hurt me like that. If he didn't make it up... .   I don't even know. He is now texting me saying he hates me, I don't deserve him, and that he needs to know what drugs I'm on because he's spent enough time with addicts in rehab and it's obvious I'm on one, and also that my cognitive abilities are lacking relatively speaking. I don't think I've ever felt this betrayed, hurt, or full of rage. That he would put me at risk to get a seriously life threatening disease... .   And yet there is a part of me which still loves him and cares about him, and I feel like a sick sick little puppy. I'm at a loss, and doing my best not to feel utterly broken, or to utterly feel like breaking something. What is wrong with me?  :'(

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Blazing Star]

I'm at a loss, and doing my best not to feel utterly broken, or to utterly feel like breaking something. What is wrong with me?  :'(

Oh honey   Be easy on yourself.

Totally normal to feel so angry and lost and still loving too.

Don't repress these feelings, let them out! Your feelings are your power.

I am going to suggest that you make yourself a safe place right now, maybe make a nest in your bed. Or take a warm shower or bath, and just let the feelings flow.

Allow yourself to feel utterly broken, really feel it to the depths, and then allow yourself to feel like breaking something, and do so (wrap glass jars in strong plastic bags, seal them, and throw them at the wall - all the satisfaction of breaking something without the mess to clean up!)

Journal if it helps.

Then go and do something physical to shake it off. Dance to loud music/your ipod. Run. Walk in nature.

Then climb into your nest and have your nurturing tool kit handy - a hot drink, some nice handcream that you mindfully rub into your hands and feet, some nail polish, a great book or magazine you enjoy, a feelgood dvd - and nurture yourself.

Use this to get in touch with your feelings and to reclaim some of your power back!

You are worth it.

Love Blazing Star

[hithere]

What is wrong with me?

Are you in therapy?  If he is having sex with drug addicts and you are having unprotected sex with him then that is pretty serious and I think you need to look into yourself on why you would participate in such risky behavior.

good luck

[briefcase]

This is frightening stuff tigerabbit.   

I hope you go to the doctor and get tested for STDs.  I also hope your therapist is helping you with your problems in this relationship - and they are serious problems.  It's not exageration to say that your life is at stake here.

Have you developed a safety plan with your therapist? 

Sometimes we have to ask ourselves some hard questions in these relationships.  Is this relationship worth risking your life for?

   

[Tigerabbit]

Blazing Star - 

Thank you so much for that, I needed to hear it. Those are ALL things that help me and that I enjoy. I do need some time to process and take care of myself. I love the idea of putting glass in a plastic bag, that's brilliant!

Are you in therapy?  If he is having sex with drug addicts and you are having unprotected sex with him then that is pretty serious and I think you need to look into yourself on why you would participate in such risky behavior.

good luck

I am in therapy. I didn't know he was having sex with drug addicts when I engaged in sexual contact with him. I wouldn't knowingly participate in that, especially knowing he was potentially at such a high risk. Thank you for the well wishes!

This is frightening stuff tigerabbit.   

I hope you go to the doctor and get tested for STDs.  I also hope your therapist is helping you with your problems in this relationship - and they are serious problems.  It's not exageration to say that your life is at stake here.

Have you developed a safety plan with your therapist? 

Sometimes we have to ask ourselves some hard questions in these relationships.  Is this relationship worth risking your life for?

   

 Thank you for your concern and input.

First, to this, an update. He texted me later and said he really didn't have sex with either of them and that he was sorry for saying that (I actually do believe the he is probably telling the truth about this, but I can't be 100% sure). That said, I am still DEFINITELY going to get tested. My therapist is helping me, and I'm still attending CoDA meetings and trying to find a sponsor to do the steps with. I don't yet have a solid safety plan, which is something I know I need to put into effect.

I'm for the first time starting to really feel like this relationship might not be worth fighting for. I guess I don't rule out that far down the road if both of us have done some major healing and growth that we might reunite, but I'm not going to count on it either. I know I'm making progress, too, because in the past I was not ok with the prospect of not being in a relationship and would immediately be searching for a "rebound". Right now, I don't WANT another relationship until I'm ready, which I know I'm not. I have too much damage not only from this relationship but from my life preceding it that I need to work through. I need to get myself right.

