craziness post divorce/no custody order

[Matt]

Some attorneys will give a free initial consultation, or maybe just charge for a half hour of their time.

If you have some good questions prepared you can probably learn a lot in half an hour.  Maybe talk to a number of attorneys, on the phone or briefly in person, and see what you can learn.

[ForeverDad]

I guess the problem here is that we've heard many members state how their cases started, progress and ended.  Some states have a waiting or "cooling off" period before you can file for divorce.  Most, but not all, have No Fault divorces, at least to a certain extent.  Each state has slightly different policies on spousal support vs length of marriage.  And the list goes on.  But usually within few weeks or a month or two the courts will set a parenting schedule, especially once the parents have separated and are living separately.  That's why we suggest you double check, it's hard for us to accept that it's so hard to get a parenting schedule ordered now that you're living apart, and we've been around the block, so to speak, more than once.  Not saying that your lawyer isn't proactive enough, but it's okay to double check.

Another idea, over the years I've been in family court many times.  The staff are helpful to an extent, they're quickly tell me they can't give legal advice.  However, they may be able to tell you how to contact the local Bar Association and what other ways are available for you to get a schedule ordered sooner... .   and then add that it's something your lawyer should handle.

We're only peer support.  Even if there's nothing more to be done than what's already set up by your lawyer, that's fine, we're here to help you get through the next several stressful weeks or months.

Edit:  I filed for divorce because my ex was blocking all contact with my son.  It took me a few weeks to get a local lawyer, get papers in order and to file.  Then I had to wait 7 weeks for that first divorce hearing.  They told me there was no way to do it sooner than scheduled.  Once I was in court and got the same magistrate I had several months before, I could understand why they said that, the magistrate wasn't outraged at all that I had been blocked by then for 3 months.  All he said was , "Well, Mr. FD will get to start seeing his son again this weekend, he'll get alternate weekend and an evening in between.  If there had been outrage, I'd like to think I would have gotten immediate contact and make-up time as well.  But I didn't.  In fact, ex asked to delay our reunion by more than a day and the magistrate granted the delay as she asked, so my weekend reunion was shortened by a day.  I was stunned, yet it didn't phase my court.

So what I want to add is that your court may or may not react to the problems as you wish.

[nowheretogo]

FD,

I appreciate what you are saying.  I am looking into consulting at least one other attorney today. 

Will keep you posted.

Thanks,

nwtg

[GaGrl]

All my positive energy being sent your way... .  

[nowheretogo]

Custody conciliation is this morning at 10 am.  Either ex has a new attorney or is going alone, not sure which.    He is fixated on getting more stuff out of the home, saying he will file suit and that I "violated the agreement".  He got everything from the list of things he asked for with the marital settlement agreement, with the exception of "1/2 of the outdoor furniture".  Included in that list was every "big ticket item" we had, including a 2000 Lincoln Navigator that I bought about 6 months ago for 10K (but titled in his name because he was at the auction to purchase it with my money while I was at work), a riding lawn mower, a 60 inch flat screen tv, new grill, etc.  also took SEVERAL things not on the list including all of the things I have purchased in the last couple of years to maintain the home (shop vac, pressure washer, leaf blower, gas powered pump, weed wacker, new power drill, tv stand, camera, etc).  He sold everything out of our shed to include ladder wheel barrow, shovels, rakes, and all tools.   He has been texting me about problems that his car has (was his car before marriage, but I drove for the past few years because he sold my car before we even got married).  Am I the only one disgusted by all of this?

I am going to offer the every other Fri-Sun and wed. night dinners... .  that's it.  I know he'll probably get more when it's done, but I want the court to award it to him after they have seen and heard all of the facts.  I am not going to just give him what he wants.  The down side to this is that we will now have to go through evaluations (psych evals, home studies, etc) before there is an actual custody hearing, which will drag out teh amount of time that there is no order and that he is able to control the custody schedule becasue he has no job.

He is sticking to nothing but 50/50 because that is his chance for sustainable income without working via child support from me.

