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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: "Reality Distortion Field" - I  (Read 3691 times)
Hurt llama
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2013, 11:52:00 PM »

WHen I got home from my trip to see my ex... .   I almost immediately hooked up with a really good looking British girl... . I met her in a bar... . she was really drunk and I walked her home... . she invited me up but she was wasted and I took her to her place and the doorman had to help her to her apartment... .

The short story is that by experiencing the Condom Incident, I was cured in a way I never was since I met my ex BPD.
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2013, 12:55:02 AM »

CryingWings, i can't express how happy i am that this helped. i see myself reflected in your words and thoughts in the response, so, i'm learning from you too  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Here's the deal--here's what i had to do and I'd like for all of us to try and do this (Hurt llama, you especially bro!). Try to take a step back away from the BPD  Smiling (click to insert in post) Said like a cop "Sir/Ma'am, please take a step back from the BPD, there's nothing to see hear." Step back = Zoom out = Forget for a minute everything about the BPD and look at the situation through a new lens, zoomed out from BPD and also from your surrounding emotions.

Now, without thinking of WHY/HOW a person with BPD would act like this, let's just acknowledge the act DID in fact happen. We don't care why, we just know it did, repeatedly.

Last step! Now, how did YOU feel in this situation? Did you experience emotional violence (EV), sometimes so powerful it affected you physically (nervous shaking, butterflies in stomach, etc.)? How did YOU feel? How did YOU feel?

^^That's it. How YOU felt at the moment is YOUR TRUTH. Now that we know the Truth that our trusty bodies have informed us of, ACCEPT this gift of Insight! Smiling (click to insert in post)

Ask ourselves, how often does EV occur to you "by mistake"?

In my opinion, a synonym for a person with BPD is MASTER MANIPULATOR. Why? They have been practicing the art of EV for DECADES usually by the time we meet them. Out of self protection/preservation? Maybe. Because of childhood trauma? Perhaps. But, it's important to remove your focus Off of the reasons and shift your awareness to the reality of what they are Doing. What is their behavior? What did they actually do?

Look at their Actions, never their Words

Drop your thoughts, then remember how You felt, then Accept this gift as your Truth

The following two steps above will show you the situation in a new light.

Hurt llama, I can attest, as you have that there were so many times that my exBPDgf was really honest with me. In many ways she had so much integrity--I would have never been with somebody that long unless they did have true integrity and honesty. -- BUT, I've learned I had to trust My Truth, My Body whilst only accepting her Actions & Behavior as Truth.

There were plenty of amazing times when my ex's Actions were beautiful, as well as her words. And, there were plenty of times when my ex's Actions were horribly sickening, while her words were still "true".

Hurt llama I'd like for you to consider the disgust you felt during these times of EV as the TRUTH. Whether it was done out of girlish flippance or practiced malice, does it matter?

I got some more personal stories i'd love to share but need to get back to work, LOL, but let me know if you want to hear it's helping me to use examples so i can see from 3rd person perspective... .  

Goldylamont your brilliant. Would love to hear more because it's helping me a lot. Co-incidentally or not I have been doing that experiment for the past few days. I find it interesting that you have written about it because you have again confirmed what I was mentally breaking down.
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2013, 12:11:06 PM »

I can't keep going like this and while I have a miserable record of breaking it off... . I have to at the very least greatly reduce the contact and the anxiety from expecting contact from her.

I could not just stop and disappear... .   that's not possible for me or good in anyway... . We are connected vaguely in some past business and ugh she owes me money... . but she's always paid it back... . I have to get out before she drops the bomb that she is with someone else and I can't fault her for it as it's just a matter of time for both of us... . I thought I was ready to date... . but obviously not.

Here's what i sent:

======

Hope you are having a good day today…

I need to focus on my life and work as you know and have seen and step back from sharing or over sharing details of each others lives.

In order for me and you to heal better in a healthier way, I think it's best to greatly reduce the contact that we have between us.

I hope things go well for you with X and as I have said, I know you will always land on your feet and will find your way.

I think it's great you are trying new things with therapy even if certain parts of it might not work for you.

There is much hurt and pain that I/We never seemed to have recovered from. We continue being open to each other and in that we continue to be stuck in a pattern that keeps the pain going…or at least it does for me.

I know you will repay me the loan as soon as you can, even if I am not part of your day to day life.

We always say we wish the other well and we both mean it. I am proud of most of what we have been for each other and my life is better having had you a part of it.

I have great respect for your strength, resolve and ability.

====
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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2013, 12:36:13 PM »

Hurt llama that was a great letter and a huge step towards your personal emancipation. It was very clear, truthful and compassionate.
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« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2013, 01:07:47 PM »

Excerpt
But, could it be that the words "I'm sorry that you had to see that" meant exactly the opposite? Oh yeah, it's True the condom was there, and oh boy we give her so much credit for being "honest" and not "lying" about being with another guy, right? This is the woman you've repeatedly said is incapable of caring about your feelings at all--think she really was "sorry you had to see that"? Or do you think she felt safer, felt better, because this "accident" kept you under her thumb? The beauty of it being, you get emotionally crushed, at the same time congratulating her for her "honesty".

I would like to compliment Goldy on what I also see as a brilliant analysis.  I went through very similar things with my ex.  She cheated on me and called me 2 days later to tell me.  At the time, I felt like commending her for her honesty, because it was in fact brutal.  This was long before I knew anything about BPD and I took her back; in large part because she was "honest" and seemingly apologetic.  I can easily look back on her "honesty" now and see how it was all about her and not me.  She either needed to purge in order to try to rid herself of her guilt and shame, she was trying to test/ control me, or both.  And I'm not making this analysis through a "BPD lens"... .   I just know her. 

There was a more recent example of this same type of "brutal honesty".  After nearly 2 months of NC, I started talking with my ex and allowed myself to be involved in a recycle attempt.  Completely unsolicited and literally out of the blue, my ex shared with me, "I tried having sex with someone else after we broke up to make myself feel better, but it didn't work".  I was shocked she shared this and said nothing for a good 30 seconds.   Finally, I said, "Why would you tell me that?'.  She replied, "Things just fly out of my mouth".   B.S... .      She was dying to tell me that for reasons I can probably guess:  1) She wanted to gauge my reaction 2) She wanted me to offer the same type of info to her 3) She wanted to feel better about herself for "being honest"... .   or some combination of those general motivations.     There's no chance she felt this information would be useful or good for me to hear.

My ex prided herself on "telling everything" and expected the same from me.  It's easy to get caught up in the type of boundary-free behavior under the guise of "total honesty".  I know I did.  There are things we shouldn't tell others for many reasons.  One of those is respect for the other person's feelings.  A good reason for healthy boundaries... .     "Total/ brutal honesty", as Goldy has pointed out, is often a result of purely selfish motivations. 

sunrising

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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2013, 01:27:09 PM »

My ex prided herself on "telling everything" and expected the same from me.  It's easy to get caught up in the type of boundary-free behavior under the guise of "total honesty".  I know I did.  There are things we shouldn't tell others for many reasons.  One of those is respect for the other person's feelings.  A good reason for healthy boundaries... .    "Total/ brutal honesty", as Goldy has pointed out, is often a result of purely selfish motivations.

sunrising

Perfectly said, this boundary free sharing under the guise of honesty was in fact a killer for me. I didn't realize this at the beginning but only after he started using EVERYTHING I ever told him against me when he became emotionally dysregulated and would trigger a series of episodic rages, and yes all under the guise of brutal honesty. Goldylamont gave some incredible gold nuggets that truly just lit up the entire hidden ulterior motives.

