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Author Topic: I am very vulnerable and did not answer  (Read 2642 times)
Numbers
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« on: April 26, 2013, 02:11:05 PM »

Short summary: 2 years of on-off and recycles. Invested my heart, body and soul only to be repeatedy told it was not enough and never would be. In a lucky moment during one of her rages I broke off. It was 4 months NC until an hour ago. Undiagnosed BPD but at the very least strong BPD traits.

A few hours ago she phoned once. I immediately realised I am very vulnerable and did not answer. But I knew she would call again (extinction burst). She called again, I did not see the call. I phoned back to save myself from hours of calls (happened before). She just wanted to hear my voice. I evaded, said it is not convenient and asked her to talk tomorrow. I was too weak to tell her not to call at all. Ever.

Help with advice, please. How I feel is that I miss her, but I still associate her with happy relationship (irrational). When I wrestle control, I know I wish for a relationship but not with her. I am very aware my life is leaps and bounds better now I do not have her destructive influence to hamstring me but I am so very very lonely and vulnerable to attention. I have just begun to rebuild my life and I know new people will enter it, it is just that I am at that unfortunate sad stage where it is easier to go back instead of going forward.

Aaaaargh even this call is such an evil boundary busting. I so hate this disorder. Who in their right mind would decline a "great" girl chasing after us. I hate this mess.

Please God let me stay strong.
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 02:36:39 PM »

Write down the deal-breakers and face the fact that these things are not going to go away!

Once I realized there was no chance at a happy future, it made it easier to fully detach. 

Call some old friends or family members you like and make plans for this weekend, stay busy!

good luck

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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 03:08:11 PM »

Short summary: 2 years of on-off and recycles. Invested my heart, body and soul only to be repeatedy told it was not enough and never would be. In a lucky moment during one of her rages I broke off. It was 4 months NC until an hour ago. Undiagnosed BPD but at the very least strong BPD traits.

A few hours ago she phoned once. I immediately realised I am very vulnerable and did not answer. But I knew she would call again (extinction burst). She called again, I did not see the call. I phoned back to save myself from hours of calls (happened before). She just wanted to hear my voice. I evaded, said it is not convenient and asked her to talk tomorrow. I was too weak to tell her not to call at all. Ever.

Help with advice, please. How I feel is that I miss her, but I still associate her with happy relationship (irrational). When I wrestle control, I know I wish for a relationship but not with her. I am very aware my life is leaps and bounds better now I do not have her destructive influence to hamstring me but I am so very very lonely and vulnerable to attention. I have just begun to rebuild my life and I know new people will enter it, it is just that I am at that unfortunate sad stage where it is easier to go back instead of going forward.

Aaaaargh even this call is such an evil boundary busting. I so hate this disorder. Who in their right mind would decline a "great" girl chasing after us. I hate this mess.

Please God let me stay strong.

I just started LC and hopefully I am strong enough to maintain it till I get stronger. My ex is better at disappearing and cutting people off much more than I am.

But I have never been the one to initiate and now it seems to be a bit of a power struggle to see who will break first. I like to frame it out that way. It helps me to imagine that's how it is. I have no idea really. My hunch is she will reach out for me again. I'm fairly certain of it and I am learning that this never ending push pull in which i was probably more guilty of than her, has served it's purpose in prolonging the pain or more accurately in helping me avoid the real issues that the pain covered up. Maybe the pain was the purpose?

You have FOUR months under your belt. I have 4-5 DAYS... . You have done really well. Be proud.

WHat I imagine I will do when my time comes is that I will slip one more time... .  I say that to give myself maybe an imagined freedom but in reality I will think of the cost of reconnecting and why I dumped her yet again. I didn't do it randomly and I am sure you didn't either.

Imagine why you ended in the first place. Yes, most of us have this beautiful love story of true soulmates. I have pictures to prove it Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

But if you do weaken and you do reconnect what will it cost you? Has she done anything to make you think things will be different? or are you willing to reunite and things be the same?


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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 04:35:38 PM »

if i were placed in the same shoes as you, i would make sure that i operated slowly, not jumping into anything, like my ex might.  there is no need for immediate meetups or anything like that, and no need for conversations remembering the past or anything like that.

i'm approaching 3 months NC, and she did reach out a feeler for me a couple weeks ago, and i remained distant even though i was probably hoping to hear her beg for another chance which i would have given her with enough conditions perhaps... .  

anyway what i did differently from all the other contacts after not hearing from her for weeks or months, is i just acted myself and the result of how i developed myself after over 2 months of working on myself and understanding the relationship... .  that ended up with me being distant, not desperate and not rushing into anything and that made me feel comfortable... .  i sunk back into a depression of sorts afterwards, but got through it with the help of these boards and just continuing to be productive for myself.

i'm really glad you came here for insights before you responded to her

only you know how to respond, but just keep in mind how you want to be treated, what you want in life, what you dont want and how any of your ex's negativity might affect her short/long-term mental and physical health, as well as any affects on your professional life and friend/family life... .  i think its important to consider all this while being realistic and not living in the fantasy world type thinking we may have become accustomed to as a result of their fleas, and also not thinking she is something that she isn't and allowing that to make your decision... .  use facts and reality and actions to help you.

there is no need to rush into anything. there's a sinatra song i like called nice 'n easy, that kinda sums it up... .  
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 06:10:23 PM »

4815162342, right now your emotional mind and your rational mind are at odds. Rationally you know you need to move forward however your heart has not caught up - you hold out hope that she will see the light someday and you would like to be there when she does.