L says no judge will give it to him.

[GaGrl]

When my DH filed for divorce, he and the uNPD/BPD we call The Dark Princess had been separated for 14 years.  Even then, she was determined to make the divorce as difficult and as advantageous to her as possible.  Much of this was because DH finally filed because we had reconnected (knew each other as teens), and we wanted to marry -- if I had not been the reason, she might have been OK with a divorce, as she had offered several times.

The demands were ridiculous, and she could not accept that she wasn't in a position to demand anything (several years after leaving DH, her Asian friend introduced her to the business of Asian massage parlors, and TDP realized she could make a lot of money doing what she had been doing for years for free.  Basically, TDP turned into a prostitute.

All this to say... .  

What we learned during the divorce negotiations is that you have to find that one "button" to push that is going to get the PD past the stalling and demands.  Problem is... .  how do you discover what that button is?  With TDP, it was DH finally saying, "Well, it looks like we can't agree on these final items.  I'll tell my lawyer to schedule a court date."  And suddenly, TDP was willing to sign the settlement agreement as DH had drawn it up.  With her, the button was appearing in court and having to answer questions about her illegal business front.

So isn't there an issue with your ex's former probation jofficer ob that he doesn't want exposed?

[catnap]

It is disgusting the amount of entitlement he is exhibiting.  Again, Gagirl has an excellent idea. . .he does have the hot button issue of his work history. 

Please let us know how the custody conciliation went. 

[KateCat]

So isn't there an issue with your ex's former probation jofficer ob that he doesn't want exposed?

Wouldn't this particular type of former employer cover its liability by documentation of everything that happened? Could you ask your attorney if this type of information can be subpoenaed in a custody evaluation?

The murky circumstances of the firing, and the on-going alcoholism, could be the "big guns" in your situation. If nothing else, your ex can't really be excited about having outsiders monitor his drinking or delve into the possibility of past coercive sexual solicitation activities?

What does your ex have to say about a custody evaluation? He's got some chutzpah if he's saying, "Bring it on!" and thinking that you really will bring it on.

[KateCat]

Oh, and big congratulations on getting a divorce and getting him to move out. That took courage. 

[livednlearned]

I am going to offer the every other Fri-Sun and wed. night dinners... .  that's it.  I know he'll probably get more when it's done, but I want the court to award it to him after they have seen and heard all of the facts.  I am not going to just give him what he wants. 

The strong you, the one that has been there all along, is really showing here 

[catnap]

  nwtg

How are you doing? 

[livednlearned]

 nwtg

How are you doing? 

I want to know too! How are you?

[nowheretogo]

Lnl and catnap,

It means a lot to me that you are checking up on me!

I am doing ok... . I've just been soo busy and preoccupied with everything.

Let's see, an update is in order.

The custody conciliation was held May 8th.  Amazingly, we walked out with a temporary agreement that is now a temporary order.  It is pretty much a 2/3 to 1/3 split, with me getting the 2/3.  I also now have both D3 and S7 on the same weekends.  Ex  gets D3 every other Fri-Sun night, Thursday overnight after his weekend, and Tuesday overnight after mine.  It is still way too much, but I am better off having an order in place until the custody hearing will take place... . probably late August or September.

The night of the conciliation, ex first texted me saying the weekends were wrong and I better talk with my attorney tomorrow.  I checked and it looked ok to me.  He then got on the phone with me and started saying "I still love you, I am always going to love you, it doesn't have to be this way, never had to be this way, I can't do those weekends, that's not what I said", etc.  He was sounding crazy as usual.  I told him to work it out with the attorneys.  He now says that I am "not being amicable" as he has said many times before, whenever I don't agree to whatever he wants.  He was saying that he said that he was only going to agree to those weekends if we agreed to 50/50 custody that day... . well, 4 out of 5 people in the room would not agree with that.  He was acting angry and offensive and defensive at the conciliation, and sounding crazy.  We thought for a minute that we might make the agreement into a permanent order, but he pushed for the custody hearing, saying that only 50/50 custody is best for D3.  He also wrote me another crazy email maybe a little more than a week ago, saying how we should just start agreeing now, we don't have to go through the courts, and he is only asking for 4 more nights/month (50/50).  I ignored it.