It looks more like a tool/weapon he used rather than actual sharing. When I look back now I see so many lies wrapped up in this 'brutal truth' which is emotional violence and distorted manipulations.

The whole 'respect for the other person's feelings' is also a huge gem here as you stated. In my experience he didn't know what that was because he thought he had a right to know everything but what is more disturbing was that he set me up by making me feel like I could trust him when in fact he was collecting the data in order to 'destroy me'.

Well said Sunrising.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Hurt llama
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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2013, 02:07:17 PM »

Thank you CW. I was first going to post it here for critique but I couldn't wait and in a rare display of patience, I did not send the first draft and stopped, took a breath and re read what I wrote... . And I removed all the same old references to past hurt and disappointments as it wouldn't help either of us to go back into it.

I want to come back and address something Goldy raised and that I responded to. I will yet again, preface that in my specific situation/relationship I do clearly see my own manipulations of her, over and over and over. That I have used this 'brutal truth' MYSELF as a weapon... . Not intentionally but she could say she didn't intentionally do anything wrong to hurt me either (other than each of us going to war long ago and unleashing WOMD (weapons of mass destruction).

I see that I am easily as 'guilty' as she is in the 'push pull' actually I believe more than she. I have sent mixed messages and her perception that I 'always breaking up with her' is actually more correct than I have admitted... . Much more... .

By being who she simply is and the dysfunction in her life that started from a horrendous childhood, she has survived as she felt she had to. I love this woman completely and respect her, warts and all.

Did she do things to me that are actually inconceivable to me? Oh yeah... . Obviously. I played my part as she played hers.

Everything i said in the letter I believe from my heart. I do respect her, even if I see 'crazy' behavior. But she is not the promiscuous crazy slut I fear and thought at times. Not even close. She chose good partners for the most part, Serious and good men. And not a crazy number of partners either.

And clearly it's not about 'numbers' or any of that. And was she a hurtful impossible woman? Um, yeah... . Maybe I should have listened closer to the time she said to me, straight at me... .   "I have always been The Impossible Girlfriend".

Was she being 'brutally honest"? To 'do' something to me. Who knows? I doubt she does.

Anyway, the purpose of this letter at the very least, is to 'reset' myself. Funny how she asked me for a 'reset'.

But to 'reset' and take the crazy attention and importance off of waiting for a text message, a phone call or an email and to take CONTROL back... .   That she IS free to be free... . I set her free after all... . and what's good for the goose is good for the gander and I can't have it both ways... .   And I made the decision that I can't have it with her as it was.

It's a big mess. I am seeing how the dynamics of this relationship, forgetting her BPD for a moment, were such that it was impossible to work and unfortunately, I see my role as being easily 50%.

And not that does not 'exonerate' her in the least.

Lastly, even if I wanted it to work, it would require me to start it is over for the reasons I said, after trying way to hard and sending mixed messages constantly.

I needed and need in ALL relationships to be firm about my boundary (not even about being right) and be the man I used to be.

I don't expect her to 'change' even thought maybe she might a bit. But I do recognise I was doing neither of us a favor of saying one thing and doing another. Over and over and over.

I feel more in control now. My date for tonight rescheduled (thank god) for tomorrow night.

I dont' have grand illusions that with one email to my ex, I will magically be ok and LC with no problem... . Unfortunately... . all i can do or try to do is control myself... . and for the moment for the last few hours... . I have no desire to reach out (duh) to her... . and I hope and and sort of actually do feel that I will feel less of a need to connect.

Now the next and tough trick... . is to be able to control myself when I have a few drinks. I am avoiding that right now.

Thank you all for posting here.
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Hurt llama
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« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2013, 02:23:08 PM »

I like to break up my posts a bit and I do want to add what it was that lead me to write this email.

Yesterday she didn't respond to texts till she got home... . she didn't "do' anything to me and I was in this anxiety filled 'space' imagining ridiculous things she was doing... . It was truly absurd! I create this false insane view of her... . as if she is Satan and a crazy slut... .   She is just so not that person... . Not even slightly.

BUT that being said, why would she NOT want me in her life? I am always there for her, always available for 'coaching' for advice to chat... . to talk about healthy lifestyles (both of us are trying) diet exercize and all really cool stuff.Of course she wouldn't want that to stop... .   24/7/365 friend.

BUT as sure as I am sitting her and writing this... . without a question of a doubt, this woman will make it clear to me by changing the patterns of availability and in her way announce that she is with someone else... .   Now this doesn't by itself sound that bad or even dysfunctional but she did this BEFORE we met... . We had this online relationship early on and she disappeared and then said she could not be with more than one partner at a time.

What? And she went on to tell me about this much older man she had had sex with... .   and she couldnt be with me as we were.

That was the earthquake I ignored... .   But i remember keeping my center... . and controlling my breathing and carefully explaining that she didn't need to be so explicit with me, didn't need to tell me... . that it would have been fine to simply say it 100x different easy and socially acceptable ways... . but obviously this was my first glimpse into BPD.

And I can't... . I literally can't put myself in the bullseye again... .   And as said, she is no sweet angel saint as I usually do see her... .   she has a hurtful evil side that is a secret that she can't acknowledge... .   to her there is no dark side ... . yeah... .   everything is black and white except the gray area that she lives in.

Anyway,, yesterday I asked myself a question... .   What would i feel like, what would I do if she texted me something  like... . "There is no easy way to say this but I am back with Blah Blah" And in this case for this example I made Blah Blah to be the original guy she cheated with on me way back when... . and i realized how that event would feel like it would destroy me... . and sure it wouldn't but it would be a major setback and I cant afford anymore grieving.

I've come a long way... .   For all of my writing and experience I am happy to report that never is the pain even nearly as bad as it was in the past... .   The Condom Incident was a tremendous gift... .   It set me free in so many ways.

And since that time until just a couple of weeks ago, she chased me, I had sex with her... . I was in control and I never ever made believe it was anything more than friends with benefits... .   and I did amazingly well considering all this... .   It's only since I made the decision to try again that this crazy anxiety has come back to this level.

end of rant venting or confession!

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Hurt llama
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« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2013, 03:55:48 PM »

I thought I would share my ex BPD response to me letter. Here it is:

:-)


===

Did I expect more? I doubt she really read it... . and to her, it's the same old story... .

Well it frees me up to not expect to hear from her and to control myself not to reach out... . one day at a time.
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Hurt llama
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« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2013, 08:23:52 PM »

Every time i get a text, I dread and hope it's from her.

If she lived in my town, I know we would be together. And it would last 1-3 days before I got jealous or angry about her relationships with men and ex's or something from the past and it would end as it almost always does.

It's especially hard as I still have control here. I remind myself that I am not in shape to easily tolerate another... . "I am back with so and so or some other insanity"

SHe sent me a smile face as a response? 