My friend, if she is BPD its unfortunate that we really need to accept the reality of BPD - that you will not be able to show her the light/make her better or make her into the person you want her to be for you.

Its a matter of either accepting her for who she shows you to be or and maintain contact or move forward with family and friends for support. Its very tempting to twist our perception on who our partners are to suit what we believe we need to be happy.

Be kind to you

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Numbers
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 05:35:49 PM »

Epilogue.

I am sharing in hope we can all learn.

Long story short, I did not even get an opportunity to exercise my integrity and some of great suggestions given here. She woke me up at 4AM and it took just a few messages for her to get into my appartment. This turned into a 24/7 weekend sex session. Now we are again NC for a day, but I suspect she is just lurking.

How do I feel: guilty, uneasy, anxious. I definitely did not fall back in love. During entire weekend I was acutely aware that I do not love her, just care about her a lot. In that sense, I feel guilty because in my book, I have used her. I am anxious because I know there will be a follow-up. I am uneasy because I failed my goals.

Why did I succumb: I was extremely lonely. Despite surrounding myself with people, lost weight, getting a suntan, enjoying genuine attention from opposite sex again. Despite putting time and distance, emerging from depression and having stopped ruminating. I still was lonely and when opportunity presented to enjoy that same touch, smell, warmth I just went for it. I did something wrong while detaching.

And about her? Well... .  

She is absolutely same as she was months ago. Nothing changed. Attitude, belief system, thought patterns, values, self-image - all the same.

She sees failure of our relationship as (my interpretation) unfortunate interaction of my core emotional deficiencies and her uniqueness.

She apologized. And immediately followed by hopes that she could once hear my apology. When asked what exactly she apologizes for, she could not say. Still wanted mine, though.

Her boundary busting reengagement attempt is seen as immense quality - she is not invading, she is building a new opportunity.

She is very inconsistent about time spent apart. It is very easy to spot opposite statements. e.g. "I am very lonely" <-> "I am surrounded by a bunch of beautiful people"; "I am not going out at all" <-> "I was here and here and there and oh yes there too". She did reshuffle some of her acquaintances, from former idealisation do devaluation now.

She took great effort to paint herself as a victim. She works too much. She again clashed with her father. Her sister is again doing better. She got betrayed by close friends. Her health is suffering. She is a victim to depression/sadeness/PTSD.

Lesson learned: no change without therapy. Sorry, I do not believe it is at all possible.

Luckily, I told her and I mean it - "There is no way we are going back to months ago and continue as if nothing happened. We will see what happens down the road, that is my only promise". I fully expect a total assault against that position, but all quiet for now.

Another "told you so" story, I am afraid, 
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seeking balance
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 05:43:47 PM »

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

Print this out - keep it with you and read and reread.

Loneliness is the most common cause for reingaging - we all get lonely, it is human nature.  By learning to push past this fear, you will gain a calm, strength and personal respect you have no idea right now is missing.

Be kind to yourself, but challenge yourself to do it different next time.
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Numbers
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 05:50:38 PM »

I know the 10 beliefs by heart.

What happened here is beyond these beliefs. It was not about her or any illusion I might have attached to her. It was about me and incredibly unfortunate moment. I was very lonely. There was a carrot offered. I honestly did not believe any of the false beliefs - she definitely did not see the light, I know love will not prevail etc etc.

And I still fell. I was lonely, she made herself available. The pain of loneliness was greater then risk of repeated hurt. Decision to let her come was second nature, I did not spend a milisecond considering.

Guess I will seek some resources on handling loneliness. Hopefully no greater damage was done.
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 05:56:36 PM »

The entire workshop might be of interest to you:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161524.0

Here is a segment from member 2010... .  

"In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone.  This is one type of bonding seen in this community."

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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 06:05:24 PM »

That post by 2010 I have literally read to my gf, substituting "BPD" with her name on the fly.

1) She did not find anything suspicious or worth further examination

2) she was thrilled that someone is investing so much research into her, but tomorrow morning I think she did not remember a word of it

Bottom line is - lessons learned, I need much more serious work on myself.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to reengage and suffer 10+ years hell followed by painful divorce/legal issues.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to reengage and be required to carry a manual on how to communicate with my gf.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to reengage out of false belief I will never find another.

I envy you guys in the US, there is no restraint order per se in my little country.
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Hurt llama
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 06:21:23 PM »

Lesson learned: no change without therapy. Sorry, I do not believe it is at all possible.

you are getting the advice you need here and you've done a good job and slipped back... . I have factored in a 'slip' but really hope to not. Maybe factoring it in made it easier to finally go NC for first time in 6 years. It's brutal as we all know. All sorts of stuff going through my head... .  seeing how my brain is acclimated to remembering the good, the great even the stimulation of pain and in the absence of contact, I'm left facing the void that may have been there before her but maybe it wasn't as bad before either.

