Hardest Symptom

[whereisthezen]

"She is wired different", mine too Hellokitty, perhaps a little crosswired at times!

My H has some understanding that he is emotional and hides himself from the world ( by mirroring people of dignity or other peoples morals) as I believe one side of him wants to be that, the otherside is in complete turmoil so much so he seeks instant gratification and approval from the way he dresses, who he socializes with, and financial status.

Once in a while I get a glimpse he understands or can control himself but that is not very often.  I think inconsistency or inability to dig deeper in himself is frustrating to me, however I am more focused on myself the last month.  I do believe he will continue his behavior his traits... .  So I've got to deal with me first now.

[KellyO]

I hated double-standards and raging, but hardest for me was projection. It took long time to get my head around it, and I noticed I did it too (like all people do sometimes), but he projects literally everything in me. It was like a heavy load in my shoulders that I couldn't get rid off. When later I realized how much he projected, I mean it was ridicilous, I begin to blame him from lying. For me it was lying. He blamed me for doing what he did, without having no clue if I did it or not. Often it was something he was shamed of in himself, and did not want to admit he had done something he had said he would never do. So he decided it is actually me who does stuff like that. This really drove me nuts.

Good part is, today I'm somewhat immune to projection. I notice if I project, and if someone projects their own crap to others, I notice it too, and it gives me information about that person.

[bruceli]

I know what you mean. I am always rethinking everything I say as I am afraid it will be taken the wrong way. Its crazy! I even had the hardest time finding a birthday card for him as I did not know if he could take a joke. Well I guess I will find out soon.

I can relate except it was mothersday this past sunday.  Took the whole family out to brunch the Sunday before mothersday to celebrate because my mother was going on vacation and would not be around on mothersday.  BPDw this past sunday night, mothersday, says... .  You did'nt do anything for me for mothersday.  I said remember brunch last Sunday?  Her reply... .  But I did'nt WANT to  go to that, the reason being that she was soo hung over from a party the night before, so that does'nt count... .  LOL

Wow!  I thoght I was the only one with the birthday card dilema :-)  And having to watch every word/ststement.

No, I had the dilemma too!

Last year I had the best birthdaycard ever: made it myself (she couldn't say I didn't put any effort in it), with pictures from her loved ones (she couldn't say I did it for me), with just kind words without any meaning.

Guess what her reaction was?

.

.

.

I have not got a birthdaycard from you... .    :'(

[Black Pearl]

for me the absolute hardest symptom has been the passive/aggression, it is an acid that just slowly eats into me.

My mother was an expert at this but I did not realize it until many years later, but my wife is so good I don't even realize what is happening until the argument she wanted is in full swing then the projection starts and what ever she is feeling are my emotions.  I hope to learn tools to work around this here.   

[careman]

To me I think it was

-push/pull and its more-of-the-same version breakup/makeup

-contradictions saying A then B then C doing D meaning E ( https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=187665.0;topicseen )

-self centeredness or 'un-we-ness'. I lacked the continuity and consistency of a 'we' feeling, and accompanying security of the r/s. Had that in episodes only.

There was also an 'on-the-brink' quality in the r/s not mentioned here that I felt; her beeing either in the r/s or out of it, but mostly balancing just right there perfectly in between, on the edge of being in/out - 'on-the-brink'. I felt oftentimes I had to 'win her minute by minute'. VERY stressful

yeah well... .  the craze of it all... .  rollercoaster... .  on-off... .  

/Careman

[Juliecelle]

Lying! It's the lying!

So much of this disorder revolves around lying! Gas-lighting, distortion campaigns, painting their victim(s) black and white, etc.

They lie to avoid shame.

They lie to avoid responsibility.

They lie to avoid reality.

They lie to receive attention.

They lie in order to appear as someone they are not.

They lie to make you appear as someone you are not.

Lies. So many lies.

[byasliver]

GREAT thread! For me, it's the verbal abuse no matter what BPD trait it comes from: projection, lack of empathy, black/white thinking, etc. When my uBPDh is hurting or feeling attacked he is going to make sure others around him feel 100 times worse than he does. He is beginning to recognize when his feelings are building and trying to self-sooth but hasn't recognized how he takes his feelings out on others, yet. With his heightened sensitivity, he can zero in on just what will sting the most.