It's more than what I was expecting actually. 
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« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2013, 08:51:30 PM »

ok, i'm still reading through all the great new posts but i couldn't help but share this link before i forgot--please watch this and LAUGH!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g3tQaqizh0

then read this, it's pretty cool analyses but i think we're doing just as well here:

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-second-noble-truth/201112/seinfeld-upper-hand-and-relationship-attachment-style


Having "The Hand" is a relationship is a normal power struggle, even in normal healthy relationships. but with a BPD the lengths they go to get or maintain power is so far beyond what most normal people would do or comprehend. and the other side of the token is that if you are the one with "The Hand" at the time you still get treated horribly, and they will do terrible things until they get control again   ok, now i'm gonna read the new posts
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« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2013, 09:06:45 PM »

oh, HL since you shared your letter here is the last note i sent to my X. i hadn't heard from her for about 6-7 months, but heard from mutual friends that she was having trouble with her current bf. i'm pretty sure they broke up recently, so out of the blue she calls me and leaves a message. my phone was trippin so i didn't get the voicemail till a week later.

like you, she owes me some money, but i'm not really worried about getting it back at this point. here's what i wrote:

hi X,

so, i got you're message just yesterday, my silly old iphone is on it's last legs and i missed a lot of calls early last week amongst it loosing battery power and not being able to connect. so i just got like 6 voicemails i had missed. i really appreciate the call. also it sounds like you are making a lot of positive changes with a new job and a new home? good stuff. so, i don't want you to worry about the money anymore. all that i wanted to know was that you cared about it and were trying your best. i don't know if i mentioned it before but it meant so much to me that you gave me those two checks over the summer even though i knew you were still in transition. this made me feel appreciated, and i realize is all that i really needed. so thank you for that and don't worry about the rest ok?

and the drill! omg i totally forgot about that drill, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)! obviously this speaks to how little handy work i've been doing the past few months. please don't worry about it, i'm sure you're getting more use out of it than me anyways. stay crafty! i kinda wanted to get a new one anyways at some point so this is a good excuse for me  good luck on the new job and the new place. i hope they provide for you all that you are deserving of.

take care,

-me


so, i wrote this letter for several reasons--one b/c i knew she was just contacting me b/c she's fresh out of a relationship and could care less if she wrecks the one i'm in now (whole nother story about that). everything i say above is true, but what i was doing was removing any reason she would have to contact me. don't worry about the money. don't worry about the drill. it's not that i disliked hearing from her, on the contrary, just hearing the voicemail and her being nice to me was such a relief... .   but then i have to watch myself, and i realize that i really wanted to keep her as a friend, but that i probably shouldn't. i may entertain the idea way later in the future but no way we could even be friends as long as i'm with my current gf--there was an episode of what i'll call a "fake recycle" with ex several months ago, and so now i would NEVER put my current gf through this again (at the time me & the current gf had just started dating 2 months prior to the fake recycling, so not too serious yet, but still).

so, yeah, i understand how it is when there are still things in the r/s left linking you two together. if you can remove these then perhaps it would force her to contact you, just b/c she wanted to know how you were doing, without using things like money owed, etc. as an excuse. but, then again not sure if that makes it better, but for me i'm like, if you want to talk or say hi, just say that... .
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« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2013, 09:54:07 PM »

... .   After nearly 2 months of NC, I started talking with my ex and allowed myself to be involved in a recycle attempt.  Completely unsolicited and literally out of the blue, my ex shared with me, "I tried having sex with someone else after we broke up to make myself feel better, but it didn't work".  I was shocked she shared this and said nothing for a good 30 seconds.   Finally, I said, "Why would you tell me that?'.  She replied, "Things just fly out of my mouth".   B.S... .      She was dying to tell me that for reasons I can probably guess:  1) She wanted to gauge my reaction 2) She wanted me to offer the same type of info to her 3) She wanted to feel better about herself for "being honest"... .   or some combination of those general motivations.     There's no chance she felt this information would be useful or good for me to hear... .

... .   "Total/ brutal honesty", as Goldy has pointed out, is often a result of purely selfish motivations. 

sunrising

sunrising so sorry you had to go through this. fortunately for me, much of the worst came after i broke up with ex but we still lived together. she immediately started dating a guy a few weeks after our 4 yr r/s ended, while we were still living together. 2 weeks after they met she changed her r/s status on FB to being in a r/s with the new guy, announcing it to 50 mutual friends who didn't even know we had broken up yet (and didn't say a word to me even though we lived together, i found out from a friend of mine later that day).

she sat in bed and read this astrology book about their two astrological signs and would giggle out loud while lying next to me in bed, giddy over her new r/s. she'd get up to make some tea or something and leave the book open to the page that talked about the amazing sexual compatibility of her sign and his sign. of course, this was done "on accident".

randomly one day after i got out of the shower she commented "it's really weird... .   ", I'm like "what's weird?". and she explains with a big friendliest of friends smile "it's just weird, exploring another man's body after being with the same person for so long. i dunno, it's just different." hey, thanks for telling me about that you friggin sociopath. i had already told her that it hurt me deeply that she was seeing someone else, but that i respected the fact that we were broken up and that i would respect her new r/s. but that wasn't enough, she wanted to taste blood.

the kicker was valentines day, i wrote her a note telling her how much our r/s meant to me, how much she meant to me even though it was over. i hid it in a book or something, she found it and cried and told me thank you. she had started dating the other guy about 2 weeks prior (this was just before announcing it to the world). anyways, later that day after being with him she comes home with the biggest smile and is like "Look what Sloppy got me!" I'm calling her "bf" at the time Sloppy to remain anonymous--"Look what Sloppy got me for valentines day!" it was some stupid hankerchief with a big heart on it with some saying like "you are my heart" or something like that. she was so happy showing it off, and i meant so much to her that she decided to fold it nicely and put it right on the bedside stand where it could be seen. in the bed we were both still sleeping in for a few more days before her silly ass finally started sleeping on the couch before moving out 2 weeks later.

brutal honesty? nay my friends! emotional violence  Smiling (click to insert in post)

p.s. so the great part of the story and confirmation for me of her BPD likelyness--while we lived together she would take every opportunity to tell me how great her new bf was. she said they were planning long nature walks and camping trips together, and that she felt so secure in this new relationship (of 2/3 weeks) because they both "trusted" each other. Trust, by the way, was the biggest issue we had in our r/s. She was just trying to throw this in my face. All of this was said with a smile, because, we were friends, right? Whatever. So, anyways this perfect guy and perfect r/s ended less than 4 months later with him texting her crazy texts all night calling her every name for whore under the sun... .   she said she was a little scared of him. she wanted everyone to feel sorry for her. i felt sorry for Sloppy's silly ass; what a sucker
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Hurt llama
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« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2013, 10:07:44 PM »

ok, i'm still reading through all the great new posts but i couldn't help but share this link before i forgot--please watch this and LAUGH!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g3tQaqizh0

then read this, it's pretty cool analyses but i think we're doing just as well here:

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-second-noble-truth/201112/seinfeld-upper-hand-and-relationship-attachment-style


Having "The Hand" is a relationship is a normal power struggle, even in normal healthy relationships. but with a BPD the lengths they go to get or maintain power is so far beyond what most normal people would do or comprehend. and the other side of the token is that if you are the one with "The Hand" at the time you still get treated horribly, and they will do terrible things until they get control again   ok, now i'm gonna read the new posts

That's so great and true and depressing.

I was just daydreaming before I saw this post. I imagine that if she comes here in a couple of weeks she will reach out to me. Two weeks in this process feels like 2 years by the way (obviously)... . In this fantasy, I see her of course (as usual) we have a great 1-3 days tops... . and during this time or even better, when she gets back, she acts dodgy and goes whereabouts unknown with a noticeable change in text patterns... .   She returns and drops the text bomb... .   "It was great seeing you and there's no easy way to tell you this but... .   "

There could be slight variations to this but it's pre ordained... . and what I did in this fantasy daydream is imagining how it will feel when it happens.