Coming off a BPD relationship reminds me of Suddenly stopping SSRI medication... .  is that heightened anxiety and jumping out of your skin the way you were before SSRI or are you experiencing withdrawal symptoms on top of whatever original anxiety or issues you have?

This is an important question to me and i don't hear it spoken about often.

Who we are during the withdrawal process in my opinion is not necessarily who we are. I think our contact with BPD, even if our own issues were in play (and of course they were) leaves us vulnerable to 'catch' some of their mental illness.

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Hurt llama
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 06:25:01 PM »

That post by 2010 I have literally read to my gf, substituting "BPD" with her name on the fly.

1) She did not find anything suspicious or worth further examination

2) she was thrilled that someone is investing so much research into her, but tomorrow morning I think she did not remember a word of it

Bottom line is - lessons learned, I need much more serious work on myself.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to reengage and suffer 10+ years hell followed by painful divorce/legal issues.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to reengage and be required to carry a manual on how to communicate with my gf.

I DEFINITELY DO NOT want to reengage out of false belief I will never find another.

I envy you guys in the US, there is no restraint order per se in my little country.

You read here 2010's post? Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I want to send my ex that post and others but it's more than a bad idea as any contact is not going to help in my case.

Restraining order? That's a joke, right?
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seeking balance
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 06:29:44 PM »

That post by 2010 I have literally read to my gf, substituting "BPD" with her name on the fly.

Well, what are you going to do about YOUR loneliness and YOUR choices in how to work through this? 

Lesson learned: no change without therapy. Sorry, I do not believe it is at all possible.

This applies to you, right?
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 06:35:27 PM »

She sees failure of our relationship as (my interpretation) unfortunate interaction of my core emotional deficiencies and her uniqueness.

So you've got the deficiencies while she's just unique; more devaluing.  Mine did the same thing, and when it's delivered with a smooth, comfortable tone, it sounds like she's trying to help, when she's attacking us again, on her way to domination.

You used the word 'lonely' a lot of times in your posts, clearly a strong trigger for you.  How about not using that word anymore, pick another one?  And realizing being lonely and being alone are two different things.  In any case, it's time to make you strong, you need it right now, and focusing on getting rid of lonely at all costs might be the most important thing you can do right now.  Good luck, we're here.
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 10:53:40 AM »

Excerpt
Lesson learned: no change without therapy. Sorry, I do not believe it is at all possible.

Sounds exactly how my 'dating' went with my exBPD when I moved out the first time.  Only problem is therapy did not help and she did not change one bit.

Even if she goes for intense therapy it could take years to get to a point where the relationship is bearable.

Second and final time I left I also 'dated' her but this time I knew there was no chance to ever be together, it went a little better and eventually she found a new victim and I moved on as well.

Excerpt
Luckily, I told her and I mean it - "There is no way we are going back to months ago and continue as if nothing happened. We will see what happens down the road, that is my only promise". I fully expect a total assault against that position, but all quiet for now.

The door is open for a recycle and that is probably all she wants right now, I would guess she is working on the next one and if she fails she will try and come back to you for more.
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 12:49:36 PM »

I don't know if this will be of much value, but it is what came to mind as I read.

After my breakup almost 4 months ago, I found a codependency workshop for myself as well as stepped up my own counseling. In the workshop I heard something I had never heard before or thought of but I believe it is very true.

Our boundaries are not intended to stop anyone else from behaving any particular way or acting out against us; they can't. Our boundary is about what we will do when they do that.

For myself then, it is a matter of deciding in advance, what will I do if the boundary is crossed, and then doing it. Easy to say, I know.

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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2013, 06:37:29 PM »

[/quote]
author=Clearmind link=topic=199959.msg12244988#msg12244988 date=1367017823

4815162342, right now your emotional mind and your rational mind are at odds. Rationally you know you need to move forward however your heart has not caught up - you hold out hope that she will see the light someday and you would like to be there when she does.

My friend, if she is BPD its unfortunate that we really need to accept the reality of BPD - that you will not be able to show her the light/make her better or make her into the person you want her to be for you.

Its a matter of either accepting her for who she shows you to be or and maintain contact or move forward with family and friends for support. Its very tempting to twist our perception on who our partners are to suit what we believe we need to be happy.

Be kind to you]



I am 7 mos no contact.  Best advice to date.  

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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2013, 07:10:48 PM »

The "urgency" in your post is unsettling.

I realize that your sex-fest happened after your original post, but still... .  why the "I have very little time" comment?

YOU are in control on your life here and if you need more time... .  you get it.  That's YOUR choice and YOUR right.  If something is so critical about this relationship that it needs to be decided IMMEDIATELY, then there's not much to decide.

I envy you guys in the US, there is no restraint order per se in my little country.

RO's are a great thing. However... .  YOU are still in control of your own life and you can issue your own restraining order for yourself. YOU have the power to do this, but it's up to you.  A restraining order, issued by the authorities, is only good if the guidelines are followed by the person who applied for it.  Same is true for you!

turtle

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