It used to be the double standards that got to me most but I'm starting to recognize more how that is projection. The less I feed that monster by validating those thoughts, the less it rears it's ugly head. Now I focus more on the root of what he's really saying and validate the more rational feelings. Hard to do but easier than dealing with the hypocrisy.

[BorderlineMagnet]

Manipulation sucks too. Just today I received a phone call from one of my BPD ex gf's asking if I wanted to work on things when she got out of her latest stab at rehab (what is it, the fourth try I think?). She had this friendly, yet desperate tone to her voice. When I flat out said no I hear her voice change to this icey cold, venomous tone and she said "whatever" and as I was going to explain to her why (never told her about the BPD ex after her, 2 in a row is too much for me), she hung up on me. It's obvious that I was just a need for her, and she thought her tone of voice could manipulate me into thinking otherwise. Sorry girl, I speak BPD now. Not fooling me.

[almost789]

1.Gaslighting, thats REALLY difficult because if you actually get trully gaslighted you question your own reality. I had a very bizzare day after he gaslighted me. I don't think I have ever felt that way before and it took hours to come back to my reality.

2.Projection: seems to be common practice now. Interesting, yes. What they call you is what they hate about themselves. I don't know how to deal with it, I've been kind of acknowleding it in a sense, like ok if you say so, I see, or something like that, then dropping it and asking to move on... .  that dissapates the rage on his part, but not sure that's the right way to deal with it. At least I don't flip out in anger anymore and throw it right back in his face. Hahaha... .  that didn't help.

3. Silent treatment... .  hahah thats a piece of cake now! It doesn't bother me all that much anymore. I have been through weeks and weeks of silence with him. I'm used to it. Funny, he doesn't do it anymore much either.

[Chazz]

To me I think it was

-push/pull and its more-of-the-same version breakup/makeup

-contradictions saying A then B then C doing D meaning E ( https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=187665.0;topicseen )

-self centeredness or 'un-we-ness'. I lacked the continuity and consistency of a 'we' feeling, and accompanying security of the r/s. Had that in episodes only.

There was also an 'on-the-brink' quality in the r/s not mentioned here that I felt; her beeing either in the r/s or out of it, but mostly balancing just right there perfectly in between, on the edge of being in/out - 'on-the-brink'. I felt oftentimes I had to 'win her minute by minute'. VERY stressful

yeah well... .  the craze of it all... .  rollercoaster... .  on-off... .  

/Careman

Constantly being on the "edge of being in/out"... .  AMEN ! ! ! !

[Nearlybroken]

The hardest symptom for me (not that any of them are easy to live with) is the lying.Utter pointless lies... .  to me and about me.I also struggle with the fact that he feels he can express his (distorted ) opinions but when I attempt to convey my point of view he just switches off... .  makes me feel like I am not worth listening too.Mind you... .  maybe I should be grateful for those times because when he does listen he invariably reacts with yet more distortion and anger.It sounds dramatic but I feel like I am trapped in a nightmare.

[enough abuse]

OMG, I can relate to all these... .  definatly lying, +++ refusing medical and psy treatment, denial they have a problem and try to convince anyone they can every behavior of theirs... .  is really you... .  manipulation, push pull... .  put others in a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation. 

My prayers for all families dealing with a family member with BPD and or narcissism... .  

[luckyduck]

I can relate to everything but my absolute biggest peeve as others have said is the lying.  Flat out, look me in the face LIES!  I don't know how to handle it! UGH!

[whereisthezen]

Lying is bad!

What took me by surprise for last few months was realizing their was a whole web of lies and deceipt.

White lies I'm ok with but deceptive lies oh that makes reality into an uncomfortable place for me. Best thing is telling myself the truth, listening out for the truth, opening up to projections so I can hear what the real issues going on are and of course going to Coda meetings. Which I'm overdue on and going wed/thurs so need it.

Byasilver verbal abuse is horrendous. Not loud voices shouting it is foul and deep and disturbing so I definitely see that as a big  in bod r/s's too.

BLM manipulation occurs in a lot of the behaviors you generalized it well, projection, lying, gas lighting, mirroring, it all has a hint of manipulation. I hope you are doing well?

[Bananas]

All.  But the dissmissiveness hurts me the most. 

[whereisthezen]

Bananas,

Dismissive on your feelings? Events? Communication?

[Bananas]

Bananas,

Dismissive on your feelings? Events? Communication?

All of the above.  I could write a novel.