If i do see her again and frankly the odds do favor this even though hopefully I can avoid another annoyance (I'm calling them 'annoyances' as opposed to the WPE (Worst Pain Ever) as they actually do get lesser each time.

Pardon the stupid question but do you think she is aware of a power struggle? Or is she just naturally better suited for this type of stuff? (That's my guess).

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« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2013, 10:24:31 PM »

so, i wrote this letter for several reasons--one b/c i knew she was just contacting me b/c she's fresh out of a relationship and could care less if she wrecks the one i'm in now (whole nother story about that). everything i say above is true, but what i was doing was removing any reason she would have to contact me. don't worry about the money. don't worry about the drill. it's not that i disliked hearing from her, on the contrary, just hearing the voicemail and her being nice to me was such a relief... .   but then i have to watch myself, and i realize that i really wanted to keep her as a friend, but that i probably shouldn't. i may entertain the idea way later in the future but no way we could even be friends as long as i'm with my current gf--there was an episode of what i'll call a "fake recycle" with ex several months ago, and so now i would NEVER put my current gf through this again (at the time me & the current gf had just started dating 2 months prior to the fake recycling, so not too serious yet, but still).

so, yeah, i understand how it is when there are still things in the r/s left linking you two together. if you can remove these then perhaps it would force her to contact you, just b/c she wanted to know how you were doing, without using things like money owed, etc. as an excuse. but, then again not sure if that makes it better, but for me i'm like, if you want to talk or say hi, just say that... .

I think I read that letter in another thread. Did you send it to manipulate her and make her feel bad in a way as you are being so nice? That's my style. As far as forgetting the money, I did that with my last gf as the pain of dealing with her paying me a measly amount each week was sheer torture. And I told her it was a gift was a good thing to do.But it was not such a small amount of money either... . It's freaking so annoying if I think about it!

My current ex also owes me substantial money... . like a good months worth of high expenses... . I can afford it but I really don't want to not get paid back even though yeah, if i could escape unscathed from here it would be worth it. The worst possible move ever would let her off the hook now. It would make things worse!

Oddly both of them and including my ex wife all are extremely honorable about stuff like this. It goes against all reason actually.

I hate talking about my ex with my sister, who is so steadfast and stubborn that I am a victim and that she will not see my ex as she is not supporting any relationship. Period. It really really bothered me when she said this as she's just so tough... . I get her point completely but she's brutal. I told my sister last night that I am realizing with my ex BPD, it's maybe not impossible to have a relationship (it might be possible at the cost of my testicles) but it is not possible to just be friends... .   and that's a new revelation.

As a guy, I fight with the idea that she is very attractive, extremely good to be with for short periods of time (sort of like a high priced escort (which was her fantasy when she was younger) and that I SHOULD be able to enjoy her, use her as much as I want in all ways and carry no emotional attachement more than the time we share in that period of time.

Even as I write this, it sounds like it makes perfect sense.

Here' the 'rub'. What I am started to do, is imagine scenarios and that and coldly assess the risks. In reality, the risks are bot with her really, they are with me. She doesn't start fights directly. It's always me. I know I could see her enjoy her and probably escape unscathed. The risks is crystal clear... .

If she comes here and has sex with me, the odds she is in a relationship and had a 'fight' with him to allow herself to justify being with me are great... . It's her MO, it's what she does. SHe doesn't 'cheat' in the traditional sense, she creates uncertainty with her current person or she makes a promise to herself that if she can get me, she will be with me. She means this for sure. But that's another story.

Regardless of what I do or what happens the same work needs to be done now. I need to detach. I need to stay busy and I need to get out and be productive during the day. I am in the worst rut in my life and have spent more time inside since January than any time in my life. It's not that bad as I am very busy working on some projects but with warm weather, hopefully things start to lift and get much better all around.
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« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2013, 11:00:24 PM »

These 'daydreams' are a helpful part of this process... .

And it's making me think back to the conversations we had the last two times I as with her here. I just had an actual 'lightbulb' moment  Idea

That my experience of her is so absurdly simplistic it's incredible. I am seeing things in black and white (pardon the expression) or better said I am not at all paying attention.

She was not here in any way casually. The first time about 6 weeks ago, she was here for a job interview, floated the usual wish to be with me forever and assuring me that everything worked out 'right' and we can finally have the life we wanted from the beginning. She's totally right in that but her constant 'chatter' an almost internal 'dialogue' she was saying out loud was "He loves me. He really loves me" (over and over) and "I love you completely. Totally. (obvious in hindsight that that was what she wanted from me)

And when it ended poorly, as usual because of me and related to sex and of course a business contact she needed to see who happened to be an ex.

When she returned home, yup, yet another disappearance and reuniting with her bf and that exploded badly.

So when she returned, again... . it was acquisition mode for me.

There IS NOTHING CASUAL ABOUT HER AND SEX OR IN RELATIONSHIPS.

And I have to remember, that she can say anything and truly believe it as it's true when she said it (ugh) but truth is she will be with me again, have her backup plan in motion and try her hardest to sink her hooks into me yet again. All veiled in this new "Special Friend For Life" thing she came up with in the last texting we did.

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« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2013, 04:58:21 AM »

There IS NOTHING CASUAL ABOUT HER AND SEX OR IN RELATIONSHIPS.

And I have to remember, that she can say anything and truly believe it as it's true when she said it (ugh) but truth is she will be with me again, have her backup plan in motion and try her hardest to sink her hooks into me yet again. All veiled in this new "Special Friend For Life" thing she came up with in the last texting we did.

excuse my curtness--she's gaslighting you masterfully like she's been doing to you and to her other bf and to many, many other relationships previous to you. and, what she most likely will to do any meaningful relationships after you.

please do not fault or come down upon yourself. see the thing is, being a normal person means feeling bad when you do bad things, caring and thinking about the other person's thoughts (empathy), taking responsibility for your own actions.

i don't think there's anything that i could say or your sister could say, or anyone for that matter. i believe time and your own inner strength will get to the bottom of this. (i sense a deep inner strength in you, and not only is it strong, but it's Funny, able to laugh at itself and not take things too seriously--this is Very good strength Hurt llama! You have a strong base to work from).

i see clues of your awareness peaking when you say things like that you're not making excuses for her... .   are you sure that's not a question your awareness is asking of you? are you asking whether you are making excuses? maybe not... .   maybe not yet

hmm, let me share with you my latest greatest fear; distilled down to the root: i will never be able not only to be in a relationship with my ex again, but it's pointless for me to even be a friend to this person, "ever" << to use the word of your exgf  Smiling (click to insert in post) i want to go back and delete that last sentence so bad. i do, but see, the truth here is in our greatest fears and this i feel is my journey to accept.

our conscious minds, in particular, our fragile and glorious egos, fight our bodies to the death to not have to face our true fears. Hurt llama, what are you MOST afraid of?

i think when you can state this as i stated above it can help define the course you'll need to take going forward. don't rush it. keep ruminating for a while if you need. i'm not so worried i'm glad you mentioned your sister as support and as i mentioned, you have an inner strength that attracts--this isn't some janky compliment by the way. the proof of your strength is in the fact that you've hooked the attention of several other great thinkers in this thread. likewise you can use this same power to bring into your life healthier alternatives. but give it time. this person was a big part of your life and will take a big part of your life to process and move beyond. and if the words "move beyond" in that sentence hit a scary note... . trust me i understand  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2013, 05:17:43 AM »

I think I read that letter in another thread. Did you send it to manipulate her and make her feel bad in a way as you are being so nice? That's my style.