So now we have a pretrial conference on Thursday, June 6th, at 1030 am.  We had to fill out parenting plans and share with each other this past Fri.  We basically wrote what we said we wanted at the conciliation.  I put for primary physical and legal custody, because why should I have to get his approval on everything when I've made the decisions all along, and he is always antagonistic per his personality.  He won't have her best interest in mind, but rather, his.  ie, if considering extra-curricular activities, he will worry about having to put off drinking until after transporting her and about more gas money.  I also asked for him to get every other Fri and Sat overnight and every Wed. evening from 3pm-7pm.  I know it sounds harsh, but he is not a good influence on any child, and he is the worst influence on anyone who lives with him, because that is when he is truly himself... . I know you all know what I mean by this!  I attached S7's custody schedule, and asked for holidays to be as close to matching as possible.  Ex is asking for 50/50 custody, shared legal.

L says that the judge will more than likely be ordering evaluations at the pretrial conference.  Of course since ex is refusing, crying poor, after I just had to give him $65K for the divorce settlement, so they will make me pay, and give me the chance to try to have the courts split the cost when it is through.  I think the evaluations are possibly paramount to my success at the custody hearing.  In addition, L thinks that it is good that ex will have to abide by the current temporary order for months until then.

He has sold the Lincoln Navigator, and D3 says he has a motorcycle now.  I am always thinking about all of the selfish, mean, and nasty things he has done/said, and it upsets me, but keeps me on the right path.  He will never suck me back in now.

Again, thank you so much for continuing to support me and think about me.  I have been thinking about all of you, too, and am so glad to finally be back in touch!

[livednlearned]

I'm pretty sure you and I married the same guy. 

It sounds to me like you did really well with the temporary order.  Any chance your ex is already undercutting his time with D3?

I put for primary physical and legal custody, because why should I have to get his approval on everything when I've made the decisions all along, and he is always antagonistic per his personality.  He won't have her best interest in mind, but rather, his.  ie, if considering extra-curricular activities, he will worry about having to put off drinking until after transporting her and about more gas money.  I also asked for him to get every other Fri and Sat overnight and every Wed. evening from 3pm-7pm.  I know it sounds harsh, but he is not a good influence on any child, and he is the worst influence on anyone who lives with him, because that is when he is truly himself... . I know you all know what I mean by this!  I attached S7's custody schedule, and asked for holidays to be as close to matching as possible.  Ex is asking for 50/50 custody, shared legal.

Stick to your guns on this issue. You're probably headed to trial, is my guess. Pre-trial for me was just moving a pawn two spaces forward. And now that there is an order in place, your ex is going to demonstrate in spectacular ways what you already know to be true: he's not stable. It bugged me to no end how slow the process works, but I can't deny that the extra time made it so that N/BPDx's nutty behavior really showed.

I can totally imagine how your ex's weird reasoning sounded crazy to everyone else. My ex did the same thing, explaining his interpretation of the order to the judge and the court, despite how desperately flawed the logic was.

And one more thing -- you sound really good. You sound strong and grounded 

I knew you would 

[Matt]

One strategy might be to go slow, and let the temporary orders be in place for as long as possible before things become final.

The reason is to let the other party experience some time with the kids, alone, and see if he really wants more;  it may be that after a few months his interest will cool and he'll be fine with 1/3 or even less.

Also, over a few months, his performance might not be so good - he might show that he's not capable of parenting alone.  That will work in your favor.

If you can have a thorough evaluation that will probably be good - psych evals for both parents, and drug/alcohol screening.  Get as much data as possible.

Usually, where I live, the most common solution is shared legal custody, but one parent might get most of the time with the kids - maybe every-other-weekend for the less-involved and less-healthy parent.  Be prepared for that - joint legal might not be your preference but it may not be worth fighting.