Feelings:

The closer we got the more that feelings I had he dismissed or ignored.  "You don't love me".  "you have no right to be angry", "why are you sad just get over it,", "you are crazy", even when we were together and having a good day, "it makes me sick that you are so happy all the time".  As the relationship progressed, it seemed as though if I kept things on a superficial level he was fine.

Events:

Any "good" prolonged intimiate periods were followed by him going silent for days.  He would just disappear.  So I felt as if the time we spent together was dismissed.  And anything "bad" and argument, he would just sweep under the rug.  It didn't happen.   

Communication:

To this day he has not talked to me face to face about anything to do with our "breakup". (basically he moved on, didn't tell me, I found out from a third party).  When I tried to communicate with him about what was going on I got one very angry phone call about "how I was acting like a crazy person and ruined his life" then a few dismissive emails and texts pretty much, "get over it, I moved on, I have nothing to say, I owe you no explanation, the only thing I can do is forget the whole deal."

   

When I see him (we work together) he either ignores me completely or tries to talk to me like everything is normal and we are "best friends".  And this can switch up by the hour.

 


 

[MammaMia]

It never ceases to amaze me how the symptoms of BPD are so exact in everyone who has it. 

It is a difficult... . no... . impossible disorder.  One must love a pwBPD unconditionally and put up with their bs or move on.

Take care to protect yourself from the abuse that goes hand-in-hand with this illness.  We are not stupid, crazy, or a list of other negatives.  That is their perception.  Do not fall for it.

[qwaszx]

for me its the lies(really pointless lies), and manipulation, that she has to be in control of everything! 

[BlushAndBashful]

I don't even know how to answer this, because I still get riled up over all of it.

The lies. OMG the lies. The quantity and quality and the varying shades of truth. Pathological.

The push/pull.

The lukewarm "friends" mode- he would dole out the medium chill at random.

The compartmentalization (I was never allowed near his friends or family)

Passive aggressive behavior

Refusal to seek help (coupled with lying about getting help or taking his meds)

Inability to have an actual disagreement or debate- he just agreed with everything I said.

Inability to state his own wants, needs, and desires. (And then I was "controlling"

Smear campaigns - I had never heard of them, but OH BOY did I live them

Gaslighting

Changing his mind on a dime about issues he was 100% positive, hard-core, fully-on-board for. Or against.

But I think the hardest symptom for me to deal with is the fact that he IS both. He is both Jekyll and Hyde. He is both wonderful and devious. I had thought he was an amazing man who happened to have an occasional slip. I thought with enough communication or work, we could get through those little obstacles. Almost like a physical health condition- where they are great 95% of the time until they (have a seizure, don't take their insulin, get stung by a bee and have an allergic reaction, etc).  If he were just a jerk, I would have kicked him to the curb long ago. If he were as great as he sometimes was, he would have been a keeper. If he was just an average guy with normal ups and downs... . well, I wouldn't be here. It's very hard to accept that one person can be on both extreme ends of the spectrum. 

[mobala]

Everything. The way he acknowledges and understands what he does when he is in his "good place" (his words), the way he inevitably forgets all that as soon as he is triggered by (anything... .   ANYTHING) he feels offended by.

The exhaustion of it all. The way it it is sucking the life from me.

The insanity of trying couples therapy, only to watch him present his wounded, misunderstood persona, that I sadly watch the counselor get sucked into while admonishing me how better to communicate in less "fighting words" (yah I know, I read that couples counseling would likely not be effective but still wanted to try).

You know what my "fighting word" was today? I said the word... .   never. 45 minutes wasted of my life debating my choosing the word,NEVER, because it made him feel devalued. THIS... .   while he expects understanding for everything because "I know how he is".

I feel like banging my head against the wall with the absurdity of it all. The insanity. I am existing (yes... .   right word... .   NOT living... .   ) in a world of bizarre reality.

And then he demands that I verbally say I am not going to leave him while I am in yet another throe of this twisted reality.

You know what the hardest thing is? Not mattering. Having it be all about him. His blindness to it all. Worried... .   seriously worried... .   that I am with a crazy person.

OMG, I can soo much relate to your post. With exception of word "never#... . for me it was "no". I'll not sleep on the couch, I'm going to bed.

And also for me... . the hardest- to be painted black. ALL the time... . EVERY DAY for the last year.

We're together for ten years and I did leave him last year, because it was impossible to be in a relationship like that... . but now... . now our R is mental institution without medication or help.