My current ex also owes me substantial money... . like a good months worth of high expenses... . I can afford it but I really don't want to not get paid back even though yeah, if i could escape unscathed from here it would be worth it. The worst possible move ever would let her off the hook now. It would make things worse!

i used to play games with my ex but committed to not do this any more. no, i wasn't trying to play nice with this letter to manipulate her--not b/c i'm some Zen master, but because i KNOW it is a dumb dumb and painful choice to try to manipulate a Master Manipulator  Smiling (click to insert in post) hell, i've only been manipulating in relationships since being with her, like maybe 2 or 3 of the 4 yrs we were together i tried that game. she's got prolly over 2 decades, she'll beat me every time, Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). No, every word in that letter was true to me. the reason i was nice was personal, for me, i actually felt really happy about hearing from her, and felt good that she was being nice to me. everything i said in the letter was true and that's why i'm so proud of it. i don't care about the money or the drill. buuuuut, now i'm checking myself, it was nice to have that moment of happiness and to share a brief friendly conversation with her... .   but now i'm checking myself, and have found out that i actually wanted a friendship with her, and that's just a silly notion now. a friendship now is not so good. so, that's where i draw the line for myself and say, that was great, knowing she doesn't hate me and we can be friendly, but on another note, yo what the hell are you thinking? you don't actually want to be friends right? i'm very happy with the letter, i meant it and still do, but now making sure i don't take things too far.

now, you're situation is different--it sounds like more money and that you're not comfortable giving this up. that's totally understandable. so not sure what to say. other than, at some point, perhaps having her never call you again using the reason of $ she owes you would be worth more than the $ itself. perhaps a good question to ask yourself is this: could you tell her, in a nice way that you appreciate so much her paying you back, and that you prefer her to just send you a check or paypal it? with no other correspondence? how linked is her giving you the money back a link to staying in touch with her? you guys don't need to talk for her to pay you back, right? ... .   are these questions bringing any anxiety to you? if so, why?

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« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2013, 01:50:26 PM »

Very much appreciate you sharing your experiences and your perceptions and feelings about my 'situation'.

You are right in that there is no single thing anyone could have said (past tense) to me about my relationship way back when... . If I had found this forum or had a diagnosis of her, (even though I knew it all in a different way) it would have helped me tremendously and moved things forward much faster.

I've come to the forum, far along in the process. I've made the split and I have kept connection since we met but we do live far from each other and don't see each other than often.

There is no question, and little doubt, I will continue as I am and things are fundamentally shifting pretty fast. I see her much clearer and I see my own part extremely clearly.

It's petering out. It's losing steam... . The 'power' she had is greatly diminished. It's obvious. It's the same things over and over and over…with small variations.

She's been married for a very long time and during that marriage things were very different in her life. I believe that the birth of her daughter triggered her and was the beginning of her disassociating and in some ways 'waking up'... . IN good ways and in dysfunctional.

SHe doesn't have "many many relationships'  and the ones she has are not with losers or that extreme... . No, I'm the 'lucky one'... . And it matters really not at all anyway anymore.

My process is maddening to watch. I know that. I would have trouble hearing a friend go on and on like this (and I have). That's why it's great I found this place!

For myself, I was married for 17 years with a total of 20 years with my first wife. We had our problems and I finally decided that wasn't working after really trying everything I could do to make it work out. The ending of the marriage was like a death of sorts…absolutely brutal and the settlement was rough and 'unfair' and yet I accepted it, made money, made peace and my kids had two great homes less than a mile from each other.

I had a long relationship with a great woman that lasted about 4 years (still stay in touch), and I had lots of fun dating experiences before and after that... . I did really well.

When I met my BPD ex, it was a perfect storm. My kids were starting to get older, my business was very successful and I didn't work hard and I had free time, money and everything I really ever wanted... . What she offered just by 'stats' was a continuation of the 'happy' family, living a great life in the suburbs, a pretty and smart wife and all that comes with it. The 'as if' was fantastic. It was perfect…on paper... . She's 10 years younger…I wanted to have her family mixed in with mine. I really liked her kids…and on and on.

While there is no 'single' piece of advice or anything anyone can say to me that would change things (they are already greatly changed) it is the sum or grand total of the things I read, the thoughts that are shared to me and even by me, that is all seeping in and affecting change from within... . Change in perception, seeing her differently and what she says as compared to what she does.

While we all have faced and do face very similar situations, there are differences as well. Some on the board make the decision to learn ways and means to deal with their BPD partner, it makes perfect sense that I was willing to try that two weeks ago. There's nothing wrong with that at all. The "mistake' if it should be even called that is in over estimating my ability to handle certain things such as being with a partner who is incapable of really expressing very much empathy.

"i see clues of your awareness peaking when you say things like that you're not making excuses for her... .   are you sure that's not a question your awareness is asking of you? are you asking whether you are making excuses? maybe not... .   maybe not yet"

It's important to me in all relationships to see my part in them clearly. With any dysfunctional relationship where this is abuse it does get murky in how the so called 'victim' sees his or her abuser. My goal is to see it as clearly for what it is, without giving her all the power and responsibility for things not working out. Although it is my belief things will never work out for her with anybody. I have no doubt about this and she knows it too on most levels.

Not only have I been in and managed to end a long term marriage successfully and that's defined as not being ruined or jaded by the experience even though I was with a very difficult woman (first wife) who after the birth of my second child started really showing serious bi-polar 'tendencies'. She finally found the right combination of medications and now seems to be doing pretty well. But I am very proud I not only survived that but did so with dignity and pride. It was not easy. It was extremely difficult. That does add to the base of strength that you mentioned (and I really appreciated hearing)

When I broke up with my BPD there was a terrible horrible period where she hurt me and I hurt her back times 10. Not proud of that. I felt and do feel guilty at times.

I was her worst nightmare in many ways. Her fear of abandonment and shame? She moved all of her life thousands of miles away, sold most of her things, lost her job, and as a result of me ending it suddenly (a week or two before her kids moved in) was devastating to her, even though she was acting in such crazy ways, I felt I had no choice. She usually agrees with this decision and then slips back into anger about it, just as I do about certain things she has done to hurt me.

The theme of our problems is all around her steadfast, stoic refusal to budge on decisions to be 'friends' with ex's and how it effects my feeling of safety…notice I said feeling... . in other word, I would not ever tell her what to do or even want to... . What I needed on her last visit when she just said she is going to an important business function with this ex, was some sort of softness, empathy…Obvious stuff to most of us.

She can't do that. Her career is extremely important to her and it was an important event... . But she can't and won't see how close she could have been to doing what she needs to do by 'simply ' (of course it's not simple) in making me feel 'safe'.

She is on the high functioning level of BPD, even with her financial problems and the fact her daughter was almost lost in the process of moving to my home... . Her also BPD mother is pretty much raising her sweet BPD daughter.

I do admire her dedication, determination and drive to have a better life. She is not a crazy drunken slut, even if i feel that she is at times.

She emailed me a response to a second email I had written and she's detached and has a much bigger problem than me or men right now. She is broke and awaiting word on an incredible job she probably will get.

As for me, I am in process and moving it forward even if it looks like I might be vacillating back and forth…maybe I am but less less and less.