[ForeverDad]

He switched from a car to a motorcycle?  How is he transporting D3?  I don't believe he can drive her anywhere on a motorcycle.  How will he get her to exchanges, appointments, daycare, or anywhere else?

Yes, when he claims poverty, your position is that he is fully capable of working but you shouldn't be penalized for him being a lazy bum.  (Okay, your lawyer may choose less blunt words.)  And keep reminding the court that he just received generous megabucks in a settlement for a very short marriage and so he can afford to pay for his share of court costs, evaluation costs, etc.

Remember, if the lawyers and judge resist you having sole custody, at least try to get tie-breaker or decision-making rights.  If they complain or argue that there's no need, then ask them how anything will ever get done in a timely way when you two don't agree on something.  Perhaps your tie-breaker right can be 'balanced' by his right to refer it (afterward) to a mediator, parenting coordinator or even court.

Now that you have majority time confirmed in writing, never ever let that go.  No amount of guilting or whatever should be enough to gift that away.

[nowheretogo]

Thank you, my friends, for your replies!

yes, lnl, we may have done that (married the same guy).  your ex is an attorney, but mine was a probation officer, also involved with the legal system.  Thinks he knows everything with regards to that, but really far from it, not even having a degree.  We are definitely headed to trial, but won't be until at least mid August.  Having evaluations will probably drag it out even more.  So, yes, Matt, dragging it out may be a decent strategy at this point.  Right now, all of his friends and his son are willing to be there and help out when D3 is around, but I suspect that will grow old.  At some point, he and his son will have a falling out, and he won't be around either.  He is not a "fathery" sort of guy.

FD, he didn't switch to a motorcycle.  He still has his car.  Remember, he got both vehicles with the settlement, one to sell for cash (or trade in for a motorcycle?).  I will continue to bring up the fact that he should have more liquid cash than I do post settlement, and also that he always said that there is something wrong with me/I'm effed up in the head and should have help/evaluation.  I'll probably get stuck paying and never seeing his half even if it gets ordered, though.

I like your idea about the tie-breaker for sole legal custody.  My L has warned me that almost no one gets it and I realize that, but it IS the best thing for D3, so I'm going to try.

I will never "give" him any more time than he has now

[livednlearned]

I like your idea about the tie-breaker for sole legal custody.  My L has warned me that almost no one gets it and I realize that, but it IS the best thing for D3, so I'm going to try.

Ask your L if you can read the case law on that. Honestly, it took me a long time for my stressed out brain to understand the difference between "full custody" and "sole custody" and "sole physical custody" "joint physical custody" joint legal custody" "joint legal custody plus decision-making" blah blah blah. Then there was a parenting coordinator for a while, and that was kinda fuzzy too.

If your L is saying sole, full custody is not common, then that makes sense. But I doubt that sole legal custody is impossible to get. I thought maybe it was only important because my citizenship is in another country and I need it to travel home (without getting permission from N/BPDx). But if you want to get T for your child, or pick a better school, or make a major decision about medical treatment -- that's when sole legal really counts.

I've already seen N/BPDx mess with S11's opportunities simply out of hatred and spite for me. Sole legal custody matters in my case.

[Matt]

Where I live, shared legal custody is standard, even if one parent has the kids almost all the time.

For example, it's pretty common for one parent to have the kids "EOW" (every other weekend) and they spend the rest of the time with the parent who has primary residential custody.  But they both still have shared legal custody, so if one parent wants to make a big decision - religion, major medical, moving, education - they have to come to an agreement or get the court involved.

That's what I have, and I was concerned about it, but it hasn't been a problem.  Here's an example:

A few years ago I needed to move for work.  I applied to a charter school which is very good academically, and the kids got in.  Along the way, I told their mom about that, but I didn't actually ask her - just told her, "They were admitted to XYZ, which is a very good school."  She could have fought it, but it would have been obviously unwise to do that, so she let it go.

On the other hand, the decision to relocate, she did fight - also unwise, but it took a lot of time and money to resolve it.  But at least it was an issue big enough to be worth fighting over, and it's the only big fight we've had in 6 years - not too bad... .

