Do they know they are manipulating?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My ex is also high functioning, and did indeed seem very normal a lot of the time. However, it seemed to me that when he was acting in manipulative ways, it was almost reflexive, or very practiced. Later, sometimes the following day, he could express some remore (I shouldn't have said that). He was able to see his behaviors in hindsight as needing to be changed.

[Blessed0329]

My ex is also high functioning, and did indeed seem very normal a lot of the time. However, it seemed to me that when he was acting in manipulative ways, it was almost reflexive, or very practiced. Later, sometimes the following day, he could express some remore (I shouldn't have said that). He was able to see his behaviors in hindsight as needing to be changed.

[Louise7777]

Fakename, I understood an illness or mental sickness is something you get affected but you can control through medication. While PDs are related to mood swings, and although there are meds its not in the same field ... .   When I read ur post I read more abt it and I guess I was wrong, seems they are the same thing, so Im confused. Maybe someone experienced can clarify.

But I stand by what I said earlier: they dont look for help cz they think they dont need it. The suicide threats and rages/ crying/ tears are just a way to manipulate. Dont forget they love drama and when there isnt any, they make sure they create some. Suicidal threats, I have heard many from a relative, it was her way to get attention and she was never really close to it (Ill throw myself from a window!)... .   Once u leave ur life behind and get there shes fine... .   Not to mention her kids (teenagers) are there, watching tv as nothing is happenng... .   Guess they have some PD of their own.

I dont mean all people do that, but in my experience its been like that. A rollercoaster! They drain you and cant leave u in peace. Its all abt them.

[paperlung]

Fakename, I understood an illness or mental sickness is something you get affected but you can control through medication. While PDs are related to mood swings, and although there are meds its not in the same field ... .   When I read ur post I read more abt it and I guess I was wrong, seems they are the same thing, so Im confused. Maybe someone experienced can clarify.

But I stand by what I said earlier: they dont look for help cz they think they dont need it. The suicide threats and rages/ crying/ tears are just a way to manipulate. Dont forget they love drama and when there isnt any, they make sure they create some. Suicidal threats, I have heard many from a relative, it was her way to get attention and she was never really close to it (Ill throw myself from a window!)... .   Once u leave ur life behind and get there shes fine... .   Not to mention her kids (teenagers) are there, watching tv as nothing is happenng... .   Guess they have some PD of their own.

I dont mean all people do that, but in my experience its been like that. A rollercoaster! They drain you and cant leave u in peace. Its all abt them.

I know what you mean by them creating drama if there is none. My relationship with my ex for the first 5 months was as peaceful as can be; we never had a single argument, she had her anxiety depression problems, though. She even told me one time how she wished we could get into a fight just so we could have makeup sex afterwards. She also told me to be mean to her and hit her one night. Told me she should go be with her fcked up ex again because she felt she could relate to him because he had issues and I didn't. I was this perfect, could do no wrong figure in her eyes. When she broke up with me out of the blue one night one of her reasons was because the relationship had gotten boring; she's never been used to stability. Of course no more than 10 hours later she is crying on the phone apologizing asking me to take her back, .

[Neverknow]

So do they know what they do and if they're manipulating someone?

Do they think that's what they have to do in order to get something?

Do they recognize the effects it has on others?

Also, do they first need someone with a good self esteem and then need to break it down so thy feel they have control over the person and the relationship?

Because of all this, will they not consider being with someone thu can't manipulate or someone who's self esteem doesn't break down?

I think they have done it for so long, that it is their default mechanism for getting what they want.  My ex BPD w used it constantly.  I would call her on it, and say, "You don't have to manipulate me to get what you want.  I love you.  If there is a way to give you what you want, I am happy to do it.  If there is not, trying to manipulate me into doing it won't make it happen."

It didn't matter how many times I said that, she would still pull that tool out of the toolbox first.  It's ingrained.