Just came back from the dog park with my dog... . Hung out with a really smart and cute woman I've become friends with ... . I have that date tonight at 8pm... . I am more and more productive in my work and come hell or hight water I will start going to the gym and get my life back with the warmer weather.

Of this I have no doubt. My ex was ten feet tall when I met her... . how she's about 3 feet tall and getting smaller all the time.

Very appreciate your words and the time spent in trying to follow this long continuing diatribe I am journaling here.

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« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »

now, you're situation is different--it sounds like more money and that you're not comfortable giving this up. that's totally understandable. so not sure what to say. other than, at some point, perhaps having her never call you again using the reason of $ she owes you would be worth more than the $ itself. perhaps a good question to ask yourself is this: could you tell her, in a nice way that you appreciate so much her paying you back, and that you prefer her to just send you a check or paypal it? with no other correspondence? how linked is her giving you the money back a link to staying in touch with her? you guys don't need to talk for her to pay you back, right? ... .   are these questions bringing any anxiety to you? if so, why?

One good thing is that there is a good track record in matters of money with her. She pays me back with an almost vengeance. SHe hates owing me money. And as I've said, she lives to work and loves it. It's her biggest problem and the fact she came to move in with me before we were to be married was that she didnt have a job. It's not even the money. She loves working and without it is really a mess (as opposed to her usual grounded normal self... . haha)

The money issue is a non issue other than how it can bring up anxiety and anger that is really not about money. This one is easy and if it come down to it, yes, I could and would walk away and in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter.

We never had a history of talking about it and she always pays it without being asked, even if I am not in communication very much.

My email to her and my plan, while not a perfect one at all... .   It's flawed... .   and it sucks really that I can't just throw the switch and be done with her, is already starting to work in 24 hours... .   I dont feel the pull the need to reach out today... .

The danger... .   is... .   if I go out and drink and feel nostalgic, I feel the tug... .   If I date and it's not good, I feel the tug, if I am intimate with anohter woman,, I feel the tug.

Awareness is the most important part... .   and from there... .   it's one day at a time.

I might slip, I keep saying it... .   I really might... . I almost assume I will. I know a couple of things though... .   Yes I might feel more pain and it's 'stupid' if I do slip... . But I will NEVER feel the pain I used to feel again with her... . She could sleep with my best friend and her power is really going going and soon to be gone.

Maybe by preparing for a slip I might avoid it. It's a matter of how much pain one need before making the decision it's enough.

You asked what my biggest fear is? It's that I never shut the door entirely... . That i will be vulnerable forever... . that I will get away for a week, a month, six months and I will reach out to her again... .   And it's almost always ME who reaches out and me who breaks up with her.

Not proud of any of it really.

But it's the best I can do now.
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« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2013, 04:24:22 PM »

Just got a text message from the woman who emailed me from an online dating site... .

==

Hi Llama, I am sorry but I need to cancel tonight. My ex and I talked and decided to give it another try. If anything changes I will let you know... .  

Me: I totally understand. I tried that 2 weeks ago with mine. It went really great. Lol. But I hope it works for you and I appreciate the directness.

Her: I hid my profile today so you will see that I am not bs'ing. I would like it to work out. I'm hoping for the best. I didn't reach out to many and if it doesn't work out you will be the first person I will text : >

Me:I think it's cool you told me this way. I didn't even think you would make that up and I respect it.

Her: I don't like playing games and didn't want to be disrespectful.

Me: I just finally gave in and tried with my ex fiancee so i understand. You are awesome to be honest. It's a tough situation for sure. I like how you handled it and i know relationships might end but rarely are they cut and dried and easy to end. I might go to the Mexican place you suggested tonight alone if that's not to weird?

Her: No, I think that's really funny.

Me: I've been wanting guacomole and beer since you mentioned it yesterday. Maybe I'll meet my soulmate there tonight. haha... . here's my website... . and I appreciate you emailing me in the first place. I go on fewer dates these days so please pass me on to a cute and cool friend!

=======

I'm greatly relieved and I wasn't joking with her... .   My plan is unchanged but she won't be there. I wasn't really ready and although this one is really good looking and all, I didn't think it was a match anyway. whew... .   all works out.

Bet she's not BPD! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2013, 05:34:03 PM »

the thing is, being a normal person means feeling bad when you do bad things, caring and thinking about the other person's thoughts (empathy), taking responsibility for your own actions.

hmm, let me share with you my latest greatest fear; distilled down to the root: i will never be able not only to be in a relationship with my ex again, but it's pointless for me to even be a friend to this person, "ever" << to use the word of your exgf  Smiling (click to insert in post) i want to go back and delete that last sentence so bad. i do, but see, the truth here is in our greatest fears and this i feel is my journey to accept.

Goldylamont once again you have put it all succinctly. I love reading your logic and how you have in such an articulate way connected the dots. It is helping me greatly as is Hurt llama. For me it has been 3 weeks and 2 days with N/C cold turkey after he dumped me coldly and was brutally honest as to his NEW life that he was embarking on to replace me. The kind of honesty that made sure to inform me about his new found re-connections with his exes, parties, bab-b-q's , clubbing including that he was going to embark on sexual liaisons with his exes because life had to "go on" right and I'm just being honest and letting you know". He then ensured to tell me that this should however not interfere with us being best friends and family because I will always be his best friend in the entire world and I've always been family to him. He continued to tell me that it shouldn't make any difference if we can't be together in "that way" because we were first best friends and family to one another. Then he said "what is love anyways, jut an illusion, besides you have done too many things to give me reason to doubt you or trust you. You have given me every reason I need to know that this can't work because I know you would just hurt me. Maybe with your next boyfriend losing me will have taught you a lesson and you won't go around hugging other guys when you greet them. Maybe this will teach you a lesson". He said this to me in a very punitive manner. So again even while dumping me he had to punish me and make me feel like I was the sole cause.

(He was hugely jealous if I hugged or kissed guys when I greeted them hello. I did this with one of his old friends who was young and good looking and that was the straw that broke the camels back for my ex). We are both European decent and have been raised to greet this way with other Euros so it's nothing unusual.

He made sure to inform me that I would be horribly selfish if I wanted to end everything just because I couldn't "get over" the fact that we can't be together as a couple. That I would be abandoning HIM (if you can believe it) btw we were planning getting married (ugh the thought makes me ill   so there I was just 3 days prior planning my move to where he lives (a different country) setting the date etc and out of the blue 3 days later... .   The I'm Dumping You Call happens.

Somehow was supposed to feel guilty if I couldn't be his best friend and family but it sure was more than fine for him to dump me in such a cruel, inconsiderate and littered with betrayal as well as being led on the entire time. Strange thing is I had just returned from living with him for months and the call came in 12 days after I returned to my home only. The first two weeks I returned to my home he would call me crying and being a total mess missing me and feeling like in his words "half of him was missing".

So in the dump call he made sure to tell me that I would be selfish and that if I could abandon him like that then that would mean that I had zero love for him and that I was lying about everything. He was trying to black mail me here... .   but when I dissect this all it is utterly convoluted. He could take zero responsibility while at the same time continue to keep me as his best friend and family if I could just stay being his best friend but if I could not do this then it was all my fault. So the problem was ME all along again because not only could he not be with me because of "me" and all the reasons I gave him to doubt me but if I couldn't be his best friend than it was my fault because it would just confirm what he believed about me all along and how he couldn't trust me because I would hurt him and maybe even not really love him. Catch 22 here but either way I lose. Either way I'm the target and he is the machine gun.  