[GreenMango]

Tigerabbit sometimes things get to a point where it's a gnarly wake up call.   .  I'd say many of us have been at the point where we had to reassess things after a boundary violation like you've mentioned. 

First, to this, an update. He texted me later and said he really didn't have sex with either of them and that he was sorry for saying that (I actually do believe the he is probably telling the truth about this, but I can't be 100% sure).

Apologies are interesting things.  There are several parts to apologies - we can often get caught up in the words "I'm sorry".  In The Five Languages of Apology the author mentions five parts to an apology:

Expressing regret

Accepting responsibility

Making restitution

Genuinely repenting

Requesting forgiveness

Is the "I'm Sorry" going to be enough?  Are these type of apologies typical for him?

At this point whether he did or didn't isn't really the point.  It's bad either way.  If he did, he put you at serious risk for a life threatening disease.  If he didn't, he decided to try and manipulate your emotions in a pretty horrific way.  Either way it's an awful place to be in and fair to say his behavior at the very least is extremely questionable and destructive.  It's okay to question if this is working for you. 

Have you told your therapist about any of this?  What did she think?

Please take care of you first.  None of us can tell you to stay or leave - it does seem like a good time to do an inventory of the relationship considering all the factors at play, including the domestic violence, the addiction issues, etc - so you can see if it is worth it for you.  Here is a link to some resources that may help you make a decision: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.msg1099710#msg1099710.  You can post about working through the ":)ecision Making Guide" on the undecided board if you would like.

I just found out I was accepted into one of the universities I applied to... .  

   This is a huge deal.   What's going on with this? 

[Tigerabbit]

GreenMango - 

Thank you for your support and guidance. I'm so thankful for these forums and all those who share on here.

Expressing regret

Accepting responsibility

Making restitution

Genuinely repenting

Requesting forgiveness

Is the "I'm Sorry" going to be enough?  Are these type of apologies typical for him?

Yes they are typical, but he also often apologies with all or most of the elements you listed. He has expressed many times that he hopes I can forgive him someday. I feel like things aren't at a stage where I can make a firm decision yet, as he has been getting clean of his substances (though he relapsed with alcohol last night after another issue arose between us) and will be going through some difficult transitions with it for awhile. I'm trying to find the strength to truly separate myself from him while he is going through his recovery process, as it is so easy for me to trigger him for a plethora of reasons, not to mention the damage that I sustain through it all. He needs the space just as much as I do, but we are both so deeply codependent that we have a hell of a time not being around each other.

At this point whether he did or didn't isn't really the point.  It's bad either way. 

Exactly. This is what I'm really sick of. The manipulations and mind games (not saying I've never been manipulative, but I've never used being intentionally hurtful and belittling as a control mechanism). He always feels terrible later for the things he says and does to hurt people, and it's part of his self-destructiveness. It gives him a reason to beat himself down and feel worthless.

Have you told your therapist about any of this?  What did she think?

I haven't had the chance to talk to her about it yet. I had to skip a week due to finances, so I'll be talking to her next week.

I just found out I was accepted into one of the universities I applied to... .  

   This is a huge deal.   What's going on with this? 

I'm still waiting to hear back from two other universities at the end of this month which are both preferred over the one I was accepted to already. I'll be going to this one if I'm declined at those. Exciting and highly stressful at the same time!

[Tigerabbit]

And now I just found out that he was kicked out of rehab for relapsing last night and struggling with blaming myself... .   he really needed to be there. So frustrating to feel that I was instrumental in that... .   and he is insinuating I'm to blame, too. I don't make his choices for him... .     :'(

[GreenMango]

It's a good idea to take the BPD out of the equation for now.  The biggest looming issue is the addictions, not saying BPD isn't a part of this.  Without sobriety he can't attend to the emotional issues at play, its a way to cope and self medicate.

Can you explain why you think this is partially your fault or instrumental in his relapse/getting kicked out?