[nowheretogo]

I guess it's like what you have where you are here,Matt.  Shared legal custody is pretty much the norm.  L basically said what I will wind up doing is what you have just described, ie, making the decisions and letting him take it to court if he so decides.  I told L that we will be in court all of the time, then.  Although I am glad to see that that has not been true for you, it is  hard to imagine that he wouldn't be obstructive because he would view any change I want to make as something I want to do to benefit myself, not D3, and therefore, he would want to prevent me from making said change. 

Like lnl said,

"I've already seen N/BPDx mess with S11's opportunities simply out of hatred and spite for me. Sole legal custody matters in my case." ( I still can't figure out how you'll paste quotes out of people's posts),

that is what I imagine happening fairly routinely with my ex.

Anyway, I'm still going to "try" for it.  I will work with what I get, but I won't get it if I don't try!

Lnl,  what examples can you give me of your ex trying to mess with your S11's opportunities?

[Matt]

You might be able to minimize the chaos by how you manage key issues.

For example, in choosing a school, you could write the other party, "The kids were accepted into ReallyGood School, which is a really good school.  Here's a link to their academic performance:  <link>.  They will start there August 30."  That gives him the information, so he can't say he didn't know, and theoretically he could challenge it, since he has joint legal custody.  But it doesn't invite a fight, and he would look like a jerk if he fights without any good reason.

If he picks fights anyway, and you have e-mails that document it, you can later go back to court - maybe each time he takes an issue in front of the court - and say, "Joint legal isn't working because Mr. Ex fights over stuff.  I am asking for sole legal, with the requirement that I keep Mr. Ex informed and consult him before making decisions."  Or "joint legal, with Ms. Togo having tie-breaker status, to minimize the need for court."

Make sure everything you do shows that you are coming up with practical solutions, not aiming for a fight.

[ForeverDad]

What your lawyer said never happens may have been about seeking sole custody.  Maybe joint custody with decision-making may be less of a hurdle to accomplish in court?  Here is a way to seek the best outcome possible in court.  You and your lawyer should start with the most favorable option, then work your way down the list.  Here's an example of an unhelpful court, probably all too typical:

You:   Due to the conflict, lack of agreement and continuing obstructions, I am asking for sole/full legal custody.

Court: No, the court doesn't see the need.

You:   Then I ask for joint custody with decision-making or tie-breaker status.

Court: No, the court doesn't see the need.

You:   Then I ask for joint custody with decision-making or tie-breaker status until it can be resolved by a mediator, parenting coordinator, GAL or the court, whichever is the appropriate resolution method.

Court: No, the court doesn't see the need.

You:   Then we'll be back, over and over again.

Court: No big deal.  We'll be here. (Yawn)

The point is that even if you get a No at first, then rethink what else to try and keep trying to see what works.

Fortunately, the courts are good at assigning a Residential Parent for School Purposes.  Supposedly it does nothing except give that parent the ability to resolve which schools the child attends simply by residence in that school district.  However, it is a subtle indicator of which parent has a slight edge over the other.  Even if your child isn't ready for school now, kids grow up fast, get that specified so it's one less thing to take back to court in a  couple years.

One final note... . Since your ex has other children and his historical pattern has been a not-very-involved parent, that's an indicator that at some point he may recede into the parenting background.  But not yet, not until he's exhausted his dreams of getting child support or more financial breadcrumbs.  So take heart, soon your divorce case will end with a final decree and your long term problems may not be as overwhelming as the experiences of some of the other parents here with extremely possessive ex-spouses.

[livednlearned]

I guess it's like what you have where you are here,Matt.  Shared legal custody is pretty much the norm.  L basically said what I will wind up doing is what you have just described, ie, making the decisions and letting him take it to court if he so decides.  I told L that we will be in court all of the time, then.  Although I am glad to see that that has not been true for you, it is  hard to imagine that he wouldn't be obstructive because he would view any change I want to make as something I want to do to benefit myself, not D3, and therefore, he would want to prevent me from making said change.