He then said to me in anger "so it's all or nothing with you then is it? Your not content to have what we had all along and forget the complicated bullsh&t of being in a relationship? You never loved me and your a liar". He said he would give me some time and check in somewhere down the road even though I told him to not bother. I said a strong good-bye. One of his last remarks was "I'll always make time for you on skype besides I know you will have to call me when you have some absolutely weird story that you just have to share. I mean who else can you share such things with but me Right?" Shortly after that dumping conversation  which was a total mind F&^%$k extraordinaire I deleted him from skype. This I knew he at least could see... .   and in a sense it was a subtle message to him and something he didn't think I would do I'm sure. In his mind he probably was banking that I would be desperate to keep him in any way I could.

So Hurt llama this is what I have surmised about their desire to keep us forever as their 'special friends for life' or what ever spin they call it.

Goldylamont please tell me if I have more or less a handle on this okay and extend on what I'm trying to say here. This is all new to me and I had a crash course in BPD that began the day he dumped me 3 weeks ago.

I surmise that I can NEVER be my exes friend, best friend or family because it is just a manipulation from his part. I can't speak for anyone else clearly but I'm sure we can all figure it out in our own cases. Not only is it a manipulation to not be ever accountable, responsible or even conscious of the things he has done, continued to do or perpetrated against me but at the same time it is keeping me as his objects so that he can continue to be 'fed' in some way. He has me there on the display shelf so to speak and can reap the rewards to getting what he needs at what ever point he is feeling really empty. By doing so he is continuing to keep me still hostage and a prisoner like he did in our relationship because I will continue falling for the same things I fell when we were together. He was controlling everything while I was quietly twisted up until I couldn't tell what was what anymore. He knows how to manipulate me and how to use me, he can play me like a violin so why wouldn't he want to keep me on that lovely shelf of his so that when he is bored with his latest exploits he can return for the next 'hit' that will give him his "FIX" making him "FEEL" at my expense. And even though we will just be best friends and oh so close as family I will see him destroying me in the same ways and I will have to go through disengaging and the loss all over again because the end will just be prolonged only I will be far more damaged and far more hurt. And he will stay the same. I however, will be bleeding to death and for what? For NOTHING.  

It isn't about being genuine best friends or having a genuine sense of having a bond that feels like family. It has no bearing in truth because he was never truly able to be that to me. How do I know that? Because of how he treated me in the relationship. Because of how he abused me over and over and over again. If he were genuinely my best friend and family that would have gutted him and it simply wouldn't not have been the central theme of our lives like it was.

So can I be his one and only dearest and closest best friend in the whole wide world with a connection that is more like family while he recklessly goes out into the world and exploits himself and other women? Would I be doing myself any favors by hanging on to what I dearly wanted to believe that at the very least we were best friends in the world and only had each other? Would my best friend ever do the things that he did to me? Can't I be content in at least having him in any way I am able to?

What exactly am I hanging onto here with this dream?

That is just it... .   it is my 'dream', my fantasy of what I wanted to believe but never was. What have I concluded in truth here? That I have to say good-bye forever because the only thing that is left are lies, distortions, toxicity and nothing but betrayed pain. There is Nothing Left in the end of it all... .   and I'm not even sure if there ever was because that too was that 'dream'. Illusions are mighty powerful because they are everything we want to believe with all our hearts. Ultimately it all boils down to a dream that simply never was on his part and in mine only in different ways. If we could really be friends then he would never have abused me like he did and we would have been able to have closure coming to a mutual understanding of the forces involved within the dynamic of our relationship that poised difficulties and dead ends. This could never happen because we could never discuss anything if it meant him taking responsibility. Every problem was directed at me and his response always was to punish me without ceasing, then be gentle and good to me only to follow that up with another onslaught attack in his rage and so on and so forth.

I thought long and hard and that is what I have concluded... .   in truth there is Nothing There and what is there is laden with pain, lies, deceit, distortions, manipulations, and usury. All the things that victims are made of. Do I think it would be any different if we "we best friends" and tried to maintain such a thing? Not a chance... .   it probably would even be worse in yet another strange and unknown way that I would have to find myself getting over and healing from.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one Goldylamont and Hurt llama. This sharing is really helping me big time.

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« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2013, 07:00:09 PM »

Well, I think I posted the realization that (in my case which is less extreme than yours unfortunately Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)) that I would have a better chance of being in a relationship with my ex than being her friend.

Your ex is extreme and what he says is so convoluted, complicated and delusional, I can't imagine you having any relationship with him ever again once you continue as you are of course.

For my own situation, my ex gets smaller and smaller each time I see her or think about her... .   the power is waning... . And of course she wants me to be her "Special Lifelong Friend"... .   why not? But while I know when this spilt sticks (and it will) that she will be like a couple of other ex's I have... . I NEVER see them. Ever. We stay in touch, checking in once and awhile but it's not more than that. In my example, it's just the way I am and ultimately she will just blend into my past. This constant contact that mostly I initiate is more of a problem than even  seeing her once in awhile... . It's a never ending connection and it's kept me content in a weird world that I am tired of living in. I blame this on myself btw.

I have trouble reading what your ex writes... . To me it reads like babble... .   ranting and emoting like a child... . All it does for me is to see that he is highly manipulative and I do see some of the similarities between what he says and what my ex says. It is actually a bit chilling to read what he says about family... .   It's her new mantra to me... . and I am not comfortable with it at all. It puts me on high alert. To me being considered family in their warped minds and specifically in my ex's mind means she is free to have her relationship(s) and expects me to maintain this family 'loyalty". Sounds like a great deal for her!

I see the complexity in your ex relationship... .   in that he is vulnerable, he does show he is weak and a mess. WIth mine... .   NEVER... .   zero... .   No weakness, little compassion and this weird detached way of just stating the same things over and over and over... .   "You are so romantic. How would I ever find another man like you?"

I don't know who posted or where but someone posted a letter from an ex (female) that gave me chills as my ex could have written it... . In fact, she left a message on my voicemail (very rare) in which she went on to tell me what a 'wonderful man I am'. She means it 100%. So what.


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« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2013, 08:21:55 AM »

/quote]

In honesty, his 'truth' always felt like a brutal attack and just plain mean. He had zero consciousness of people's feelings, which is what Hurt llama was saying how often they lack empathy or remorse. For my ex he didn't care that he was destroying you with 'his version' of truth, he didn't care that he was cutting you into pieces. The more cruel he could explain his 'Truth' the better he felt. It was all anger and hatred coming out of him when that happened.

Holy Smokes Crying Wings,  I think you and I were in the "same" relationship.  With my ex, if she felt it, it was "true" and if I didn't accept how it was expressed it was because I didn't understand her at all.  Her explaining her feelings almost always ended up in a vicious attack.  Leaving me dazed and confused wondering what the heck did I do wrong?
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« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2013, 09:20:18 AM »

Her explaining her feelings almost always ended up in a vicious attack.  Leaving me dazed and confused wondering what the heck did I do wrong?

Exactly babyducks, at first your dazed and confused. I remember not knowing what the heck just happened like as though something went bashing on my head from the sky. This shocked feeling continued because I continued to be left in shock each and every time. My brain scrambling to try and figure out what, when, who, where as though everything that kept happening never made any real sense besides the fact that somehow it was all my fault. I remember even the smallest of things were made into mountainous issues that seemed to have also included everything but the kitchen sink.