[HazelJade]

- Expecting me to read his mind and punishing me when I don't read it well enough or quickly enough.

- Silence treatment.

- Projections.

- And this: (still very hard to accept for me)

He is both Jekyll and Hyde. He is both wonderful and devious. ... . It's very hard to accept that one person can be on both extreme ends of the spectrum. 

[Mr Bean]

It's tough to say, but for me the worst of it is that I'm the only one who realizes what she does. Her friends and my family all see her as the sweetest, most wonderful person imaginable. They don't understand her splitting behavior, or the emotional abuse, or her projective or exaggerated behaviors. I'm sure her friends think our relationship fell apart almost exclusively because of me, and my family just thinks she's completely innocent in general. It all makes me feel completely alone in this battle.

Damn it. Your story is similar to mine.

[Mr Bean]

For me lying, lack of empathy, selfish, controlling and abusive.

[SadWifeofBPD]

The Splitting is the worst.  Being "split black" for the most minor things (or non-issues) is unbelievable because then he throws every attack at me (cheating, lying, bad wife, bad mother, etc).  And during those times, he gets on the phone with his relatives (who live far away and I haven't seen in over 7 years) and he says all these horrible things (cheating, etc) and they BELIEVE him.  So, then they hate me, too... . based on lies.

I once read my H's notes from a T session while I was "painted black".  One thing he said to his T was: "my family can't understand why I'm still married to her, and they know her."   I confronted him about that because not only does his family not know me, they have only spent 4-5 times with me in 30 years!     All short periods (like Christmas) and I was an excellent guest.  I asked him how his family could "know me," and he wouldn't answer.  The fact is that all they know is the lies he tells them when he has split me black.  That's when I'm Hitler's Sister. 

I am expected to be PERFECT.  I once asked my H to name 5 "flaws" that I'm "allowed" to have that he won't bug me about. (and I meant minor things).  He couldn't/wouldn't name any because he doesn't want me to have any flaws.  But, he denied that he expects perfection.  

[MammaMia]

Sadwife

As we all know, BPD affects the part of the brain that controls these emotions (or lack of).  But it sounds as if you were actually able to discuss his accusations with your husband.  That in itself is amazing.  I hope it gave him something to think about.  They do that when they think no one is looking, you know!  They replay conversations over and over in their head.

My pwBPD is not a spouse but an adult child and I do not live with him.  I seriously doubt I could handle what you and others with BPD spouses go through on a daily basis.  The verbal abuse is so demoralizing and demeaning.  It is just plain cruel.

It takes a very strong person to rationalize it is the illness speaking and to deal with it on such an intimate level.  You and others in your situation deserve our respect and compassion.

[SadWifeofBPD]

As we all know, BPD affects the part of the brain that controls these emotions (or lack of).  But it sounds as if you were actually able to discuss his accusations with your husband.  That in itself is amazing.  I hope it gave him something to think about.  They do that when they think no one is looking, you know!  They replay conversations over and over in their head.

H has told me many times that his family doesn't think that I cheated on him.  But, when I ask him how he cleared that up, he wouldn't answer.  The fact is that he has told them that many times.  How can he then later say, "Uh, I made it all up"?   That's why I don't believe him.  If he had "cleared things up" with them, then they'd know never to believe him.  but, they do believe everything he says about me.  The funny thing is when I'm "white" again, then he raves about how awesome I am, and they still don't understand that he has a serious problem. 

[MammaMia]

Depending on how your husband treats his family and his history with them, they may know more than they are letting on.  If he is truly BPD, he has probably been so for a long time.

Has he acted this way through your entire marriage?  Do you know at what age he was diagnosed?

Perhaps they are aware something is wrong but do not want to make it their problem by recognizing that he is sick.

[em754]

Lying! It's the lying!

So much of this disorder revolves around lying! Gas-lighting, distortion campaigns, painting their victim(s) black and white, etc.

They lie to avoid shame.

They lie to avoid responsibility.

They lie to avoid reality.

They lie to receive attention.

They lie in order to appear as someone they are not.

They lie to make you appear as someone you are not.

Lies. So many lies.

This is it in a nutshell, everything flows on from the lying!

[qwaszx]

i changed my mind, for me the biggest isnt the lies(i normally know when shes lying anyways) its the detaching and disappearing when shes suicidal, it scares the hell out of me... . not knowing if shes ok or if shes gone to far this time... . ahh!