My L says that the classic abuser ex husband profile is someone who will fight harder on the legal custody, and be a little less severe with the physical custody because the former is about control and the latter is about hands-on work. Once the spotlight is off the "fight," you're probably right that your ex will start having excuses about actually doing the hands-on work with D3. Either that, or he will be neglectful with her while she's in his care.  :'(

I still can't figure out how you'll paste quotes out of people's posts),

You can either select the little quote button/link thingy in the upper right hand corner of the text bos, or highlight what you want to quote and then click that yellow box button under the red letter A (kinda underneath the "change color" box. It will put the whole thing in a quote box.

Lnl,  what examples can you give me of your ex trying to mess with your S11's opportunities?

There is an excellent social-emotional program for middle school kids. I felt strongly that some of S11's learning issues would disappear if he had a good team helping him work through the social-emotional stuff. Plus, he was diagnosed ADHD and gifted, but I suspect he's high-functioning dyslexic (he can read). I'm dyslexic, but it costs a lot of money to get the testing, and the outcome (a 504 plan to accommodate differentiated learning) is the same. The school I wanted S11 to attend has one of the best differentiated learning programs in our state, and there's a lot of project-based and inquiry-based learning that S11 excels at.

I had to include N/BPDx in the parent interview process because we shared legal custody. When we showed up at the parent interview for private school, N/BPDx went on a rant. The admissions counselor ended the session 15 minutes early because N/BPDx raised his voice at me and things because incredibly hostile. S11 never got into the program. 

Also, if you want to get a passport for D3 to travel out of the country, you'll need your ex's permission. If you want to get your D into therapy, you'll need his permission. He will probably treat decision-making as ANYTHING that requires a decision, and can try to sabotage you on many minor things -- that's what N/BPDx did for the first two years. But like Matt said, and my L reinforced, you can do a lot of things (most things) without needing his consent. Just go ahead and do what's best for D3. No judge will punish you if it's in her best interests.

But passports, traveling out of state, making a major decision about school or medical treatment -- the major things -- you won't be able to do anything unless you get his permission. And the chances of that are slim... .

Because D3 is so young, I think it's worth it to fight for it. Or at least don't agree to it, and leave the case open, and let time go by so he has plenty of opportunity to mess up. If you agree (and your L is probably going to pressure you to do that), then you have an extra layer of hassle to unpack. The judge will see that you thought it was ok at one point, and will want to know what major circumstances have made you change your mind. That's a harder legal argument to make.

[nowheretogo]

omg, it makes me so angry to know that ex will try to prevent therapy, passports, out of state travel, moving to good schools closer to my job, etc.  Because he will!  He wants me to be tied down.  He has already started by trying to have my custody schedule arranged so that I always have the kids on the weekends.  Not a huge deal to me, but pretty indicative of who he is.  It's not fair to D3 that she wouldn't be allowed to go see grandparents, friends, and the world, because he refuses to sign papers.  He is scared to fly, so he doesn't want her to fly.  He didn't want me to travel 300 yards around the corner with her to take her shopping when he lived with us! He doesn't want her to see her grandparents, because he doesn't like them.  I just can't stand this kind of person!  So, can I do these things without his consent *unless* he disagrees?  ie, buy tickets to fly to Hawaii and tell him we're going, and then have to go to court when he disagrees?  I am thinking more and more how important getting sole legal custody will be for D3.  Don't give up the ship!

[sanemom]

omg, it makes me so angry to know that ex will try to prevent therapy, passports, out of state travel, moving to good schools closer to my job, etc.  Because he will!  He wants me to be tied down.  He has already started by trying to have my custody schedule arranged so that I always have the kids on the weekends.  Not a huge deal to me, but pretty indicative of who he is.  It's not fair to D3 that she wouldn't be allowed to go see grandparents, friends, and the world, because he refuses to sign papers.  He is scared to fly, so he doesn't want her to fly.  He didn't want me to travel 300 yards around the corner with her to take her shopping when he lived with us! He doesn't want her to see her grandparents, because he doesn't like them.  I just can't stand this kind of person!  So, can I do these things without his consent *unless* he disagrees?  ie, buy tickets to fly to Hawaii and tell him we're going, and then have to go to court when he disagrees?  I am thinking more and more how important getting sole legal custody will be for D3.  Don't give up the ship!