I don't think the 'shocked' feeling ever went away because almost every heated interaction was so heavy with convoluted distortions and his feelings seemed to be always so hyper-acute-senstive that I likened it to an albino not having any pigment to protect them from the sun therefore exposure to it is unbearable. That was what feelings were to him and that was why it was near impossible for my ex to have consistency or a rational balance.

It reminds of me of those people who are born with such sensitivity to light and noises that being exposed to both is agony to them and they have to stay in a very quiet and dark room until the episode passes. The hypersensitivity to light causes their eyes and brain a searing pain that is intolerable and noises hurt them and cause terrible migraines. My exes 'feelings' were like that from what I could perceive that is why the tiniest of things was always exaggerated to mean tons of other bad things that he connected to everything else.

Hurt llama's distortion field is well put because that is exactly what it is.
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« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2013, 05:10:42 PM »

Well, had a really good night out last night... .   I had to drag myself out of the house, when out to eat by myself and had a few drinks... . I started worrying that I might text my ex but that is less and less 'gratifying' in fact even though it's only two days... .   contact with her (we had a couple of short texts and emails following up on some things), leaves me feeling very uneasy and uncomfortable.

Met up with a really cool and very pretty new friend and neighbor... . it was her birthday and she was really dolled up and looked amazing... . she called me at the exact time as I got into the lobby of my building and off we went... . We were both happily intoxicated from being out on our own... .   and we had some laughs and an awesome time together... . we are going out tomorrow night and she's bringing another one of her girlfriends... .   this is damn fun... .   very happy about this.

My ex  texted me the job that she went on two interviews for that they won't have an answer for two more weeks but it looks very promising.

I used a few of her own words and copied and sent them back to her as my response... .   which was perfect.

In the past, I have always been there to lend her money... .   without much said, she would ask I would send... .   She just asked me a few days ago for another $500 for some bills and I sent it.

As i've posted in the past, I know she will pay me back but of course wish i didn't have this connection whatsoever... .   but I am not walking away from an amount equal to a high months of my own expenses.

The reason I am posting this here, is that I am starting to prepare and be ready if she asks me again... .   as she's broke... .   She might not ask me but she might... .

And here's what I think... .   At this point I think it's time to pull that plug... . not because of the money but to make it all more 'real'.

I am preparing what I will say and something like this is what I think I will (fewer words the better as I am learning)... . "I don't feel comfortable lending you any more money.It's of course not an issue of trust. I'm sorry"

How does that sound to you guys? I think about her all day but none of the thoughts are really good. I imagine her and I don't like what I imagine or see. I have always posted that I figure I will see her yet again... .   if she comes here for that job... .   and I wonder if i will be able to or if she will reach out to me. I think I have underestimated her pull towards me, even though she says it... . it's usually me pursuing her even if I dumped her... .   I just know... .   completely know that if I do see her again, she either has started with another man or will soon and it would make the most sense for it to be with the ex who she saw for business last time... .   The guy who she wanted to clarify that when I asked if she would be with again, said something like "Nothing is impossible". No it's not impossible baby, it's practically pre ordained.

The thing I am realizing more and more is that she never really yields a position or softens up. She's different than most of the BPD partners I read about here... . I'm not saying anything good really about her just really taking notice that she never really offers up any excuse or anything for her behaviour... . IN her mind, usually everything she does makes perfect sense and it's all normal for the most part... .   and it's ME who has the problem.

Times are a changin'
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« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2013, 08:43:50 PM »

I dont think I have maintained any real distance from her since before we met 6 years ago.

It was ALWAYS me off balance and reaching for her... .   Makes no sense as I am a very strong man. Or I was.

And obviously, as I back off in contact, she will reach towards me. It's human nature. I don't want to be cruel and I am a writer and tend to always 'explain' or communicate to her and it's of course in one ear and out the other... .

This is the email I responded to her text. I intentionally did not text it and emailed it instead.

It's a much edited version of the first one that had to many references to specifics that wouldn't help me in writing again.

This final version is better but still a bit to involved and angry but I am human and it's sent.

Thank you all for your words... .   This forum has been an important part of the process of sorting out what was really going on since before day one.

====

There was/is something that was missing for me  and I turned myself inside out and upside down to try to find a 'way' to make it work because I saw something in you and thought an investment past all the kicking and bull~ was worth it.

I learned that there was nothing I could do that would ever give me what I think anyone needs in a healthy relationship. Safety and a sensitivity... . We all can be wrong as I said when we first met. I experience you as almost never really admitting or seeing anything you ever did as 'wrong' and if you did, it would change based on how you might be feeling at the present…I didn't feel stable. I didn't feel safe. In stead I was made to believe I was 'controlling' or unstable or just crazy…No, that's not me.

You will always occupy a special place in my heart. But I am sorry, I can't be in your life anymore as an active "Special Friend' or "Family". I will always be sensitive, and have all sorts of feelings connected to you and other men, that you discuss as it's completely normal and not a problem... . And I accept that for you, maybe it is. But for me, it's not something I ever even vaguely felt with any other woman ever and it was the reason or one of the prime reasons I ended it, last January and a few times before that and after, I saw that we just never will see eye to eye and that you don't offer any real comfort of safety for me, although you clearly do love me very much. I was never about 'telling' you what to do or not, all I wanted and I know I said it endlessly was a CONSISTENT feeling of sensitivity and understanding. I offered that to you. As I was very aware even the night before our last, in actually asking you if it was ok to be texting a female friend while we were together. I wanted the same that I offered

The sanctity of what I thought was so special for us, was shattered and that no matter what you said about me being so 'great' or 'special' or 'romantic', etc., to me just don't hold the same 'water' as when I believed I was the one. And yet I think you did and do believe everything you ever did say about how you loved me, appreciated me, enjoyed me and more. I know you did. But, actions speak louder than words and I'm sure it's nothing 'personal' that you weren't able to act in certain ways that I needed.

I do see you as a beautiful proud stallion, who loves me but kicked me and bit me more times than I want to remember.

As I have said more than a few times, in spite of all of this my life is fuller, better and richer having had you in it.





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« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2013, 11:02:09 PM »

she replied... .   vague as usual... .  

I understand only too well.  I really would appreciate the horse print when you can send it. It means a lot to me.

It's looking more and more likely that I will get the job with x. I'll pay you back the loan ASAP.

Thank you again.
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« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2013, 07:43:00 AM »

Hurt llama i wanted to say that everything i'm saying here, to you or anybody else, i'm really also saying this to myself. each of our situations are different and i want you to know that i recognize that.

the only reason any of this hurts so much is because these people were truly amazing in many ways in our lives. i never mean to discredit this. what i am working towards is redirecting my energies toward finding those same amazing qualities elsewhere.

and, dammit, we should hurt. this is what good people do 
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« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2013, 07:49:42 AM »

about the money--i feel you. i would have never lent any money to my ex if i didn't feel she deserved it. she was never the gold-digger type, quite the opposite. could turn any cheap throw away item shine into art with her crafts. my biggest fear with the money was that i'd find out that she took some expensive vacation with some new bf of hers on my dime... .   which never happened, i feel very lucky regarding this. i just went through so much i didn't need to hear about anything else that would devalue our past r/s, so, i feel lucky in this regard. and, as i was saying before, i want to remove money from the conversation altogether, if she feels the need to contact me then just do it b/c you wanted to, don't use the money you owe as an excuse (which surprisingly is forgotten whenever she's in full passionate love with her next victim)... .  
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