[Tigerabbit]

Well... .   I attended an N/A meeting with him last night. It was a really triggering experience for me as well, and there was a paper that we happened to sit by that was to be read. He isn't comfortable reading in front of people and asked if I would read it. I said yes, no problem. I didn't know when it was supposed to be read, and at the end of the meeting everyone got up and I thought they were leaving. I was already slightly emotionally triggered, and was looking down at my phone and didn't realize everyone was getting in a circle. He grabbed the sheet off the table, where he had put it earlier, and I looked up and he went to hand it to me and I was sort of confused because I thought people were leaving. He in some kind of panic just started reading, and by the time I realized what was happening it was too late for me to take it from him. I felt extremely embarrassed and terrible for letting him down, and also very fearful because I knew he was going to be really upset when we left. As we were walking to his car, he kept repeating "that wasn't ok, I can't do that. I told you I couldn't do that, " and so forth. He questioned how I could be so unaware and expressed how he sounded like an idiot etc. etc. I tried my best to comfort him, but in my emotional distress and panic I failed pretty miserably. When he dropped me off at my car, I knew things were going to keep escalating so I started to leave, and he said "if you leave me like this I'm going to drink." I told him, possibly in too harsh a tone, that that was his choice. He glared at me, shouted something I couldn't make out and left, and when I got home I thought I could try to do a little better to validate him through text messages. Anyway, he ended up drinking. What's really sad about it is he was advised by a couple of his counselors to be honest during group about it, that they would plug for him to stay, and when he came clean they told him he wouldn't be allowed to attend anymore. I've been told that he was "shopping" for a trigger. I don't know. I'm not really clear on how big my part in this was. I know I don't make his choices, but I know I could have caused or played a part in triggering his desire to drink.

I really just feel distraught. I'm hurting for him, I'm scared that our chances of working things out have gone out the window, I'm scared that he's not going to keep fighting to get his life on track. I'm learning that I have no control over him (or anyone else), but I still have this sense of responsibility that I'm trying to fight. I know it's not black and white. I know I played a part, regardless of what his choices are or were in the end. While he expressed frustration towards me, he also expressed that he understands and that it's not my fault. I think he is struggling with wanting to blame me and knowing that ultimately he makes his own choices. I was also told that I'm not helping him by taking on the guilt. This makes sense, as that allows him to easily shirk responsibility for his actions. Ah, codependency. It's like a nasty weed whose roots extend into the deepest corners of my being.

[GreenMango]

I hesitate to use the word should here yet I'm going to.


You shouldn't be going to his NA meetings with him and reading his stuff for him.

You should be going to Alanon & CODA when he goes to his meetings if you want any future with him.  Work that "nasty weed" you were talking about.


It's the enabling trap.  Theres a difference between supportive and enabling.  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95263.0

When we enable someone it's a double edged sword.  It makes us feel essential/needed/worthy and it also allows the other person a "get out of jail free" card.  It shifts responsibility from them to you.  If it's someone else's job then when it fails it can be someone else's fault - see how that works?  It also feeds the dysfunction.

Changing your role will be tough too.  Most likely he's not going to respond well either.  Addicts love a good codependent enabler.  

Tigerabbit, sweet girl, he's a big boy.  He needs to put his big boy pants on - it's time, but he can't if don't let him.

Have you given some thought to regular CODA and Alanon meetings?  Especially Al-anon - dealing with a person with a substance abuse problem is no joke.  

Also it's time to consider what your boundaries are in this relationship.  They are essential - if we don't have a set of principles we live by and boundaries for ourselves it's a great way to let enormous amounts of pain, suffering, and turmoil into our lives.  What are some of your boundaries?

[Tigerabbit]

You shouldn't be going to his NA meetings with him and reading his stuff for him.

I realize this now and completely agree. I feel like a fool for going with him in the first place. *facepalm*

Tigerabbit, sweet girl, he's a big boy.  He needs to put his big boy pants on - it's time, but he can't if don't let him.

I realize this, too, and this is partially why I feel so responsible. I recognize that my codependency has been such a hindrance to his growth. I've achieved exactly the opposite of what I've ever wanted, which is for him to be healthy, happy and ok. I'm struggling with whether or not I'm able to stop enabling while being in contact with him.

Have you given some thought to regular CODA and Alanon meetings?  Especially Al-anon - dealing with a person with a substance abuse problem is no joke.  