Over here we have the option of "independent rights" where both parents can do their therapy with the kid, etc. without the other parent's consent.  Is that an option there?

[Matt]

Some of these issues sound very reasonable to bring up at this point.  "I think it will work better if I have sole legal (or tie-breaker) custody, so there won't be problems if it makes sense to put the kids into a good school closer to where I work;  or to take the kids to see their grandparents in another state;  etc.  With shared legal custody, he could block those reasonable things."

The court might still decide on shared legal custody, but include in the court order that you can take the kids out of state without his permission, or you can move closer to your work, etc.

Consider drafting language for each of those issues, so if that's how things go, you'll be prepared.  Sometimes courts find it easier to rubber-stamp language proposed by one of the parties than to draft the language themselves.

[Matt]

Over here we have the option of "independent rights" where both parents can do their therapy with the kid, etc. without the other parent's consent.  Is that an option there?

The way that worked in my case - before custody was settled, we had joint legal custody in the temporary orders.  I decided the kids were under a lot of stress - then 8 and 10 - and should see a counselor.  I consulted with their school counselor, who recommended a counselor in private practice, so I made an appointment - first I talked with the counselor myself, and then I started taking the kids to see her.

I didn't mention it to their mom, but I also didn't tell them not to tell her.  After a few months, the counselor asked if she could talk to their mom, and I gave her stbX's contact information.  Ultimately the court ruled that the kids should continue seeing the counselor, and the cost should be shared between the parents.  My wife's lawyer tried to use it as a negative that I had taken them to a counselor without their mom's permission, but the court ignored that - it was obviously in the kids' interest to see the counselor, and I didn't use the counselor as a weapon in the custody battle.

I think this is a good lesson:  Do what is best for the kids and it won't be held against you.

[livednlearned]

Consider drafting language for each of those issues, so if that's how things go, you'll be prepared.  Sometimes courts find it easier to rubber-stamp language proposed by one of the parties than to draft the language themselves.

Exactly. Put every item in there that you anticipate will be a problem. If your ex doesn't agree, then you go to trial and the judge makes the decision. You're likely to end up having the judge give you something better than what your ex will propose, especially if your request is reasonable. I know that isn't always the case, but it happened like that in mine and my ex and yours sound disordered in a similar way. If your ex agrees, then you wait a while for him to start messing with the order, and then you file motions for contempt and you go to court, and the judge gets pissed that your ex is disobeying an order that he agreed to.

For me, I eventually reached an awesome place of medium chill. While I don't like the expense and still get angry from time to time, for the most part, I look at it like a rash that won't go away, that I have to treat from time to time, and that if I take care of myself, eat well, get exercise, etc., can keep the rash in check.

[catnap]

So good to hear an update, and you sound very strong and grounded.   

[nowheretogo]

Thanks, catnap.

Had pretrial conference today.  Judge met with Ls only and I had the "priveledge" of sitting next to ex on the only bench outside of the courtroom and listening to him talk to me.  At least he was being "nice ex", but still saying things like "You're the one who is bringing us here/doing this; it doesn't have to be like this; I'm only asking for 4 more overnights (per month); we could just be amicable".   

According to L, Judge also thought I sounded strong and grounded    L said he was impressed by me, although I never met him. 

Outcome of today is that Judge ordered custody evaluations... . initial report to be completed in 45 days, final report in 3 mos.  Then, ex and I are supposed to "try to reach an agreement", and if not, a custody hearing will be scheduled.  L says I will do well with evaluations, and final outcome should be either same as current "temporary" schedule, or with changes in my benefit.

So, I guess it will now be time for me to start a new thread along the lines of what to expect/how to prepare for the evaluations and probable hearing.