I have been attending regular CoDA meetings for a couple months or so now. I'm trying to find a sponsor. I haven't been to any Alanon meetings. I thought those were just geared toward alcoholics.

What are some of your boundaries?

Almost none to speak of. This is one of the biggest areas, if not the biggest, that I need to work on. Not that I've never exercised boundaries and left after reaching whatever my limit was at that time, but they are very inconsistent and I have a hard time following through. Fear has played a huge role in this for me, though I've recently been becoming less afraid.

Also, thank you for providing that link. I know all of that stuff, but it's something I need pretty regular reminders of, and it's always helpful to hear it phrased different ways. 

[GreenMango]

Tigerabbit I've done the *facepalm* too.  Yeah you being an enabler didn't help, but being an enabler didn't cause him to pick up whatever drug and put it in his body.  He did that all on his own - and if he tells you different it's BS. 

Alanon is geared for people around any kind of addict... .   same program principles and it dovetails well with CODA. 

You are among thousands of members here, myself included, who needed a hard lesson on boundaries.  Our partners or ex partners weren't the only ones that needed to hit bottom - we need to hit bottom (or a limit) too. 

Here is a great book to start exploring this area in: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=59097.0

We have some really great books to help learn. They can help to raise our self esteem, teach us some skills and emotional maturity.  Take advantage of these.

[Tigerabbit]

I think my mom might have that book. I'll have to ask her if I can borrow it.

I can't help but wonder what it means about me that my "bottom", or however close to it I am, is so closely tied to how my problems are hindering his progress. That sounds codependent in itself.

[GreenMango]

Bottom is that pivotal moment when we realize whatever we were doing before isn't working for us and doing the same thing looking for different results isn't going to happen.  It's the reckoning.  It's when a person hits their limit, when someone says enough is enough and starts to do things that change that.

It may have taken this person to show you your bottom... .   to allow yourself to go to uncharted lows.

 

[Rockylove]

I know I'm making progress, too, because in the past I was not ok with the prospect of not being in a relationship and would immediately be searching for a "rebound". Right now, I don't WANT another relationship until I'm ready, which I know I'm not. I have too much damage not only from this relationship but from my life preceding it that I need to work through. I need to get myself right.

First and foremost    I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this.  I hope for your sake, that he was bs-ing about having had sex with those women.  Good to know that you're going to be tested anyway... .   just in case.



YAY!  Doesn't it feel good to know that your efforts are putting you on a positive path?  Bask in your accomplishment!  I know that hurt may have influenced your decision, but it is a positive step in a direction you are choosing. 

[Tigerabbit]

Rockylove -

 and thank you. It's really good for me to hear reinforcements for when I'm making healthy progress, as I have a tendency to backslide a lot. I just hope so much that both he and I can come out of this as better individuals in the end. I will always care very deeply about him, but I'm trying to learn not to at my (and his) expense. His getting kicked from rehab is sort of a wake-up call for me. I just hope he doesn't spiral downward at this point. He told me "I'm going to relapse. That's how it works." It's as if he wants to. Or at least his addiction wants to and it's working very hard to beat him. *sigh* It's not in my control, but I have to recognize the influence that I do have and make my choices around that.

 to all of you for your caring and support!

[GreenMango]

Keep doing those healthy things for you . It's hard sometimes.

We would be happy to explore the boundary development too in this thread.

[Blazing Star]

It sounds like you are able to step back sometimes and to realise that things are out of your control is huge! And liberating! Yay you! Keep it up.

Love Blazing Star

[Tigerabbit]

We would be happy to explore the boundary development too in this thread.

That sounds great!

Yay you! Keep it up.

Thank you! I try. I guess sometimes is better than never!

[lena7]

I've known my pBPD for five years, and in my experience, no, it looks like he's never going to be happy.

A common denominator to all his problems is "I need... .   " And whenever he gets what he "needs" it's not enough. Along comes another complaint, and it's as if it will always be that way.

After 5 years of observation, added to the fact that he doesn't want to get any help, I'm emotionally and psychologically exhausted. If I could get back in time 5 years, I would stay away from him no doubt!